| --- Log opened Tue Jul 27 00:00:17 2010 | ||
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| kanzure | looks like i'm speaking at transvision this year | 00:26 |
|---|---|---|
| kanzure | milano, italy here i come? | 00:26 |
| splicer | sounds nice | 00:35 |
| fenn | (the guy who visited eri's garagelab was guido from venezuela) <- guido nunez-mujica | 00:45 |
| fenn | erf.. | 00:45 |
| fenn | ok nevermind, i'm not competent to think atm | 00:46 |
| fenn | splicer you're going to be in berkeley? | 00:47 |
| splicer | no, that's meredith | 00:47 |
| splicer | I showed that to a friend who is something of an authority in local hacker culture. His comment was "So, you're pissing in the meme pool now? Congratulations" | 00:51 |
| splicer | Actually it was the same guy who pointed me to iGEM in the first place, it was alway associated to hacker culture for me... we don't really have the DIY/maker culture. | 01:13 |
| splicer | here DIY is more associated to growing your own vegetables and that sort of thing. | 01:13 |
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| patrickmclaren | oh great, aiming for 2500 is he | 05:29 |
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| patrickmclaren | just finished editing a lecture for SIAI | 06:02 |
| patrickmclaren | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LjdRHfaDzc | 06:02 |
| patrickmclaren | youtube is still processing so quality is still pretty bad | 06:02 |
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| Utopiah | transcript available? | 06:18 |
| Utopiah | (maybe the blog article covers it all, would be nice to have YouTube deep links then) | 06:18 |
| splicer | short version: "A belief system should be falsifiable" | 06:19 |
| * Utopiah has a hard time reading more than 1 paragraph or listen to a video more than 5min long without an explicit outline | 06:19 | |
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| kanzure | http://www.tmplab.org/wiki/index.php/BioHacklab | 10:34 |
| kanzure | http://mauimakers.com/ is jerry isdale in hawaii | 10:44 |
| kanzure | fenn: are you still offering me a place to sleep for a few days? | 10:46 |
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| kanzure | egeste: are you around? | 11:11 |
| kanzure | http://www.kurzweilai.net/from-diy-to-diwo-biohackers-synthetic-biologists-and-fbi-to-dialogue-at-open-science-summit) | 11:18 |
| kanzure | http://www.kurzweilai.net/forums/topic/biohackers-synthetic-biologists-and-the-fbi | 11:18 |
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| pmetzger | I was unaware of diylilcnc before now. | 11:53 |
| pmetzger | the meme is spreading. | 11:53 |
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| Utopiah | (An Introduction to Firefox's Tab Candy on Vimeo http://vimeo.com/13560319 by Aza Raskin) I think it's a bad idea but some people could like it | 12:55 |
| kanzure | fyi adl.serveftp.org is no more (i think) | 13:01 |
| kanzure | i forgot to log into the dyndns account in time | 13:01 |
| kanzure | ok adl.serveftp.org is backup and operational | 13:17 |
| kanzure | does anyone know what "Instant Immersion.zip" is doing in /var/www/ on davinci? it seems to have been created by campbell | 13:17 |
| kanzure | but the file is a broken zip file | 13:17 |
| patrickmclaren | Utopiah: http://lesswrong.com/lw/i3/making_beliefs_pay_rent_in_anticipated_experiences/ | 13:20 |
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| fenn | kanzure sure, we may even have a tent-like thing for you if you're lucky | 13:38 |
| fenn | here's some math candy for y'all | 13:39 |
| fenn | http://dojo-cs-theory-circle.googlegroups.com/web/negabinary_talk.pdf?hl=en&gda=pZNeZUYAAAB7jwefurHp9i4WOCQ2DNwICzHyTjFon0vgscCSANnb_2Bry0wGvKY-A-L8LUT1axW4qzmRyw7pERYbIIbTVVQIE-Ea7GxYMt0t6nY0uV5FIQ&gsc=e0bBuBgAAAAkFjxYrzg45BWXecucQSHFLfmonIH7kc9uuuK1xjSAVQ | 13:39 |
| fenn | ooh fat pipes here when nobody's using them | 13:40 |
| fenn | if that link didnt work: http://fennetic.net/irc/negabinary_talk.pdf | 13:40 |
| kanzure | speaking of math candy.. http://mathoverflow.net/ | 13:42 |
