| --- Log opened Fri Jan 27 00:00:34 2012 | ||
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| kanzure | hrm.. http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ninja/ninja-blocks-connect-your-world-with-the-web | 01:09 |
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| falmot | http://arbornet.org/~flamoot/telepathic-critterdrug.html | 01:15 |
| falmot | new species upped todayt | 01:15 |
| falmot | -t | 01:15 |
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| dsp_ | hello | 01:22 |
| kanzure | hi dsp_ | 01:29 |
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| Mariu | what's that ? | 01:33 |
| Mariu | advertising ? | 01:33 |
| @kanzure | schizophrenic homeless guy | 01:40 |
| @kanzure | thinks ben goertzel is in cahoots with some aliens in orbit | 01:41 |
| @kanzure | that implanted a chip in his head | 01:41 |
| @kanzure | and started a singularity | 01:41 |
| @kanzure | he's probably right, but i don't want to deal with it | 01:41 |
| Mariu | lol | 01:41 |
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| @kanzure | hi FreedomGeek | 05:54 |
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| FreedomGeek | Oh, Hi. | 06:49 |
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| @kanzure | kinda delayed? | 06:52 |
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| FreedomGeek | Kind of. I was (and still am) mostly paying attention to other things, | 07:19 |
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| utopiah_ | http://www.soton.ac.uk/~decode/index_files/Page804.htm | 07:50 |
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| @kanzure | blegh | 08:22 |
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| utopiah_ | http://code.google.com/p/sixthsense/ now GPL | 09:38 |
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| falmot | http://www.iheartchaos.com/post/16393143676/fun-with-math-dividing-one-by-998001-yields-a | 09:51 |
| falmot | wtf | 09:51 |
| falmot | carl sagan's Contact | 09:51 |
| falmot | shades of | 09:51 |
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| Mariu | see you all later | 15:34 |
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| @kanzure | nope | 15:40 |
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| JayDugger | Good evening, everyone. | 19:29 |
| @kanzure | hi | 19:32 |
| delinquentme | so project euler makes me feel like an idot | 20:03 |
| delinquentme | ^^^ see!!!!!!! | 20:03 |
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| Zach_ | s | 22:03 |
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| @kanzure | who is Zach342342343294 | 22:05 |
| Zach342342343294 | a random person kind of interested in transhumanism... | 22:05 |
| Zach342342343294 | is this a private channel? | 22:05 |
| @kanzure | no | 22:05 |
| Zach342342343294 | sorry i was just kind of dicking around and stumbled upon it | 22:06 |
| klafka | :P | 22:06 |
| @kanzure | http://gnusha.org/logs/ | 22:06 |
| klafka | i can't tell if these pants smell like cigarettes | 22:06 |
| klafka | or wtf | 22:06 |
| Zach342342343294 | is hplus magazine still in print? | 22:06 |
| @kanzure | no | 22:06 |
| @kanzure | hplusmagazine is just a blog | 22:06 |
| Zach342342343294 | didn't they used to have an actual magazine tho? | 22:06 |
| @kanzure | yes, but nobody bought it | 22:06 |
| Zach342342343294 | makes sence | 22:07 |
| Zach342342343294 | ever since i got a smart phone i've stopped reading magazines in the bathroom | 22:07 |
| delinquentme | Zach342342343294, let me know when you can wipe with ur smartphone | 22:08 |
| Zach342342343294 | ever since i got one with a physical keyboard | 22:09 |
| Zach342342343294 | how connected are all the tranhumanist/anti-death/singularity groups | 22:10 |
| Zach342342343294 | if noone minds me asking | 22:10 |
| delinquentme | Zach342342343294, i shit with my laptop | 22:10 |
| delinquentme | does that answer your question? | 22:11 |
| delinquentme | if i could have it wired up i would :D | 22:11 |
| @kanzure | Zach342342343294: pretty well connected.. why? | 22:11 |
| Zach342342343294 | you must have a giant ass | 22:11 |
| klafka | you guys are antagonistic tonight | 22:11 |
| klafka | heh | 22:11 |
| @kanzure | i haven't slept in 40 hours | 22:11 |
| yashgaroth | it's all the chafing from their deviant bathroom activities | 22:11 |
| Zach342342343294 | i was just wondering....it seems like there are like three focused on immortality, one or two existenial risk | 22:11 |
| @kanzure | existential risk is mostly bullshit | 22:12 |
