--- Log opened Wed Jan 12 00:00:04 2011 | ||
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fenn | omg boyden is using arduino to do data collection? | 00:18 |
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fenn | i've been looking at the thorlabs catalog.. lots of expensive sexy optical bench and fiber stuff | 00:19 |
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Utopiah | (one more link on computational physiology http://www.rle.mit.edu/cpci/ ) | 01:49 |
joshcryer | http://www.thestar.com/news/world/article/919846--this-ark-is-green-floats-and-could-house-10-000-people | 02:19 |
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Utopiah | worm factory http://www.economist.com/node/17618488 | 03:09 |
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archels | Utopiah: nice | 03:33 |
Utopiah | (don't look in the comment but somebody complained about... not being nice to the worms and nature ;) | 03:33 |
Lukas__ | Good morning | 03:35 |
Utopiah | ./skdb search electricity-meter-interface | 03:40 |
archels | Utopiah: Best not tell hir about what they (we) do to fluffy little kittens and bunnies. | 03:47 |
archels | ``testing drugs on such wont bring an drug breach throw'' | 03:49 |
Utopiah | http://www.ikeahackers.net funny | 04:11 |
Lukas__ | I like clever ways to use space | 04:17 |
* bkero is ashamed to have inadvertantly missed Carl Sagan's work until recently. | 04:29 | |
bkero | *inadverently | 04:29 |
Lukas__ | Sagan is amazing | 04:47 |
Lukas__ | http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/12/AR2009071201977.html?hpid=topnews&sid=ST2009071http://www.http://www.washingtonpost.com:80/ac2/wp-dyn?node=admin/registration/register&sub=AR | 05:01 |
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kanzure | :/ http://www.kybernetica.com/petition_against_initiative_on_synthetic_biology_climate_connections-archive.html | 06:20 |
kanzure | oops. spam. don't click | 06:20 |
kanzure | here we go: | 06:21 |
kanzure | http://climatevoices.wordpress.com/2011/01/10/petition-against-initiative-on-synthetic-biology/ | 06:21 |
kanzure | petition: http://www.testbiotech.org/en/signonline | 06:21 |
Lukas__ | D: | 06:26 |
Lukas__ | what the? | 06:26 |
Lukas__ | gods damn it | 06:27 |
Lukas__ | Regulation is important, but I fear this could go a bit far | 06:30 |
kanzure | about 2 GB uploaded now.. http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers/ | 06:34 |
Lukas__ | Sweet | 06:35 |
Lukas__ | thanks | 06:35 |
kanzure | at this rate it will only take forever | 06:48 |
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gloop | http://www.sciencefriday.com/program/archives/201101072 | 06:48 |
kanzure | what is it? | 06:49 |
gloop | citizen science in the news- not so much DIYBio | 06:50 |
gloop | moreso milkywayproject | 06:50 |
gloop | thuogh i could be wrong. i was thinking of adding it to the openwetware list | 06:50 |
kanzure | oh, that's just "use people as gruntwork" and the hype of crowdsourcing | 06:51 |
Lukas__ | agreed | 06:53 |
Lukas__ | still useful though (like the new nebula that was found the other day) | 06:53 |
gloop | yeah | 07:00 |
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kanzure | how to read a spectrogram http://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/~robh/howto.html | 08:17 |
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kanzure | JayDugger: i didn't claim all of his files were lost .. just that his site was down. | 08:41 |
kanzure | it's back up: http://www.aleph.se/Trans/ | 08:41 |
kanzure | but here's a mirror anyway :) http://anders.diyhpl.us/mirror.tar.gz | 08:44 |
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kanzure | http://diyhpl.us:9000/s/thomas-thwaites-how-i-built-a-toaster-from-scratch-video-on-ted-com | 09:51 |
kanzure | biking t-rex http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTYJm4Jx7LU | 09:54 |
kanzure | kickstarter project to make it: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1542422025/raise-the-rex | 09:54 |
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kanzure | fenn: next step is fixing up my crappy apt-get client thing.. in skdb/clients/skdb-get.py | 10:51 |
kanzure | i think a one-page spec on a good package resolver-fetcher might be appropriate, or just writing something that doesn't suck | 10:51 |