| kanzure | fenn: any suggestions for demos for my python/STEP library? so far i've been thinking: bolt, washer, bearings, airplane wing/foil, lead screw, toe clamp | 13:45 |
| kanzure | anything obvious that i'm missing out on? "hello world" stuff | 13:45 |
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| pmetzger | kanzure: how is your STEP library at this point? | 13:58 |
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| kanzure | pathetic but functional | 14:04 |
| kanzure | i think you underestimated the amount of time required to actually get the non-EXPRESS-based-version working | 14:04 |
| kanzure | :P | 14:04 |
| kanzure | but i think it's downhill from this point on (plus some time to rewrite the internals so that it doesn't make me puke to look at) | 14:05 |
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| fenn | a bolt would be super cool, if you can figure out how to do all that stuff | 14:09 |
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| pmetzger | well, did you end up using any of the python lexical analyzer/parser generator tools? | 14:31 |
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| kanzure | masked: no | 14:36 |
| kanzure | wtf | 14:36 |
| kanzure | pmetzger: no | 14:36 |
| kanzure | there we go :) | 14:36 |
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| pmetzger | it is easiest to parse large grammars using parser generators. | 14:43 |
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| gnusha | http://blog.reprap.org/2010/07/glow-in-dark-pla.html glow in the dark plastic | 14:48 |
| gnusha | designfiles.org looks down to me | 14:48 |
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| patrickmclaren | kanzure: that post for Pink Army Coop, http://pastebin.com/c04zPeuu | 16:11 |
| patrickmclaren | anything to change? | 16:11 |
| pmetzger | I think kanzure is not logged in. | 16:13 |
| patrickmclaren | oh, forgot to check.. thanks for that! | 16:13 |
| gnusha | nah i'm here | 16:16 |
| gnusha | patrickmclaren: you might want to add a question about "waiting for 2500 members" or something, or a comment about how you feel about "waiting for media promotion" versus "how about we just start doing this stuff now" | 16:17 |
| patrickmclaren | yeah I'll definitely add something about the 2500 members | 16:19 |
| pmetzger | ah. if you are around: my advice, if you're doing something that parses a complicated grammar, is to use the tools people make available for that. I think ANTLR will generate python code at this point... | 16:20 |
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| patrickmclaren | gnusha: posted it, still to be approved by mods though | 16:32 |
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| --- Log opened Tue Jul 27 16:55:43 2010 | ||
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| -!- Topic for #hplusroadmap: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-n39RK4inzg http://designfiles.org/~bryan/hplus-summit-2009/ http://heybryan.org/ | 16:56 | |
| -!- Topic set by kanzure [] [Mon Jan 11 11:14:52 2010] | 16:56 | |
| [Users #hplusroadmap] | 16:56 | |
| [ augur ] [ ENKI-][ ] [ Joeconyers ] [ mage2 ] [ Noahj ] [ QuantumG ] | 16:56 | |
| [ bkero ] [ eridu ] [ jrayhawk ] [ masked ] [ nsh_ ] [ shepazu ] | 16:56 | |
| [ CIA-51] [ ghchinoy ] [ kardan ] [ memenode ] [ Overand ] [ splicer ] | 16:56 | |
| [ clemux] [ gnusha ] [ kive ] [ nchaimov ] [ pasky_ ] [ streety1 ] | 16:56 | |
| [ drazak] [ gnusha_ ] [ klafka ] [ niftyzero ] [ patrickmclaren] [ superkuh ] | 16:56 | |
| [ egeste] [ guibou ] [ kristianpaul] [ niftyzero1] [ Phreedom ] [ ToyKeeper] | 16:56 | |
| [ elmom ] [ Ian_Daniher] [ kyb3R ] [ nima ] [ pmetzger ] [ Utopiah ] | 16:56 | |
| -!- Irssi: #hplusroadmap: Total of 42 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 42 normal] | 16:56 | |
| !holmes.freenode.net [freenode-info] if you're at a conference and other people are having trouble connecting, please mention it to staff: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#gettinghelp | 16:56 | |
| -!- Channel #hplusroadmap created Fri Jan 29 23:48:24 2010 | 16:56 | |
