| --- Log opened Sat Feb 11 00:00:05 2012 | ||
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| ybit | http://blog.slyon.de/3d-printed-gta04-case/ :: 3d printable openmoko case | 01:52 |
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| ybit | oh, not the case i had in mind | 01:52 |
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| kanzure_ | weird device: | 08:25 |
| kanzure_ | i want something that writes to a roll of paper like an old medical device, | 08:26 |
| kanzure_ | except it specifically graphs the passage of time for you | 08:26 |
| kanzure_ | maybe based on your computer interaction (time "speeds up" when you are working, or "slows down", i'm not sure which way it is) | 08:26 |
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| uniqanomaly_ | flowmeter | 09:19 |
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| kanzure_ | gahh failure after 0305750X/24/12 | 11:27 |
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| kanzure_ | hi yashgaroth | 12:03 |
| yashgaroth | yo | 12:03 |
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| kanzure_ | hrmm time to price out all these reagents | 12:25 |
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| mag1strate | l | 13:12 |
| yashgaroth | mag1strate: http://www.pranavmistry.com/projects/sixthsense/ is the sixthsense that steel was referring to btw | 13:17 |
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| yashgaroth | fff | 13:18 |
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| yashgaroth | mag1strate: http://www.pranavmistry.com/projects/sixthsense/ | 13:24 |
| mag1strate | oh | 13:26 |
| mag1strate | I never knew it was called that | 13:26 |
| mag1strate | so steel is going to try and make one of these? | 13:27 |
| yashgaroth | it shouldn't be too hard | 13:28 |
| mag1strate | I guess but he said he was working on his thesis so he might not have too much time | 13:28 |
| mag1strate | lol | 13:28 |
| yashgaroth | heh and a job lined up, so I don't think it'll be a full time thing yeah | 13:29 |
| yashgaroth | still, it's mostly off-the-shelf components | 13:30 |
| mag1strate | yeah it doesn't seem to bad | 13:31 |
| mag1strate | just needs a little work | 13:31 |
| mag1strate | you working on any projects yashgaroth? | 13:32 |
| yashgaroth | oh sure, DIY gene therapy | 13:32 |
| mag1strate | how so | 13:33 |
| mag1strate | ? | 13:33 |
| yashgaroth | well, once you find a good gene, it's fairly simple to design the plasmid DNA, then you electroshock it into a muscle, and bam you're transgenic | 13:34 |
| mag1strate | really? have you done it yet or are you still trying to find a good gene? | 13:35 |
| yashgaroth | I've found good genes, so now I'm trying to find someone who can make the electroporator; if I'd done it already I'd be a lot more full of myself | 13:35 |
| mag1strate | lol | 13:36 |
| mag1strate | will it be a painful procedure? Have you seen it done before? | 13:36 |
| yashgaroth | it's slightly painful, though since pain = tissue damage and you don't want to destroy the tissue you're transfecting, it shouldn't be too bad | 13:37 |
| yashgaroth | there's a swf video at http://www.ichorms.com/movies/Ichor.swf with one of the commercial ones, skip forward to the section with the person holding the device, they use it on someone about 30sec into that part | 13:39 |
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| mag1strate | ok ill look at it | 13:47 |
| mag1strate | Is this not used or is the FDA holding it back? | 13:51 |
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| kanzure_ | hi alf4lfa | 13:53 |
| alf4lfa | hi | 13:53 |
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| d3nd3 | hello! | 13:53 |
| alf4lfa | hi | 13:53 |
| kanzure_ | yashgaroth: i'm not sure electroporation is a good delivery method for muscle tissue o_o | 13:53 |
| yashgaroth | sure it is | 13:53 |
| kanzure_ | hmmm | 13:54 |
| mag1strate | Have they gone through clinical trials at least? | 13:54 |
| yashgaroth | mag1strate: it's in clinical trials | 13:54 |
| mag1strate | ok | 13:54 |
| kanzure_ | why not something less silly like.. i don't know.. the liposome-based dna delivery stuf | 13:54 |
| kanzure_ | *stuff | 13:54 |
| Mokbortolan_ | huh | 13:54 |
| alf4lfa | anyone has made any progress with immortality here? | 13:54 |
| Mokbortolan_ | yashgaroth: wouldn't that cause immune reactions? | 13:55 |
| kanzure_ | alf4lfa: nope, it's up to you: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/longevity/ | 13:55 |
| yashgaroth | ehhhhh liposomes are toxic and expensive, also electroporation has a higher efficiency in vivo | 13:55 |
| yashgaroth | what would cause immune reactions, the transgene? | 13:55 |
| alf4lfa | me and my lab assistant d3nd3 are trying hard to find a way | 13:55 |
| Mokbortolan_ | wouldn't it change whatever it is immune cells look for? | 13:55 |
| yashgaroth | erm no | 13:55 |
| kanzure_ | alf4lfa: well, start reading those papers | 13:55 |
| Mokbortolan_ | I mean, I'm sure it doesn't, these guys wouldn't have spent so much money if that was a n issue | 13:55 |
| kanzure_ | why do you think there might be an immune issue | 13:56 |
| yashgaroth | if you're adding a foreign gene, it'll get attacked, but I'm focusing on overexpression of native genes for that reason | 13:56 |
| Mokbortolan_ | kanzure_: unfamiliarity with how the immune system works | 13:56 |
| mag1strate | lol | 13:57 |
| mag1strate | Are you going to make a device just like the one in hte video? | 13:59 |
| Mokbortolan_ | yashgaroth: Ok, overexpression I can see better | 13:59 |
| yashgaroth | it'll be similar | 13:59 |
| mag1strate | cool | 13:59 |
| alf4lfa | do u guys think it is hard to change dna or something inorder to become immortal? | 13:59 |
| Mokbortolan_ | why does it need a device like that? | 14:00 |
| kanzure_ | alf4lfa: what does immortal mean | 14:00 |
| kanzure_ | and no we have many forms of dna manipulation technology | 14:00 |
| alf4lfa | so u dont age anymore, removeing the death by old age thing | 14:00 |
| kanzure_ | ok well we only know a little bit about what aging is, | 14:00 |
| yashgaroth | because the electrical field helps the DNA get into cells, which normally it won't in any significant amount | 14:00 |
| kanzure_ | there are some plans to defeat certain effects of aging | 14:00 |
| kanzure_ | but the totality is not yet known. | 14:01 |
| Mokbortolan_ | I think the only people who want to live forever are the young and those with regrets | 14:01 |
| alf4lfa | are you all trying hard to find it out? | 14:01 |
| yashgaroth | oh god, so hard | 14:01 |
| Mokbortolan_ | and the latter just because they're afraid of death | 14:01 |
| kanzure_ | Mokbortolan_: you're not helping | 14:01 |
| Mokbortolan_ | :( | 14:01 |
| alf4lfa | i think the ones who wanna live forever, enjoy living and want more of it naturally | 14:01 |
| mag1strate | isn't their a risk of certain other DNA getting affected by this? | 14:01 |
| alf4lfa | there are 1000 reasons one would seek immortality :P | 14:02 |
| d3nd3 | we have already discussed together in great detail the reasons behind seeking immortality, we are aware of all the reasons and shit | 14:02 |
| kanzure_ | i don't think you need to question reasons | 14:02 |
| kanzure_ | to be in this channel. | 14:02 |
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| Mokbortolan_ | :p | 14:02 |
| alf4lfa | why isnt everybody here trying to figure it out? | 14:02 |
| kanzure_ | alf4lfa: because not everyone in here understands how to go about it | 14:02 |
| kanzure_ | pretty lame reason though! | 14:03 |
| alf4lfa | lol | 14:03 |
| yashgaroth | mag1strate: what do you mean by 'certain other DNA'? | 14:03 |
| alf4lfa | im thinking like, all this exciting stuff which is just waiting to be discoverd, we can discover everything when we have no time limit to life | 14:04 |
