| --- Log opened Fri Feb 17 00:00:14 2012 | ||
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| rdb | morning Stee| | 00:50 |
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| rdb | the more I learn about electroporators, the easier it seems to build one. I'm trying to find the catch. | 00:56 |
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| Stieru_Ridir | ugh | 01:50 |
| -!- Stieru_Ridir is now known as Steel_ | 01:50 | |
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| Steel_ | hey ThomasEgi, how are you? | 01:55 |
| Steel_ | rdb as well | 01:55 |
| ThomasEgi | remember when i went to bed? | 01:55 |
| ThomasEgi | was like 5 hours ago, postmen ringed me out of my bed, breakfast still missing. | 01:56 |
| ThomasEgi | well. same as every morning i guess^ | 01:57 |
| ThomasEgi | how bout you? | 01:57 |
| Steel_ | I was out :P | 02:00 |
| Steel_ | I turn 21 tomorrow | 02:01 |
| ThomasEgi | half way to the universal asnwer | 02:01 |
| Steel_ | 2 months to salary | 02:03 |
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| ThomasEgi | one president lesson this planet | 02:11 |
| ThomasEgi | germany's just resigned | 02:11 |
| Steel_ | what? | 02:13 |
| Steel_ | really? | 02:13 |
| ThomasEgi | yeah. | 02:14 |
| ThomasEgi | like 10 minutes ago | 02:14 |
| rdb | morning ThomasEgi =) | 02:15 |
| ThomasEgi | the guy befor him already resigned | 02:15 |
| ThomasEgi | mornin | 02:15 |
| Steel_ | I don't have an opinion on the dude | 02:16 |
| Steel_ | dunno enough about him | 02:16 |
| ThomasEgi | politician, wears suit, gets good press, people like him, they put him in charge | 02:17 |
| ThomasEgi | doesnt matter if the person is completely incompetent or corrupt or whatnot | 02:17 |
| ThomasEgi | well.. then the press changed their mind, wrote bad press, people started to hate him. | 02:18 |
| ThomasEgi | now he resigns | 02:18 |
| rkos | does the president in germany do anything? | 02:19 |
| ThomasEgi | signs laws | 02:19 |
| ThomasEgi | other than that he has very little political power. it is mostly representative | 02:20 |
| ThomasEgi | and that earns him bout 200k$ per year, for the rest of his life | 02:20 |
| rkos | so very much like the finnish one | 02:21 |
| rkos | if you don't have a royal house in europe you just elect someone to play an equally pointless role | 02:23 |
| ThomasEgi | and shove money up his .... | 02:23 |
| Steel_ | http://www.cenegenics.com/ haha | 02:38 |
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| chris_99 | GFP is edible right? | 04:21 |
| marainein | sure. and low carb as well | 04:27 |
| chris_99 | nice :) i might see whether i can introduce it into brewers yeast for my homebrew | 04:31 |
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| delinquentme | jmil, | 06:56 |
| delinquentme | http://www.neworgan.org/ | 06:56 |
| delinquentme | can u run down to the store and grab me a liver? | 06:56 |
| jmil | delinquentme: awesome. is it an open competition? | 07:05 |
| delinquentme | i believe so | 07:05 |
| jmil | the challenge with these types of things is you need millions of dollars to do the research to win the prize... | 07:06 |
| delinquentme | aubrey is continuing to make the prizes | 07:06 |
| jmil | it would be better if they made grants | 07:06 |
| delinquentme | i think its an awesome way to move in the space | 07:06 |
| jmil | gave grants instead of awards | 07:06 |
| jmil | it's very interesting | 07:06 |
| jmil | liver is in progress | 07:06 |
| delinquentme | true but awards is how you make it happen when you're not toting around tons of cash | 07:06 |
| jmil | we just need to survive another 30 years | 07:06 |
| jmil | hmmm | 07:06 |
| jmil | it will take many many millions to implant the organ in a human and follow-up for 2 years | 07:07 |
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| delinquentme | anyone know if its necessarily true that if you work in a gov funded organization you're going to make less than in the private sector? | 07:10 |
| delinquentme | im 3/4ths sure its true | 07:10 |
| jmil | delinquentme: yes that is true | 07:14 |
| jmil | NIH mandates wages and they are publicly available | 07:14 |
| jmil | grad students and postdocs make below minimum wage by the way... | 07:14 |
| delinquentme | hmm | 07:15 |
| delinquentme | i gotta see what lawrence berkley is gonna pay | 07:15 |
| delinquentme | *REALLY* wanna work there | 07:15 |
| delinquentme | but I also **REALLY** want to get paid | 07:15 |
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| kanzure | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marvel_Anime#Iron_Man | 07:44 |
| kanzure | well my life is now complete, thanks marvel anime | 07:44 |
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| delinquentme | ^^^ | 08:01 |
| delinquentme | kanzure, JonnieCache is my new minion | 08:01 |
| delinquentme | feed him well | 08:01 |
| delinquentme | i've pumped him full of sugared doughnuts and caffeine | 08:01 |
| JonnieCache | lol thanks | 08:01 |
| delinquentme | and now im going to my zumba class | 08:01 |
| JonnieCache | LOL | 08:02 |
| delinquentme | kanzure, runs the show and is like the log.all() | 08:02 |
| JonnieCache | wtf actually is zumba. i only know it as a way of succinctly establishing a character as painfully middleclass in a sitcom script | 08:02 |
| JonnieCache | i realise this is hardly OT | 08:03 |
| delinquentme | lol its like dancing aerobics for middle aged women | 08:03 |
| delinquentme | oh and its a chain operation | 08:03 |
| JonnieCache | aha. well enjoy yourself | 08:04 |
| delinquentme | slightly less interesting than building startups and hardware for the soon to be inflood of necessary raw inputs for synthetic bio | 08:04 |
| delinquentme | #IfExxonWantsIt | 08:05 |
| JonnieCache | fuck exxon. surely the ideal goal is to destroy exxon | 08:06 |
| delinquentme | JonnieCache, the ideal goal is to capitalize on the $$$$ they have | 08:06 |
| delinquentme | in order for us to build a hefty pipeline for engineering bacterial machines | 08:06 |