| Zach342342343294 | don't knock it till you've tried it yashgaroth | 22:12 |
| @kanzure | why do you care about the groups, are you looking to contribute | 22:12 |
| Zach342342343294 | not really in a large enough sum to make a difference | 22:12 |
| yashgaroth | do you have technical expertise | 22:13 |
| @kanzure | ok then why are you here | 22:13 |
| Zach342342343294 | i'm just kind of wondering how viable the whole transhumanism thing is | 22:13 |
| @kanzure | it's viable | 22:13 |
| delinquentme | lolol | 22:13 |
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| Zach342342343294 | not really | 22:13 |
| delinquentme | Zach342342343294, more viable the quicker you start working at it | 22:13 |
| delinquentme | agreed? | 22:13 |
| delinquentme | :D | 22:13 |
| @kanzure | delinquentme: i hate explaining that to people. it's just endless. | 22:14 |
| delinquentme | and existential dilemmas ? eff that colonize other planets | 22:14 |
| Zach342342343294 | is there any opportunity for neuroscience stuff? i would like to contribute but am just a student | 22:14 |
| delinquentme | kanzure, i think there are multiple approaches | 22:14 |
| delinquentme | preachy vrs inspiring | 22:14 |
| @kanzure | everyone is brainwashed into the opposite opinion | 22:14 |
| @kanzure | it's a losing battle | 22:14 |
| @kanzure | doesn't matter anyway. | 22:14 |
| delinquentme | i went for the preachy bc i didnt wrap it up in a better mindhack | 22:14 |
| delinquentme | ( which i should have ) | 22:14 |
| @kanzure | Zach342342343294: yes we have some comp neurosci people in here | 22:14 |
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| delinquentme | kanzure, how many ways are there for females to look younger | 22:15 |
| delinquentme | that shits there already | 22:15 |
| @kanzure | photoshop.jpg | 22:15 |
| delinquentme | lolol | 22:15 |
| @kanzure | oh you mean | 22:15 |
| @kanzure | right. | 22:15 |
| Zach342342343294 | are there any open source comp neurosci projects that would help with the whole living forever thing? | 22:17 |
| yashgaroth | if you think mind uploading is viable | 22:17 |
| Zach342342343294 | i was thinking partial replacement | 22:18 |
| Zach342342343294 | like first hippocampus then move on and on | 22:18 |
| Zach342342343294 | all at once destructive scanning is a bit frightening | 22:18 |
| @kanzure | there's some tools for neuron reconstruction from microtome images | 22:19 |
| yashgaroth | may I also recommend brain-computer interfacing | 22:19 |
| delinquentme | Zach342342343294, if we can stave off alzheimers | 22:19 |
| @kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/neuro/implants/ | 22:19 |
| delinquentme | would an OK solution be brain-in-vessle? | 22:20 |
| @kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/neuro/ | 22:20 |
| @kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/brain-emulation-roadmap-report.pdf | 22:20 |
| Zach342342343294 | kanzure, i can't get over the whole copies thought experiment | 22:20 |
| Zach342342343294 | i am afraid it would just be a copy if it was done destructivly | 22:20 |
| yashgaroth | head-in-vessel is theoretically possible today, delinq | 22:20 |
| @kanzure | the what | 22:20 |
| @kanzure | is this some bullshit about identity/consciousness | 22:20 |
| yashgaroth | but what if there's two of me in the computer | 22:21 |
| delinquentme | yashgaroth, so not a bad workaround :D | 22:21 |
| @kanzure | oh geeze. i'm too tired to convince you against the existence of consciousness/identity | 22:21 |
| * kanzure sleeps | 22:21 | |
| delinquentme | ^^^ lacks consciousness | 22:21 |
| delinquentme | :=] | 22:21 |
| yashgaroth | ho ho | 22:21 |
| @kanzure | it's just some folk psychology term | 22:21 |
| @kanzure | nobody has been able to prove its existence in the brain | 22:21 |
| Zach342342343294 | but what if i was copied now? | 22:21 |
| @kanzure | it's worthless. | 22:21 |
| Zach342342343294 | and my copy woke up | 22:22 |
| @kanzure | copy of what, your connectome? | 22:22 |
| Zach342342343294 | and me and my copy were looking at eachother | 22:22 |
| Zach342342343294 | then they killed my copy | 22:22 |
| Zach342342343294 | yea | 22:22 |
| Zach342342343294 | atom for atom | 22:22 |
| Zach342342343294 | we would start diverging of course | 22:22 |
| @kanzure | ok your connectome is more of a graph, not about atoms | 22:22 |
| @kanzure | why does this thought experiment matter | 22:23 |
| delinquentme | Zach342342343294, you're simply interested in persisting your consciousness right? | 22:23 |
