| --- Log opened Sun Nov 21 00:00:08 2010 | ||
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| fenn | "the center bone is positioned between miku's thighs. it will be the bone you move most frequently when you make an animation." | 00:06 |
|---|---|---|
| fenn | pretty amazing that somebody wrote their own inverse kinematics character animator just for miku hatsune music videos | 00:08 |
| fenn | hrm. blender sure has changed a lot since i last used it | 00:17 |
| fenn | http://fennetic.net/irc/miku_blender.png what the heck are all those circles | 00:19 |
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| joshcryer | Axis orientation | 00:41 |
| joshcryer | For the main big one. | 00:41 |
| joshcryer | The other ones are for boning, I believe. | 00:42 |
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| kanzure | fenn: todd offered you a free ticket because they are desperate | 05:15 |
| kanzure | they are expecting you to bring other people | 05:15 |
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| kanzure | r13545 = 2750b9efe107beaab6502e61f9ab6f78bc8f401b (refs/remotes/git-svn) | 05:19 |
| kanzure | why is this taking so long | 05:19 |
| JayDugger | What do you work on, kanzure? | 05:34 |
| kanzure | importing nanoengineer-1 svn into git | 05:51 |
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| JayDugger | Well, it is good work to do. | 06:02 |
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| kanzure | Checking out files: 0% (1357/332181) | 07:13 |
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| kanzure | hi cycon | 07:19 |
| cycon | heya | 07:20 |
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| kanzure | why does so much of my life revolve around paul rothemund | 07:50 |
| kanzure | http://www.nanoengineer-1.net/mediawiki/index.php?title=DNA_Origami_-_Creating_the_Nanorex_logo | 07:50 |
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| JayDugger | Similar interests? | 07:56 |
| kanzure | no | 08:01 |
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| kanzure | okay nanoengineer.git created but i need to figure out how to move it into piny | 08:03 |
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| kanzure | it's still doing something so please be nice to it.. | 08:15 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/cgit/nanoengineer/ | 08:15 |
| kanzure | git clone git://diyhpl.us/nanoengineer | 08:15 |
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| kanzure | haha technologiclee has made tutorials http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqfXzTrwI3c | 08:35 |
| kanzure | http://nanoengineer-1.com/content/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=40&Itemid=50 | 08:44 |
| kanzure | remote: skipping bad filename trunk/cad/tests/AMBER_test_structures/dot_in/opls_unint/TYU_TYROSINE,_UNITED_ATOM_AROMATIC_PARAMETERS.in_frag | 09:01 |
| kanzure | it's still doing something so please be nice to it..? | 09:01 |
| kanzure | blah | 09:01 |
| kanzure | what's wrong with it | 09:01 |
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| kanzure | remote: skipping bad filename trunk/sim/src/parameters/moieties/C=.moi | 09:16 |
| kanzure | ok i guess that's a legitimately bad filename | 09:16 |
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| kanzure | cycon: checkout emokit | 09:40 |
| kanzure | git push done now | 09:45 |
| kanzure | took 30min | 09:45 |
| kanzure | (local push) | 09:45 |
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| cycon | kanzure, nice one, cheers | 12:17 |
| cycon | hmm, actually that looks like just the raw signals with the cracked keys | 12:21 |
| cycon | i'm interested parsing their detections from Python | 12:22 |
| cycon | raw is great if you want to do OpenViBE or BCI2000 or similar software, I'm developing open source software for schools, need to play nice with their license to distribute )c: | 12:23 |
| kanzure | i think there was also something proprietary for openvibe | 12:24 |
| cycon | yeah they have an official driver if you have a research sdk license | 12:24 |
| cycon | which I do... but I want to develop for the consumer and release for schools... so need to wrap their official C++ SDK | 12:25 |
| * cycon shrugs | 12:25 | |
| kanzure | do you have the header files to their SDK | 12:25 |
| cycon | yep | 12:25 |
| kanzure | would you be willing to share those | 12:25 |
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| cycon | heh, I can't .. I know some folks at Emotiv, they'd not appreciate it (c: | 12:26 |
| cycon | just don't want to develop in C++ or .Net for that matter | 12:26 |
| cycon | I mean, it depends what folks are after. If I just wanted to hack, raw eeg + openvibe would be all that was needed, could do detections there | 12:27 |
| cycon | i believe you can do that with the consumer headset + emokit | 12:27 |