| kanzure_ | alf4lfa: please stop trying to convince us, we already agree with you | 14:04 |
| alf4lfa | hmm, do you feel pressure when i try to convince you? | 14:05 |
| kanzure_ | no you're just wasting your time.. why are you trying to convince me of something that i already agree with? | 14:05 |
| alf4lfa | i guess im a funny guy :D | 14:05 |
| kanzure_ | alright.. why not work on longevity projects instead of preaching to the choir :) | 14:05 |
| alf4lfa | so since u agree with me, are you ready to join my club in order to make it? | 14:06 |
| d3nd3 | who says he is trying to convince anyone, to me it seemed like he was stating some information which increases awareness .. | 14:06 |
| yashgaroth | there is no sillier place to spread awareness of immortalism than this IRC channel | 14:06 |
| kanzure_ | your club? | 14:07 |
| kanzure_ | jesus everyone wants to fracture the community | 14:07 |
| kanzure_ | everyone.. | 14:07 |
| alf4lfa | jea me and my lab assistant dende try to figure it out! | 14:07 |
| mag1strate | the cool kids club | 14:07 |
| yashgaroth | join usssss | 14:07 |
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| alf4lfa | we would be 3 if u join us | 14:07 |
| kanzure_ | how about you join *us* instead? | 14:07 |
| kanzure_ | i.e. the rest of the internet | 14:07 |
| yashgaroth | what sort of lab are you at alf? | 14:07 |
| kanzure_ | where there are no boundaries | 14:07 |
| alf4lfa | are you trying to become immortal? | 14:07 |
| kanzure_ | alf4lfa: this is the transhumanism channel | 14:07 |
| kanzure_ | so the answer is duh yes? | 14:08 |
| alf4lfa | ok cool im in | 14:08 |
| alf4lfa | what do we do ? | 14:08 |
| kanzure_ | alf4lfa: well you should start by completely understanding http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/longevity/ | 14:08 |
| alf4lfa | roger that ! | 14:08 |
| kanzure_ | also, you should build a lab | 14:08 |
| alf4lfa | a lab, like i can buy some stuff online for my room? | 14:09 |
| kanzure_ | well ideally you have more than one room.. | 14:09 |
| alf4lfa | i dont think my mom would agree with that... | 14:09 |
| kanzure_ | murder her | 14:09 |
| kanzure_ | why do you live with your mom? | 14:09 |
| yashgaroth | wait how do you have a "lab assistant" without a lab? | 14:09 |
| alf4lfa | its cheaper | 14:09 |
| kanzure_ | hmm | 14:10 |
| kanzure_ | d3nd3: who are you | 14:10 |
| alf4lfa | yashgaroth we live in a world where the creature is beginning to create the creature itself!! many things dont make sense | 14:10 |
| kanzure_ | are you a native speaker of english | 14:10 |
| d3nd3 | i think we should take a road less trodden on, these roads they suggest seem trodden on.... guess its back to wikipedia for us o.O | 14:11 |
| kanzure_ | what? | 14:11 |
| yashgaroth | good god this is some alice in wonderland shit | 14:11 |
| kanzure_ | yashgaroth: i think they don't speak english.. | 14:12 |
| alf4lfa | ok so we going to learn everything about dna now, u guys try to allready find it out meenwhile ok? | 14:12 |
| alf4lfa | when we read with our knowledge, we will kick ass cuz we have super smart brains :) | 14:12 |
| alf4lfa | dont give up guys!! we will get it | 14:12 |
| kanzure_ | alf4lfa: it would be helpful if you speak in your native language (not english) | 14:12 |
| d3nd3 | we need to change our dna, not change dna from orginally ovum and then let it reproduce , thats no good for us, we want to change our dna, and mutate , and survive, do you know any way which we can infect the dna of every cell in our body ? | 14:13 |
| alf4lfa | why? you dont understand my cool internet language slang? | 14:13 |
| kanzure_ | alf4lfa: i think you misunderstand my text, yes. | 14:13 |
| kanzure_ | d3nd3: gene therapies | 14:13 |
| mag1strate | d3nd3: HIV? | 14:13 |
| kanzure_ | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/gene-therapy/ | 14:13 |
| yashgaroth | HIV has a narrow tropism | 14:13 |
| mag1strate | I guess but they say they have been able to program the virus to do different things | 14:14 |
| kanzure_ | They Say | 14:14 |
| kanzure_ | who is they | 14:14 |
| yashgaroth | also you'd need to eliminate your immune system to allow the virus to do its job | 14:14 |
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| mag1strate | scientist | 14:16 |
| mag1strate | s | 14:16 |
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| mag1strate | it was an article I read a month or so ago | 14:16 |
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| d3nd3 | Okay , so if i took a rabbit, and i was testing a virus which could infect all of the rabbits dna, in every cell, so that it activated the fluorescent protein... this is possible, if it gets past the rabbi'ts immune system ... i would be interested to do such a project, i think that changing every dna of every cell of an already living organism is more useful for me who is interested in modifying his oneself | 14:16 |
| yashgaroth | yep definitely not native speaker | 14:17 |
| n_bentha | ownself* | 14:17 |
| yashgaroth | considering a project of that scope is beyond the resources of any government or corporation, two guys in their mom's basement will be somewhat challenged | 14:18 |
| kanzure_ | but you can start with gfp+bacteria projects | 14:18 |
| d3nd3 | that opinion is not important | 14:18 |
| d3nd3 | yash | 14:18 |
| kanzure_ | you need to start with "hello world" and make your way up | 14:18 |
| mag1strate | bacteria is probably the best option | 14:18 |
| kanzure_ | there are many tools and skills that you will acquire with a bacteria+fluorescence project. | 14:19 |
| n_bentha | why is everyone doing gfp? | 14:19 |
| n_bentha | WHAT ABOUT CFP?!?! | 14:19 |
| yashgaroth | RFP 4 lyfe | 14:19 |
| d3nd3 | who wants to become part of my and alfalfa team , on skype we study together and grow and share ideas and work on same project | 14:19 |
| n_bentha | i dare you to tattoo that on your chest | 14:19 |
| d3nd3 | its a close nit, closer than this | 14:19 |
| alf4lfa | ok i will write hello world on the moon useing the new creature i evolve with my synthetic dna | 14:19 |
| n_bentha | alf4lfa what is your project? | 14:20 |
| kanzure_ | d3nd3: why not use ##hplusroadmap instead of skype? | 14:20 |
| d3nd3 | we talk | 14:20 |
| kanzure_ | we can schedule skype calls, but this is more public | 14:20 |
| d3nd3 | we read to each other | 14:20 |
| d3nd3 | we keep each other motivated | 14:20 |
| n_bentha | sorry alfalfa, was meant to say d3nd3 | 14:21 |
| n_bentha | what is your prokect d3nd3? | 14:21 |
| d3nd3 | i enter this topic from computer backgruond | 14:21 |
| d3nd3 | my imagination is wild | 14:21 |
| d3nd3 | i want to have wings so that i can fly | 14:21 |
| n_bentha | ... | 14:21 |
| kanzure_ | have you considered jetpacks | 14:21 |
| mag1strate | lol | 14:22 |
| n_bentha | go to flight school | 14:22 |
| d3nd3 | hacking is about fun for me | 14:22 |
| d3nd3 | and imagination is not far fetched | 14:22 |
| d3nd3 | when it comes to this field | 14:22 |
| d3nd3 | since already organisms are flying | 14:22 |
| kanzure_ | humans have been flying for more than 100 years | 14:23 |
| d3nd3 | thats not flying | 14:23 |
| d3nd3 | look at a bird | 14:23 |
| d3nd3 | thats flying | 14:23 |
| d3nd3 | we have downloaded the human source code | 14:24 |
| d3nd3 | whats our next step | 14:24 |
| d3nd3 | what programmer is good to use | 14:24 |
| d3nd3 | to view the code | 14:24 |
| d3nd3 | program* | 14:24 |
| mag1strate | what file format? | 14:24 |
| kanzure_ | fasta? | 14:25 |
| d3nd3 | sec | 14:25 |
| d3nd3 | i tell you | 14:25 |
| kanzure_ | it depends on what you want to do | 14:25 |
| kanzure_ | do you want to parse it? | 14:25 |
| d3nd3 | 1.2 GB | 14:25 |
| d3nd3 | Homo_sapiens.0.dat | 14:26 |
| d3nd3 | its Craing Ventur | 14:26 |
| d3nd3 | w.e his name | 14:26 |
| d3nd3 | its his code -.- | 14:26 |
| kanzure_ | j. craig venter | 14:26 |
