| --- Log opened Sun Feb 12 00:00:06 2012 | ||
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| JayDugger | Good morning, everyone. | 01:47 |
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| delinquentme | marainein, howdy! | 03:20 |
| marainein | delinquentme, hi | 03:24 |
| delinquentme | You here to buy some life extension pills? | 03:24 |
| marainein | in a word, no | 03:25 |
| marainein | yourself? | 03:28 |
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| mag1strate | s | 06:01 |
| delinquentme | marainein, im here to try and make em :D | 07:04 |
| delinquentme | mag1strate, howdy | 07:04 |
| mag1strate | hey whats up | 07:24 |
| delinquentme | java | 07:48 |
| delinquentme | ing | 07:48 |
| delinquentme | troubleshooting | 07:48 |
| mag1strate | cool | 07:53 |
| mag1strate | what are you doing on java? | 07:53 |
| delinquentme | trying to get jython and java to talk so I can pass strings between then | 07:53 |
| delinquentme | them* | 07:53 |
| mag1strate | thats cool | 08:00 |
| mag1strate | are you a programming major | 08:01 |
| mag1strate | or comp science | 08:01 |
| delinquentme | nope! going at it on my own | 08:10 |
| mag1strate | nice | 08:14 |
| mag1strate | I am trying to learn C but I have been going slow at it since school has been in the way | 08:15 |
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| delinquentme | mag1strate, im a little butt hurt over it atm | 08:16 |
| delinquentme | the object inheritance is all effed up | 08:16 |
| delinquentme | granted this is my first compiled language though so | 08:16 |
| mag1strate | that sucks | 08:16 |
| mag1strate | where are you having the problem | 08:17 |
| delinquentme | references to .class files | 08:18 |
| delinquentme | i say its there .. java says its not | 08:18 |
| mag1strate | hmm | 08:18 |
| mag1strate | that seems weird | 08:18 |
| mag1strate | it should pick it up | 08:19 |
| mag1strate | you might be running your program using jar command and class was not defined in manifest file's ClassPath attribute | 08:20 |
| delinquentme | yeahh but im adding to class path right there in the javac command | 08:28 |
| mag1strate | oh | 08:37 |
| mag1strate | lol im not sure than. I know thats a common problem though | 08:37 |
| klafka | ? | 08:42 |
| mag1strate | ? | 08:45 |
| delinquentme | klafka, java is reference hell | 08:47 |
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| klafka | fuck java | 09:29 |
| klafka | so hard | 09:29 |
| klafka | btw delinquentme you're trying to move out here right? we have job openings for clicky-click web company :P | 09:30 |
| delinquentme | oh | 09:34 |
| delinquentme | du now? | 09:34 |
| delinquentme | rails? | 09:34 |
| delinquentme | klafka, ^^ | 09:46 |
| delinquentme | THERE | 09:49 |
| delinquentme | IT IS DONE | 09:49 |
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| mag1strate | noice | 09:51 |
| delinquentme | jython tester.py "nacho" | 09:51 |
| mag1strate | what does it do? | 09:51 |
| delinquentme | right now it passes a variable into a java program which basically creates a "HI " +name and returns it | 09:52 |
| delinquentme | HOPEFULLY | 09:52 |
| delinquentme | im going to edit that so I can pass in human written chemical formulas and get codified output | 09:52 |
| delinquentme | so like I can just feed it research papers and begin building up a database of this shit | 09:53 |
| mag1strate | thats cool | 09:54 |
| mag1strate | so its going to translate chemical formulas and give you a different type of output? | 09:54 |
| delinquentme | yeah! | 09:55 |
| delinquentme | but the cool thing is ... this is *WORKING* NLP | 09:55 |
| delinquentme | like google working on regular NLP for people -talk | 09:55 |
| delinquentme | but since this is a niche application ! | 09:55 |
| delinquentme | someone has already made a working piece of software | 09:56 |
| klafka | delinquentme mainly javascript | 09:57 |
| mag1strate | thats cool | 09:57 |
| klafka | we'll probably need more rails people in a bit | 09:57 |
| mag1strate | what are rails people? | 09:58 |
| klafka | hobos | 09:58 |
| delinquentme | klafka, are you guys backed on rails? | 09:58 |
| klafka | yes | 09:58 |
| delinquentme | testacular | 09:58 |
| klafka | rails + mongodb is our back end | 09:59 |
| delinquentme | klafka, what databases? | 09:59 |
| delinquentme | ^^ | 09:59 |
| delinquentme | know anything about the rails stack? | 09:59 |
| delinquentme | Id assume Haml / Sass / Compass? | 09:59 |
| klafka | we do use some mysql and some redis as well | 09:59 |
| klafka | nooo idea frankly | 09:59 |
| delinquentme | coooool | 10:00 |
| delinquentme | yeah man I'd totally apply | 10:00 |
| klafka | so ypure specifically interested in a rails dev spot then? | 10:00 |
| klafka | k i'll let you know about that, though idk if we're gonna be hiring more of those till like q3 or q2 -_- | 10:03 |
| delinquentme | umm well i can do both | 10:05 |
| delinquentme | rails is kinda whats hot out there so thats what I was expecting | 10:05 |
| delinquentme | but I've got pages on pages of JS i can send over | 10:05 |
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| kanzure_ | delinquentme should just use a grammar/parser for chemical equations instead. | 12:21 |
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| kanzure | http://www.neuropharmacology-conference.elsevier.com/special-issue.html | 13:13 |
| kanzure | "Neuropharmacology will be publishing a Special Issue on “Cognitive Enhancers” for distribution to each delegate at the 22nd Neuropharmacology Conference; a satellite meeting to the 2012 Society for Neuroscience meeting. This year’s meeting will be organized by Gary Lynch and Barbara Sahakian." | 13:13 |
| kanzure | hah elsevier computes a "5-year impact factor" | 13:15 |
| kanzure | http://www.journals.elsevier.com/neuropharmacology/#description | 13:15 |
| mag1strate | is this a live meeting | 13:16 |
| kanzure | society for neuroscience is a live meeting each year, yes | 13:16 |
| kanzure | i believe there's even a debian delegation that attends :x | 13:17 |
| mag1strate | what is that? | 13:19 |
| kanzure | debian? | 13:19 |
| mag1strate | the OS? | 13:20 |
| kanzure | that's linux | 13:21 |
| kanzure | well yes | 13:21 |
| kanzure | anyway, them. | 13:21 |
| kanzure | their neuroscience team. | 13:21 |
| mag1strate | oh lol | 13:22 |
| kanzure | http://neuro.debian.net/ | 13:22 |
| mag1strate | debian with software for neuroscience | 13:33 |
| mag1strate | thats pretty cool | 13:33 |
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| kanzure | http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21328514.900-molecules-from-scratch-without-the-fiendish-physics.html | 13:58 |
| kanzure | "His team focused on a basic property: the energy tied up in all the | 13:58 |
| kanzure | bonds holding a molecule together, the atomisation energy. The team | 13:58 |
| kanzure | "When the researchers tested the resulting algorithm on the remaining | 13:58 |
| kanzure | built a database of 7165 molecules with known atomisation energies | 13:58 |
| kanzure | and structures. The computer used 1000 of these to identify | 13:58 |
| kanzure | structural features that could predict the atomisation energies." | 13:58 |
| kanzure | 6165 molecules, it produced atomisation energies within 1 per cent | 13:58 |
| kanzure | of the true value. That is comparable to the accuracy of | 13:58 |
| kanzure | mathematical approximations of the Schrödinger equation, which work | 13:58 |
| kanzure | but take longer to calculate as molecules get bigger (Physical | 13:58 |
| kanzure | Review Letters, [16]DOI: 10.1103/PhysRevLett.108.058301)." | 13:59 |
| kanzure | "The algorithm found solutions in a millisecond that would take these | 13:59 |
| kanzure | earlier methods an hour. "Instead of having to wait years to screen | 13:59 |
| kanzure | http://dx.doi.org/10.1103/PhysRevLett.108.058301 | 13:59 |
| kanzure | lots of new molecules, you might have to wait weeks or a month,"" | 13:59 |
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| kanzure | Fast and Accurate Modeling of Molecular Atomization Energies with Machine Learning | 13:59 |
| kanzure | http://prl.aps.org/abstract/PRL/v108/i5/e058301 | 13:59 |
| kanzure | "The problem of solving the molecular Schrödinger equation is mapped onto a nonlinear statistical regression problem of reduced complexity. Regression models are trained on and compared to atomization energies computed with hybrid density-functional theory. Cross validation over more than seven thousand organic molecules yields a mean absolute error of ∼10 kcal/mol. Applicability is demonstrated for the prediction of molecular atomization p | 14:00 |
| kanzure | so their regression model is some approximation of a solved Schrödinger equation | 14:00 |
| kanzure | the regression model is probably some hundred-term beast | 14:02 |
| kanzure | http://arxiv.org/abs/1109.2618 | 14:08 |
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| kanzure | hi chris_99 | 14:58 |
| kanzure | are you looking for uk dna synthesis options | 14:58 |
| chris_99 | hey | 14:59 |
| chris_99 | yes i am | 14:59 |
| chris_99 | do you know of any? | 14:59 |
| kanzure | nope, i just order online or do it myself | 15:00 |
| chris_99 | where do you order from though? | 15:00 |
| kanzure | idt | 15:00 |
| chris_99 | cool thanks | 15:01 |
| chris_99 | what sort of things do you make? | 15:01 |
| kanzure | http://www.invitrogen.com/site/us/en/home/Products-and-Services/Applications/Cloning/gene-synthesis.html?CID=fl-genesynthesis | 15:01 |
| kanzure | software, hardware, lab equipment | 15:02 |
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| chris_99 | nice :) | 15:02 |
| kanzure | wow what? $0.35/bp? prices are going up :/ | 15:04 |
| kanzure | "1.8 kb in 7 business days" | 15:04 |
| kanzure | that's horrible | 15:04 |
| chris_99 | what kinds of things have you had synthesed, i'm curious what kind of things you can do using this technique | 15:05 |
| kanzure | i haven't synthesized dna lately, but last time i did i was copying some of erik winfree's work | 15:05 |
| chris_99 | another guy i need to read more about, what was that? | 15:06 |
| kanzure | who are you? | 15:07 |
| chris_99 | a computer scientist | 15:07 |
| kanzure | can i possibly convince you to work on diybio-related software | 15:07 |
| chris_99 | possibly yeah, i'm very new to biology mind | 15:08 |
| archels | guerilla recruiting | 15:08 |
| kanzure | chris_99: not all the problems are related to biology directly; there's a lot of dumb stuff that needs to get fixed | 15:08 |
| kanzure | like svg-based microfluidic software | 15:09 |
| chris_99 | if you can point me to some things that need doing i'm certainly interested | 15:09 |
