| --- Log opened Mon Sep 05 00:00:56 2011 | ||
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| wrldpc | Anyone have the deep web search engine link that was posted here last week? | 06:03 |
|---|---|---|
| Utopiah | wrldpc: http://multisearch.deepwebaccess.com/multisearch/ ? | 06:05 |
| wrldpc | thank you! :D | 06:05 |
| Utopiah | np | 06:06 |
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| Utopiah | wrldpc: quick tip though, consider keeping logs and using a search software like Sphinx, pretty handy | 06:43 |
| wrldpc | understood, ty :) | 06:43 |
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| wrldpc | anyone have artifact war pdf? | 08:24 |
| kanzure | fenn might | 08:26 |
| archels | Artilect War by DeGaris? | 08:46 |
| archels | I've looked it for it and come up empty.. | 08:46 |
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| delinquentme | if you're programming microcontrollers... what language are you using? | 08:47 |
| kanzure | assembly, motherfuckers | 08:49 |
| kanzure | but arduino has its own language | 08:50 |
| delinquentme | lol | 08:50 |
| delinquentme | yeah | 08:50 |
| delinquentme | but jcline said dont use c++ | 08:50 |
| delinquentme | me: wth? | 08:50 |
| delinquentme | i thought c++ and its variants ( the arduino lang ) are what you program with | 08:50 |
| kanzure | what else did he say | 08:50 |
| delinquentme | that was end of his statement on it | 08:51 |
| delinquentme | kanzure, you taking any of the other stanford classes? | 08:51 |
| kanzure | only a few hundred thousand times | 08:52 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/ai-class.py | 08:52 |
| archels | delinquentme: one uses C, generally. | 09:05 |
| delinquentme | ahh ok | 09:06 |
| archels | also wtf, there is no Arduino language | 09:06 |
| delinquentme | meh! | 09:06 |
| delinquentme | its the arduino variant | 09:06 |
| archels | just some C libraries to make it easier on the real dummies | 09:06 |
| delinquentme | are C and C++ horribly different | 09:06 |
| archels | You can technically use any language, so long as you can compile it to binary for your target. | 09:07 |
| archels | in syntax no, in philosophy yes | 09:07 |
| archels | But you don't really need object orientation on the average microcontroller. | 09:07 |
| kanzure | my bad.. i've never used arduino, just "raw compile yer binaries for the target" | 09:09 |
| archels | If you ever consider buying an Arduino, please mention it so I can slap some sense into you. | 09:10 |
| delinquentme | archels, i own one | 09:11 |
| delinquentme | lol | 09:11 |
| archels | Well, if you're with the real dummies I mentioned earlier, then that's fine. | 09:11 |
| delinquentme | so you're saying i could program a MC in ruby? | 09:11 |
| archels | Otherwise, you should realise by yourself pretty soon that you should dump it. | 09:12 |
| delinquentme | archels, the thing is i want a support community | 09:12 |
| delinquentme | arduino gives me that | 09:12 |
| archels | If you can find a compiler for it, sure! (Good luck with that.) | 09:12 |
| delinquentme | actually there is one | 09:12 |
| delinquentme | now that im actually thinking | 09:12 |
| delinquentme | RAD = ruby arduino development | 09:12 |
| archels | yeah? Might be, I'm not actually into Ruby at all. | 09:12 |
| archels | haha oh god it exists | 09:13 |
| archels | kinda lame that they called it *Arduino* development and not just 'Ruby for AVR' or somesuch | 09:15 |
| delinquentme | archels, where are your robots :D | 09:16 |
| delinquentme | anddo you prefer c or c++ | 09:16 |
| archels | C usually (like, 99.9%) gets the job done on a microcontroller. However, if your firmware is very complex, then there's much to be said for C++'s OO model. | 09:18 |
| delinquentme | 00 model? | 09:18 |