| -!- Irssi: Join to #hplusroadmap was synced in 1 secs | 16:56 | |
| gnusha | jrayhawk: is there a way to do http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-desktop-74/sharing-folders-between-two-linux-users-on-same-machine-read-write-execute-782258/ without setfacl? chmod g+s isn't sufficient apparently | 16:58 |
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| pmetzger | that seems like overkill. | 17:00 |
| pmetzger | two users on the box, just set the thing globally writable. | 17:00 |
| pmetzger | chmod -R ugo+rwX the directory. | 17:00 |
| gnusha | the end state is what i want.. the situation is different (say, more than two users) | 17:00 |
| pmetzger | I don't see how acls will help... | 17:00 |
| pmetzger | what is your precise application? | 17:00 |
| gnusha | also when you add files into it the files do not inherit the samee permissions | 17:00 |
| gnusha | permission inheritance between different users that don't understand permission models | 17:01 |
| pmetzger | what is the exact application? | 17:01 |
| gnusha | go away | 17:01 |
| jrayhawk | ACLs are the best way. There's also cron-based permissions fixing and wacky inotify solutions. | 17:01 |
| pmetzger | go away? | 17:01 |
| gnusha | cron seems lame for this | 17:02 |
| pmetzger | acls are rarely the best solution for anything. | 17:02 |
| pmetzger | inotify is probably overkill. cron every minute seems like it would probably work fine. | 17:02 |
| pmetzger | but the real question is what is being done. | 17:02 |
| pmetzger | though if you would really prefer that I leave, just confirm and I'll go. | 17:03 |
| pmetzger | eh, I'll just assume you meant it. bye. | 17:03 |
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| jrayhawk | There are lamer approaches. For instance, you can use a filesystem that doesn't support GIDs and mount it to a specific GID and umask. | 17:04 |
| gnusha | what's up with pmetzger? | 17:06 |
| jrayhawk | he's been spurned :( | 17:07 |
| jrayhawk | I also like forcing people to use git for object storage. | 17:08 |
| jrayhawk | But the feasibility of that depends on your usage model. | 17:09 |
| gnusha | this is one of those hopeless situations where you'd orgasm if you could even get them to use cvs | 17:09 |
| gnusha | but instead they are using shared ftp accounts on random shared file hosts or something | 17:10 |
| gnusha | for software development. | 17:10 |
| jrayhawk | aaaaaaa | 17:10 |
| jrayhawk | You could set up inotify to git commit every time they close a filehandle. | 17:11 |
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| jrayhawk | Is there a particular reason they're not using version control? | 17:15 |
| gnusha | incompetence | 17:15 |
| jrayhawk | TortoiseGit and TortoiseSVN, while a pain to set up, are fairly easy to use on Windows if it helps. | 17:16 |
| gnusha | it took me over 1.5 years to get a professor to use tortoisesvn | 17:16 |
| gnusha | (but then he learned to love it) | 17:16 |
| jrayhawk | Speaking of painful learning curves, is that Ikiwiki stuff working out for you? | 17:17 |
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| jrayhawk | I'd share with you the horror of our normal cron-based directory sharing approach, but cysteine appears to be down for some reason? I should probably go fix that. | 17:28 |
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| gnusha | ikiwiki stuff is working, yeah | 18:10 |
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| patrickmclaren | gnusha: http://groups.google.com/group/pink-army-cooperative/t/c899b8c38f735d6c | 18:17 |
| klafka | http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2010/07/pork-filled_cou.html | 18:17 |
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| patrickmclaren | kanzure: http://groups.google.com/group/pink-army-cooperative/t/c899b8c38f735d6c | 18:53 |
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| kanzure | patrickmclaren: yes i saw :) thanks for posting | 19:15 |
| kanzure | i just need to figure out what reply to write | 19:15 |
| kanzure | hello dizm | 19:15 |