| yashgaroth | you might be better off using http://genome.ucsc.edu/cgi-bin/hgGateway to start off with | 14:26 |
| kanzure_ | ok, what part of the data do you want to view? | 14:26 |
| d3nd3 | i was thinking to start off with something more simpler yes | 14:27 |
| kanzure_ | yashgaroth: some douchebags have been making software to "visualize" genomes | 14:27 |
| kanzure_ | yashgaroth: but it really gives the wrong message.. | 14:27 |
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| d3nd3 | but the human genome is the most important thing here so i downloaded it | 14:27 |
| kanzure_ | yashgaroth: you can picture pathways and regulatory networks.. but that's not what people are asking for when they say 'visualize' | 14:27 |
| kanzure_ | d3nd3: well, start learning about the bioinformatics databases | 14:27 |
| kanzure_ | like kebb, metacyc, ncbi's shit, etc. | 14:27 |
| d3nd3 | i value this information you give me, bioinformatics diotase | 14:28 |
| d3nd3 | dtabase | 14:28 |
| d3nd3 | i presume you mean some online registry of standardized parts? | 14:28 |
| kanzure_ | no | 14:28 |
| kanzure_ | biobricks don't really work like standardized parts | 14:28 |
| alf4lfa | i think biohacking is like minecraft, u have biobricks and u create creatures with it | 14:29 |
| kanzure_ | re: flight: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15rsIFcYYc8#t=300 | 14:29 |
| kanzure_ | alf4lfa: nope.. doesn't work like that | 14:29 |
| d3nd3 | kanzure our dedicated level is extremely high | 14:30 |
| d3nd3 | just letting you know | 14:30 |
| d3nd3 | we already gave up our lives | 14:30 |
| d3nd3 | to endeveaour this | 14:30 |
| d3nd3 | i dont gloat | 14:30 |
| d3nd3 | just seeing if u can appreciate | 14:30 |
| * n_bentha doesn't like the gateway system | 14:30 | |
| kanzure_ | we will see. | 14:30 |
| kanzure_ | if you are willing, i have many things for you to do | 14:30 |
| kanzure_ | and many things for you to learn. | 14:30 |
| alf4lfa | cool i am very intrested! | 14:31 |
| n_bentha | d3nd3, also i want to say that flying a fighter jet is very much like flying | 14:31 |
| alf4lfa | kanzure are you allways here in this channel? or u have skype? | 14:31 |
| kanzure_ | alf4lfa: always in here | 14:31 |
| alf4lfa | ok | 14:31 |
| n_bentha | you experience so many g's and you have tyo use all your senses and the plane become an extension of your body | 14:32 |
| kanzure_ | i also have skype.. but ##hplusroadmap always has people | 14:32 |
| d3nd3 | yes so the idea of wings is probably un-necesary | 14:32 |
| d3nd3 | but i don't want to rely upon diesel, unless ofc i am synthesizing diesel ;) | 14:32 |
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| d3nd3 | i would like to fly, because its a status | 14:33 |
| n_bentha | hehe | 14:33 |
| d3nd3 | a status , and its on my body all the time | 14:33 |
| d3nd3 | and i bencome a new creatrure | 14:33 |
| kanzure_ | jetpacks. | 14:33 |
| d3nd3 | with new ability | 14:33 |
| d3nd3 | i like ethe idea of wings, i like dragons | 14:33 |
| n_bentha | but the weight ratio is gonna kill u | 14:33 |
| d3nd3 | what have you for me to do then ? | 14:34 |
| d3nd3 | if you didn't have things for me to | 14:34 |
| d3nd3 | i would seek my own things to do | 14:35 |
| d3nd3 | what do you think its a good thing to do ? | 14:35 |
| kanzure_ | you should learn basic skills in molecular biology | 14:35 |
| kanzure_ | and diybio | 14:35 |
| d3nd3 | i have this thing where i believe that i have already most skills | 14:35 |
| d3nd3 | i can remove this belief | 14:35 |
| kanzure_ | d3nd3: http://protocol-online.org/ | 14:36 |
| kanzure_ | you know how to do most of these? | 14:36 |
| n_bentha | d3nd3, i'm just saying that you won't be able to give yourself wings that owuld allow you to fly | 14:36 |
| d3nd3 | i already discovered i can do anything bentha, since nature already did anything, so ... really you are just saying that because you know the limit of your own self, but maybe my limit is more than yours or what you believe to be your limit, just saying. | 14:37 |
| n_bentha | because you'll have to design the system around flying--you can't modify a tank to fly | 14:37 |
| kanzure_ | d3nd3: no i mean... muscle training (how to execute the steps) | 14:37 |
| d3nd3 | i'm sorry guys, i know you are know better than me | 14:37 |
| d3nd3 | but i don't limit my possibilities so early | 14:38 |
| n_bentha | you can't just add wings and then expect to fly. the wings require a higher o2 efficiency, a lighter body, etc | 14:38 |
| d3nd3 | in a field so diverse | 14:38 |
| kanzure_ | d3nd3: that is not what we are saying | 14:38 |
| n_bentha | i think flying is a great dream and idea, but it's just not practical. you wouldn't be able to fly, yourself. i'm sure you could create a flying rabbit, however. | 14:38 |
| kanzure_ | n_bentha: he probably wants to add it to his blood supply or something.. this is a common fantasy | 14:38 |
| n_bentha | blood supply? | 14:39 |
| kanzure_ | n_bentha: it is theoretically possible, but nobody knows how to do it | 14:39 |
| kanzure_ | yes.. some people want to grow new organs, wings and shit | 14:39 |
| kanzure_ | i don't know. | 14:39 |
| n_bentha | but u won't be able to fly with them because of the weight ratio's :( | 14:39 |
| n_bentha | sigh | 14:39 |
| d3nd3 | how do you know how big the wings are ? | 14:39 |
| n_bentha | just don't want someone to waste their time on something liek that | 14:39 |
| kanzure_ | n_bentha: let him, it's ok | 14:39 |
| n_bentha | not the weight ratio of the wings to the body, but the ratio of wieght to thrust | 14:40 |
| n_bentha | ok kanzure_, i give up | 14:40 |
| yashgaroth | bentha you just gotta believe in yourself | 14:40 |
| kanzure_ | n_bentha: i agree with you, though | 14:40 |
| d3nd3 | the bigger the wing, the bigger the surface area, the bigger the surface area, the heavier the object it can lift | 14:40 |
| kanzure_ | n_bentha: but he's already having communication issues in here | 14:40 |
| kanzure_ | n_bentha: you're saying some very specific thigs that he won't understand | 14:40 |
| n_bentha | kk | 14:40 |
| d3nd3 | its ok bentha, you are correct | 14:41 |
| kanzure_ | things.. not thigs | 14:41 |
| d3nd3 | but if your mind had more possibilities, then you would have an alternative | 14:41 |
| d3nd3 | yes? | 14:41 |
| kanzure_ | jetpacks. | 14:41 |
| kanzure_ | why limit yourself to a bird's wing? | 14:41 |
| d3nd3 | they are beautiful, they don't blow up | 14:41 |
| alf4lfa | lolololol | 14:42 |
| kanzure_ | they are not beautiful | 14:42 |
| d3nd3 | because you guys will be dependant upon technology, whereas me biology ? | 14:42 |
| n_bentha | le sigh | 14:42 |
| kanzure_ | biology is techology | 14:43 |
| d3nd3 | technology doesn't grow in your child | 14:43 |
| kanzure_ | biology is technology | 14:43 |
| d3nd3 | biology does | 14:43 |
| yashgaroth | some things are easier to do with mechanical technology than biology, though | 14:43 |
| kanzure_ | d3nd3: your child is technology | 14:43 |
| kanzure_ | cells are machines | 14:43 |
| d3nd3 | i am aware | 14:43 |
| kanzure_ | mechanical tech is sometimes more efficient | 14:43 |
| alf4lfa | biological machines? | 14:43 |
| kanzure_ | right now, nobody knows how to edit a genome/embryo to add wings | 14:43 |
| d3nd3 | yet there is still a difference between techonlogical machinery and biological machinery | 14:43 |
| kanzure_ | however! some lab in nyc deleted wings from a chicken embryo | 14:44 |
| n_bentha | who says an engine isn't biological?! some have carbon and metal and use hydrocarbons for energy! | 14:44 |
| n_bentha | sorry, was feeling ridiculous | 14:44 |
| d3nd3 | if it consists of cells, its biological, and if it has dna, its biological | 14:44 |
| d3nd3 | if it doesn't, then its non-biological | 14:44 |
| * n_bentha does a silly walk w/ a silly hat | 14:44 | |
| d3nd3 | lol | 14:44 |
