| --- Day changed Sun Jul 04 2010 | ||
| brunsgenus | Does anyone know where I could contact a marine biologist? | 01:11 |
|---|---|---|
| Utopiah | (unrelated) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_artificial_chromosome | 01:26 |
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| brunsgenus_ | I need to find a marine biologist who could help me in obtaining an obscure jellfish | 01:37 |
| Utopiah | :-# http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R84LRX8FeBA won't help at all but I (weirdly) like it | 01:39 |
| brunsgenus_ | lol | 01:45 |
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| brunsgenus | gm | 01:58 |
| brunsgenus | damn | 02:05 |
| brunsgenus | ybit | 02:24 |
| brunsgenus | your question earlier | 02:24 |
| brunsgenus | about the other sections | 02:24 |
| brunsgenus | ask splicer | 02:24 |
| brunsgenus | I got it from him | 02:24 |
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| JayDugger | Happy Independence Day, everyone. | 05:05 |
| JayDugger | Happy belated Canada Day and happy early Bastille Day, as appropriate. | 05:06 |
| * Utopiah just discovered http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bastille_Day#Bastille_Day_celebrations_in_other_countries | 05:12 | |
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| kanzure | hmm youtube is broken | 06:39 |
| kanzure | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GpkQSB_h5lY | 06:39 |
| Utopiah | it's a JS exploit | 06:40 |
| kanzure | http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/cluc5/html_injection_vulnerability_in_youtube_comments/ | 06:40 |
| kanzure | yep | 06:40 |
| Utopiah | it will spread as long as YT doesnt do anything | 06:40 |
| kanzure | you know.. with an automatic comment poster, we could spam the entire youtube userbase | 06:44 |
| kanzure | how much money do you think could be made from the adsense clicks? | 06:44 |
| JayDugger | I have no idea. | 06:45 |
| Utopiah | Google is good at tracking ... they won't pay for that. | 06:45 |
| JayDugger | How would that work? | 06:45 |
| kanzure | Utopiah: okay, then don't use google :P | 06:45 |
| bdesk | or maybe it can be combined with other attacks, which would be more interesting. | 06:45 |
| kanzure | bdesk: there's not a lot of time before youtube fixes it | 06:45 |
| Utopiah | Internet ads without Google? :/ | 06:45 |
| kanzure | Utopiah: yeah, like yahoo's | 06:45 |
| kanzure | or something | 06:45 |
| Utopiah | that's why they face a monopoly threat in France in France | 06:46 |
| Utopiah | well, you can try if you're fast enough but I doubt anybody will pay | 06:46 |
| JayDugger | Engineers Without Borders | 07:13 |
| JayDugger | http://www.ewb-usa.org/about.php | 07:13 |
| kanzure | my local EWB group was just building water purifiers.. but they weren't very good. | 07:13 |
| JayDugger | That's too bad. | 07:13 |
| Utopiah | JayDugger: http://www.ewb-international.org/ international | 07:14 |
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| JayDugger | Well, back to finding a substitute for Firefox's HaH extension. | 07:31 |
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| kanzure | pmetzger: package received. thanks. | 10:53 |
| pmetzger | so you have the paper copy now? | 10:56 |
| pmetzger | most excellent. | 10:56 |
| pmetzger | is it in good condition? | 10:56 |
| kanzure | yes | 10:56 |
| kanzure | and yes | 10:56 |
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| pmetzger | As I've said, this is perhaps the most interesting/important book in the field of molecular machines. Well worth the read (though a bit of a slog). | 10:57 |
| kanzure | i read the section on design automation, design compilers, etc. and it was very underdeveloped | 10:58 |
| kanzure | but i suppose that's not the purpose of the book | 10:58 |
| pmetzger | no, it isn't. | 10:58 |
| bdesk | which book? | 10:59 |
| bdesk | it is one by drexler? | 11:00 |
| kanzure | yes, 'nanosystems' | 11:00 |
| pmetzger | remember, this was his doctoral thesis. it covers a LOT of material for a thesis. | 11:00 |
| pmetzger | and it was 20 years ago. | 11:00 |
| pmetzger | many topics aren't covered in nearly enough detail, but that's okay. | 11:00 |
| kanzure | pmetzger: have you ever been to the institute for molecular manufacturing? | 11:02 |
| kanzure | is it just some office space? | 11:02 |
| kanzure | http://imm.org/ | 11:02 |
| bdesk | i've heard that rice university has good research in this area. or used to. | 11:02 |
| pmetzger | IMM isn't even office space. | 11:03 |
| pmetzger | it is a virtual organization. | 11:03 |
| pmetzger | bdesk: no, it isn't. | 11:03 |
| kanzure | then why is IMM listed as being in palo alto? | 11:03 |
| pmetzger | bdesk: I can name everyone doing direct research on molecular machines (outside of the molbio world) | 11:03 |
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| pmetzger | It is technically in Palo Alto. :) | 11:03 |
| pmetzger | it has a mailbox there. | 11:04 |
| pmetzger | it exists to be an affiliation for Eric, J. Storrs Hall, Ralph Merkle and a couple of other people. | 11:04 |
| kanzure | pmetzger: go ahead and name all of them, please. | 11:04 |
| pmetzger | and to provide a way to give money to a few of them. | 11:04 |
| pmetzger | Well, lets see. There are the people I just mentioned, there's Damian Allis. | 11:05 |
| pmetzger | There's Jim von Ehr's team. | 11:05 |
| bdesk | i was thinking of this http://cnst.rice.edu/ | 11:05 |
| pmetzger | There is Robert Freitas | 11:05 |
| pmetzger | bdesk: smalley specifically denounced drexler. | 11:05 |
| bdesk | oh. well maybe he is right? | 11:06 |
| pmetzger | bdesk: and their work is all synthetic chemistry, no molecular manfacturing. | 11:06 |
| kanzure | yeah, well, smalley died | 11:06 |
| pmetzger | bdesk: no, he was wrong. | 11:06 |
| pmetzger | bdesk: most of his criticisms existed because he wanted money. | 11:06 |
| bdesk | kanzure: lol | 11:06 |
| pmetzger | bdesk: at least that's my interpretation. there was a half billion dollar pool of cash and the only way to get it was to make drexler look bad. | 11:07 |
| bdesk | sorry i didn't mean to interrupt the listing | 11:07 |
| pmetzger | bdesk: but anyway, smalley and drexler's debates are online, and almost everything smalley said was already shown wrong by papers drexler did years before smalley's criticisms. | 11:07 |
| bdesk | i see. i didn't realize this was such a thing. | 11:08 |
| pmetzger | like, for example, smalley kept claiming drexler wanted to "pick up" individual atoms with molecular tongs or some such thing, which was something drexler himself had said was impossible years before smalley claimed it was drexler's idea. | 11:08 |
| pmetzger | it was a very dirty fight. | 11:08 |
| pmetzger | kind of wrecked drexler's reputation among chemists. | 11:08 |
