| --- Log opened Sun Aug 14 00:00:23 2011 | ||
| JayDugger | Good evening, everyone. | 00:01 |
|---|---|---|
| klafka | hey | 00:01 |
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| JayDugger | Anyone hereabouts familiar with Parpas America CNC milling machines? | 00:07 |
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| JayDugger1 | ls | 07:31 |
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| kanzure | delinquentme: do you need a shell | 08:37 |
| kanzure | you keep logging in/out but that's not normal.. | 08:37 |
| delinquentme | its just when my comp is on =] | 08:37 |
| delinquentme | got a recommend into halcyon ! | 08:37 |
| kanzure | yes i know it's hwne your computer is on | 08:37 |
| kanzure | but instead of filling our screens with login/logout you can stay connected all the time | 08:38 |
| kanzure | and just log into your shell/server when you want to see what's up | 08:38 |
| kanzure | (that's how i do it) | 08:38 |
| delinquentme | awesome. thanks for the offer.. du just have spare comps laying around? | 08:38 |
| kanzure | yes if you send me your public key i will set something up for you | 08:39 |
| kanzure | D/PhoneGapLog( 186): file:///android_asset/www/js/lecturer.js: Line 928 : TypeError: Result of expression 'response' [undefined] is not an object. | 08:42 |
| kanzure | D/PhoneGapLog( 186): file:///android_asset/www/js/lecturer.js: Line 928 : TypeError: Result of expression 'response' [undefined] is not an object. | 08:42 |
| kanzure | D/PhoneGapLog( 186): file:///android_asset/www/js/lecturer.js: Line 928 : TypeError: Result of expression 'response' [undefined] is not an object. | 08:42 |
| kanzure | D/PhoneGapLog( 186): file:///android_asset/www/js/lecturer.js: Line 928 : TypeError: Result of expression 'response' [undefined] is not an object. | 08:42 |
| kanzure | blahhh | 08:42 |
| Utopiah | Hacking DNA, Compiling code for living systems http://media.ccc.de/browse/conferences/camp2011/cccamp11-4472-the_blackbox_in_your_phone-en.html (weird URL but working) | 08:44 |
| Utopiah | (by Marc Juul) | 08:44 |
| kanzure | i need to come up with a talk for singapore in a few weeks | 08:44 |
| kanzure | denisa kera has been kind enough to organize Things | 08:44 |
| delinquentme | a nucleic acid is a set of nucleotides .. correct? | 08:54 |
| kanzure | no a nucleic acid is a nucleotide with some extra groups | 09:00 |
| gedankenstuecke | kanzure: not really, iirc can a single chromosome be seen as a single nucleic acid | 09:02 |
| gedankenstuecke | so a nucleic acid just consists of n nucleotides | 09:02 |
| kanzure | eh.. | 09:02 |
| delinquentme | yeah after googling a bit | 09:05 |
| delinquentme | DNA is a nucleic acid | 09:05 |
| kanzure | maybe i meant nucleoside | 09:05 |
| delinquentme | aka the amino acids of which there are 20 | 09:05 |
| delinquentme | which is a 3-length nucleotide | 09:06 |
| delinquentme | erm | 09:06 |
| delinquentme | length OF 3 nucleotides | 09:06 |
| gedankenstuecke | kanzure: right, those are basically the nucleotides without the phosphate | 09:06 |
| delinquentme | http://lectures.molgen.mpg.de/Biol/Intro/index.html | 09:06 |
| gedankenstuecke | delinquentme: nucleic acid != amino acid ;) | 09:06 |
| delinquentme | no!? ok | 09:08 |
| delinquentme | no wait wait | 09:08 |
| delinquentme | nucleoside | 09:08 |
| gedankenstuecke | nucleic acids consist of a bunch of nucleotides. nucleotides are nucleosides + phosphate | 09:08 |
| gedankenstuecke | living organisms tend to use those nucleotides to create amino acids using the genetic code. a sequence of 3 nucleotides codes for one amino acid | 09:09 |
| delinquentme | waaaaiit i thought a nucleotide was just one of your BPs | 09:10 |
| delinquentme | but infact a nucleotide is that BP + its phosphate backbone? | 09:10 |
| gedankenstuecke | a nucleotide is a single base including the sugar and the phosphate that create the backbone of dna | 09:10 |
| delinquentme | i seeee | 09:11 |
| delinquentme | so the 2 complementary nucleotides form a ________ | 09:11 |
| gedankenstuecke | basepair | 09:12 |
| delinquentme | damn | 09:12 |
| delinquentme | ive always through that be BP is JUST the AT or CG | 09:12 |
| delinquentme | but it includes the backbone? are these commonly left out things? | 09:12 |
| kanzure | you should go look at some molecular diagrams of dna | 09:13 |
| delinquentme | yeah im looking at it atm :D | 09:13 |
| delinquentme | awesome gif on wiki | 09:13 |
| gedankenstuecke | the base itself is the part of the molecule that encodes the information, but you need the sugar/phosphate to create a poly-nucleotide | 09:14 |