| JonnieCache | then use that to destroy them? because they certainly dont share your goal of progressing beyond current paradigms. | 08:06 |
| kanzure | what's going on? | 08:07 |
| kanzure | what? | 08:07 |
| delinquentme | I don't really see them as anything more than a conduit | 08:07 |
| delinquentme | a method to what is really worth going after | 08:07 |
| delinquentme | kanzure, pulling optimistic kids in | 08:07 |
| kanzure | kids? if he's over 17 i don't want him | 08:08 |
| delinquentme | talking about exxon and their funding for serious synthetic biology pipeline development | 08:08 |
| delinquentme | hahah | 08:08 |
| JonnieCache | the moment biotech becomes a threat to their model they will try and control/limit it surely | 08:08 |
| delinquentme | JonnieCache, just like the US __TRYING__ to control bit torrents | 08:08 |
| delinquentme | are they succeeding? | 08:08 |
| delinquentme | nope | 08:08 |
| delinquentme | lol | 08:08 |
| delinquentme | let em try | 08:08 |
| delinquentme | they will perpetually be playing catch u | 08:09 |
| delinquentme | up | 08:09 |
| JonnieCache | BT is nothing though. as soon as you start to threaten the structure of the fossil fuel industry youre fucking with dick cheney and his geopolitical vision. he makes the RIAA look like the boy scouts | 08:09 |
| ThomasEgi | shutting down megaload, was cutting traffic for like 5 hours befor people shifted to servers outside the US, adding extra load on transatlantic lines. regulation is futile | 08:10 |
| delinquentme | JonnieCache, hang out here more :D | 08:10 |
| delinquentme | these guys are all big machines operating in a world full of faster crazier kids | 08:10 |
| delinquentme | eventually | 08:11 |
| delinquentme | ( and it is simply a function of time ) | 08:11 |
| delinquentme | they will fall | 08:11 |
| JonnieCache | oh yes i fully agree dont worry :) | 08:11 |
| delinquentme | SO | 08:11 |
| delinquentme | we pull in their resources | 08:11 |
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| delinquentme | get their secrets | 08:11 |
| delinquentme | then suck em dry | 08:11 |
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| delinquentme | LOLLLLL book of ruby is written with comic sans | 08:13 |
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| JonnieCache | heh which book is this? | 08:13 |
| delinquentme | http://www.sapphiresteel.com/The-Book-Of-Ruby | 08:13 |
| ThomasEgi | how bout a java book in dingbats? | 08:13 |
| delinquentme | looking over dynamic programming atm | 08:13 |
| delinquentme | lolol ThomasEgi aren't they all written in dingbats? | 08:14 |
| delinquentme | PS ThomasEgi howdy :D you seem new | 08:14 |
| ThomasEgi | delinquentme, i am not :) | 08:14 |
| delinquentme | programmer ? hacker? hardware? | 08:14 |
| * delinquentme derps | 08:14 | |
| ThomasEgi | all of it | 08:14 |
| JonnieCache | this is the only ruby book you will ever need http://shop.oreilly.com/product/9780596516178.do | 08:14 |
| delinquentme | truck yes :D | 08:14 |
| kanzure | ThomasEgi: you will have to ignore those two | 08:14 |
| delinquentme | http://en.bookfi.org/s/?q=Matsumoto+ruby&t=0 << JonnieCache | 08:15 |
| delinquentme | Its like ... | 08:16 |
| delinquentme | we own the world! | 08:16 |
| kanzure | delinquentme: calm down | 08:16 |
| delinquentme | true true | 08:16 |
| delinquentme | BUT | 08:16 |
| delinquentme | PS kanzure when i land a job in SV | 08:16 |
| delinquentme | im going to be bloody manic for weeks | 08:16 |
| JonnieCache | kanzure: those two? dont lump me in with anyone else ;) | 08:16 |
| delinquentme | yeah im not a solid one to associate w | 08:17 |
| delinquentme | ooo esp in #biology and #bioinformatics haha | 08:17 |
| delinquentme | thats a love / hate relationship there | 08:17 |
| ThomasEgi | anyone knows when yashgaroth will be around again? | 08:18 |
| delinquentme | ThomasEgi, hes usually online later at night? | 08:18 |
| kanzure | ThomasEgi: about seven or eight hours | 08:19 |
| delinquentme | (relative to my time here ) | 08:19 |
| kanzure | you guys need to stop getting jobs, and instead get back to work on things that matter | 08:19 |
| delinquentme | kanzure, ha | 08:20 |
| delinquentme | 1 ) income helps | 08:20 |
| delinquentme | 2) im gonna be hanging out w allll kinds of crazy kids when im down there | 08:20 |
| delinquentme | 3) develop the habits to work harder | 08:20 |
| delinquentme | diet is part of that .. housed a half gallon of thin mint icecream last night while watching SC2 streams | 08:21 |
| delinquentme | XD | 08:21 |
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| jmil | delinquentme: LBL would be amazing to work at; i've always heard great things. i think they actually pay quite well in general, too. but good science is always more rewarding and fulfilling than more money with a boring job. that's been my MO… so far so good! | 08:43 |
| delinquentme | jmil, good to know .. i've got a call w them later today to see what they're up to .. but I'm wondering what the gap between their pay and private is | 08:44 |
| jmil | delinquentme: what field ? | 08:44 |
| delinquentme | they've got this hella sexy niche position | 08:45 |
| jmil | ?? | 08:45 |
| delinquentme | its a bioinformatics programmer for a web application called Kbase which is running on rails | 08:45 |
| jmil | in what | 08:45 |
| jmil | ooh awesome | 08:45 |
| delinquentme | so like super super super niche | 08:45 |
| jmil | lol | 08:45 |
| delinquentme | yeah its synthetic bio + rails + API work + silicion valley | 08:45 |
| jmil | is this it: http://www.systemsbiologyknowledgebase.org/ ? | 08:46 |
| delinquentme | http://www.kbase.us/ | 08:46 |
| delinquentme | surely they know that private is going to be paying | 08:47 |
| delinquentme | so yeah thats what im really curious about | 08:47 |
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| kanzure | i really doubt they will pay 100k+ for that position | 08:51 |
| kanzure | *maybe* 50k | 08:51 |
| delinquentme | have to see | 08:53 |
