2011-02-08.log

--- Log opened Tue Feb 08 00:00:10 2011
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joshcryerOK seriously, I'm going to be fixated on using audio to navigate.00:37
joshcryerIt's inadequate for typing since I use a lot of jargon, but it can navigate my Chrome bookmark bar trivially.00:39
Utopiahtried http://vimium.github.com ?01:14
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Lukas___Good morning01:38
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joshcryerAnyone getting the impression that the internet is finally being used for what it was best for? re: Egypt05:18
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joshcryerhttp://egypt.alive.in/2011/02/08/dream-tv-interview-with-wael-ghonim-part-2-with-english-subtitles/05:27
Lukas___Good morning lads and ladies05:27
drazakkanzure: know any fab labs in buffalo?05:46
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uniqanomalyhttp://30.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lg5bpyZp591qf6qofo1_500.png ahahah, this one is great05:57
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joshcryeruniqanomaly, awesome, and somewhat ironic given Proudhon's nationality.06:07
joshcryerCuba will be next.06:08
joshcryerBTW, apparently Google is now redirecting all searches from within Egypt to SSL.06:08
joshcryerI think their "do no evil" vs "doing evil" score is being equaled out by their Egypt actions.06:09
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JayDuggerGood morning, everyone.07:26
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kanzureheh someone from switzerland has been trying to call me because she thinks i run diybio.org08:25
Lukas___see, I wasn't the only one that called you08:26
kanzure?08:32
kanzureif you want the actual data you can parse meetlog.txt08:32
Utopiahhttp://www.goodiff.org tracking of semantic changes in web service policies.08:40
kanzurehttp://openprotocols.net/hiring/08:45
kanzurehttp://openprotocols.net/hiring/rough%20spec.pdf08:45
kanzurei'm not convinced this is a good format (plain text)08:45
kanzurehttp://apps.ycombinator.com/item?id=219110508:46
kanzurei really think this should be machine parseable but nobody is going to invest the time or thought to figure it out08:47
kanzurei'm also a little annoyed that eric (a member of the diybio groups) isn't soliciting feedback from his community08:48
* strages hates closed communities08:55
kanzureok emailed:08:58
kanzurehttp://groups.google.com/group/diybio/browse_thread/thread/19df187ef101473508:58
Utopiahopenprotocols.net makes me wonder again, any of you here have a smart solution to track duplicated experiment that would confirm/infirm an initial publication? (beside doing it manually)09:05
kanzurewhat? without doing an experiment, you want to do the experiment?09:07
Utopiahwell not another lab since Im pretty I dont need to notify myself when I do sth09:08
Utopiahs/well not/well no,/09:08
UtopiahI was imaginating reading an article then subscribe to an RSS feed "Get notified when this is tested again by an independant lab"09:11
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maykoUtopiah: I use google alerts to let me know when a paper is cited; replications of an experiment would presumably cite it. It would only work on published work, though09:59
maykowere you thinking more of a lab to lab network?09:59
Utopiahsounds like a solution but as you suggested it would have some noise and be limited to peer reviewed papers10:01
maykoyeah it seems like there would have to be easy resources for sharing say .xls files and including alerts10:05
maykogetting the info centralized would just need organization i guess?10:05
Utopiahyes "just organization", isn't it what humans generally suck at? ;)10:06
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Utopiah(asked "Eric" too, just in case)10:13
UtopiahAFAIK http://www.springerprotocols.com doesn't do it either10:15
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maykoyes herding humans: at least cats can be coaxed with tuna10:57
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ENKI-][kanzure: http://ascii.textfiles.com/archives/2963 <-- are you aware of this?12:02
ENKI-][(you're probably IN it)12:02
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kanzurehuh12:18
kanzurethat's neat.12:18
kanzurehe should torrent all that footage12:18
ENKI-][i think he's still working on torrenting geocities12:22
ENKI-][you could contact him and offer to seed it, though12:22
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kanzurefenn: michael anissimov wants to see your myvu12:43
fennwhy?12:43
kanzurehe wants to dump money for a 'scouter'12:50
