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| AJollyLife | ugh. my blood sugar is really high this morning, 112 :(. no idea why either | 07:42 |
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| LilxHK | some fructose intake? | 08:06 |
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| kanzure | http://kaggle.com/blog/2010/06/17/%EF%BB%BFwhat-has-bioinformatics-ever-done-for-us | 08:18 |
| kanzure | http://www.sciencecentric.com/news/10061750-citizen-science-birders-contribute-valuable-data-on-invasive-plant-species.html | 08:20 |
| kanzure | http://johnohab.com/2010/06/17/washington-state-of-the-science/ | 08:20 |
| kanzure | http://www.boingboing.net/2010/06/17/pescos-talk-from-ted.html | 08:20 |
| kanzure | http://olyopen.wordpress.com/2010/06/17/plastics-summit-draws-a-crowd/ | 08:20 |
| kanzure | stalk: Maureen McConnell | 08:21 |
| kanzure | http://raptureofthedeep.org/index.php/2010/06/17/citizen-scientist/ | 08:21 |
| kanzure | pacific biosciences getting funding: http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/gen-probe-makes-50-million-strategic-investment-in-third-generation-sequencing-company-pacific-biosciences-96591544.html | 08:23 |
| kanzure | heh: http://celebritydiagnosis.com/ "presents famous patients as medical lessons" | 08:25 |
| kanzure | oh, ozzy | 08:25 |
| kanzure | https://www.dtmi.duke.edu/news-publications/updates/the-path-to-personalized-medicine-nejm-perspective | 08:25 |
| kanzure | podcast on personalized medicine: http://castroller.com/podcasts/MelbourneUniversityUp2/1694522-Episode%2095%20Personalized%20Medicine%20Treatments%20Tailored%20to%20Your%20Unique%20Genetic%20Profile | 08:25 |
| kanzure | http://www.prx.org/pieces/47636-the-era-of-personalized-medicine | 08:26 |
| kanzure | 23andme hitting fox news: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,594830,00.html | 08:26 |
| kanzure | say, when did navigenics show up on the scene? as far as i know, 23andme and decodeme are the main bosses | 08:27 |
| kanzure | re: what has bioinformatics ever done for us: | 08:28 |
| kanzure | 10:28 < kanzure> Oort: awf-edwards | 08:28 |
| kanzure | 10:28 < Oort> Modern practitioners have too much data and are engaged in a theory-free reduction of it under the neologism 'bioinformatics'. | 08:28 |
| kanzure | Global and local fMRI signals driven by neurons defined optogenetically by type and wiring http://designfiles.org/papers/neuro/Global%20and%20local%20fMRI%20signals%20driven%20by%20neurons%20defined%20optogenetically%20by%20type%20and%20wiring.pdf | 08:33 |
| kanzure | jason bobe and woodrow wilson center are going to be doing some "biosafety" stuff.. not sure what though | 08:49 |
| kanzure | hey what was that dopamine-based fMRI reporter that mikhail shapiro at hplus summit was talking about? | 08:50 |
| kanzure | Directed evolution of a magnetic resonance imaging contrast agent for noninvasive imaging of dopamine | 08:50 |
| kanzure | http://designfiles.org/papers/neuro/Directed%20evolution%20of%20a%20magnetic%20resonance%20imaging%20contrast%20agent%20for%20noninvasive%20imaging%20of%20dopamine.pdf | 08:51 |
| kanzure | http://scienceblogs.com/neurotopia/2010/06/what_does_that_mri_signal_mean.php | 08:53 |
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| eridu | Next Big Future's RSS subscribers doubled to 12,000 in the last year | 09:06 |
| eridu | at this rate, all of the US will be subscribe to Next Big Future by 2023 | 09:07 |
| eridu | and the entire world by about 2030 | 09:08 |
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| AJollyLife | random thought of the day, should deathrow inmates be allowed to sign up for cryonics? | 09:31 |
| uniqanomaly | if they accept redesign of their mind routines which led to violence ;) | 09:34 |
| uniqanomaly | after ressurection | 09:35 |
| uniqanomaly | resurrection* | 09:35 |
| uniqanomaly | accept redesign before cryo, redesign when technology will be available, and then resurrection, obviously | 09:37 |
| AJollyLife | works for me. i also wonder if life insurance pays out in case of the state executing you | 09:38 |
| uniqanomaly | lol, nice question | 09:39 |
| AJollyLife | i guess you would have to keep up with paying the premiums | 09:39 |
| uniqanomaly | ;) | 09:40 |
| AJollyLife | im going to have to ask my insurance agent this....although he might look at me funny | 09:40 |
| uniqanomaly | yeah, definitely | 09:40 |
| AJollyLife | i know it pays out in the case of sucide | 09:40 |
| kive | I think that depends on the policy -- some have anti-suicide clauses, iirc | 09:46 |
| kive | interesting question, though | 09:46 |
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| kanzure | cool there's an entire article now: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microfluidic_Sanger_sequencing | 09:53 |
| AJollyLife | kive: i know mine doesn't, i checked before I signed up :) | 09:54 |
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| AJollyLife | i belive most companines anti-sucide clauses are for 2 years from the start of the policy | 09:54 |
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| kanzure | pyrosequencing has a lot of steps involved | 10:12 |
| kanzure | but this looks a lot cleaner: http://designfiles.org/papers/Real-time%20DNA%20sequencing%20from%20single%20polymerase%20molecules.pdf | 10:12 |