| kanzure | pmetzger: please continue with the name listing | 11:09 |
| pmetzger | well, lets see. there is me, though I'm not important. | 11:09 |
| pmetzger | I think I've covered the major people at this point, really. I mean, there are a few others. | 11:09 |
| pmetzger | and one might count the DNA origami people (though I don't.) | 11:09 |
| pmetzger | but it isn't a large community. | 11:10 |
| pmetzger | Oh, there is Moriarty in the UK. | 11:10 |
| pmetzger | and Freitas has a couple of collaborators in Russia who's names I can't remember. | 11:10 |
| pmetzger | that's just about it. | 11:10 |
| pmetzger | the DNA origami world, if you count it, is a bit larger. Winfree, Rothemund, Seeman... | 11:11 |
| pmetzger | guy at Harvard who I'm embarrassed to say I can't remember the name of right now (senior moment) | 11:11 |
| pmetzger | Harvard Med. | 11:11 |
| pmetzger | by now there probably are some others in DNA origami. | 11:12 |
| kanzure | the russian collaborators are Maksim Astafiev, Diana Alisheva, Natalia Akberova, and Denis Tarasov | 11:12 |
| kanzure | pmetzger: at harvard med? probably george church | 11:12 |
| pmetzger | no. | 11:12 |
| pmetzger | he's not doing DNA origami | 11:12 |
| pmetzger | hang on | 11:12 |
| pmetzger | William Shih | 11:13 |
| pmetzger | that's who I was thinking of. | 11:13 |
| pmetzger | Though the DNA origami world is spreading pretty fast. | 11:13 |
| pmetzger | However, they can't really make machines in the conventional sense with DNA origami yet. Still, it is atomically precise work, so I should count it at some level. | 11:13 |
| pmetzger | It is very different from the vision of machine phase chemistry though. | 11:13 |
| pmetzger | it is all solution phase. | 11:13 |
| pmetzger | anyway, in terms of machine phase stuff, I listed just about all of them above. I probably have forgotten two or three, but that's about it. | 11:14 |
| pmetzger | it isn't a big universe. | 11:14 |
| kanzure | chris phoenix? | 11:15 |
| pmetzger | Chris vaguely counts, yah. | 11:15 |
| pmetzger | he's published real papers, though I don't think he does a lot of active research. | 11:16 |
| pmetzger | but yah, I guess he counts. | 11:16 |
| kanzure | then his ex-wife, christine peterson? | 11:16 |
| pmetzger | Christine doesn't really do any research on this stuff. | 11:16 |
| kanzure | no, i guess not | 11:17 |
| pmetzger | never has. I think the chemistry degree at MIT turned her off to doing real work in the field. | 11:17 |
| pmetzger | Though I could be mistaken. | 11:17 |
| pmetzger | She's a cool person but I don't think she's ever done any real research in the field. | 11:17 |
| pmetzger | I'm sure I'm missing a couple of other people and there are probably a few I don't even know about, but not many. | 11:18 |
| pmetzger | I guess Christian Schafmeister if you stretch things a bunch? | 11:19 |
| pmetzger | I mean, his interests are clearly in the same direction. | 11:19 |
| pmetzger | but he does wet chemistry. some cool stuff with bisamino acids, but I haven't heard of much interesting progress from him in the last decade. | 11:20 |
| pmetzger | I'm stretching here, as I said. I'm sure there must be some others but not many. | 11:20 |
| bdesk | machine phase vs solution phase means in air vs in water? | 11:21 |
| pmetzger | no. | 11:21 |
| pmetzger | machine phase means something very different. | 11:21 |
| pmetzger | it is sort of like inner phase in enzymes only with completely active transport by nanomachines and in high vacuum. | 11:21 |
| bdesk | oh probably http://www.ruf.rice.edu/~rau/phys600/drexler.htm | 11:21 |
| pmetzger | not a great introduction there actually. | 11:22 |
| pmetzger | there's a good explanation in nanosystems. | 11:22 |
| pmetzger | Basically the notion is this: | 11:22 |
| pmetzger | in solution phase, you depend on diffusion and random collisions to get reactants into the correct conformation. | 11:22 |
| pmetzger | this means that unwanted side reactions are possible, that low probability conformations mean slow reactions and/or low yields. | 11:23 |
| bdesk | and yet the alternative to this is not atom placing? | 11:23 |
| pmetzger | you are also in an environment where highly reactive moieties will collide repeatedly with things, thus causing them to react in general before touching the right thing | 11:24 |
| pmetzger | atom-by-atom placing is a deceptive term. | 11:24 |
| bdesk | i don't understand how it is different from machine phase. | 11:24 |
| pmetzger | So imagine that instead of two macromolecules hitting each other at random, they're bonded to handles that are mechanically placed together in a high vacuum. | 11:24 |
| pmetzger | the angle and force are precisely controlled by the machinery | 11:24 |
| pmetzger | it is in high vacuum, so no interaction other than the desired one is possible. | 11:25 |
| bdesk | ok so machine phase vs solution phase means in vacuum vs in air/water/whatever | 11:25 |
| pmetzger | intramolecular rearrangements are a problem for unstable/reactive moieties but not intermolecular reactions. | 11:25 |
| pmetzger | no, vacuum isn't enough. | 11:25 |
| pmetzger | complete control of the geometric interaction of the reactants in high vacuum is the important part. | 11:26 |
| pmetzger | inner phase in enzymes is like this, where there is also nearly complete control of the geometry of the reactants. | 11:26 |
| bdesk | how is this not what you were suggesting smalley was falsely accusing drexler of endorsing? | 11:26 |
| pmetzger | smalley was claiming the notion was to pick up atoms with robot arms | 11:27 |
| pmetzger | that's not the same thing | 11:27 |
| bdesk | ok i see. | 11:27 |
| pmetzger | you can't pick up an individual carbon atom or what have you | 11:27 |
| pmetzger | it doesn't work. | 11:27 |
| bdesk | so you're saying you can have atomic precision by picking up a chuck of atoms by a handle, and this isnt' the same thing as picking up a single atom. | 11:27 |
| pmetzger | but you CAN move around a large chunk of a molecule that is covalently or otherwise bonded. | 11:27 |
| pmetzger | it is very different, yes. | 11:28 |
| bdesk | ok. and this control is what is meant by machine phase. | 11:28 |
| pmetzger | the control is the important part. | 11:28 |
| pmetzger | it is a large chunk of how enzymes work as I noted. | 11:28 |
| pmetzger | one doesn't need covalent bonds, hydrogen bonds or other strong intermolecular forces are okay. | 11:28 |
| pmetzger | but you can't "pick up" an atom in the general case, and everyone knows that's a silly idea. | 11:29 |
| pmetzger | smalley also made very silly claims about positional uncertainty that drexler already did the calculations for in chapter 5 of nanosystems. | 11:30 |
| pmetzger | I think smalley was incapable of doing those calculations himself or understanding them. | 11:30 |