| delinquentme | bc i agree the shit out of this. | 22:23 |
| Zach342342343294 | yes | 22:23 |
| @kanzure | what? consciousness is what now | 22:24 |
| Zach342342343294 | i want the thread that is me to go on forever | 22:24 |
| @kanzure | come on, no philosophy in here. please be specific. | 22:24 |
| yashgaroth | the intersection of philosophy and science that inevitably happens with this discussion is why I don't get too involved | 22:25 |
| Zach342342343294 | whatever is happening in my brain, i want that to last forever | 22:25 |
| @kanzure | Zach342342343294: :) | 22:25 |
| Zach342342343294 | and wouldn't partial brain replacement be easier than mind uploading? | 22:25 |
| Zach342342343294 | destructivly | 22:25 |
| @kanzure | it depends, are you going to imagine nanotech replacing your brain | 22:25 |
| @kanzure | or physical surgery | 22:25 |
| @kanzure | in which case, how do you get to surgically inoperable regions of the brain | 22:26 |
| Zach342342343294 | i was thinking physical surgery, because i don't think nanotech will be close to where it needs to be | 22:26 |
| @kanzure | you can use optical/magnetic/acoustic methods to manipulate regions deep in the brain, but you can't easily move things into that region without disrupting nearby matter | 22:26 |
| delinquentme | kanzure, hes just wanting to remain behind his eyes | 22:26 |
| delinquentme | HE | 22:26 |
| delinquentme | " HE " | 22:26 |
| delinquentme | while possibly vague I think you understand | 22:26 |
| @kanzure | what? | 22:26 |
| @kanzure | delinquentme: you're not helping :P | 22:26 |
| @kanzure | yashgaroth: you're wiser than the rest of us | 22:26 |
| @kanzure | nope | 22:27 |
| @kanzure | i think you're just wasting our time | 22:27 |
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| delinquentme | uniqanomaly, whats upman! | 22:27 |
| delinquentme | finally got unbanned from #ai | 22:27 |
| delinquentme | took 2 days of petitioning | 22:27 |
| Zach342342343294 | well tbh the philosophy doesn't really matter | 22:28 |
| Zach342342343294 | its more the practicality | 22:29 |
| delinquentme | engines of creation audiobook megaupload, =[ | 22:29 |
| yashgaroth | if you want practicality, ignore mind uploading for the next 50-100 years | 22:29 |
| Zach342342343294 | in favor of? | 22:29 |
| Zach342342343294 | SENS? | 22:29 |
| @kanzure | neural circuit reconstruction already works, what's wrong with it | 22:29 |
| yashgaroth | brain-computer interfacing, or yes living long enough for nano to become good enough | 22:29 |
| Zach342342343294 | invasive brain computer interfacing? | 22:30 |
| yashgaroth | best kind | 22:30 |
| Zach342342343294 | is anyone doing that type of stuff? | 22:31 |
| yashgaroth | sure, there's that monkey with the robot arm and shit | 22:31 |
| @kanzure | there are many invasive brain-computer interface projects | 22:31 |
| Zach342342343294 | most of the bci i see are crappy eeg type stuff | 22:31 |
| @kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/neuro/implants/ | 22:31 |
| Zach342342343294 | i thought the monkeys used periphial nerves | 22:31 |
| @kanzure | ignore eeg-anything. it's worthless. | 22:31 |
| yashgaroth | nope, straight into the motor cortex afaik | 22:32 |
| @kanzure | yashgaroth: have you seen the "light-controlled gene expression in mouse motor cortex" | 22:32 |
| uniqanomaly | delinquentme: http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120126/12313917555/polish-politicians-don-guy-fawkesanonymous-masks-to-protest-acta-signing.shtml ;] | 22:32 |
| Zach342342343294 | kanzure, thanks for the papers | 22:32 |
| yashgaroth | yeah optogenetics is interesting, but you won't get interfacing with it | 22:33 |
| uniqanomaly | delinquentme: funny, I started doing project euler stuff 2 days ago | 22:33 |
| @kanzure | yashgaroth: should be something on http://anselmlevskaya.com/ about it.. | 22:33 |
| @kanzure | "Spatiotemporal control of cell signalling using a light-switchable protein interaction" | 22:33 |
| @kanzure | yashgaroth: sure. | 22:33 |
| @kanzure | yashgaroth: i have no delusions about that | 22:33 |
| Zach342342343294 | doesn't optogenetics need genetically engineered subjects? | 22:33 |
| delinquentme | ha thats awesome | 22:33 |
| delinquentme | uniqanomaly, i've done 3 | 22:34 |
| Zach342342343294 | is it possible to use viruses to do it? | 22:34 |
| @kanzure | Zach342342343294: yes | 22:34 |
| uniqanomaly | delinquentme like 3 problems? | 22:34 |
| delinquentme | ya | 22:34 |
| uniqanomaly | hah ok | 22:34 |