| kanzure | qualitatively, i'm not sure if it's better than direct DNA sequencing via AFM: http://designfiles.org/papers/AFM-DNA-sequencing/ | 10:15 |
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| kanzure | i don't remember "- Tyson Anderson: Problem Solving: DIYbio and Real World Issues" from hplus summit 2009 | 10:41 |
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| kanzure | hi lepton | 11:17 |
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| lepton | Hey kanzure | 11:29 |
| lepton | Sorry my internet drops in and out so much :/ | 11:29 |
| kanzure | heh | 11:29 |
| lepton | I was so hopeful for the FCC spectrum auction landing some decent open wireless a few years back | 11:30 |
| lepton | Would be been awesome now... | 11:30 |
| lepton | oh well | 11:30 |
| kanzure | did you read about the fcc issues re: sirius xm? | 11:30 |
| lepton | I'm still in the midst of converting our CNC over to EMC2 | 11:30 |
| lepton | Hmm, don't think I did | 11:30 |
| kanzure | http://satwaves.com/blog/2010/05/02/sirius-xm-delivers-strong-notice-to-the-fcc/ | 11:31 |
| kanzure | basically the protection of sirius xm communications went from 1 khz to 1 millihertz or something | 11:32 |
| lepton | wow | 11:32 |
| kanzure | yeah.. so they started to uh, notice that ;) | 11:32 |
| lepton | yeah! | 11:32 |
| lepton | This modern world... | 11:33 |
| kanzure | sirius hired a guy named ted rappaport to do a technical analysis and review of the situation | 11:33 |
| kanzure | http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/ecfs/document/view?id=7020442790 | 11:33 |
| kanzure | i'm going over to his house later today to show him how to use ubuntu :P | 11:33 |
| lepton | To a certain extent I'd prefer they just reform the whole wireless spectrum mangement so we can get some actual cross contiental open internet | 11:34 |
| lepton | But it seems like I'm gonna have to colonize my own planet, or something, if I ever want to see open wireless standards | 11:34 |
| lepton | ha | 11:34 |
| lepton | Do you happen to have any experience setting up Mesa PCI boards with EMC2? | 11:35 |
| kanzure | fenn: are you around? | 11:35 |
| lepton | there seems to be a lack of knowledge base with pncconf on the emc irc | 11:35 |
| kanzure | lepton: no, but i literally just bought some mesa boards | 11:35 |
| lepton | what'd you get? | 11:35 |
| fenn | no | 11:36 |
| kanzure | 5i20, 7i37TA, 3x 7i40HV | 11:36 |
| lepton | Nice | 11:36 |
| lepton | I've got a 5i23 | 11:36 |
| lepton | and a 7i47 and 7i42ta | 11:37 |
| kanzure | the 5i20 is just flat out awesome | 11:37 |
| lepton | I've gotta get this running by the end of the weekend | 11:37 |
| lepton | Have you run it, yet? | 11:38 |
| kanzure | no, not yet | 11:38 |
| kanzure | i need to get some extra connector wires and stuff from mcmaster or digikey or something | 11:38 |
| * kanzure wonders where elevenarms is | 11:38 | |
| kanzure | the arm is over at elevenarms' shop with the electronics now | 11:38 |
| kanzure | last week they tried to deliver the electronics but couldn't because i'm under 21 >_< | 11:39 |
| lepton | Oh gosh, I spent probably 20 hours dealing with stupid centronix cable connector madness this week | 11:39 |
| lepton | well, more like 10, but still | 11:39 |
| kanzure | yeah :( | 11:39 |
| kanzure | i had to find a centronix cable for the laser cutter to work | 11:39 |
| lepton | wouldn't deliver electronics because you're under 21? wtf? | 11:39 |
| lepton | a centronix 36 pin mini with ALL PINS? Most only have 34 pins connected | 11:40 |
| lepton | head-slap | 11:40 |
| lepton | I could have run with 34 pins, but I needed pin 18 for our position quadrature | 11:40 |
| kanzure | what are you wiring up to? | 11:40 |
| lepton | Vexta AS series stepper drivers | 11:41 |
| lepton | and an HSD 4kW spindle | 11:41 |
| lepton | and a bunch of 24v GPIO for e-stop, limits, etc, etc | 11:41 |
| kanzure | are you using them for anything in particular? | 11:41 |
| lepton | coolant and dust collector control, too | 11:41 |
| kanzure | let's see.. a 4kW spindle.. a few stepper drivers.. i could try to guess the end-result | 11:41 |
| lepton | It's our existing CNC router | 11:41 |
| kanzure | giant cnc machine? giant arm? cat food opener? | 11:41 |
| kanzure | ah | 11:41 |
| lepton | we're trying to get away from the horrific mess that is shopbot software | 11:42 |
| lepton | Words cannot describe how awful it is | 11:42 |
| lepton | I'm honestly very surprised they haven't had legal action taken aganist them yet | 11:42 |
| lepton | and I'm not kidding | 11:42 |
| JayDugger | Worse than mesanet.com's website? | 11:42 |
| kanzure | i haven't used a shopbot yet | 11:42 |
| kanzure | although i saw one at a maker faire here in austin | 11:42 |
| lepton | I like Ted Hall, he's a good guy, but I mean, they control the spindle THOUGH THE WINDOWS REGISTRY | 11:42 |
| kanzure | what the fuck | 11:43 |
| kanzure | you must be shitting me | 11:43 |
| lepton | They got on the MS visual studio train like 10 years ago, and have been stuck there ever since | 11:43 |
| JayDugger | I don't doubt it. Some things are just too awful to be false. | 11:43 |
| lepton | I'm not shitting you at all | 11:43 |
| lepton | The sad thing is, that's only the tip of the iceberg | 11:43 |
| lepton | so yeah, EMC2 here we come | 11:43 |
| lepton | Also, their "Closed loop control" DOESN'T EXIST AT ALL | 11:44 |
| lepton | They don't have the pins connected to their circuit boards | 11:44 |
