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| delinquentme | HI EVERYONE | 13:47 |
|---|---|---|
| delinquentme | I JUST KICKED BUTT AND NOW IM CODING! | 13:47 |
| * delinquentme lolz | 13:47 | |
| jrayhawk | to whom did the butt belong to at the time | 13:52 |
| delinquentme | jrayhawk, these sc2 nubs | 14:00 |
| delinquentme | i was telling the other team I was korean | 14:00 |
| delinquentme | HuK HuK GOSUUUUU ^_^;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;; like | 14:00 |
| delinquentme | and my partner in a 2v2 game let | 14:00 |
| delinquentme | so i took over and doubled up the multitasking and destroyed 2 other people | 14:01 |
| sylph_mako | Ugh sports. "Lets spend a lot of time and money getting good at doing something that doesn't matter" | 14:05 |
| jrayhawk | playing is our microcosmic model for living | 14:07 |
| sylph_mako | =) | 14:08 |
| delinquentme | innnteresting | 14:08 |
| delinquentme | i ike sc2 bc the mentak involvement | 14:08 |
| delinquentme | mentall** | 14:08 |
| jrayhawk | those who would undermine play undermine consequence-free problem-space exploration | 14:10 |
| sylph_mako | Play is notably different from focusing extensively on a narrow game. | 14:10 |
| delinquentme | jrayhawk, but then how do we appropriately approach the real world consequential world? | 14:10 |
| sylph_mako | I'm fine with play. With the right crowd Sc2 is play. But when you start reading strategy guides... | 14:12 |
| jrayhawk | those who are able to focus extensively on a narrow game are training themselves to focus extensively on a narrow problem space with real consequences. | 14:12 |
| jrayhawk | unless constantly attacked for doing so, in which case they'll wind up unmotivated and value-less | 14:14 |
| jrayhawk | (a circumstance schooling is specifically designed to engender) | 14:14 |
| sylph_mako | It's pretty demoralizing losing sc games to people who spend hours a day absorbing instruction -_- | 14:15 |
| delinquentme | sylph_mako, my biggest gripe is that only so often i get decisive victories | 14:16 |
| delinquentme | thats what I like | 14:16 |
| jrayhawk | that is because you have been trained to think winning matters more than learning does | 14:16 |
| delinquentme | when i CRUSH MY ENEMIES | 14:16 |
| jrayhawk | or even the simple act of play itself | 14:16 |
| jrayhawk | which is essentially equivalent to learning | 14:16 |
| sylph_mako | But I can't tell if I'm learning or not. I can't tell if my strategies work when I lose either way. | 14:17 |
| jrayhawk | loss is far more educational than victory; i would say an hour spent winning is worth far less than an hour spent losing | 14:17 |
| sylph_mako | I need friends who are as bad at sc as me. | 14:17 |
| delinquentme | sylph_mako, so yeah thats where build orders come in | 14:18 |
| delinquentme | essentially you google shit and just like in RL you learn from the hive | 14:18 |
| sylph_mako | Learning scripts... | 14:18 |
| delinquentme | so i had shitty build orders before | 14:18 |
| delinquentme | after a little research you can get that down | 14:18 |
| delinquentme | and then you get to about 40 supply where the complexity takes over and you can get creative | 14:18 |
| delinquentme | its a wonderfully complex game | 14:19 |
| delinquentme | lol im such a shit eating kid when it comes to that :D | 14:19 |
| delinquentme | ROOOAARR blink stratS! | 14:19 |
| delinquentme | and then of course demoralizing your opponents | 14:19 |
| jrayhawk | That's one thing that's always confused me about games like DOTA and, to a lesser extent, Starcraft. If the first five minutes are boilerplate, why even have them? | 14:20 |
| sylph_mako | jrayhawk, An hour spent winning, an hour spent losing, both worthless. Only a game consisting of many small wins and losses will tell you about the successes of individual units of strategy. | 14:20 |
