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| -!- Topic for ##hplusroadmap: biohacking, nootropics, transhumanism, open hardware http://gnusha.org/logs/ http://bit.ly/diybionews2 http://gadaprize.org/ http://groups.google.com/group/diybio | 02:47 | |
| -!- Topic set by kanzure [~kanzure@131.252.130.248] [Mon Feb 13 12:33:19 2012] | 02:47 | |
| [Users ##hplusroadmap] | 02:47 | |
| [ _sol_ ] [ ferrouswheel ] [ nuba ] [ strangewarp] | 02:47 | |
| [ archels ] [ gedankenstuecke] [ panax ] [ superkuh ] | 02:47 | |
| [ audy ] [ gnusha ] [ ParahSailin ] [ sylph_mako ] | 02:47 | |
| [ augur ] [ HEx1 ] [ pasky ] [ uniqanomaly] | 02:47 | |
| [ bkero ] [ He||eshin ] [ poptire ] [ Urchin ] | 02:47 | |
| [ CIA-92 ] [ ivan` ] [ qnm ] [ Utopiah_ ] | 02:47 | |
| [ Coornail ] [ jennicide ] [ rdb ] [ Vicarious ] | 02:47 | |
| [ d3nd3 ] [ jrayhawk ] [ rkos ] [ vrs ] | 02:47 | |
| [ devrandom] [ Juul ] [ roksprok ] [ ybit ] | 02:47 | |
| [ drazak ] [ kanzure ] [ saurik ] [ ziyadb ] | 02:47 | |
| [ elmom ] [ katsmeow-afk ] [ splicer ] | 02:47 | |
| [ epitron ] [ lichen ] [ Steel2 ] | 02:47 | |
| [ fenn ] [ Mokbortolan_1 ] [ strages_home] | 02:47 | |
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| -!- Channel ##hplusroadmap created Thu Feb 25 23:40:30 2010 | 02:47 | |
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| ParahSailin | http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/122231-solar-panels-made-with-ion-cannon-are-cheap-enough-to-challenge-fossil-fuels this actually looks real | 09:27 |
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| archels | http://www.physorg.com/news/2012-03-extra-chromosomal-dna.html | 10:29 |
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| kanzure | Juul: low power ultrasound for brain stimulation http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/neuro/ultrasound/ | 10:53 |
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| kanzure | "Gram negative enteric bacteria Klebsiella pneumoniae and Escherichia coli has been increasingly common acquired ESBL enzymes that make them resistant to penicillins and cephalosporins." | 11:02 |
| kanzure | "They are often multiresistant. Beta-lactam-type carbapenems has hitherto been the last line broad-spectrum drugs, but when the bacteria had acquired enzymes, known as ESBL-Carba, which also breaks down carbapenems, remains registered no antibiotic group with safe effect." | 11:02 |
| kanzure | "In Sweden, ESBL-Carba still unusual. So far , 37 cases identified, almost exclusively asymptomatic cases related to healthcare abroad (Figure 1). This means that we still have no safe domestic spread of infection and that there is still opportunity to prevent this." | 11:03 |
| kanzure | "Several reports describe deaths after severe infection with ESBL-Carba. In Paris, hit seven patients in a hospital, despite treatment died five. In Istanbul killed ten of fifteen patients. Five newly transplanted patients died in Essen, Germany. In Greece and Italy are between 15 and 50 percent of all Klebsiella pneumoniae from blood cultures resistant to carbapenems. Greece and India dominate the country of infection in the Swedish case." | 11:03 |
| kanzure | 2007 paper http://soapimg.icecube.snowfall.se/strama/Strama%20ESBL%20eng.pdf | 11:04 |
| kanzure | "swedish strategic programme against antibiotic resistance" is an awesome name | 11:04 |
| Vicarious | hi | 11:16 |
| kanzure | hello. | 11:20 |
| Vicarious | how's life? | 11:20 |
| kanzure | javascript | 11:20 |
| kanzure | is not a way of life | 11:20 |
| Vicarious | hacking is | 11:23 |
| Mariu | it's the only way to fly | 11:23 |
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| kanzure | Mariu: who are yu | 11:24 |
| kanzure | you | 11:24 |
| Mariu | some guy interested in Transhumanism | 11:25 |
| Mariu | came across this channel in some Google searches | 11:25 |
| Mariu | I live in Romania | 11:25 |
| Mariu | and that's about it, I think | 11:26 |
| kanzure | do you know any good romanian bulletproof hosting solutions? | 11:26 |
| Mariu | no | 11:26 |
| epitron | archels: i just read that microDNA article... | 11:35 |
| epitron | wtf is this: "This result suggests that the DNA found in tissue cells may exhibit more variation than previously thought, and the implication of this is that sequencing of the DNA in blood cells (which are the cells usually used for sequencing) may give misleading results if microdeletions have occurred in the DNA of other tissues but not in blood cells." | 11:36 |