| cycon | but if I want to do legit software releases, need to play ball | 12:27 |
| cycon | http://brainstorms.puzzlebox.info | 12:28 |
| cycon | right now supporting NeuroSky because they give you access to their serial protocol including raw eeg and detections | 12:29 |
| cycon | emotiv doesn't follow that model | 12:29 |
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| archels | < fenn> http://www.theaudeo.com/?action=technology | 12:45 |
| archels | I loved this thing from day 1. Awesome that it's now commercially available. | 12:46 |
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| kanzure | QuantumG: why do you have a low opinion of opencog? | 16:21 |
| QuantumG | we're doing this again? ok.. so far as I can tell, no-one uses it. If they do, then they're not exactly advertising the fact. | 16:25 |
| QuantumG | There's a regular bunch of "contributors" who never write a line of code.. they just whine about how its put together. | 16:26 |
| QuantumG | which is not really surprising, because it's put together terribly.. horribly messy code, unnecessary dependencies (boost in particular) which make compilation take hours just to do trivial changes. | 16:27 |
| QuantumG | oh, and at every opportunity the leaders of the project talk about how they can make it less open. | 16:27 |
| QuantumG | that enough? | 16:27 |
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| kanzure | huh? "about how they can make it less open" | 16:31 |
| kanzure | what about the actual functionality? a lot of it seems silghtly redundant or poorly architectured to me | 16:31 |
| QuantumG | "functionality" implies it is good for something | 16:31 |
| QuantumG | as I said, I've not actually seen it do anything | 16:31 |
| drazak | kanzure: are the stepper motors I can get from printers any good? | 16:33 |
| kanzure | i've never used them ask #reprap | 16:34 |
| drazak | no thanks | 16:34 |
| QuantumG | that's not to say no-one has.. perhaps some months of digging could find some applications.. but most likely you'll discover that only the isolated components of the system have gotten any use.. like PLN and MOSES. | 16:34 |
| kanzure | MOSES was something by a microsoft guy actually | 16:36 |
| kanzure | outside of opencog | 16:36 |
| QuantumG | yeah.. PLN was originally called PTL and is more of an opencog native | 16:36 |
| QuantumG | apparently they've done some applications of it to genomics... but so far as I'm aware that code was never made available. | 16:37 |
| kanzure | probably ben's genescient work | 16:41 |
| QuantumG | if someone took opencog and applied it to something, and made that code available as an open source project, it would have a changing effect on the project I think. | 16:42 |
| QuantumG | something people could actually use | 16:42 |
| kanzure | i think it has some grammar parsing stuff somewhere, but i forget | 16:42 |
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| kanzure | matvey (you don't know him) was asking about opencog and i haven't really used it | 16:42 |
| kanzure | so i was hoping to give him deets | 16:42 |
| QuantumG | well, there's code there to do stuff.. if you can get it to work it could save you some time | 16:43 |
| kanzure | ferrouswheel: what do you think? | 16:46 |
| kanzure | i like how the site doesn't actually explain anything | 17:05 |
| QuantumG | http://wiki.opencog.org/w/OpenCog_Prime | 17:06 |
| QuantumG | http://wiki.opencog.org/w/OpenCogPrime:WikiBook | 17:06 |
| QuantumG | ^^ - intention | 17:06 |
| kanzure | oh i guess ther's this http://wiki.opencog.org/w/OpenCog_Framework | 17:08 |
| QuantumG | the goal formation stuff is the most interesting.. because "figuring out how to do stuff" is what AGI is to me. | 17:09 |
| QuantumG | (none of that has been implemented) | 17:12 |
| ferrouswheel | QuantumG: Yup - I'm not writing code, I get someone else to write it and then they commit it... /sarcasm | 17:24 |
| ferrouswheel | but whatever. | 17:25 |
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| ferrouswheel | I'm more concerned about your claim that we are somehow making it less open? | 17:26 |
| drazak | kanzure: how much do you know about memory these days? | 17:33 |
| kanzure | not keeping track at the moment | 17:37 |
| QuantumG | ferrouswheel: I was quoting you | 17:37 |
| ferrouswheel | Really... care to tell me where exactly I made this quote? | 17:39 |
| QuantumG | it was on #opencog.. anyway, are you saying that's not the case? | 17:41 |
| drazak | kanzure: human memory | 17:41 |
| kanzure | drazak: no i mean i haven't been keeping track of human memory stuff lately | 17:42 |
| kanzure | superkuh: maybe you have something | 17:42 |
| QuantumG | "the openness of the project is in question. while OpenCog is open source, they want to keep the frontend hush hush, but Ben thinks we don't need to, and I don't really want to either." - ferrouswheel | 17:43 |