| delinquentme | im just wondering if basepair is used interchangeably to refer to both the AT and CG .. with or without its sugar phosphate backbone | 09:14 |
| gedankenstuecke | well, depends on which level you are working i'd guess | 09:15 |
| delinquentme | hmm ... http://www.rayandterry.com/itemdesc.asp?ic=COQ10 anyone? | 09:16 |
| delinquentme | anyone dose up on this on the daily? | 09:16 |
| gedankenstuecke | as long as you are only interested in the information stored in the nucleic acid you don't care about the backbone as it's all the same and boring. ;) | 09:16 |
| delinquentme | makes sense | 09:17 |
| gedankenstuecke | but the real, molecular basepairs (iirc) always include the backbone | 09:18 |
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| kanzure | http://mail.google.com/mail/help/paper/more.html | 10:52 |
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| jrayhawk | "Now that I have Gmail Paper, I understand the difference between labels and folders. I had one message with two labels, but when I tried to stick the paper version into two filing cabinets at the same time, it just wouldn't go." | 10:56 |
| kanzure | i was hoping this was a real thing so that i could get a huge box of my email :) | 11:02 |
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| kanzure | i bet i could find some online service to print out documents for me | 11:02 |
| kanzure | "you want to ship .. how many boxes? what?" | 11:02 |
| kanzure | actually, that might be an interesting service for end-of-life maintenance of accounts | 11:02 |
| kanzure | i.e. dad flopped over dead.. time to print his correspondence / back it up | 11:03 |
| kanzure | i'm not proud of saying that | 11:07 |
| kanzure | "In contrast to Python, in Ruby all instance member variables are private." i wonder why i have never run into this before | 11:22 |
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| delinquentme | instance variables are private? | 12:13 |
| delinquentme | ummm within that file you mean? | 12:13 |
| delinquentme | actually im not sure.. thinking about it im pretty sure i've seen instance vars being used within the same file .. @instance_var .. each within its own method | 12:14 |
| delinquentme | so yeah i guess thats right | 12:14 |
| kanzure | i'm sorta surprised but ok | 12:14 |
| delinquentme | try it out | 12:39 |
| delinquentme | ( the asshole answer ) | 12:40 |
| kanzure | http://wiki.openhardware.org when did this happen | 13:29 |
| kanzure | http://wiki.openhardware.org/Catalog | 13:29 |
| kanzure | bruce perens should know better :( | 13:29 |
| kanzure | http://wiki.openhardware.org/Project:How_to_Create_Content_for_the_Open_Hardware_Catalog | 13:29 |
| kanzure | jrayhawk: what do i do | 13:29 |
| kanzure | if he was proposing this for debian they'd take him out and shoot him | 13:30 |
| kanzure | someone should port all of the zotero scrapers (for firefox/js) into phantomjs/pjscrape | 13:56 |
| kanzure | (the elsevier scrapers) | 13:57 |
| jrayhawk | What is he proposing? I only see the open source hardware definition and a catalogue of projects meeting that definition. | 13:59 |
| kanzure | i don't think a wiki-database of projects is optimal? | 13:59 |
| jrayhawk | It's not a packaging standard, certainly, but I don't really see a problem with its existence? | 14:00 |
| jrayhawk | I mean, not only is it not a packaging standard, it doesn't appear to even be trying to be a packaging standard. | 14:00 |
| kanzure | i guess i just expect better from him | 14:00 |
| kanzure | i think it is a packaging standard though.. what else could it be | 14:00 |
| jrayhawk | I don't see any semblence of packaging. | 14:00 |
| jrayhawk | It's just a bunch of metadata and hyperlinks. | 14:00 |
| kanzure | well, it's metadata about projects and possibly the files (maybe by uri reference) | 14:01 |
| kanzure | in plain text | 14:01 |
| kanzure | unparsed | 14:01 |
| kanzure | yeah i'm probably over-reacting | 14:01 |
| kanzure | again i just don't see the long-term strategy goin' on there.. | 14:01 |
| kanzure | if he wants to really contribute... erhm. | 14:02 |
| jrayhawk | uh, well, the point of openhardware.org is to advocate for open hardware | 14:02 |
| jrayhawk | to that end, they define what that means, give a list of acceptable licenses, give a list of unacceptable licenses, and give a list of projects using acceptable licenses. | 14:03 |
| kanzure | a list of projects can be a text file | 14:03 |
| kanzure | maybe with fancy css markup | 14:03 |
| jrayhawk | If he were attempting to make a packaging standard, then, yes, I expect he would have more formalized metadata structures. | 14:04 |