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| mheld | anybody know of any dynamically reconfigurable computing platforms? | 19:47 |
| kanzure | FPGAs? | 19:51 |
| mheld | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reconfigurable_datapath_array | 19:51 |
| mheld | I'd like an FPGA that can be programming while it's running | 19:51 |
| mheld | but the closest one I can find is that, which doesn't seem to exist in real life | 19:51 |
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| Utopiah | mheld: OPGAs but they aren't really "real life" | 20:03 |
| Utopiah | and it's not really while it's running, it's fast but not real time | 20:04 |
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| Utopiah | cf http://www.erc.caltech.edu/Research02/reports/panotopoulos2full.html | 20:07 |
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| dizm | hi kanzura | 20:45 |
| dizm | kanzure, sorry | 20:45 |
| dizm | is heybryan.com broken? | 20:46 |
| fenn | it's heybryan.org | 20:58 |
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| fenn | i think the content of "open science summit" has mutated quite a bit since I first read the draft description | 21:06 |
| kanzure | gordon bell? | 21:19 |
| kanzure | jerry glenn? | 21:20 |
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| * fenn downloads mailing list archives.... | 21:24 | |
| kanzure | oh huh heybryan.org /is/ down | 21:26 |
| kanzure | dizm: it should be back up now | 21:27 |
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| fenn | compare the text here http://fenn.freeshell.org/oss2010_draft.txt with what's up now: http://opensciencesummit.com/about/ | 21:33 |
| fenn | they berkeley-ized it | 21:34 |
| kanzure | hehh | 21:43 |
| kanzure | pack vs. code | 21:51 |
| kanzure | it's a tough decision | 21:51 |
| fenn | Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad inaugurated a new policy on Tuesday to encourage population growth | 21:53 |
| fenn | $950 per kid | 21:54 |
| fenn | + $95/ye for 18 years | 21:54 |
| fenn | "Parents will also be expected to pay matching funds into the accounts." | 21:55 |
| fenn | dont really get the last line | 21:55 |
| fenn | pack now, then write code and remember what you forgot to pack | 21:56 |
| fenn | if you brought my bathroom stuff and socks it would make me happy | 21:57 |
| fenn | contact lenses in there somewhere would be useful | 21:57 |
| kanzure | weirdest thing happened the other day | 21:58 |
| kanzure | mom wanted me to bring over some dirty laundry when i visited | 21:58 |
| kanzure | so i did.. and she found a contact lense case in the collection | 21:58 |
| kanzure | and she thought i was hiding some sort of affair with a woman | 21:59 |
| kanzure | (or a guy :-/) | 21:59 |
| kanzure | i didn't know they were yours | 21:59 |
| fenn | lol | 21:59 |
| fenn | good thing i didnt leave my lipstick in there too | 21:59 |
| fenn | my new room came with a bulk package of condoms | 22:00 |
| kanzure | bulk package? | 22:00 |
| fenn | well, 24 | 22:00 |
| kanzure | is that bulk? | 22:00 |
| fenn | i dunno | 22:00 |
| kanzure | god we're lame | 22:01 |
| fenn | i wish i'd known you were leaving earlier so i could guilt you into bringing more stuff | 22:02 |
| kanzure | it was a last minute ticket purchase | 22:02 |
| fenn | do you still hang out at the fabratory much? | 22:02 |
| kanzure | i thought i was leaving early july | 22:02 |
| kanzure | not during the summer | 22:02 |
| kanzure | way, way too hot | 22:02 |
| kanzure | but i do have a key and i do hang there every once in a while | 22:03 |
| fenn | are the fishtubs still reasonably accessible? last i saw they were on top of one of the rooms | 22:03 |
| kanzure | they are still there | 22:04 |
| kanzure | they are quasi-reasonably accessible with a ladder | 22:04 |
| kanzure | dave has hextatic | 22:04 |
| fenn | i want to get some of the electronics (lithium batteries, sensor chips, misc components) before mid august | 22:05 |
| fenn | those big lithium batteries are either expensive or take randint()%5 months to arrive from china | 22:06 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/~bbishop/docs/step.py | 22:09 |