kanzure | including where to store packages on the file system, where to store a user's inventory list of tools that might not be packages yet, repository urls, etc. | 10:52 |
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fenn | jesus fucking christ, $2500 to weld a bike on a pole? | 11:13 |
Lukas__ | D: | 11:14 |
Lukas__ | This out of hand | 11:14 |
Lukas__ | That* | 11:14 |
kanzure | fenn: it's kickstarter, it's magical like that! | 11:17 |
kanzure | lasersaur got $20k and they haven't done /shit/ | 11:17 |
fenn | we now have "business" class internet connection here at langton; supposedly 90Mbit down and 9Mbit up, of course that's faster than wifi | 11:35 |
Lukas__ | -_________- http://hplusmagazine.com/editors-blog/searching-phenomena-physics-may-serve-bases-femtometer-scale-technology | 11:39 |
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fenn | why dont they just make that an article instead of a "blog entry" | 11:42 |
fenn | of course "now that nanotech is well launched" just proves how disconnected from reality some of the writers are | 11:44 |
kanzure | fenn: they don't understand the difference between articles and 'blog entries' and so on | 11:45 |
kanzure | dunno if you noticed but half the stuff is on /articles and the other stuff is on /editors-blog | 11:46 |
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kanzure | yeah ben just wrote a femtotech article | 11:46 |
* kanzure is converting hplusmagazine.com from drupal to wordpress this month | 11:47 | |
Lukas__ | It started off decently, then went to complete speculation towards the end | 11:47 |
kanzure | i got fed up with h+ magazine work and told them i'll have to start charging them.. | 11:47 |
kanzure | so i'm getting paid to do it :P | 11:47 |
fenn | robert forward wrote a lot about making devices/computers out of ultradense matter and various subatomic particles, but he didn't call it femtotech | 11:48 |
kanzure | i'll be giving a technical presentation on nanoengineer-1 sometime later this at a foresight conference | 11:49 |
kanzure | (i figure that's more helpful than complaining about ben goertzel spending his time on a femtotech article) | 11:49 |
fenn | have you gotten it to run yet? :P | 11:51 |
kanzure | once or twice | 11:52 |
kanzure | i still need to setup nightly snapshots and more infrastructure stuff like the bug repository | 11:52 |
fenn | excellent | 11:52 |
fenn | have you tried out the dna origami stuff? | 11:52 |
kanzure | no. cadnano probably does that more effectively at this point. | 11:52 |
fenn | i still don't know what "adobe air" is | 11:53 |
kanzure | vendor lock in bullshit | 11:54 |
fenn | it's like flash, but you need a separate application to run it? wtf is the point of that | 11:54 |
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jrayhawk | i might actually use flash applications if flash were reliably able to execute them outside of a browser | 12:36 |
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kanzure | hi timschmidt | 12:36 |
timschmidt | hey | 12:36 |
kanzure | you should bug fenn about skdb-client.py and how much it sucks | 12:36 |
kanzure | (since fenn is around today) | 12:36 |
timschmidt | heh | 12:36 |
jrayhawk | that's how java's always worked | 12:36 |
timschmidt | won't ^ that suffice? | 12:36 |
kanzure | timschmidt: it's in skdb/clients/skdb-get.py | 12:36 |
kanzure | it's just a little crappy client i wrote a long time ago | 12:36 |
kanzure | and it's pathetic | 12:37 |
kanzure | jrayhawk: maybe you can complain about it too! | 12:37 |
kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/cgit/skdb/plain/clients/skdb-get.py | 12:38 |
fenn | i don't see anything wrong with how it's written; maybe needs a few more sanity checks, and has to tie into dependency resolution somehow | 12:44 |
kanzure | last time i checked for "reusable package managers that aren't too heavily tied into their own thing" was back in 2008 or 2009 | 12:46 |
kanzure | maybe the situation has improved? | 12:46 |
kanzure | heh i should be more cynical | 12:46 |
fenn | i dont think it makes sense to use an external/existing package manager | 12:48 |
kanzure | is there a particular manager that is worth copying more than the others? | 12:48 |
fenn | uh. maybe? | 12:49 |