kanzure(on a related note, he's really into dbz)12:51
kanzureso i told him he should throw money at you for parts and documentation for an open source well-documented project12:51
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ENKI-][kanzure: and if it costs over nine thousand he'll have to crush it?12:55
fennhttp://unpaper.berlios.de/  unpaper is a post-processing tool for scanned sheets of paper, especially for book pages that have been scanned13:21
fennhmm looks like it makes the text blurry, wtf13:23
fenncan't be that hard to rotate text without fucking it up13:23
fennhttp://dailypackage.fedorabook.com/uploads/2007-06-26-unpaper.png13:24
kanzurelol see pm fenn13:40
kanzureso their idea for openprotocols.net is for people to "like" protocols and thus this will fix everything?13:47
kanzurei'm not sure if i buy that13:47
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Utopiahmayko: eric from openprotocol replied "That's an awesome idea, but isn't really something we've considered building.  Unfortunately, I think the google alerts method is the best way to do it."13:54
kanzurethey aren't even developers.. so i don't know why you emailed them :P13:54
Utopiahhope :\13:55
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Lukas____http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2X5GAOf1UlE&feature=feedu14:06
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ybitfenn: thanks for the unpaper link14:15
ybitLukas____: that's probably the most advanced bionic arm i've seen14:16
Lukas____Same here14:17
Lukas____How long do you think it will be until it becomes affordable for poor college students?14:27
ybitENKI-][: thanks for the update on the two hands project, i was wondering if this was ever going to be completed14:28
ENKI-][np14:28
ybitLukas____: it could be highly affordable if you attend research uni14:30
Lukas____?14:31
Lukas____<ybit>: Working in a PhD lab, I assume14:31
ybiti'm not sure if it requires obtaining your PhD, but several universities are working on prosthetic arms14:35
Lukas____Interesting14:39
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kanzurehttp://blog.automenta.com/2011/02/engineerables-and-generalizing-skdb.html18:25
kanzureweird.18:26
kanzurewhere is SeH hanging out?18:31
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kanzureoh good god marc fawzi is still alive19:07
kanzure"spoke to Ponoko (one of their people commented on a blog post i had on open hardware/manufacturing and diy bio) and they're releasing an API at some point in the future, which means there now can be apps that let people design things and then get them manufactured via any number of 3D manufacturers, like ponoko, shapeways, etc"19:07
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kanzurewho have i been cc'ing on the reprap grand prize document? jrayhawk do you want in on that email chain19:11
kanzureoh, timschmidt too i guess19:12
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* fenn points at sseehh 19:45
kanzurehi sseehh19:48
kanzureoh you're probably SeH19:48
sseehhyes hi kanzure hi fenn19:49
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kanzuresseehh: http://diyhpl.us/cgit/skdb/plain/doc/package_spec.yaml19:52
fennwhy are you showing him that?19:58
fennit's not exactly easily digestible material19:58
sseehhkanzure: thanks i've got the repo cloned and have been looking thru it20:00
sseehhfenn: i was thinking about how to generalize SKDB to abstract things20:00
fennsseehh: yeah, it's not supposed to be general purpose20:02
fenni don't want to get stuck in a mire of philosophy20:03
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fennalso, in my view the big problem is getting good curated data20:03
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fennwithout funding or some sort of government assistance, data collection is going to be a slow, linearly increasing process20:05
sseehhfenn: understood re: philosophy, its already very ambitious20:05
fennat least until (if) it becomes popular20:05
fennthen we will have the opposite problem, lots of crap data20:06
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fenni'm not sure which is worse :\20:06
fenngah where did all the example packages go20:07
fennkanzure which is the right place to put skdb example packages, diyhpl.us or /srv/ikiwiki ?20:14
drazakhow far along is SKDB now?20:17
fennsame as a year ago20:18
fennproof of concept stuff20:18
kanzurefenn: right now skdb-get.py just clones from diyhpl.us' git server20:24
kanzureso you should just use piny's "newrepo" command and push the examples20:24
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kanzurewhat an awful netsplit20:26