| sylph_mako | I just wanted more micro the whole time. | 14:21 |
| jrayhawk | You would want a real-time tactics simulator, then. | 14:21 |
| sylph_mako | I have a theory that the game would be far more visceral if we could have multiple commanders to a team. | 14:22 |
| jrayhawk | Yeah, Starcraft had that in the form of, IIRC, "team melee" | 14:23 |
| sylph_mako | I mean, like controlling one army. | 14:23 |
| jrayhawk | It was fun to have one person dedicated to strategy and one to tactics. | 14:23 |
| sylph_mako | Sounds worthwhile. | 14:23 |
| jrayhawk | http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/Team_Melee | 14:24 |
| delinquentme | jrayhawk, well they're KIND of boiler plate | 14:25 |
| delinquentme | there are "cheezers" as they're referred to as | 14:25 |
| delinquentme | who get to incredible ranks by playing less-than-honorable? gaming strats | 14:25 |
| delinquentme | and like if you get good at cheezing youll rape | 14:25 |
| delinquentme | people have cheezed and pissed ppl off to the point where death threats were made | 14:26 |
| delinquentme | and accounts were banned :P | 14:26 |
| jrayhawk | Other than a gatherer-rush, it seems like there are no options up until the first offensive-unit structure. | 14:26 |
| delinquentme | well its a balance between micro and macro | 14:26 |
| delinquentme | and you can do 2v2 where youll have one person doing the micro and one macroing if you so choose | 14:26 |
| delinquentme | but the strats are nuts | 14:27 |
| delinquentme | and the following is fanatical | 14:27 |
| delinquentme | jrayhawk, yeah but the first offensive structures are like 2 minutes in | 14:28 |
| delinquentme | so yeah they could start the game with gatherers running and like 300 mins and it would cut of 2 mins | 14:28 |
| jrayhawk | Yeah, starcraft is a fairly minor sinner in that regard. DOTA is just awful. | 14:29 |
| delinquentme | ohh thats the WC3 mod right? | 14:30 |
| delinquentme | thats HUGE | 14:30 |
| delinquentme | that game if i recall correctly | 14:30 |
| delinquentme | not to mention that top skill sc2 players bring in 400k at big tourneys | 14:30 |
| delinquentme | but there is QUITE a bit of practice involved | 14:30 |
| kanzure | man what am i doing in sf | 14:35 |
| kanzure | why am i here | 14:35 |
| jrayhawk | life is suffering | 14:35 |
| jrayhawk | you are living large | 14:35 |
| kanzure | life is suffering. victory is death! something something | 14:36 |
| jrayhawk | death is only victory if you take the entire bay area with you | 14:36 |
| delinquentme | kanzure, eff that | 14:37 |
| delinquentme | Y U NO SF kanzure ? | 14:37 |
| kanzure | what the fuck is it with you and the leters 'y u no' | 14:37 |
| kanzure | *letters | 14:37 |
| kanzure | it's a trend or something | 14:37 |
| kanzure | you should stop... | 14:37 |
| jrayhawk | y u no like y u no | 14:37 |
| kanzure | LOLOLOLOLOL 1337 | 14:37 |
| kanzure | why is marliyn monroe using my app | 14:38 |
| kanzure | she just posted a video | 14:38 |
| kanzure | isn't she supposed to be dead | 14:38 |
| jrayhawk | did you make a safety coffin app | 14:38 |
| kanzure | not to my knowledge | 14:38 |
| kanzure | anything's possible i guess | 14:39 |
| delinquentme | YUO | 14:40 |
| delinquentme | http://memegenerator.net/instance/12374980 | 14:41 |
| delinquentme | lulz. | 14:41 |
| delinquentme | http://memegenerator.net/cache/instances/400x/10/10867/11128545.jpg | 14:42 |
| kanzure | do you need medical attention? | 14:44 |
| delinquentme | nurses. | 14:49 |
| delinquentme | kanz were you at the theil thing? | 14:49 |
| delinquentme | what was that about? | 14:49 |
| kanzure | nope didn't know about it until after | 14:50 |
| delinquentme | yeah the lego thing was novel | 14:51 |
| delinquentme | i would have just built the biggest mismatched structure I could .. | 14:51 |
