2010-11-10.log

--- Log opened Wed Nov 10 00:00:08 2010
-!- killall-9 [~paulc@diana.null.ro] has joined #hplusroadmap00:59
-!- memorex [~durp@97.67.109.107] has joined #hplusroadmap02:19
memorexhttp://www.observer.com/2010/daily-transom/future-alert-std-test-theres-app02:20
-!- memorex [~durp@97.67.109.107] has quit [Client Quit]02:22
-!- jennifer2 [~jennifer@70-36-134-52.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]03:55
-!- mheld [~mheld@pool-173-76-224-45.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #hplusroadmap04:05
-!- hesaid_ is now known as hesaid04:05
-!- memorex [~durp@97.67.109.107] has joined #hplusroadmap04:31
-!- mheld [~mheld@pool-173-76-224-45.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has left #hplusroadmap []05:32
-!- jmil [~jmil@c-76-124-67-155.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #hplusroadmap05:46
-!- jmil [~jmil@c-76-124-67-155.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: jmil]05:58
-!- JayDugger [~duggerj@pool-173-74-76-197.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #hplusroadmap05:59
-!- augur [~augur@208.58.6.161] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]06:41
-!- jmil [~jmil@2001:468:1802:e148:223:32ff:feb1:9dfc] has joined #hplusroadmap06:41
-!- jmil [~jmil@2001:468:1802:e148:223:32ff:feb1:9dfc] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]06:43
-!- jmil [~jmil@2001:468:1802:e148:223:32ff:feb1:9dfc] has joined #hplusroadmap06:44
-!- memorex [~durp@97.67.109.107] has quit [Quit: memorex]07:31
-!- wolfspraul [~wolfsprau@lucia.q-ag.de] has quit [Quit: leaving]07:34
flamthttp://science.slashdot.org/story/10/11/10/066210/Construction-On-Spaceship-Factory-Set-To-Begin-In-the-Mojave07:40
archels"The Spaceship Co." is the awesomest name ever for a company.07:49
-!- augur [~augur@129.2.129.32] has joined #hplusroadmap07:52
-!- Helleshin [~Helleshin@cpe-71-67-103-109.cinci.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]07:56
-!- Helleshin [~Helleshin@cpe-71-67-103-109.cinci.res.rr.com] has joined #hplusroadmap07:57
kanzureanyone going to society for neuroscience in san diego this week/next?08:51
-!- archels [~neuralnet@541EEC68.cm-5-7d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]08:51
kanzureart with bioluminescent bacteria http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KYDTYcDtKQ08:56
kanzurethat was via Dakota Hamill <dkotes@gmail.com>08:56
-!- mheld [~mheld@c-75-69-89-109.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #hplusroadmap08:56
kanzurethe gibson assembly song http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCWjJFU1be809:01
-!- mheld [~mheld@c-75-69-89-109.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has left #hplusroadmap []09:01
kanzuredenisa kera is doing a diybio/singapore talk at science center singapore09:02
kanzurehttp://www.science.edu.sg/Events/Pages/EventDetail.aspx?ID=120@event09:02
-!- industromatic [~chatzilla@cpe-66-68-104-159.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #hplusroadmap09:02
industromaticI guessed openpcr was soso from descriptions on their site.  Just wanted to suggest they keep their promises.09:03
-!- archels [~neuralnet@541EEC68.cm-5-7d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #hplusroadmap09:04
industromaticA better pcr machine would be a better project to do than microfluidics right away, but fluidics could be money making.09:04
kanzurethere is no data on the market size for diybio stuff09:05
kanzureat the moment it looks like everyone involved is most likely broke09:05
industromaticNope.09:05
kanzuremost people are waiting for someone else to do the footwork and do the actual market validation09:05
industromaticmost likely.09:06
industromaticBut the kickstarter results of Tito J were real enough.09:06
kanzuresame with biocurious i guess.09:07
industromaticIs openSCAD going to be the best way to do CAD output for simple shapes where you want tomake revisions?09:07
kanzurebut joe was really milking the crowsd to get the funding for--09:07
kanzureindustromatic: well, openscad only outputs to STL, and STL is like distributing a compiled file instead of the source code09:07
industromaticbiocurious is going to be what they focus on  -- you can tell they are very hands off mfrs.09:07
kanzureyou can distribute openscad .scad files (which defines the shapes and so on)09:07
industromaticto distribute openscad .scad  seems a good thing for now.09:08
