| --- Log opened Wed Aug 11 00:00:17 2010 | ||
| kanzure | so, i think opennurbs has a gl rendering front with opennurbs_gl.cpp | 00:01 |
|---|---|---|
| kanzure | http://sourceforge.net/projects/on-wrap/files/pre-alpha/fileset%200.1/pyOpenNurbs.zip/download | 00:03 |
| kanzure | swig -python opennurbs.i -cpperraswarn | 00:07 |
| kanzure | but you have to also mess up opennurbs.i a bit to get it to work on linux (since it was written for a windows host) | 00:07 |
| kanzure | i extracted the zip file into ~/local/brlcad/brlcad-7.16.8/src/other/python because it looks for ../opennurbs/ (but i had to do a search and replace to openNURBS because, again, the path it was looking for was wrong) | 00:07 |
| kanzure | now i get this: ../openNURBS/opennurbs_system.h:283: Error: Extra short specifier. | 00:08 |
| kanzure | fixed that by a #DEFINE just above line 280something to make it think it's gcc | 00:18 |
| kanzure | ../openNURBS/opennurbs_crc.h:64: Error: Syntax error in input(1). | 00:19 |
| kanzure | git://git.debian.org/users/eugen/opennurbs.git might be handy | 00:27 |
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| kanzure | hrm i'm probably never going to be able to do this again but i got it to work | 00:31 |
| kanzure | this worked: swig -classic -cpperraswarn -c++ -python opennurbs.i | 00:34 |
| kanzure | and presumably this is supposed to? g++ -I/usr/include/python2.6/ opennurbs_wrap.cxx -o _opennurbs.o | 00:35 |
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| kanzure | there's a whole section on the wchar_t errors here: http://www.swig.org/Doc1.3/SWIG.html | 00:47 |
| kanzure | opennurbs_wrap.cxx:(.text._ZN14ON_SimpleArrayIP7ON_FontE7PermuteEPKi[ON_SimpleArray<ON_Font*>::Permute(int const*)]+0x3d): undefined reference to `onmalloc' | 01:02 |
| kanzure | uh am i supposed to link to opennurbs.o or something? | 01:07 |
| QuantumG | http://quantumg.blogspot.com/2010/08/asteroid-menace.html | 01:07 |
| kanzure | http://wiki.mcneel.com/developer/opennurbs/faq | 01:12 |
| kanzure | "# | 01:12 |
| kanzure | All memory allocations and frees are done through onmalloc(), onfree(), and onrealloc(). The source code that ships with openNURBS simply has onmalloc() call malloc() and onfree() call free(). | 01:12 |
| kanzure | "consult your local GL whiz for details" gee, thanks opennurbs! | 01:20 |
| kanzure | this is probably stupid of me but i downloaded the 2010-04-09 version of opennurbs and compiled it to get libopenNURBS.a and am using that to link against for the swigged stuff (when i compile the result of the swigged stuff, i mean) | 01:26 |
| kanzure | yeah it didn't work. :P | 01:27 |
| kanzure | god damn it | 01:34 |
| kanzure | googled for: swig "undefined reference to `PyTuple_Type'" | 01:34 |
| kanzure | and got back me :( | 01:34 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/~bbishop/docs/pythonocc/scons_notes.txt | 01:34 |
| kanzure | okay adding -lpython2.5 makes sense | 01:34 |
| kanzure | opennurbs_wrap.cxx:(.text._ZN13ON_ClassArrayI12ON_HatchLineE23ConstructDefaultElementEPS0_[ON_ClassArray<ON_HatchLine>::ConstructDefaultElement(ON_HatchLine*)]+0x2a): undefined reference to `ON_HatchLine::ON_HatchLine()' | 01:36 |
| kanzure | my line is: g++ -I/usr/include/python2.5/ -L. -lpython2.5 -lopenNURBS opennurbs_wrap.cxx -o _opennurbs.o | 01:36 |
| kanzure | to get example_gl/example_gl.cpp to compile in opennurbs i had to add a #define CALLBACK randomly | 01:54 |
| kanzure | wow just compiling the example file was an ordeal :P | 02:03 |
| kanzure | it works, and i can rotate an object in the window, but there's this blue flashing line every time i rotate a bit | 02:04 |
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| epitron | doublebuffering! | 02:30 |
| epitron | backface culling! | 02:30 |
| epitron | occlusion trees! | 02:31 |
| kanzure | opennurbs_wrap.cxx:(.text._ZN13ON_ClassArrayI14ON_MaterialRefE8HeapSortEPFiPKS0_S3_E[ON_ClassArray<ON_MaterialRef>::HeapSort(int (*)(ON_MaterialRef const*, ON_MaterialRef const*))]+0x54): undefined reference to `ON_hsort(void*, unsigned int, unsigned int, int (*)(void const*, void const*))' | 02:36 |
| kanzure | is there something other than -lopenNURBS that i should be adding to my g++ line to compile opennurbs_wrap.cxx (the result of the swig generator)? | 02:37 |