| fenn | there's also the third option of using the unlabeled li-po cells from noisebridge and possibly self-immolating | 22:09 |
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| kanzure | i know, i know | 22:11 |
| kanzure | it's terrible | 22:11 |
| kanzure | but the wrapper will make it look nice and pretty | 22:12 |
| fenn | kanzure: for step.py to ever be useful it's going to need an API definition | 22:12 |
| kanzure | yes | 22:12 |
| kanzure | take a look at test_sphere() | 22:12 |
| kanzure | all that stuff is going to be abstracted away from the user | 22:12 |
| kanzure | most of it is just metadata | 22:12 |
| kanzure | the real beans are the product_definition_shape and advanced_brep_shape_representation entities | 22:13 |
| kanzure | oh wait, s/product_definition_shape/shape_definition_representation/ | 22:14 |
| fenn | did you just massage the express file into python with vim? | 22:14 |
| kanzure | yes and no | 22:14 |
| kanzure | it's been quite an experience of random bullshitting of all sorts | 22:15 |
| kanzure | at one point i was writing a python file to read the file python and interject code in particular places O_O | 22:15 |
| kanzure | which is of course the wrong thingg to do | 22:15 |
| kanzure | *which is of ccccourse the wwwrong thingggg to do | 22:15 |
| kanzure | wtf | 22:15 |
| kanzure | ;sdfkljadjkl;adfjkfasdjkl;fasdjk | 22:15 |
| fenn | heh negative zero | 22:15 |
| fenn | that's double plus fantastic | 22:15 |
| ybit | kanzure: adl.serveftp.org is down ftr.. | 22:15 |
| kanzure | ybit: yes i know :( | 22:16 |
| kanzure | heh i have a phd student at the uni to go check out the server tomorrow | 22:18 |
| kanzure | so we'll see what's up. | 22:19 |
| kanzure | fenn: Level2API.py is pretty lame | 22:19 |
| kanzure | http://designfiles.org/~bryan/csg.py is way too basic | 22:19 |
| kanzure | oh that's right, the server is down >_< | 22:19 |
| kanzure | uh, well anyway, we need a good API structure for this | 22:20 |
| kanzure | while you're espousing on how to make it not suck, maybe i can go pack your socks? | 22:20 |
| kanzure | heh | 22:20 |
| fenn | oh, i dont know that much about how STEP actually works, because i never got to read the real documentation | 22:21 |
| kanzure | no no i mean the abstract CAD-like API | 22:21 |
| fenn | i just know there's 13 different ways of specifying a spline | 22:21 |
| fenn | so this is inherently confusing | 22:21 |
| fenn | i think something like asciidoc generated from docstrings would be a good route for making documentation | 22:21 |
| kanzure | for making geometric primitives, sketches, fusions, intersections, .. | 22:22 |
| fenn | or sphinx(?) | 22:22 |
| kanzure | nobody should ever have to see the stuff in step.py | 22:22 |
| kanzure | but rather see stuff like "class Sphere" and "class Edge" | 22:22 |
| fenn | hm, i guess | 22:22 |
| kanzure | and that namespace and API full of easy-to-use constructs is what i'm wondering about | 22:22 |
| kanzure | people are welcome to use the step.py stuff i guess but honestly they are insane | 22:22 |
| fenn | i agree most of the boilerplate stuff should be automatic | 22:23 |
| kanzure | yeah, hide that in a few __init__s or something | 22:23 |
| kanzure | but a weird idea hit me- what about a sphere.fuse(box) where sphere is in one context (metric units) and the other is in imperial buttloads? | 22:23 |
| kanzure | so maybe i'll do some unit conversion magic somewhere | 22:23 |
| fenn | er, is that even possible? fuse? | 22:24 |
| kanzure | heekscad has a "fuse" | 22:24 |
| fenn | right, that's opencascade tho | 22:24 |
| kanzure | and solidworks and just about everything else | 22:24 |
| kanzure | fuse would just mean delete the surfaces that are occluded by the intersection and stitch the surfaces at the intersection edges, or something | 22:25 |
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| fenn | which is mor9e than jjust step import | 22:28 |
| fenn | SMOP | 22:28 |
| kanzure | smop? | 22:28 |
| kanzure | fenn: this isn't step import | 22:28 |
| kanzure | this is step export | 22:28 |