| kanzure_ | d3nd3: if diesel is a dependency, then food is also a dependency | 14:45 |
| n_bentha | http://image.spreadshirt.net/image-server/image/composition/10775019/view/1/producttypecolor/1/type/png/width/190/height/190/john-cleese-plain-silly-walk-men-s-shirt_design.png | 14:45 |
| d3nd3 | yes | 14:46 |
| d3nd3 | http://protocol-online.org/ | 14:47 |
| d3nd3 | i never thought i had to know these things, if iam a coder | 14:47 |
| d3nd3 | i send my code to company | 14:47 |
| d3nd3 | and its done | 14:47 |
| kanzure_ | nope.. biology is very complex | 14:47 |
| d3nd3 | ok my code is requiring biological understanding | 14:47 |
| kanzure_ | yes | 14:47 |
| kanzure_ | you need to culture your cells | 14:47 |
| kanzure_ | you need to transform them, transfect them, select them, etc. | 14:47 |
| d3nd3 | i would need to do that, but how ever , if i reverse engineered the dna code well enough, i wouldn't need 10% of that biological knowledge | 14:48 |
| kanzure_ | yashgaroth: i don't see a pdf link on http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16162367 | 14:48 |
| kanzure_ | d3nd3: you should learn the current state of the art of bioinformatics. | 14:48 |
| d3nd3 | i want to do some reverse engineering | 14:48 |
| kanzure_ | do you know any bioinformatics? | 14:48 |
| kanzure_ | ok. reverse engineering of dna means trial/error testing. | 14:49 |
| d3nd3 | no | 14:49 |
| d3nd3 | i want to do it my way | 14:49 |
| kanzure_ | what is your way | 14:49 |
| d3nd3 | to look at the dna and compare it to other creatures | 14:49 |
| d3nd3 | look for similarities | 14:49 |
| d3nd3 | look for patterns | 14:49 |
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| kanzure_ | ok. this is called homology. | 14:49 |
| yashgaroth | kanzure: that's cuz elsevier are dicks, I'll see if I can find the direct link | 14:49 |
| kanzure_ | d3nd3: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homology_(biology) | 14:49 |
| kanzure_ | look at this section: | 14:50 |
| kanzure_ | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homology_(biology)#Sequence_Homology | 14:50 |
| archels | kanzure_: I'm taking neurogenetics this semester. ^_^ | 14:50 |
| kanzure_ | archels: whaat i thought you wrote your thesis and you're done? | 14:50 |
| n_bentha | just for fun then archels? | 14:51 |
| kanzure_ | oh i guess that's possible | 14:52 |
| d3nd3 | name of program to view the dna , to help me find patterns inside the dna of a Human, find start of genes and chromosome numbers | 14:52 |
| d3nd3 | do you know any program to help me view that? the file type is .dat | 14:52 |
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| archels | kanzure_: This is my second Master's. Remember our chat about finite element modelling? That's my thesis topic. | 14:52 |
| kanzure_ | d3nd3: the file type is not .dat.. it is probably fasta or fafta or something | 14:52 |
| kanzure_ | d3nd3: you will need to identify genes on your own | 14:53 |
| kanzure_ | use something like bioperl, bioruby or biopython | 14:53 |
| archels | But it is just for fun, I don't need to take it. | 14:53 |
| kanzure_ | archels: cool. | 14:53 |
| d3nd3 | i did this sudo apt-get install ensemble | 14:54 |
| kanzure_ | sudo apt-get install biopython | 14:54 |
| kanzure_ | search for promoter sequences.. i don't know what to tell you | 14:54 |
| kanzure_ | i suggest you start with the genes from ncbi | 14:55 |
| kanzure_ | and look at the single nucleotide polymorphisms | 14:55 |
| mag1strate | you use ubuntu? | 14:55 |
| d3nd3 | yes | 14:56 |
| mag1strate | ok | 14:56 |
| mag1strate | just wondering | 14:56 |
| d3nd3 | i tried crunchbang and Haiku | 14:57 |
| mag1strate | ever tried fedora? | 14:57 |
| d3nd3 | now back to ubuntu, because it has most followers ;) | 14:57 |
| d3nd3 | no | 14:57 |
| n_bentha | d3nd3: DNAMAN | 14:57 |
| mag1strate | I really like fedora | 14:57 |
| n_bentha | and also try ncbi | 14:57 |
| n_bentha | but dnaman is a good program for looking at dna, doing digestions, etc | 14:58 |
| mag1strate | is that a distro? | 14:58 |
| kanzure_ | http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/journal/09553886 | 14:58 |
| sylph_mako | If a transhumanist were talking about some kind of entity called a SIM what would they be referring to? | 14:58 |
| kanzure_ | erm | 14:58 |
| kanzure_ | ERROR: Page did not load (status=fail): http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/journal/09553886 | 14:58 |
| kanzure_ | i'm p. sure that error is wrong | 14:59 |
| kanzure_ | sylph_mako: simulated intestinal maggots | 14:59 |
| sylph_mako | I suppose one must be thorough. | 14:59 |
| mag1strate | what does that even mean? | 14:59 |
| kanzure_ | indeed | 14:59 |
| mag1strate | oh | 15:00 |
| sylph_mako | entity as in being. | 15:00 |
| mag1strate | and that being is a simulated intestinal maggot? | 15:00 |
| kanzure_ | "writing bibtex to sciencedirectjournals////index.bib" | 15:01 |
| kanzure_ | gahh why is this breaking | 15:01 |
| sylph_mako | fuck it I'll just look it up. And here I thought asking here would cost less utility. | 15:02 |
| kanzure_ | sorry, i'm not familiar with it | 15:02 |
| kanzure_ | it probably means simulated | 15:02 |
| sylph_mako | substrate-independent minds. lol. | 15:02 |
| sylph_mako | So presumably not anything derived from humans. | 15:03 |
| mag1strate | lol | 15:03 |
| n_bentha | http://www.lynnon.com/ | 15:04 |
| n_bentha | "Our product, DNAMAN software package, provides an effective toolkit for sequence analysis and data mining." | 15:04 |
| mag1strate | i tried looking it up but all I got was transhumanism conspiracies with sim cards | 15:04 |
| n_bentha | for windows & mac | 15:04 |
| d3nd3 | what terminal command-line can i type on my .0.data 1.2gb file | 15:05 |
| d3nd3 | i installed those packages | 15:05 |
| d3nd3 | dunno which binary to call | 15:05 |
| Mokbortolan_ | Sigularity Instant Mashedpotatoes | 15:05 |
| kanzure_ | sylph_mako: oh that's probably randal koene | 15:05 |
| kanzure_ | yashgaroth: if you can find me a working link to the pdf on sciencedirect, i'll try to grab your paper | 15:06 |
| mag1strate | d3nd3: What are you trying to do? | 15:06 |
| d3nd3 | mag1strate: study the dna of humans, its in this file i have 1.2gb | 15:06 |
| mag1strate | d3nd3: by that I mean what command are you trying to use? | 15:06 |
| d3nd3 | mag1strate: i do not know, perhaps biopython???? | 15:07 |
| kanzure_ | 4.3M http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/sciencedirect/microelectronics.journal.txt | 15:07 |
| kanzure_ | oh god character encoding errors | 15:08 |
| kanzure_ | OH GOD | 15:08 |
| kanzure_ | check out "Experimental study and analysis of corner compensation structures for CMOS compatible bulk micromachining using" | 15:08 |
| kanzure_ | how do i fix this | 15:08 |
| mag1strate | d3nd3: to analyze the data? | 15:08 |
| kanzure_ | mag1strate: he wants to "find genes" | 15:09 |
| d3nd3 | mag1strate: my friend 4lfalfa has opened it with notepad , for now i will look at his screen via skype screen-sharing ... but yes, to analyze it, to read it for the first time, get a feel of it, and try to figure out some things, which the human eye is capable | 15:09 |
| d3nd3 | mag1strate: but it would be nice if i could find some information on the human genome generally? like maybe someon else's intuitive findings? maybe labels ? | 15:10 |
| d3nd3 | i see little sense me looking at stuff which has already been discovered its purpose | 15:10 |
| mag1strate | d3nd3: ok ill see what I can find | 15:10 |
| kanzure_ | the labels you want are called snps | 15:10 |
| kanzure_ | or genes. | 15:11 |
| kanzure_ | here is the gene for human dna polymerase | 15:11 |
| kanzure_ | http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/protein/2257773?report=fasta | 15:11 |
| mag1strate | d3nd3: Here is some snps data http://snp.cshl.org/ | 15:12 |