| jrayhawk | He is not. | 14:04 |
| jrayhawk | That's an enormous project and he is a busy man. | 14:04 |
| kanzure | yeah so i really really don't understand manual labor | 14:04 |
| kanzure | like, me reading through all of the projcts that could be potentially listed here is *manual labor* | 14:04 |
| jrayhawk | Crowdsourcing appears to be his approach. | 14:05 |
| kanzure | what is the advantage of a wiki over .. | 14:05 |
| kanzure | ok | 14:05 |
| jrayhawk | ha ha i just used a terrible catchphrase for public collaboration | 14:05 |
| jrayhawk | i feel dirty | 14:05 |
| kanzure | that's because this is an awful implementation of public collaboration.. "let's use a custom version control system and an unparsable syntax plsu lots and lots of php to do this! yehaw crowdsourcing" | 14:06 |
| klafka | LOL | 14:06 |
| jrayhawk | haha, so you're just bitter that the data is cumbersome to get at | 14:07 |
| kanzure | it marginalizes my contributions by making them less effective at their goals | 14:07 |
| kanzure | yes and it's a waste of time | 14:07 |
| kanzure | if the problem is that nobody is contributing, that's because you have no community | 14:07 |
| jrayhawk | I don't think he cares that much, is the thing. | 14:07 |
| kanzure | (this is partly why i don't spend all of my time writing wikipedia articles) | 14:08 |
| kanzure | that might be true- i think he has recently increased his care for open source hardware related subjects | 14:08 |
| kanzure | he mentioned something to me about .. uh.. one of his legal battles ending so that he could free up some of his time toward this? | 14:08 |
| kanzure | i'm not really on the in-loop with him :/ | 14:08 |
| jrayhawk | But, I mean, that data is fairly secondary to his primary purpose (the OSHD). Obviously it's deeply important to your primary purpose (SKDB). | 14:09 |
| jrayhawk | You could start building your repository with proper formalized and accessible metadata and have him just point at that | 14:10 |
| jrayhawk | Though beats me if he'll want to. | 14:10 |
| kanzure | bruce isn't thoroughly involved with OSHD :/ | 14:11 |
| kanzure | the guys behind OSHD (eyebeam.org) kinda marginalize everyone else | 14:11 |
| kanzure | i mean he's tried to pop in but he's been mostly rejected | 14:11 |
| kanzure | it's kinda absurd | 14:11 |
| kanzure | wait, i'm sorry | 14:11 |
| kanzure | oshd isn't eyebeam | 14:11 |
| jrayhawk | oh, i guess it's "OSHWD" | 14:12 |
| jrayhawk | whatever | 14:12 |
| kanzure | freedomdefined.org is benjamin hill | 14:13 |
| kanzure | so we know him.. | 14:13 |
| kanzure | uhrm.. | 14:13 |
| jrayhawk | Anyway, Perens has a long history of attempting to lead without buy-in from those he leads and being unconstructively brittle about dealing with the fallout, and a lot of people are just not interested in working with him. | 14:14 |
| kanzure | yep that's right | 14:14 |
| kanzure | http://freedomdefined.org/index.php?title=OSHW&oldid=7970 | 14:14 |
| kanzure | "This definition originated with discussion between attendees of the Opening Hardware workshop at Eyebeam (New York City), March 17, 2010, in particular (listed alphabetically by first name):" | 14:14 |
| kanzure | i see | 14:15 |
| kanzure | jrayhawk: what are his actual skills, btw? | 14:15 |
| kanzure | i mean did he ever have a history of submitting large quantities of code to projects? | 14:16 |
| jrayhawk | Well, there's BusyBox. | 14:16 |
| jrayhawk | His qualifications seem to be: decent programmer, ability to speak and write in a compelling manner, very little sense of self-restraint. | 14:17 |
| kanzure | yeah he definitely seems to be more on the public relations end? | 14:17 |
| jrayhawk | Yeah, he's good at being loud. He's also more reliably saying something worthwhile than most loud people (rms, ESR, etc.). | 14:19 |
| kanzure | well his message on licensing tends to be clear to me | 14:19 |
| kanzure | oh but i guess rms' moral arguments are also clear to me so nevermind | 14:20 |
| QuantumG | rms has a great moral argument.. unfortunately it leads to a conclusion that calls for you to live like a monk. | 14:30 |
| jrayhawk | http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Alwn.net+%22bruce+perens%22 perens' appearences on lwn tend to be interesting | 14:32 |
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| klafka | RMS moral argument isn't bad but it's a bit of a stretch a lot of time | 15:08 |
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| kanzure | box2d javascript again http://code.google.com/p/box2dweb/ | 16:15 |
| belorno | Hey kanzure. | 17:00 |