| yashgaroth | and yes to viruses, especially with neurons it's the safest way | 22:34 |
| uniqanomaly | i did first 14 in a row | 22:34 |
| uniqanomaly | xD | 22:34 |
| delinquentme | nice! | 22:34 |
| uniqanomaly | nah | 22:34 |
| delinquentme | its kind of addictive | 22:34 |
| uniqanomaly | I hope so | 22:34 |
| uniqanomaly | ;] | 22:34 |
| uniqanomaly | that kind of stuff is best for learning | 22:35 |
| uniqanomaly | hmm | 22:36 |
| delinquentme | ^^^^ | 22:36 |
| uniqanomaly | project euler like site with categories, anyone can add new challenges that would be cool | 22:37 |
| Zach342342343294 | kanzure: are all invasive bci's based on electrodes? or is there another way to cross the machine-brain barrier? | 22:37 |
| uniqanomaly | I see it's just math directed | 22:37 |
| @kanzure | light, sound, magnetism, electrical stimulation, .. | 22:37 |
| * kanzure sleeps for real | 22:38 | |
| yashgaroth | all the current and invasive ones are electrode though, afaik | 22:39 |
| yashgaroth | though in the future you could monitor peripheral nerves instead of the motor cortex | 22:39 |
| yashgaroth | see: subvocal communication by monitoring vocal nerves | 22:39 |
| Zach342342343294 | could peripheral nerves be used for anything except motor control? | 22:40 |
| uniqanomaly | anyone working on EEG electrode arrays like 256x256 electrodes? | 22:41 |
| Zach342342343294 | i thought it was more like 64, 128 max | 22:42 |
| yashgaroth | if you're really good with a chorded keyboard you could do data entry, but the incoming signals would need to be based on touch perception | 22:42 |
| Zach342342343294 | so would the idea be to be a brain in a vat until mind uploading or nanotech happens? | 22:43 |
| uniqanomaly | anyone seen moore's law like graph for eeg electrodes? :P | 22:43 |
| Zach342342343294 | i'm not seeing how doing stuff like data entry and controlling an artifical arm helps perserve my mind | 22:44 |
| yashgaroth | *head* in a vat, unless you like existential hell with no senses | 22:44 |
| Stee| | brain in a vat | 22:44 |
| Stee| | you simulate senses | 22:44 |
| delinquentme | ahhh what are these notations referred to as A1 = [0, 1), A2 = [1, 2), A3 = [2, 3), .. where the square brackets and parenthesis infer something about the set | 22:44 |
| Stee| | Zach342342343294: Because it involves interfacing to nerves, etc. | 22:44 |
| delinquentme | Stee|, its called "world of warcraft" | 22:44 |
| Stee| | WoW sucks :P | 22:44 |
| yashgaroth | I guess, but unless you get head cancer it's probably a lot easier to keep it | 22:44 |
| Zach342342343294 | well the whole moving over to a vat would already be a last ditch effort | 22:45 |
| Zach342342343294 | i would imagine | 22:45 |
| Stee| | I prefer brain in a jar | 22:45 |
| Stee| | although I'm more a 'build an artificial brain around my organic one' | 22:45 |
| Zach342342343294 | stee| that would work too | 22:46 |
| yashgaroth | I prefer "slowly replace my brain with an artificial nervous system", but same diff | 22:46 |
| Zach342342343294 | is anything happening with that? | 22:46 |
| Zach342342343294 | i've read about ted berger's artificial hippocampus | 22:46 |
| Zach342342343294 | but thats the only remotely replace-part-of-the-brain thing i've seen | 22:47 |
| Stee| | yeah | 22:47 |
| Stee| | I'm not fond of uploading | 22:47 |
| rkos | would it make any difference whether you replaced the brain all at once or just piece by piece? | 22:47 |
| Zach342342343294 | i hope its not because of philosophy, kanzure and yashgaroth wouldn't like that | 22:47 |
| Stee| | I don't particularly give a shit :P | 22:48 |
| yashgaroth | with unlimited technology, it wouldn't matter either way | 22:48 |
| Stee| | I view 'continuity' of consciousness as the thing that defines me. | 22:48 |
| Zach342342343294 | rkos, apparently identity is an illusion so it doens't matter | 22:48 |
| Stee| | So I'm going to theseus ship my brain. | 22:48 |
| Stee| | Everything's a fucking illusion, identity is one I choose to pick. | 22:48 |
| Zach342342343294 | so is the best way to help this happen still become a professor? | 22:49 |
| Zach342342343294 | or get rich and donate? | 22:49 |
| Stee| | I like the second one | 22:49 |
| Stee| | kanzure prefers DIYers | 22:49 |
| rkos | but theres no you so you can't choose! its just what some sort of random calculation ends up choosing | 22:49 |
| rkos | though i guess you could call all that randomness you | 22:49 |
| Stee| | rkos: Illusion of choice. | 22:49 |
| Stee| | Zach342342343294: Go with what you're good at. | 22:49 |