| pmetzger | but anyway, if smalley had been right about that stuff, biology wouldn't work either. | 11:30 |
| pmetzger | so it was clearly from the start incorrect. | 11:30 |
| pmetzger | it is a long sad story. | 11:30 |
| pmetzger | anyway, "nanosystems" has lots of small technical errors in it, as does any book like it. | 11:31 |
| pmetzger | but overall, it is pretty much dead on accurate. | 11:31 |
| pmetzger | nothing it claims can be done cannot be done. sometimes he has misprints/typos, sometimes he assumes certain molecules are more stable than they are, etc., but nothing that is actually important to the underlying thesis. | 11:32 |
| pmetzger | but very few people have actually read nanosystems, probably because it is such a hard book to read. you need a lot of background. | 11:32 |
| bdesk | the pieces are so small that it is hard to see them. or expensive to see them. | 11:33 |
| pmetzger | the pieces? | 11:33 |
| pmetzger | ? | 11:36 |
| bdesk | the little gears | 11:36 |
| kanzure | AFMs aren't very expensive. | 11:36 |
| pmetzger | you don't have to see them while you're making stuff. | 11:36 |
| pmetzger | drexler makes a good argument that you can get error rates below 1 in 10^-15 operations | 11:37 |
| pmetzger | which is good enough that you can make subsystems and test them and throw the broken ones away. | 11:37 |
| pmetzger | even much higher error rates would allow that. | 11:37 |
| kanzure | 10^-15 operations? you mean 10^15 operations right? | 11:37 |
| pmetzger | sorry. | 11:37 |
| pmetzger | yah. | 11:38 |
| kanzure | 1 in 0.00000001 operations wouldn't make sense :P | 11:38 |
| kanzure | or 0.00whatever1 | 11:38 |
| pmetzger | my brain isn't always 100% on. :) | 11:38 |
| pmetzger | an error rate of 1 in 10^15 or an error rate of 10^-15, clearly not 1 in 10^-15 :) | 11:40 |
| pmetzger | bdesk: you can get a copy of "Nanosystems" for $6 including shipping. I suggest buying one. It is very low effort to acquire. | 11:40 |
| pmetzger | http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/0471575186/ref=dp_olp_used?ie=UTF8&qid=1278268872&sr=8-1&condition=used | 11:41 |
| AJollyLife | the internet makes many things low effort to aqure | 11:41 |
| pmetzger | jolly: it does. | 11:41 |
| AJollyLife | i go to amazon and hit buynow and i am suddely poorer | 11:41 |
| pmetzger | being poorer by $6 is not a big deal though. :) | 11:42 |
| AJollyLife | yeah, id be sad if i had to worry about $6 | 11:43 |
| AJollyLife | apparently all my painkillers have expired :( | 11:43 |
| pmetzger | ooh! the price of used copies has gone up! | 11:44 |
| pmetzger | only one available for $3 now. | 11:44 |
| AJollyLife | anyone know if its a big deal if you take expired pain killers? | 11:44 |
| pmetzger | I wonder if I've had an impact on the market. | 11:44 |
| pmetzger | Jolly: it depends on the compound and how expired. | 11:45 |
| kanzure | pmetzger: what about "richard jones" | 11:45 |
| pmetzger | kanzure: in what context? | 11:45 |
| bdesk | get an AFM and look at the painkiller molecules. | 11:45 |
| kanzure | as a molecular machines researcher? | 11:45 |
| pmetzger | oh, he's more or less a skeptic. | 11:46 |
| pmetzger | he doesn't believe machine phase is possible, only synthetic biology I think. | 11:46 |
| kanzure | how about: Malcolm Heggie, Lev Kantorovich, Chris Pakes | 11:46 |
| AJollyLife | ive got tylenol that expired 11/09, and asprin that expired in 7/09. my abs are still really sore from a workout thursday, and it hurts when i move :( | 11:46 |
| pmetzger | kanzure: I don't know any of those names. | 11:46 |
| pmetzger | jolly: I wouldn't take either for sore muscles, but they're unlikely to harm you if they were stored in a reasonably cool dark place. | 11:47 |
| bdesk | tylenol will hurt you in the liver | 11:48 |
| AJollyLife | ive got some aleve stored at work, but i cant get in there atm. ive taken some arnica, which usually helps, but it hasnt made that much of a difference today | 11:48 |
| pmetzger | I'd just tough it out. Painkillers will only encourage you to damage the muscle more. | 11:48 |
| pmetzger | the pain is telling you something useful. | 11:49 |
| AJollyLife | very true | 11:49 |
| kanzure | pmetzger: have any papers to add to http://designfiles.org/papers/nanotech/ ? :) | 11:50 |
| bdesk | do the conditions of synthetic biology count as machine phase or as solution phase? or is it somewhere inbetween? | 11:50 |
| pmetzger | I count it somewhere in between. | 11:50 |
| pmetzger | And I think synthetic biology research is legitimately important and fascinating. | 11:50 |
| pmetzger | I track the field. | 11:50 |
| pmetzger | kanzure: pakes seems to be doing some interesting work with probes now that I look at the page, but no, hadn't heard of pakes before. | 11:51 |
| pmetzger | kanzure: none of my own yet. Give me two years. | 11:51 |
| bdesk | so "doesn't believe machine phase is possible, only synthetic biology" would mean that he doesn't think that you can get closer to machine phase than biology has already accomplished? | 11:51 |
| kanzure | it takes about a year to get a paper published (after you have written it) unless you dump it on arxiv or something | 11:52 |
| pmetzger | bdesk: I get that impression, yes. His opinions are a bit weird. | 11:52 |
| pmetzger | bdesk: he claims to be very sympathetic to the field and then has... weird arguments why certain things cant work even though in some cases they've been experimentally demonstrated already | 11:52 |
| pmetzger | bdesk: sometimes argues no one has an idea of how to do certain things that there are published papers on. | 11:53 |
| pmetzger | the problem with the field is that there are just too few people doing work. | 11:53 |
| pmetzger | kanzure: I'm an Arxiv kind of guy. | 11:53 |
| pmetzger | spiritually. :) | 11:53 |
| bdesk | what about open access peer reviewed publishing? | 11:54 |
| kanzure | bdesk: i haven't timed it :) haven't done any yet, either. | 11:54 |
| pmetzger | I like open access peer reviewed publishing. | 11:54 |
| kanzure | the paper going through the pipeline with my name on it was coauthored with some more conventional authors ;) | 11:54 |
| pmetzger | Open access in general. | 11:54 |
| kanzure | and it was for the proceedings of a particular conference | 11:54 |
| pmetzger | peer review in general. | 11:54 |
| pmetzger | the intersection is, IMHO, the future. | 11:55 |
| pmetzger | lack of open access slows scientific progress. | 11:55 |
| pmetzger | people should make their raw data etc. available too. | 11:55 |
| bdesk | i like a lot of things about academia, but the closedness of the journals is not one of them. | 11:55 |
| pmetzger | the journal publishing model is broken. | 11:56 |
| pmetzger | there are lots of good papers no one will ever read because they're locked inside journals that they can't get to. | 11:56 |