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fennsseehh: some example packages http://diyhpl.us/cgit/threads/ http://diyhpl.us/cgit/screw/20:29
fenngrr i'm so jealous http://brlcad.org/w/images/3/31/Hexbolt.png20:32
fennspent two weeks with opencascade and couldn't get helices to work20:33
fenn(not an anatomically accurate thread, but whatever)20:33
fenni want to delete smari's django inventory stuff but i want to do it in such a way as to remove it from the history as well..20:39
kanzureremoving it from the history will cause pain for everyone who has a cloned copy of skdb since forever20:40
gnusha26f2280 htmlerized version of the package specification20:40
fenngnusha should say what repo it's talking about20:41
fennand anyway when i said "not easily digestable" i wasn't referring to the fact that it was written i nyaml20:42
kanzureyeah well, i've been meaning to do this anyway20:42
kanzurejrayhawk: why isn't package_spec.html showing up in http://gnusha.org/skdb/doc/20:42
kanzureis the ikiwiki post-receive hook really that screwed up20:43
fennplease commit the source file too20:43
kanzurethis works so i know it's there somewhere.. http://diyhpl.us/cgit/skdb/plain/doc/package_spec.html20:43
kanzurefenn: it's by hand20:43
fennsays it was made by docutils20:43
kanzurei copied css from something i generated a while back20:44
fennoh i see20:44
fennnm20:44
kanzurei'm an awful person20:44
kanzurehtml by hand is devil's work20:44
fennyes, i'm going to just fix this and learn asciidoc20:44
kanzureon a related note, http://psd2html.com/ recently pulled through for me on a paid project20:45
fennholy motherfucking shit "apt-get install asciidoc\n <snip> After this operation, 759MB of additional disk space will be used."20:45
kanzureare you on gnusha doing that?20:46
fennno, but i think i should be20:46
fenni dont want all that texlive crap cluttering up my computer :)20:46
fennhmm i wonder why it's installing that, asciidoc only explicitly depends on python20:47
fenn--no-install-recommends seems to work20:48
kanzurei wonder if the ikiwiki hook just didn't run, or what.20:48
kanzurejrayhawk: are you around20:48
kanzurei'd really like to post a link to the file on OM for once20:48
fennyou sure you pushed to the repo you expect to have updated?20:49
kanzureyep.. gnusha.org/skdb/ is basically a symlink to the ikiwiki-compiled directory20:49
kanzurecheck out /srv/ikiwiki/skdb/20:49
fennhttp://diyhpl.us/cgit/skdb/plain/doc/package_spec.html?id=26f228018a4a494ace53951502de28c0b4d8216a20:49
kanzurewhat about it? that's the one with Content type: plain-text set20:50
kanzure(in general, i think cgit *should* give me the plaintext view of the file)20:50
fennhow do i make it not do that20:51
kanzurehacking the cgit source code somewhere20:51
fennbah20:51
kanzureikiwiki should be either compiling the files or leaving them alone20:52
fennthis mimetype stuff is such a pain20:52
kanzurenot eliminating them entirely..20:52
kanzureoh wait, /skdb is /srv/www/diyhpl.us/skdb/20:52
fennthat's what i was trying to say20:53
fennbut then i got confused20:53
fennyour directory mapping is fubar20:53
fenni dont like that there are two parallel copies of the same repos on the same server20:54
kanzureyeah i have no idea what /srv/www/diyhpl.us/skdb/ is20:54
kanzureit's not even a symlink to the ikiwiki thing20:54
kanzureand it's not a git repo, so it's not a working directory20:54
fennhuh?20:54
kanzurewell ikiwiki makes a working directory of your repo and places compiled copies of the files20:55
fennomg it's a soulless zombie20:55
fenna git repo with no .git directory20:55
kanzurei'm going to switch gnusha.og/skdb to /srv/ikiwiki/skdb/ for a few moments and see how awful it is20:55
kanzureoh hm.20:57
kanzurehttp://gnusha.org/skdb/20:57
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fennis it supposed to look like that?20:59
kanzureno.. that's not the ikiwiki-compiled directory20:59
fenni meant the html21:00
kanzureoh, this? http://gnusha.org/skdb/doc/package_spec.html21:00
kanzureyeah..21:00
kanzurenot bad for 20 minutes of html bullshitting21:01
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fennbbl21:01
kanzurebryan@gnusha:/srv/git/skdb.git/hooks$ sudo ./post-update 867960c35ece75154d2944df8c0457779a62599d 26f228018a4a494ace53951502de28c0b4d8216a master21:08
kanzurehrm.. that should have done it21:08
kanzureoh well. i've manually placed the file in the directory for now.21:10
kanzurehttp://gnusha.org/skdb/doc/package_spec.html21:10
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fennsee kanzure this is why i say you take credit for my work21:43