| Stee| | Become world class at it. | 22:49 |
| Zach342342343294 | yashgaroth: i am worried about surviving till there is unlimited technology | 22:50 |
| yashgaroth | that's why we're here | 22:50 |
| Stee| | we're all here for different reasons, really | 22:50 |
| Zach342342343294 | well i am here because i am very selfish and fear death | 22:51 |
| yashgaroth | honestly I don't expect to live forever, but I hope to at least create the generation that does | 22:51 |
| rkos | why are you worried Zach342342343294, is there some extremely important information hidden in your body that humanity needs to secure in the future? | 22:51 |
| Stee| | rkos: Honestly, I'm a nihilist. | 22:51 |
| Zach342342343294 | yashgaroth: you are a great person then, much better than me | 22:52 |
| Stee| | So I'm pretty concerned for myself first and foremost. | 22:52 |
| Stee| | well, not nihilist | 22:52 |
| Stee| | more a perspectivist | 22:52 |
| Zach342342343294 | i am narcissistic | 22:52 |
| rkos | yeah but where do you put the boundaries of yourself | 22:52 |
| Zach342342343294 | my brain/mind/body | 22:52 |
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| Stee| | rkos: Where the pattern that calls itself myself considers them to be most useful | 22:53 |
| Zach342342343294 | unfortunatly i have not yet dropped acid so I haven't realized that we are all one | 22:53 |
| yashgaroth | oh dear we're back to philosophy again | 22:53 |
| Stee| | for instance, I consider my computer an extension of myself that I don't have a direct neural connection to it | 22:53 |
| Stee| | Philosophy is important for laws. | 22:53 |
| Zach342342343294 | you started it yashgaroth | 22:53 |
| yashgaroth | damnit | 22:54 |
| Zach342342343294 | but to get away from it...is there a generally agreed upon best plan of action to live until the singularity? | 22:54 |
| rkos | well why would you not consider other people an extension of yourself? | 22:54 |
| Stee| | Zach: Well, some of us don't believe in the singularity | 22:54 |
| Zach342342343294 | i know take fish oil | 22:54 |
| Stee| | I'm more a transhumanist as opposed to the singularitarian | 22:55 |
| rkos | though i agree that philosophy only ever leads to thinking in circles, its a fun past time but not really useful | 22:55 |
| Stee| | rather, I believe that man will incorporate machine before we have machines in the likeness of man. | 22:55 |
| yashgaroth | you've got benevolent AI, nanorobots, uploading, genetic modification, pick one or more | 22:55 |
| Zach342342343294 | stee|: i know, so then live until mind uploading comes | 22:55 |
| Stee| | or brain replacement, my preferred one :P | 22:55 |
| Stee| | anyway | 22:55 |
| Stee| | be in shape | 22:55 |
| Stee| | take antioxidants | 22:56 |
| Stee| | are you a student right now? | 22:56 |
| Zach342342343294 | yes | 22:56 |
| Zach342342343294 | a shitty one tho | 22:56 |
| Stee| | college? | 22:56 |
| Zach342342343294 | so don't say get a job in finance or be a professor | 22:56 |
| Zach342342343294 | yea | 22:56 |
| Stee| | what's your major? | 22:57 |
| Zach342342343294 | biomedical engineering | 22:57 |
| uniqanomaly | Zach342342343294: get rich and fund all unethical research that will get us there faster in some bunker in Africa | 22:57 |
| Zach342342343294 | i wish i could uniqanomaly | 22:57 |
| Stee| | Zach: What year? | 22:57 |
| Zach342342343294 | its the get rich part that is throwing me | 22:57 |
| Zach342342343294 | junior, but i am taking 5 years to graduate | 22:58 |
| yashgaroth | okay just befriend rich people then | 22:58 |
| Stee| | that one works | 22:58 |
| Stee| | I'm working on that one AND the get rich one | 22:58 |
| Stee| | Zach: Read a lot, go into prosthetics | 22:58 |
| Zach342342343294 | yashgaroth: good point | 22:59 |
| rkos | whore out to venture capitalists | 22:59 |
| Zach342342343294 | i wonder if i can pull a lex luthor and marry a rich old lady? | 22:59 |
| Stee| | (I'm trying to get into VC) | 22:59 |
| uniqanomaly | Zach342342343294: tourist ships for rich fucks with thousands of different pharma grade drugs and medical supervision | 23:00 |
| rkos | get capital or get into investing? | 23:00 |
| Zach342342343294 | good luck stee| | 23:00 |
| Stee| | rkos: Get into investing. | 23:00 |
| Zach342342343294 | i have actually thought about that uniqanomaly | 23:00 |
| Zach342342343294 | but it needs a lot of startup capital | 23:00 |
| uniqanomaly | Zach342342343294: theres no law at international waters;) | 23:00 |
| uniqanomaly | yea | 23:00 |