| epitron | maybe swig missed a method | 02:38 |
| epitron | ON_hsort | 02:38 |
| kanzure | do you know what swig is? | 02:38 |
| epitron | yes | 02:38 |
| kanzure | i don't need to expose ON_hsort in the interface | 02:38 |
| epitron | you're right though, swig wouldn't be responsible for this | 02:38 |
| epitron | yeah, i'm just saying things | 02:39 |
| kanzure | kk | 02:39 |
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| kanzure | i dno't get it http://scienceonlinelondon.wikidot.com/topics:green-chain-reaction | 09:09 |
| kanzure | *don't | 09:09 |
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| kanzure | elevenarms suggests http://libcinder.org/ for visualization magics | 09:31 |
| kanzure | this looks like overkill: http://roberthodgin.com/cymatic-ferrofluid/ | 09:32 |
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| kanzure | fenn: what the hell is going on with luf-team and why are they all of the sudden doing social networking bullshit? | 09:46 |
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| fenn | you mean like, talking to each other? | 10:11 |
| fenn | cinder is neat | 10:11 |
| fenn | re: the cymatic/ferrofluid thing, i saw something like that (but different) based around a webcam: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZyOen546D5E | 10:16 |
| fenn | i drank a pound of spinach this morning (discovered the vita-mix) | 10:17 |
| fenn | it has a splash guard (?) which is really nice because it dampens the noise to about the sound of a cordless drill | 10:21 |
| kanzure | it seems like someone is trying to hijack luf-team and i haven't seen eric around in a while | 10:31 |
| kanzure | is he dead? | 10:31 |
| fenn | hope not | 10:32 |
| kanzure | you know what this means right? | 10:32 |
| kanzure | his "autobiography" is going to be "coauthored" by ben lipkowitz | 10:32 |
| kanzure | best of luck. | 10:32 |
| kanzure | okay, so, i was trying to swig opennurbs and i found someone who attempted it a while back | 10:34 |
| kanzure | (and the resulting file) | 10:34 |
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| kanzure | i've finally got it down to only a handful of errors when compiling the _opennurbs.so object | 10:35 |
| kanzure | for instance: opennurbs_wrap.cxx:(.text+0xa6bb2): undefined reference to `ON_UuidIndexList::Write(ON_BinaryArchive&) const' | 10:35 |
| fenn | "You are justified in | 10:35 |
| fenn | feeling that you both worked very hard for education and experience you have gained, and it is frustrating | 10:35 |
| fenn | to the point of hyperventilation to be asked to bring someone like me along." | 10:35 |
| fenn | WORDS | 10:35 |
| kanzure | there's about 8 of those left, but there were originally 20 of those and i made them vanish by adding %ignore lines to the swig interface file (but apparently %ignore didn't work for these few remaining issues?) | 10:36 |
| kanzure | fenn: yeah, them fighting words | 10:36 |
| kanzure | i read that email and couldn't figure out what he thought you said | 10:36 |
| kanzure | hey who is elifarley and why do i keep running into him? | 11:02 |
| kanzure | oh i'm confusing him with eli chait | 11:02 |
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| kanzure | fenn: do you want to write a "why we shouldn't have a dependency on opencascade in skdb" post to om? leo dearden is asking | 11:45 |
| kanzure | ooh it worked: g++ -c ../opennurbs/*.cpp opennurbs_wrap.cxx -I/usr/include/python2.5/ -I/usr/lib/python2.5/ -L. -lpython2.5 -lopenNURBS -lGLU -lGL -lglut -lXmu -lXi -lXext -lX11 2>&1 | 11:59 |
| kanzure | but i had to manually edit opennurbs_wrap.cxx because the %ignore statements didn't take effect >:o | 11:59 |
| kanzure | TOO MANY CONSOLES!! http://tpc.googlesyndication.com/pagead/imgad?id=CMD4_ZmXx8qx8gEQ0AIYmAIyCMUjf8jGhi1Q | 12:07 |
| kanzure | ImportError: ./_opennurbs.so: undefined symbol: __cxa_guard_acquire | 12:09 |
| kanzure | this helped me at least get to that point: http://www.penzilla.net/tutorials/python/swig/ | 12:10 |
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| fenn | plz remind me about om post later | 12:30 |
| kanzure | what is later? | 12:30 |