| archels | object oriented | 09:18 |
| archels | C++ gives a lot of overhead compared to C, so it's rarely used. | 09:19 |
| delinquentme | hmmm | 09:20 |
| archels | But it's a perfectly reasonable alternative, and there will be AVR compilers for it. | 09:21 |
| archels | http://www.nongnu.org/avr-libc/user-manual/FAQ.html#faq_cplusplus | 09:21 |
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| delinquentme | seeing all kinds of awesome posts about how intel is branching into bio research | 09:48 |
| delinquentme | .... from 2003 ;/ | 09:48 |
| klafka_ | LOL | 10:00 |
| klafka_ | there was a bit of a biotech bubble around then | 10:02 |
| delinquentme | wasnt that post burst? | 10:02 |
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| Tyrant | delinquentme: are you a robot with an identity crisis? | 10:25 |
| delinquentme | ha! | 10:25 |
| delinquentme | kinda lol | 10:25 |
| delinquentme | awesome.. so yeah its like wtf do i want it to do | 10:26 |
| delinquentme | im pretty settled on the peristaltic pump .. so no need for individual head controls | 10:26 |
| delinquentme | so its going ot basically be a 8 channel pipette ... i think im gonna do a slight up and down motion ... in attempt to control splash | 10:26 |
| delinquentme | and sticking to the plate moves underneath ... and with only a single plate running under the head | 10:27 |
| Tyrant | are you dispensing some sort of liquid from a reservoir into the plates or do you want to pull liquid from one plate and ddrop into another | 10:29 |
| delinquentme | dispensing from a resiviour | 10:30 |
| Tyrant | ah got it | 10:30 |
| Tyrant | that makes more sense | 10:30 |
| delinquentme | yeah thats that peristaltic pump goodness | 10:30 |
| Tyrant | are you sure it can get the kind of accuracies you'd need? | 10:31 |
| Tyrant | All of the dispensers I've seen that can do 1-10 or even 100uL were all notched piston based | 10:31 |
| delinquentme | yeah im shooting for 2uL | 10:31 |
| delinquentme | im pretty sure i can hit that ... comparatively its not really accurate | 10:31 |
| delinquentme | tbh i have no concept of the physican involved with the liquid moving ... this is a presumption | 10:32 |
| Tyrant | lol | 10:32 |
| delinquentme | maybe i should shoot for 10ul | 10:32 |
| Tyrant | even 10uL is difficult | 10:32 |
| delinquentme | welcome to my dev process | 10:32 |
| Tyrant | 1uL is doable | 10:32 |
| Tyrant | 100 nL is insane | 10:32 |
| delinquentme | yeah haha ill leave that up to the guy with precision ground ceramics | 10:33 |
| Tyrant | bleh im prototyping with 3d | 10:33 |
| Tyrant | printing | 10:33 |
| delinquentme | but i really love those actuators you sent | 10:33 |
| Tyrant | the ground ceramics have a 3 week lead time | 10:33 |
| delinquentme | fucking lead times | 10:33 |
| Tyrant | yeah | 10:33 |
| delinquentme | i did assloads of research on a stepper | 10:33 |
| Tyrant | I spent last few days contacting a lot of senior people at the 3d printer companeis | 10:34 |
| delinquentme | and they were like " awesome put in the order today and we can have them for you in 4 weeks" | 10:34 |
| Tyrant | last night the CEO fo Objet replied | 10:34 |
| delinquentme | -_-;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;; | 10:34 |
| Tyrant | hopefully that goes somewhere | 10:34 |
| Tyrant | mcmaster or amazon it | 10:34 |
| delinquentme | just dont buy ball bearings from mcmaster | 10:34 |
| delinquentme | DO however buy carbide shafts from them | 10:34 |
| klafka_ | hmm if there is a chance a reference could ever speak ill of you it probably behooves you to not use them | 10:35 |
| delinquentme | they're cheaper than their stainless lol | 10:35 |
| Tyrant | http://bigbearingstore.com/ | 10:35 |