| Zach342342343294 | actually i was thinking an insurance plan where all major surgeries are done somewhere in africa | 23:01 |
| Zach342342343294 | or on a boat | 23:01 |
| rkos | good luck, i hope ill someday be able to do so too | 23:01 |
| Zach342342343294 | would be good too | 23:01 |
| yashgaroth | man just go to china, they give no fucks and actually have money | 23:01 |
| Stee| | basically, I have a physics degree and an engineering degree | 23:01 |
| Zach342342343294 | or china | 23:01 |
| Stee| | but my real love is business | 23:01 |
| Zach342342343294 | because us medical costs are huge | 23:01 |
| uniqanomaly | nah, in china you get shot in the head for drugs | 23:01 |
| Zach342342343294 | *USA's | 23:01 |
| yashgaroth | haha they're corrupt enough to not care about that either | 23:01 |
| Zach342342343294 | have you all seen http://www.weeklystandard.com/articles/xinjiang-procedure_610145.html? | 23:02 |
| Zach342342343294 | tldr: china kills people for organs | 23:02 |
| uniqanomaly | yashgaroth: I've read they terminate ppl for coruption | 23:02 |
| uniqanomaly | funny how that creates evolutionary pressure for better corruption :D | 23:03 |
| yashgaroth | token people, sure, but it's an extremely corrupt bureaucracy | 23:03 |
| uniqanomaly | like drug war in mexico | 23:03 |
| uniqanomaly | all they get is better organised criminals | 23:03 |
| yashgaroth | the drug war selects for psychopaths | 23:03 |
| rkos | i've always respected the chinese for their no nonsense approach to biotechnology though | 23:03 |
| rkos | nothing like what its here in europe | 23:04 |
| uniqanomaly | rkos: yeah | 23:04 |
| Zach342342343294 | rkos: i've heard a lot of chinese science is really shitty. do you have any examples of chinese biotech stuff that is working well? | 23:04 |
| Zach342342343294 | i have heard of people going to china for stem cell therapy | 23:04 |
| yashgaroth | billions of dollars + populace to experiment on, something's bound to happen | 23:05 |
| uniqanomaly | rkos: I like that they rutinely use herbs for stuff like flu | 23:05 |
| yashgaroth | anyway, if the science is 10x shittier than the U.S.'s, it still costs 20x less | 23:05 |
| rkos | cant think of any examples | 23:06 |
| Zach342342343294 | good point yahgaroth | 23:06 |
| rkos | cant say i ever hear much about china except from second or third hand accounts, they dont seem to be all that interested in any other kind of publicity but promoting their ancient history | 23:07 |
| Zach342342343294 | true rkos | 23:07 |
| Zach342342343294 | what about russia? | 23:08 |
| yashgaroth | they don't need indigenous research anyway, plenty of western companies are just moving there | 23:08 |
| Zach342342343294 | i have always imagined they have a lot of crazy biotech researchers from the cold war | 23:08 |
| Zach342342343294 | like the dog head experiments and stuff | 23:08 |
| uniqanomaly | yeah dog head exps were awesome | 23:09 |
| yashgaroth | USSR never really got too far into genetics, because genetics supposedly contradicts glorious communist principles | 23:09 |
| Zach342342343294 | that probably held them up then | 23:09 |
| Zach342342343294 | bummer | 23:09 |
| rkos | i dont know about russia but india ought to be some kind of mecca for patients for research | 23:10 |
| rkos | not ought, is according to one book at least | 23:10 |
| Zach342342343294 | i can't help but think there is some clandestine lab somewhere doing crazy biotech shit on poor people | 23:11 |
| yashgaroth | it totally is the mecca, same with thailand | 23:11 |
| Zach342342343294 | for clinical trials yashgaroth/rkos? | 23:11 |
| Zach342342343294 | or the basic research itself | 23:11 |
| rkos | clinical trials | 23:11 |
| yashgaroth | and all that semi-approved stem cell stuff | 23:12 |
| yashgaroth | 1st world countries don't usually accept clinical trials from elsewhere | 23:12 |
| Zach342342343294 | yashgaroth: i was thinking they would run a cheap one there to know if they shoudl invest in first world ones | 23:13 |
| yashgaroth | oh, unofficially, sure | 23:13 |
| rkos | http://books.google.fi/books?hl=fi&id=5tGzaUXMJ-AC&q=wellspring#v=snippet&q=wellspring&f=false should be on page 95 | 23:13 |
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| Zach342342343294 | interesting rkos | 23:14 |
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| yashgaroth | considering a full approval can cost a half billion dollars, it makes perfect sense | 23:15 |