| kanzure | another thing: english-based grammar/parsing of biology protocols into a standard format | 15:10 |
| kanzure | or some sort of representation. | 15:10 |
| chris_99 | a friend of mine is actually involved in linguistics | 15:11 |
| chris_99 | (computational) | 15:11 |
| kanzure | the SVG stuff would be very helpful; there's no reason everyone should be using $20,000/seat software to draw lines and shit | 15:12 |
| kanzure | but there does need to be a basic library of components that can be rendered into a final design | 15:12 |
| chris_99 | what kind of things would you need to do with the SVG stuff specifically? | 15:13 |
| kanzure | some sort of input for describing a final design, then translating that into a rendered image (pretty simple i guess) | 15:13 |
| kanzure | i've been meaning to do this since forever but it's just a matter of manpower/time | 15:13 |
| kanzure | it's a really simple program in theory | 15:13 |
| kanzure | chris_99: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/microfluidics/ | 15:14 |
| chris_99 | thanks, i'll have a read through those and see if i can do anything. i'm just thinking, have you heard of inkscape, because you could base something on that | 15:15 |
| kanzure | yes i use inkscape | 15:15 |
| kanzure | i'd rather not use GUI tools though | 15:15 |
| kanzure | there's no reason we can't do VLSI for microfluidics | 15:15 |
| kanzure | erm, verilog-type stuff | 15:15 |
| chris_99 | wait, by SVG, what do you mean exactly | 15:16 |
| kanzure | the file format | 15:16 |
| chris_99 | ah ok | 15:16 |
| kanzure | right? | 15:16 |
| chris_99 | yeah, i was wondering whether you meant something else for a second | 15:16 |
| chris_99 | well, GPUs should be great for this | 15:16 |
| chris_99 | and easier to get hold of than FPGAs etc. | 15:17 |
| kanzure | observe: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-vJ0Y_HtFY&feature=related | 15:17 |
| chris_99 | oohhhhhh! | 15:17 |
| chris_99 | this is something i read about ages ago, in an old tommorows world book | 15:18 |
| chris_99 | about how you could create logic gates | 15:18 |
| chris_99 | using fluidonics | 15:18 |
| chris_99 | i've never seen anything like that before though in a video :) | 15:18 |
| kanzure | i've been working on a microfluidic dna synthesizer | 15:19 |
| chris_99 | can you explain how that works in lay-mans terms? | 15:20 |
| kanzure | no | 15:20 |
| kanzure | erm, yes.. what would you like to know | 15:20 |
| kanzure | this is a slightly ooler video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1fEHLarRZk | 15:21 |
| kanzure | *cooler | 15:21 |
| chris_99 | forgive me as i know nothing about dna synthesis really. so given certain chemicals you can actually create strands of dna? | 15:21 |
| kanzure | yes | 15:21 |
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| kanzure | this is called oligonucleotide synthesis | 15:21 |
| kanzure | there are a few different methods for chemical synthesis of oligos | 15:22 |
| chris_99 | and you could theoretically create anything from partsdatabase? | 15:22 |
| kanzure | phosphoramidite chemistry, phosphite chemistry.. etc. | 15:22 |
| kanzure | urhm, well, you're getting ahead of yoursel | 15:22 |
| kanzure | *yourself | 15:22 |
| kanzure | this is just to build the raw molecule. | 15:22 |
| chris_99 | ah, so you then have to combine molecules somehow? | 15:23 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/DNA/ has some info on oligonucleotide synthesis | 15:23 |
| chris_99 | cheers | 15:23 |
| kanzure | well, you can if you want, that's another method | 15:23 |
| kanzure | because of low accuracy of oligo synthesis, some people just combine smaller fragments of dna molecules into larger molecules using a ligation method | 15:24 |
| kanzure | so you ligate (concatenate) two strings together | 15:24 |
| kanzure | in those scenarios, you use a molecule library and select which item from the library you want to add to the growing molecule you're creating | 15:24 |
| kanzure | so if your library items are 100 base pairs each, then for a full library you need 4^100 molecules | 15:25 |
| kanzure | i'm pretty sure this number is only slightly less than the total number of atoms in the universe | 15:25 |
| chris_99 | haha | 15:26 |
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| chris_99 | so what kind of system would you need to take them from your system and ligate them | 15:26 |
| kanzure | what are you asking | 15:26 |
| chris_99 | sorry, how do they make the dna sequences from partsdb | 15:28 |
| chris_99 | is what i mean | 15:28 |
| kanzure | what is partsdb | 15:28 |
| chris_99 | sorry parts registry http://partsregistry.org/Main_Page | 15:29 |
| kanzure | that's just biobricks.. those sometimes work, but it doesn't really matter | 15:29 |
| kanzure | they export a file format and have the dna sequence in the file somewhere | 15:29 |
| yashgaroth | those sequences are already made, you don't need to synthesize them every time | 15:29 |
| kanzure | but in actuality i think they just ship a book to their igem member groups | 15:29 |
| kanzure | and the book has physical samples attached on each page. | 15:30 |
| chris_99 | oh cool :) | 15:30 |
| kanzure | not really | 15:30 |
| chris_99 | is there anything cool that you would recommend i could get synthesised? | 15:31 |
| kanzure | do you have a lab? | 15:31 |
| chris_99 | not at the moment | 15:31 |
| kanzure | so.. you want to pay $10k to synthesize something.. why? | 15:31 |
| kanzure | you should just spend that $10k on building a lab | 15:32 |
| chris_99 | oh i didn't realise it would be that expensive | 15:32 |
| kanzure | $0.35/bp | 15:32 |
| kanzure | and i guess they are only allowing 1.8 kbp at a time (yikes) | 15:32 |
| chris_99 | ah | 15:32 |
| kanzure | yashgaroth: you know, i didn't know they were limiting to such small ragments | 15:32 |
| kanzure | fragments | 15:33 |
| yashgaroth | oh totally | 15:33 |
| kanzure | i know they have sequencing costs and they are probably ligating some parts of it together, but still.. | 15:33 |
| yashgaroth | except genes, most stuff in bacteria doesn't need to be too long anyway | 15:33 |
| kanzure | eh? damn it i want a frequency/histogram chart | 15:34 |
| kanzure | from what i recall most gene-encoding proteins that are of interest are <30kbp | 15:34 |
| chris_99 | nice talking to you guys, gotta dash | 15:34 |
| kanzure | but usually at least 1kbp | 15:34 |
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| yashgaroth | yes, and still much longer than regulatory elements | 15:34 |
| yashgaroth | I meant aside from genes it's all short stuff | 15:34 |
| kanzure | sure | 15:35 |
| kanzure | this shouldn't be too hard to do; download the genes/sequences from ncbi and draw a chart of their relative lengths | 15:35 |
| kanzure | and then do that across a few bacteria, a few mammals.. | 15:35 |
| kanzure | delinquentme: there's your paper. | 15:35 |
| kanzure | probably an afternoon of coding at most | 15:35 |
| kanzure | and probably done before, but who cares | 15:36 |
| yashgaroth | well, if I had to guess a rough midpoint, maybe...400 residues as the average | 15:36 |
| yashgaroth | a few really small and really big ones, but most enzyme monomers are very roughly that size | 15:36 |
| kanzure | oh also, pdb viewers in webgl | 15:36 |
| kanzure | http://www.macresearch.org/protein-ribbon-models-webgl | 15:36 |
| kanzure | haha.. an html5/chemistry startup? http://web.chemdoodle.com/ bizarre | 15:37 |
| roksprok | so i have a newb question, is molecular biology to the point where a desired gene can be synthesized and inserted anywhere in a desired chromosome? | 15:37 |
| yashgaroth | no | 15:37 |
| kanzure | there are many ways of "inserting" | 15:38 |
| kanzure | if you mean, insert it and then synthesize the whole genome from scratch... | 15:38 |
| yashgaroth | there's some work with zinc-finger nucleases to get site specificity, but it's nowhere near "put it in position 3,543,456 of chromosome 7" | 15:38 |
| * kanzure nods | 15:38 | |
| yashgaroth | usually you don't need to place it in a specific location, thankfully | 15:38 |
| kanzure | or sometimes you just need a temporary plasmid | 15:39 |
| roksprok | ok, so when you hear for example, http://www.physorg.com/news194539934.html | 15:39 |
| yashgaroth | yeah, you can have a plasmid that operates without needing to integrate, or there's some that can go to a known chrom. location (most of the time) | 15:39 |
| roksprok | where they put spider genes into a goat | 15:39 |
| kanzure | 1) stop reading the news | 15:40 |
| yashgaroth | in that case, as long as the insert gets somewhere into the genome, it'll work | 15:40 |
| roksprok | kanzure: I am trying, but it is a hard habit to break | 15:40 |
| roksprok | yashgaroth: thanks that makes sense | 15:40 |
| kanzure | science news is so weird. | 15:41 |
| yashgaroth | ofc. making a whole organism with the gene is a lot harder, but still possible | 15:41 |
| roksprok | and this is all under the umbrella of 'molecular biology' as far as finding textbooks and such? | 15:42 |
| roksprok | kanzure: agreed, i am actually trying to eliminate most news/magazine media from my life | 15:42 |
| yashgaroth | germline genetic engineering isn't specifically in your general textbooks, but the principles are | 15:42 |
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| kanzure | there's probably a textbook about that | 15:43 |
| yashgaroth | yeah but it's probably put out by springer | 15:43 |
| kanzure | i should put my biology book collection back online | 15:43 |
| kanzure | libgenesis has lots of biology stuff | 15:44 |
| roksprok | would this work? Introduction to Genetic Engineering | 15:44 |
| roksprok | http://www.amazon.com/Introduction-Genetic-Engineering-Desmond-Nicholl/dp/0521615216/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1329090221&sr=1-1 | 15:44 |
| kanzure | pick something that you don't have to buy. | 15:44 |
| roksprok | i wasn't planning on buying it, i just use amazon to find the title i want before i go off searching for it | 15:45 |
| yashgaroth | looks like an alright overview, but you still need protocols | 15:45 |
| yashgaroth | what are you trying to do? and in what organism | 15:46 |
| roksprok | would openwetware have enough? | 15:46 |
| kanzure | http://protocol-online.org/ is an ok starting point, but we seriously need to make something better | 15:46 |
| kanzure | no openwetware has like a fraction of a fraction of a percent of protocols | 15:46 |
| yashgaroth | man bioxplorer used to be so awesome for bio textbooks back before it got neutered | 15:46 |
| roksprok | yashgaroth: nothing at the moment i am more interested in the neuroscience area but I would like to have a solid foundation so i can know what is possible/the general techniques/ that kind of stuff | 15:47 |