| kanzure | this guy has to touch the mouse too often :/ | 08:59 |
| kanzure | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epRNaSIibew | 08:59 |
| kanzure | time lapse of someone programming | 08:59 |
| delinquentme | kanzure, #biology | 09:11 |
| delinquentme | cooking old chicken | 09:11 |
| delinquentme | lol | 09:11 |
| delinquentme | if i dont come back Lando gets all my socks | 09:42 |
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| delinquentme | LAWL | 10:11 |
| delinquentme | http://www.bio-itworld.com/news/02/17/12/Oxford-strikes-first-in-DNA-sequencing-nanopore-wars.html | 10:11 |
| delinquentme | 100k reads @ 900 bones | 10:12 |
| kanzure | bones? | 10:12 |
| delinquentme | haha | 10:12 |
| delinquentme | yeah | 10:12 |
| delinquentme | USD bones | 10:12 |
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| chris_99 | has anyone used luciferin before? | 12:33 |
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| yash-phone | oi thomasegi i'm here if you wanna talk, but i'm on mein handy so i can't type too well | 12:54 |
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| ThomasEgi | yash-phone, just wanted to let you know that the it would be possible to go up to 1500V for that circuit. | 12:55 |
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| yash-phone | oh man 600 is like beyond maximum; as long as it can do 1 amp at that voltage i'll be fine | 12:56 |
| yash-phone | though it might be good to have 1kilovolt if we can get the pulse duration under ~10microseconds | 12:58 |
| ThomasEgi | the parts can withstand a maximum of 8A | 13:04 |
| ThomasEgi | continous current. peak current usualy is higher | 13:04 |
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| chris_99 | are you making an electroporator? | 13:10 |
| chris_99 | oh the voltage would be far too high for that heh | 13:11 |
| yash-phone | it is an electroporator, just not for bacteria because those are boring and easy | 13:16 |
| yash-phone | in vivo human muscle is the target for this one | 13:17 |
| chris_99 | oh interesting, so the voltage is a lot higher then | 13:18 |
| chris_99 | because its only ~2V for bacteria right? | 13:18 |
| yash-phone | no you have it inverted | 13:22 |
| yash-phone | bacteria are kilovolts due to their smallness, we won't be going over 200V/cm | 13:23 |
| yash-phone | also bacteria have cell walls and shit, and while no one cares about bacterial survival, we want low toxicity for muscle fibers | 13:24 |
| chris_99 | is wikipedia wrong then: 'It is generally accepted that for a given pulse duration and shape, a specific transmembrane voltage threshold exists for the manifestation of the electroporation phenomenon (from 0.5 V to 1 V).' | 13:25 |
| yash-phone | "several hundred vollts across a distance of several millimeters are typically used" | 13:27 |
| yash-phone | just a little bit further down the page | 13:28 |
| kanzure | "(e.g. Merck's recently announced scientific staff cuts being moved to China)" | 13:28 |
| chris_99 | but surely the bit i just posted is wrong | 13:28 |
| chris_99 | then | 13:28 |
| yash-phone | i'm no electronicist, but it's phrased badly | 13:28 |
| chris_99 | i'm curious about making one of these using a cockroft-walton circuit then | 13:29 |
| chris_99 | and a cap bank | 13:29 |
| yash-phone | heh cockroft | 13:29 |
| yash-phone | sorry, continue | 13:29 |
| chris_99 | heh, well its a way to convert AC to high voltage dc | 13:29 |
| chris_99 | then i could use a cap bank to get the ampage | 13:29 |
| chris_99 | presuming it requires high amps | 13:30 |
| rdb | they aren't very accurate | 13:30 |
| chris_99 | hmm, i could possibly get a hv zener i presume then | 13:30 |
| rdb | inaccuracies in every stage build up while with electroporation you'll want a pretty reliable way of producing the correct voltage | 13:30 |
| rdb | do you only need a fixed voltage? | 13:31 |
| chris_99 | a high voltage dc pulse i believe then | 13:31 |
| rdb | you can use a high-voltage boost converter to get up to kV range, I think Thomas' design uses one of those | 13:32 |
| chris_99 | not heard of a HV boost converter | 13:32 |
| chris_99 | only low voltage ones | 13:32 |
| chris_99 | sorry ignore that | 13:34 |
| chris_99 | as boost is probably a generic term for any voltage increasing device | 13:34 |
| rdb | indeed | 13:34 |
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| chris_99 | i just bought some low voltage 150W ones which is why i said that | 13:34 |
| chris_99 | what ampage do you need for an elctroporator yash-phone? | 13:35 |
| yash-phone | for mine, 1; i don't follow specifics for bacteria much | 13:36 |
| chris_99 | sure whats the ampage for yours then | 13:37 |
| rdb | 1 A at 1 kV is 1000 W | 13:37 |
| chris_99 | and the pulse length? | 13:37 |
| yash-phone | um 10-50 milliseconds | 13:38 |
| yash-phone | i'm not doing 1000v, more like 200 at most | 13:38 |
| rdb | components that go up to 200 v are pretty cheap | 13:39 |
| rdb | it'd be quite simple to make that | 13:39 |
| rdb | actually you can make it run off mains power that way, without need for any transformation | 13:39 |
| rdb | and switch using a highspeed relay | 13:39 |
| yash-phone | also all these settings need to be adjustable | 13:39 |
| yash-phone | i outlined it last night in here, but am on my phone so im not gonna copy/paste it | 13:40 |
| chris_99 | ah ok | 13:40 |
| chris_99 | you could try simulating in LTSpice | 13:40 |
| chris_99 | you could also probably use a transistor | 13:41 |
| chris_99 | rather than a relay | 13:41 |
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| rdb | I've found high-voltage transistors up to 1600 V or so | 13:48 |
| ThomasEgi | 1500 transistors are pretty common, and 80 cent cheap | 13:49 |
| chris_99 | nice :) | 13:51 |
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| Steel_ | how goes | 13:56 |
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| eudoxia | yo steel | 13:59 |
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| Steel_ | hmm | 14:00 |