| delinquentme | anyways .. have you worked w drew endy? | 14:52 |
| kanzure | nope | 14:54 |
| delinquentme | i thought he was pretty tied to OWW? | 15:05 |
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| kanzure | deliquentme: he moved to stanford, away from openwetware | 15:48 |
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| kanzure | "The findings only apply to the 612 chimpanzees owned or financed by the government. There are an additional 325 chimpanzees in research facilities around the country." | 16:38 |
| kanzure | that's all? | 16:38 |
| kanzure | surely our army of research chimps is larger? | 16:38 |
| jrayhawk | Usually smaller, less dangerous apes are used. | 16:43 |
| kanzure | marmosets | 16:44 |
| kanzure | screw that let's demand that everyone uses silverbacks | 16:44 |
| kanzure | http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009/10/29/article-1223621-06FD87B7000005DC-510_634x955.jpg | 16:47 |
| jrayhawk | Does those 612/325 numbers include bonobos? | 16:49 |
| jrayhawk | s/Does/Do/ | 16:49 |
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| Riencam | dear lord kanzure, did you remove me from the gtalk | 17:27 |
| kanzure | huh? i haven't removed anyone | 17:30 |
| kanzure | who are oyu | 17:30 |
| kanzure | you | 17:30 |
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| kanzure | http://open3dp.me.washington.edu/2011/12/printrbot-kickstarter-finish/ | 17:43 |
| kanzure | $830k | 17:43 |
| kanzure | oh this is nice.. if they release code http://open3dp.me.washington.edu/2011/03/implicit-solid-modeling/ | 17:46 |
| kanzure | ah right.. freps. http://faculty.washington.edu/ganter/research.html | 17:48 |
| kanzure | Ge(x,y,z) = max(x^2+y^2-196,-x^2-y^2+16,-min(max(x^2+y^2-138.0625000,-x^2-y^2+16,1/12*abs(z+20)-1,-z-20,-max(-x^2-y^2+64,x^2+y^2-625/4,1/8*abs(z+20)-1)),max(x^2+y^2-138.0625000,-x^2-y^2+16,1/12*abs(z-20)-1,z-20,-max(-x^2-y^2+64,x^2+y^2-625/4,1/8*abs(z-20)-1))),1/14*abs(z)-1 | 17:48 |
| kanzure | well it's obvious what that one is. | 17:48 |
| eudoxia | the function that describes the center of an elastomer obviously | 17:49 |
| kanzure | OBVIOUSLY | 17:49 |
| eudoxia | like can't you people see | 17:50 |
| kanzure | i'm not sure about the relative advantage of f-reps over patched b-reps really | 17:50 |
| kanzure | individual surfaces patchworked together versus a single equation | 17:51 |
| Riencam | this is the vanuatu guy. money should be arriving not too far from now. | 17:53 |
| Riencam | where were you | 17:53 |
| Stee| | kanzure, working on building a desktop SLA printer next semester maybe | 17:54 |
| kanzure | Riencam: i am traveling | 18:00 |
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| Riencam | i see | 18:25 |
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| kanzure | win 6 | 18:27 |
| kanzure | ejri30pojr2`iopjr | 18:27 |
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| strangewarp | Being depressed about all potential near-term events, while having an optimistic long-term philosophy like transhumanism, is really super-weird.. | 20:31 |
| eudoxia | It's pretty dissonant | 20:36 |
| eudoxia | if you extrapolate (Or is it interpolate when you have two data points?) it means at some point things have to start getting better | 20:36 |
| strangewarp | It seems, at times, that major governments and corporations are acting as though they've been explicitly advised to act against transhuman interests... (of course, Kass and Fukuyama advised Bush II, but that's only one datapoint and I'm wondering how widespread that sort of thing really is) | 20:47 |
| Stee| | Hmm | 20:48 |
| Stee| | you're perceiving wrong in my opinion | 20:49 |
| Stee| | people act against things they don't understand | 20:49 |
| kanzure | maybe you should act as if you don't expect any support from them | 20:50 |