| pmetzger | so they re-do research that they could instead build on. | 11:56 |
| bdesk | honestly i think that redoing research is undervalued, but that is probably not a popular opinion in here. | 11:57 |
| kanzure | bdesk: sorry, but most research is not described adequately | 11:57 |
| pmetzger | reproducing research is undervalued. | 11:57 |
| pmetzger | redoing it as though it had never been done is different | 11:57 |
| pmetzger | research in some fields is reasonably well described. I never had much trouble trying to re-do organic chem procedures. | 11:58 |
| pmetzger | though more often than one expected they just failed utterly, probably because the original authors hadn't actually done what they thought they had. | 11:59 |
| pmetzger | or lied. | 11:59 |
| pmetzger | some journals are notorious for this... | 11:59 |
| pmetzger | bb later | 12:02 |
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| bdesk | "Determinants of the development time. Stage 1a: Brownian assembly of medium-scale blocks. Stage 1b: Mechanosynthetic assembly of small building blocks. Stage 2: First-generation solution-based systems. Stage 3: Inert environments, diamondoid materials." | 12:54 |
| bdesk | we are working on stage 1a, or this roadmap is no longer relevant? | 12:54 |
| kanzure | 1a sounds like something i've seen a few times | 12:58 |
| kanzure | like brownian assembly of jigsaw puzzle pieces on a microscopic scale | 12:58 |
| JayDugger | Anyone here ever | 13:00 |
| JayDugger | whoops. | 13:00 |
| JayDugger | Sorry: hit "enter" instead of "delete." | 13:00 |
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| JayDugger | kanzure--do you use UZBL? | 13:12 |
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| kanzure | JayDugger: actually, no, but i should be using it. | 13:25 |
| kanzure | i think ybit or jrayhawk might be using uzbl | 13:25 |
| ybit | kanzure's answer for me | 13:26 |
| JayDugger | Ah. | 13:27 |
| ybit | it is used on occassion when i want a quick answer and don't want to wait on firefox's tabs to load | 13:27 |
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| JayDugger | I finally have a Fingerworks keyboard again reliably working with my desktop. | 13:28 |
| JayDugger | Unfortunately--this breaks a favorite FF extension, LoL, which assigns numbers to links while you hold down a user-defined key. (defaults to space) | 13:29 |
| kanzure | JayDugger: konqueror has a similar feature (for number links) | 13:29 |
| kanzure | i wrote a greasemonkey script once to do that in firefox, specifically for google results | 13:30 |
| kanzure | and then used an autoscroll feature :P | 13:30 |
| brunsgenus | I wanted to get that keyboard for severe arthritis | 13:30 |
| JayDugger | I suspect the Fingerworks keyboard sends key-down and key-up as soon as you touch the key. | 13:30 |
| JayDugger | yeah, they were totally worth it. | 13:30 |
| JayDugger | Much cheaper than surgery. | 13:30 |
| JayDugger | This breaks LoL, but my alternatives are all relatively over-powered: vimperator, keysnail, or so on. | 13:31 |
| JayDugger | UZBL kept coming up in searches, so I thought I'd ask about it here. | 13:32 |
| bdesk | which keyboard is good? i am using the dell one that came with my desktop and i will get rsi before my dissertation is finished. | 13:32 |
| kanzure | bdesk: i like the old IBM Model M's | 13:32 |
| brunsgenus | http://www.alphagrips.com/frontbigdummmy.jpg | 13:32 |
| kanzure | http://www.mikecase.net/ModelM/IBM-Model-M-Keyboard.jpg | 13:32 |
| JayDugger | Assuming you don't want to get a specialty keyboard? | 13:32 |
| bdesk | i will google the fingerworks one. | 13:32 |
| JayDugger | Don't waste your time unless you've several hundred dollars to buy one on eBay. | 13:33 |
| JayDugger | They went out of production some years ago. | 13:33 |
| bdesk | oh they are out of business | 13:33 |
| brunsgenus | http://grinandlearnit.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/right-hand-keyboard.jpg | 13:33 |
| JayDugger | No. Apple bought them. | 13:33 |
| JayDugger | all kinds of specialty keyboards exist. | 13:34 |
| bdesk | they have "ceased operations as a business" | 13:34 |
| brunsgenus | the ultimate form of laziness: http://cybernetnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/03/OddKeyboard.jpg | 13:34 |
| kanzure | brunsgenus: that's called "the data hand" | 13:34 |
| JayDugger | I like the Kensington keyboards. | 13:35 |
| brunsgenus | its called i love being lazy | 13:35 |
| kanzure | i want to try accelerometer fingertips :/ | 13:36 |
| kanzure | at some ridiculously high sampling rate | 13:36 |
| JayDugger | You'll have to test keyboards to fund where your budget and wrists intersect. | 13:36 |
| JayDugger | Anyhow, back to cutting down a tree. | 13:37 |
| JayDugger | Good afternoon, everyone. | 13:37 |
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| bdesk | i wish that the enthough hackers would improve python's packaging system rather than create their own enthought python distribution. | 14:10 |
| bdesk | enthought* | 14:11 |
| brunsgenus | I wish I could find a pet store or someone selling this fucking jellyfish | 14:12 |
| fenn | power rangers was the weaksauce american clone of the much cooler japanese show | 14:13 |
| brunsgenus | america>japan | 14:16 |
| brunsgenus | therefore anything it makes its better than japan's | 14:16 |
| bdesk | brunsgenus: you want to get pluripotency like christopher reeve http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/153890 | 14:19 |
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| fenn | i'm so disappointed that nobody's bothered to scan and upload nanosystems | 14:40 |
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| bdesk | but then how would eric drexler make monies? | 14:43 |
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| fenn | i hope you're not being serious | 14:50 |
| bdesk | "Never a rich man, Drexler is barely solvent. He recently moved from his three-bedroom ranch house in Silicon Valley into a modest apartment." | 14:51 |
| fenn | yeah well people buying $3 books on amazon isn't gonna change that | 14:51 |
| bdesk | lord british made hundreds of thousands in high school selling $5 disks | 14:51 |
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| bdesk | wired magazine seems to give drexler crap for showing most of the machinery in this picture as smooth surfaces instead of as molecules http://www.wired.com/wired/images.html?issue=12.10&topic=drexler&img=2 | 15:28 |
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| brunsgenus | lol | 15:34 |
| brunsgenus | my fraternity brother got mad at me | 15:34 |
| brunsgenus | apparantly he started an iphone repair business and i didnt know he owned it and i put on it that you could do it for free and get the instructions off of the internet | 15:35 |
| bdesk | for blowing all your frat beer funds on jellyfishes? | 15:35 |