| Zach342342343294 | i wonder if they ever try any really out there things like genetic therapy and stuff | 23:16 |
| yashgaroth | if there's only one clandestine lab doing 'crazy biotech shit on poor people', it's in china | 23:17 |
| yashgaroth | and genetic therapy isn't too 'out there' these days\ | 23:18 |
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| Zach342342343294 | didn't it kill some kid in the us? | 23:18 |
| yashgaroth | yes, but that was due to the vector | 23:19 |
| yashgaroth | that death set back a very promising field 10 years | 23:19 |
| Zach342342343294 | have there been trials since then? | 23:19 |
| yashgaroth | plenty | 23:19 |
| Zach342342343294 | in the first world? | 23:19 |
| yashgaroth | not so many, but they're coming back | 23:20 |
| yashgaroth | lemme find that hemophilia one real quick | 23:20 |
| Zach342342343294 | it cool i am actually looking at a few on wikipedia | 23:20 |
| Zach342342343294 | one for blindness a couple in dogs | 23:20 |
| yashgaroth | but the main difference from when that kid died was that the viral vectors, if they use them at all, don't just shit all over the genome and activate oncogenes | 23:21 |
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| yashgaroth | this is my unofficial field of expertise btw if you have any specific questions | 23:22 |
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| Zach342342343294 | cool yashgaroth i will take your word for it that its not as dead as it seemed | 23:24 |
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| Zach342342343294 | so is singularitism pretty separate from transhumanism? | 23:25 |
| yashgaroth | depends who you ask, I'd call singularitarians a sub-branch of H+ers | 23:25 |
| Zach342342343294 | so is hplus the main transhumanism group? | 23:27 |
| Zach342342343294 | or is there a bigger one? | 23:27 |
| Zach342342343294 | it all seems kind of small to be honest | 23:28 |
| Zach342342343294 | and the techinical challenges so large | 23:28 |
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| ygh | not sure what happened there | 23:30 |
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| yashgaroth | but yes, we have limited resources and great challenges ahead of us etc. etc. | 23:31 |
| Zach342342343294 | bummer | 23:31 |
| yashgaroth | well, the science gets done and more people get turned on to futurism...that's why my main priority is life extension | 23:32 |
| yashgaroth | science is slow and people are dumb, so hedge your bets and live til it happens | 23:32 |
| yashgaroth | I am somewhat surprised more rich people aren't getting into it though, unless there's some secret funding cabal on a floating island | 23:33 |
| Zach342342343294 | i saw an article several years ago about how a bunch of hedge fund managers were funding it | 23:33 |
| Zach342342343294 | but i think it was mostly peter thiel | 23:34 |
| yashgaroth | yeah all the ex-paypal guys are the main ones right now | 23:34 |
| yashgaroth | him and elon musk and the other one | 23:34 |
| uniqanomaly | http://www.neatorama.com/2011/09/04/young-blood-can-rejuvenate-old-brain/ that one | 23:35 |
| uniqanomaly | I guess there is something in vampire stories | 23:35 |
| uniqanomaly | It's all about hormone levels in blood isn't it? | 23:35 |
| uniqanomaly | and stuffs | 23:35 |
| yashgaroth | mostly yes | 23:36 |
| Zach342342343294 | is there a mouse model for alzhiemers? | 23:36 |
| yashgaroth | there's a few crappy ones | 23:36 |
| Zach342342343294 | bummer again | 23:37 |
| yashgaroth | but alzheimer's, it's like, I've got a good 50 years before I need to worry about that | 23:38 |
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| yashgaroth | old people can go eat a dick | 23:38 |
| Zach342342343294 | well it seems the main thing that would destroy your brain | 23:38 |
| uniqanomaly | someone gotta write paper like 'blood from how many children is enough to live forever' | 23:39 |
| uniqanomaly | http://www.mprize.org/ | 23:40 |
| uniqanomaly | The Mprize, introduced in 2003, is designed to directly accelerate the development of revolutionary new life extension therapies. The prize pot continues to grow through donations; awards are made whenever a research team extends the life of mice. There are two categories of cash prizes: | 23:40 |
| uniqanomaly | * Longevity - to the research team that breaks the world record for the oldest-ever mouse | 23:40 |
| uniqanomaly | * Rejuvenation - to the team that develops the most successful late-onset rejuvenation that extends the life of the mice | 23:40 |