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| kanzure | 2~ | 18:00 |
| kanzure | ssh: connect to host neuroblastoma.omgwallhack.org port 22: Connection refused | 18:00 |
| klafka | ;_; | 18:17 |
| kanzure | so there's this person claiming that his wife has an electrostatic charge | 18:52 |
| kanzure | and that she can't ever be in the same room with anything producing electric fields | 18:52 |
| kanzure | including common consumer devices | 18:52 |
| kanzure | this sounds like bullshit to me? | 18:52 |
| QuantumG | probably.. I knew a guy who would cause computers to crash whenever he entered a room. | 18:56 |
| QuantumG | this was around 1998. | 18:56 |
| QuantumG | scratch that, 1996. | 18:57 |
| kanzure | maybe he was a bogon generator | 18:58 |
| QuantumG | http://singularityhub.com/2011/08/14/dutch-plantlab-revolutionizes-farming-no-sunlight-no-windows-less-water-better-food/ | 19:09 |
| uniqanomaly | weed was there first | 19:12 |
| QuantumG | no doubt had an influence :) | 19:15 |
| superkuh | Yes, bullshit. | 19:15 |
| superkuh | And easily tested. | 19:16 |
| superkuh | With a 9v battery, a jfet, and an LED. | 19:16 |
| superkuh | Not that testing is required, because it's bullshit. | 19:16 |
| QuantumG | sorry, what's bullshit? | 19:17 |
| superkuh | People who claim to have a permanent electrostatic charge that can 'crash' electronics. | 19:17 |
| QuantumG | ahh | 19:18 |
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| kanzure | superkuh: apparently it was an old childhood mentor of mine when i was doing concert paino | 19:24 |
| kanzure | (apparently i did concert piano) | 19:24 |
| kanzure | *piano | 19:24 |
| kanzure | git mv Student student | 19:31 |
| kanzure | fatal: renaming 'iphone/Student' failed: Invalid argument | 19:31 |
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| belorno | The new farming method was awesome. Thanks for the link. Goodnight. | 20:35 |
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| fenn | superkuh: got a HV question | 21:55 |
| fenn | we're trying to trigger something based on the output of an electric fence | 21:55 |
| superkuh | Okay. I'll try to respond usefully. | 21:55 |
| fenn | the fence discharges a capacitor onto the line once a second | 21:55 |
| fenn | we're trying to detect a human, so modeling the human as a 12 ohm resistor | 21:56 |
| fenn | so there's a voltage divider and a bunch of diodes in series to clamp whatever voltage comes out of the divider to 5V | 21:56 |
| fenn | does that make sense? | 21:57 |
| fenn | the divider is made up of an actual resistor and the human | 21:57 |
| fenn | the goal is for the output to be somewhere between 3 and 5 volts so an arduino can interrupt on the pulse | 22:00 |
| superkuh | The human is in series with the voltage divider for the sensor of capacitor voltage? | 22:02 |
| fenn | the human is one resistor in the voltage divider | 22:02 |
| fenn | voltage will be across the line whether there's someone there or not | 22:02 |
| fenn | we're trying to detect if there's something there | 22:02 |
| fenn | now that i'm thinking about it, the best way might just be to measure the resistance across the electrodes and only turn on the fence when it's at a high enough value | 22:03 |
| fenn | er, low enough resistance | 22:03 |
| superkuh | You're going to be charging the capacitor at all times because of leakage, right? But it'll be almost no current. | 22:06 |
| superkuh | Except when it has discharged. | 22:06 |
| superkuh | The charging current will increase after discharge on the low voltage end. | 22:06 |
| superkuh | Look at that. | 22:06 |
| fenn | the way the fence works is it discharges a capacitor and somehow this generates high voltage | 22:06 |
| fenn | it does that once a second | 22:06 |
| fenn | there's no high voltage capacitor | 22:07 |
| fenn | it's very low current at high voltage for something like a microsecond | 22:07 |
| superkuh | I would design the voltage divider to allow for current of some mA to pulse an optoisolator which switches briefly a 5 or 3v battery provided voltage. Given a meatsack as an alternate current path it just wouldn't pulse and that lack would be the trigger. | 22:20 |
| fenn | yeah we discussed using optoisolators but werent sure if there was enough current | 22:21 |
| fenn | should probably just test that and see if it works, would be much easier | 22:22 |
| superkuh | Me either. But I wouldn't want to hook a pulsed trigger transformer up to my avr, even through a voltage divider. | 22:22 |
| fenn | right | 22:23 |
| --- Log closed Mon Aug 15 00:00:25 2011 | ||
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