fenn | i'm most familiar with apt, having never been particularly fond of needing yet another fucking package manager for whatever language of the day decides they will stop making debian packages for their software | 12:49 |
jrayhawk | DARCS was close to good, but still not as good as dpkg. | 12:50 |
fenn | i.e. CPAN, python eggs, asdf | 12:50 |
kanzure | gems | 12:51 |
fenn | darcs is a version control system, not a package manager | 12:51 |
jrayhawk | errr cabal | 12:51 |
jrayhawk | sorry | 12:51 |
jrayhawk | i should probably eat | 12:51 |
kanzure | i think there should be a short spec for "how to manage skdb packages on your system" | 12:52 |
kanzure | writing a spec for a package manager might be overdoing it especially if writing the package manager itself would take less time | 12:52 |
jrayhawk | "We can always standardize later!" is the Perl and Ruby philosphy! | 12:52 |
kanzure | jrayhawk: we have a package spec: http://diyhpl.us/cgit/skdb/plain/doc/package_spec.yaml | 12:53 |
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* fenn looks around expectantly | 12:54 | |
fenn | i know i left my chocolate covered acai berries around here somewhere! | 12:54 |
kanzure | fenn: before i ship your hard drive can i put some stuff on there i need you to upload? :/ | 12:57 |
kanzure | 1 GB/night is really just.. useless. | 12:57 |
fenn | heh ok | 13:01 |
fenn | how much? | 13:01 |
kanzure | oh just my papers (12 GB) | 13:01 |
fenn | certainly | 13:01 |
kanzure | jrayhawk: do you think there should be a spec for the end-user client? | 13:06 |
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fenn | i forget if i ever mentioned mark carranza's associative memory system http://quantifiedself.com/2009/09/the-social-memex/ | 13:59 |
Lukas__ | woah | 14:01 |
Lukas__ | quite interesting | 14:01 |
fenn | another thing that everyone should know about http://code.google.com/apis/predict/ | 14:02 |
kanzure | wut? http://www.shapeways.com/blog/archives/714-White-House-commissions-report-on-3-D-printers.html | 14:02 |
kanzure | oh hod lipson's thing was for the whitehouse? that's nice. | 14:02 |
fenn | "3d printers: terrorists have them" | 14:02 |
kanzure | as bdesk says: food is dual-use because either the good guys can eat it or the bad guys can eat it | 14:03 |
kanzure | quick! shut down every molecular gastronomy lab in the nation! | 14:03 |
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fenn | they're using it to make mind-altering cocktails, like whisky with coffee caviar! | 14:04 |
fenn | i wonder if anything will come of that white house report | 14:05 |
kanzure | hod lipson's usual? he seems to do ok | 14:05 |
kanzure | matt was telling me once he thinks of hod as a (friendly) rival | 14:05 |
kanzure | where's matt's 3d printer? | 14:05 |
kanzure | it would be hilarious if i go work for hod actually | 14:06 |
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kanzure | commercial 3d printing competition prize money ... stuff. http://www.dimensionprinting.com/extreme-redesign/extreme-redesign-main.aspx | 14:27 |
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augur | anyone interested in whuffies and similar ideas? | 16:00 |
augur | whuffie, not whuffies x3 | 16:01 |
kanzure | googele global science fair http://www.google.com/events/sciencefair/ | 16:01 |
kanzure | augur: ybit is | 16:02 |
augur | hooray! | 16:03 |
augur | ybit: hi | 16:03 |
kanzure | fail :/ | 16:15 |
kanzure | *google global science fair | 16:15 |
kanzure | so.. anyone? write a specification for an skdb package manager? yes/no? | 16:22 |
AlonzoTG | om | 16:26 |
jrayhawk | It's probably best to just get something out the door as soon as possible. | 16:26 |
jrayhawk | skdb is a fairly experimental concept; not much point specifying the results before you get a chance to run it. | 16:27 |
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kanzure | jrayhawk: hm, yes but we've also never enumerated the exact set of features the package manager should have | 16:39 |
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AlonzoTG | Why are we talking about package managers when we should be talking about bionic boobies! =P | 16:40 |
kanzure | AlonzoTG: you're lame | 16:41 |
AlonzoTG | =\ | 16:41 |
jrayhawk | bionic boobies would be useful for fundraising purposes, presumably | 16:41 |