kanzurebut i am hesitant to recommend openscad because there's no STEP/IGES export plugin09:08
kanzureso you can't get your "CAD" objects into solidworks/alibre/pro-engineer/catia 09:08
kanzureon the other hand, if you just shared a STEP/IGES file, it would not be parametric either09:09
industromaticwouldn't it be nice if there was a script driven input to HeeksCAD?09:09
kanzurei consider openscad to be kind of "isolated" at the moment, so that's why i am disinterested in it09:09
kanzurethere is.. HeeksPython09:09
kanzuredunno if heekspython is still working or not; also iirc freecad might have a python binding09:09
industromaticWEll, then that can be as good as openSCAD..?09:09
industromaticFreecad's going to be good.  I need now.09:10
kanzurethere's also python bindings to opencascade called pythonOCC-- the only problem is that OCC is big, bulky, and not meant for end-users (heekscad/freecad are GUIs on top of OCC)09:10
industromaticHeeksCAD is working, just not as flexible for reuse.09:10
kanzurethis last option isn't quite ready for the primetime.. my CAD kernel called 'lolcad'09:10
kanzuregit://diyhpl.us/srv/git/lolcad.git09:10
industromaticYou can't get Heekscad drawings to parameterize much.09:11
kanzureit's python-based CAD that exports to STEP09:11
kanzureright09:11
kanzureand saving things in STEP/IGES might insure you get compatibility across CAD platforms but you lose a lot of parametric information09:11
industromaticwhat's your goal with lolcad?09:11
kanzurefor instance, if you save a drill bit in STEP, you lose the ability to redefine, say, the cylinder on which it was built-- you could cut/fuse the solid model but not much else09:11
industromaticlolcad is for skdb, right?09:12
kanzurelolcad is more generic (but yeah skdb can use it, skdb could also use openscad etc.)09:12
industromaticIn HeeksCAD, when I want to move a hole, I save anintermediate drawing that has the cylinder that cuts the hole.09:12
kanzuremy goal with lolcad is a parametric CAD kernel that is pythonic09:12
industromaticparametric CAD kernel that is pythonic  -- great.09:13
kanzurelolcad's primary feature is exporting to ISO 10303-21 AP203-- "STEP"09:13
kanzurebuuut as i mentioned, that's not quite enough for full parametric compatibility with i.e. solidworks09:13
kanzureso i've been playing around with reverse engineering the solidworks file format09:13
kanzurei've made a little bit of progress actually :)09:14
industromaticsolidworks is recommended by folks that use autocad and it.09:15
kanzureif i get solidworks file format compatibility then it could be parametric in python/lolcad and also editable in solidworks09:15
kanzurei was trying to get someone to write an IGES/STEP exporter for openscad but nothing came of that. i looked into writing one, but since the CGAL/OpenCSG licenses were a little wacky, i decided i'd be best off on my own09:16
kanzurecathal garvey's new site http://www.indiebiotech.com/09:16
industromaticHe was just talking on diybio about open tools not mattering.  I thik there will be a market for kits and lab hardware because biologists are mostly hands off about cutting tools or electronics.09:18
kanzurethere is a strong misunderstanding of "open source" in the diybio community. i.e. witness openpcr09:18
industromaticCathal's site mentions talks he's giving mostly -- very professor like.09:20
industromaticSo why do you H__e Tito J.?  Not that I find him likeable much...09:20
kanzurei've had a long history with him since 200809:21
kanzurehe's more a marketing/sales type, if you know what i mean09:21
industromaticHe was trying to get me to work for him for $2000 per project....  :-)09:21
industromaticOh yeah.  self described marketing guy.09:21
kanzuredon't get me wrong.. diybio is very good at self-promotion http://bit.ly/diybionews09:22
industromaticI think some of the lab hardware market will be university purchasing agents.09:22
industromaticThey'll want UL/ETL tested gear though.09:23
industromaticAnd no "some assy required" instruction sheets.09:23
kanzurejoe has a company that was trying to commercialize a project he called "the lava amp", but he spent 100k on rob carlson to goof off with it09:24
industromaticNo response from the reprap folks you gave me the emails of.09:24
kanzurei don't know if they did market validation or not for their thermocycler.. 09:24
kanzureyeah, those reprap guys were colombians who may or may not still be alive/active09:25