| epitron | we only sequence blood cells?? | 11:36 |
| epitron | how are blood cells the most representative cells in the body? :) | 11:37 |
| epitron | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haematopoiesis | 11:38 |
| epitron | look at this | 11:38 |
| epitron | blood cells are weird, in that they're very special purpose | 11:39 |
| kanzure | i'm p. sure we sequence all sorts of cells.. all the diybio stuff is cheek swabs | 11:41 |
| epitron | aren't cheek swabs only really good for microarrays, because you get so much bateria in there too? | 11:42 |
| epitron | or can you separate the skin cells by centrifuge? | 11:42 |
| kanzure | you can separate dna by molecular weight and prolly centrifugation | 11:44 |
| epitron | that still seems pretty messy though, for shotgun sequencing | 11:44 |
| epitron | you won't get any of these circularDNAs from that method either | 11:44 |
| kanzure | what are you trying to do? | 11:44 |
| epitron | well, i'm not trying to do it, but i think science's goal is to get a representative sample of the population's DNA | 11:45 |
| archels | I'm wondering if those circular DNA strands are pathological. | 11:46 |
| epitron | didn't they discover recently that neurons strip out a bunch of their DNA to optimize the cell? | 11:46 |
| epitron | like, after neurogenesis from stem cells | 11:47 |
| epitron | i wouldn't be surprised if blood cells did the same thing | 11:50 |
| epitron | since they don't really do much besides float around a while, then get broken down | 11:50 |
| epitron | :) | 11:50 |
| epitron | and the more real-estate you've got in a blood cell, the more oxygen-holding molecules you can cram in there | 11:54 |
| ParahSailin | on sequencing blood cells: who knows, maybe they mean b cells immortalized by ebv | 12:04 |
| ParahSailin | those sorts of cell lines are common in cell banks | 12:04 |
| ParahSailin | because very easy to collect and then transform | 12:04 |
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| kanzure | 'solid state civilization' http://www.aleph.se/andart/archives/2009/03/a_really_green_and_sustainable_humanity.html | 13:10 |
| kanzure | samaya: hi | 13:10 |
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| uniqanomaly | next hitler will be greenie | 13:33 |
| uniqanomaly | kill 'em all and copse forests | 13:35 |
| ThomasEgi | eco-extremists? | 13:35 |
| ThomasEgi | uniqanomaly, if you want forests, all you have to do is: nothing | 13:36 |
| ThomasEgi | and few decades later. there will be forest all over where you did nothing | 13:36 |
| uniqanomaly | http://innoplex.org/eng/2011/02/vertical-led/ that's awesum | 13:39 |
| ThomasEgi | hm. that's a pretty awesome thing. will definetly get back to it when i finished my first food-lab in my underground city. | 13:43 |
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| rkos | i thought the last hitler was a greenie too | 13:54 |
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| fenn | wow E. O. Wilson is still alive? | 15:07 |
| kanzure | termination was unsuccessful | 15:08 |
| fenn | "E.O. Wilson will speak on his new book at the Exploratorium on April the 20th." | 15:08 |
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| kanzure | "The books were often a financial stretch, with many families paying for their encyclopedias in monthly installments." | 15:29 |
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| kanzure | http://finance.yahoo.com/news/assay-depot-biocurious-announce-open-140700957.html | 16:50 |
| kanzure | "My name is Timothy Chen from Assay Depot. We have partnered with | 16:50 |
| kanzure | BioCurious, a San Francisco-based laboratory hackerspace, to start up | 16:50 |
| kanzure | a competition for Bay Area students and scientists. As a source of | 16:50 |
| kanzure | hackerspace of your own, I thought that some LA Biohackers would be | 16:50 |
| kanzure | interested as many people from SoCal have roots in the Bay Area and | 16:50 |
| kanzure | may be interested. There is a $10,000 prize pool for research services | 16:50 |
| kanzure | and full year memberships to the BioCurious laboratory hackerspace | 16:50 |
| kanzure | available as prizes (which could be a great way for students to work | 16:50 |
| kanzure | with other scientists). I did not want to email the Google Groups | 16:50 |
| kanzure | mailing list just in case it was deemed inappropriate. | 16:50 |
| kanzure | Our guidelines can be found at https://www.assaydepot.com/pages/challenge. | 16:50 |