| kanzure | if you want to actually practice techniques i suggest you go hook up with your local community college | 15:47 |
| yashgaroth | well, 'molecular biology of the cell' is always a good recommendation there, I wouldn't delve deeper til you've read it | 15:48 |
| roksprok | i took a lab course where we did stuff like inserting plasmids into bacteria | 15:48 |
| roksprok | and then feeding the bacteria to c elegens | 15:48 |
| kanzure | is there a follow-up class? | 15:48 |
| roksprok | not really a lab class, at least not one i could take | 15:49 |
| roksprok | they are all part of the 'master's of biotechnology' program | 15:49 |
| roksprok | that people who are not in the program can not register for | 15:50 |
| kanzure | that sucks | 15:50 |
| roksprok | yea i was not too pleased with college in general | 15:51 |
| kanzure | isn't this like, one of the highly-skilled-areas that you're supposed to be able to learn from college? | 15:52 |
| yashgaroth | pfft I never learned anything new in class | 15:52 |
| yashgaroth | college is only good for getting high and having journal access | 15:55 |
| kanzure | incidentally, this is what singularityu should teach | 15:55 |
| kanzure | or my would-be transhumanist bootcamp | 15:55 |
| roksprok | yashgaroth: i will agree with you on that | 15:55 |
| roksprok | kanzure: what type of things does singularityu teach? isn't it like business development stuff? | 15:56 |
| kanzure | no | 15:56 |
| kanzure | it's more like.. vague lectures about how awesome synthetic biology is | 15:56 |
| kanzure | vague lectures about how awesome 3d printing is | 15:56 |
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| kanzure | vague lectures about how awesome peter diamandis is | 15:56 |
| Steel_ | He's awesome for my resume. | 15:57 |
| Steel_ | :V | 15:57 |
| roksprok | thats not good, in general i've been a bit frustrated with the amount of ethics stuff i get when i search for transhumanist stuff | 15:57 |
| yashgaroth | there's quite a lot of planning for superintelligent AIs, and not much on planning how to make them | 15:57 |
| Steel_ | roksprok: I have a fairly conclusive list of the ethics stuff, so you can make a filter based on ignoring those if you want | 15:57 |
| kanzure | roksprok: sorry about that | 15:57 |
| Steel_ | it's in the philosophy subforum | 15:57 |
| roksprok | Stee|: thanks i will take a look | 15:58 |
| kanzure | stop pimping your forum.. | 15:58 |
| eudoxia | but it's cool | 15:58 |
| kanzure | um.. | 15:58 |
| Steel_ | kanzure: is this a 'stop pimping or ban'? :P | 15:58 |
| yashgaroth | think of it as the hplusroadmap forum | 15:58 |
| uniqanomaly | It's almost like those who can't do something work on ethics of that thing | 15:58 |
| Steel_ | I like the parable of the dragon | 15:59 |
| kanzure | uniqanomaly: not even that.. people who claim to believe in transhumanist ideas, just do ethics anyway | 15:59 |
| Steel_ | and there's some useful stuff for getting support from the religious | 15:59 |
| yashgaroth | and all this shit about animal uplifting, it's like, who gives a flying fuck | 15:59 |
| eudoxia | yeah seriously | 15:59 |
| eudoxia | "Rights for Non-Human Persons Program" | 15:59 |
| kanzure | the sad truth is that the majority of prior transhumanists have been insufficiently militant about how serious they are | 15:59 |
| yashgaroth | am I obliged to make all fruit flies sentient? | 15:59 |
| yashgaroth | it keeps me up at night guys | 15:59 |
| kanzure | the extropian principles are neat but only if you really believe in making it happen | 15:59 |
| roksprok | Stee|: should people really worry about getting support from the religious when we don't even have support from a lot of nonreligious? | 16:00 |
| Steel_ | roksprok: I think there's a lot of previous religious sentiment IN the non-religious | 16:00 |
| sylph_mako | Rights for AIs => Immediate human economic irrelevance. | 16:00 |
| Steel_ | or at least religious ethics roots to the belief system | 16:00 |
| eudoxia | we should start pandering to the trendy pseudoskeptics at RationalWiki | 16:00 |
| kanzure | sylph_mako: not really.. economics doesn't matter in the scheme of things | 16:00 |
| eudoxia | then focus on religions | 16:00 |
| kanzure | rationalwiki sounds like a lesswrong thing, avoid | 16:00 |
| Steel_ | rationalwiki makes fun of lesswrong actually | 16:00 |
| kanzure | lesswrong makes fun of itself too, so what | 16:01 |
| Steel_ | conceded | 16:01 |
| uniqanomaly | sylph_mako: AIs dont even need rights, corporations have enough rights for AIs to do stuff | 16:01 |
| roksprok | and i'm pretty sure lesswrong makes fun of rationalwiki right back | 16:01 |
| kanzure | yashgaroth: i think their point is that "rights" are important and that somehow non-human-rights means that when you become non-human, you will still have rights | 16:01 |
| kanzure | yashgaroth: unfortunately this requires you to think that 'rights' are real physical things, not just wishywashy politics | 16:01 |
| Steel_ | Using rawls philosophy made it simple to me :P | 16:01 |
| kanzure | my cells operate on physical laws, not politics | 16:02 |
| yashgaroth | yeah but it's still a massive circlejerk | 16:02 |
| kanzure | animal uplifting? yeah of course | 16:02 |
| Steel_ | I think the most interesting thing that comes out lw is ways to approach people with biases ABOUT transhumanism. ie using what LW focuses on as a tool. | 16:02 |
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| Steel_ | except that doesn't work most of the time | 16:02 |
| Steel_ | I stopped going there regularly after I found this channel | 16:03 |
| kanzure | Steel_: it's really just a siai propaganda tool | 16:03 |
| yashgaroth | I'm all for rights for AI and sapient animals, but debating it among transhumanists just wastes time | 16:03 |
| yashgaroth | kanzure: lesswrong is? | 16:04 |
| kanzure | yes | 16:04 |
| Steel_ | I wonder what Sing University's take is. | 16:04 |
| kanzure | on what | 16:04 |
| Steel_ | Profit/Loss | 16:04 |
| kanzure | on what | 16:05 |
| Steel_ | how much money do they make on their courses | 16:05 |
| kanzure | $25,000 per student, but most are subsidized | 16:05 |
| yashgaroth | jesus, whose cocaine does that pay for | 16:05 |
| kanzure | they had 80 students in one of their 2010 sessions? | 16:05 |
| Steel_ | Right, but what does their financial statement look like. | 16:05 |
| kanzure | not sure | 16:05 |
| kanzure | the point is: it's a lot of money to hear about how awesome 3d printing is | 16:05 |
| Steel_ | is Sing U a nonprofit? | 16:06 |
| kanzure | no | 16:06 |
| Steel_ | Hahaha, Diamandis you cad. | 16:06 |
| yashgaroth | did you expect any different | 16:06 |
| Steel_ | The dude is hilarious. | 16:06 |
| kanzure | it is very very much a commercial operation | 16:06 |
| Steel_ | How does SIAI justify begging for money? >_> | 16:07 |
| kanzure | what? | 16:07 |
| yashgaroth | 'if we don't sit around daydreaming about AI, who will?' | 16:07 |
| Steel_ | isn't SU associated with SIAI? | 16:07 |
| kanzure | no | 16:07 |
| eudoxia | it doesn't, bored Silicon Valley engineers are more than willing to give away millions for a fantasy | 16:07 |
| Steel_ | oh, my bad | 16:07 |
| kanzure | it is not related to SU at all | 16:07 |
| Steel_ | jesus christ. | 16:08 |
| Steel_ | that 25k is easily undercuttable >_> | 16:08 |
| kanzure | yep.. SU is pretty sick | 16:08 |
| kanzure | not really.. they are selling a premium thing there, | 16:08 |
| kanzure | "the ability to connect with people who can afford to spend $25k" | 16:08 |
| mag1strate | what is SU? | 16:08 |
| kanzure | http://singularityu.org/ | 16:08 |
| kanzure | Steel_: nobody would spend $10k to go to transhumanist bootcamp where you learn how to actually do these things | 16:09 |
| kanzure | all you guys would love it, | 16:09 |
| Steel_ | kanzure: Nah, but they would to meet the people who are actually implementing them now instead of talking about it. | 16:09 |
| Steel_ | You have name brand, dude | 16:09 |
| kanzure | but frankly you are all broke. | 16:09 |
| Steel_ | I won't be shortly :V | 16:09 |
| Steel_ | And then I will appease your issues with my by throwing money at people to do projects | 16:10 |
| Steel_ | or something | 16:10 |
| Steel_ | *with me | 16:10 |
| mag1strate | I think this place would be pretty cool just to have the connections | 16:11 |
| mag1strate | I mean if you really get to meet the people and go to the places that they say | 16:11 |
| mag1strate | that might be a benefit | 16:11 |
| Steel_ | Depending if I can raise money through the forum, and what my income statement is like this year, I may fly some people out to san fran with my in october | 16:11 |
| Steel_ | *with me | 16:11 |
| Steel_ | jesus christ, same typo twice | 16:12 |
| kanzure | um.. why? | 16:12 |
| kanzure | it's pretty cheap to go to sf on your own | 16:12 |
| kanzure | $250 for a roundtrip.. who cares, that's like an expensive meal | 16:12 |
| Steel_ | because singsummit is just as good of a place to meet other dudes as possible--and to proselytize practical transhumanism | 16:12 |
| kanzure | not really, singsummit is for FAI advocacy | 16:12 |
| Steel_ | There's some useful shit there, no? | 16:12 |
| Steel_ | even marginal? | 16:12 |
| kanzure | ok so your plan is to fund people to attend the conference | 16:13 |
| kanzure | my recommendation is to go as a speaker- attendance is free then | 16:13 |
| kanzure | or as a volunteer | 16:13 |
| Steel_ | that's the goal, the speaker thing | 16:13 |
| Steel_ | if not this year then next | 16:13 |
| kanzure | ok.. why? | 16:13 |
| Steel_ | I have a couple articles I'd like to write | 16:13 |
| Steel_ | shit dude, why do I do anything? To make the pie bigger for everyone, while getting a nice piece for myself | 16:14 |
| mag1strate | Holy shit balls this place is 25k a year? | 16:14 |
| Steel_ | not a year | 16:14 |
| Steel_ | for like a month | 16:14 |
| mag1strate | ... | 16:14 |
| mag1strate | and they only take 80 people? | 16:14 |
| Steel_ | kanzure, know of any good mod/sim projects? I've already talked to yashgaroth about trying to model the electroporation problem (if it's not sufficiently well handled) | 16:14 |
| kanzure | Steel_: it would be helpful if someone was working on open source simulations of rtms, transcranial ultrasound, and cfd of laminar flows in microfluidics | 16:15 |
| kanzure | openfoam is useful but still needs configuration to go do those things | 16:15 |
| kanzure | Steel_: also, it's about 6 weeks iirc | 16:16 |
| Steel_ | hmm, I'll be better equipped to handle the vagaries of electromagnetic simulations at some point in the mid-term | 16:16 |
| kanzure | there's the "grad student program "and the "executive program" | 16:16 |