Lukas__ | :D | 16:42 |
kanzure | skdb install death-star | 16:42 |
kanzure | ^how's that for fundraising | 16:42 |
Lukas__ | I prefer teh boobies :D | 16:43 |
jrayhawk | what if the death star were squeezable | 16:43 |
kanzure | .. near death star? | 16:43 |
QuantumG | headache star | 16:44 |
kanzure | http://futurama.wikia.com/wiki/Near_Death_Star | 16:44 |
AlonzoTG | I moderate http://groups.yahoo.com/group/boobgirls/ and http://groups.yahoo.com/group/breaststoobigtocarry/ | 16:44 |
Lukas__ | xD | 16:46 |
gloop | near-sighted star | 16:46 |
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Lukas__ | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUR6rO90dFM&feature=sub | 16:52 |
Lukas__ | I didn't know civilians can purchase drones | 16:52 |
kanzure | what is it? | 16:52 |
Lukas__ | P.W. Singer discussing the use of drones in the civilian sector | 16:55 |
Lukas__ | people buying their own drones | 16:55 |
Lukas__ | law enforcement using them | 16:55 |
Lukas__ | etc. | 16:55 |
gloop | they're used in ecology for finding forest | 16:55 |
gloop | trees missing, etc | 16:55 |
Lukas__ | and people growing drugs in the forest | 16:55 |
gloop | anyone know of RepLabs working on printing water filters | 16:56 |
kanzure | gloop: water liberation prize on gadaprize.org might be getting funding soon | 16:57 |
gloop | that's cool, i was just wondering if anyone has worked on filters yet | 16:57 |
gloop | i was thinking of something like a sari cloth | 16:59 |
gloop | which can be folded 4 times | 16:59 |
gloop | to prevent cholera | 16:59 |
gloop | but if a filter could be washed. could sonication work? or ion exchange? | 17:01 |
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gloop | how could it be reused without the material being degraded? | 17:02 |
kanzure | jrayhawk: i want to buy some stats from okcupid.com, do you think those goons are approachable? | 17:03 |
gloop | they have a blog with some already | 17:04 |
jrayhawk | that's a dandy question. I expect you're better off approaching them as a researcher rather than as a commercial effort initially. | 17:04 |
kanzure | they haven't made what i need public | 17:04 |
kanzure | jrayhawk: why's that? | 17:04 |
jrayhawk | Almost everyone views research as altrustic and altruism as moral, whereas relatively few have the same view on commercialism. | 17:05 |
fenn | http://www.openni.org/gallery i got a kick out of the miku miku dance at least | 17:06 |
jrayhawk | Not sure how to plausibly present yourself as a researcher, though. Usually it helps to be associated with either a non-profit or a university. | 17:06 |
kanzure | fenn: ha with kinect | 17:06 |
kanzure | thanks jrayhawk. associating this data seeking activity with a non-profit is a bad idea | 17:07 |
kanzure | in this case. | 17:07 |
kanzure | fenn: we need to get dick van dyke in front of a kinect | 17:10 |
fenn | so he can be laser evaporated into the world of tron, never to return? | 17:11 |
kanzure | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2fMlg5WTMM | 17:11 |
kanzure | yes | 17:11 |
gloop | this irradiates water with UV: http://www.nationaloutdoors.net/files/pictures/gearreviews/All%20Clear%20UV%20Water%20Purifier_72%20%28Custom%29.jpg | 17:12 |
jrayhawk | people think that was scripted, but that's just a typical day in the life of dick van dyke | 17:12 |
kanzure | fenn: how about using this for manufacturing simulation stuff? | 17:12 |
AlonzoTG | Mary Poppins is a 10. | 17:14 |
QuantumG | the original point of the kinect was kinematic motion capture of the human body.. now it's been hacked to work on the PC and there's drivers for it that do that stuff (I've seen them working), is there actually software for the PC that lets you animate characters with it? | 17:14 |
kanzure | QuantumG: that's what fenn was linking to | 17:15 |
kanzure | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQREhd9iT38 | 17:15 |
kanzure | except a more useful link. | 17:15 |
QuantumG | awesome.. now they need to make it multiplayer | 17:18 |
QuantumG | streaming motion capture | 17:18 |
kanzure | karate? | 17:18 |
fenn | huh. openni is funded/developed by willow garage? | 17:18 |
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kanzure | how did they convince people to give them money, again? "we're building robots"? | 17:19 |