| Steel_ | I guess my account at home got disconned | 14:00 |
| rdb | oh, morning | 14:04 |
| rdb | heading to bed, good night | 14:05 |
| archels | kanzure: Any idea where to get an XY or XYZ micromanipulator for the cheap? | 14:07 |
| kanzure | what does a micromanipulator mean in this context.. are you looking for servos and steppers | 14:08 |
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| Steel_ | if you want to do microfluidic assembly, I have some links for how to build one | 14:12 |
| chris_99 | linky? | 14:12 |
| Steel_ | ftp://ftp.eng.umd.edu/:/home/enae/faculty/benshap/pub/papers/ArmaniChaudharyProbstShapiro_FeedbackParticleSteering_JMEMS_Aug06.pdf this series of papers | 14:13 |
| chris_99 | don't you need expensive equipment to actually fab it? | 14:15 |
| Steel_ | hmmm | 14:15 |
| Steel_ | I don't think so | 14:15 |
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| Steel_ | yay autist arguments in LW | 14:27 |
| kanzure | http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn21495-usb-stick-can-sequence-dna-in-seconds.html?DCMP=OTC-rss&nsref=online-news | 14:27 |
| kanzure | oh it's oxford nano | 14:27 |
| kanzure | "Each unit is expected to cost $900 when it goes on sale later this year." | 14:27 |
| kanzure | "This device will be capable of sequencing a human genome in 2 hours for around $1000, Rothberg claims." | 14:27 |
| kanzure | hrmmm | 14:28 |
| archels | kanzure: That would be fine, but I've also spotted manual, mechanical ones. | 14:29 |
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| chris_99 | wow | 14:31 |
| chris_99 | that looks amazing | 14:31 |
| ParahSailin | wow nanopore sequencing | 14:33 |
| ParahSailin | i feel bad for those halcyon molecular guys | 14:33 |
| kanzure | nah their real business plan is "sell microscopes" | 14:34 |
| ParahSailin | but they were kinda douchey anyway | 14:34 |
| kanzure | i interviewed with them.. their plans are a little shakey | 14:34 |
| kanzure | "SEQUENCE EVERYTHING and hope we live forever; or just sell microscopes if someone beats us to market" | 14:34 |
| eudoxia | the money will fund Randal Koene's volcano fortress | 14:35 |
| chris_99 | oh are you in the UK then kanzure? | 14:35 |
| Steel_ | he's talking about halcyon in san fran | 14:35 |
| kanzure | chris_99: no | 14:36 |
| kanzure | eudoxia: it'll fund randal's illegitimate kiddos, that's what it'll do | 14:36 |
| chris_99 | aren't they a UK firm though | 14:36 |
| kanzure | oxnano is. halcyon molecular is not. | 14:36 |
| chris_99 | ah sorry | 14:36 |
| kanzure | http://google.com/search?q=randal+koene+rapechild | 14:37 |
| eudoxia | but I sort of liked randal koene | 14:37 |
| Steel_ | wonder what's going on locally... | 14:37 |
| Steel_ | I know this district has a huge amount of nano | 14:37 |
| kanzure | yeah he's fine, i'm just being unfair | 14:37 |
| kanzure | it's not really a rapechild | 14:37 |
| kanzure | just some crazy mom | 14:37 |
| Steel_ | most firms in the country, for nanomaterials, etc. | 14:37 |
| eudoxia | is this related to the blog of some crazy person who had an obsession over some guy at Halcyon? | 14:37 |
| eudoxia | there was a blog about it, something like that | 14:37 |
| kanzure | yes | 14:37 |
| eudoxia | ah | 14:37 |
| kanzure | basically, he put his dick in crazy i think | 14:37 |
| Steel_ | eudoxia: You should clearly go to CSNE | 14:38 |
| kanzure | so anyway, i thought that was funnier than volcano fortress | 14:38 |
| ParahSailin | wtf rapechild? | 14:38 |
| kanzure | hahah | 14:38 |
| roksprok | i kind of want a hitler bot though | 14:38 |
| ParahSailin | i just remember that luke and that fat guy at halcyon were particularly douchey | 14:39 |
| kanzure | well, they don't have to be nice with that much dough | 14:39 |
| kanzure | :/ | 14:39 |
| roksprok | are they like, trying to work on uploading too? | 14:39 |
| kanzure | nope | 14:39 |
| eudoxia | ssshhhhh | 14:39 |
| kanzure | unless they lied to me | 14:39 |
| Steel_ | http://cnse.albany.edu/AboutUs/FacultyStaff/Faculty.aspx any good names on this list kanz? | 14:40 |
| roksprok | i'd kind of like to know what koene does all day | 14:40 |
| roksprok | like from carboncopies.org it looks like he's designing nanobots | 14:40 |
| eudoxia | it would be hilarious if they'd blown all the money on ATLUMs and were trying to upload some random hobo | 14:40 |
| roksprok | and i guess....microscopes help with those? | 14:40 |
| kanzure | possibly tenenbaum | 14:41 |
| Steel_ | Hobo? | 14:41 |
| roksprok | the only overlap i can find is molecular ticker tape to read neural synapses | 14:41 |
| Steel_ | Goertzal | 14:41 |
| eudoxia | oh I don't know | 14:41 |
| eudoxia | who else? | 14:41 |
| kanzure | really he just spends time doing data analysis on their reads | 14:41 |
| eudoxia | it takes at least three years to cut up a brain and the Yudkowsky and Goertzel are still active from what I can tell | 14:41 |
| eudoxia | not descerebrated corpses. yet | 14:41 |
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| Steel_ | Visiting #lw again reminds me why I stopped going there and started hanging here in the first place | 14:46 |
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| ParahSailin | whys that | 14:55 |
| Steel_ | it's impossible to have a conversation that doesn't segue into branches and sub branches about what you mean and what you really mean and status signalling and signal/noise ratio and all sorts of other bullshi | 14:56 |
| Steel_ | *bullshit | 14:56 |
| roksprok | i think its just a different type of crowd | 14:56 |
| Steel_ | I mean, I like some of those dudes | 14:56 |
| Steel_ | and I'll probably go to a couple LW DC meetups | 14:57 |
| roksprok | like, people there think sorting algorithms are neat and like to argue about the best one or whatever....but if you don't really give a shit about the algorithm and just want a simple way to sort stuff that can be tiring | 14:57 |
| Steel_ | bueh, I'm more talking about just the ability to hold a conversation in general | 14:58 |