| ferrouswheel | QuantumG: I have no intention of making it "less open". | 17:43 |
| ferrouswheel | That's a research project using OpenCog as the backend reasoning system. | 17:44 |
| drazak | kanzure: oh ok | 17:44 |
| drazak | kanzure: how would you classify almost perfect visual memory recall? atleast, for written things | 17:44 |
| QuantumG | yeah, I was just looking at that and thinking I probably read too much into it. | 17:44 |
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| QuantumG | if someone took opencog and applied it to something, and made that code available as an open source project, it would have a changing effect on the project I think. something people could actually use. <- any part of that you disagree with ferrouswheel? | 17:46 |
| kanzure | drazak: eidetic? | 17:46 |
| futuresoon | open cog is the "strong" AI for open simulator right? | 17:47 |
| ferrouswheel | OpenCog itself will remain open, I'm just saying we're trying to push to make the entire research project open... but the funding sources are cagey since open source is kind of new to them. | 17:47 |
| drazak | kanzure: that's what I thought | 17:47 |
| ferrouswheel | QuantumG: that makes sense, I don't dispute that OpenCog's functionality is somewhat obtuse at the moment. | 17:50 |
| futuresoon | something about economics of attention... or something | 17:50 |
| futuresoon | didn't invest my attention in it | 17:50 |
| futuresoon | ferrouswheel: basically you're saying that without the research, people wouldn't know how architectural decisions were made? | 17:51 |
| futuresoon | well that makes sense | 17:51 |
| ferrouswheel | QuantumG: We'll clearly document the network protocol for this HK embodiment project at any rate, so it shouldn't be too hard for someone to mock up an OSS frontend. | 17:52 |
| QuantumG | there was someone in #opencog the other day ranting about "architectural decisions".. in the end I basically had to tell him to go away and write some code or shut up :) | 17:52 |
| ferrouswheel | futuresoon: I'm not too sure what you mean? We try to explain the decisions we make, but sometimes these decisions aren't clear because it's research. | 17:54 |
| ferrouswheel | QuantumG: Which is understandable, but he's never contributed to OpenCog and thinks he should be given some (non-existant) shares in the project. | 17:54 |
| QuantumG | oh, *that* guy is still around? | 17:55 |
| QuantumG | sheesh | 17:55 |
| ferrouswheel | (and it saved me from telling him the same ;p) | 17:55 |
| futuresoon | is opencog the one where you can train your pet in second life? | 17:55 |
| ferrouswheel | futuresoon: yeah, although multiverse is the online world that's been developed the most. | 17:55 |
| futuresoon | oh yeah, i remember multiverse being a reason linden labs open sourced their thingamajig | 17:56 |
| futuresoon | so that's coming along huh? | 17:56 |
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| ferrouswheel | futuresoon: I'm going to be building on that to create (initially stupid) human-ish characters. | 17:57 |
| ferrouswheel | anyhow, now I have to write some actual code ;-) | 17:57 |
| QuantumG | futuresoon: I've not spoken to anyone who claims to have gotten it working | 17:57 |
| QuantumG | I've heard ferrouswheel say he couldn't get it working :) | 17:57 |
| futuresoon | there used to be a guy who used to work for OpenCyc doing a RDF/Java text based dialog that was supposed to write its own code | 17:59 |
| futuresoon | wonder what happened to that | 17:59 |
| ferrouswheel | QuantumG: yeah, I struggled with it... I think various changes have caused it to be unreliable since it hasn't been maintained since the Brazilian guys stopped working on it. Hope to change that here... (really going now :p) | 17:59 |
| QuantumG | "Brazilian guys" brings back more OpenCog bad memories | 18:00 |
| QuantumG | the nicest thing I can say about OpenCog if anyone asks me is: there might be some code in there you can use | 18:01 |
| QuantumG | and I think that's the intention | 18:01 |
| futuresoon | obviously we should just have really good weak AI | 18:03 |
| QuantumG | aka ROS? | 18:03 |
| futuresoon | ros? | 18:04 |
| futuresoon | robot os? | 18:04 |
| QuantumG | ya | 18:04 |
| futuresoon | i mean text based, not spatial awareness | 18:04 |
| futuresoon | but yeah that too | 18:04 |
| QuantumG | you mean chatbot? | 18:04 |
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| futuresoon | i like one called SIRI, but it's iphone only, closed | 18:04 |
| kanzure | cook alert | 18:05 |
| futuresoon | cook or kook | 18:05 |
| kanzure | both! | 18:05 |
| futuresoon | like swedish chef? | 18:05 |
| futuresoon | that reminds me, there's a great swedish chef chatbot | 18:05 |