| kanzure | also it's odd that neither of us have written it up anyway.. seems like it would save a lot of others some time? | 12:31 |
| kanzure | when compiling opennurbs_wrap.cxx osmething like -lstdc++ needs to be added near -L. | 12:32 |
| kanzure | so that makes it: g++ -c ../opennurbs/*.cpp opennurbs_wrap.cxx -I/usr/include/python2.5/ -I/usr/lib/python2.5/ -L. -lstdc++ -lpython2.5 -lopenNURBS -lGLU -lGL -lglut -lXmu -lXi -lXext -lX11 2>&1 | 12:32 |
| kanzure | and then you link it up: ld -shared -o _opennurbs.so libopenNURBS.a opennurbs_wrap.o | 12:32 |
| kanzure | hrm.. -lstc++ didn't fix the __cxa_guard_acquire problem. | 12:32 |
| kanzure | >> import opennurbs | 12:51 |
| kanzure | success.. but i didn't bother to check if ON_GL was in the swig interface definition >_< so there's no opengl stuff included | 12:51 |
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| kanzure | hi alfeb | 12:52 |
| alfeb | hello | 12:52 |
| alfeb | I'm a physicist very interested in OSH and the skdb project | 12:53 |
| kanzure | :) | 12:54 |
| kanzure | then you're in the right place | 12:54 |
| alfeb | :) | 12:54 |
| kanzure | today i've been wrestling with some nurbs visualization libraries | 12:54 |
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| kanzure | hrm | 12:56 |
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| kanzure | welcome back alfeb | 12:59 |
| alfeb | thanks | 12:59 |
| kanzure | did you find your way here via the open manufacturing group? | 13:00 |
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| alfeb | open source ecology -> fab,tractors,spaceships, printers ... long etc of a few days -> skdb and then here | 13:02 |
| kanzure | got it | 13:02 |
| kanzure | opennurbs_wrap.cxx:330174: error: expected type-specifier before 'GLUnurbsObj' | 13:03 |
| kanzure | hm | 13:04 |
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| kanzure | huh i wonder why opennurbs.h doesn't include opennurbs_gl.h by default | 13:07 |
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| kanzure | now for the gruesome conversion of example_gl.cpp into python | 13:37 |
| kanzure | http://imagebin.org/index.php?mode=image&id=109183 | 13:37 |
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| kanzure | http://emergenttransformation.com/ | 13:50 |
| kanzure | does anyone know what "the sandbox network" is and why max marmer keeps showing up in weird places? | 13:50 |
| kanzure | http://maxmarmer.com/2010/07/implications-of-startups-that-exist-to-maximize-abundant-social-capital-instead-of-scarce-economic-capital/ | 13:51 |
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| kanzure | http://www.sandbox-network.com/ | 13:54 |
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| kanzure | looks elitist | 13:59 |
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| alfeb | darn! turned 30 last year :) won't make it into their special-people club | 14:16 |
| alfeb | there are other social-entrepreneurship organizations, some involved in OSH in some way or another | 14:18 |
| alfeb | http://iddsummit.org/ from MITs fab lab for ex. | 14:19 |
| alfeb | (sorry, from the D-lab, not fab lab) | 14:19 |
| alfeb | http://www.unreasonableinstitute.org/ too | 14:20 |
| kanzure | wtf are these? | 14:20 |
| kanzure | it's alarming how people flock towards social exclusivity | 14:23 |
| alfeb | well, IDDS summit gathers farmers, welders, artisans, mathematicians, designers, engineers, ... who just apply | 14:25 |
| alfeb | usually from around the world (mostly developing countries) to develop appropriate technology for third world problems | 14:25 |
| kanzure | any time people say "appropriate technology" what they really mean is they are going to patent it and then restrict its diffusion (example: diagnostics for all) | 14:26 |
| alfeb | well, it's often the case. But in this particular case I can tell you it's not as I attended the summit a couple of years back | 14:26 |
| kanzure | okay. | 14:26 |
| alfeb | they came up with simple stuff like a corn sheller | 14:26 |
| alfeb | (may look pretty stupid as it's a piece of bent metal ... but it can save lots working hours ) | 14:27 |
| alfeb | but not much to patent there (or a special hammer to make charcoal) | 14:27 |