| roksprok | yea its kind of funny that they write so much about signaling, but they just end up doing it more | 14:58 |
| roksprok | and to less productive measures | 14:58 |
| Steel_ | they didn't like my solution to akrasia >_> | 14:59 |
| Steel_ | 'Stop bitching and make yourself work' | 14:59 |
| ParahSailin | heh | 14:59 |
| ParahSailin | http://milkwood.net/2009/07/27/how_to_build_a_geodesic_chook_dome/ thats pretty neat | 15:00 |
| ParahSailin | yah i guess i dont really like the culture of people who come from lesswrong | 15:04 |
| roksprok | ParahSailin: agreed...i think i recall hearing that 20% of free range birds were lost to predation | 15:04 |
| roksprok | this solves that, at least for a small farm | 15:04 |
| ParahSailin | i've been on some objectivist forums and chatrooms and lesswrong trolls were the worst | 15:04 |
| ParahSailin | free range is wasteful anyway, confinement maximizes pasture yield | 15:05 |
| ParahSailin | maximizes eating to trample ratio | 15:05 |
| Steel_ | natural meat is dumb | 15:05 |
| Steel_ | vat grown all the way (soooon) | 15:06 |
| roksprok | wouldn't confinement in factory farms maximize it even more? | 15:06 |
| ParahSailin | confinement in a chicken house is bad for the health of the bird | 15:06 |
| ParahSailin | so inferior meat | 15:06 |
| ParahSailin | but yes, yields are maximized there | 15:06 |
| Steel_ | vat grooooown | 15:06 |
| roksprok | ah....i did not realize that chicken was noticeably worse from a factory farm | 15:07 |
| eudoxia | big, fat, undifferentiated chunks of muscle oh yes | 15:07 |
| Steel_ | eudoxia: the vat grown? | 15:07 |
| eudoxia | yeah | 15:07 |
| roksprok | Stee|_: vat grown would be awesome, if it didn't cost hundreds of thousands a pound | 15:07 |
| Steel_ | tailored leanness to meat | 15:07 |
| Steel_ | cheap goat | 15:07 |
| Steel_ | :D | 15:08 |
| Steel_ | they think they've come up with a way to make it marketable | 15:08 |
| eudoxia | well they better | 15:08 |
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| * eudoxia goes to eat morally reprehensible food | 15:16 | |
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| * ThomasEgi spend 9 hours, trying to figure out why this darn piece of microcontroller software wouldnt work. | 15:21 | |
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| ThomasEgi | turned out an array-index was wrong. should've been 10, was 9. | 15:22 |
| * ThomasEgi headdesks | 15:22 | |
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| eudoxia | ah yes the good ol' off-by-one error | 15:46 |
| ThomasEgi | really sad | 15:47 |
| ThomasEgi | well. at least i get payed for it | 15:47 |
| Stee| | ThomasEgi, you do freelance? | 16:08 |
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| ThomasEgi | Stee|, running my own bussiness. | 16:27 |
| Stee| | cool | 16:44 |
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| ThomasEgi | well. it still is mostly timeconsuming work, somtimes no fun.. but at least better than spending a 40h week in some crappy office | 17:16 |
| Stee| | hah | 17:18 |
| Stee| | I'm looking forward to my 40+ hour a week job | 17:18 |
| Stee| | because it's interesting shit that will teach me a bunch | 17:18 |
| Stee| | it pays well | 17:18 |
| Stee| | I get to go to europe and other parts of the country more | 17:18 |
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| Stee| | and I get to network with mil/ind types and try to bring more h+ stuff to prominence | 17:18 |
| delinquentme | http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=VxSs1kGZQqc#! | 17:19 |
| delinquentme | way cool | 17:19 |
| Stee| | hmm | 17:20 |
| Stee| | could you do this with EDM? | 17:20 |
| Stee| | I wonder how expensive that equipment is | 17:21 |
| kanzure | http://pathogenomics.bham.ac.uk/blog/2012/02/oxford-nanopore-megaton-announcement-why-do-you-need-a-machine-exclusive-interview-for-this-blog/ | 17:26 |
| Stee| | http://semiaccurate.com/2012/02/16/danish-researchers-invent-2nm-components/ eudoxia | 17:30 |
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| eudoxia | graphene is <3 | 17:31 |
| kanzure | heh http://chrisyeh.blogspot.com/2012/02/reverse-demo-day-thursday-february-23.html | 17:36 |
| kanzure | angels pitching to entrepreneurs | 17:36 |
| Stee| | gimme 3 years :-/ | 17:38 |
| roksprok | don't angels get enough pitches already? | 17:40 |
| roksprok | like the point of a demo day is to have investors contact you | 17:40 |
| roksprok | is there really such a frenzy that angels need to beg companies to let them give them money? | 17:41 |
| kanzure | investors also compete between each other | 17:42 |
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| Stee| | *for good startups | 17:42 |
| Stee| | as opposed to shit startups | 17:42 |
| kanzure | frankly i think poop and poop-related startups will really take off in the genomic era | 17:43 |
| kanzure | sequence your poop in 20 seconds or less | 17:43 |
| ThomasEgi | flush it in less than 5 | 17:44 |
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| kanzure | hi yashgaroth | 18:08 |
| yashgaroth | oh hi kanzure | 18:09 |
| kanzure | nathan is redoing his diagram apparently | 18:09 |
| kanzure | did you see the oxnano announcement | 18:09 |
| yashgaroth | will believe when I use one | 18:09 |
| kanzure | agreed. they claim later this year *cough* | 18:10 |
| yashgaroth | when your device costs as much as your per-genome reagent cost, something seems fishy | 18:10 |
| yashgaroth | still, it reminds me of the g-reader from transmet, so I can't rag on it too much | 18:12 |
| kanzure | "Berger suggested that Sigma produce the compound on a larger scale and taught his process to Sigma personnel. A small ad in a scientific journal brought orders and Broida expanded production. Within two years, Sigma offered eight additional ATP derivatives and raised purity levels" | 18:16 |
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| yashgaroth | ? | 18:17 |