| lepton | it is a lie | 11:44 |
| lepton | LIE | 11:44 |
| kanzure | a part of my soul just died and fell off | 11:44 |
| lepton | Sorry, I'm kinda sore on the subject rightnow | 11:44 |
| lepton | I don't like paying $25k to control a spindle though the windows registry and get a closed loop control system that doesn't exist at all | 11:45 |
| lepton | and PCBS with right angle traces and no ground pour | 11:45 |
| lepton | and an emergency stop that has to go through the windows registry | 11:45 |
| JayDugger | Really? | 11:45 |
| lepton | OH YES | 11:45 |
| kanzure | well, that's better than what i have going on with the laser cutter | 11:45 |
| kanzure | it took us a month to figure out that the on/off switch for the laser is a sham switch | 11:45 |
| JayDugger | I see your comment about legal action has good reasons. | 11:45 |
| kanzure | it does nothing | 11:45 |
| lepton | Yeah, stay the hell away from shopbot software, it's f-ing dangerous | 11:46 |
| lepton | We lost some good tooling and material to it's F-ups | 11:46 |
| JayDugger | No one hurt, I hope. | 11:46 |
| lepton | fortunately not, but if you consider that they have 1000's of systems out there... | 11:47 |
| JayDugger | Yeah, I don't like those odds. | 11:47 |
| lepton | The saddest part is they are aware of all these problems, we've spent a lot of time talking to them on the phone | 11:47 |
| lepton | but they don't have the will to move away from XP and visual studio | 11:48 |
| lepton | I think they should be shipping EMC2 systems with their control boxes, with the nice "touchy" touch screen interface, it would fit really well with most of their non-techie user base | 11:48 |
| lepton | The end user just wants an appliance, XP be damned (imo) | 11:49 |
| lepton | / end shopbot rant :p | 11:50 |
| AJollyLife | kanzure: diy electronics. its the new crack. | 11:55 |
| lepton | It's my crack, that's for sure :) | 11:55 |
| kanzure | hmm | 11:55 |
| kanzure | mac cowell just butt-dialed me | 11:55 |
| JayDugger | butt-dialed? | 11:55 |
| kanzure | but i have no idea what he's talking about or who he's with | 11:55 |
| JayDugger | Oh. | 11:55 |
| kanzure | yeah, it's where someone with an iphone or touch screen thing accidentally dials your number | 11:55 |
| lepton | I've been a DIY electronics junkie for several years now, it's just turning into less DIY and more DIWYR (do it with your robot) | 11:56 |
| kanzure | hm now there's a door bell | 11:56 |
| JayDugger | Probably the FBI...or DHS...or DOD... | 11:56 |
| JayDugger | or UPS. | 11:56 |
| kanzure | omg he's shopping for clothes :/ | 11:57 |
| kanzure | hipster clothes | 11:57 |
| kanzure | he hung up | 12:00 |
| kanzure | oh well | 12:00 |
| JayDugger | Is orange a good color for him? | 12:00 |
| kanzure | 9min 19sec | 12:00 |
| AJollyLife | I'm partial to orange ;) | 12:02 |
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| kanzure | http://www.tokyohackerspace.org/ja/event/taking-back-our-world-the-makehackerspacecreativity-movement-2010-06-15 | 12:03 |
| kanzure | http://futuresource.trackandmonitormedia.com/?p=59716 "Robots and Dinosaurs - A Hackerspace, mini documentary" | 12:04 |
| kanzure | "I2R BCI Team Receives the Top Prize at International Annual BCI" | 12:05 |
| kanzure | hm there's a "techshop magazine" ? | 12:05 |
| kanzure | fablab+"green" crap: http://www.choicevacuums.com/living-green-blog-posts/digital-design-goes-solar-with-fablab-at-solar-decathlon-europe/ | 12:06 |
| kanzure | 2 week mechanical engineering course offering for kenyans: http://fellowsblog.kiva.org/2010/06/17/exciting-technology-helping-borrowers-changing-east-africa/ | 12:06 |
| kanzure | fablabs at ISTE 2010: http://www.willykjellstrom.com/digital-fabrication-at-iste-2010/ | 12:07 |
| kanzure | a website for teachers to integrate digital fabrication / fablab stuff into coursework: http://www.digitalfabrication.org/ | 12:08 |
| kanzure | fenn: have you talked with halycon molecular yet? | 12:10 |
| kanzure | cool. i was right :) halycon is doing SEM-based whole genome sequencing | 12:13 |
| kanzure | http://www.wipo.int/pctdb/en/wo.jsp?WO=2009046445 | 12:13 |
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| kanzure | claims: http://www.wipo.int/pctdb/en/wo.jsp?WO=2009046445&IA=US2008078986&DISPLAY=CLAIMS | 12:14 |
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| kanzure | halycon internship opening: http://sfbay.craigslist.org/pen/sci/1785881449.html (although they have other openings) | 12:15 |
| kanzure | hahah you have to have a BS in biology just to run gels? wtf | 12:15 |
| kanzure | http://www.genomeweb.com/sequencing/halcyon-molecular-develops-threading-method-sequence-dna-transmission-em | 12:15 |
| JayDugger | Three years ago Google wanted a Masters to run a scanner for Google Books. | 12:16 |
| kanzure | "individual molecule placement rapid nanotransfer" | 12:17 |
| kanzure | "They are also looking for new methods to speed up the scanning process. It currently takes several hours to get up to 50 images, which cover more than a micrometer of DNA, equivalent to more than 2,000 bases." | 12:17 |
| kanzure | hahah martin bogomolni is having AHS assemble his makerbot for him.. gah | 12:22 |
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| kanzure | what was the name of the services/engineering company that specialized in total documentation and moving of a factory? something about matrix.. matrices.. | 12:27 |