| Steel_ | I'm going to have to learn how to do E&M finite element method for work | 16:16 |
| mag1strate | whats the difference? | 16:16 |
| Steel_ | one of them charges more and uses more buzzwords/less real words | 16:16 |
| Steel_ | and I say this as a huge fan of business academia | 16:16 |
| Steel_ | Also, I'm tempted to hunt down some motherfuckers at RPI | 16:19 |
| mag1strate | hmm...they should probably make something for younger people | 16:19 |
| Steel_ | our fucking STS department is full of 'b-b-but transhumanism is bad' types | 16:19 |
| kanzure | why? young people don't have money | 16:19 |
| Steel_ | mag1strate: Webinar series? | 16:20 |
| mag1strate | their parents do... | 16:20 |
| kanzure | i mean, i agree there should be a transhumanist bootcamp- i'm willing to throw it together- but nobody would be able to pay it | 16:20 |
| Steel_ | like spacecamp? | 16:20 |
| kanzure | and their parents wouldn't be convinced | 16:20 |
| Steel_ | you'd need shit equivalently cool to spacecamp | 16:20 |
| yashgaroth | computercamp! | 16:20 |
| Steel_ | there are computer camps | 16:20 |
| mag1strate | no | 16:20 |
| mag1strate | TRANSHUMANIST BOOT CAMPS | 16:20 |
| Steel_ | what does that INVOLVE? | 16:20 |
| mag1strate | TRANSHUMANIST COMPUTER BOOT CAMPS | 16:20 |
| yashgaroth | how about everyone who's under 30 and doesn't have silicon valley money meets up and gets drunk | 16:20 |
| mag1strate | you know...like transhumanism and stuff... | 16:20 |
| Steel_ | kanzure, what would you teach at a summer camp and how much would you charge? | 16:20 |
| mag1strate | lol | 16:21 |
| Steel_ | yashgaroth: You, me, La Jolla bars, april? | 16:21 |
| eudoxia | I have a feeling transhumanist boot camp would be a shack in the middle of the woods full of computers. After a few weeks they'd kick down the door thinking we're plotting to crack nuclear launch codes | 16:21 |
| yashgaroth | hells yeah steel | 16:21 |
| Steel_ | Sweet, anyone else in the SD area to come with? | 16:21 |
| eudoxia | alternatively the accumulated was heat & programmer sweat kills us all | 16:21 |
| kanzure | Steel_: molecular biology, genetic engineering, synthetic biology, analog and digital electronics, lots of software, and machine shop skills | 16:21 |
| mag1strate | I guess, but I believe that it will have more to do with the idea | 16:21 |
| yashgaroth | I have no idea, but we could fly people in | 16:21 |
| Steel_ | ehhh, $$ | 16:22 |
| yashgaroth | okay we'll bus them in | 16:22 |
| mag1strate | we could, but do you know of many kids that know what transhumanism is? | 16:22 |
| Steel_ | kanzure: Could you show those skills easily in a summer camp, and have people do shit that actually has a visible effect? | 16:22 |
| Steel_ | I don't know if this is plausible, but something like insert that stupid glow in the dark dna into drosophilia or something stupid like that? | 16:22 |
| kanzure | unfortunately, "ethics" is cooler | 16:22 |
| yashgaroth | not everyone needs to know every field, as long as we know enough to identify where collaboration would be useful | 16:22 |
| kanzure | well, i do have one way this might work | 16:23 |
| mag1strate | Well I think any transhumanist idea requires collaboration | 16:23 |
| kanzure | at the moment software companies are paying a shitload in recruiting fees | 16:23 |
| kanzure | like $20k/head | 16:23 |
| kanzure | so you could possibly tie it in to that | 16:23 |
| Steel_ | That would require it to be a college thing. | 16:23 |
| mag1strate | We can't make it that expensive though... | 16:23 |
| kanzure | mag1strate: no the company pays the $20k | 16:23 |
| mag1strate | oh | 16:23 |
| kanzure | usually 10-20% of their salary | 16:24 |
| kanzure | and no it's not a college thing | 16:24 |
| kanzure | look at hackruiter or thoughtbot's training program | 16:24 |
| kanzure | http://www.hackruiter.com/ | 16:24 |
| kanzure | basically it's "come live with us for a few months and hack on software, oh and get a job later" | 16:25 |
| Steel_ | I should try to schmooze my way into Rush Holt's cirle of acquaintances and get us a senator sponsor :P | 16:25 |
| mag1strate | is this for kids? | 16:25 |
| kanzure | mag1strate: it's for anyone who has some programming chops | 16:25 |
| mag1strate | oh | 16:25 |
| Steel_ | kanzure: what about government funding? | 16:26 |
| kanzure | i don't want to chase that carrot | 16:26 |
| kanzure | darpa funding is a pain in the butt | 16:26 |
| Steel_ | was thinking more DOE | 16:27 |
| yashgaroth | or .mil | 16:27 |
| Steel_ | I'll be working on .mil while I"m in dc. | 16:27 |
| kanzure | yes we know you like to talk that up | 16:27 |
| mag1strate | I highly doubt any gov funding | 16:27 |
| mag1strate | would come our way | 16:27 |
| eudoxia | I'm with mag1strate on this one | 16:28 |
| Steel_ | I may fail, but I'll try. | 16:28 |
| Steel_ | *and get myself put on the same watchlists as Kanzure is on | 16:28 |
| yashgaroth | well goddamnit what about all these rich fucks in silicon valley then | 16:28 |
| mag1strate | THe cool guys watchlist | 16:28 |
| roksprok | didn't halcyon molecular get gov funding? | 16:28 |
| roksprok | or some type of equipment grant at least? | 16:28 |
| kanzure | yes halcyon got 1.2M or something from NIH | 16:28 |
| kanzure | and 30M from pete and elon | 16:29 |
| Steel_ | yashgaroth: If I can convince my friend to talk to her boss, I'm sure we'd get some funding from there. | 16:29 |
| Steel_ | But ugh. | 16:29 |
| yashgaroth | isn't thiel gonna be even richer than balls after that FB IPO? I mean come on | 16:29 |
| kanzure | yes he put in $500k and is getting out $2.3B apparently | 16:30 |
| Steel_ | hahahaha | 16:30 |
| yashgaroth | capitalism! | 16:30 |
| kanzure | pete runs "breakout labs" but they want like 20% of your revenue or a very big stake in your intellectual properties | 16:30 |
| Steel_ | kanzure, what are your political beliefs again? or do you not talk about them | 16:31 |
| kanzure | what particular beliefs are you interested in | 16:31 |
| Steel_ | economic/military/government size, mostly | 16:31 |
| kanzure | for what purpose? | 16:31 |
| Steel_ | curiosity? | 16:32 |
| Steel_ | you're an interesting person | 16:32 |
| kanzure | no that's not what i mean | 16:33 |
| kanzure | i mean size for doing what | 16:33 |
| Steel_ | do you believe in global military intervention/standing military forces in other countries/nuclear stockpiles? | 16:33 |
| kanzure | yes i believe it happens | 16:33 |
| Steel_ | what do you believe 'should' happen? | 16:34 |
| eudoxia | I don't know who's trolling who | 16:34 |
| Steel_ | I dunno | 16:34 |
| Steel_ | I think I get what he's saying | 16:34 |
| Steel_ | and sorta agree | 16:34 |
| Steel_ | 'this is how it is, why bother being idealistic about this issue'? | 16:34 |
| kanzure | what? | 16:34 |
| kanzure | no not at all | 16:34 |
| kanzure | give me a situation and tell me what my resources are, and i'll consider my strategy | 16:34 |
| Steel_ | How would you handle America's situation | 16:35 |
| Steel_ | right now | 16:35 |
| kanzure | i don't know what you're asking :( | 16:35 |
| mag1strate | lol thats not an easy question | 16:35 |
| Steel_ | Bah :P | 16:36 |
| mag1strate | I think he means how would you handle the current economic criss in the united states | 16:36 |
| mag1strate | or maybe the one in Europe | 16:36 |
| mag1strate | whichever you would know more about | 16:36 |
| kanzure | economic crisis? but we were talking about military strategy i think :( | 16:38 |
| Steel_ | it all ties in together no? | 16:38 |
| Steel_ | how you know when kanzure is trolling: he uses emotes | 16:38 |
| kanzure | not trolling | 16:39 |
| mag1strate | they are tied | 16:39 |
| mag1strate | because military spending and strategy go together | 16:39 |
| mag1strate | especially with the precidents we use our military with our money | 16:39 |
| mag1strate | sorry not precidents, i meant doctrines | 16:40 |
| mag1strate | that might not make sense | 16:40 |
| mag1strate | what I mean is that different military doctrines require certain costs | 16:40 |
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| kanzure | delinquentme: hey you want a simple paper to do? | 16:41 |
| kanzure | delinquentme: do gene sequence length histograms/frequency comparisons | 16:41 |
| delinquentme | simple paper? | 16:41 |
| kanzure | for various organisms from ncbi | 16:41 |
| mag1strate | those cost can effect the economy of a nation | 16:41 |
| delinquentme | kanzure, so you're saying take assembled gene sequences and essentially plot them | 16:42 |
| kanzure | i think economy is silly and there should be mission-driven sovereign technologically-self-reproducing/forking societies instead | 16:42 |
| kanzure | delinquentme: their lengths | 16:42 |
| kanzure | yes. | 16:42 |
| delinquentme | yeah | 16:42 |
| delinquentme | Hmmm | 16:42 |
| delinquentme | that definitely sounds doable | 16:42 |
| kanzure | i'm sure somenoe has done this before.. but i can't find it, and it's a useful thing to do anyway | 16:42 |
| delinquentme | though just today i got jython accepting input from python | 16:42 |
| Steel_ | brb | 16:43 |
| kanzure | hrmm a continuous flow artificial heart | 16:44 |
| yashgaroth | and how to generate electricity from food in an artificial organ to power it | 16:45 |
| kanzure | probably some electron-doning thing involving bacteria | 16:45 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/bio/Bug%20juice%20-%20harvesting%20electricity%20with%20microorganisms.pdf | 16:45 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/bio/Electricity%20produced%20by%20geobacter%20sulfurreducens%20attached%20to%20electrodes.pdf | 16:45 |
| yashgaroth | hey man, electric eels figured it out a while ago, fuck solar panels when you can plug trees into the grid and get DC power | 16:46 |
| kanzure | geobacter sulfurreducens | 16:46 |
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| kanzure | um i never checked into this | 16:48 |
| kanzure | but how much would you need to charge, say, a 2500 mA battery | 16:49 |
| yashgaroth | I have no idea, something that complex is all second wave biotech | 16:49 |
| kanzure | "electricigens" oh god | 16:49 |
| kanzure | i guess that's not the worst possible name | 16:50 |
| yashgaroth | electrocytes brah | 16:50 |
| kanzure | hah | 16:50 |
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| Steel_ | back | 16:53 |
| mag1strate | So steel did you need help funding adverts for reddit? | 16:55 |
| Steel_ | no | 16:55 |
| Steel_ | throw your money at projects | 16:55 |
| Steel_ | for people in here | 16:55 |
| mag1strate | ok | 16:55 |
| Steel_ | or your own | 16:55 |
| mag1strate | new to this channel | 16:56 |
| Steel_ | haha | 16:56 |
| mag1strate | I didn't know you guys funded each other sometimes | 16:56 |