| Tyrant | whoops wrong url | 10:35 |
| Tyrant | http://www.thebigbearingstore.com/ | 10:35 |
| delinquentme | klafka, get them to write a recommendation | 10:35 |
| klafka_ | delinquentme: job wants their # to call them | 10:35 |
| delinquentme | they're on a exotic trip researching in the Himalayas | 10:36 |
| delinquentme | wont have phone for the next 5 years | 10:36 |
| delinquentme | sounds legit right? | 10:36 |
| Tyrant | delinquentme: http://www.ivek.com/literature/pump_modules-illustrations_by_actuator_type.pdf | 10:39 |
| Tyrant | look at some of their pumps | 10:39 |
| Tyrant | try to copy them | 10:39 |
| Tyrant | just dont bother asking them for shit | 10:39 |
| delinquentme | free samples you mean? | 10:40 |
| Tyrant | anything | 10:41 |
| Tyrant | quotes | 10:41 |
| Tyrant | samples | 10:41 |
| Tyrant | common courtesy | 10:41 |
| Tyrant | im guessing their stuff is crazy expensive | 10:42 |
| Tyrant | so you definitely wont get samples | 10:42 |
| Tyrant | however, if the autopipetter is anything to go by, it's not very complicated | 10:43 |
| Tyrant | just high precision parts | 10:43 |
| delinquentme | who would have thought any innovation is going on in VT | 10:43 |
| delinquentme | did you specify " I'd like an email back " | 10:45 |
| delinquentme | ? | 10:45 |
| delinquentme | and Tyrant you're working on a multi plate handler .. so something with an array of say 12 plates ... with a XYZ head .. interchangeable tips | 10:46 |
| delinquentme | and what am i missing | 10:46 |
| Tyrant | i called them 4 times for a quote | 10:49 |
| Tyrant | yeha | 10:49 |
| Tyrant | 3' by 2' by 1-2' [xyz] | 10:49 |
| Tyrant | first target is 10uL then 1uL then .1uL | 10:49 |
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| Tyrant | with disposables or fixed tip | 10:50 |
| delinquentme | what processes jump between plates like that? | 10:50 |
| delinquentme | lots? | 10:51 |
| delinquentme | i was planning hotels for that | 10:51 |
| Tyrant | i have a list somewhere | 10:51 |
| Tyrant | but there are many processes that can be done via liquid handler | 10:52 |
| delinquentme | id love that list if its around :D | 10:53 |
| Tyrant | i'll find it after breakfast | 10:55 |
| delinquentme | awesome | 10:55 |
| Tyrant | ok this is a really specific list | 11:00 |
| Tyrant | western blots, qPCR, cell staining for microscopy and flowcytometry, RNA prep and cDNA synth, flow cytometry, transfection, cell splitting, DNA purification | 11:01 |
| delinquentme | actually this is prob a better question for you Tyrant ... pipette tips | 11:01 |
| delinquentme | they're fairly standard right? | 11:01 |
| delinquentme | the female ends i mean | 11:01 |
| delinquentme | IE the notch platement and the diameter | 11:02 |
| Tyrant | lolno | 11:03 |
| delinquentme | O_O | 11:03 |
| delinquentme | feck | 11:03 |
| delinquentme | thats gay | 11:03 |
| Tyrant | they're somewhat standard, but they all have a lot of differences | 11:03 |
| Tyrant | like Gilson has their Diamond series | 11:03 |
| Tyrant | its not compatible with many | 11:03 |
| delinquentme | whos tips should i design around | 11:03 |
| delinquentme | IE what is the most standard tip | 11:03 |
| Tyrant | no idea | 11:05 |
| Tyrant | my tip is just tapered so i can get as many as possible | 11:05 |
| delinquentme | http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-14763223 mini engines | 11:05 |
| delinquentme | how about the ejection mechanism | 11:06 |
| Tyrant | you just have metal rings that are not connected to the tip but are right above it so that when your linear actuator moves UP from its resting positing, the metal ring knocks off the tip | 11:07 |
| Tyrant | ie the linear actuator's resting position isn't fully retracted, it's 1cm extended and when it retracts to 0cm the disposable tips hit the metal ring | 11:09 |