kanzureit was a long shot09:25
kanzurethey might only peripherally know of the person you wanted to reach09:25
industromaticIs joe == josejaoquinprieto@hotmail.com?09:28
industromaticlava amp still has anugly aluminum box with rubber bands holding on a sample vial shield.09:31
industromaticOn their main page.09:31
industromaticI thought lava amp was guido nunez.09:39
industromaticDid the 100K come from unreasonable institute?09:39
kanzurejoe is joseph jackson (biocurious, lava amp, transhumanism, diybio..)09:40
kanzureyeah guido and joe are good pals09:40
kanzurethe 100k came from somewhere else. i don't think the unreasonable institute funded them09:41
kanzurehttp://www.pearlbiotech.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/pearl_biotech-led_shield-02.zip09:44
-!- memorex [~durp@97.67.109.107] has joined #hplusroadmap09:53
kanzurehttp://www.rathenau.nl/en/agenda/meetings/conference-making-perfect-life-bio-engineering-in-the-21st-century-1.html10:17
kanzure"Synthetic solutions to climate crisis: the dangers of synthetic biology for biofuels production" http://www.foe.org/sites/default/files/SynBio-Biofuels%20Report_Web.pdf10:19
-!- killall-9 [~paulc@diana.null.ro] has quit [Quit: Leaving]10:31
-!- augur [~augur@129.2.129.32] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]10:33
-!- eridu [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/eridu] has joined #hplusroadmap10:34
-!- augur [~augur@129.2.129.32] has joined #hplusroadmap10:48
-!- augur [~augur@129.2.129.32] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]10:52
-!- marainein [~marainein@220.253-198-249.VIC.netspace.net.au] has joined #hplusroadmap11:08
-!- eridu [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/eridu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]11:49
kanzureLarge-scale migration to an open source office suite: An innovation adoption study in Finland http://acta.uta.fi/haekokoversio.php?id=1135711:53
kanzureapparently that's a phd thesis :P11:53
-!- augur [~augur@129.2.129.32] has joined #hplusroadmap11:53
kanzure"Making Perfect Life: Bio-engineering in the 21st century" a conference for the european parliament http://ieet.org/index.php/IEET/more/20101110mpl1 11:55
kanzurehttp://www.rathenau.nl/agenda/bijeenkomsten/conference-making-perfect-life-bio-engineering-in-the-21st-century.html11:55
kanzurewoops, same thing as before11:55
kanzuresomehow i mistook ieet and iftf's website11:56
kanzureIt Will Be Awesome if They Don't Screw it Up: 3D Printing, Intellectual Property, and the Fight Over the Next Great Disruptive Technology http://www.publicknowledge.org/it-will-be-awesome-if-they-dont-screw-it-up 11:58
kanzurepdf: http://www.publicknowledge.org/files/docs/3DPrintingPaperPublicKnowledge.pdf11:58
-!- eridu [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/eridu] has joined #hplusroadmap12:04
-!- memorex [~durp@97.67.109.107] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]13:08
-!- superkuh [hukrepus@unaffiliated/superkuh] has quit [Quit: The action potential is an electrical manipulation of reversible abrupt phase changes in the lipid bilayer of neurons.]13:28
-!- superkuh [~hukrepus@unaffiliated/superkuh] has joined #hplusroadmap13:29
-!- archels [~neuralnet@541EEC68.cm-5-7d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]13:44
-!- clemux [clemux@lysine.clemux.info] has quit [Quit: leaving]13:46
-!- clemux [clemux@lysine.clemux.info] has joined #hplusroadmap13:48
-!- archels [~neuralnet@541EEC68.cm-5-7d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #hplusroadmap13:55
kanzurehttp://chetansurpur.com/blog/2010/11/magic-work-cycle.html13:56
-!- eridu [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/eridu] has quit [Quit: Leaving]13:59
QuantumGhow's your cad program coming kanzure?14:10
kanzurehaven't made any commits lately..14:19
kanzurei've been going down the solidworks fileformat rabbit hole14:20
kanzuretrying to figure it out- i think i'm pretty close actually14:20
QuantumGdid ya get anything working?14:20
kanzurein lolcad, there's a few things "working" but not really meant for end-users yet14:20
QuantumGwhat?14:20
kanzurewell, i don't really expect end-users to directly use the STEP API i wrote14:21
kanzurethere's no way they will /want/ to do that14:21
QuantumGany visualization working?14:21
kanzureyeah14:21
kanzurebasic nurbs objects- 2D surfaces, 3D surfaces14:22