fenn"hey all i've thrown up a htmlerized package spec"21:44
kanzurefenn: i don't deny it, i know this is a problem and you should be mad at me21:44
fennalso you added like 1 word and then added yourself as a spec maintainer21:45
kanzureyou can remove me if you want :P21:46
kanzurei won't editwar you21:46
fennoh i guess you've been adding stuff, nevermind21:47
kanzureyeah well, one word isn't worth much21:47
kanzure(git blame?)21:47
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kanzurein case anyone cares, today i finished the 'reprap grandprize' draft for humanity+21:51
kanzurehttp://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/gadastuff/reprapgrandprize.v0.3.pdf21:51
kanzureand 'water liberation prize' just for kicks (i'm not particularly excited about it since it's non-open-source) http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/gadastuff/waterliberationprize.v0.1.pdf21:51
fennalso it's not feasible21:51
fenni mean 1) we already have water filtration technology21:52
fenn2) it's not magic21:52
fenn3) why should it cost less than it currently costs?21:52
fenni want a $1 chip fabber21:52
fenndo i get a prize?21:53
kanzuredon't ask me about this.. because i don't know.21:53
kanzurefenn: yes21:53
* fenn eats a cookie21:53
kanzureprizes for all!21:53
kanzurethe Ben Lipkowitz TransHumanitarian Innovation Prize in Professional Industrial Engineering21:53
kanzurebut yeah, i'd rather be spending my time writing up a "please give tim schmidt $2,500 for doing an skdb-compatible open source AFM" or something21:54
kanzureor, more usefully, perhaps a chromatography filter thingy21:54
fennheh you should start a new organization, WTH, world transhumanitarians21:54
kanzureor WTF.. what terrible failure21:54
kanzurespeaking of wtf.. who the hell schedules a meeting for midnight?21:55
fennme21:55
* kanzure goes to meet up with elevenarms21:55
kanzureycombinator, bitches!21:55
fenneh?21:55
kanzureif you're around later i'll explain21:55
kanzurecya21:55
fenny = lambda g: (lambda f: g(lambda arg: f(f)(arg))) (lambda f: g(lambda arg: f(f)(arg))21:56
kanzurecomplain to #startups about the name if you want..21:57
fenn"if you don't understand it, you're not a computer scientist"21:57
QuantumGfenn: you mean if the parens matched?22:13
fennit's python22:14
fennin scheme that would look like this: (define Y (lambda (g) ((lambda (f) (g (lambda (arg) ((f f) arg)))) (lambda (f) (g (lambda (arg) ((f f) arg)))))))22:17
fennoh i was missing a paren22:18
fennbleck22:19
joshcryershaving helmet: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bgRszdUdhQ22:22
joshcryerie, actual shaving22:22
joshcryerit's lame if it's real :P22:22
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fenni like it22:35
fenni think it's real; there's no way they could have taken the helmet off and shaved his head in that amount of time22:35
drazakkanzure: what are you guys planning on doing when you have something to solder that's BGA?22:38
fenntoaster oven22:41
fennor hot plate22:41
fennbut basically "don't do that"22:41
drazakreally? I'm not sure how those work :S22:41
drazakI might email my university to get the BGA work done that I need22:41
fennyou put the chip on the board, put the board on a hot plate, done22:41
drazakyeah, I know22:42
drazakand pray you have even heating22:42
fenncould use a flat aluminum plate22:42
drazakand that air currents don't move your chip too much22:42
fennpff22:42
drazakand that your solder paste melts and wets properly22:42
fennyeah that's more of a problem because the solder on the chip will oxidize if not stored properly22:43
drazakyeah, it's a big hassle22:43
joshcryerfenn, it's been debunked. http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs020.snc1/2642_547613930379_24800851_33329724_643409_n.jpg22:44
joshcryer(I didn't see it when I posted.)22:44
fennyeah i know :(22:44
joshcryerLooking at the helmet it's kinda obvious because it only moves on the top of the head not the sides.22:44
joshcryerMy dream lives!22:44
fennone day we will have a true shaving helmet, and it will be good22:45
fennman, what a useless day today was22:46
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jrayhawkAre there still Ikiwiki problems for me to look at?22:47
fennyes22:48
jrayhawkdo tell22:48
fennsomething along the lines of: ikiwiki doesn't copy the committed html file to its rendered directory22:48
fenneither that or kanzure pushed to the wrong repo22:49
jrayhawkHmm. I forget what plugin disables that. Let me see.22:49
jrayhawkWorks fine by default, at least.22:51
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jrayhawkjrayhawk@gnusha:~$ find /srv/ikiwiki/skdb/doc/ -user root22:57