| delinquentme | yeah same mechanism of ejecting on pipettes | 11:09 |
| delinquentme | ok Tyrant you mentioned the compression of air before | 11:16 |
| delinquentme | is there a specific reason that cant be handled in software? | 11:16 |
| Tyrant | It's very unpredictable | 11:16 |
| delinquentme | really? | 11:16 |
| delinquentme | how so | 11:16 |
| delinquentme | honestly i thought it would have been a simple function .. linear even | 11:16 |
| Tyrant | It depends on many many factors like the stiffness of your tubing, temperature, composition of the air, flow rate, and so on | 11:17 |
| Tyrant | The range of compression on water is +- 2% across all realistic conditions | 11:18 |
| Tyrant | on air the difference could be massive | 11:18 |
| Tyrant | and there will be no way to sense the compression | 11:18 |
| delinquentme | viscosity of liquid too | 11:18 |
| Tyrant | nor the exact conditions that you could use to calculate it | 11:18 |
| delinquentme | gotya | 11:19 |
| Tyrant | and if you could it would cost more than just using a system fluid anyway | 11:19 |
| Tyrant | What is this email that you sent me | 11:20 |
| delinquentme | its from the SILA guys | 11:20 |
| Tyrant | no idea what that is | 11:21 |
| delinquentme | they're a coop who work to standardize automation | 11:21 |
| delinquentme | Tecan and Thermo are members | 11:21 |
| Tyrant | lol | 11:24 |
| Tyrant | they'r members, they just dont follow teh standard? XP | 11:24 |
| delinquentme | haha well its like marriage counseling for biotech giants | 11:24 |
| delinquentme | before i talk too much shit ima check out their form standards | 11:25 |
| delinquentme | who knows ... pipette tips should be one of the first things that you standardize | 11:25 |
| delinquentme | and how about verification of liquid amounts Tyrant ? | 11:26 |
| Tyrant | Im not thinking about that right now | 11:26 |
| delinquentme | kk | 11:26 |
| Tyrant | im going to calibrate my equipment | 11:26 |
| delinquentme | the big guys use pressure profiles | 11:26 |
| Tyrant | but i dont know how to do that out in the field | 11:26 |
| Tyrant | as long as the movements are consistent i dont think i will need to do anything but confirm its pipetting at the right precision | 11:27 |
| delinquentme | agreed i think the "oh crap we picked up a leaf" are pretty fringe cases | 11:27 |
| Tyrant | you were right about 3d printing btsw | 11:29 |
| Tyrant | btw | 11:29 |
| Tyrant | i got pissed off at all the lead times and actually took a look at Objet and 3d Systems | 11:29 |
| Tyrant | those are some really nice printers | 11:30 |
| Tyrant | I contacted the CEO of Objet | 11:30 |
| Tyrant | hopefully i'll get one of their Connex systems | 11:31 |
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| delinquentme | hence why ive gone w the parameric | 11:51 |
| delinquentme | parametric | 11:51 |
| delinquentme | plus its just cool to see the production and the concepting to be mated so closely | 11:51 |
| Tyrant | what do you mean you went with hte parametric? | 11:52 |
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| delinquentme | the parametric sorry | 11:53 |
| delinquentme | solidworks | 11:53 |
| delinquentme | versus a cad 2d program | 11:53 |
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| Tyrant | lol | 12:02 |
| delinquentme | well others made suggestions as well :D | 12:05 |
| delinquentme | but like i think its fascinating how the coupling is becoming more and more intimate | 12:05 |
| Tyrant | yeah | 12:06 |
| delinquentme | like if you've got a good rendering of a machine in solid works .. you've basically got a working proto | 12:06 |
| Tyrant | but its so expensive | 12:06 |