fenn | somebody's gotta do it | 17:19 |
QuantumG | http://www.realxtend.org/ <- for example, add kinect support to this | 17:19 |
ybit | augur: hello :) | 17:20 |
fenn | QuantumG: probably because nobody's ever heard of realxtend | 17:21 |
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augur | ybit: hey | 17:24 |
augur | so im interested in the idea of building a a whuffie system | 17:24 |
fenn | why not join the existing whuffie project | 17:25 |
augur | is there one? | 17:25 |
fenn | did you even google "whuffie"? | 17:25 |
augur | i did! :| | 17:26 |
fenn | -_- | 17:26 |
kanzure | note: google results are customized to each user these days | 17:26 |
augur | ahh, this whuffie bank thing | 17:26 |
kanzure | so it's not really a good standard measure of what results pop up | 17:26 |
augur | is that what you mean | 17:26 |
ybit | http://metacurrency.org | 17:27 |
ybit | augur ^ | 17:27 |
ybit | augur: also, #bitcoin | 17:27 |
kanzure | http://p2pfoundation.net/ will have stuff too. | 17:28 |
augur | er.. | 17:28 |
augur | bitcoin isnt whuffie.. | 17:28 |
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ybit | yes i know | 17:29 |
augur | so then .. | 17:29 |
ybit | whuffie is an alt currency, and i don't know what you know so, i'm just giving you stuff to look at | 17:30 |
augur | whuffie isn't really an alt /currency/ as such | 17:31 |
augur | i mean, its been described as such | 17:31 |
fenn | agreed, it's not a currency, though that's the only metaphor people seem to understand | 17:31 |
ybit | it's a reputation based currency, so yeah it is :) | 17:32 |
gloop | http://www.media-art-online.org/iwat/ is | 17:32 |
fenn | bitcoin is probably the only realistic plan for a non-fiat non-physical currency | 17:33 |
fenn | i'm told it has horrible code quality though | 17:34 |
fenn | but that can be fixed, if anyone cared | 17:34 |
gloop | but it's still based on membership | 17:34 |
gloop | the best currency is relativistic | 17:34 |
ybit | i'll join the conversation later | 17:34 |
* ybit goes back to his spanish lesson | 17:35 | |
gloop | like Einstein's general relativity or special relativity | 17:35 |
augur | i think its important to remember that whuffie isnt just a "currency" | 17:35 |
augur | i mean, the extent to which it's a currency depends on the fact that the environs is rather communist in nature, where marx's "to each according to his needs" principle is fleshed out by using whuffie as a measure of worthiness | 17:36 |
augur | more than anything, whuffie is a reputation system that happens to be the primary way a non-monetary economy is mediated | 17:40 |
augur | so things like bitcoin and metacurrency sem to be .. not remotely whuffie-ish | 17:40 |
fenn | correct | 17:43 |
* fenn mumbles something about reprapping a pipettor | 17:44 | |
AlonzoTG | Yeah, lots of ppl are going to be in the market for a new currency sooon cuz the FRN is toast. =| | 17:45 |
augur | also, whuffiebank doesnt seem to implement actual whuffie | 17:45 |
AlonzoTG | I'm going to have to step up my efforts to lighten my pockets of it. | 17:45 |
augur | and it doesnt seem to implement it in a way i'd like to see | 17:46 |
augur | its too built around bolting itself onto particular services | 17:47 |
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gloop | a pipettor could use a calibrator too | 17:50 |
gleapsite | Hello. I'm looking for Bryan Bishop. | 17:50 |
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SamuelBeckett | Hello. I'm looking for Godot. | 17:50 |
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gloop | I'm waiting for Guffman | 17:51 |
gleapsite | supposedly he's written some python scripts that integrate with the Emotiv headset | 17:51 |
QuantumG | kanzure | 17:52 |
gloop | gleapsite: you're looking for kanzure | 17:53 |
gleapsite | quantumG, gloop: thanks. will PM him. | 17:53 |
gleapsite | so this channel... DIY biohacking? | 17:56 |
gloop | how often are people prime minister'd? (PM'd) | 17:56 |
gloop | i wouldnt want to be p'ministered | 17:56 |
gloop | biology, RepRaps | 17:57 |
gloop | transhumanism | 17:57 |
gloop | nanotech | 17:57 |