| brunsgenus | >frat | 15:35 |
| brunsgenus | lol | 15:35 |
| brunsgenus | also bdesk i would never waste beer money | 15:36 |
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| kanzure | comments on sonia arrison's article: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1483328 | 15:42 |
| brunsgenus | "Ex-bio engineer here. I do not think the DIY bio community exists or will ever gain traction. " | 15:44 |
| bdesk | i think the article read too much like a press release about what the 'biohacker' community wishes it was, so the comments are backlash. | 15:45 |
| brunsgenus | eh | 15:45 |
| brunsgenus | fuck them | 15:45 |
| brunsgenus | I don't see why what they say matters.... | 15:45 |
| bdesk | brunsgenus: agreed! | 15:46 |
| brunsgenus | Honestly the only thing that makes experimenting at home difficult is funding. People can pool money together to make a collaborative team and then money is no longer an issue. | 15:47 |
| brunsgenus | Also the permits is an issue but rules are meant to be broken. | 15:47 |
| brunsgenus | are an issue* | 15:48 |
| brunsgenus | bdesk: if you want, I might be able to get people to take this site offline if you want | 15:48 |
| bdesk | O_O | 15:49 |
| brunsgenus | wat | 15:49 |
| fenn | not "the only thing" - acquiring reagents and biotech stuff is not straightforward outside of an institution | 15:49 |
| brunsgenus | yeah i guess | 15:49 |
| brunsgenus | I am just getting into this stuff anyhow. | 15:50 |
| kanzure | german podcast on biohacking http://chaosradio.ccc.de/cre143.html | 15:50 |
| fenn | brunsgenus: you were suggesting ddos'ing ycombinator because of some comments you disagreed with? | 15:50 |
| brunsgenus | fenn, I never said such thing. | 15:51 |
| bdesk | http://www.wired.com/wired/images.html?issue=12.10&topic=drexler&img=2 | 15:51 |
| bdesk | oops | 15:51 |
| bdesk | Biohacking ist noch eine recht neue Disziplin bei der alternativen Erforschung unserer Welt. | 15:51 |
| kanzure | in related news, it was sonia arrison who wrote the article that Hacker News is replying to | 15:51 |
| brunsgenus | >doesn't speak german | 15:51 |
| kanzure | sonia recently dropped off of the humanity+ board of directors because of sexism | 15:51 |
| cluckj | Ex-bio engineer here. I do not think the DIY bio community exists or will ever gain traction. For one, I don't understand how someone could do labwork in their garage. Two I don't understand how people could afford mandatory tools like PCR machines. Three, the results from your labor don't seem tangible or exciting. At least with the computer hacking movement in the 60s and 70s you could hold a computer in your hand, you could see | 15:53 |
| cluckj | improvements in speed and performance as you tinkered. When programming, the output of your code would be realized relatively quickly. Bio is too complicated, too tedious, and too expensive to ever be fun or support a hacker community. | 15:53 |
| cluckj | I can't tell if that's a troll or not | 15:53 |
| bdesk | i doubt it is a troll. | 15:54 |
| cluckj | I really think it might be | 15:54 |
| brunsgenus | I don't think it is a troll, trolls don't get involved in this stuff from what I have seen. | 15:54 |
| cluckj | a pcr isn't a mandatory machine | 15:54 |
| cluckj | the dudes who invented pcr did it by hand | 15:54 |
| cluckj | and uh | 15:55 |
| cluckj | there's a pretty big hacker community | 15:55 |
| bdesk | i'm not saying i agree with the comment. | 15:55 |
| cluckj | haha | 15:55 |
| kanzure | "I'm guessing this is on the heals of the Kickstarter Bio-Incubator post from before. It's an interesting concept. You might want to check out: DIYbio.org for information on the capital efficient biotech movement." - nick pinkston (cloudfab.com guy) | 15:55 |
| cluckj | :) | 15:55 |
| kanzure | "diybio.org for information on the capital efficient biotech movement" | 15:55 |
| kanzure | what a load of fucking shit | 15:55 |
| kanzure | fenn: diybio.org has turned into a "capital efficient biotech movement" | 15:56 |
| kanzure | :( | 15:56 |
| bdesk | that is instead of saying "poor man's biotech movement" | 15:56 |
| bdesk | capital efficient is a euphemism. | 15:56 |
| cluckj | lol | 15:56 |
| kanzure | bdesk: what's happening behind the scenes is everyone is making a "diybio startup" | 15:56 |
| fenn | well at least they didn't say 'organization' | 15:56 |
| cluckj | there's plenty of organization | 15:57 |
| fenn | oo i wanna do a diybio startup too me me me me | 15:57 |
| cluckj | boston and nyc have been going for at least 2 years | 15:57 |
| fenn | they've barely (if at all) progressed beyond the meetup group stage | 15:58 |
| fenn | might have even gone backwards | 15:58 |
| fenn | i havent been keeping track the last few months | 15:58 |
| bdesk | kanzure: well if the diy bio really wants to be like the homebrew club as its PR suggests, then you can't be surprised that people are wanting to make startups as the next step. it works with the analogy. | 15:58 |
| cluckj | I've been keeping track fora while | 15:58 |
| kanzure | fenn: all that talk in the thermocyclers thread from back in 2008 or ealrly 2009 went absolutely nowhere | 15:58 |
| kanzure | and instead, tito jankowski decided to take the opposite of everyone's advice | 15:59 |
| cluckj | and been pestering mac to have regular meetings | 15:59 |
| kanzure | bdesk: i'm not surprised.. just a little upset that most of these people are better at PR than actually doing shit | 15:59 |
| kanzure | "oh let's make it a business" uh, no, how about you demonstrate you're not a moron? | 15:59 |
| cluckj | I'm not sure diy bio is like the homebrew computer club | 16:00 |
| bdesk | maybe the ones doing the PR and marketing are just the most visible by their nature? | 16:00 |
| kanzure | bdesk: so? | 16:00 |
| kanzure | the guys who are good at doing stuff are not the ones doing the "diybio startups" ;) | 16:00 |
| cluckj | haha | 16:00 |
| cluckj | kanzure that's not true! | 16:00 |
| kanzure | cluckj: orly | 16:00 |
| cluckj | there's a couple people in boston who are doing some Serious Shit | 16:01 |
| kanzure | let's hear it, then. | 16:01 |
| bdesk | they probably have huge plans. | 16:01 |
| kanzure | an iphone being hooked up to a microscope is not Serious Shit | 16:01 |
| cluckj | http://www.keegotech.com/ | 16:01 |
| kanzure | no content on the site | 16:02 |
| cluckj | oh | 16:02 |
| cluckj | haha he doesn't have it setup yet | 16:02 |
| bdesk | "battery that runs on dirt" | 16:02 |
| cluckj | he's doing microbial fuel cell stuff | 16:02 |
| kanzure | meh | 16:02 |
| cluckj | I think Ian_Daniher is doing things too | 16:02 |
| kanzure | i don't think you understand | 16:02 |
| kanzure | these are companies | 16:02 |
| cluckj | his company is run out of his basement iirc | 16:03 |