| strangewarp | True.. that's a simpler explanation | 20:50 |
| Stee| | and not to trivialize | 20:51 |
| Stee| | but a lot of 'normal' folks are squicked out by transsexuals | 20:51 |
| Stee| | and that's barely dipping a toe into transhumanism as a larger philosophical bent | 20:51 |
| sylph_mako | Maybe sudden rapid change would cause severe instability and leaders know this? Why rush what's inevitable? | 20:52 |
| strangewarp | kanzure: Been trying to do that. I think I'm on the ass-end of transhumanism, since I'm unemployed and only have knowledge and education in the fine arts. Not much of an asset to the struggle | 20:52 |
| strangewarp | Stee|: Hm, I suppose I'm just pining for the security of a narrative, where there isn't one | 20:53 |
| Stee| | strangewarp, what's your FA background? | 20:53 |
| strangewarp | Studio arts, though I'm pretty sure I picked the wrong degree for my interests. Doing music things now. | 20:54 |
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| Stee| | there's always a lack of transhumanist cultural objects | 20:54 |
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| strangewarp | Indeed.. the only major explicitly transhumanist musical groups are Mind.in.a.box and The Kovenant, and I have issues with the quality of both of them | 20:55 |
| eudoxia | the last time I youtubed "transhumanist music" all I got was this shitty slideshow of space CGI along with the sound of a brick tumbling in a broken washing machine | 20:56 |
| eudoxia | I expected the GITS OST at least | 20:57 |
| strangewarp | The music from GITS was quite good... | 20:57 |
| klafka | gits is quality | 20:58 |
| Stee| | I mean | 20:58 |
| Stee| | I'm working with a friend of mine to understand what sort of themes and narrative you can weave into transhuman inspired jewelry and fashion | 20:59 |
| klafka | what would you define as a transhumanistic theme? | 21:03 |
| strangewarp | I always felt that arts based on the bodmod elements of transhumanism were some sort of compromise, as it's impossible for them to live up to the ideal... though there are artists like ORLAN who are conscious of that fact, and play with it in a way (actually I ought to read up on ORLAN's work more) | 21:03 |
| klafka | hmm interesting artist | 21:06 |
| strangewarp | klafka: Hmm... my definition is pretty broad, I guess, considering I drifted into transhumanism from the direction of the furry community, and even though they're largely totemic or fetishistic without having any opinions about technology, I like applying their semiotics to things | 21:06 |
| Stee| | Bleh :( | 21:07 |
| klafka | what are furry semiotics | 21:07 |
| sylph_mako | their artistic language. | 21:07 |
| klafka | I was asking for what that was | 21:07 |
| strangewarp | focus on the body, whereas the transhumanism I've encountered has largely been focused on the environment or the mind. | 21:07 |
| klafka | aah | 21:07 |
| klafka | I see | 21:07 |
| eudoxia | furry what | 21:07 |
| eudoxia | it doesn't show up on google, that's what it is | 21:08 |
| Stee| | I mean, for instance I've worked on themes involving stylized carbon nanotube dna | 21:08 |
| strangewarp | semiotics: the symbolism and tropes involved with a given thing. :p | 21:08 |
| eudoxia | I sort of like Luis Royo for the transhumanist themes | 21:08 |
| sylph_mako | You can't write down a semiotic =J | 21:08 |
| Stee| | yeah, I'd like to not mix transhumanism with that, though unfortunately it seems rather difficult at points. | 21:08 |
| eudoxia | http://www.documentingreality.com/forum/attachments/f181/47990d1241579080-louis-royo-art-part-1-3-luis-royo-21-.jpg | 21:08 |
| eudoxia | particularly this: http://onlyhdwallpapers.com/wallpaper/luis_royo_looks_nice_fantasy_love_general_desktop_1024x768_wallpaper-50419.jpg | 21:08 |