| mag1strate | lol | 16:56 |
| Steel_ | they don't much | 16:56 |
| Steel_ | but kanzure is right about some things | 16:56 |
| Steel_ | let me waste my money and not other people's | 16:56 |
| Steel_ | it also depends on your budget | 16:57 |
| Steel_ | it might be useful to have someone start trying home open manufacturing with titanium | 16:57 |
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| kanzure | there are a lot of projects that are accessible in the <$10k range that people don't do because, well, they aren't aware | 16:57 |
| mag1strate | that would be pretty expensive don't you thing | 16:57 |
| mag1strate | think | 16:57 |
| Steel_ | mag1strate: nope | 16:58 |
| Steel_ | there are some home SLA setups coming out in march | 16:58 |
| Steel_ | and you can do a titanium powder i photopolymer resin | 16:58 |
| Steel_ | *in | 16:58 |
| Steel_ | then sinter it away | 16:58 |
| eudoxia | the DIY STM is under $100 bucks | 16:58 |
| eudoxia | or something | 16:58 |
| mag1strate | jeez | 16:58 |
| mag1strate | that isn't bad | 16:59 |
| kanzure | however it comes with a caveat that you sorta need to know what you're doing | 16:59 |
| kanzure | which is fine | 16:59 |
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| eudoxia | dammit | 16:59 |
| mag1strate | I think alot of projects require that lol | 16:59 |
| Steel_ | mag1strate: the home titanium manufacturing would be worthwhile from a bioactive materials perspective | 16:59 |
| mag1strate | My specialty is with polymers not metals | 17:00 |
| mag1strate | :( | 17:00 |
| * delinquentme armitrage III | 17:00 | |
| Steel_ | mag1strate: it's metals in a polymer | 17:00 |
| kanzure | mag1strate: really... what types of polymers | 17:00 |
| mag1strate | regular monomers so far such as PP PE PC and others | 17:00 |
| mag1strate | mostly with additives | 17:01 |
| mag1strate | and nano spinning | 17:01 |
| kanzure | oh good | 17:01 |
| kanzure | i'm doing some pdms shit soon | 17:01 |
| mag1strate | for what? | 17:02 |
| kanzure | microfluidic devices. | 17:02 |
| mag1strate | Thats cool | 17:03 |
| Steel_ | I read some papers on stimulating mixing in microfluidic channels | 17:04 |
| mag1strate | what are you using the devices for? | 17:04 |
| kanzure | dna synthesis | 17:04 |
| kanzure | Steel_: stimulating or simulating | 17:04 |
| Steel_ | stimulating | 17:04 |
| kanzure | ok. bumpy edges, weird flow angles ;) | 17:04 |
| Steel_ | straight devices | 17:04 |
| Steel_ | http://www.cns.gatech.edu/~roman/pdf/loc_06.pdf you prob already have this | 17:06 |
| Steel_ | It was a (fruitless) path I chased for part of my thesis | 17:08 |
| Steel_ | besides openfoam there's also openlb | 17:09 |
| Steel_ | kanzure, are there any devices like emotiv but better out yet? | 17:13 |
| kanzure | you'd have to build it yourself. | 17:14 |
| kanzure | i don't really recommend eeg though | 17:14 |
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| yash | whoops | 17:14 |
| Steel_ | why not, kanz? | 17:15 |
| Steel_ | p300 is way worse | 17:16 |
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| Mokbortolan_ | Steel_: emotiv is the best! ... kind of a pain to use though | 17:28 |
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| Steel_ | fuck. | 17:28 |
| Steel_ | my friend on facebook, when I mentioned transhumanism | 17:29 |
| Steel_ | goes 'Never heard of it--looked it up, it's like the singularity?' | 17:29 |
| Steel_ | mooootherfucker | 17:29 |
| Steel_ | Mokbortolan_: how well trained is your system? | 17:29 |
| yashgaroth | ehh, better than 'oh like from half-life 2?' | 17:29 |
| Steel_ | ehhhh | 17:31 |
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| Steel_ | I wonder how hard it would be to make a diy blood tester | 17:36 |
| yashgaroth | testing for what | 17:36 |
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| Steel_ | that's basically a thought--how many things could you test for with a portable device? | 17:37 |
| Steel_ | like, how does that scale? | 17:37 |
| yashgaroth | well, if it's something that'll bind to an antibody, you can test as many as you want with a good detector | 17:38 |
| Steel_ | another question would be what are the most important things to keep track of if you wanted to monitor the 'most important' for good functioning of the body | 17:38 |
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| Steel_ | a third would be where I could put a permanent blood monitor that wouldn't compromise structural integrity while lifting heavy weights | 17:44 |
| yashgaroth | you mean checking stuff like creatine kinase that gets released from damaged muscle? or checking your cholesterol | 17:45 |
| Steel_ | all of the above? :P | 17:45 |
| kanzure | aptamer/antibody assays still require some sort of imaging | 17:45 |
| kanzure | or sometimes you can do electrical detection i guess of binding events | 17:46 |
| kanzure | a better plan would be to just take blood samples at different points | 17:46 |
| yashgaroth | not without shoving a biacore into yourself | 17:46 |
| Steel_ | :( | 17:47 |
| yashgaroth | but yes taking timepoint samples would be much easier and accurate-r | 17:47 |
| Steel_ | also wondering how hard it would be to synthesize pure flavonoids | 17:48 |
| yashgaroth | stuff like blood pressure and heart rate would be a nice project to DIY though | 17:48 |
| Steel_ | http://www.physorg.com/news/2012-02-mitosis-mystery-chromosomes-align-perfectly.html | 17:48 |
| yashgaroth | what flavonoids do you need that you can't get from plants? purity is still tough with organic synthesis | 17:50 |
| Steel_ | it's more that the concentration is pretty terrible | 17:50 |
| Steel_ | 25% tops, from what I was looking at | 17:50 |
| yashgaroth | so just use 4x as much | 17:51 |
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| d3nd3 | yop | 17:52 |
| d3nd3 | yo | 17:52 |
| Steel_ | yashgaroth: I'm looking at megadosing | 17:53 |
| Steel_ | I'm working on making a flavanoid drink | 17:53 |
| d3nd3 | I HAVE A QUESTION | 17:53 |
| d3nd3 | "i have a question" <-- no one likes capitals right ? | 17:53 |
| d3nd3 | and the likes of people must be respected | 17:54 |
| yashgaroth | better to have extra plant crap in the drink than byproducts of o-chem | 17:54 |
| Steel_ | yashgaroth: It's already mostly extracts | 17:54 |
| kanzure | yashgaroth: i can't drink plant! that's like.. drinking vegetables | 17:54 |
| Steel_ | 25% anthocyanin, etc. | 17:54 |
| yashgaroth | I feel ya kanzure | 17:54 |
| d3nd3 | does anyone know here if there are any patterns in the dna code sequence of G T C A which correlate to the total structure of the organism it codes ... yes so a cell replicates through mitosis ... but how doe sit know if the cell is in the right position ???? and everything is looking perfect from the 3d perspective ? Does anyone know the answer to this fairly straight forward question? | 17:55 |
| kanzure | biology is not straightforward | 17:55 |
| d3nd3 | yes it is | 17:55 |
| yashgaroth | what part of that was the "fairly straight forward question" | 17:55 |
| Steel_ | looool. | 17:55 |
| Steel_ | biology is straightforward in the sense that 'high level complex systems' are straightforward | 17:56 |
| yashgaroth | you must read fast dende, you finished that textbook already? | 17:56 |
| kanzure | i vote we call him "little green" | 17:56 |
| yashgaroth | concur | 17:56 |
| kanzure | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hAGXUPqF8Q | 17:57 |
| d3nd3 | the reasons behind my belief are not important ! | 17:57 |
| kanzure | ^little green | 17:57 |
| Steel_ | d3nd3: If you're serious about this. | 17:57 |
| Steel_ | Don't ask us, try to find the answer yourself first | 17:57 |
| Steel_ | Oh god, I sound like my advisor | 17:57 |
| Steel_ | fuck. | 17:57 |
| Steel_ | someone hand me a shotgun. | 17:57 |
| kanzure | d3nd3: cells are not built in "3D" | 17:57 |
| kanzure | it's more about concentration gradients | 17:57 |
| kanzure | you might be inclined to ask, "what the fuck is a concentration gradient" | 18:00 |
| d3nd3 | yes you are right, they are 2d. My bad | 18:02 |
| kanzure | what? | 18:02 |
| kanzure | no gradients can be in any number of spatial dimensios | 18:02 |
| kanzure | *dimensios | 18:02 |
| kanzure | *dimensions | 18:02 |
| d3nd3 | whats wrong? are you holding that information close to your center ? | 18:03 |
| d3nd3 | have trouble letting go of it ? | 18:03 |
| kanzure | what? | 18:04 |
| yashgaroth | hahahahahaha | 18:04 |
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| Steel_ | what the fuck | 18:07 |
| Steel_ | are you sure you're english? | 18:07 |
| Steel_ | gradients can be in N dimensions, for abstract problems O_o | 18:08 |
| d3nd3 | i know the answer to all whats, i just don't have the ability to convert newly created combination of letters into an already existing answer to a what. Besides, i do know that you are having trouble to share your linkage with a newly created pattern of letters to someone who is interested in knowing something about a system which plays the most important role in his life , and doesn't take this topic as a game | 18:08 |
| Steel_ | high level control systems use gradients in 10k dimensions heh | 18:08 |
| yashgaroth | I'm not sure he's a human, much less english | 18:08 |
| Steel_ | d3nd3, bro, I mean this with the greatest of sincerity: read the fucking book yashgaroth recommended, come here afterward. | 18:09 |
| yashgaroth | seriously, nothing in that book is a waste of time to know | 18:09 |
| Steel_ | I'll go through it when I have time :P | 18:10 |
| Steel_ | right now it's all vortex mechanics and EM theory for me | 18:10 |
| yashgaroth | it's cool, I'm never gonna read a textbook on the stuff you do | 18:10 |
| d3nd3 | you don't feel me. | 18:11 |
| Steel_ | d3nd3: Not in the fucking slightest. | 18:11 |
| yashgaroth | dende: I'll help you if you can answer me this question: has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like? | 18:12 |
| yashgaroth | you seem the best person to be able to answer that | 18:12 |
| d3nd3 | :) | 18:13 |
| Steel_ | I can't remember the proper answer to that one, yashgaroth :P | 18:15 |
| yashgaroth | it's too long to post here, but it's good | 18:15 |
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| d3nd3 | i'll answer you , then you will help me, if you can reply to this answer : english can be understood with words which do not have to be long and connected, if you can not understand a language which is not connected well and does not have long words then you really should not be replying to me at all , since you would clearly have less of what ever it is that you are claiming i have less of in the first instance, Wil | 18:16 |
| kanzure | do you want our help or not? | 18:17 |