| kanzure_ | oops i meant to link to nuccore | 15:12 |
| kanzure_ | http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/nuccore/2257772 | 15:12 |
| kanzure_ | tgtaattcag | 15:12 |
| kanzure_ | aaaaaatcag gcagatggcg catgctaact gatttaagag ccgttaatgc | 15:12 |
| kanzure_ | but this can be anywhere in your file, it might be used elsewhere etc. | 15:12 |
| d3nd3 | thank you xxxxxxxxxxxxxx | 15:12 |
| alf4lfa | LOCUS 10 1000000 bp DNA HTG 22-NOV-2011 DEFINITION Homo sapiens chromosome 10 GRCh37 partial sequence 1000001..2000000 reannotated via EnsEMBL ACCESSION chromosome:GRCh37:10:1000001:2000000:1 VERSION chromosome:GRCh37:10:1000001:2000000:1 KEYWORDS . SOURCE human ORGANISM Homo sapiens Eukaryota; Metazoa; Eumetazoa; Bilateria; Coelomata; Deuterostomia; Chordata; Craniata; | 15:14 |
| d3nd3 | is this fasta ? | 15:14 |
| kanzure_ | no | 15:14 |
| kanzure_ | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FASTA_format | 15:14 |
| alf4lfa | 410701 AAGCCTGTAA TCTCAGCACT TTGGGTGGCC GAGGCGGGTG GATCAAGGGG TCAGGAGATC | 15:15 |
| alf4lfa | is this fasta? | 15:15 |
| d3nd3 | is this fasta? | 15:15 |
| d3nd3 | no, this is fasta | 15:16 |
| d3nd3 | >gi|5524211|gb|AAD44166.1| cytochrome b [Elephas maximus maximus] LCLYTHIGRNIYYGSYLYSETWNTGIMLLLITMATAFMGYVLPWGQMSFWGATVITNLFSAIPYIGTNLV EWIWGGFSVDKATLNRFFAFHFILPFTMVALAGVHLTFLHETGSNNPLGLTSDSDKIPFHPYYTIKDFLG LLILILLLLLLALLSPDMLGDPDNHMPADPLNTPLHIKPEWYFLFAYAILRSVPNKLGGVLALFLSIVIL GLMPFLHTSKHRSMMLRPLSQALFWTLTMDLLTLTWIGSQPVEYPYTIIGQMASILYFSIILAFLPIAGX IENY | 15:16 |
| d3nd3 | our file has TCGA | 15:18 |
| d3nd3 | this is which format than ? | 15:18 |
| d3nd3 | is there a program which reads that nicely ? | 15:18 |
| d3nd3 | except RNA polymerase:D# | 15:18 |
| alf4lfa | lool | 15:19 |
| kanzure_ | what do you mean "reads icely" | 15:19 |
| kanzure_ | converts to amino acid sequences? | 15:19 |
| mag1strate | more than likely | 15:20 |
| d3nd3 | recognizes known gene acceptor's, introns, branches and donors , aswell as exons | 15:22 |
| n_bentha | what's a gene acceptor? | 15:22 |
| yashgaroth | you mean splice donor and acceptor sites? | 15:23 |
| d3nd3 | yes | 15:23 |
| d3nd3 | i want to know which IDE i can find useful IDE, which has tools, with the most up to date comments, which can open many projects for different species, all wih the up to date information linked to that specific species | 15:24 |
| kanzure_ | sounds vague | 15:25 |
| n_bentha | ncbi + dnaman = enough | 15:25 |
| yashgaroth | what | 15:25 |
| d3nd3 | alf4lfa, download ncbi and dnaman | 15:25 |
| alf4lfa | ok | 15:25 |
| d3nd3 | and where do i find my "project files" my "species data" .. which is compatible with dnaman and ncbi ? which file type does that want? fasta ? | 15:25 |
| n_bentha | ncbi is a website, u nub | 15:27 |
| d3nd3 | haha | 15:27 |
| kanzure_ | what's wrong with downloading ncbi? | 15:27 |
| kanzure_ | you can download ncbi | 15:27 |
| n_bentha | really? | 15:27 |
| kanzure_ | umm yes | 15:27 |
| kanzure_ | they provide a very nice ftp service | 15:27 |
| d3nd3 | yipee, i learnt a new word, ncbi | 15:27 |
| d3nd3 | ncbi is similar to a msdn for win32 programmers ? | 15:28 |
| d3nd3 | Nop! ofc Nop ! this is new stuff and everything is different ! | 15:28 |
| d3nd3 | o.O | 15:28 |
| alf4lfa | how can you get dnaman for free? | 15:28 |
| kanzure_ | biology is not like programming.. | 15:29 |
| d3nd3 | it might be | 15:29 |
| kanzure_ | i know it's nice to imagine that it may one day be like it, but it's not | 15:29 |
| kanzure_ | we know it's not for a *fact* | 15:29 |
| d3nd3 | it doesn't matter really, because programming is not also like programming | 15:29 |
| d3nd3 | my mind is not like reality | 15:29 |
| kanzure_ | wtf? | 15:29 |
| d3nd3 | it never was | 15:29 |
| d3nd3 | never will be | 15:29 |
| kanzure_ | yes that's correct, your mind does not map to reality | 15:30 |
| yashgaroth | :V | 15:30 |
| d3nd3 | yea so now thats why i use simiphores | 15:30 |
| kanzure_ | my point is, don't think of this as programming but rather selecting which genes | 15:30 |
| d3nd3 | i also create new words lol | 15:30 |
| kanzure_ | or doing rational protein design | 15:30 |
| kanzure_ | but rational protein design is also pretty broken | 15:30 |
| d3nd3 | i don't think of it as anything, but i already have a progrmaming model | 15:30 |
| d3nd3 | i will use that | 15:30 |
| d3nd3 | for now | 15:30 |
| kanzure_ | but it doesn't work.. | 15:30 |
| kanzure_ | "msdn" is microsoft, not ncbi | 15:30 |
| d3nd3 | well you don't know how precise i am being with my simiphores | 15:31 |
| d3nd3 | think of it as a template | 15:31 |
| d3nd3 | not a copy | 15:31 |
| kanzure_ | yashgaroth: what sucks is that people behind biobricks etc. can easily sell shit as if it was as easy as programming | 15:31 |
| yashgaroth | you mean, sell the idea to the public? | 15:32 |
| kanzure_ | yes | 15:32 |
| d3nd3 | programming is not easy | 15:32 |
| d3nd3 | only if you use high level language | 15:32 |
| d3nd3 | some things you say are not so accurate | 15:32 |
| kanzure_ | asm is very easy | 15:32 |
| d3nd3 | and so is machine code | 15:33 |
| kanzure_ | in comparison to protein engineering. | 15:33 |
| d3nd3 | and so is binary | 15:33 |
| alf4lfa | tbh there exist no "easy" or "hard".. "hard" things just require bit more time | 15:33 |
| d3nd3 | Agreed | 15:33 |
| kanzure_ | yashgaroth: like, "ok i have this 3941`9041 gigabyte file how do i find genes" and all this stuff | 15:33 |
| d3nd3 | how do you put people's names down like that ? do you type them each time or are you using a special function to do so ? | 15:34 |
| kanzure_ | i type very quickly but i use tab completion | 15:34 |
| d3nd3 | kanzure_: ok | 15:34 |
| d3nd3 | kanzure_: thanks | 15:34 |
| yashgaroth | man, finding genes with just the raw genome sequence is a waste of time for an organism that's already been mapped | 15:34 |
| n_bentha | alf4lfahow can you get dnaman for free?: just go to the website and go to download. u enter ur email and they send u a d/l link w/ p-word. then u can just use it as a demo version | 15:34 |
| kanzure_ | yashgaroth: yes | 15:34 |
| alf4lfa | n_bentha: ok | 15:35 |
| mag1strate | *Cough* TPB *Cough* | 15:35 |
| kanzure_ | just spell it out | 15:35 |
| kanzure_ | thepiratebay | 15:35 |
| d3nd3 | alfalfa | 15:35 |
| d3nd3 | lets use warez-bb | 15:35 |
| d3nd3 | im sure its there | 15:35 |
| mag1strate | *cough* The Pirate Bay *Cough* | 15:35 |
| n_bentha | " No hits." | 15:36 |
| d3nd3 | the question , teh very important question is : when will we be ready, prepared and brave enough, to insert a "virus" into our own cells , which could potentially kill us in the process | 15:36 |
| n_bentha | you first | 15:37 |
| kanzure_ | d3nd3: they have already done this | 15:37 |
| kanzure_ | in monkeys as well as humans | 15:37 |
| n_bentha | and that's not a question, but a run-on sentence | 15:37 |
| kanzure_ | d3nd3: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/gene-therapy/ | 15:38 |
| d3nd3 | there will come a time in my life, when i will have to make that decision, and have the courage and faith in my life's study to insert it | 15:39 |
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| d3nd3 | kanzure_: papers are the answer to all ? | 15:40 |
| d3nd3 | kanzure_: what ca possibly be in those papers?# | 15:40 |
| kanzure_ | read them | 15:40 |
| kanzure_ | you are misinformed, there are already people who have been injected with retroviral gene therapies | 15:40 |
| kanzure_ | iand monkeys. | 15:40 |
| kanzure_ | you said there were none.. | 15:40 |
| kanzure_ | and lentiviral and other-viral (not just retroviral of course) | 15:41 |
| yashgaroth | also adeno-associated | 15:41 |
| * kanzure_ nods | 15:41 | |
| kanzure_ | i really shouldn't say retroviruses so often | 15:41 |
| mag1strate | Kanzure is right | 15:41 |