| kanzure | 14:29 < _abc_> kanzure: The Red Army took several factories from 'liberated' Eastern Europe back to Russia | 12:30 |
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| lepton | just got off the phone with Peter at Mesanet, nice guy | 12:31 |
| lepton | I see you're posting in EMC, kanzure | 12:31 |
| kanzure | http://matrixti.com/ maybe.. i don't this was it | 12:36 |
| kanzure | *i don't think | 12:36 |
| drazak | my college summer courses start the monday after my hs graduation :S | 12:42 |
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| fenn | why would i care about halcyon molecular? | 12:50 |
| drazak | don't they make some really good shit? or is that someone else | 12:50 |
| fenn | first of all, i don't get what they're doing that makes it "third gen sequencing" or whatever | 12:50 |
| fenn | second, faster and faster sequencing is not really a bottleneck right now | 12:51 |
| fenn | i mean, having my own genome would be nice, but it's not going to save the world | 12:52 |
| drazak | I like the long read length | 12:52 |
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| fenn | there was a tedxSoMa? wtf | 13:02 |
| AJollyLife | fenn: so what would save the world? | 13:03 |
| fenn | "should deathrow inmates be allowed to sign up for cryonics?" only if we provide free cryonics for action hero cops, as seen in "demolition man" | 13:03 |
| fenn | AJollyLife: you know, the usual, AI, nanotech, intelligence enhancement, space colonies | 13:06 |
| lepton | :) | 13:07 |
| lepton | I'm with fenn | 13:07 |
| lepton | as far as that^ list goes | 13:07 |
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| fenn | "DIWYR" ah yes, add "fembots" to the list | 13:10 |
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| kanzure | fenn: halcyon molecular got money from founder's fund and has a lot of social networking inertia | 13:15 |
| kanzure | their actual tech doesn't seem particularly brilliant to me | 13:15 |
| kanzure | and why they cover everything in secrecy is just beyond me.. | 13:15 |
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| fenn | "First replicating creature spawned in Conway's Game of Life" http://bit.ly/99B8CZ (discovered may 18 2010) | 14:38 |
| fenn | i wonder why there are no pictures of it | 14:41 |
| fenn | i wish there were more things like this http://zedomax.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/retractable_extension_cord.jpg | 14:55 |
| fenn | all right, here's the game of life replicator video http://brightcove.newscientist.com/services/player/bcpid1873822884?bctid=96495265001 | 15:01 |
| fenn | blegh | 15:03 |
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| faceface_ | hi | 15:15 |
| faceface_ | what is the healthcare saving that could be brought about by free genetic testing? | 15:16 |
| faceface_ | looking for some estimates | 15:16 |
| faceface_ | i.e. targeted screening programs could save cash, but I don't know how much | 15:16 |
| bkero | How much would an insurance company charge me if I had "bad genes"? | 15:17 |
| cluckj | $0, it's illegal afaik | 15:18 |
| faceface_ | http://www.springerlink.com/content/6vkbfrlr7waqk1q6/ | 15:18 |
| bkero | Until the next cabinet change. :P | 15:18 |
| faceface_ | table 1 is nice | 15:18 |
| cluckj | hehe | 15:18 |
| bkero | We _just_ got the "pre-existing conditions" clause. | 15:18 |
| faceface_ | its illegal right, but they do ask for family history | 15:18 |
| faceface_ | which is a proxy for direct testing | 15:18 |
| cluckj | hehe | 15:19 |
| faceface_ | bkero: I want to give a talk on these issues | 15:19 |
| bkero | faceface_: | 15:19 |
| faceface_ | we need govt to step in here | 15:19 |
| bkero | To carry that one step further | 15:19 |
| bkero | What would the implications be if some researchers discovered a 'gay gene'? | 15:19 |
| bkero | Gene therapy for soliders? | 15:20 |
| cluckj | lol | 15:21 |
| fenn | this channel is no-philosophy, please | 15:21 |
| faceface_ | bkero: right | 15:21 |
| bkero | fenn: Hah alright | 15:21 |
| faceface_ | I tried to get some discussion on that here: | 15:21 |
| cluckj | I'm not sure how practical ethical issues are philosophy :P | 15:21 |
| bkero | fenn: this channel is no-fenn, please ;) | 15:21 |
| faceface_ | http://www.plosone.org/annotation/listThread.action?inReplyTo=info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fannotation%2Fcdd25aa3-c25e-4348-a894-f504186e9e7f&root=info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fannotation%2Fcdd25aa3-c25e-4348-a894-f504186e9e7f | 15:22 |
| faceface_ | fenn: if you can explain to me why 'no-philosophy' whout resourting to philosophical arguments, I'll comply | 15:22 |
| fenn | cluckj: this channel also discourages discussion of ethics | 15:22 |
| cluckj | hehehe | 15:23 |
| faceface_ | wow- they realy know the value of short url's on that site! | 15:23 |
| cluckj | why? | 15:23 |
| fenn | faceface_: because the transhumanist community is mired ass-deep in ethics and philosophy discussions, meanwhile nothing gets done | 15:23 |
| faceface_ | fenn: let me know when I start impacting your productivity | 15:23 |
| fenn | the whole point of 'hplusroadmap' is "what do we actually have to do before any of these discussions will matter" | 15:24 |
| faceface_ | I said no philosophy btw ;-) | 15:24 |
| fenn | it's all the same to me | 15:24 |