| uniqanomaly | way to get some $ if young blood is the way | 23:41 |
| Zach342342343294 | i don't think brain problems is a leading cause of death for mice | 23:42 |
| yashgaroth | we've discovered a way to repel cats, money please | 23:42 |
| uniqanomaly | I mean life extension | 23:42 |
| uniqanomaly | young blood tranfusions as life extension | 23:42 |
| Zach342342343294 | it seems a big leap from 'young blood helps mice brains' to 'young blood helps mice' | 23:43 |
| yashgaroth | isolating exactly what parts of blood cause it would be a worthwhile experiment | 23:44 |
| Zach342342343294 | and easy | 23:44 |
| yashgaroth | I mean, I love juicing babies as much as the next guy, but | 23:44 |
| yashgaroth | not easy if it's a combination of stuff, but certainly feasible | 23:44 |
| uniqanomaly | at some point you just sell transfusion sets with artificial blood to put on at night | 23:45 |
| uniqanomaly | tens of billions to be made | 23:45 |
| yashgaroth | problem is, both government and industry funding is entirely focused on disease-based research, rather than general life extension | 23:46 |
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| uniqanomaly | yeah, all the stuff from blood would be probably classified as drugs | 23:46 |
| uniqanomaly | "death is not a disease" and such other bullshit | 23:47 |
| yashgaroth | it is also a good way of funneling money from old people to young people, which I like | 23:47 |
| Zach342342343294 | yashgaroth have you read 2030 by albert brooks? | 23:47 |
| Zach342342343294 | it has a lot of young-on-old-violence | 23:47 |
| uniqanomaly | more like good way of pouring money from old to young lmao | 23:48 |
| yashgaroth | haven't read it, looks interesting | 23:48 |
| yashgaroth | looks like it's more about young people angry about life extension though | 23:48 |
| yashgaroth | I just want their money now so I can do research | 23:48 |
| yashgaroth | then they die and I get to be the elderly immortal they rebel against | 23:49 |
| Stee| | yashgaroth, where are you looking? | 23:50 |
| yashgaroth | for research? funding myself to do gene therapy, maybe germline genetic engineering after that | 23:51 |
| Stee| | no, I mean, people against it | 23:51 |
| Zach342342343294 | like diybio? | 23:51 |
| Stee| | Zach342342343294, this channel partially spawned diybio, afaik | 23:52 |
| yashgaroth | I'm looking at the summary for this 2030 book | 23:52 |
| Stee| | ah | 23:52 |
| Stee| | yashgaroth, what's your academic background? self trained/degree/professional? | 23:52 |
| Zach342342343294 | its kind of fun but awfully written | 23:52 |
| yashgaroth | classically trained in cell&molecular bio, professional experience in protein biochem | 23:53 |
| yashgaroth | and by that I mean bachelors, maybe phd if I feel like it | 23:53 |
| Stee| | ah | 23:53 |
| Stee| | I'm working on nanoprinting | 23:53 |
| yashgaroth | microfluidics, lab on a chip stuff? | 23:54 |
| Stee| | no | 23:54 |
| Stee| | like literally jet printing for 3d | 23:54 |
| Stee| | on a nanoscale | 23:54 |
| yashgaroth | what sorts of applications are you looking at? | 23:55 |
| Stee| | Eh, a lot of ceramic/pzt/bio/metallic stuff | 23:55 |
| Stee| | also fast turnaround prototyping of radio shit | 23:55 |
| Stee| | I'm done in a couple months | 23:56 |
| Stee| | turning in a preliminary comprehensive model | 23:56 |
| Stee| | and going off to make dolla as an engineer with an MS | 23:56 |
| yashgaroth | excellent | 23:56 |
| Stee| | I also have a secondary income line coming in | 23:57 |
| Stee| | hopefully | 23:57 |
| Stee| | I'm going to try to set up an Angel investment circle of engineers | 23:57 |
| Stee| | so instead of 5 dudes with 10 million each, 50+ dudes throwing their money into a pool | 23:57 |
| Stee| | and recruit people who worked on the techs to figure out what to invest in | 23:57 |
| Stee| | I'm a nerd who sees Tran$humani$m :P | 23:58 |
| Zach342342343294 | don't angel investors have to be accredited? | 23:58 |
| Stee| | Meh, I'll get that if need be. | 23:58 |
| yashgaroth | hell no they don't | 23:58 |
| yashgaroth | there is a lot of money to be made in H+ stuff for sure, though it's a lot more palatable to get funding for non-biological stuff | 23:59 |
| Stee| | And then I want to start the first transhuman issue focused consulting firm. | 23:59 |
| Stee| | dealing with things like OSHA/discrimination lawsuits based on augmentations, etc. | 23:59 |
| --- Log closed Sat Jan 28 00:00:05 2012 | ||
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