| kanzure_ | since those are less interesting. | 15:41 |
| d3nd3 | kanzure_: have you been a biologist from a young age? | 15:41 |
| d3nd3 | kanzure_: are you even a biologist? | 15:41 |
| kanzure_ | i don't know how to answer these questions | 15:42 |
| d3nd3 | kanzure_: the answers are false then, ignore them | 15:42 |
| kanzure_ | what? | 15:42 |
| d3nd3 | kanzure_: did you go to education system to learn specific biology courses? | 15:42 |
| kanzure_ | no i dropped out of college | 15:42 |
| mag1strate | why? | 15:42 |
| kanzure_ | because fuck it, that's why? | 15:43 |
| mag1strate | just wondering | 15:43 |
| kanzure_ | i have better things to be doing | 15:43 |
| yashgaroth | I'm a biologist if you're looking for one | 15:43 |
| kanzure_ | like research and projects | 15:43 |
| mag1strate | ok | 15:43 |
| kanzure_ | college is not conducive to this | 15:43 |
| mag1strate | it helps though | 15:43 |
| kanzure_ | *shrug* not enough ;) | 15:43 |
| mag1strate | lol | 15:43 |
| d3nd3 | i believe that knowledge is knowledge, there is no such thing as particular fields, well there is, but i am a person who like sknowledge from all areas, and merge into one , i don't like to tag specific knowledge as being only useful to one part of study o.O | 15:44 |
| d3nd3 | i am greedy ;) i want all knowledge | 15:44 |
| kanzure_ | you don't seem to have much biology knowledge | 15:45 |
| d3nd3 | its just words | 15:45 |
| kanzure_ | um.. | 15:45 |
| d3nd3 | and yes i am a few days old in biology | 15:45 |
| kanzure_ | are you high? | 15:45 |
| d3nd3 | like | 15:45 |
| d3nd3 | 3 days old | 15:45 |
| d3nd3 | nice to meet you | 15:45 |
| d3nd3 | i am a toddler | 15:45 |
| d3nd3 | lol | 15:45 |
| mag1strate | wtf just happened | 15:45 |
| kanzure_ | yashgaroth: but really, i need the pdf link for that paper you want | 15:46 |
| yashgaroth | blergh I can't find it anywhere, it's all paywalled | 15:46 |
| d3nd3 | kanzure_: what is your goal in life | 15:46 |
| d3nd3 | kanzure_: can you carry me and alf4lfa to your current knowledge level closer? | 15:48 |
| kanzure_ | world domination | 15:48 |
| kanzure_ | bbl. need to go | 15:48 |
| d3nd3 | kanzure_: cu | 15:48 |
| alf4lfa | kanzure_: cu | 15:48 |
| mag1strate | kanzure: cya | 15:49 |
| d3nd3 | can anyone further explain what is a sense sequence and antisense, wikipedia fails to give me "sense" .. notice the pun | 16:07 |
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| yashgaroth | sense DNA strands have the same sequence as the transcribed mRNA, antisense strands are complementary to them | 16:13 |
| d3nd3 | mRNA was complentary to the DNA ? | 16:15 |
| d3nd3 | so how can it have the same sequence? | 16:15 |
| d3nd3 | also it has U , instead of T ? | 16:15 |
| yashgaroth | the mRNA for a protein will be complementary to the antisense strand, and yes RNA has U instead of T | 16:15 |
| d3nd3 | where are these antisense strands and strands existing ? | 16:16 |
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| yashgaroth | in the genome, on a chromosome | 16:16 |
| delinquentme | https://bitbucket.org/wwmm/oscar4/wiki/Examples << what do I have to wrap java code in to get it to run | 16:17 |
| delinquentme | ? | 16:17 |
| d3nd3 | the double helix has 2 long polymers ( strands ) , you can name those 2 as sense and anti-sense ? | 16:17 |
| delinquentme | this example doesnt run | 16:17 |
| yashgaroth | you only define them as sense/anti-sense if one of them codes for an mRNA, but yes | 16:18 |
| d3nd3 | "codes for an mRNA" | 16:18 |
| d3nd3 | can re-word that for simpletons | 16:19 |
| yashgaroth | if the strand is a place where RNA polymerase will attach and generate mRNA | 16:19 |
| d3nd3 | yashgaroth: or clarify | 16:19 |
| d3nd3 | ahhh | 16:20 |
| d3nd3 | okay | 16:20 |
| d3nd3 | there is a part of the strand which is generating mRNA | 16:20 |
| d3nd3 | and that part is named sense and anti-sense | 16:20 |
| yashgaroth | yes | 16:21 |
| d3nd3 | so the mRNA is created from the anti-sense strand ? | 16:21 |
| d3nd3 | erm, and teh sense strand , has no purpose ? | 16:21 |
| d3nd3 | knwon* | 16:21 |
| d3nd3 | *known* | 16:21 |
| yashgaroth | erm, yes, the mRNA is created from the anti-sense | 16:22 |
| yashgaroth | "purpose" depends on how you look at it | 16:22 |
| d3nd3 | the mRNA is complenary of the anti-sense | 16:22 |
| d3nd3 | but also the sense is complentary of the anti-sense | 16:22 |
| d3nd3 | so the sense = the mRNA ? | 16:22 |
| yashgaroth | the sense has the same sequence as the mRNA, yes | 16:22 |
| d3nd3 | why don't they just use the sense then instead of complement the anti-sense ? | 16:23 |
| yashgaroth | "they" is the RNA polymerase? | 16:23 |
| d3nd3 | haha | 16:23 |
| d3nd3 | =D | 16:23 |
| d3nd3 | well nature is evolved to efficiency ;P | 16:23 |
| d3nd3 | thought it would know the best ^^ | 16:24 |
| d3nd3 | efficient | 16:24 |
| d3nd3 | lol | 16:24 |
| d3nd3 | they can't copy strands, can only complement them to create new | 16:24 |
| yashgaroth | it...what? | 16:24 |
| d3nd3 | perhaps thats it | 16:24 |
| yashgaroth | yes^ | 16:24 |
| yashgaroth | that's why | 16:24 |
| d3nd3 | thanks for the yes | 16:24 |
| d3nd3 | i was afraid | 16:24 |
| d3nd3 | i would be wrong | 16:24 |
| d3nd3 | three times in a row | 16:24 |
| d3nd3 | okay thanks now we move on | 16:25 |
| d3nd3 | to next chapter of wikipedia | 16:25 |
| d3nd3 | yashgaroth: bbl | 16:25 |
| d3nd3 | yashgaroth: does most information(code) purpose to create mRNA ? and only small amounts for other tasks ? | 16:26 |
| d3nd3 | mm sry for confusing strange questions | 16:26 |
| yashgaroth | actually only a small amount of the genome gets translated into RNA | 16:26 |
| d3nd3 | Both sense and antisense sequences can exist on different parts of the same strand of DNA (i.e. both strands contain both sense and antisense sequences) | 16:28 |
| d3nd3 | this is quote from wikipedia, i dont' know why the anti-sense is on the same strand :: the only explanation to sense and anti-sense was that they were on seperate strands because i knew the seperate strands were complements of each other .. but with the anti-sense and sense sequence on teh same strand, i am confused to think that they are complements of each other, and living on the same strand | 16:28 |
| alf4lfa | ur too fast!! | 16:29 |
| alf4lfa | lol | 16:29 |
| yashgaroth | yeah that's a confusing question | 16:30 |
| d3nd3 | yashgaroth: my belief was that there were 2 opposites strands, they had the same genetic code, and the reason there was 2 of them was for dna replication, for when a cell divides from one cell, into two. It puts a dna strand into each new cell , and then that new cell copies ( complements ) that dna strand to create a second dna strand. Thats how i believed in the creation and existence of complementing strands. | 16:34 |
| alf4lfa | rofl i doupt he wanna read all this :D | 16:34 |
| mag1strate | yashgaroth: are you a biologist? | 16:34 |
| alf4lfa | roflroflrofl | 16:35 |
| yashgaroth | yes I am mag | 16:35 |
| alf4lfa | i "can" | 16:35 |
| yashgaroth | yes d3nd3 you're correct | 16:35 |
| mag1strate | yashgaroth: just wondering you really seem to know alot | 16:36 |
| mag1strate | yashgaroth: going back to our earlier conversation, so the gene is augmented? | 16:37 |
| yashgaroth | ...sort of, yes, you're augmenting the amount of it | 16:37 |
| yashgaroth | and it's a modified version of that native gene | 16:39 |
| mag1strate | oh ok | 16:40 |
| mag1strate | so if you have a certain sequence it gets correct by changing the amount of the gene you don't want? | 16:40 |
| yashgaroth | ? | 16:41 |
| d3nd3 | i don't understand this quote from wikipedia | 16:43 |
| d3nd3 | do you ? | 16:43 |
| d3nd3 | yashgaroth: Both sense and antisense sequences can exist on different parts of the same strand of DNA | 16:43 |