| kanzure | " | 16:50 |
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| ParahSailin | the remainder of the prize money is earmarked for research services necessary to carry out the project whats this mean | 17:05 |
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| kanzure | ParahSailin: that might mean the first $500 goes to the biocurious reagent store, or the second $500 has to go to assaydepot | 17:13 |
| kanzure | i like the "money stuffed into a flask" image | 17:14 |
| kanzure | i'm gonna steal that image. hell yeah | 17:14 |
| ThomasEgi | all those "get 5000$ price"... i mean if you break that down to living costs and stuff. it is pretty much like asking people to invent something for almost-free. | 17:17 |
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| kanzure | ThomasEgi: researchers tend to be poor and paid $10/hr | 17:19 |
| Steel2 | unless you're working for a corporation or the gov. | 17:19 |
| kanzure | state universities still pay low amounts to researchers | 17:19 |
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| kanzure | defense contracting is a little different, but they still hire lab technicians at obscenely low prices | 17:20 |
| kanzure | all those "associate degrees in lab tech" people | 17:20 |
| Steel2 | eh, I'd differentiate between researcher and lab tech. | 17:22 |
| kanzure | Steel2: do you do any mems-related math on a regular basis | 17:22 |
| Steel2 | no, I don't do mems. I know some people who might tho | 17:22 |
| Steel2 | my lab doesn't do mems at all | 17:23 |
| kanzure | huh? i thought you do some microjets | 17:23 |
| kanzure | i'm writing some code to do mathy things for me regarding flow rates and pressures in channels | 17:23 |
| Steel2 | oh | 17:23 |
| Steel2 | microfluidics =/= mems | 17:23 |
| kanzure | yes true | 17:23 |
| Steel2 | I can tell you about microfluidic impacts | 17:24 |
| kanzure | how about the relation of pumping to flow rate to channel geometries | 17:24 |
| kanzure | :x | 17:24 |
| Steel2 | oh christ. | 17:24 |
| kanzure | i think it's probably simple | 17:24 |
| Steel2 | probably somewhere in my micromanufacturing notes | 17:24 |
| Steel2 | which I'm trying to get ahold of still | 17:25 |
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| kanzure | it's probably something simple tho | 17:27 |
| kanzure | like a "are you brain dead for even asking?" | 17:28 |
| kanzure | http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Microfluidics/Hydraulic_resistance_and_capacity#Modelling_of_an_elastic_long_tube_with_a_substantial_pressure_drop | 17:28 |
| kanzure | gee this is probably exactly the same as electronics | 17:30 |
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| kanzure | "Small ants can lift 1000 small ants. Note, that this force is used by a particular species of ants to jump. These ants strike their mandibles on the ground with a force that is 300 times its own weight, and propel themselves up to 10cm in height" | 17:38 |
| kanzure | Patek, S. N. and Baio, J. E. and Fisher, B. L. and Suarez, A. V. (2006) Multifunctionality and mechanical origins: Ballistic jaw propulsion in trap-jaw ants, Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, vol 103, page 12787 | 17:38 |
| kanzure | http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/abstract/103/34/12787 | 17:38 |
| kanzure | ballistic jaw propulsion | 17:39 |
| kanzure | i wonder how it lands | 17:40 |
| jrayhawk | If Morrowind has taught me anything, it has to land using the same technique | 17:41 |
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| ybit | christof koch @singularity institute :: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tWr6HW9xKw&feature=player_detailpage#t=76s | 17:52 |
| ybit | first two mins watching if you don't watch anything els | 17:52 |
| ybit | e | 17:52 |
| kanzure | huh i forgot about how awesome mohorbiz is | 17:56 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/maharbiz/ | 17:56 |
| kanzure | *maharbiz | 17:56 |
| kanzure | he does some cyborg beetles and some microfluidics stuff | 17:56 |
| kanzure | "A cyborg beetle - insect flight control through an implantable, tetherless microsystem" | 17:56 |
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| kanzure | "Patterned delivery and expression of gene constructs into developing zebrafish embryos using microfabricated interfaces" | 17:56 |