| kanzure | "Aldrich offered 1-methyl-3-nitro-1-nitrosoguanidine (MNNG) as its first product, widely used as a methylating reagent. Other products offered in the early 50s include 3-hydroxypyridine, which later became one of Aldrich’s best-selling products; ethyl diazoacetate; tetranitromethane; and ethanedithiol." | 18:17 |
| kanzure | just wondering how merck/sigma/aldrich got started | 18:18 |
| kanzure | an ad in a journal? really now? | 18:18 |
| kanzure | $2B in revenue in 2008? | 18:19 |
| kanzure | "Approximately one million individual customers worldwide" uhuh.. | 18:19 |
| yashgaroth | who, sigma? they've p. much become the standard for a lot of reagents | 18:20 |
| kanzure | sure | 18:21 |
| kanzure | but, | 18:21 |
| kanzure | let's say they have 20,000 chemicals they manufacture | 18:21 |
| kanzure | i can't see how they have enough customers buying those chemicals to warrant separate production facilities | 18:21 |
| kanzure | consider the 100s of buildings that merck has in texas... all for production. | 18:21 |
| yashgaroth | still nothing compared to, say, dow | 18:22 |
| yashgaroth | or whatever goes on in new jersey with those thousands of chemical silos | 18:22 |
| yashgaroth | and anyone the size of merck needs a few dozen buildings to hide the bodies of all the conspiracy theories trying to find the hidden cure for cancer | 18:25 |
| yashgaroth | theorists* | 18:26 |
| kanzure | conspiracy theories trying to find the hidden cure for cancer theorists, got it :) | 18:26 |
| kanzure | pesky cancer theorists | 18:26 |
| yashgaroth | there's, like, levels...man | 18:27 |
| roksprok | speaking of cancer...does anyone know about pink army cooperative? | 18:28 |
| roksprok | their website is kind of vague | 18:28 |
| kanzure | roksprok: i've written a bit of software for pink army | 18:28 |
| kanzure | and i know andrew pretty well. | 18:28 |
| kanzure | what would you like to know? | 18:28 |
| roksprok | do they have a research staff / lab space? | 18:29 |
| kanzure | no | 18:29 |
| kanzure | it's just andrew hessel going around giving presentations | 18:29 |
| roksprok | i think i saw they have about 500-600 signups, is that about right? | 18:30 |
| roksprok | any other source of funds? | 18:30 |
| kanzure | http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=andrew+hessel | 18:30 |
| kanzure | nope no other money | 18:30 |
| roksprok | thanks, i'll watch some of the videos | 18:30 |
| kanzure | uhrm. why? | 18:31 |
| kanzure | i mean, what are you looking for | 18:31 |
| roksprok | mainly, is stuff really that cheap? | 18:32 |
| yashgaroth | "Not being profit-driven frees up Pink Army to focus on finding cures that work" ...what? | 18:32 |
| roksprok | like i know diybio has made a lot of cheaper lab gear | 18:32 |
| roksprok | but it seems like genetic engineering of viruses, even if you just want to try it on lab animals, would still be kind of out of reach | 18:33 |
| kanzure | roksprok: ok so you're looking for a general diybio overview.. i se | 18:33 |
| kanzure | *see | 18:33 |
| kanzure | andrew doesn't really get into specifics like that | 18:33 |
| kanzure | but he talks pretty well about possibilities and sometimes what we currently know about biology | 18:33 |
| kanzure | think of his presentations more like "Here's a bunch of trends" heh' | 18:33 |
| roksprok | ah ok | 18:33 |
| kanzure | if you're interesed in gene therapy (w/ viruses) research, | 18:34 |
| kanzure | see: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/gene-therapy/ | 18:34 |
| roksprok | thanks | 18:35 |
| roksprok | diyhpl.us has been super helpful actually | 18:35 |
| roksprok | and the ezproxy link you posted a little while ago | 18:35 |
| roksprok | i actually just ordered parts to do a little experiment | 18:35 |
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| kanzure | what are you planning? | 18:36 |
| roksprok | trying to reproduce maze learning in nematodes | 18:36 |
| roksprok | er...c elegans | 18:36 |
| roksprok | http://microfluidics.utoronto.ca/papers/worm%20learning.pdf | 18:36 |
| roksprok | that's the paper that described it | 18:36 |
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| roksprok | i'm going to try the shrinky-dink method to make the mazes | 18:37 |
| kanzure | ah okay | 18:37 |
| roksprok | the channels can be 1mm wide | 18:37 |
| kanzure | well, sounds fun | 18:37 |
| roksprok | so its really only borderline microfabrication | 18:37 |
| kanzure | i should get around to microfluidic-dinoflagellate-droplet-stuff | 18:37 |
| roksprok | the microfluidic stuff in general has been really fascinating, especially because i had pretty much no idea about it a few weeks ago | 18:39 |
| roksprok | also, i'd like run something else by you as kind of a longer term goal | 18:39 |
| roksprok | single neuron recording is pretty well established | 18:40 |
| kanzure | sure.. patch clamp techniques | 18:40 |
| roksprok | would it be possible to do that in c elegans? | 18:40 |
| roksprok | in a highly parrallel manner | 18:40 |
| roksprok | and combine it with the connectome to 'emulate' one? | 18:40 |
| kanzure | what? | 18:41 |
| kanzure | did you see the nematode upload project? | 18:41 |
| roksprok | http://code.google.com/p/openworm/ | 18:42 |
| roksprok | that? | 18:42 |
| kanzure | nope | 18:42 |
| roksprok | or the one guy named david from mit/harvard? | 18:42 |
| kanzure | nope. david's stuff is actually more recent, but i don't recall him making any progress | 18:43 |
| roksprok | http://lesswrong.com/lw/88g/whole_brain_emulation_looking_at_progress_on_c/ | 18:43 |
| roksprok | that has all the projects i know about | 18:43 |
| kanzure | http://web.archive.org/web/20070814044636/minduploading.org/research/data.nematodeupload.html | 18:43 |
| kanzure | "A collaboration led by Eugene Leitl. Its aim is to achieve the 3D reconstruction and functional emulation of individual specimens of C.elegans from scanned images of the vitrified original." | 18:44 |
| roksprok | did he have much success? or is it still ongoing? | 18:46 |
| kanzure | there was a gif somewhere, can't find it at the moment | 18:46 |