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| splicer_ | I have a stupd question: Does this say that the price to sequence 96x400bp is $4.86 if I send them the 96 well plate and the primers? | 14:30 |
| splicer_ | https://dnacore.mgh.harvard.edu/cgi-bin/sequencing/index.shtml#rates | 14:30 |
| splicer_ | ...or am I missing something? | 14:31 |
| kanzure | sounds like you got it right | 14:31 |
| kanzure | but that might be 4.87 per well? | 14:31 |
| kanzure | "$4.87 per sample ... $3.10/sample for orders containing 96 samples in plate format" | 14:32 |
| splicer_ | I think you're right... it would be 4.87 for 400-600bp I think | 14:33 |
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| splicer_ | thanks kanzure | 14:37 |
| splicer_ | what was the reason I'd want to build a gelbox again? | 14:40 |
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| fenn | tagadelic (the neat tag cloud thingy on sandbox-network.com) is nifty and i dont think it absolutely requires drupal/plone/whatever to work | 14:51 |
| fenn | where else has max marmer showed up? | 14:52 |
| alfeb | quick question, is updates-from-austin.pdf up on adl.serveftp.org? or is it just my connexion? | 14:57 |
| kanzure | adl.serveftp.org was confiscated by "the proper authorities" | 14:57 |
| kanzure | i could throw the file up somewhere else though if you give me a few seconds to upload | 14:57 |
| alfeb | that would be great, thank you | 14:58 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/irc/updates-from-austin.pdf | 15:00 |
| alfeb | thanks | 15:02 |
| kanzure | i'm sorry you have to ask manually for the files.. i should just drive over there and see if the server is still physically there | 15:02 |
| kanzure | maybe i'll do that tomorrow | 15:02 |
| kanzure | alfeb: there's better stuff than just updates-from-austin.pdf btw | 15:06 |
| alfeb | I'm all ears | 15:07 |
| fenn | kanzure has a car? | 15:07 |
| kanzure | i've had a car for.. uh | 15:08 |
| kanzure | a long time :) | 15:08 |
| fenn | well uh, belated congratulations | 15:08 |
| kanzure | http://www.autoclub.com.au/uploaded_images/toyota-rav4-2006-759707.jpg | 15:09 |
| kanzure | fenn: alfeb's ears make me think we should have written an actual whitepaper on this shit a while ago | 15:09 |
| kanzure | honestly a pdf file sent to rob stone is not what i'd call "quality material" :) | 15:09 |
| alfeb | if you need LaTeX typesetting to make it look like "quality material" I'd be happy to chip in | 15:11 |
| kanzure | hehe | 15:11 |
| kanzure | quite possibly | 15:11 |
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| kanzure | alfeb: the best thing that you could be staring at is http://github.com/kanzure/skdb/ i guess | 15:12 |
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| kanzure | the doc/ folder has the architecture, "best guesses for the future" example files, stuff like that | 15:12 |
| kanzure | i did a scrape of thingiverse and made skdb-like packages for all of the thingiverse objects, but that's also on davinci / adl.serveftp.org | 15:13 |
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| alfeb | I've started to have a look ... on github ... oh, the conversion of all thingiverse objects sounds quite impressive, how did it work out? | 15:15 |
| kanzure | the hardest part was figuring out the names for the packages | 15:20 |
| kanzure | i had a little convert to take the name of the thingiverse object and turn it into a "unix name" | 15:20 |
| kanzure | however, in many cases thingiverse objects have absolutely awful titles | 15:20 |
| kanzure | 1/4" fitting | 15:21 |
| kanzure | stuff like that is common :P | 15:21 |
| alfeb | I see | 15:21 |
| kanzure | and if you just strip that or whatever you get 14-fitting | 15:21 |
| kanzure | which is a pretty useless package name | 15:21 |
| alfeb | sure. Well, I need to know more about what a "skdb-like package" looks like before understanding the extent of the scrape, so I'll have more questions another time | 15:24 |
| kanzure | basically it's metadata plus cad files | 15:26 |
| kanzure | but in the case of thingiverse they just have mesh files more often than not | 15:26 |
| kanzure | also a license file or license attribute in the metadata | 15:26 |