| yashgaroth | he's right, I really shouldn't be replying to him :V | 18:17 |
| Steel_ | Good lord. | 18:18 |
| kanzure | btw there's many "long words" in biology.. you will have to learn them | 18:18 |
| Steel_ | I guess I should retitle my thesis 'building a way to use computer to make a fake computer method of using electricity to print out really small drops' | 18:18 |
| Steel_ | or I could call it 'Simulating Electrohydrodynamic Jet Printing via Vortex Rings and Relevant Scaling Laws' | 18:18 |
| Steel_ | .... | 18:18 |
| alfalfa | hi | 18:19 |
| alfalfa | whats up | 18:19 |
| yashgaroth | guten tag bro | 18:19 |
| kanzure | Steel_: too simple; the title should be the abstract | 18:19 |
| Steel_ | Hahah. | 18:19 |
| eudoxia | The abstract should read "Probably not" | 18:19 |
| Steel_ | in reality, I'll prob call it whatever my adviser tells me to call it | 18:20 |
| alfalfa | lol the guys flame about the simpler solution to speaking english? | 18:20 |
| kanzure | alfalfa: nope.. d3nd3 is just mad | 18:20 |
| alfalfa | why? | 18:20 |
| d3nd3 | if there are any mature people left in the room | 18:20 |
| d3nd3 | does anyone know here if there are any patterns in the dna code sequence of G T C A which correlate to the total structure of the organism it codes ... yes so a cell replicates through mitosis ... but how doe sit know if the cell is in the right position ???? and everything is looking perfect from the 3d perspective ? Does anyone know the answer to this fairly straight forward question? | 18:20 |
| alfalfa | madness is often confused eith excentrism | 18:20 |
| kanzure | we already told you :( | 18:20 |
| yashgaroth | the irony burns | 18:21 |
| kanzure | d3nd3: why do you not like our answers? | 18:21 |
| alfalfa | lol u probably not really telling him, rather blowing up ur chest and pumping ur ego xD | 18:21 |
| d3nd3 | they don't want to let go | 18:22 |
| d3nd3 | why are they here | 18:22 |
| Steel_ | what the fuck | 18:22 |
| d3nd3 | i don't understand | 18:22 |
| kanzure | who's ego are you pumping? | 18:22 |
| kanzure | sorry, what?? | 18:22 |
| yashgaroth | how old are you two | 18:22 |
| Steel_ | d3nd3: openwetware.org | 18:22 |
| eudoxia | falmoot & alter egos, I see | 18:22 |
| alfalfa | its allways like that... | 18:22 |
| alfalfa | if u ask question here | 18:22 |
| kanzure | yes, we help you to the answer | 18:22 |
| Steel_ | Ask a stupid question, get a stupid answer. | 18:22 |
| alfalfa | u get big words in ur face lol, rather than explanations | 18:22 |
| kanzure | but you don't ilke the answers.. | 18:22 |
| kanzure | ok maybe you should ask questions to understand the answers | 18:22 |
| yashgaroth | eudoxia: it's actually worse, at least falmot was funny | 18:22 |
| kanzure | do you know what a gradient is? | 18:22 |
| alfalfa | asking me that is your wicked way of disrespecting, kanzure ? | 18:23 |
| kanzure | no? | 18:23 |
| alfalfa | im sure you know oO | 18:23 |
| kanzure | no, i don't know if you know the word 'gradient' | 18:23 |
| kanzure | i am not spychic | 18:23 |
| d3nd3 | of course we know what it is | 18:23 |
| kanzure | *psychic | 18:23 |
| d3nd3 | we know what everything is | 18:23 |
| alfalfa | so many no's u seem to be in denial of something | 18:23 |
| d3nd3 | we just need the linkages | 18:23 |
| alfalfa | if knowledge and science doesnt give a man the right to swagger around then what??? | 18:24 |
| Steel_ | d3nd3, I still have no fucking idea what you're asking. | 18:25 |
| kanzure | ok stop pimping your ego :) then you can continue reading 'molecular biology of the cell' | 18:25 |
| alfalfa | niveau of kindergarden is reached huh? .. in other words u saying "NO U THE ONE WITH EGO" | 18:25 |
| alfalfa | i know the language of you "grown ups" | 18:25 |
| alfalfa | its still same emotions | 18:25 |
| alfalfa | just bigger words... | 18:25 |
| kanzure | why are you fighting | 18:25 |
| alfalfa | no real growth took ever place... | 18:26 |
| kanzure | stop fighting | 18:26 |
| d3nd3 | stop hurting him* | 18:26 |
| alfalfa | im fighting for a better tomorrow | 18:26 |
| d3nd3 | it doesn't feel nice* | 18:26 |
| kanzure | you've spent 5min talking about your ego, this is not interesting to ##hplusroadmap | 18:26 |
| uniqanomaly | tl;dr anyone? | 18:26 |
| d3nd3 | hypocrit ! | 18:26 |
| alfalfa | lol he put the same statement 1 min ago there | 18:26 |
| eudoxia | the lobster uploads from Accelerando were more interesting to talk to | 18:26 |
| Steel_ | uniqanomaly: Crazy, child, manchild, or not english speaking | 18:27 |
| Steel_ | oh yes, possibly lobsters | 18:27 |
| yashgaroth | fuckin' looool | 18:27 |
| uniqanomaly | Steel_: maybe he's uploaded lobster | 18:27 |
| yashgaroth | it's the most cogent theory yet | 18:27 |
| d3nd3 | they don't know how the organims are forming 3d structure | 18:28 |
| d3nd3 | and can't explain it | 18:28 |
| d3nd3 | in skeleton form | 18:28 |
| kanzure | they form 3d structures because of gradients | 18:28 |
| kanzure | not because of a 3d map | 18:28 |
| kanzure | stop asking | 18:28 |
| d3nd3 | that is not knowledge | 18:28 |
| d3nd3 | that is nothing | 18:28 |
| Steel_ | kanzure, what are channel rules on being insulting? | 18:29 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/bio/Bacterial%20morphology%20-%20why%20have%20different%20shapes.pdf | 18:29 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/bio/Bacterial%20shape.pdfhttp://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/bio/Bacterial%20shape.pdf | 18:29 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/bio/To%20shape%20a%20cell%20-%20an%20inquiry%20into%20the%20causes%20of%20morphogenesis%20of%20microorganisms%20-%201990.pdf | 18:29 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/bio/The%20selective%20value%20of%20bacterial%20shape.pdf | 18:29 |
| kanzure | read those then complain. | 18:29 |
| d3nd3 | i hope that it does not make you feel better each time you pasted each one | 18:30 |
| alfalfa | rofl | 18:30 |
| kanzure | are you here to learn? | 18:30 |
| alfalfa | feels like hes haveing a big troll face now | 18:30 |
| alfalfa | he acts like hes helping , but really he has secret agenda? | 18:30 |
| yashgaroth | guys guys why can't we just teach them the entirety of biology over IRC? | 18:30 |
| Steel_ | we have to be being trolled | 18:30 |
| d3nd3 | he is his dna. if that makes him a monster. then he has little say in the matter. | 18:31 |
| kanzure | that does not sound transhumanist | 18:31 |
| kanzure | predeterminism? holy fuck guys | 18:31 |
| kanzure | yashgaroth: btw, "To shape a cell" is actually a fun read | 18:32 |
| Steel_ | determinism is awesome :D | 18:32 |
| Steel_ | though incredibly impractical :P | 18:32 |
| yashgaroth | link? | 18:32 |
| kanzure | yashgaroth: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/bio/To%20shape%20a%20cell%20-%20an%20inquiry%20into%20the%20causes%20of%20morphogenesis%20of%20microorganisms%20-%201990.pdf | 18:32 |
| yashgaroth | not exactly light reading, but I'll take a look | 18:33 |
| d3nd3 | secondly, is anyone interested to rocket to the planet Mars with me, if you promise to be mannered and polite around me and that i have natural rights to be the King of the planet. We will teraform the planet , starting first inside a sealed atmosphere, using solid transparent material to allow light through | 18:34 |
| Molybdenum | where did all the trolls come from. | 18:34 |
| eudoxia | I want to believe | 18:36 |
| eudoxia | that they are actually uploaded lobsters | 18:36 |
| Molybdenum | *xfiles theme* | 18:36 |
| d3nd3 | i'm quite sick of this planet, not going to list the complete list here, although i'm sure most of you are aware of some things you know is completely inefficent for improving making change as a species | 18:36 |
| eudoxia | so far they fit the lobsters in Accelerando, since they apparently want to go off-planet | 18:37 |
| yashgaroth | dende, what's your opinion on butter sauce? | 18:37 |
| alfalfa | i come with rocket | 18:40 |
| alfalfa | mars house out of glas | 18:40 |
| d3nd3 | i don't even have to ask you, i already know how the cells are forming shapes | 18:48 |
| d3nd3 | its in the dna, everything is in there, thats the information | 18:48 |
| Steel_ | I'm watting so hard you've never watted a wat like this before. | 18:49 |
| Molybdenum | this sounds like the premise of a bad sci-fi comicbook. | 18:49 |
| eudoxia | it's slowly shaping into the plot of a David Zindell novelç | 18:50 |
| eudoxia | I can feel it | 18:50 |
| kanzure | it's very incomplete information, nature fills in the rest because of physics | 18:50 |
| Steel_ | eudoxia: The nature of everything is found in the smallest thing, yet not. | 18:50 |
| Steel_ | You have to look at it...holistically | 18:50 |
| Steel_ | *does math in head* | 18:50 |
| Steel_ | *teleports* | 18:50 |
| kanzure | yep pretty much.. | 18:50 |
| Molybdenum | *nanomachines* | 18:50 |
| kanzure | Steel_: don't forget to visit the internet oracle | 18:50 |
| eudoxia | yes... truly | 18:51 |
| Steel_ | No, zindell doesn't use nearly as much nanomachines. | 18:51 |
| Steel_ | He's all about magic math | 18:51 |
| Steel_ | and spirituality in transhumanism | 18:51 |
| d3nd3 | that isn't good english, it would be better if you typed with smaller words, more common ones and also make better logic, clearer for others to understand and make sense of what you type | 18:51 |
| eudoxia | the manifold bruh | 18:51 |
| yashgaroth | the answer, its...in...the DNA | 18:51 |
| kanzure | hm? neverness had tons of nano-related biology machine things | 18:51 |
| kanzure | yashgaroth: have you read neverness? | 18:51 |
| yashgaroth | nope | 18:51 |
| kanzure | i found it somewhat more entertaining than accelerando | 18:51 |
| eudoxia | it starts getting sort of ehh after The Broken God though | 18:51 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/docs/Zindell,%20David%20-%20Neverness%20(v1.0).txt | 18:51 |
| Molybdenum | he keeps making the weird comments about word usage, and it keeps making me think of NewSpeak from 1984... | 18:52 |
| eudoxia | the series as a whole I mean | 18:52 |
| kanzure | yashgaroth: it's basically a lot of the same stolen scifi that orion's arm was based on | 18:52 |
| yashgaroth | oh cool | 18:53 |
| eudoxia | but with more math | 18:53 |
| eudoxia | and less monopoles everywhere | 18:53 |
| yashgaroth | aww I hate math | 18:53 |
| delinquentme | ^^^ | 18:53 |
| delinquentme | GOOD NIGHT! | 18:53 |
| eudoxia | don't worry, it's homeopathic "feel the interconnectedness" math | 18:53 |
| yashgaroth | that's why I got into bio | 18:53 |
| delinquentme | bc math is cool | 18:53 |
| delinquentme | </3 | 18:53 |
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| yashgaroth | I've got quite a backlog of things to read as it is, but it's in the queue | 18:55 |