gleapsite | me and my friend have self-implanted RFID ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idlodc7RXs4 ) , and I've been considering going to Steven Haworth for a neodymium figertip implant | 17:57 |
gloop | AI | 17:57 |
gleapsite | I also have a makerbot, but... its a finicky robot who hates more more often than not | 17:58 |
gloop | what do you plan to make with the makerbot | 18:03 |
gleapsite | currently, I'm reproducing wooden puzzles | 18:03 |
gloop | neat | 18:03 |
gleapsite | I've printed out a car dock for my phone | 18:03 |
gleapsite | shot glasses | 18:03 |
gleapsite | tarp clamps | 18:04 |
gleapsite | (for a LARPing compground) | 18:04 |
gleapsite | really more of a shanty town, but no one lives there full time | 18:04 |
gloop | tarp clamps for LARP? that rhymes | 18:05 |
gleapsite | yes. I also try to make music... but I think I need to learn a lot more to be good at that | 18:06 |
gleapsite | I mostly play w/ hardware hacking WRT music. turned a guitar hero controller into an instrument, been hacking bleeplabs' nebulophone | 18:08 |
gleapsite | /cred. | 18:10 |
gloop | tell me about this shanty town. sounds interesting | 18:12 |
gleapsite | ok | 18:12 |
kanzure | hi gleapsite | 18:12 |
kanzure | i'm bryan | 18:12 |
gleapsite | so we do this larping thing | 18:12 |
gleapsite | foam swords, shields spears arrows | 18:12 |
gleapsite | gloop, lemme talk to brian first | 18:13 |
kanzure | gleapsite: http://github.com/daeken/emokit is better at this first | 18:13 |
gleapsite | bryan* | 18:13 |
kanzure | *at this point | 18:13 |
gleapsite | ok. so are these stand alone or are they hitting emotiv code? | 18:14 |
kanzure | emotiv did not write this software | 18:14 |
kanzure | basically: daeken extracted the DES key, and then decrypted data coming from the headset, then figured out where the variables were in the data | 18:14 |
kanzure | then you can hook this up to other open source software like openvibe for analysis | 18:14 |
gleapsite | gotcha | 18:15 |
gleapsite | so then does this have the thought/pattern recognition capability or the emotiv suite? | 18:15 |
kanzure | eh sort of.. the emotiv headset isn't that fantastic | 18:15 |
kanzure | basically you can do the same on your own with a few guassians or something | 18:16 |
gloop | well got to go | 18:16 |
gleapsite | meaning build your own headset? | 18:16 |
kanzure | gleapsite: btw, yeah, do-it-yourself biohacking happens in this channel | 18:16 |
kanzure | gleapsite: no.. meaning "use open source software instead of emotiv's crap" | 18:16 |
gleapsite | ok. | 18:16 |
gleapsite | so you're saying the software isn't that great | 18:17 |
kanzure | right | 18:17 |
gleapsite | have you done anything interesting w/ these python scripts? | 18:17 |
kanzure | nope not yet. daeken took what i started and turned it into something usable. | 18:18 |
gleapsite | I see | 18:18 |
gleapsite | how about embedded systems (like openembedded linux on a gumstix or something) has anyone tried to get this running on something like that? | 18:19 |
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gleapsite | or does the signal processing/memory requirements preclude something like that currently? | 18:23 |
ybit | augur: whoofie fits into the metacurrency idea, metacurrency's idea about currency isn't the kind that is typically thought of. whuffie would be a reputation based "currency" in this system. | 18:24 |
augur | ybit: perhaps. but its only barely a currency | 18:25 |
ybit | ~~~ :) | 18:26 |
augur | its really a reputation system which, due to the nature of doctorow's imagined brand of communism, happens to influence acquisition like currency does | 18:27 |
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kanzure | gleapsite: well, it would require bluetooth certainly | 18:29 |
kanzure | if you want something more hackable i'd recommend openeeg | 18:29 |
gleapsite | which means building my own headset. | 18:30 |
fenn | i think gumstix would work fine | 18:32 |
ybit | Big Red ftw | 18:32 |
gleapsite | w/ emokit and an emotiv? | 18:32 |
fenn | fftw is pretty awesome, and your fft is only like 20Hz or so | 18:32 |
fenn | you could probably do it on an arduino | 18:33 |
gleapsite | hmm. I've only used numpy's fft prior to this | 18:33 |
fenn | er, except for all the decryption etc | 18:33 |
gleapsite | and you only get 8bits | 18:34 |