| kanzure | there are a few unanswered issues with packages though because we've never actually figured out if having a python file inside of a package to define algorithms (and whatever else) was appropriate or not | 15:27 |
| alfeb | why would it not be appropriate? | 15:28 |
| kanzure | it's generally a bad idea to hard code anything | 15:28 |
| kanzure | for instance, in the screw package there's screw.py which defines max_load and a few other methods for various calculations.. in no particular order either :P | 15:29 |
| kanzure | fenn: write that email? | 15:30 |
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| alfeb | so...(showing my lack of understanding with a question), the problem is that another algorithm/language could not access some of the methods? | 15:30 |
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| kanzure | well i guess you could get access to those methods from another language (like if you include a python interpreter in your C++ project or just call the script from a shell) | 15:31 |
| kanzure | it just seems messy | 15:32 |
| alfeb | sure | 15:32 |
| alfeb | now, another ignorant question ... does some of the metadata enable combining parts (or things)? And if so ... the combinations could very easily grow exponentially ... making it hard to combine the parts. | 15:34 |
| kanzure | "making it hard to combine the parts" hard in what way? | 15:34 |
| kanzure | one of the demos we did were legos | 15:34 |
| kanzure | so there's an interactive demo of plugging legos together | 15:34 |
| kanzure | the data that defined this was a set of "control points" assigned in 3D space with a vector pointing away from the object, like at the holes and other connector points on a lego | 15:35 |
| kanzure | hm i have a screenshot of this on the server that isn't up | 15:35 |
| kanzure | we implemented an axis-aligned bounding box collision detection routine for combining the lego parts to make sure no parts intersected each other in an assembly | 15:36 |
| alfeb | no, I mean hard computationally, that if you have 100 parts with N "contact points", then you have N**100 combinations | 15:37 |
| kanzure | for the demo we only allowed random choices for where to try to add a brick, so naturally it took quite a while when you had a large 15+ lego model to run through the collision detection for each of the random attempts at plugging in a lego | 15:37 |
| kanzure | (this was using opencascade and their visualization system, so it wasn't exactly obvious how to get the mouse controls working) | 15:37 |
| kanzure | yes that's true | 15:38 |
| kanzure | but primarily skdb is about building things first and foremost | 15:38 |
| kanzure | automated design problem solving is a nice novelty and something i've thought a lot about, but it definitely doesn't seem necessary for first demos | 15:38 |
| alfeb | I understand. It sure is a complex problem. if your machine is missing a part, finding the right part efficiently in a large database could be interesting (and the metadata and geometry should help with that, right?) | 15:41 |
| kanzure | yes geometry match search stuff is one use. there was actually someone doing that in the literature once | 15:41 |
| kanzure | basically his method was to break up a model into a mesh and then into a skeleton-type-model-thing called a ceeb graph | 15:42 |
| kanzure | ceeb graph? something like that. | 15:42 |
| kanzure | and then some graph similarity matching algorithms on the ceeb graphs or skeleton graphs of the models | 15:42 |
| kanzure | reeb graphs. that's it. | 15:43 |
| kanzure | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shape_analysis | 15:43 |
| kanzure | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reeb_graph | 15:43 |
| alfeb | sounds cool | 15:44 |
| alfeb | and an efficient algorithm for computing them seems to exist | 15:44 |
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| alfeb | bedtime here in Denmark. Thanks for the insight kanzure. | 15:48 |
| kanzure | :) any time | 15:48 |
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| fenn | look i'm in wired (pale hairy guy in center) http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2010/08/libertarian-burning-man/?pid=17 | 15:52 |
| kanzure | isn't this the second time? | 15:54 |