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| kanzure | huh surface tension actuated microfluidics.. http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/maharbiz/Transpiration%20actuation%20-%20the%20design,%20fabrication,%20and%20characterization%20of%20biomimetic%20microactuators%20driven%20by%20the%20surface%20tension%20of%20water.pdf | 17:59 |
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| kanzure | weird things i find in my collection, exhibit A: | 18:14 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/organic-tft/2010-02-01.txt | 18:14 |
| kanzure | "I'm looking at amorphous and polycrystalline TFT based ICs that could conceivably support an X86 virtual mode compliant processor running at 50 - 100MHz. Running an old modified Slackware kernel, say. That's all you need if the library calls are made to ASICs made of the same stuff. For calls to matrix calculations; you can use a battery of specialized TFTs to do things really fast...." | 18:14 |
| kanzure | "Bryan if this is irrelevant to u please delete real fast, and sorry!!" | 18:14 |
| kanzure | why would anyone apologize to me for these things :x | 18:15 |
| jrayhawk | did you rule with an iron fist | 18:15 |
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| kanzure | gahhh | 18:18 |
| kanzure | i forgot about /protein-purification .. it's now safely merged with /bio/protein-purification/ | 18:18 |
| kanzure | delinquentme: you might enjoy http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/retrosynthesis/ | 18:20 |
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| kanzure | ""We assessed the forgetting of friends and its effects on measuring personal and social network characteristics and properties. All 217 residents of a university residence hall first recalled as many of their friends in the hall as they could." | 18:23 |
| kanzure | "Then, on a complete list of hall residents, residents indicated other friends they forgot to recall." | 18:23 |
| kanzure | "On average, residents forgot 20% of their friends. Residents' demographic characteristics are unrelated to the proportion of friends forgotten." | 18:23 |
| kanzure | congratulations! i don't know 20% of you. | 18:23 |
| kanzure | probably more. who the hell are you people? | 18:24 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/social/ | 18:25 |
| kanzure | oh i forgot that dunbar estimated his number based on the size of the neocortex.. that's funky | 18:26 |
| * Vicarious arrived at home | 18:35 | |
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| Steel2 | hey Yashgaroth, Daniel Finfer of Ancient Lasers/Posthuman era might go out with us when I finally make it to cali | 18:39 |
| Yashgaroth | aw shit I better listen to his albums then | 18:39 |
| Steel2 | lol | 18:40 |
| Yashgaroth | I mean, I've heard songs, but probably not the whole discography | 18:40 |
| Steel2 | whatever, it won't be for a while | 18:40 |
| Yashgaroth | I thought you were coming next month | 18:40 |
| kanzure | Yashgaroth: i misplaced some files and you might enjoy the updates to http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/bio/protein-purification/ | 18:41 |
| Yashgaroth | sweet | 18:42 |
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| Yashgaroth | also re: epitron earlier, genome sequencing of 'blood cells' is of immune cells; red blood cells don't have a nucleus | 18:42 |
| Juul | blood isn't alive! | 18:44 |
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| Yashgaroth | billions of zombies, floating around inside you right now | 18:45 |
| kanzure | only billions? | 18:45 |
| kanzure | "There are about 30 trillion red blood cells in the average human body." | 18:45 |
| kanzure | 30 trillion zombies is way different man | 18:45 |
| Steel2 | Yashgaroth: I was going to, thesis advisors are being dicks. | 18:45 |
| Steel2 | so my dad's shipping the car instead of me flying out and driving it back | 18:46 |
| Juul | https://inspirescience.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/carl_sagan2.jpg | 18:46 |
| kanzure | Juul: i finally watched "cosmos" a few weeks ago.. | 18:46 |
| Yashgaroth | well damn...I might be visiting NY/DC at some point in may-ish | 18:46 |
| Steel2 | cool | 18:46 |
| Juul | kanzure, oh yeah? i've only watched clips. just how outdated does it feel? | 18:46 |
| kanzure | the romantizing of science was really not cool | 18:46 |
| Steel2 | I'll still be in SD a decent amount for work or visiting dad | 18:46 |
| Yashgaroth | well, I'll be here for a while, hopefully | 18:47 |
| epitron | Yashgaroth: ah, i see.. that makes more sense... | 18:47 |