| futuresoon | if you limited an AI's responses to that it "must only do things that are probably useful" then it will automatically seem smarter than a human | 18:07 |
| futuresoon | even if it's a "weak" AI | 18:07 |
| futuresoon | other than that, partial probabilities, a model of causality written in RDF sound useful | 18:08 |
| kanzure | what is it with you people and RDF, SQL, XML, and SPARQL? ugh | 18:09 |
| QuantumG | try it, apply it to something practical that proves it works by actually being useful, publish. | 18:09 |
| futuresoon | the biggest criticism of RDF i've personally heard is that it would be hard to input cause your immediate output doesn't benefit anyone | 18:10 |
| futuresoon | QuantumG: i just stay on top of the developments of others in this area | 18:10 |
| futuresoon | (to some extent) | 18:10 |
| futuresoon | whether you call it RDF the point is to have a DAG of causal relationships with partial probabilities, which is the thing i think is useful | 18:11 |
| QuantumG | maybe if you had a few casual relationships you wouldn't be such a dag. | 18:12 |
| kanzure | QuantumG: be nice | 18:12 |
| QuantumG | :) | 18:12 |
| futuresoon | word. | 18:13 |
| futuresoon | so what's the coolest demo of something on ROS? | 18:16 |
| QuantumG | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cslPMzklVo | 18:16 |
| QuantumG | has lots | 18:16 |
| futuresoon | that's really cool | 18:19 |
| futuresoon | that's now a huge part of my future plans | 18:20 |
| QuantumG | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3slROzVNbc seems like an interesting place to integrate goal learning | 18:20 |
| futuresoon | goal learning? | 18:22 |
| futuresoon | is that like finding out intermediate goals that further some user-defined end goal? | 18:23 |
| QuantumG | that's a good description yes | 18:23 |
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| futuresoon | oh so PR2 can use a lot of cores? | 18:28 |
| futuresoon | i mean robots in general could use a lot of cores | 18:28 |
| futuresoon | that's pretty great | 18:28 |
| QuantumG | yeah.. it's a totally distributed architecture | 18:29 |
| QuantumG | message/subscriber based | 18:29 |
| futuresoon | message like i could get the state of an actuator like an rss feed? | 18:30 |
| QuantumG | I imagine you could write an rss feed from the messages, sure | 18:31 |
| QuantumG | I imagine someone has | 18:32 |
| futuresoon | whoa this is so weird---willow garage has something called texai, and texai.org is something i've been following and it's different i guess? | 18:33 |
| QuantumG | heh, yes | 18:33 |
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| futuresoon | what's really funny is that all this stuff is the stuff i thought microsoft would still do as all the simple software got open sourced | 18:35 |
| QuantumG | microsoft are trying to position themselves to provide the operating systems for robots | 18:35 |
| QuantumG | they have their own products. | 18:36 |
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| futuresoon | http://www.hplusmagazine.com/editors-blog/more-famous-lady-gaga <---- this article is missing siri.com | 19:07 |
| futuresoon | siri is a better example of apple's "knowledge navigator" | 19:07 |
| kanzure | apple kook detectors on | 19:08 |
| kanzure | let me guess.. you bought the siri app | 19:08 |
| QuantumG | kanzure: ya think you could get a 3d printer through airport security? | 19:09 |
| kanzure | there's a few at LA if that's what you're asking | 19:09 |
| kanzure | "look! i can print GIANT DILDOS on the 3h flight! be careful i might fuck you with them" | 19:10 |
| QuantumG | 3d printing a gun would be hilarious (for a few minutes) | 19:10 |
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| QuantumG | but I guess you could just carve a realistic one out of soap using a plastic spoon | 19:10 |
| kanzure | don't forget if it was in plastic it would be recyclable | 19:14 |
| kanzure | The Green Terror | 19:14 |
| kanzure | not affiliated with the green lantern or his subsidaries | 19:14 |
| QuantumG | yeah, you could hijack the plane and then fly around replacing parts of the cockpit with 3d printed alternatives.. that'll show em | 19:14 |
| futuresoon | kanzure, no i didn't buy the siri app, it's free for iphone users, and i don't have an iphone i'm getting a droid | 19:18 |
| futuresoon | when apple bought siri i was very disappointed, not least because it was a 700 million dollar project by DARPA and therefore should be public domain | 19:18 |
| futuresoon | is there something else like siri? i haven't heard of it yet | 19:21 |
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| futuresoon | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LP6dIEb-S7c | 19:34 |
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| --- Log closed Mon Nov 22 00:00:07 2010 | ||
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