| fenn | i can't keep track | 15:54 |
| kanzure | oh crud i forgot to send my notes to gary | 15:54 |
| kanzure | emailafil | 15:54 |
| fenn | oh the qs thing was in new yor times | 15:54 |
| kanzure | *emailfail | 15:54 |
| kanzure | what? | 15:55 |
| fenn | qs meeting is in like 2 hours | 15:55 |
| kanzure | heh i thought you just meant timezone because | 15:55 |
| kanzure | gah now you really do mean timezone stuff | 15:55 |
| kanzure | *thought you just meant the ny timezone | 15:55 |
| kanzure | ANYWAY | 15:55 |
| kanzure | he wanted to do a phone interview and everything, and i don't have the materials to make it easy for him to do show-and-tell | 15:55 |
| fenn | thomas goetz was supposed to write a qs article for wired but i never saw anything | 15:55 |
| kanzure | fenn did you see my pm about money stuff? | 15:57 |
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| fenn | egad.. /me just googled for 'floatopia' | 16:55 |
| kanzure | they need to do one in the gulf near the oil | 16:59 |
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| kanzure | kanzure@pikachu:~/local/opennurbs/python2$ python opennurbs_visualizer.py | 17:46 |
| kanzure | Segmentation fault | 17:46 |
| kanzure | >_< | 17:46 |
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| kanzure | i seem to be seg faulting on gluNurbsProperty calls | 18:24 |
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| QuantumG | see if something is expecting a pointer and you're passing in a variable. | 18:36 |
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| kanzure | QuantumG: that was exactly what was happening actually :) | 18:57 |
| kanzure | i was calling gluNurbs() and that's apparently either just returning a pointer or useless in general | 18:57 |
| kanzure | it's gluNewNurbsThingy() that matters | 18:57 |
| QuantumG | ya | 18:58 |
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| kanzure | swig says i need to pass this: ON_GL(ON_Brep const &,GLUnurbsObj *) | 20:17 |
| kanzure | ON_GL(an ON_Brep object, a GLUnurbs object (also tried the gluNewNurbsRenderer())) is the line in question | 20:17 |
| kanzure | now, for other cases, like ON_GL(ON_Curve const &,GLUnurbsObj *), it works just fine using basically the same pattern | 20:17 |
| kanzure | so i don't know why my brep object isn't being accepted (it can't be the GLUnurbsObj because that's the same in both cases) | 20:18 |
| kanzure | it's a prefectly valid object.. | 20:18 |
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| phryk | is that glsl? | 21:31 |
| kanzure | glsl? | 21:33 |
| kanzure | what? | 21:33 |
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| kanzure | todo for tomorrow is to rewrite opennurbs' ON_GL .. it doesn't seem to like it when i pass it a pointer or whatever. | 22:25 |
| kanzure | rewriting that code is too far upstream though | 22:25 |
| kanzure | there's some manual modifications that i've had to make to the generated _wrap.cxx file and opennurbs.py file because swig doesn't follow my %ignore directives | 22:26 |
| kanzure | hrm. | 22:26 |
| fenn | gordon moore (mylifebits, microsoft research director) and randal koene (minduploading.org/carboncopies.org) talked at QS | 23:31 |
| fenn | randal has a ncurses-y unix program he uses to make todo lists and record 'tasks' that have been accomplished | 23:32 |
| fenn | these tasks are all organized in a dependency tree, so the program can tell him what he needs to do next | 23:32 |
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| fenn | a random entry i happened to see: Teleplace meeting with Anders, Giulio, and Tudor, 19:00 CET May 14, 200(1?) | 23:34 |
| fenn | sorry 2010 | 23:35 |
| fenn | and numerous black inked-out "secret" lines of course | 23:36 |
| fenn | there was a cardiologist heckler in the audience too, who made frun of seth roberts' (third speaker) butter for reaction time enhancement experiment | 23:46 |
| fenn | randall also plugged "advancing substrate-independent minds" workshop aug 16-17 which i dont know if i'll be able to go to http://www.carboncopies.org/workshop2 | 23:50 |
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| --- Log closed Thu Aug 12 00:00:17 2010 | ||
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