| cluckj | fenn so this is a no-future zone :) | 15:24 |
| cluckj | :trollface: | 15:24 |
| fenn | no, you're missing the point | 15:24 |
| * faceface_ punches cluckj in hte face | 15:25 | |
| cluckj | :) | 15:25 |
| * fenn got trolled | 15:25 | |
| faceface_ | ;-) | 15:25 |
| cluckj | I'm just playin' | 15:25 |
| cluckj | kanzure explained it to me at h+ | 15:25 |
| faceface_ | anyway, I'm looking for some hard figures to present to policy makers | 15:25 |
| cluckj | but as an anthropologist, I'm intruigued by it and want to know more about the "why" | 15:26 |
| faceface_ | I 100% agree with the philosophy of "do it first, explain it later", but I'm trying to get to this conference and I need a 'credible' talk | 15:26 |
| cluckj | which conference? | 15:27 |
| fenn | faceface_: yeah, numbers are nice | 15:27 |
| faceface_ | CSHL personal genomics | 15:27 |
| faceface_ | one moment | 15:27 |
| faceface_ | http://meetings.cshl.edu/meetings/person10.shtml | 15:28 |
| faceface_ | once I get an abstract in, I can appply for travel funds | 15:28 |
| cluckj | :\ | 15:28 |
| cluckj | I might need to go to that | 15:28 |
| cluckj | YOW | 15:28 |
| cluckj | $825 | 15:29 |
| faceface_ | heh | 15:29 |
| faceface_ | what time is it in the states? | 15:29 |
| cluckj | 6:30pm on the east coast | 15:29 |
| faceface_ | we have until midnight to get abstracts in and apply for travel funds | 15:29 |
| cluckj | lol | 15:29 |
| faceface_ | i mean scolarships | 15:29 |
| cluckj | 5.5 hours isn't bad for an abstract | 15:29 |
| faceface_ | nah | 15:29 |
| faceface_ | I got mine started: | 15:30 |
| bkero | If anyone wants to bring me to a conference just let me know. ;) | 15:30 |
| bkero | I can act intelligent and mysterious -- a real asset to your cause. | 15:30 |
| faceface_ | http://humangenomerights.org/index.php/User:Dan_Bolser | 15:30 |
| fenn | "A new form of insurance, genetic insurance, can eliminate these problems and allow everyone to be insured." | 15:30 |
| faceface_ | bkero: noted | 15:30 |
| bkero | also: I'm poor | 15:30 |
| faceface_ | fenn: where did you read that? | 15:31 |
| fenn | interesting idea.. if you don't know your genetics, play the gene lottery! | 15:31 |
| faceface_ | heh | 15:31 |
| fenn | if you've got bad genes, you win | 15:31 |
| faceface_ | thats life | 15:31 |
| fenn | http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6V8K-45DMNXW-G&_user=10&_coverDate=03%2F31%2F1994&_rdoc=1&_fmt=high&_orig=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_searchStrId=1374343753&_rerunOrigin=google&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=748c2502eda1c3d4d512348b168d84af | 15:31 |
| faceface_ | sounds lunatic | 15:31 |
| fenn | i'm just googling for "economics genetic testing" | 15:31 |
| fenn | WHO has some bullshit policy document with zero explanation of the rational basis for it | 15:32 |
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| cluckj | faceface_: http://www.sts.rpi.edu/pl/faculty/michael-fortun check out some of those after you have the abstract submitted | 15:32 |
| faceface_ | fenn: sounds right | 15:32 |
| faceface_ | 'gene watch uk' is a luddite movement with a similar agenda | 15:33 |
| faceface_ | cluckj: ty | 15:33 |
| cluckj | yup | 15:33 |
| cluckj | if you have questions, let me know | 15:34 |
| cluckj | he's my advisor | 15:34 |
| faceface_ | ic | 15:34 |
| fenn | ugh. 'in June 2008, California's Department of Public Health sent letters to 13 genetic testing companies, informing them that they were "in violation of California law... which prohibits the offering of a clinical laboratory test directly to the consumer without a physician order"' | 15:34 |
| fenn | i wish the abortion clinic bombers would go up the food chain a bit | 15:35 |
| bkero | Solution: fuck California. | 15:35 |
| faceface_ | fenn: how do you mean? | 15:36 |
| fenn | people who make the sort of awful policies that led to the pfizer-state we now live in | 15:36 |
| faceface_ | so the bombers should do away with the legislation? | 15:36 |
| faceface_ | (in this case) | 15:36 |
| fenn | it's not legislation | 15:36 |
| fenn | it's "the department of public health" which just does whatever it wants | 15:37 |
| faceface_ | I'm just trying to work out if that is what you meant | 15:37 |
| fenn | i mean.. anybody who wants to test themselves for possible genetic diseases ought to be able to do it without any fucking doctor getting in their way. if some bureaucrat decides it's in his economic best interest to hurt me (statistically, on average), then fuck them, they should get blown up | 15:38 |
| faceface_ | right | 15:39 |
| faceface_ | well.. I'm not building bombs... but I know what you mean | 15:39 |
| faceface_ | how about tweeking your genes? | 15:40 |
| faceface_ | ;-) | 15:40 |
| faceface_ | I bet you'll laugh when they make that illegal | 15:40 |
| fenn | i very much disagree with this road modern nations like the US are headed down, where we distribute blame so much that policy becomes like "god's will", unexplainable and nothing you can do about it | 15:40 |
| faceface_ | fenn: right | 15:40 |
| cluckj | ehh, I don't know if it's that simple :P | 15:40 |
| faceface_ | there is a system of school inspection here in the UK | 15:40 |
| faceface_ | and it turns out that the inspectors are doing a half-assed job | 15:41 |
| faceface_ | so what next? | 15:41 |
| faceface_ | inspecton inspectors? | 15:41 |