| kanzure | it showed their reconstruction progress | 18:46 |
| kanzure | anyway, todd huffman's company (3scan) is doing similar things these days | 18:47 |
| kanzure | http://www.3scan.com/ | 18:47 |
| kanzure | "3Scan uses the cutting edge technology of the KESM (Knife Edge Scanning Microscope) to automatically section and image samples. Knife-edge scanning, introduced in the KESM instrument, not only preserves image registration throughout the depth of the specimen block but also isolates the tissue above the knife from that below to eliminate undesirable events (back-scattering of light and bleaching of fluorescent-stained tissue below the knife)." | 18:47 |
| kanzure | "Knife-edge scanning supports all known forms of microscopy (absorption imaging using transmitted light, and reflected light imaging using bright-field, dark-field, DIC, and GFP fluorescence)." | 18:47 |
| roksprok | oh wow i thought that was dead | 18:47 |
| kanzure | "sing the KESM, 3Scan is able to scan a one cc^3 block of tissue (for example, a whole mouse brain) at submicron resolution in under 100 hours. With this resolution (a voxel size of 0.6 um x 0.7 um x 1.0 um) 3Scan is able to show cell scale phenomena in the context of a compete organ. " | 18:47 |
| kanzure | "In the example of a whole mouse brain this means that 3Scan is able to accurately model every neuron in the mouse brain sample." | 18:48 |
| roksprok | i think i saw their site like a year ago, they really updated it | 18:48 |
| kanzure | oh he finally published his damn videos http://www.3scan.com/movies/ | 18:48 |
| roksprok | they went to chile, i think | 18:48 |
| roksprok | are you able to play the non-jove videos? | 18:49 |
| fenn | no, 3scan is alive and well in san francisco | 18:49 |
| kanzure | nah i haven't bothered. i hate flash. | 18:49 |
| kanzure | i have copies of the videos anyway | 18:49 |
| roksprok | fenn: that's good | 18:50 |
| roksprok | do you have them uploaded somewhere? | 18:50 |
| kanzure | get them yourself.. | 18:50 |
| kanzure | http://3scan.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/05_Pyramidal_Cells_Golgi.flv | 18:50 |
| roksprok | thanks | 18:51 |
| fenn | oh they have a blog now? about damn time sheesh | 18:51 |
| kanzure | http://3scan.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/04_Purkinje_Cells_Golgi.flv | 18:51 |
| kanzure | http://3scan.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/09_Mouse_Brain_Vasculature_xvid.flv | 18:51 |
| kanzure | http://3scan.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/02_KESM_Cutting_Session.flv | 18:51 |
| roksprok | i feel dumb...it didn't occur to me to try that | 18:51 |
| roksprok | its even exactly where it said it would be | 18:52 |
| kanzure | fenn: you should go sucker punch him for using flash anyway | 18:52 |
| kanzure | gah power went out. | 18:58 |
| roksprok | do you have 3g? | 18:58 |
| roksprok | or...how are you still online? | 18:59 |
| kanzure | sheer will power? | 19:00 |
| roksprok | nice | 19:00 |
| roksprok | and to think i wasted all this money on electricity | 19:01 |
| kanzure | i use a remote server for irc | 19:01 |
| roksprok | i'm going to ignore that and just believe you're black lightning | 19:03 |
| roksprok | what's eugen leitl up to now? | 19:04 |
| kanzure | wife, kids, full-time job | 19:05 |
| roksprok | back to chemistry? | 19:05 |
| roksprok | or still neuroscience/uploading | 19:06 |
| kanzure | some corporate job | 19:06 |
| roksprok | at least the images and stuff are still up | 19:11 |
| roksprok | all hail waybackmachine | 19:11 |
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| * fenn puts on ninja suit and goes off to steal the internet archive | 19:18 | |
| roksprok | shoot let me download this stuff first | 19:18 |
| fenn | srsly why no internet archive torrent | 19:18 |
| kanzure | it would be cool if their church was using wpa or something easily cracked | 19:22 |
| kanzure | then just wire up huge antennas at night on the side of the building | 19:22 |
| kanzure | or, you know.. just intern there | 19:24 |
| Mokbortolan_ | spray on antennas | 19:25 |
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| uniqanomaly | internet scale distributed file system for backup/storage of all the shit | 20:16 |
| uniqanomaly | replication, fault tolerance etc | 20:17 |
| uniqanomaly | backup of internets | 20:17 |
| uniqanomaly | place to store papers from paywalled publishers | 20:18 |
| uniqanomaly | and nothing ever dies | 20:18 |
| uniqanomaly | Freenet is slow :> | 20:19 |
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| kanzure | are there any known mirrors of ftp://ftp.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/genomes/ | 20:34 |
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| kanzure | The Science for Life Extension Foundation puts out a great many of these things, not all of which get translated. The Russian language originals can largely be found at the following sites: | 21:10 |
| kanzure | http://aging-genes.livejournal.com/ (researcher's blog, digging required) | 21:10 |
| kanzure | http://www.scienceagainstaging.org/Edition/edition.html | 21:10 |
| kanzure | For a limited set of English-language translations: | 21:10 |
| kanzure | http://www.scienceagainstaging.org/ENG/index_ENG.html (links at bottom of page) | 21:11 |
| kanzure | http://www.fightaging.org/archives/2010/06/a-regenerative-medicine-roadmap-from-the-science-for-life-extension-foundation.php | 21:11 |
| kanzure | http://www.fightaging.org/archives/2011/07/biomarkers-of-aging-and-age-related-conditions.php | 21:11 |
| kanzure | http://mariakonovalenko.wordpress.com/2012/01/14/telomeres-and-aging-chart/ | 21:11 |
| kanzure | http://www.fightaging.org/pdf/regenerative_medicine_roadmap_poster_1.1.pdf | 21:11 |
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| kanzure | this chart just seems so old now http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/longevity/causes-of-aging.jpg | 21:14 |