| mag1strate | i mean if you have an undesirable gene, by increasing the supply of a different gene you would remove the old one | 16:43 |
| yashgaroth | d3nd3: yes, if they're not overlapping | 16:47 |
| yashgaroth | mag1strate: yes you can do that | 16:48 |
| d3nd3 | [00:48:51 BST] d3nd3-o0: if the sense is on strand 1 | 16:49 |
| d3nd3 | [00:48:55 BST] d3nd3-o0: the anti-sense also on strand 1 | 16:49 |
| d3nd3 | [00:48:57 BST] d3nd3-o0: then the antisense | 16:49 |
| d3nd3 | [00:49:00 BST] d3nd3-o0: would had also | 16:49 |
| d3nd3 | [00:49:04 BST] d3nd3-o0: an anti-anti sense | 16:49 |
| d3nd3 | [00:49:05 BST] d3nd3-o0: lol | 16:49 |
| d3nd3 | [00:49:08 BST] d3nd3-o0: on stra | 16:49 |
| d3nd3 | strand 2 * | 16:49 |
| d3nd3 | or an anti-ant-sense can be called a sense again | 16:51 |
| d3nd3 | o.O | 16:51 |
| mag1strate | yashgaroth: what do you mean by overlapping? | 16:54 |
| yashgaroth | like, within the same space on the DNA | 16:56 |
| mag1strate | oh ok | 17:03 |
| mag1strate | sweet | 17:03 |
| mag1strate | thank you for explaining that to me | 17:03 |
| mag1strate | :) | 17:03 |
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| d3nd3 | mitosis is duplication | 17:54 |
| d3nd3 | of egg and sperm cell ? | 17:54 |
| d3nd3 | replication* | 17:54 |
| d3nd3 | sex cells * ? | 17:54 |
| alf4lfa | jea the first split of the first cell from a organism??? | 17:55 |
| d3nd3 | Mitosis is the process by which a eukaryotic cell separates the chromosomes in its cell nucleus into two identical sets, in two separate nuclei. | 17:55 |
| d3nd3 | its not just sex cells | 17:55 |
| d3nd3 | its all eukaryotic | 17:55 |
| d3nd3 | cells | 17:55 |
| d3nd3 | so that dis functioning mutant cell | 17:56 |
| d3nd3 | is not for the children | 17:56 |
| d3nd3 | but for the children cells | 17:56 |
| d3nd3 | not children species | 17:56 |
| d3nd3 | but children cells | 17:56 |
| d3nd3 | so that leads me to wonder | 17:57 |
| d3nd3 | that if you modify the dna of a cell | 17:57 |
| d3nd3 | it doesn't do anything bad until it replicates? ( undergoes mitosis? ) | 17:57 |
| d3nd3 | or does it only depend if the mutation happens in the part of the cell which is expressed ( gene which is expressed? ) | 17:57 |
| d3nd3 | chromosone is broken in half | 18:00 |
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| alf4lfa | hi | 18:44 |
| d3nd3 | hi | 18:44 |
| alf4lfa | anyone here? | 18:44 |
| d3nd3 | we have question | 18:44 |
| _sol_ | hello | 18:44 |
| d3nd3 | anyone here? | 18:44 |
| alf4lfa | simple question! | 18:44 |
| d3nd3 | yes | 18:44 |
| yashgaroth | you guys are adorable, go ahead | 18:44 |
| * _sol_ jacks into the network with his biohack netdeck, and zones out to wiki-google before becoming addicted to feedback from the network... | 18:46 | |
| _sol_ | :P | 18:46 |
| alf4lfa | a chromosome, is it the 2 paired dna's or is a chromosome a single dna and it allways comes in pairs in the human? | 18:46 |
| alf4lfa | we dont know wether to call the 2 double helix (looking like a X) a chromosome, or the single ones | 18:47 |
| yashgaroth | it's a pair of two mostly identical DNAs, one from each parent | 18:47 |
| alf4lfa | ah ok so a chromosome is allways 2 dna's | 18:47 |
| alf4lfa | ty :P | 18:47 |
| _sol_ | I thought a chromosome was a dna strand that was paired up wrapped around histones which I think are little balls of protein that winds up into a chromosome form | 18:48 |
| _sol_ | although I need a refresher... | 18:48 |
| yashgaroth | it's also that | 18:48 |
| yashgaroth | also in germ cells like sperm and eggs, it's one strand | 18:48 |
| d3nd3 | question : there are 23 chromosones, but they are duplicated? | 18:49 |
| yashgaroth | yes, so 23x2 | 18:49 |
| d3nd3 | and the X shape that forms a chromosone :: its One Chromosone ? | 18:49 |
| d3nd3 | or 2 ? | 18:49 |
| d3nd3 | is the X shape the pair ? | 18:50 |
| d3nd3 | the dupicated pair ? | 18:50 |
| d3nd3 | or is the X shape one chromosone of the 46 | 18:50 |
| yashgaroth | the X is one of the 23 | 18:50 |
| d3nd3 | the X contains 2 ? | 18:50 |
| yashgaroth | y...yes | 18:51 |
| d3nd3 | this line / = a chromatid ? | 18:51 |
| d3nd3 | and this line \ = a chromatid ? | 18:51 |
| d3nd3 | combined form a chromozone ? | 18:51 |
| d3nd3 | so there are 23 chromosomes, which are .. 46 chromatids ? | 18:51 |
| d3nd3 | lol | 18:51 |
| _sol_ | I thought 42 was the secret of the universe not hte number 46? | 18:52 |
| _sol_ | heh | 18:52 |
| d3nd3 | i think then wikipedia is wrong | 18:53 |
| _sol_ | hmm? | 18:53 |
| _sol_ | it doesn't describe the # of chromosomes right? | 18:53 |
| _sol_ | or something else? | 18:53 |
| d3nd3 | if the X is named a chromosome, then there are 23 chromosomes in a human | 18:54 |
| d3nd3 | if the \ is named a chromosone , then there are 46 in a human | 18:55 |
| d3nd3 | but wiki names the \ as a chromatid | 18:55 |
| d3nd3 | when defining a chromosome, why do they show the X shape from a diploid cell | 18:55 |
| d3nd3 | its highly misleading | 18:55 |
| yashgaroth | because that's the most recognizable | 18:56 |
| Stee| | so, what is everyone in here's project currently? | 18:57 |
| d3nd3 | i have more questions about this chromosomes, like , you say one from the father and one from the mother, can you tell me how recessive allelles and dominant allelles plays a part in this ? also my bigger picture of the biolgical world there is that, there are 23 chromosomes, but they are twice ... and they aren't duplicated , they are different. Total different sets, since one has come from mother and one has come f | 18:58 |
| d3nd3 | So question is , which chromosone is code for me?! and which chromome is code for my offspring? | 18:58 |
| d3nd3 | Stee|: mine is to gather as much knowledge as i can | 19:00 |
| yashgaroth | have you considered not learning an entire scientific field on wikipedia, and instead downloading a copy of Molecular Biology of the Cell and reading it? | 19:00 |
| Stee| | d3nd3: What goal? | 19:00 |
| Stee| | I can give you a whole fuckton of knowledge in useless shit. | 19:01 |
| d3nd3 | Stee|: synthetic biology | 19:01 |
| Stee| | ahhh | 19:01 |
| Stee| | what's your bg? | 19:01 |
| kanzure_ | you don't have 1 chromosome for you, and 1 for your child.. | 19:02 |
| d3nd3 | Stee|: background ? nothing and nobody really. I had small interest in learning how computers work a little. Small knowledge on c, little asm, little stuff, very broad and light knowledge. But now i found something i have passion in, and so i am taking it serious with a long-term friend who also has made the same decision that we want to take this field seriously | 19:04 |
| d3nd3 | Stee|: we lived as gamers for some years, not achieving much really | 19:05 |
| Stee| | ah | 19:06 |
| Stee| | sweet | 19:06 |
| d3nd3 | its probably a lot to do with fear | 19:06 |
| d3nd3 | fearing the things which seem to be over our heads | 19:06 |
| yashgaroth | clouds? | 19:07 |
| d3nd3 | combine that with laziness, confusion and lack of motivation, its hard for one to get of his butt and live his life as he would dream it | 19:08 |
| roksprok | d3nd3: might i respectfully suggest picking up or downloading a textbook on molecular biology? I have found that working my way through a textbook is the easiest and quickest way to learn a new field of knowledge | 19:10 |
| yashgaroth | seriously, everything in Mol Bio of the Cell is useful, it's worth your time | 19:11 |
| roksprok | for example I'm currently working through http://grey.colorado.edu/CompCogNeuro/index.php/CCNBook/Main a book on computational cognitive neuroscience | 19:11 |
| roksprok | in fact it sounds like we are in similar situations in that we have one subject we are extremely passionate about | 19:12 |
| d3nd3 | i am learning at the same rate as my friend, we are in sync | 19:13 |
| d3nd3 | i am happy to take a slightyl strange approach to learning if it keeps us in sync | 19:13 |