| delinquentme | to print or buy software? | 12:06 |
| Tyrant | both lol | 12:06 |
| Tyrant | the software is generally thousands | 12:06 |
| Tyrant | the printing is tens of thousands | 12:06 |
| Tyrant | if not hundreds | 12:06 |
| Tyrant | for your own machine i mean | 12:06 |
| delinquentme | yeah i had to take out a loan against my power wheels | 12:07 |
| delinquentme | oh yeah fuck buying your own machine | 12:07 |
| delinquentme | well until its necessary | 12:07 |
| Tyrant | Its necessary right unfortuantely | 12:07 |
| Tyrant | im getting 1-2 week lead times for parts that i know im going to have to replace within a few days | 12:07 |
| delinquentme | whaaaat | 12:08 |
| delinquentme | have you tried 100k garages? | 12:08 |
| Tyrant | yeah | 12:08 |
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| Tyrant | everyone who has a good enough 3d printer is backed up | 12:08 |
| delinquentme | coudfab? | 12:10 |
| delinquentme | cloudfab** | 12:10 |
| Tyrant | 7-10 days | 12:10 |
| Tyrant | shapeways: 10 days | 12:10 |
| delinquentme | ponoko is gonna be longer | 12:11 |
| delinquentme | ummm | 12:11 |
| Tyrant | and their precision is suspect | 12:11 |
| delinquentme | have you tried contacting a manufacturer directly? | 12:11 |
| Tyrant | manufacturer of what? | 12:11 |
| delinquentme | surely the head guys at zcorp have one in their basement | 12:11 |
| Tyrant | ah i did | 12:11 |
| Tyrant | I contacted objet | 12:11 |
| delinquentme | so like the people who mfg the devices | 12:11 |
| Tyrant | CEO replied to me last night | 12:11 |
| delinquentme | and hes got to have a machine of his own | 12:11 |
| delinquentme | be like listen | 12:11 |
| Tyrant | waiting for the president of Objet US to contact me | 12:11 |
| delinquentme | this is something fundimentally different | 12:11 |
| delinquentme | im not making rocking chairs | 12:12 |
| delinquentme | Just shot an email to zcord guys | 12:17 |
| delinquentme | corp** | 12:17 |
| delinquentme | ill let u know | 12:17 |
| Tyrant | lol who'd you email | 12:18 |
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| ybit | the problem with the makerbot, go | 12:56 |
| ybit | s/go/discuss | 12:56 |
| ybit | all i see are phrases like it's the devil, but no reasons to back it up, closest i can see is "well at least makerbot admits they don't know what they're doing wrt electronics" | 12:57 |
| Tyrant | is this wrt what delinquent and i were just talking about? | 12:58 |
| ybit | did not know about this: http://reprap.org/wiki/1X2 | 12:59 |
| ybit | i thought it was a misspelling of "with" | 13:00 |
| ybit | or a netspeak spelling of "with" | 13:00 |
| Tyrant | ? | 13:01 |
| ybit | e.g. i has nomz in me kittens | 13:01 |
| ybit | http://pp3dp.com :: the price has been went up 1k | 13:02 |
| ybit | i'm guessing they are more concerned about profits then lowering the costs of 3d printing | 13:05 |
| ybit | s/then/than | 13:06 |
| ybit | so there's a complaint | 13:06 |
| * ybit retires to studies | 13:20 | |
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| ybit | Unredacted Wikileaks Cable Archive: http://cryptome.org/z/z.7z | 14:57 |
| delinquentme | Tyrant, did you happen to have specific steps for the protocols listed? | 15:03 |
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| Tyrant | delinquentme: no i don't, i just jotted down a quick list fo possible uses | 15:29 |
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| kanzure | ybit: you're screwing up your words dude | 16:07 |
| kanzure | ybit: wrt is "with respect to" | 16:07 |
| kanzure | "the price has been went up 1k" | 16:07 |
| kanzure | also, good morning | 16:07 |
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| ybit | yes, yes i saw that | 16:20 |
| ybit | also, good morning to you... where are you that it's morning time? :) | 16:20 |