| d3nd3 | don't waste your knowledge, if that is what you believe you have | 18:56 |
| d3nd3 | make use of it | 18:56 |
| mag1strate | yashgaroth: YOU DON'T LIKE MATH?!? | 18:59 |
| yashgaroth | omgz | 19:00 |
| kanzure | "Yes, chance. What chance does a young fool of a pilot have of | 19:01 |
| kanzure | discovering the secret of life? Where will you look? In some safe place, | 19:01 |
| kanzure | no doubt, where you've no chance of finding anything at all." | 19:01 |
| kanzure | "Perhaps I'll search where bitter and jaded master pilots are afraid to." | 19:01 |
| kanzure | "And where would that be?" he asked. "Beneath the folds of your mother's robes?" | 19:01 |
| kanzure | ouch. | 19:02 |
| eudoxia | Soli was a bro | 19:02 |
| kanzure | a brogrammer | 19:02 |
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| mag1strate | yashgaroth: JK btw | 19:12 |
| yashgaroth | it's not like math raped me when I was a child, I just don't like doing it for fun | 19:12 |
| mag1strate | lol yeah I know what you mena | 19:15 |
| mag1strate | mean | 19:15 |
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| yashgaroth | I got through calc up to multivariable, and then I was like 'wait this is why we invented computers' | 19:16 |
| mag1strate | Yeah I know what you mena | 19:17 |
| mag1strate | mena | 19:17 |
| mag1strate | shit | 19:17 |
| mag1strate | i cant spell | 19:17 |
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| d3nd3 | when will you fucking humans be happy and satisfied with what you have and who you are | 20:03 |
| yashgaroth | :3 | 20:03 |
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| d3nd3 | i thought this movement was about that ? but it seems that we even fail at that too, since we can't even stop being so selfish | 20:05 |
| kanzure | are you reading those papers/documents? | 20:06 |
| d3nd3 | i read everything, and how old will i be when i have done that ? | 20:06 |
| yashgaroth | 12? | 20:06 |
| kanzure | 0xFFFF3141 years old | 20:06 |
| d3nd3 | do you believe you know the best path to enlightenment, or transcendalment ? | 20:07 |
| kanzure | transdonglement? | 20:07 |
| yashgaroth | transcendanglement | 20:07 |
| d3nd3 | is this a mockery, or for the lolz | 20:07 |
| kanzure | d3nd3: what is your native language? we need to speak to you in it | 20:08 |
| d3nd3 | namekian | 20:08 |
| d3nd3 | or rather, namekenese | 20:09 |
| d3nd3 | haha | 20:09 |
| d3nd3 | you don't know it | 20:09 |
| kanzure | hiindi? | 20:09 |
| kanzure | *hindi | 20:09 |
| d3nd3 | since i am the only namek on this planet | 20:09 |
| kanzure | kashmiri? | 20:10 |
| yashgaroth | urdu | 20:10 |
| kanzure | punjabi? | 20:10 |
| d3nd3 | i don't think that you are achieving anything here | 20:10 |
| d3nd3 | i am serious | 20:10 |
| strangewarp | d3nd3: So long as we are transhumanists, we will be simultaneously appreciative of what we have, and unsatisfied that we don't have what we don't have. Selfishness may or may not be persent, but is irrelevant, since the goal is to create technology that would help everyone. Age doesn't matter; what matters is being able to fucking chill and be concretely productive in ways that are verifiably true. | 20:10 |
| kanzure | i am trying to communicate with you | 20:10 |
| kanzure | strangewarp: don't feed the trolls | 20:10 |
| d3nd3 | come stop wasting your time, come join myself and alfalfa on bigger and better things | 20:10 |
| strangewarp | (And I know I am a bit of a hypocrite saying that, since I'm the token arts guy..) | 20:10 |
| strangewarp | kanzure: aw okay :( | 20:10 |
| d3nd3 | strangewarp: please feed the trolls | 20:10 |
| -!- mode/##hplusroadmap [+o kanzure] by ChanServ | 20:11 | |
| yashgaroth | heh | 20:11 |
| Helleshin | out comes the big stick | 20:11 |
| * d3nd3 dodges | 20:11 | |
| @kanzure | seriously, what's your language? | 20:12 |
| d3nd3 | strangewarp: thank you for your opinion, but just like my statement which you tried so desperately to challenge with a thrust of righteousness. my opinion was never fixed, it was put there to raise awareness, it was never incorrect just as your opinion put there is not incorrect too , but actually i think you already know that, i type it just in case you don't know it, strangewarp there are many small improvements w | 20:13 |
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| alfalfa | lol | 20:16 |
| sylph_mako | Talking without conviction. Sure ogre sign right there. | 20:16 |
| strangewarp | that is one heck of a crazy backlog | 20:18 |
| @kanzure | yep | 20:27 |
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| d3nd3 | please update the join note with : be chilled else you are not welcome here , sorry i never took that for granted since i am not a closed minded sheep as most of your other "Followers" .. i use that word because it feels like you own this movement, when really its nothing to do with inidividuals | 20:29 |
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| d3nd3 | do as you are told ! | 21:05 |
| Steel_ | what the fuck | 21:07 |
| d3nd3 | Steel_: is that justified? | 21:07 |
| Steel_ | yes. | 21:07 |
| Steel_ | yes it is. | 21:07 |
| Steel_ | yashgaroth: what did I miss? | 21:08 |
| yashgaroth | nothing new | 21:08 |
| d3nd3 | yashgaroth: update me too please | 21:08 |
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| yashgaroth | kanzure's a good man, I'd have banned them by now | 21:08 |
| Steel_ | did d3nd3 say anything else amusing? | 21:08 |
| yashgaroth | maybe, but it's too incoherent to tell | 21:09 |
| d3nd3 | yashgaroth: you should be ashamed no? thats an inevitable conclusion of your sentence ask it many times and you will see , its very important that you define the actions you can make , else you really are not in control of your life and being | 21:09 |
| yashgaroth | ^basically just shit like that | 21:09 |
| Steel_ | he's gotta be running it through a jibberish generator | 21:09 |
| yashgaroth | we've confirmed that they are actually uploaded lobster brains | 21:10 |
| Steel_ | someone get stross on the phone stat | 21:10 |
| d3nd3 | the chemicals do not allow you to be humble lol | 21:10 |
| yashgaroth | idk, sometimes it's just amusing but then they get offended at having to learn things and it degenerates quickly | 21:11 |
| Steel_ | bah | 21:12 |
| yashgaroth | I'm guessing they're 13-14, tops | 21:12 |
| Molybdenum | or severely inebriated. | 21:12 |
| roksprok | i'm pretty sure d3nd3 has schizophrenia | 21:13 |
| roksprok | namekian is something from dragonball z | 21:13 |
| roksprok | and thats basically what schizophreniacs do, pick up random stuff am form it into an overarching narrative | 21:13 |
| @kanzure | roksprok: d3nd3 is "little green" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hAGXUPqF8Q | 21:14 |
| d3nd3 | our freedom is being restricted from us, we are not being who we were born to be, but yet we don't give up trying. we want to be able to speak freely and not have the logic which we put into text misinterpreted and for emotions to be fiddled with by majority of people who sit safely in exactly that, the masses. | 21:14 |
| yashgaroth | this would be a classic case study, if I gave a shit | 21:14 |
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| Molybdenum | I didn't see the namekian thing at all. | 21:14 |
| roksprok | suspicions about an outside conspiracy? | 21:15 |
| Steel_ | brb | 21:16 |
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| @kanzure | hi ianmathwiz7 | 21:27 |
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| d3nd3 | my face is down , i am a sufferer, yes, and i needed you to say it to me . -.- more fiddling pl0x | 21:30 |
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| d3nd3 | thats how you summon such lovely emotions, aww doesn't it feel nice to have someone who is speaking such complimentary things to you ? | 21:31 |
| d3nd3 | we are cool guys, you and i, thats why we type to each others | 21:31 |
| Stee| | ianmathwiz7, check your pms :P | 21:31 |
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| ianmathwiz7 | I don't have any pms | 21:35 |
| ianmathwiz7 | or PMS, for that matter :P | 21:36 |
| Stee| | on irc | 21:38 |
| Stee| | I sent you one | 21:38 |
| @kanzure | ianmathwiz7: private message | 21:44 |
| ianmathwiz7 | kanzure: yeah, I know what it means | 21:44 |
| Stee| | #lw is discussing how to break down telling stories for socialization into a series of premeditated story/rulesets | 21:45 |
| @kanzure | um.. what | 21:45 |
| @kanzure | who cares | 21:45 |
| Molybdenum | regarding...? | 21:50 |
| Stee| | think what PUAs do, except for conversation. | 21:51 |
| Molybdenum | Barf. | 21:51 |
| Molybdenum | I feel terrible for women that PUA garbage works on. | 21:53 |
| @kanzure | conversation isn't that hard to do | 21:53 |
| @kanzure | if you need PUA rules, you're doing something wrong | 21:53 |
| @kanzure | 1) hang out with mroe people | 21:53 |
| @kanzure | 2) get drunk with them | 21:53 |
| @kanzure | 3) hope they are infectious and you get better | 21:53 |
| @kanzure | on second thought this is probably a bad plan. | 21:58 |
| Stee| | hahaha | 21:59 |
| Stee| | if you're in dc after I move, we'll go drinking | 21:59 |
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| Molybdenum | i need to get out of missouri :| | 21:59 |
| yashgaroth | are you at least in STL? | 22:00 |
| Molybdenum | nope :| | 22:00 |
| yashgaroth | I'm so sorry | 22:00 |
| Molybdenum | that's about ...3 hr away. | 22:00 |
| @kanzure | why are you in missouri | 22:00 |
| Molybdenum | school | 22:01 |
| Molybdenum | no other reason to ever come out to this pit | 22:01 |
| strangewarp | The very fact that PUA exists means that even men who despise PUA will be treated as though they are secretly using PUA, even when they aren't trying to PU anyone | 22:04 |
| strangewarp | Thereby I despise it doubly | 22:04 |
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| @kanzure | whatever happened to the andrew hessel bieber video | 22:07 |
| @kanzure | aha | 22:10 |
| @kanzure | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRbCIduMGb0 | 22:10 |
| jrayhawk_ | d3nd3: You seem to be running up against the intuitive limitations of thinking of DNA as the sole determinant of expression. | 22:18 |
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| @kanzure | *of function | 22:18 |
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| d3nd3 | jrayhawk_: ok thanks | 22:19 |
| @kanzure | hrm, the synthetic biology documentary passed kickstarter http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/637230479/a-documentary-film-about-synthetic-biology | 22:19 |
| jrayhawk_ | So, given a sequenced human genome, do you believe you can you produce a human cell? | 22:20 |
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| yashgaroth | no? | 22:20 |