| Juul | kanzure, hm, now i have to watch it | 18:47 |
| kanzure | Juul: no it's not too outdated ... for the astrophysics | 18:47 |
| kanzure | damn i should have kept a list of things | 18:47 |
| Yashgaroth | also kanzure, where did you get the 30 trillion number? I'm p. sure the whole body is only ~100 trillion | 18:48 |
| kanzure | but anyway, if you can get past all the "i want to touch you while we talk about science" stuff it's ok | 18:48 |
| Yashgaroth | oh it's wikipedia | 18:48 |
| Juul | kanzure, i'll probably like it. i like sagan's writing. | 18:48 |
| kanzure | i like sagan's concepts but i really dislike how he makes a nebula some romantic thing instead of a cloud of dust | 18:49 |
| Steel2 | the point is to show people that reality is just as beautiful as mysticism | 18:50 |
| Yashgaroth | I've got a mental image of sagan making out with a galaxy now | 18:50 |
| Juul | you don't like the mixing of poetry and sicence | 18:50 |
| Juul | i can see that | 18:50 |
| kanzure | poetry has its place | 18:50 |
| kanzure | i am ok with poetry in general | 18:50 |
| kanzure | i am also ok with science-related poetry | 18:50 |
| kanzure | at least feynman admitted it was the pleasure of finding things out, and not some sort of inherent pleasure that electrons possess | 18:51 |
| Juul | yeah i do think he sometimes goes a bit overboard with the poetic imagery when the facts are actually more awe-inspiring | 18:51 |
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| kanzure | http://www.genomeweb.com/coalition-wants-moratorium-extreme-synthetic-bio-businesses | 19:01 |
| kanzure | " An international advocacy coalition today | 19:01 |
| kanzure | called for a moratorium on the development of new synthetic organisms | 19:01 |
| kanzure | for commercial use while new international regulations for governing | 19:01 |
| kanzure | the synthetic biology sector are created to protect the environment | 19:01 |
| kanzure | and people from unknown perils." | 19:01 |
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| kanzure | what the fuck is a "global moratorium" and why would they think i would obey it? | 19:01 |
| kanzure | "Friends of the Earth and over 100 international groups focused on | 19:02 |
| kanzure | environmental, bioscience, food safety, human and consumer rights | 19:02 |
| kanzure | issues, and religion, said in a report published today that although | 19:02 |
| kanzure | the synbio market had a value of more than $1.6 billion in 2011 and | 19:02 |
| kanzure | could hit $10.8 billion by 2016, there has been "little or no | 19:02 |
| kanzure | governance of the industry or assessment of the novel risks posed by | 19:02 |
| kanzure | synthetic organisms." | 19:02 |
| kanzure | bleh | 19:02 |
| kanzure | "The group also wants mandatory regulations that would treat synthetic | 19:03 |
| kanzure | biology as a unique activity and would be stronger than current the | 19:03 |
| kanzure | regulations on pathogens, containment, drugs, and worker protections." | 19:03 |
| Yashgaroth | pfft they're not even biologists | 19:03 |
| kanzure | "Among other proposals, the coalition also said it wants a prohibition | 19:03 |
| kanzure | on the use of synthetic biology to change the human genetic makeup, | 19:03 |
| kanzure | human genome, epigenome, or microbiome, because any such genetic | 19:03 |
| kanzure | alterations "are too risky and fraught with ethical concerns."" | 19:03 |
| kanzure | Yashgaroth: the majority of people who make laws are also not biologists | 19:03 |
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| Yashgaroth | but look at 'their staff': attorney/activist/author, a methodist and 'fellow' at some other bogus institute, another attorney, '18 years experience working in office management', BA in anthro, journalist | 19:06 |
| Yashgaroth | "The United Methodist Church’s staff director of genetics" | 19:07 |
| Stee| | heh | 19:07 |
| Yashgaroth | the anthro major is their "research support" | 19:07 |
| kanzure | unfortunately there's not that many orgs that can argue against things like this | 19:08 |
| Stee| | kanzure: You don't need much | 19:08 |
| kanzure | when a govt body receives a demand letter like that signed with 100 orgs they look at it pretty closely | 19:08 |
| Stee| | 500 bucks for an LLC and all the paperwork | 19:08 |
| kanzure | yes but you need 100+ of these | 19:08 |
| kanzure | let's see.. what do we have? | 19:08 |