kanzureon an unrelated note, someone should do a commit tree visualization of reprap/makerbot and show version derivations14:24
kanzurepresumably you can get this data just by parsing the svn commits but there are various separate firmware versions/projects 14:24
kanzureanyway, seeing that data would be useful14:24
QuantumGidea for you: find a mechanical engineer to make a mecheng 101 tutorial using 3d printing.14:24
kanzurewhy?14:25
QuantumGcause open education is good.. and 3d printing is good.. and it seems the best thing you could teach with 3d printing (other than 3d printing) is mecheng14:26
QuantumGmecheng textbooks include many "thought experiments" which would be a lot more relevant if you had the actual machine in front of you14:26
kanzurei'm in a cranky mood because of all of this plastic fixation14:26
kanzurei'll be better in a few minutes14:27
-!- jmil [~jmil@2001:468:1802:e148:223:32ff:feb1:9dfc] has quit [Quit: jmil]14:56
-!- jmil [~jmil@pool-74-109-65-36.phlapa.east.verizon.net] has joined #hplusroadmap15:53
QuantumGRead my solution to TSA hell.. any volunteers? :) http://bit.ly/cJ8cFC15:56
-!- mheld [~mheld@pool-173-76-224-45.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #hplusroadmap16:04
-!- mheld [~mheld@pool-173-76-224-45.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has left #hplusroadmap []16:04
QuantumGOleg_Vinogradov-Fundamentals_of_Kinematics_and_Dynamics_of_Machines_and_Mechanisms-CRC_Press(2000).pdf http://free-books.dontexist.com/get?nametype=orig&md5=95ECDCD8A7BFC30F0FD66AB3D4FE0C5016:16
-!- Daeken [~Daeken@cpe-68-173-71-162.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #hplusroadmap16:46
-!- Daeken [~Daeken@cpe-68-173-71-162.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit]16:48
-!- Daeken [~Daeken@64.sub-174-252-4.myvzw.com] has joined #hplusroadmap16:49
industromatic"mecheng textbooks include many "thought experiments" which would be a lot more relevant", Yes they would if you could printit out and crush test it, then tweak, crush, tweak, crush, tweak, crush....16:49
-!- phreedom [~quassel@109.254.17.41] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]16:51
QuantumGand that's just statics16:53
kanzurei think a lot of the ng16:54
kanzurei think they should be taught milling and machining16:55
-!- klafka [~klafka@cpe-74-69-50-137.rochester.res.rr.com] has joined #hplusroadmap17:09
-!- wolfspraul [~wolfsprau@lucia.q-ag.de] has joined #hplusroadmap17:09
JayDuggerQuantumG, I don't think your suggestion will work any better than on-line complaints.17:33
JayDuggerBut it made me smile, so not wasted bits.17:33
QuantumGgetting to an actual lawsuit that you can win would be nice17:35
-!- glytch [~elise@pool-71-164-148-252.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #hplusroadmap17:36
kanzurehi glytch 17:37
glytchhi :)17:37
glytchwas just about to come pimp dnaqa.com and get some feedback17:37
glytchpeople with 23andme.com data might wanna check this out. some of the more interesting forum posts i followed on 23andme.com was people asking questions about behavior/traits and listing a few snps or genes they were interested in that might have something to do with those traits. Then a lot of people would respond with their answer to the initial question along with their data for the snps in question. It's pretty obvious a 17:45
glytchisn't a good place for that sort of thing since you have to add all the results up by hand, and each person answering has to go lookup their values for each snp.  DNAqa(dna questions & answers) solves that by letting you pose a question, along with the snps you wanna look at. and then people just answer. the site automatically looks at their genome and pulls in the values for everyone's snps. then starts grouping them by the17:45
glytchanswers and letting you see which values correspond to which answers for the question. ultimately i'd like it to just compare the entire genome of everyone that answers to automatically find the interesting snps/genes, but for now you have to specify which snps. 17:45
glytchi've seen research groups and such doing little surveys and looking for patterns in the genome of the participants that fit their answers to questions, but the largest i've seen so far was like 1,200 genomes in a survey by craig venter(sp?). with dnaqa.com i hope the number of participants can be much larger while allowing anyone to ask any question their interested in. 17:46