| kanzure | http://www.genome.gov/pages/der/sequencing_cost.xls | 21:15 |
| kanzure | http://www.genome.gov/sequencingcosts/ | 21:15 |
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| JayDugger | Good evenung, everyone. | 21:40 |
| JayDugger | evening, rather. | 21:40 |
| JayDugger | No more typing for me until I finish a cup of coffee. | 21:41 |
| uniqanomaly | Good sunrise lol | 21:43 |
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| kanzure | http://www.fightaging.org/pdf/SCIENCE_AGAINST_AGING_POSTER.pdf | 21:46 |
| kanzure | http://www.fightaging.org/pdf/SAconf.pdf | 21:46 |
| kanzure | http://www.fightaging.org/pdf/SCIENCE_AGAINST_AGING_RESEARCH_PLAN.pdf | 21:46 |
| ParahSailin | kick aging in his testicles! yah, america | 21:48 |
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| kanzure | anyone know of a case of rational protein design or evolution for increased protein mass? | 21:57 |
| yashgaroth | um, not sure how you mean | 21:57 |
| yashgaroth | you could fuse it to another protein to add mass, I guess | 21:58 |
| kanzure | well, i imagine you could add lots of amino acids to polymerase that would increase its size | 21:58 |
| kanzure | you could maybe add one amino acid at a time until you break something / let it replicate a few thousand times over until it makes the most use of each additional amino acid you add | 21:58 |
| yashgaroth | what use would it get out additional residues exactly | 21:58 |
| kanzure | i'm just thinking, a 500x bigger polymerase might be interesting | 21:58 |
| kanzure | no, we'd get use out of it by being able to grab on to it more easily | 21:59 |
| yashgaroth | I'm pretty sure there's tagged polymerase for that | 21:59 |
| kanzure | well, sure. | 22:00 |
| yashgaroth | if you add a linker like poly-GSGG that doesn't interfere with the function, you can stick on as much as you want to that | 22:00 |
| kanzure | "make it bigger" is just a strategy i guess | 22:00 |
| kanzure | yes i'm familiar with various linkers that work well | 22:00 |
| kanzure | but! mechanical/physical solutions also have their uses | 22:00 |
| yashgaroth | so you want it bigger so it won't wash out through pores I assume? | 22:01 |
| kanzure | i have no particular use case in mind | 22:01 |
| kanzure | "Titin is the largest known protein." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titin | 22:02 |
| yashgaroth | also making it 500x bigger would also make its on/off extremely slow, even if it theoretically retains its active site etc | 22:02 |
| kanzure | looks like 34,000 amino acid residues | 22:02 |
| yashgaroth | yep titin's big | 22:02 |
| kanzure | yeah i imagine a jumbo polymerase would begin to be selected for sizes/functionality that facilitate moving dna to the right spot | 22:03 |
| kanzure | erm, that is, if you can force polymerase to accept its larger state :P | 22:03 |
| kanzure | obv. the smaller forms are at a local maxima otherwise they wouldn't be so popular | 22:03 |
| yashgaroth | at that point a multi-protein complex tends to be a better plan | 22:04 |
| kanzure | i'm sorta procrastinating.. avoiding some broken javascript | 22:04 |
| yashgaroth | did you try hitting it | 22:04 |
| yashgaroth | that usually fixes things for me | 22:05 |
| kanzure | multiple times | 22:05 |
| yashgaroth | hmm then I'm out of ideas | 22:05 |
| kanzure | i guess protein chemistry is probably different at a 500x scale | 22:05 |
| yashgaroth | interactions rely a lot on random action - a dna-pulling subunit has to be more efficient than just waiting for pol to happen upon the correct place | 22:06 |
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| kanzure | yashgaroth: yeah but a dna pulling subunit still has to find it | 22:19 |
| kanzure | 'ind' | 22:19 |
| kanzure | *'find' | 22:19 |
| yashgaroth | so yeah it's not really worthwhile | 22:19 |
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| kanzure | black ranger goes to college http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdMBEiOdMTI | 22:49 |
| kanzure | how does hackteria.org have so many sponsors? | 23:03 |
| kanzure | http://hackteria.org/wiki/index.php/HackteriaLab_2011_-_Romainmotier | 23:03 |
| yashgaroth | europe, I guess | 23:09 |
| yashgaroth | also how much sponsoring do they actually do? was there an attendance fee for that | 23:11 |
| kanzure | dunno. | 23:13 |
| kanzure | blah now the javascript problem isn't reproducible | 23:16 |
| Stee| | woo | 23:40 |
| Stee| | drunk. | 23:40 |
| Stee| | happy 21st to me | 23:40 |
| yashgaroth | congrats brah | 23:46 |
| Stee| | yashgaroth, confirmed have female wingman for la jolla bar hopping | 23:48 |
| yashgaroth | haha awesome | 23:49 |
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| Stee| | hey ian | 23:50 |
| Stee| | I have augmented my natural human blood supply with alcohol | 23:51 |
| rdb | ethanol is hardly a useful drug in my opinion | 23:52 |
| ianmathwiz7 | that's always nice | 23:53 |
| yashgaroth | well you live in the land of drugs rdb | 23:53 |
| rdb | I wish, we still have ridiculous drug laws | 23:53 |
| rdb | just slightly less ridiculous than other places | 23:53 |
| Stee| | 21st bday | 23:54 |
| yashgaroth | oh hey I'm gonna be in the netherlands in july, can you recommend something fun outside of amsterdam? | 23:54 |
| yashgaroth | I was thinking belgium but I hear it's boring | 23:55 |
| JayDugger | Happy birthday! | 23:55 |
| Stee| | yashgaroth: maybe I can try to be there too! | 23:55 |
| Stee| | thanks JayDugger | 23:55 |
| yashgaroth | hell yeah man, I've got an extra week to fuck around over there after I visit family | 23:56 |
| Stee| | yashgaroth, I am....a bit wasted O_o | 23:58 |
| yashgaroth | yeah I noticed a little | 23:58 |
| rdb | happy birthday Stee| | 23:58 |
| rdb | yashgaroth, nothing that compares to a trip to a smartshop or coffeeshop, no | 23:59 |
| yashgaroth | aww damn oh well | 23:59 |
| rdb | or to the red light district if you wish | 23:59 |
| --- Log closed Sat Feb 18 00:00:00 2012 | ||
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