| Yashgaroth | until they ask the AAAS about it and they go "haaaaahahaha" | 19:08 |
| Stee| | how many synthetic bio advocacy groups are there? or do we even need to bother, considering pharma companies | 19:08 |
| kanzure | AAAS would probably join that list, Yashgaroth | 19:08 |
| kanzure | well no i mean non-profits | 19:09 |
| kanzure | because if it's just industry vs. non-profits, the non-profits have an easy argument ("they are all afraid of regulation and taxes") | 19:09 |
| Stee| | welp, time to start starting up those pro-h+ nonprofits | 19:09 |
| kanzure | no... that's not what i asked :( | 19:09 |
| Yashgaroth | we have no reputable h+ nonprofits worth a shit | 19:09 |
| kanzure | and the 'time' to do that is not at all influenced by whether or not someone sends a giant letter | 19:09 |
| kanzure | they send these all the time | 19:09 |
| Stee| | eh, the time to do it is asap | 19:10 |
| Stee| | yashgaroth: yet | 19:10 |
| Yashgaroth | true | 19:10 |
| kanzure | and whether or not to start one has nothing to do with whethero r not thse other groups are sending letters | 19:10 |
| kanzure | i find your logic to be full of shit | 19:10 |
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| Stee| | Non profits look good from a pr pov | 19:10 |
| Stee| | to normal people | 19:10 |
| kanzure | anyway, i specifically asked for a list of synthetic biology orgs | 19:11 |
| Stee| | oh | 19:11 |
| Stee| | no idea | 19:11 |
| kanzure | "let's see... what do we have?" | 19:11 |
| kanzure | well there's openwetware, biofab, synbioberc | 19:11 |
| kanzure | biobricks foundation | 19:11 |
| kanzure | jcvi | 19:11 |
| Yashgaroth | there weren't even any orgs for genetic engineering, back before it got renamed synbio | 19:11 |
| kanzure | although, i think synbioberc is probably listed on that antisynbio letter | 19:11 |
| kanzure | Yashgaroth: iirc there's a lot of microbiology genetics orgs that are quasi related to AAAS | 19:12 |
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| Yashgaroth | well sure, but not explicitly synbio-oriented | 19:12 |
| Yashgaroth | not that I really keep track of these things | 19:13 |
| kanzure | Stee|: why would your humanity+ be better than regular humanity+ | 19:13 |
| Stee| | I didn't say I wanted to start a H+ equivalent (yet) | 19:13 |
| kanzure | 19:09 < Stee|> welp, time to start starting up those pro-h+ nonprofits | 19:14 |
| Stee| | pro transhumanism | 19:14 |
| kanzure | so is humanity+ | 19:14 |
| kanzure | .... theoretically. | 19:14 |
| Stee| | yeah, but all I want to start with is provide an umbrella for people to order various lab supplies and shit, and give support to, without looking like terrorists | 19:14 |
| kanzure | i thought you wanted PR | 19:15 |
| Stee| | we'll see where it goes after that | 19:15 |
| kanzure | make up your mind :( | 19:15 |
| Stee| | that's part of PR? | 19:15 |
| kanzure | um.. not really | 19:15 |
| Stee| | it's all intertwined | 19:15 |
| kanzure | that sounds like lab supply distribution | 19:15 |
| kanzure | intertwined is not a good way to describe what you're doing | 19:15 |
| Stee| | I need to build up reputation in the community, outside the community, with people peripherally related to the community, etc. | 19:16 |
| Stee| | also building up organizational reputation | 19:16 |
| Stee| | these are all different efforts | 19:16 |
| kanzure | meh | 19:16 |
| Stee| | that culminate with the same goals | 19:16 |
| kanzure | ok what does that have to do with lab supply distribution? | 19:16 |
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| Stee| | by making people's lives easier with various supplies, I get rid of one annoyance/obstacle | 19:17 |
| Stee| | as well as possibly helping with some sort of standardization/discount | 19:17 |
| kanzure | obstacle to reputation? | 19:17 |
| Stee| | obstacle to their own research | 19:17 |
| kanzure | ok so again i don't see why reputation matters there | 19:17 |
| kanzure | just provide a good service and reputation will happen | 19:17 |
| kanzure | and/or don't care about it | 19:17 |
| Stee| | that's exactly what I said basically | 19:18 |
| kanzure | no i know you better than that | 19:18 |
| Stee| | by helping out I gain reputation AND advance the science | 19:18 |
| kanzure | you've told me on other occassions that you'd rather be doing ads, publicity, PR, PR stunts, lobbying, etc. | 19:18 |
| kanzure | and "social forums" | 19:19 |