fenn | anyway gumstix already has a bluetooth host stack all set up and ready to go for you | 18:35 |
gleapsite | and openembedded+linux | 18:35 |
gleapsite | +python | 18:35 |
fenn | i'm partial to the beagleboard myself, less fiddly connectors | 18:36 |
fenn | anyway, gotta go, bbl | 18:36 |
kanzure | cya fenn | 18:36 |
gleapsite | so... emokit will work with the 299$ version of the EPOC? | 18:36 |
kanzure | yes | 18:36 |
gleapsite | no need for the sdk | 18:37 |
gleapsite | excellent | 18:37 |
gleapsite | So my idea, is to try and communicate with the outside world from within a dream | 18:38 |
kanzure | do you do lucid dreaming? | 18:39 |
gleapsite | yes. | 18:39 |
gleapsite | been keeping a dream journal for years | 18:39 |
kanzure | cool :) | 18:39 |
gleapsite | and I've made a simple inducer | 18:39 |
gleapsite | adruino+LED | 18:39 |
gleapsite | a simple timer that starts pulsing the LED 80 minutes after its powered on | 18:40 |
gleapsite | you could see it through your eyelids so your brain would incorporate it into the dream | 18:41 |
gleapsite | after that you just need to train your conscious mind to recognize that as a dreamsign | 18:41 |
kanzure | right | 18:42 |
gleapsite | I'm able to self induce now | 18:42 |
kanzure | i don't lucid dream (or dream all that often), but my mom does- to an impressive extent | 18:42 |
kanzure | she does lucid dreaming, sleep walking, sleep talking, sleep breaking up with boyfriends, she claims she does a full day's worth of work in her sleep | 18:42 |
gleapsite | yeah | 18:42 |
kanzure | it would be interesting to see if you could correlate REM with anything in particular | 18:43 |
kanzure | i.e. if during lucid dreaming REM movements are related to dream-related saccades or eye movements | 18:43 |
kanzure | because that's a fairly easy thing to track with eeg | 18:43 |
gleapsite | but when you wake you'd have to correlate the data w/ your memory of the dream | 18:44 |
gleapsite | I guess you could program some sort of "bookmark" function into the eeg recognition | 18:45 |
kanzure | it takes a lot of sessions of biofeedback to get your self trained on eeg, i dunno how you'd approach that at all for dream-based training | 18:45 |
kanzure | except maybe different LED colors or sequences, but that's probably annoying? | 18:46 |
gleapsite | I'd train outside the dream | 18:46 |
kanzure | yes but does eeg training carry over to dream-based use? i suspect not, and you would need new training | 18:47 |
gleapsite | ? | 18:47 |
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kanzure | gleapsite: have you ever trained yourself with eeg? | 18:47 |
gleapsite | no I haven't. | 18:47 |
gleapsite | I just ordered an emotive tonight | 18:48 |
kanzure | i see, okay | 18:48 |
kanzure | well, eeg training is super boring to watch but if you want a heads up you can find tons of eeg training session videos on youtube | 18:48 |
gleapsite | ok | 18:49 |
kanzure | it takes 50 to 100 attempts to calibrate your brain to the system via biofeedback | 18:49 |
kanzure | especially with emotiv; they bundle some software with it so you can train to move a block in 16 different directions | 18:50 |
kanzure | so you start by training on only one-directional movement, and then add directions and try to keep it consistent.. | 18:50 |
kanzure | anyway, it works best with one-directional movement, or two-directional movement at best. | 18:50 |
gleapsite | so I write a little python game to play for training or something? | 18:50 |
gleapsite | 2d. | 18:50 |
gleapsite | so I'd have to communicate out in morse | 18:50 |
kanzure | well.. i'd go for something simpler like a binary switch or flip-flop gate game, or something | 18:51 |
gleapsite | for training | 18:51 |
gleapsite | yeah | 18:51 |
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kanzure | but you could also test your hypothesis that if you train while awake, then the training will hold during your sleep | 18:51 |
kanzure | gleapsite: if you can get two or three directional movements you should make a sleep walking bot for second life or something | 18:52 |
gleapsite | lol. | 18:53 |
gleapsite | kanzure: in re: to you saying that you don't dream, it could be that you are dreaming, but don't remember it. | 18:54 |
kanzure | i write down all that i can remember each morning | 18:54 |