jrayhawk/srv/ikiwiki/skdb/doc/.ikiwiki/indexdb22:57
jrayhawk/srv/ikiwiki/skdb/doc/index.mdwn22:57
jrayhawkSame ol' same ol'.22:58
jrayhawkI'm sure glad I made the rebuildrepo command so I don't have to invest serious effort in working out how Bryan thinks things are supposed to work.22:58
fenni dont get it, what was the problem? and what did you do?23:00
drazakI'm considering building a Mendel23:00
jrayhawkI'm still working things out, but, at the very least, bryan at some point ran stuff as root rather than letting the hooks do their thing.23:01
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drazakI think I can do the PCB inhouse, no problem23:03
jrayhawkAh, the 'rawhtml' plugin is needed.23:04
jrayhawkI should probably just have a big 'turn on all the insecure stuf' button23:04
jrayhawkstuff23:04
kanzurecan someone do a test commit of the file and see if it goes up on ikiwiki http?23:05
kanzureim still at dinnermeeting23:05
jrayhawkJust a second, fixing things23:05
kanzurewoo fixing things23:06
jrayhawkOkay, that should be better.23:07
jrayhawkhttp://diyhpl.us/skdb/package_spec.html23:07
jrayhawkpush(@{$conf->{add_plugins}}, "rawhtml");23:08
kanzurewhy was /skdb/doc/thatfike working when i put the file ib doc/?23:08
kanzureguess ill check if skdb/doc/ works there later23:09
drazakfenn: I'm considering non-officially-kosher cost saving measures for a reprap23:09
kanzurethx jrayhawk23:09
drazakfenn: I can make a board in house, and source the electronics myself, that probably cuts 50 bucks23:09
fenni'm sure you can save more than 5023:09
drazakI'm being conservative23:09
drazakI'd like to get it under 30023:09
fenneverything?23:10
jrayhawkThat's... a damned good question.23:10
drazakfenn: yeah23:10
kanzureim using an aliad in my apache config pointing to the working dir23:11
kanzurealia23:11
fenndrazak: i'm sure you can do that without even making any boards.. i could prove it, if i had better book-keeping23:12
fennassuming you don't have to pay for the plastic parts23:12
drazakfenn: well you guys have a reprap right?23:12
jrayhawkthe doc directory is a legacy thing due to piny being overly fearful of deleting old stuff when configurations change, but I have no idea how package_spec.html wound up in there. There's no sudo activity from around that time.23:13
drazakfenn: want to send me the plastic parts? :P23:13
jrayhawkWhich I guess means it... might've been related to a push... somehow?23:13
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fennhe just put it in there a couple hours ago23:18
kanzurejrayhawk i said in the logd i put it there23:18
kanzuretheres a link in the wildto it23:18
jrayhawkoh, well, whatever, then23:18
kanzurehours? god damn time travel23:18
jrayhawkyou should start a transtemporalist channel23:19
fennsorry, just finished "marooned in realtime"23:21
kanzureare we grinding yet23:22
jrayhawkbring me 50 rat tails23:23
fenni have TMJ, does that count?23:24
jrayhawkis it okay if I add a redirect from doc/package_spec.html to package_spec.html so that file actually winds up maintained23:25
kanzureyes23:25
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fennuh, it's supposed to be in doc/, is there a reason to put it in /?23:26
kanzureits ikiwiki on doc/23:26
jrayhawkBryan wanted doc/ rendered to / and everything else ignored.23:26
kanzurei suck23:27
fennhuh??23:27
jrayhawkNah, it's a reasonable thing to want to do.23:27
kanzurewell the website has to be somewwhere23:27
fennok23:28
jrayhawkfenn: so the idea is https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/skdb/tree/doc/index.mdwn gets rendered to http://diyhpl.us/skdb/ and https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/skdb/tree/doc/package_spec.html gets rendered to http://diyhpl.us/skdb/package_spec.html, etc.23:30
jrayhawkAnd everything outside of doc people can just get from git or arduously from cgit.23:30
jrayhawkMake them SUFFER.23:30
* fenn suffers23:31
fennwiki suffrage!23:31
jrayhawkwikis are not a democracy, they're a do-ocracy23:31
jrayhawkit ensures everyone suffers23:31
fenni'm sort of tired of all these doodad-do-ad-hocracies23:32
jrayhawkhaha23:32
fennend up buried in glitter and popsicle sticks23:33
fennmeanwhile the nuclear reactor gets ignored and thrown out because nobody used it23:33
kanzurehide the code lesd the wikiserfs learn23:38
kanzureless23:38
kanzureblah23:39
kanzuremobilefail23:39
jrayhawkhee hee does your phone not have a real keyboard23:39
kanzure... it does. mb300 backflip23:40
jrayhawkrumormill has it that the n9 will be announced this weekend23:50
--- Log closed Wed Feb 09 00:00:10 2011

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