glytchalso i've probably used the wrong terms here and there, definitely not a pro in this field :) this is my first bio related project in the process of learning 17:47
glytchi need to make that pitch a little more succint :)17:51
glytchbasically it's for finding patterns in a set of snps in the scope of a question and it's answers...17:53
-!- augur [~augur@129.2.129.32] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]17:54
-!- M-xDaeken [~Daeken@cpe-68-173-71-162.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #hplusroadmap18:03
-!- Daeken [~Daeken@64.sub-174-252-4.myvzw.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]18:06
-!- klafka [~klafka@cpe-74-69-50-137.rochester.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]18:15
-!- memorex [~durp@97.67.109.107] has joined #hplusroadmap18:18
-!- augur [~augur@208.58.6.161] has joined #hplusroadmap18:24
-!- Daeken [~Daeken@83.sub-174-252-19.myvzw.com] has joined #hplusroadmap18:28
-!- M-xDaeken [~Daeken@cpe-68-173-71-162.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]18:29
kanzureok ben is asking for a list of projects that humanity+ should fund18:30
kanzurei'll be assembling it over the next day or so18:31
-!- Daeken [~Daeken@83.sub-174-252-19.myvzw.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]18:36
-!- Daeken [~Daeken@83.sub-174-252-19.myvzw.com] has joined #hplusroadmap18:36
kanzureoh god18:38
kanzurehe's suggesting opencog18:38
kanzurefuck this18:38
kanzurewhat do i do18:42
-!- joshcryer [~g@unaffiliated/joshcryer] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]18:44
-!- JayDugger [~duggerj@pool-173-74-76-197.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]18:50
-!- jennifer2 [~jennifer@70-36-134-52.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has joined #hplusroadmap18:52
-!- jmil [~jmil@pool-74-109-65-36.phlapa.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: jmil]18:52
kanzurei should add http://www.nature.com/nm/journal/v16/n9/full/nm0910-953.html to bit.ly/diybionews18:55
-!- memorex is now known as Aliv418:56
-!- eridu [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/eridu] has joined #hplusroadmap18:58
-!- Aliv4 is now known as Bruns18:59
-!- Daeken [~Daeken@83.sub-174-252-19.myvzw.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]19:00
kanzurehi Bruns 19:01
Brunsheu kanzure19:01
Brunshey*19:01
Brunsd19:02
-!- JayDugger [~duggerj@pool-173-74-76-197.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #hplusroadmap19:28
-!- jmil [~jmil@pool-74-109-65-36.phlapa.east.verizon.net] has joined #hplusroadmap19:32
-!- jmil [~jmil@pool-74-109-65-36.phlapa.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]19:38
-!- eridu [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/eridu] has quit [Quit: Leaving]20:23
-!- Bruns [~durp@97.67.109.107] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]20:27
-!- jmil [~jmil@c-76-124-67-155.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #hplusroadmap20:29
-!- klafka [~klafka@cpe-74-74-152-155.rochester.res.rr.com] has joined #hplusroadmap20:40
kanzurestalk: Luis E. Rodriguez <lrodriguez@kauffman.org>21:13
-!- jmil [~jmil@c-76-124-67-155.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: jmil]21:40
-!- JaredW [~JaredW@219-89-10-78.dialup.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]22:07
-!- JaredW [~JaredW@219-89-10-78.dialup.xtra.co.nz] has joined #hplusroadmap22:08
-!- JaredW [~JaredW@219-89-10-78.dialup.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]22:09
-!- JaredW [~JaredW@219-89-10-78.dialup.xtra.co.nz] has joined #hplusroadmap22:11
-!- JayDugger [~duggerj@pool-173-74-76-197.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]22:23
-!- JayDugger [~duggerj@pool-173-74-76-197.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #hplusroadmap22:32
-!- klafka [~klafka@cpe-74-74-152-155.rochester.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]22:37
-!- Helleshin [~Helleshin@cpe-71-67-103-109.cinci.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]23:30
-!- glytch [~elise@pool-71-164-148-252.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: glytch]23:37
-!- JayDugger [~duggerj@pool-173-74-76-197.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]23:52
--- Log closed Thu Nov 11 00:00:07 2010

Generated by irclog2html.py 2.15.0.dev0 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!