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| Steel2 | router issues, last thing I saw was [Stee|] by helping out I gain reputation AND advance the science | 19:21 |
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| Mariu | see you guys | 20:10 |
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| kanzure | economics of anime http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/feature/2012-03-07 | 21:45 |
| kanzure | "This change in consumer behavior hit anime particularly hard, since during the industry's heyday, it depended on people collecting multiple volumes of a show they'd never seen. The idea of expecting people to commit up to $200 to collect a show they might not even like, in retrospect, seems like insanity." | 21:52 |
| kanzure | what? | 21:52 |
| Steel2 | oh, yeah | 21:56 |
| Steel2 | they'd do these ultra niche fanservice shows to hit one particular market really hard | 21:56 |
| Steel2 | and make up for it with massive prices | 21:56 |
| katsmeow-afk | haute couture in movies | 21:57 |
| kanzure | "It's been slow and painful. Licensors were reluctant to give up the safety of videotape, which was secure, long-lasting and reliable, and while it cost quite a bit of money, was uncomplicated and easy to work with." | 21:57 |
| kanzure | "It wasn't until the 2011 Tohoku Earthquake and tsunami wiped out Sony's only broadcast tape manufacturing plant (and the worldwide tape shortage that followed) that many of the bigger licensors started taking a serious look at going "tapeless"." | 21:57 |
| kanzure | "How much money? Most anime these days is mastered on a tape format called HD-CAM. The price of a single recorder starts at US$45,000." | 21:59 |
| kanzure | .. but i bet it costs way less than $5k in parts | 21:59 |
| lichen | thats how it goes | 21:59 |
| lichen | but you could go into the economics of high end technical equipment too | 21:59 |
| lichen | the amount of development and testing required costs money | 22:00 |
| lichen | which means prices are going to be artifically inflated for a while | 22:00 |
| strangewarp | ... Friends of the Earth, almost right down to their organization's name, are nearly identical in composition, spirit, and goal to a fictional organization on a roleplaying game I used to be active in. Ultimate weirdness. | 22:01 |
| kanzure | strangewarp: the game was probably based around these real-life orgs | 22:05 |
| kanzure | "So overall, over 22 full length episode series and so around 90 episodes a month, the funds from Crunchyroll would cover the cost of about one episode ~ if the streaming process itself was cost free, which it is not." | 22:06 |
| lichen | the media industry is all kinds of broken right now | 22:07 |
| kanzure | relying on advertising revenue is kind of silly | 22:15 |
| kanzure | "we can't figure out how to make money from this" | 22:15 |
| kanzure | "oh i know! we can get money from ads, they'll know how to make money from this!" | 22:15 |
| kanzure | but in reality ads don't really pay out that much | 22:15 |
| lichen | yep | 22:15 |
| kanzure | because advertising doesn't work | 22:15 |
| kanzure | unless you're building brand awareness | 22:15 |
| lichen | and when all else fails, lobby your way into money | 22:15 |
| lichen | if people dont want to pay you, just sue them untilt hey have to | 22:16 |
| kanzure | no that doesn't work either | 22:16 |
| lichen | im aware | 22:16 |
| lichen | sarcasm | 22:16 |
| kanzure | i'm a little surprised that people think ads are a viable solution | 22:16 |
| lichen | well as long as corpos keep feeding them money for that | 22:17 |
| lichen | it is | 22:17 |
| lichen | mostly just blame corps for putting so much of their operating budget into advertising | 22:17 |
| kanzure | the reason ad agencies used to make so much money was because nobody could measure their performance | 22:17 |
| kanzure | $20mil or $50mil to an ad agency is very commonly not measured | 22:17 |
| lichen | ah | 22:17 |
| kanzure | "oh look! we advertised during a tv show with 4 million viewers (maybe)" | 22:18 |
| kanzure | except you charged $3mil to do that ad, and only 100 people want to buy it | 22:18 |
| * katsmeow-afk points to a case where $1500 in "buy one 2nd is half off (if you bring in this coupon))" got zero results,, so in that case advertising was worthless | 22:18 | |
| strangewarp | kanzure: I dunno, the game had been running since the 1990s. But whatever [late reply; was doing things] | 22:18 |
| kanzure | strangewarp: yeh these orgs have been around for a while | 22:19 |