| fenn | something bad happened. everybody did their job. nobody's fault. nothing gets fixed. | 15:41 |
| cluckj | one of my things is looking at what policy does out in the world, and how it gets made | 15:41 |
| faceface_ | just teach because you love to teach damit! | 15:41 |
| fenn | well, now teachers aren't allowed to teach how they want, they must follow standardized teaching practices | 15:41 |
| fenn | and students have no choice in the matter either | 15:42 |
| fenn | nobody has any choice | 15:42 |
| faceface_ | amen | 15:42 |
| cluckj | lol | 15:42 |
| cluckj | college professors can teach whatever they want :) | 15:42 |
| faceface_ | some dude wouldn't sell me a sandwich because the electricity was down... I had the right money... | 15:42 |
| faceface_ | so this is the end of society then is it? your till is bust? | 15:43 |
| faceface_ | ;-) | 15:43 |
| fenn | college professor have been meticulously selected by 20 years of filtering processes to be the sort of people that end up perpetuating the stale university system | 15:43 |
| cluckj | haha | 15:43 |
| cluckj | thanks | 15:43 |
| * faceface_ goes back to half-assed research ;-) | 15:43 | |
| faceface_ | l8r | 15:43 |
| fenn | so cluckj what do you propose to do about this unfortunate situation? | 15:44 |
| cluckj | become a college professor, fuck the system up | 15:44 |
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| fenn | are you aware this has been tried before? | 15:45 |
| cluckj | yes, there are lots of professors like that now | 15:45 |
| fenn | i think to make any difference we have to impact their bottom line, the massive amounts of money flowing into the system | 15:45 |
| cluckj | oh? | 15:46 |
| fenn | 50% of grants go to university "administration" | 15:46 |
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| fenn | this in addition to the $50k/year or whatever that students pay, either out of pocket or via government grants | 15:46 |
| fenn | er, s/grants/scholarships/ | 15:46 |
| fenn | i can't figure out where all this money is going | 15:47 |
| cluckj | neither can I | 15:47 |
| fenn | it's a massive amount of cash, almost as much as the defense budget | 15:47 |
| fenn | sth like 200 billion/year | 15:47 |
| cluckj | well | 15:47 |
| cluckj | I know exactly where it's going | 15:47 |
| cluckj | in the case of my university | 15:47 |
| cluckj | $1 million president's salary, new buildings, sidewalks, etc. | 15:47 |
| fenn | oops, sorry, 1 trillion annually, according to usgovernmentspending.com | 15:48 |
| cluckj | I did get a raise this year | 15:48 |
| fenn | cluckj: how much do you make now? more than $100k/year? | 15:50 |
| cluckj | LOL | 15:50 |
| cluckj | hahahahhahhahahahahhaha | 15:50 |
| cluckj | dude I'm a PhD student | 15:50 |
| cluckj | I make under $20k a year being a teaching assistant | 15:51 |
| fenn | consider this: "For 2009-10, the average yearly college tuition in the United States was $26273" | 15:51 |
| cluckj | that doesn't surprise me at all | 15:51 |
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| cluckj | I give my students their money's worth | 15:51 |
| fenn | next time you go outside on a nice day, look at all the undergrats, just look at them | 15:51 |
| fenn | see how many there are | 15:51 |
| cluckj | :) | 15:52 |
| cluckj | there are 5000 of them | 15:52 |
| fenn | so, at least $230m/year for your school, in tuition alone | 15:52 |
| cluckj | plus 3000 graduate students | 15:53 |
| fenn | how much does your lab get in grants? $500k/yr? how many labs in the building? | 15:53 |
| cluckj | all bringing in the same amount | 15:53 |
| cluckj | I don't work in a lab :P | 15:53 |
| cluckj | I don't know how much the labs make | 15:53 |
| fenn | well, whatever unit of administrative accountability | 15:53 |
| cluckj | but they spend it all | 15:53 |
| fenn | no, they fork over 50% of it to the "administration" | 15:53 |
| fenn | it's a huge scam, and i'm amazed at how nobody even notices | 15:54 |
| cluckj | I don't think it's that much for my field | 15:55 |
| cluckj | if I had a grant, they would take 0% from me | 15:55 |
| cluckj | it's probably different in the other sciences, though | 15:55 |
| cluckj | laboratory space and utilities cost a lot of money...so I can see them skimming a bit off the top there | 15:57 |
| cluckj | but not 50% | 15:57 |
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| uniqanomaly | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzLPCMAA6wQ&NR=1 YEAH | 16:05 |
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| faceface_ | genetic insurance... I like it | 16:15 |
| faceface_ | I want to introduce 'prison insurance' for the genetically predisposed to violence | 16:15 |
| faceface_ | 'get out of jail free' | 16:15 |
| cluckj | lol | 16:16 |
| cluckj | "genetic predisposition" to any behavior is a dubious claim | 16:17 |
| kanzure | cluckj: the real reason for no philosophy is that we don't want to handhold you through your philosophical development.. i don't have time for that | 16:27 |
| kanzure | cluckj: it really is 50%; universities apply a blanket policy like this (independent of field) | 16:31 |
| kanzure | faceface_: you know about http://diygenomics.org/ right? | 16:32 |
| faceface_ | http://www.amazon.com/Genetic-Diseases-Monographs-Medical-Genetics/dp/0195125827 | 16:35 |
| faceface_ | kanzure: no | 16:35 |