| bdesk | I remember a feynman interview when he was brought to a military meeting and they asked him how they could make their tanks run on dirt as fuel. | 16:03 |
| kanzure | cluckj: you can run a company anywhere | 16:03 |
| cluckj | what do you mean? | 16:03 |
| cluckj | well | 16:04 |
| cluckj | I mean if you don't mean companies, then what? | 16:04 |
| kanzure | i thought we were talking about diybio | 16:05 |
| cluckj | yes | 16:05 |
| cluckj | he comes to DIY Bio meetings | 16:05 |
| kanzure | sigh | 16:05 |
| cluckj | oh | 16:05 |
| cluckj | I see what you mean | 16:05 |
| kanzure | it's just a little back stabbing i guess | 16:06 |
| cluckj | I think diy bio is too loose an organization right now to really be doing things together | 16:06 |
| cluckj | yeah | 16:06 |
| cluckj | they're getting there, though | 16:06 |
| kanzure | if i would have known that the majority of the diybio community was just "capital efficient biotech industry" in disguise, i would have only peripherally involed myself | 16:06 |
| kanzure | *involved | 16:06 |
| fenn | i love the follow up comments to "ex-bio engineer here" | 16:06 |
| cluckj | haha | 16:06 |
| cluckj | kanzure then make it something else :) | 16:06 |
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| kanzure | cluckj: mac and jason have successfully "latched down" the brand | 16:07 |
| cluckj | yeah | 16:07 |
| cluckj | they're getting down on it even more lately | 16:07 |
| kanzure | i mean, in a way, this explains a lot of the weird social behaivor in the community | 16:08 |
| kanzure | like why everyone does projects "in secrecy" | 16:08 |
| kanzure | it's because they are trying to do a company.. | 16:08 |
| kanzure | and are not really interested in just being the best they can be | 16:08 |
| kanzure | frankly it's just all a little misleading | 16:09 |
| kanzure | not everyone is like this, of course. | 16:09 |
| cluckj | hehe | 16:09 |
| cluckj | that's kinda depressing if it's true | 16:10 |
| kanzure | cluckj: from an anthropological perspective, you should be aware that the community didn't form around the idea of starting companies and holding secrets against each other | 16:10 |
| kanzure | just fyi. | 16:10 |
| cluckj | kanzure well... | 16:10 |
| cluckj | not entirely | 16:10 |
| cluckj | it does have a strain of "profiteering" in it | 16:10 |
| kanzure | hm? | 16:10 |
| bdesk | it looks like diy bio was a success and now it will have some IPOs! | 16:11 |
| kanzure | bdesk: hah, no. | 16:11 |
| cluckj | it's tempered by the presence of open-sourceness | 16:11 |
| cluckj | lol | 16:11 |
| kanzure | cluckj: i think that might be just because of me yelling at the top of my youngs | 16:11 |
| kanzure | *lungs | 16:11 |
| cluckj | haha | 16:11 |
| cluckj | don't be so modest :P | 16:11 |
| kanzure | only a few people on the mailing list have ever actually commited code to an open source project | 16:11 |
| kanzure | meredith, len, jonathan cline, i'm definitely missing a few | 16:12 |
| cluckj | open-source doesn't have to mean F/OSS | 16:12 |
| kanzure | cluckj: uh.. | 16:12 |
| kanzure | well if we're working on the OSI definitions it does. | 16:12 |
| kanzure | in 2008 i wrote a long email about this | 16:12 |
| cluckj | openwetware is an example | 16:12 |
| kanzure | openwetware is just a wiki with a bad name | 16:12 |
| cluckj | not a very useful place, though | 16:12 |
| bdesk | cluckj: you mean the creative commons licenses? | 16:13 |
| cluckj | yes | 16:13 |
| cluckj | diy bio is still in its infancy | 16:13 |
| fenn | god would you guys please talk about something useful | 16:13 |
| kanzure | cluckj: i'd like to go on record saying you're wrong. :P | 16:14 |
| cluckj | kanzure k :) | 16:14 |
| kanzure | i'll stop now | 16:14 |
| fenn | cluckj: do you have any closing comments? | 16:14 |
| cluckj | kanzure why? | 16:14 |
| kanzure | cluckj: because i know you're bullshitting, heh | 16:14 |
| bdesk | that is not a closing comment lol | 16:14 |
| kanzure | or maybe you're not exposed to the same set of information that i am | 16:15 |
| cluckj | ehhh, I might be, but I'm not sure how much | 16:15 |
| cluckj | yeah | 16:15 |
| cluckj | you've been around for longer than I have | 16:15 |
| cluckj | we should have a chat sometime about the history of diy bio :D | 16:16 |
| kanzure | at first i was complaining about how i was systematically excluded from stuff.. but then fenn convinced me it didn't matter | 16:16 |
| kanzure | or something :P | 16:16 |
| cluckj | haha | 16:16 |
| fenn | i have poor memory | 16:17 |
| fenn | but i dont see how being involved in openpcr or whatever would have mattered | 16:17 |
| bdesk | kanzure: they exclude you because you put your sekrits on the internets. | 16:17 |
| kanzure | my precious sekrits?! | 16:17 |
| cluckj | not ur sekrits........ | 16:17 |
| fenn | my precious openpcr secrets! | 16:17 |
| kanzure | hahah | 16:18 |
| kanzure | fenn: openpcr got over-funded via kickstarter, btw | 16:18 |
| kanzure | http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/930368578/openpcr-open-source-biotech-on-your-desktop | 16:18 |
| kanzure | $10k instead of the $6k they asked for | 16:18 |
| cluckj | oh damn | 16:18 |
| kanzure | kickstarten mah .. i can't even do it. | 16:19 |
| kanzure | they don't even release designs | 16:19 |
| kanzure | http://openpcr.org/build-yours/ | 16:19 |
| cluckj | if they get that working, and open-sourced, then I'll take back saying that diy bio is in its infancy | 16:19 |
| kanzure | "openpcr" my butt. openbutt | 16:19 |
| cluckj | I'm not opening your butt | 16:19 |
| kanzure | cluckj: see also http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/peyer/hello-world-modern-biotechnology-for-high-schools?pos=52&ref=popular | 16:20 |
| kanzure | http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1040581998/biocurious-a-hackerspace-for-biotech-the-community | 16:20 |
| kanzure | http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/405545346/lasersaur-open-source-laser-cutter-0 | 16:20 |
| cluckj | lol | 16:20 |
| kanzure | http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/701662757/makerbeam-an-open-source-building-kit?pos=1 | 16:20 |
| cluckj | gfp in e coli isn't revolutionary | 16:20 |
| kanzure | $18k pledged of $10k goal? | 16:20 |
| kanzure | neither is a thermocycler.. especially a giant hunk of metal | 16:20 |
| cluckj | carolina biological sells a kit for that on the cheap | 16:20 |
| kanzure | cluckj: all that the community was supposedly doing was write instructions and designs and plans for building equipment | 16:21 |
| kanzure | but instead we have people doing this totally round-about way | 16:21 |
| kanzure | of starting a company, raising money via kickstarter, on the *chance* that they will release some usable design files | 16:21 |
| cluckj | hrm | 16:21 |
| kanzure | but knowing tito, it's probably just shit in Google Sketchup | 16:21 |