| kanzure | i think 'friends of earth' or that one about farmers has been around for decades now | 22:19 |
| katsmeow-afk | Mother Earth News | 22:19 |
| strangewarp | Oh, hmm. Might have been the original inspiration, then.. | 22:19 |
| katsmeow-afk | there was another that began alongside of it that got big too | 22:20 |
| katsmeow-afk | FOE was into ecoactivism/terrorism, MEN wasn't | 22:20 |
| lichen | lol, MEN | 22:20 |
| katsmeow-afk | iirc | 22:20 |
| lichen | pretty bad acronym for that | 22:20 |
| katsmeow-afk | it's after midnite, by brain is off | 22:21 |
| katsmeow-afk | yeas | 22:21 |
| katsmeow-afk | go into store, ask for MEN | 22:21 |
| strangewarp | Get entirely the wrong magazine :p | 22:22 |
| lichen | lol | 22:22 |
| Steel2 | Hmmm. | 22:27 |
| Steel2 | Yashgaroth, you around? | 22:27 |
| Yashgaroth | ! | 22:27 |
| Steel2 | Should I try to make an H+ house in north county when my dad moves back east and we're left with an empty 3600 square foot house in vista? | 22:28 |
| Steel2 | :V | 22:28 |
| Yashgaroth | how's the commute | 22:28 |
| Steel2 | eh | 22:29 |
| Steel2 | 30 mins to LJ | 22:29 |
| Steel2 | probably | 22:29 |
| katsmeow-afk | La Jolla? | 22:30 |
| Yashgaroth | yes | 22:30 |
| Yashgaroth | I can stop by on weekends but I ain't living there, it's further than carlsbad | 22:30 |
| Steel2 | yeah, it's 37 miles | 22:31 |
| Steel2 | I won't be down there but my mom might be. Maybe just throw get togethers when I'm in state | 22:31 |
| Yashgaroth | sure then | 22:32 |
| Steel2 | or drive up to LA | 22:32 |
| Yashgaroth | something particular in LA? | 22:44 |
| Steel2 | some more buddies, better bars | 22:44 |
| Steel2 | it depends what we can find that's central to everyone | 22:44 |
| lichen | heh, h+ house? | 22:45 |
| kanzure | can you dorks do me a huge favor? go do a google query and count the number of seconds for the page to load | 22:45 |
| lichen | google's gotten pretty obnoxious lately | 22:45 |
| kanzure | also paste the number that google claims it took (for me it's roughly 0.3 seconds on average) | 22:45 |
| Yashgaroth | 0.11 seconds | 22:45 |
| lichen | what search | 22:45 |
| lichen | pick a term | 22:45 |
| katsmeow-afk | so use duckduckgo | 22:46 |
| lichen | varying from .1-.2 | 22:46 |
| lichen | yeah, thats what i do already | 22:46 |
| lichen | heh | 22:46 |
| katsmeow-afk | google is doing tracking something fiercenow | 22:46 |
| Steel2 | I really don't like new google | 22:51 |
| Steel2 | *the browser | 22:52 |
| Steel2 | err | 22:52 |
| Steel2 | search engine | 22:52 |
| Steel2 | herp | 22:52 |
| katsmeow-afk | chrome? | 22:52 |
| katsmeow-afk | o | 22:52 |
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| kanzure | Yashgaroth: yes but how many seconds did you count | 22:56 |
| Yashgaroth | half of one | 22:56 |
| kanzure | it looks like google+ is the culprit | 22:57 |
| kanzure | without cookies or being logged in the load times are more sane/reasonable | 22:57 |
| kanzure | i wonder if the search page load time increases geometrically with the number of connections i have in google+ | 22:57 |
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| katsmeow-afk | i would rather not google picked search results based on my previous "viewing habits", and instead gave me the best search results that match the terms i supply | 22:59 |
| lichen | yeah | 23:00 |
| katsmeow-afk | when i search for "spoke" (past tense of speak) today, and search for "spoke" (wheel component) tomorrow, i do not want that taken into consideration in searching tomorrow | 23:00 |
| lichen | this is why i block all of google's shit | 23:00 |
| lichen | they do some things that in some lights sound like they could be a good idea | 23:00 |
| lichen | but in practice are terrribleeee | 23:01 |
| katsmeow-afk | gnites | 23:03 |
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| fenn | under 3 seconds logged in w/plus | 23:17 |
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| kanzure | fenn: you're cheating.. you guys pay for like a direct line to google | 23:23 |
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| klafka1 | really? | 23:36 |
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| kanzure | klafka1: yeh one of them works at google | 23:46 |
| kanzure | and puts the connection on the company's dime | 23:46 |
| klafka1 | aah | 23:49 |
| klafka1 | oh yeah i hear they do that | 23:50 |
| --- Log closed Wed Mar 14 00:00:50 2012 | ||
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