| kanzure | okay, well, it's exactly what it sounds like :P | 16:36 |
| * faceface_ looks | 16:36 | |
| faceface_ | cluckj: seen the genetic predisposition to financial risk taking paper I posted? | 16:36 |
| kanzure | faceface_: can you link to the conference proceedings website? | 16:36 |
| faceface_ | what about the 'genetic predisposition to cystic fibrosis'... not that dubious | 16:36 |
| kanzure | is this it? http://meetings.cshl.edu/abstractsub/abstractsub.aspx | 16:36 |
| faceface_ | no, one moment | 16:37 |
| faceface_ | http://meetings.cshl.edu/meetings/person10.shtml | 16:37 |
| faceface_ | nice site | 16:37 |
| kanzure | does it cost $800 to speak at the conference? | 16:37 |
| faceface_ | no | 16:37 |
| faceface_ | invited speakers have been selected | 16:38 |
| faceface_ | conference attendees are being invited to submit talks, but they will pay full wack | 16:38 |
| faceface_ | 'yough scientists' are encouraged to enquire for scolarships | 16:38 |
| kanzure | haha that's retarded | 16:38 |
| faceface_ | (expected to be submitting an abstract) | 16:38 |
| kanzure | for that price, they should sequence your genome | 16:39 |
| faceface_ | kanzure: if you're near I'd suggest crashing it | 16:39 |
| faceface_ | lol | 16:39 |
| faceface_ | 100% | 16:39 |
| faceface_ | perhaps that is included? | 16:39 |
| faceface_ | we should definately organize a sequencing jamboree | 16:39 |
| faceface_ | turn up and demand a slot on the programme | 16:40 |
| faceface_ | I think we should start versioning the human genome | 16:41 |
| kanzure | anyway, my point is that a presentation on DIYgenomics.org and related topics would be neat. | 16:41 |
| faceface_ | get it in git | 16:41 |
| faceface_ | true | 16:41 |
| faceface_ | will you write an abstract? | 16:41 |
| kanzure | so maybe you should consider an abstract about that | 16:41 |
| kanzure | wait, i thought you were writing an abstract | 16:41 |
| kanzure | and we were helping you? | 16:41 |
| faceface_ | I am, but I'm 90% done | 16:41 |
| kanzure | i see | 16:41 |
| kanzure | well, i can afford to go, but i don't know if i want to | 16:41 |
| faceface_ | thanks for teh kaggle link btw | 16:41 |
| kanzure | imho $800+ is really lame | 16:41 |
| faceface_ | kanzure: right, if they don't give me a scolarship, I'm not going | 16:42 |
| kanzure | you should consider going to http://opensciencesummit.com/ instead | 16:43 |
| faceface_ | cheaper? ;-) | 16:44 |
| kanzure | yes | 16:47 |
| faceface_ | did you know that bees have genetically different populations of mitochondria in their muscles than in the rest of their body? | 16:50 |
| cluckj | cystic fibrosis isn't a behavior | 16:54 |
| cluckj | kanzure would you cite that? D: | 16:54 |
| kanzure | http://www.wauland.de/english.html ccc was founded in 1981? huh | 16:55 |
| cluckj | I'm not disagreeing, but I'd like to be able to throw it in the face of administrators >:) | 16:55 |
| kanzure | cluckj: i was looking for the policy on utexas.edu and then for some reason started to read about european endowments for dead men | 16:56 |
| * kanzure goes back to the hunt | 16:56 | |
| kanzure | also i was scratching my head over http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flibanserin the text for the "mechanism of action" is really vague and probably horseshit ("it has to RESTORE the balance" is the first clue that it's bullshit) | 16:56 |
| cluckj | lol | 17:01 |
| cluckj | "However, some have recently proposed that Female Sexual Dysfunction is merely a case of Disease Mongering and a marketing trick to create a market for sex drugs for women and to medicalize women's sexuality." | 17:03 |
| cluckj | ahahaha | 17:03 |
| cluckj | sounds about right | 17:03 |
| kanzure | i don't think this was it: | 17:04 |
| kanzure | http://www.utexas.edu/research/osp/osp_handbook.html#idc | 17:04 |
| kanzure | but it's close | 17:04 |
| cluckj | 09/01/08 - 08/31/10 52.0 On Campus Research | 17:06 |
| cluckj | holy crap | 17:06 |
| kanzure | oh here we go | 17:06 |
| kanzure | http://www.utexas.edu/research/osp/indirect_costs.html | 17:06 |
| kanzure | yeah | 17:06 |
| cluckj | that's pretty problematic | 17:06 |
| kanzure | it's also standard/typical | 17:06 |
| kanzure | http://www.washington.edu/research/main.php?page=indirectCosts | 17:07 |
| kanzure | interesting how this is standardized across universities under the same name | 17:07 |
| cluckj | I'm looking up RPI's costs stuff | 17:07 |
| cluckj | hehe | 17:07 |
| kanzure | "indirect costs" | 17:07 |
| cluckj | yes | 17:07 |
| cluckj | "protection money" | 17:08 |
| kanzure | and "facilities and administrative cost" | 17:08 |
| kanzure | washington.edu is 55% | 17:08 |
| cluckj | facilities and administration costs a lot | 17:08 |
| kanzure | hot damn this is a cash cow | 17:08 |
| cluckj | but 50%, seriously? | 17:08 |
| cluckj | http://admissions.rpi.edu/dept/finop/controller/rfa/rates.html | 17:10 |
| cluckj | sweet. | 17:10 |
| cluckj | that was for 2004... | 17:11 |
| cluckj | but I can't imagine it's changed | 17:11 |
| kanzure | oh yay a primer on this bullshit: http://web.mit.edu/fnl/volume/205/canizares.html | 17:12 |
| kanzure | http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/circulars/a021/a021.html | 17:13 |
| kanzure | http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/rewrite/circulars/a021/a021.html | 17:13 |
| cluckj | Computed retroactively for MIT FY2007, the actual F&A rate was 71.1%. | 17:13 |