| bdesk | maybe it will be animated. | 16:22 |
| kanzure | hah | 16:22 |
| kanzure | bdesk: doing a dance? | 16:22 |
| bdesk | dancing pcr | 16:22 |
| cluckj | awesome | 16:22 |
| bdesk | it could be the corporate logo for their new corp | 16:22 |
| kanzure | bdesk: http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q116/Moochamoocha/Funny_Pictures_Animated_Dancing_Ban.gif | 16:23 |
| cluckj | also does anyone know when people started using biocurious? | 16:23 |
| kanzure | cluckj: 'using'? what? | 16:23 |
| cluckj | where did that come from | 16:23 |
| kanzure | biocurious.org was registered 2009-12-10 | 16:23 |
| cluckj | hah | 16:23 |
| kanzure | joseph jackson came up with the name | 16:23 |
| kanzure | but it sprouted out of livly.org | 16:23 |
| cluckj | my friend grant used "bio-curious" back in 2008 | 16:24 |
| kanzure | which has gone commercial.. it says it's a non-profit... but yeah. | 16:24 |
| kanzure | cluckj: oh? that's neat | 16:24 |
| cluckj | when joe started talking about it we were laughing | 16:24 |
| kanzure | i suspect 'biocurious' is one of those things in the subconcious or something | 16:24 |
| cluckj | yeah | 16:24 |
| kanzure | or maybe he directly stole it | 16:24 |
| kanzure | 'stole' | 16:24 |
| cluckj | whatever, it's hilarious no matter who says it | 16:24 |
| * kanzure nods | 16:25 | |
| cluckj | I doubt he stole it, nobody read that blog he posted it on except for jason bobe | 16:25 |
| kanzure | eri is stalking me on the web, i think | 16:28 |
| kanzure | she has some weird thing against me | 16:28 |
| kanzure | http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1486565 | 16:28 |
| cluckj | weird | 16:29 |
| kanzure | quite telling when people sign their names with "cofounder" instead of "maker" or something | 16:29 |
| cluckj | lol | 16:29 |
| fenn | if somebody posted my project to hacker news i'd probably say something too | 16:29 |
| cluckj | $200/mo is ridiculous imo | 16:29 |
| kanzure | cluckj: agreed | 16:29 |
| kanzure | i also think $30k is ridiculous | 16:30 |
| fenn | why is it ridiculous? | 16:30 |
| fenn | gotta deal with landlords and renovate buildings and all that | 16:30 |
| kanzure | if you're targetting individuals, you should keep costs down | 16:30 |
| cluckj | yes | 16:30 |
| fenn | i dont really see how that's possible | 16:31 |
| fenn | i mean, cost per month is basically $2k/n | 16:31 |
| fenn | minimum | 16:32 |
| kanzure | nobody said the gym membership model was a good idea | 16:32 |
| kanzure | it was quite peculiar actually | 16:32 |
| kanzure | joseph was *very* against the idea of charging membership fees | 16:32 |
| kanzure | until he started to be a part of biocurious | 16:32 |
| fenn | how do you fund it then? | 16:33 |
| kanzure | well, originally part of the biocurious idea was to be a biotech incubator | 16:33 |
| fenn | well apparently that didnt happne | 16:33 |
| kanzure | yeah.. | 16:33 |
| fenn | i mean, VC doesn't carea | 16:33 |
| fenn | care* | 16:33 |
| kanzure | there's shitloads of biotech VC :P | 16:33 |
| kanzure | you could easily make an argument that it would be better if different startups were working in the same biotech dev house | 16:34 |
| fenn | they want a business plan, estimated quarterly earnings projections, etc etc | 16:34 |
| fenn | to VC "collaboration" means "IP loss" | 16:35 |
| bdesk | hacker news is by a guy who has that kind of model going on with software startups right? | 16:35 |
| kanzure | bdesk: yes, it's called ycombinator | 16:35 |
| bdesk | i mean the multiple startups in the same dev house | 16:35 |
| kanzure | i don't know if they physically work in the same location | 16:35 |
| kanzure | but you can ask in #startups (that's where all the yc-funded peeps hang out) | 16:36 |
| fenn | they do | 16:36 |
| fenn | i should go over there some time, it's like a block away | 16:36 |
| kanzure | yes, you should | 16:36 |
| kanzure | a lot of them are totally orgasmic over your data logging, btw | 16:36 |
| fenn | o rly | 16:36 |
| kanzure | fenn: "IP loss".. blah | 16:37 |
| kanzure | aren't we.. uh.. er.. doesn't joseph go around talking about why IP is so terrible? | 16:37 |
| fenn | lol "Git for Computer Scientists" | 16:37 |
| fenn | yeah, joseph is juggling a few different hats | 16:38 |
| fenn | or at least that's my impression | 16:38 |
| bdesk | nice metaphors lol | 16:38 |
| kanzure | fenn: have you visited halycon molecular yet? | 16:38 |
| fenn | no, i dont care about halcyon | 16:39 |
| kanzure | any particular reason? i applaud your decision for various reasons | 16:39 |
| fenn | 1) sfw, an electron microscope, woo. 2) what relationship do i have with them 3) sequencing is already good enough | 16:39 |
| kanzure | either they are really good at publicity or something's actually going on there worth knowing about (more than TEM/STM/AFM-based DNA sequencing) | 16:40 |
| kanzure | not sure why they are so well funded, either | 16:40 |
| kanzure | fenn: while i'm nagging you about bay area stuff i should mention that on tuesday mac and eri gentry are doing a diybio session for singularity university | 16:42 |
| kanzure | HA the number of folks with the passwords 'singularity2035' and 'infomorph' in the community is staggering | 16:43 |
| bdesk | i don't know what halcyon is, but sequencing is not already good enough. | 16:48 |
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| kanzure | halycon is a "super secret" company doing electron microscopy for DNA sequencing | 16:48 |
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| fenn | what is "infomorph" from? | 16:54 |
| bdesk | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infomorph | 16:55 |
| bdesk | http://med.stanford.edu/sgtc/journal_club/talk_andregg.html | 16:55 |
| bdesk | i see that they hope this will do 150kb at a time. this is a big deal compared to the 'next gen' (last gen) sequencing that do short reads. | 16:55 |
| bdesk | also they will try to get the methyl modification (epigenetic modification) of the genome. | 16:56 |
| bdesk | and there is hoped to be no haplotyping problem. | 16:56 |
| bdesk | and they hype a speed of 6 min / genome. | 16:57 |
| cluckj | lol | 16:57 |
| bdesk | if all of these happen, then it would be a useful improvement over the current sequencing. | 16:57 |
| fenn | dunno how you would deal with that much data | 16:58 |
| bdesk | maybe if they build it, it will come. | 16:58 |
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| brunsgenus | fuuuuck | 17:02 |
| brunsgenus | http://www.movies-links.tv/index.html | 17:03 |
| brunsgenus | wtf is this faggotry?! | 17:03 |
| lepton | wtf indeed | 17:04 |
| QuantumG | so it's been 4 years since the Genomics X-Prize was announced.. they've now got a sponsor, Archon, there's 8 registered teams.. the deadline is late 2013.. I wonder when this race is actually gunna start. | 17:05 |