| d3nd3 | yashgaroth: be nice | 22:21 |
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| yashgaroth | craig venter had a hard enough time making a bacterial cell, which is ~1000x smaller | 22:21 |
| d3nd3 | a human embyro stem cell ? | 22:22 |
| d3nd3 | i wouldn't think its too difficult | 22:22 |
| jrayhawk | I don't really care; any cell is interesting. | 22:22 |
| yashgaroth | however, if dna synthesis technology keeps up, I could see it being done in 10-15 years | 22:23 |
| @kanzure | a human cell does not start from a genome.. it starts from another cell | 22:23 |
| yashgaroth | same can be said for bacteria | 22:23 |
| d3nd3 | in nature it doesn't, but strictly speaking we aren't talking about nature | 22:24 |
| jrayhawk | The trouble is that the RNA is not actually inherently derived from DNA | 22:24 |
| jrayhawk | only *some* of it is. | 22:24 |
| yashgaroth | no all of it is | 22:24 |
| @kanzure | (DNA does not turn itself into a cell.) | 22:25 |
| yashgaroth | hey man, if you can synthesize a human genome, you can find the time to stick it into a cell somehow | 22:25 |
| @kanzure | sure | 22:25 |
| d3nd3 | retro viruses can easily do the reverse of transcription and form a dna from an rna | 22:25 |
| @kanzure | yashgaroth: but given a single molecule of DNA, it will not turn into a cell | 22:26 |
| yashgaroth | oh god no, but if you use venter's method of pulling the old chromosome out of the cell and putting in the new ones | 22:26 |
| @kanzure | that's not what they are talking about, yashgaroth | 22:26 |
| @kanzure | 22:20 < jrayhawk_> So, given a sequenced human genome, do you believe you can you produce a human cell? | 22:26 |
| yashgaroth | he said sequenced not synthesized | 22:27 |
| jrayhawk | I should've said "do you believe it's theoretically possible to produce a human cell" | 22:28 |
| jrayhawk | the synthesis step is not interesting for the discussion here | 22:28 |
| d3nd3 | synthesis step , but why is the synthesis step even a challenge, its becaus ethe machines are too slow or are they making errors? | 22:29 |
| yashgaroth | err you do need to assume we manage to synthesize a genome, that's the hardest part of producing a human cell | 22:29 |
| d3nd3 | lol^^ | 22:29 |
| @kanzure | yashgaroth: i still think you're not talking about the same thing, | 22:29 |
| @kanzure | d3nd3 might be under the belief that you ca use a molecule of DNA to generate a cell | 22:30 |
| jrayhawk | Well, 18 molecules, presumably | 22:30 |
| d3nd3 | lets clear it up so we know what each other are talking about, then it leaves no confusion | 22:30 |
| @kanzure | *can use | 22:30 |
| @kanzure | well, tell us d3nd3 | 22:30 |
| yashgaroth | 46, though if you're making it from scratch you can have howevermany chromosomes you want | 22:30 |
| @kanzure | yashgaroth: when you say "from scratch" you mean "using a cellular chasis" like venter | 22:31 |
| yashgaroth | yes, that would probably be necessary | 22:31 |
| yashgaroth | or at least, easier than making the entire cell as well | 22:31 |
| d3nd3 | many things are possible yes? i played lego when i was younger with bricks, i'm beginnging to realize that biology is much like this, and yet it seems nature has figured out a very efficient method, but i'm not convinced its theonly optiion for building life and we don't always have to hijack natures' processes to form things, we can do it from scratch with the components and knowleedge | 22:32 |
| jrayhawk | So, the real answer is "no, it is impossible to make a human cell with just the genome". Most DNA is not expressed, and what is expressed is controlled by the existing "running state". You need the current RNA, you need the mitochondria, you need the epigenetics, you need the eicosanoids, you need the microdna, you need existing chemical balances | 22:35 |
| jrayhawk | this shit is *really really* complicated. we don't even know how complicated it is. | 22:36 |
| jrayhawk | s/microdna/microrna/ | 22:36 |
| d3nd3 | well , yea , but they are not far to be found , hey i give you a little secret, don't take everything all like everyone knows the limits, ppl will constantly keep astonishing us for many many years to come, its an art and really best advice i can give is be imaginative and try out everything :) ... but hey your answer will be answered very soon i hope that u have a nice journey into this field and discover furitful t | 22:37 |
| @kanzure | don't forget the other running state component (physics) | 22:37 |
| Stee| | did d3nd3 ever answer his age? | 22:40 |
| d3nd3 | Stee|: this is peronsal information, but age will soon not be such an issue since the power of this technologoy will put me into eternity lol, then i won't remember an age but i bet u will want me always to have one haha, okayo hmm i tell u it" " .. i am 16 | 22:42 |
| jrayhawk | oh thank god | 22:42 |
| @kanzure | 16 is too old | 22:42 |
| @kanzure | d3nd3: what about language? | 22:42 |
| alfalfa | swagger swagger | 22:43 |
| d3nd3 | Irish, of course | 22:43 |
| @kanzure | an irish pakistani in croydon? | 22:44 |
| yashgaroth | croydon massive represent | 22:44 |
| d3nd3 | alfalfa: this hip hop song, name artist? errr forgot her name but y ty | 22:44 |
| d3nd3 | no not croydon | 22:44 |
| d3nd3 | stop looking at my hostname | 22:44 |
| d3nd3 | -.- | 22:44 |
| yashgaroth | crawley? | 22:45 |
| alfalfa | shall we really not remember age then? | 22:45 |
| d3nd3 | i am anonymous, i am 99% and we are the majority | 22:45 |
| alfalfa | there is no purpose for it i guess | 22:46 |
| alfalfa | lol we counting age only because we check when we die? | 22:46 |
| d3nd3 | na for social ridicule | 22:46 |
| @kanzure | who is ridiculing you | 22:46 |
| alfalfa | kanzure: ur ego? | 22:47 |
| d3nd3 | but the rules of this chat . . . you cannot ... be "unchilled" .. and you cannot " philosophize " and you cannot .. the list goes on and on ;) | 22:47 |
| @kanzure | you might be experiencing schizophrenic delusions of prosecution | 22:47 |
| alfalfa | proud much? :D | 22:47 |
| yashgaroth | those words are too big, they will close off again | 22:47 |
| alfalfa | ":D" <--- troll laughing BUhahahaha | 22:47 |
| d3nd3 | wait, yash, you are a professional biologist with white apron and big pay slip ... i don't think you should be communicating with self - created trolls who live in basement of mother | 22:48 |
| yashgaroth | haha, now you sound russian | 22:48 |
| alfalfa | "sound" ? | 22:49 |
| yashgaroth | p.s. kanzure is far more accomplished than I am | 22:49 |
| yashgaroth | yes, "basement of mother" | 22:49 |
| yashgaroth | sounds like a russian guy | 22:49 |
| d3nd3 | yashgaroth: signs of modesty :: note it ! | 22:49 |
| Stee| | he's still accomplished more than you | 22:49 |
| alfalfa | is accomplished? dont u use "has" there? | 22:50 |
| yashgaroth | nein | 22:50 |
| d3nd3 | Stee|: i told you my age boy, that took a certain level of trust and now you just spit it back in my eye, you vermin | 22:50 |
| d3nd3 | acomplished is a bit like achieved | 22:50 |
| Stee| | point of the matter is | 22:51 |
| Stee| | I don't think you get to say kanzure is a troll | 22:51 |
| alfalfa | but u use has when u use it with a person | 22:51 |
| d3nd3 | Stee|: Okay, your loyalties do him justice ! and me NOTHING ! its well worth it for sticking up for others, but boy don't involved in other business none of urs, he reli ain't worth all that u know | 22:51 |
| alfalfa | if something is about "it" u use is i think | 22:51 |
| Stee| | I'm laughing if you think I'm 'loyal' to kanzure | 22:52 |
| @kanzure | the point is, 16 is already old | 22:52 |
| @kanzure | if you are angry about being old, suck it up | 22:52 |
| alfalfa | why u talking about age lol | 22:52 |
| d3nd3 | ha, jealous much , x < y ... mm who is the x and who is the y XD | 22:52 |
| Stee| | wait, kanzure, is this our evening entertainment? | 22:53 |
| yashgaroth | it better be, the new walking dead was underwhelming | 22:53 |
| alfalfa | hmmmmmm | 22:53 |
| alfalfa | HMMMM | 22:53 |
| alfalfa | i think u guys talk too riddled | 22:53 |
| alfalfa | i will help others understand | 22:53 |
| @kanzure | we are not riddled | 22:53 |
| d3nd3 | fulfil a role here , translator | 22:54 |
| alfalfa | <Stee|> wait, kanzure, is this our evening entertainment? MEANS: "i am so cool and i just laugh about others" | 22:54 |
| yashgaroth | :D | 22:54 |
| alfalfa | [07:53] <@kanzure> we are not riddled MEANS: "i dont agree because i dont want to be lower on the social ranking system" | 22:54 |
| Stee| | I'm pretty fucking cool, that's true. | 22:54 |
| Stee| | it's not related to my technical achievements tho | 22:54 |
| alfalfa | <Stee|> I'm pretty fucking cool, that's true. MEANS: "i dont care about what others say, im swaggering" | 22:55 |
| * d3nd3 applauds | 22:55 | |
| Stee| | it's not swagger, it's cuban motion. | 22:55 |
| alfalfa | [07:54] <Stee|> it's not related to my technical achievements tho MEANS: "i achieve stuff and i tell it others to show off" | 22:55 |
| * d3nd3 wants more =D | 22:56 | |
| alfalfa | [07:55] <Stee|> it's not swagger, it's cuban motion. MEANS: "i just disagree and use funky word to be up in the social ranking system" | 22:56 |
| -!- alfalfa was kicked from ##hplusroadmap by kanzure [alfalfa] | 22:56 | |
| -!- d3nd3 was kicked from ##hplusroadmap by kanzure [d3nd3] | 22:56 | |
| @kanzure | i grow tired of this.. | 22:56 |
| yashgaroth | +b please | 22:56 |
| @kanzure | well, i'm not sure yet | 22:56 |
| @kanzure | i'm lame i know | 22:56 |
| yashgaroth | you have more faith in humanity than I | 22:56 |
| @kanzure | i doubt it | 22:57 |
| Molybdenum | that made my brain hurt. | 22:57 |
| strangewarp | christ, refuge in social signaling is the most obnoxious way to defer reasonable criticism | 22:57 |
| @kanzure | clearly everyone in here is suffering from small penis syndrome and is trying to compensate | 22:58 |
| -!- Steel_ [43f624a5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.246.36.165] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] | 22:58 | |
| Molybdenum | That opens a whole new can of worms in my case.... | 22:58 |
| @kanzure | oh are you female | 22:58 |
| @kanzure | then small clit syndrome. sorry. | 22:59 |
| Molybdenum | *chuckles* | 22:59 |
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| Steel_ | hmm | 23:14 |
| Steel_ | should consolidate biohack and hplusroadmap | 23:15 |
| yashgaroth | also biopunk.org | 23:15 |
| Steel_ | yes, well | 23:16 |
| Steel_ | I'd like to consolidate their forum | 23:16 |
| Steel_ | kanzure, I don't suppose you keep a textpad with everyone's projects | 23:17 |
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| --- Log closed Mon Feb 13 00:00:08 2012 | ||
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