| kanzure | austin | 16:21 |
| kanzure | how to run opencascade on android http://www.opencascade.org/org/forum/thread_21752/ | 16:21 |
| ybit | http://humanityplus.org/projects/gadaprize/ directs people to #hplusroadmap instead of ##hplusroadmap | 16:34 |
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| ybit | nsh is idling in #namespace probably for forgetting the second hash as well | 16:35 |
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| kanzure | ybit: humanityplus.org and i aren't on good terms any more | 16:50 |
| kanzure | they'd probably press legal action if i edit their site | 16:50 |
| Steel_ | your linkedin says you're still associate director of R&D? | 16:51 |
| kanzure | oh people use linkedin? | 16:52 |
| kanzure | hrm | 16:52 |
| ybit | heh | 16:52 |
| kanzure | wait i'm supposed to be away (finding breakfast) | 16:53 |
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| ybit | low hanging fruit for neurosci? | 17:28 |
| ybit | nm, got it | 17:33 |
| augur | so who's played DE:HR? :) | 17:36 |
| ybit | http://thebeautifulbrain.com/2011/08/bluebrain-year-two/ | 17:39 |
| ybit | blue brain documentary: year two | 17:40 |
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| kanzure | augur: eudoxia | 17:46 |
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| delinquentme | looking fo 1x1x3 cm sized linear actuators | 19:59 |
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| Tyrant | delinquentme: good luck, that's tiny :P | 20:30 |
| delinquentme | Tyrant, dude let me tell you | 20:31 |
| delinquentme | haha building this shit isnt hard | 20:31 |
| delinquentme | finding suppliers from all the trash out there is | 20:31 |
| Tyrant | i know that very well | 20:31 |
| Tyrant | thats all ive been doing for two weeks | 20:32 |
| delinquentme | im looking for CHEAP parts .. and i get plenty of matches on google for 1000 dollar linear actuators | 20:32 |
| delinquentme | WTF | 20:32 |
| delinquentme | no thanks | 20:32 |
| delinquentme | http://www.guardian-electric.com/DC_Tubular_Solenoids.htm | 20:32 |
| delinquentme | BAM this shit is like a $5 dollar job | 20:32 |
| delinquentme | woot! | 20:32 |
| Tyrant | what is this linear actuator for? | 20:33 |
| Tyrant | dont mistake solenoids with linear actuators | 20:34 |
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| delinquentme | yeah Tyrant i just need something that moves | 20:51 |
| delinquentme | its going to be lifting the very tips of my peristaltic pump tubes | 20:51 |
| delinquentme | up and down | 20:51 |
| Tyrant | you mean the dispensing tips? | 20:51 |
| delinquentme | so like its going to be lifting no more than 8 oz | 20:51 |
| delinquentme | yeah | 20:51 |
| delinquentme | tips and maybe the weight of 3 inches of tubing | 20:51 |
| Tyrant | i dont think you have any control over a solenoid's position | 20:52 |
| Tyrant | its either all extended or retracted | 20:52 |
| delinquentme | oh thats cool | 20:52 |
| delinquentme | :D | 20:52 |
| Tyrant | so you'll only be able to use it for one standard | 20:52 |
| Tyrant | height standard | 20:52 |
| delinquentme | yeah | 20:52 |
| delinquentme | alright sir! | 20:56 |
| delinquentme | im out | 20:56 |
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| delinquentme | Tyrant, dream of quick smooth and accurate mechanical motion | 20:56 |
| delinquentme | :P | 20:56 |
| Tyrant | you forgot precise | 20:56 |
| delinquentme | :D | 21:01 |
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| kanzure | blah now i have to develop for this shit? http://yi.baidu.com/ | 23:15 |
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| --- Log closed Tue Sep 06 00:00:57 2011 | ||
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