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| bdesk | QuantumG: there was an internets rant about how they measure the 'cost' which is part of the condition of winning. | 17:06 |
| bdesk | i think it's stupid to have a contest where part of the condition is the cost, unless you do it like stock cars or something. | 17:07 |
| bdesk | so therefore i think that the genomics xprize is stupid. | 17:07 |
| QuantumG | what's "recurring cost" mean? | 17:07 |
| bdesk | i think they should just have a standing offer to sign a contract with any company that will do X genomes with Y quality for Z dollars in W time. | 17:08 |
| bdesk | if the company fails then sue them like with a normal contract. | 17:08 |
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| QuantumG | if by recurring cost they mean marginal cost then I think they're being generous. I don't think a genome sequencing machine should cost more than a few $ of electricity to do a genome. | 17:10 |
| bdesk | the conditions of the contest are crap | 17:11 |
| QuantumG | why? cause it's hard? | 17:11 |
| bdesk | no, because it is poorly defined. | 17:11 |
| bdesk | anyway i already said how i think they should go about this if their goal is to spur gene sequencing research by giving money away. | 17:13 |
| QuantumG | meh, when you've proven you can spur innovation I'm sure the folks with the money will listen to you. | 17:14 |
| bdesk | yes, and if i'm so smart why am i not rich, etc. | 17:16 |
| QuantumG | http://www.politigenomics.com/2010/06/the-cost-of-doing-sequencing.html | 17:16 |
| kristianpaul | kanzure: hey | 17:17 |
| kristianpaul | are you followting qi mail list? | 17:17 |
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| kristianpaul | if, i think you should reply the thread about 3D scanning and formats | 17:17 |
| kristianpaul | :) | 17:17 |
| bdesk | QuantumG: that is the rant i was thinking of. | 17:18 |
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| QuantumG | I'm sure its a case of damned if you do and damned if you don't. One of my biggest announces of the Ansari X-Prize was that Rutan spent $20M to win a $10M prize and then never flew a single commercial customer. | 17:19 |
| QuantumG | annoyances* | 17:20 |
| bdesk | hah | 17:20 |
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| kanzure | http://kurzweilai.net/ has a new look | 17:48 |
| fenn | this is cool, photos of families around the world sitting next to a week's groceries http://www.time.com/time/photogallery/0,29307,1626519_1373664,00.html | 18:04 |
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| fenn | i wonder how rob carlson manages to get into a series of presentations with drew endy, bonnie bassler, craig venter, and george church | 19:14 |
| fenn | like, who the hell is rob carlson? | 19:14 |
| cluckj | who the hell is craig venter | 19:15 |
| fenn | President Obama's Bioethics Commission is July 8-9 in Washington DC. | 19:16 |
| fenn | craig venter at least seems to have done something | 19:16 |
| cluckj | oh dear | 19:17 |
| cluckj | I forgot about that | 19:17 |
| bdesk | http://www.synthesis.cc/bio.html | 19:17 |
| bdesk | he is probably a good speaker. | 19:17 |
| bdesk | even if i did a good research i would not be invited to this kind of thing because talk like a nerd | 19:18 |
| cluckj | hehe | 19:19 |
| fenn | anyone ever heard of "rainbow mansion"? | 19:36 |
| fenn | just wondering if i'm going to be stumbling into a den of vampires | 19:37 |
| bdesk | no and i am afraid to google it | 19:38 |
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| genehacker | I'd be more worried about the twilight fans fenn, I hear they bite | 20:10 |
| fenn | kinky | 20:18 |
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| genehacker | I also hear they have a hatred of P2P | 21:03 |
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| kanzure | fenn: rob carlson is an ass. i think that's why. | 21:29 |
| kanzure | `Biology "apps" could give you the ability to jump higher, run faster, grow stronger and live longer. They could even make us smarter.` | 21:34 |
| AJollyLife | id buy those apps | 21:36 |
| kanzure | look out for my diyhplus app platform | 21:38 |
| kanzure | you know, the best thing that could happen to aubrey right now | 21:42 |
| kanzure | is probably a fake death | 21:42 |
| kanzure | "life extension researcher dies in horrible, flaming death" | 21:42 |
| kanzure | then two weeks later "life extension researcher beats odds" | 21:42 |
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| JayDugger | Good morning, everyone. | 22:00 |
| Utopiah | 'ning | 22:01 |
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| Bruns | oh hai | 22:41 |
| AJollyLife | nah, that would be force field researcher... | 22:45 |
| Bruns | wat | 22:46 |
| AJollyLife | that was from an earlier conversation | 22:46 |
| AJollyLife | whats up? | 22:46 |
| fenn | "life extension researcher extends life. today, in what would have otherwise been a horrible flaming death, aubrey degrey decided not to cook scrambled eggs, and instead took the dog for a walk." | 22:46 |
| Bruns | nothing | 22:47 |
| Bruns | just sitting around | 22:47 |
| Bruns | so even though the whole jellyfish thing seems silly to you all i have a friend who is going to attempt to research this with me | 22:47 |
| Bruns | I am in contact with a store that sells jellyfish that will be sending me the jellyfish soon, shits SO cash | 22:48 |
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| Bruns | durp | 23:17 |
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| niftyzero1 | http://www.brainpreservation.org/index.php?path=letter | 23:19 |
| niftyzero1 | sign! | 23:19 |
| Bruns | whats it for | 23:19 |
| Bruns | I don't read | 23:19 |
| Bruns | I just act | 23:19 |
| niftyzero1 | alternative to cryonics by using plastic infusion | 23:20 |
| Bruns | its asking for me to donate money I don't have, thus inhibiting me from signing... | 23:21 |
| Bruns | sorry | 23:21 |
| niftyzero1 | you don't need to donate | 23:22 |
| Bruns | actually, it goes from $2-$100 | 23:23 |
| Bruns | no $0 | 23:23 |
| niftyzero1 | ? I don't get any donation request... the petition link goes to: http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/brainpreservation/ | 23:24 |
| niftyzero1 | I just see Name, Email, Comments | 23:24 |
| niftyzero1 | what page did you end up on? | 23:24 |
| Bruns | oh, at the top it says the signature was recorded...way way up where it is hard to notice | 23:24 |
| Bruns | then in the center of the page it is asking for donations | 23:25 |
| niftyzero1 | ah... I guess they are being a bit aggressive with panhandling... | 23:25 |
| Bruns | yeah, it seems kinda cheap | 23:25 |
| Bruns | makes me want to take my signature back, almost | 23:26 |
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