| fenn | i know, but you cant specify 'fuse these together' in a step file | 22:30 |
| kanzure | right, you have to evaluate that command | 22:30 |
| kanzure | which i think is OK to include in an API that is wrapping around all these step-specific bullshit classes | 22:31 |
| kanzure | but maybe, i agree, is not the first/primary goal to accomplish | 22:31 |
| fenn | simple matter of programming: used ironically to imply that a difficult problem can be easily solved because a program can be written to do it; the irony is that it is very clear that writing such a program will be a great deal of work. “It's easy to enhance a FORTRAN compiler to compile COBOL as well; it's just a SMOP.” | 22:32 |
| fenn | simple matter of programming: used ironically to imply that a difficult problem can be easily solved because a program can be written to do it; the irony is that it is very clear that writing such a program will be a great deal of work. "It's easy to enhance a FORTRAN compiler to compile COBOL as well; it's just a SMOP." | 22:32 |
| kanzure | meh less work than step.py has been so far | 22:33 |
| kanzure | splicer: http://www.transalchemy.com/2010/07/rise-of-biopunk.html | 22:33 |
| splicer | kanzure: Thanks, I read it this morning | 22:34 |
| kanzure | it's too bad genehacker didn't jump on this: http://www.thegenehacker.com/ | 22:34 |
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| splicer | apparently I'm genehacker.org | 22:52 |
| fenn | wow they finished already http://www.upi.com/Odd_News/2010/07/26/Plastiki-finishes-Pacific-voyage/UPI-70481280126232/ | 22:55 |
| kanzure | random openfoam/brlcad hating http://www.zoklet.net/bbs/showthread.php?p=2032913 | 22:56 |
| ybit | kanzure: feel free to grab this paper: http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/ja00471a041 if you have utexas access | 22:57 |
| ybit | or similar papers... | 22:58 |
| ybit | dunno who else here might have access.. | 22:58 |
| kanzure | i have access but i don't want to right now. the server should be back up tomorrow anyway. | 23:00 |
| ybit | also of interest: http://digital.csic.es/handle/10261/15287?idioma=en :: "Fabricación de nanoestructuras biomoleculares y nanodispositivos electrónicos mediante Nanolitografía por Oxidación Local" | 23:06 |
| ybit | also of interest: http://digital.csic.es/handle/10261/15287?idioma=en :: "Fabricación de nanoestructuras biomoleculares y nanodispositivos electrónicos mediante Nanolitografía por Oxidación Local" | 23:06 |
| ybit | and this one because everyone cares: http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/322/5900/413 :: "Complex Patterning by Vertical Interchange Atom Manipulation Using Atomic Force Microscopy" | 23:11 |
| kanzure | the world of credit card processing is bizarre http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1734454&cid=33052684 | 23:16 |
| kanzure | heh http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1734454&cid=33052778 | 23:17 |
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| kanzure | fenn: plastiki was all over the news when i was at mom's the other day. | 23:22 |
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| fenn | man, sorting videos takes for ever | 23:31 |
| fenn | hey, one of you internet people needs to like, edit these or something | 23:31 |
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| kanzure | fenn: context? | 23:41 |
| ybit | god i hate patents | 23:45 |
| ybit | http://www.google.com/patents/about?id=kToQAAAAEBAJ&dq=non-contact+atomic+force+microscope | 23:45 |
| ybit | we have to wait until this expires to make an open equivalent of it? :\ | 23:45 |
| ybit | you don't have to pay fees if you are building stuff for educational purposes right? you could, in theory, build it and show others how to as well if they would like to make it for educational purposes as well | 23:47 |
| ybit | sleep time. | 23:47 |
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| --- Log closed Wed Jul 28 00:00:17 2010 | ||
| --- Log closed Wed Jul 28 00:00:43 2010 | ||
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