| d3nd3 | as in interactive | 19:13 |
| d3nd3 | unless we both read this book at same time together | 19:13 |
| d3nd3 | ;) | 19:13 |
| alf4lfa | je we useing wikipedia with a happy and positive attitude | 19:13 |
| roksprok | well whatever works for you, good luck with it | 19:14 |
| d3nd3 | but that book | 19:14 |
| d3nd3 | we will read it for sure | 19:14 |
| d3nd3 | because | 19:14 |
| d3nd3 | we are hardcore | 19:14 |
| d3nd3 | lol | 19:14 |
| alf4lfa | because we read everything :D | 19:14 |
| d3nd3 | we will run out of books | 19:14 |
| d3nd3 | eventually | 19:14 |
| d3nd3 | lol | 19:14 |
| roksprok | good luck with that | 19:15 |
| roksprok | you will be very good on jepoardy | 19:15 |
| d3nd3 | so the book that you suggest its : instead downloading a copy of Molecular Biology of the Cell and reading it? | 19:15 |
| d3nd3 | haha | 19:15 |
| d3nd3 | well , we are determined to achieve our goal, our goal is very hard we thinks .. and its important we get it | 19:16 |
| d3nd3 | well i could say , our life depends on it ^^ | 19:16 |
| Stee| | heh | 19:16 |
| roksprok | well just try it out, see if you like it. as you know there is no wrong way to do it | 19:16 |
| Stee| | roksprok, what's your project? | 19:16 |
| roksprok | stee|: i am very much in the learning phase still, but brain computer interfaces | 19:17 |
| Stee| | cool | 19:17 |
| Stee| | building, hopefully? | 19:17 |
| roksprok | the super long term goal of course is to replace parts of the brain with machines, a la ted berger | 19:17 |
| d3nd3 | does the learning phase ever stop ?^^ | 19:17 |
| kanzure_ | d3nd3: no. stop asking. | 19:17 |
| d3nd3 | it slopes like a curve on a graph, it starts to approach horizontal | 19:17 |
| d3nd3 | eventually... i hope | 19:18 |
| roksprok | d3nd3: I meant in the preparing a foundation stage, not even close to horizontal | 19:18 |
| d3nd3 | right now its steep lol | 19:18 |
| roksprok | Stee|: yea building. i am a shit programmer | 19:18 |
| d3nd3 | yashgaroth: do you have link i can download this book molecular biology of cell? | 19:19 |
| yashgaroth | http://thepiratebay.se/torrent/5401801/Molecular_Biology_of_the_Cell_-_Alberts_-_5th_ed | 19:19 |
| * d3nd3 praises yash | 19:21 | |
| yashgaroth | so where are you two from? | 19:23 |
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| d3nd3 | myself, England, him Germany | 19:30 |
| d3nd3 | yes we have met in real life ;) | 19:30 |
| kanzure_ | you are not english | 19:31 |
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| d3nd3 | afraid i am XD | 19:32 |
| alfalfa | hi | 19:33 |
| d3nd3 | he is the non-english mutant ! | 19:33 |
| d3nd3 | not me ^^ | 19:33 |
| yashgaroth | is english your first language? | 19:33 |
| d3nd3 | me , yes , him , no | 19:33 |
| d3nd3 | i type bad on purpose | 19:33 |
| d3nd3 | its my style | 19:33 |
| d3nd3 | ^^ | 19:33 |
| alfalfa | hey i have question: in human there is allways a pair of chromosomes, are they identical? | 19:33 |
| kanzure_ | your style sucks | 19:33 |
| kanzure_ | be more clear | 19:33 |
| d3nd3 | kanzure_: thanks ! | 19:33 |
| yashgaroth | okay you guys both read through that textbook, then come back with questions | 19:34 |
| d3nd3 | haha | 19:34 |
| alfalfa | lol | 19:34 |
| roksprok | alfafa: they encode the same genes, but different alleles | 19:34 |
| roksprok | you get one from your mother and one from your father | 19:34 |
| roksprok | have you heard of dominant and recessive? | 19:34 |
| alfalfa | hm it sounds familiar | 19:34 |
| d3nd3 | where is it stored to choose which allelle ? | 19:35 |
| d3nd3 | also how is gene expression executed ? | 19:35 |
| d3nd3 | for a particular cell | 19:35 |
| roksprok | like you, your parents each had two, and one from each of them was passed down to you | 19:36 |
| roksprok | with minor mutations due to copying errors | 19:36 |
| roksprok | d3nd3: gene expression is a huge process | 19:36 |
| alfalfa | ohh mutations.. that explains my intelligence | 19:36 |
| alfalfa | cuz my mom and dad are kinda not so ... | 19:36 |
| roksprok | you'd be better off googling or looking on wikipedia or reading the text book | 19:36 |
| yashgaroth | TEXTBOOK | 19:37 |
| d3nd3 | Okay | 19:37 |
| alfalfa | ok ty for the info | 19:37 |
| d3nd3 | i thought maybe i can build a skeleton or template idea from your simple words but not the full picture | 19:37 |
| d3nd3 | i have this ability | 19:37 |
| kanzure_ | alfalfa: intelligence isn't a real thing, don't think of it like that | 19:37 |
| d3nd3 | to think of skeletons | 19:37 |
| kanzure_ | well, think of reading the book, instad | 19:37 |
| kanzure_ | *instead | 19:37 |
| alfalfa | its not real? | 19:37 |
| d3nd3 | the cake is not real! | 19:37 |
| roksprok | d3nd3: i would love to give you a skeleton, but i am probably the most ignorant one in here concerning molecular biology | 19:38 |
| roksprok | so you would have a really crappy skeleton | 19:38 |
| d3nd3 | roksprok: i appreciate your honesty | 19:38 |
| alfalfa | kanzure_: i am intrested in ur philosophy about intelligence | 19:38 |
| kanzure_ | no you're not | 19:38 |
| yashgaroth | hahaha | 19:39 |
| alfalfa | kanzure_: i am because i am a great philosopher and i have maybe similar views, come on we can make some bonds if we have same opinion | 19:39 |
| kanzure_ | there is a no-philosophy rule in here | 19:39 |
| kanzure_ | "intelligence [D"is too much philosophy | 19:39 |
| kanzure_ | oops, "intelligence" is too much philosophy | 19:39 |
| alfalfa | ok then, i go digg in my textbooks :P | 19:40 |
| roksprok | alfalfa and d3nd3: enjoy and good luck, i hope you accomplish all you seek to | 19:41 |
| alfalfa | roksprok: thank you roksprok | 19:41 |
| sylph_mako | d3nd3, I didn't realize the skeleton thing was a thing that people can do. I suffer when I'm asked to learn skeletons. | 19:44 |
| sylph_mako | I complain about there being no real knowledge to them, requesting details of composite mechanisms rather than overviews. | 19:47 |
| sylph_mako | component* | 19:47 |
| Stee| | sylph, what are you talking about? | 19:50 |
| sylph_mako | <d3nd3> i thought maybe i can build a skeleton or template idea from your simple words but not the full picture | 19:51 |
| sylph_mako | <d3nd3> i have this ability | 19:51 |
| sylph_mako | I do not have this ability. | 19:51 |
| Stee| | ahhh | 19:51 |
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| Stee| | augur, what is your project? | 19:54 |
| augur | what? | 19:54 |
| Stee| | what are you working on? :P | 19:54 |
| augur | what do you mean | 19:55 |
| Stee| | are you working on a cool project | 19:58 |
| Mokbortolan_ | his hobby is painting lawn gnomes, and he doesn't want to talk about it | 20:04 |
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| kanzure_ | argh pjscrape | 20:35 |
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| kanzure_ | phantomjs is just giving me segfaults. not fair.. | 21:20 |
| * kanzure_ sleeps | 21:20 | |
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| Mokbortolan_ | what causes this: http://www.worldstarhiphop.com/videos/video.php?v=wshhz1CYVNt6XbIVT22C | 22:52 |
| Mokbortolan_ | one thing that will be fun | 22:53 |
| Mokbortolan_ | I think, is learning how all of what we're doing is going to affect us | 22:53 |
| Mokbortolan_ | developmentally | 22:53 |
| Mokbortolan_ | or, our children, and theirs | 22:53 |
| Mokbortolan_ | the link is a video about a young man who is in an intimate relationship with his vehicle | 22:54 |
| Mokbortolan_ | how weird are kids going to grow up to be if we let them put high resolution displays on their corneas? | 23:16 |
| yashgaroth | that video reminds me of the encyclopedia dramatica article on transhumanism, back when that site was up | 23:16 |
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| --- Log closed Sun Feb 12 00:00:06 2012 | ||
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