gleapsite | Its been speculated that the pineal gland produces DMT during sleep, which could be the cause of dreams | 18:54 |
kanzure | maybe i can do some genetic engineering of gut microbes to over-produce DMT | 18:55 |
gleapsite | but... DMT also kinda shuts off your memory centers (personal exp), | 18:55 |
gleapsite | which is why training w/ a dreamjournal is a really good thing. teaches your brain to keep memory online | 18:55 |
Juul | i did that for a while | 18:57 |
Juul | suddenly i was remembering loads of dreams | 18:57 |
gleapsite | yeah. that was my method too | 18:57 |
kanzure | gleapsite: what about a tactile tongue interface? | 18:57 |
kanzure | some people can get 200x200 pixel resolution on these things | 18:57 |
gleapsite | for communicating out of a dream? | 18:57 |
gleapsite | or broadcasting data in? | 18:58 |
kanzure | communicating information into a dream | 18:58 |
gleapsite | got any links? | 18:58 |
Juul | it got to a point where it was too distracting. i kept thinking about my dreams | 18:58 |
kanzure | gleapsite: yeah give me a sec | 18:58 |
gleapsite | juul: thats why I try and use my dreams as a laboratory for the waking world | 18:58 |
kanzure | general overview: http://www.techreview.com/biomedicine/21706/page1/ | 18:59 |
Juul | gleapsite, sounds useful if you can make it work | 18:59 |
kanzure | http://kaz.med.wisc.edu/projects_tdu.php | 19:00 |
kanzure | grr where's that good link? :( | 19:00 |
kanzure | oh this was the brainport | 19:02 |
gleapsite | I dunno if I could fall asleep normally w/ something like that box dangling out of my mouth... | 19:02 |
kanzure | http://vision.wicab.com/technology/ | 19:02 |
kanzure | i figure there's no way to use the eyes | 19:03 |
kanzure | but the tongue.. :) | 19:03 |
gleapsite | that last devices seems much more reasonable | 19:04 |
gleapsite | device* | 19:05 |
kanzure | i wonder if that sort of sensory input will work while sleeping | 19:06 |
gleapsite | I mean, your eyes and ears work | 19:06 |
kanzure | your eyes will not be able to reliably get massive of information in or out | 19:06 |
gleapsite | touch (tactile, temperature) works | 19:07 |
kanzure | *massive amounts of information | 19:07 |
gleapsite | right | 19:07 |
gleapsite | but what I'm saying is that all these other senses work while dreaming | 19:07 |
gleapsite | I'd imagine that your tounge would to | 19:07 |
kanzure | "your in-flight movie" | 19:08 |
gleapsite | question is, would the electroshock be enough to wake you up | 19:08 |
kanzure | on the tongue? | 19:08 |
gleapsite | yeah | 19:08 |
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JayDugger | Good evening, everyone. | 19:09 |
ybit | anyway, augur, i think it's an excellent idea | 19:09 |
ybit | hi JayDugger | 19:09 |
kanzure | JayDugger: http://gnusha.org/logs/2011-01-12.log | 19:10 |
kanzure | theres an "inception" joke in here somewhere.. | 19:12 |
ybit | i'd be willing to work on something like that at some point, feel free to get in touch with me anytime. xmpp/email:heathmatlock@gmail.com | 19:12 |
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kanzure | wb gleapsite | 19:16 |
gleapsite | thanks. there's no good internet where I live. So I'm on a hacked smartphone... which drops if I receive a call. | 19:17 |
JayDugger | Good night, everyone. | 19:49 |
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QuantumG | "The paper is in Arxiv, and has not been peer-reviewed. They refer to Craig Venter as "G. Vinter." I won't hold my breath until these results are replicated by third parties." | 20:15 |
QuantumG | haha | 20:15 |
kanzure | g vinter geee | 20:18 |
kanzure | *venter | 20:42 |
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augur | ybit: what now | 21:38 |
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fenn | sparkfun's quiz thing is pretty cool | 23:33 |
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timschmidt | wow, free day was much less publicized this year | 23:52 |
timschmidt | people getting greedy | 23:53 |
genehacker | heh | 23:54 |
genehacker | our robotics club is really hoping to rake in the goods | 23:55 |
genehacker | we're have a freeday party | 23:55 |
--- Log closed Thu Jan 13 00:00:04 2011 |
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