| * cluckj barfs | 17:13 | |
| cluckj | bbl | 17:13 |
| faceface_ | cluckj: autism? | 17:21 |
| faceface_ | thats a behaviour isn't it? | 17:21 |
| faceface_ | ppls objection to genetic propensities is partly vestigial | 17:21 |
| faceface_ | imho | 17:22 |
| kanzure | http://google-opensource.blogspot.com/2010/06/introducing-google-command-line-tool.html | 17:23 |
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| kanzure | essays on peer review http://garfield.library.upenn.edu/peerreview.html by Eugene Garfield <eugene.garfield@thomsonreuters.com> (one of the founders of The Scientist in 1986) | 17:31 |
| faceface_ | kanzure: out of interest do you use gmail? | 17:36 |
| kanzure | yes | 17:38 |
| faceface_ | do you use nested lables? | 17:38 |
| faceface_ | the lab | 17:38 |
| kanzure | no, haven't heard of that one | 17:41 |
| faceface_ | it's kind of buggy, and everyone has been in the forum discussing bugs, but google are nowhre | 17:47 |
| faceface_ | nowhere | 17:47 |
| faceface_ | just gripeing is all | 17:47 |
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| faceface_ | cluckj: just read that link... interesting | 19:17 |
| faceface_ | can you get me PDF's of some of those articles? | 19:18 |
| faceface_ | ever played with a decode me account? | 19:18 |
| faceface_ | I'll lurk | 19:19 |
| faceface_ | night++ | 19:19 |
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| kanzure | what's an ieee "statement of assurance"? | 21:31 |
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| kanzure | epic fail with ceo of sparkfun | 22:01 |
| kanzure | http://elevenarms.com/lolz.tiff | 22:01 |
| QuantumG | tiff, seriously? | 22:03 |
| cluckj | faceface yes, let me know what you want | 22:16 |
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| cluckj | faceface yes autism is a set of behaviors, I guess, but genetic? dunno, maybe | 22:20 |
| cluckj | I'm not saying that there isn't a genetic component to behavioral disorders or diseases, but that setting up some causality is dubious | 22:20 |
| cluckj | and most of the time if you say "genetic predisposition" to a non-expert audience, it ends up setting up some kind of causality in their minds | 22:21 |
| cluckj | which is not good | 22:21 |
| cluckj | just a load of genetic determinism | 22:21 |
| cluckj | I've also played with a decodeme account :P | 22:21 |
| JayDugger | Good morning, everyone. | 22:22 |
| cluckj | hello | 22:22 |
| JayDugger | fenn, AJollyLife: AI, nanotech, intelligence enhancement, space colonies--these won't "save the world." Better tools permit a better class of mistake. | 22:24 |
| JayDugger | Would you rather hit your thumb with a hammer, or put a metal spike through your hand with a nail gun? | 22:25 |
| JayDugger | Off-world colonies expand our local biology's range of possible habitats. | 22:25 |
| JayDugger | That's back-ups, not saving the world. | 22:26 |
| JayDugger | cluckj: have you heard anything about the respone of decodeme, 23andme, and others to the FDA? | 22:27 |
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| cluckj | JayDugger, no, not yet, have you? | 22:34 |
| kanzure | hi memenode | 22:34 |
| JayDugger | cluckj: No, and I worry a little that I wasted good money on the 23andMe test. | 22:34 |
| memenode | hi | 22:34 |
| JayDugger | Good morning, memnode. | 22:34 |
| JayDugger | memenode, rather. | 22:35 |
| memenode | Good morning :) | 22:35 |
| memenode | eh morning... I didn't even go to sleep yet :D | 22:35 |
| kanzure | sleep is for the meak | 22:36 |
| kanzure | *weak | 22:36 |
| cluckj | JayDugger I don't know how the FDA decision will hit tests that have been submitted already | 22:36 |
| JayDugger | Yes, yes--`sudo skdb make-me -a modafinil` | 22:36 |
| kanzure | only one? | 22:38 |
| JayDugger | You can always take more; you can't very well take less. | 22:38 |
| kanzure | no, i meant on the production | 22:38 |
| kanzure | making only one versus in batches | 22:38 |
| JayDugger | Waste not, want not. | 22:38 |
| JayDugger | (I'll stop talking in aphorisms once I finish coffee cup #2.) | 22:39 |
| kanzure | http://www.slideshare.net/AntonyWilliams/mobilizing-chemistry-chemistry-in-our-hands apps for chemistry on smartphones and other crap | 22:47 |
| kanzure | http://www.chemaxon.com/library/user-presentations/the-mobile-kinome%C2%A0/ | 22:48 |
| JayDugger | Cute logo. | 22:48 |
| kanzure | http://www.chemaxon.com/library/ugm-presentations/2010-europe/ | 22:48 |
| JayDugger | And a hefty dose of iPad kool-aid. | 22:50 |
| kanzure | faceface: btw, russell hanson's email address is: russellhanson@gmail.com | 22:56 |
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| QuantumG | get that email kanzure ;) | 23:17 |
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| kanzure | QuantumG: you know i'm working with him on like, all his projects, right? | 23:40 |
| kanzure | sorry for the short email. i was on the phone, and then realzed that it would make more sense in here | 23:41 |
| QuantumG | yeah, I figured you would be.. I was more suggesting that you might appreciate the tone | 23:43 |
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| kanzure | oh | 23:56 |
| kanzure | you mean the "please do this because i'm lazy" thing? | 23:57 |
| kanzure | hm since when am i a member of humanityplus.org? wtf | 23:57 |
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