| Stee| | you can have a glossary | 21:09 |
| Stee| | honestly | 21:09 |
| klafka | interesting | 21:09 |
| Stee| | I try to pull from enlightenment era stuff a decent amount | 21:09 |
| klafka | sylph, you can study and describe semiotics thoug | 21:10 |
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| sylph_mako | I smell transhuman themes in everything. Dune is all about a certain kind of transhumanism. Breeding and spice. Then God Emperor Leto takes it even further. | 21:12 |
| sylph_mako | All despite denying the technological singularity. | 21:13 |
| eudoxia | haha, I do the same thing | 21:13 |
| sylph_mako | =J What's the song that sounds most transhuman to you while having nothing to do with it? | 21:13 |
| eudoxia | Lithium Flower | 21:14 |
| Stee| | Ironman, Black Sabbath | 21:14 |
| sylph_mako | Mine's Je Me Souvines, Jean Michelle Jar. Sounds like a mind transcended flesh handling its old human memories like tangible objects. | 21:14 |
| klafka | sylph_mako there are tons of transhumanist themes in literature | 21:14 |
| sylph_mako | Yeah I guess. | 21:14 |
| klafka | like look at all the literature on singularity scifi | 21:14 |
| eudoxia | I mean, Jesus, I thought Hylas and the Nymphs had "transhumanist themes". I'm that gone | 21:14 |
| klafka | i'd say all of glitch-hop has strong trends of transhumanism | 21:15 |
| Stee| | I wish there was more posthumanist fiction, compared to stuff like accelerando | 21:15 |
| eudoxia | what do you mean posthumanist? | 21:15 |
| eudoxia | taking place _after_ the entire solar system implements the Von Neumann architecture, as opposed to during? | 21:16 |
| Stee| | err, more focused on uplifted humans than consequences of ai stuff | 21:16 |
| eudoxia | right | 21:16 |
| strangewarp | Septic Flesh did some interesting songs that were incidentally about transhuman themes without being transhumanist, and I've been listening to them a lot lately since it's pretty quality music... ("Revolution DNA" isn't as good as their other albums though) | 21:17 |
| eudoxia | more transhumanist than singularitarian | 21:17 |
| klafka | um Stee| stross actually has a good book or novella on that actually | 21:17 |
| klafka | well it deals with both | 21:17 |
| eudoxia | which one? | 21:18 |
| klafka | ahaha i was actually thinking of accelerando | 21:18 |
| eudoxia | I assumed | 21:18 |
| Stee| | eh | 21:18 |
| klafka | just been awhile since i read it | 21:18 |
| Stee| | accelerando also has weird sexual politics and shit | 21:18 |
| eudoxia | haha, I remember that | 21:19 |
| klafka | also there is stuff like the lord of light | 21:19 |
| klafka | you could interpret that in a very transhumanist way | 21:19 |
| strangewarp | Accelerando's sexual politics, to me, read like they were written by a vanilla guy who was trying desperately to come up with contentious sexual politics ideas | 21:20 |
| Stee| | friends came over, afk | 21:21 |
| * strangewarp waves | 21:21 | |
| * eudoxia waves and returns to finding hidden futurist themes in John Waterhouse paintings | 21:22 | |
| sylph_mako | xD | 21:25 |
| sylph_mako | I just realized that a grip augmentation device[maybe little more than a two fingered claw wired to track with a person's fingers and atached to a forearm harness] would be either extremely useful for acrobatics, or the enabler of hundreds of shoulder dislocation injuries. | 21:28 |
| eudoxia | http://davidszondy.com/future/robot/hardiman3.jpg two fingered claw and exoskeleton | 21:29 |
| sylph_mako | =D | 21:29 |
| sylph_mako | Less an exoskeleton than a motor on wheels that follows you around? | 21:31 |
| eudoxia | take it or leave it | 21:31 |
| sylph_mako | A true traceur would find a way. | 21:33 |
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| --- Log closed Sun Dec 18 00:00:33 2011 | ||
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