| --- Log opened Tue Mar 20 00:00:55 2012 | ||
| --- Day changed Tue Mar 20 2012 | ||
| joshcryer | energy is free :( | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| fenn | opinions are free | 00:04 |
| fenn | unless they are unpopular | 00:05 |
| fenn | i.e. i believe people should be sterilized if they have more than 7 kids | 00:05 |
| fenn | other people believe i should not have this opinion | 00:05 |
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| fenn | grmp | 00:06 |
| joshcryer | why 7? | 00:20 |
| fenn | because it's a lucky number | 00:21 |
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| fenn | anyone want to run for humanity+ board of directors? it's a great waste of time and annoys everyone in your address book | 01:08 |
| fenn | i wonder if mccabe accomplished anything he set out to do | 01:08 |
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| fenn | blargh | 02:13 |
| fenn | does this mean something? "maximum complexity awareness" | 02:13 |
| fenn | aka the size of a system or network beyond which it is impossible to make predictions | 02:14 |
| fenn | for a given predictor, i.e. a human | 02:14 |
| fenn | so i can read about biochemistry all day long and not even come close to covering KEGG, which is itself incomplete with regards to detail | 02:15 |
| fenn | a motion planner can only govern a robot with so many degrees of freedom before it poops out | 02:17 |
| fenn | a physics system can only simulate up to N bodies with the inverse square law before it bogs down | 02:18 |
| katsmeow-afk | question: how do you get http://www.genome.jp/kegg/pathway/map/map00010.html into a db in such a way the computer can know Glycerate-2P is mentioned and where it is in the pathway? | 02:21 |
| fenn | hum, "development of a taxonomy of human performance" (1968) http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/684583.pdf | 02:23 |
| katsmeow-afk | http://www.genome.jp/dbget-bin/www_bget?K01834+K01837+K15633+K15634+K15635+5.4.2.1+R01518 doesn't mention Glycerate-2P | 02:24 |
| fenn | katsmeow-afk: kegg IS a database | 02:24 |
| katsmeow-afk | http://www.wikipathways.org//index.php?query=Glycerate-2P&title=Special%3ASearchPathways&doSearch=1&sa=Search has yet to respond | 02:24 |
| fenn | i believe the maps are auto generated from the database | 02:24 |
| katsmeow-afk | ok, KEGG is the database, how does one know how to get the raw database, or xml/text describing the pathway immediate to Glycerate-2P ? | 02:25 |
| fenn | i searched for glycerate and found http://www.genome.jp/dbget-bin/www_bget?rn:R00658 | 02:26 |
| fenn | or is that the reverse reaction? | 02:26 |
| fenn | maybe this one? http://www.genome.jp/dbget-bin/www_bget?rn:R08572 | 02:28 |
| katsmeow-afk | according to http://www.genome.jp/kegg/pathway/map/map00010.html it's bidirectional | 02:28 |
| fenn | anyway there is a link on the right for "download rdf" | 02:28 |
| fenn | blah that's terrible | 02:29 |
| katsmeow-afk | yeas, no help | 02:29 |
| fenn | i have no idea how you're supposed to use this, sorry | 02:29 |
| katsmeow-afk | would it help in some way to be able to query in here, by any of the data ? | 02:31 |
| fenn | in general i'm skeptical of irc bots | 02:32 |
| katsmeow-afk | atm, i see no way of linking anything in http://www.genome.jp/dbget-bin/www_bget?rn:R00658 back to http://www.genome.jp/kegg/pathway/map/map00010.html , or vice versa | 02:33 |
| fenn | they might be unrelated | 02:33 |
| katsmeow-afk | well, that would explain it | 02:34 |
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| fenn | from http://www.genome.jp/dbget-bin/www_bget?map00010 download RDF gives you a list of reactions, the entities starting with R | 02:35 |
| fenn | i gotta say their usage of verbs just plain sucks | 02:36 |
| fenn | "original" and "reverse" are not verbs | 02:36 |
| fenn | geesh | 02:38 |
| * fenn labels it "bad usability" and returns to something productive | 02:38 | |
| katsmeow-afk | ah, the text is called "Pathway Entry" , in the sence of that beng the enry in the db, and not the chemicals entering the pathway | 02:38 |
| fenn | btw you can click on elements in the pathway map | 02:38 |
| fenn | it's an image map | 02:38 |
| katsmeow-afk | yes, the [number boxes] are clickable, but give me little | 02:39 |
| katsmeow-afk | oooo,, Ie is displaying differently, and gives me more interaction with the picture | 02:39 |
| katsmeow-afk | hold on while i take a bat to FF | 02:40 |
| katsmeow-afk | ok, i guess my question can be formed as an example, if you asked for data about phosphoenolpyruvate , you want anything back from the aethernet that freenode lives in? | 02:41 |
| katsmeow-afk | besides an echo | 02:41 |
| fenn | if there's a bot, i'd prefer if the bot responded only to directed inquiries | 02:43 |
| fenn | however i've seen these things abused in the past and it's just extra noise | 02:43 |
| katsmeow-afk | such inquiries take what form? | 02:43 |
| fenn | like "bot: what is phosphoenolpyruvate?" | 02:43 |
| katsmeow-afk | well, the data can be sent privately | 02:43 |
| katsmeow-afk | ah, that sorta direction, of course | 02:44 |
| fenn | one thing that could be helpful is automatically showing the title of youtube links when people don't explain why they're important | 02:44 |
| katsmeow-afk | spell checking and alt names and forms will be a bitch | 02:44 |
| fenn | i think we can get by with google for knowledge queries | 02:45 |
| * katsmeow-afk will ponder this a while | 02:45 | |
| katsmeow-afk | then i need not apply? | 02:45 |
| fenn | well, the code is less useful if it's running "elsewhere" as an external service, even if it has an API | 02:46 |
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| fenn | can't rely on having access to it, or future existence | 02:47 |
| fenn | consider two dictionary lookup programs | 02:47 |
| fenn | one has a dictionary file from which it displays entries | 02:48 |
| katsmeow-afk | you can say the same of google or KEGG | 02:48 |
| fenn | the other queries google and displays google's definition | 02:48 |
| fenn | i prefer the one with the dictionary file because it is always going to be there | 02:48 |
| katsmeow-afk | me too, even if google is there the reception can be bad | 02:49 |
| fenn | certainly | 02:49 |
| fenn | however, google has thousands of people working to make sure that it stays available, at least on the general internet | 02:49 |
| katsmeow-afk | but they do not check each and every answer google gives on the internet | 02:50 |
| fenn | so, given internet availability, it's a near certainty that google will also be available | 02:50 |
| fenn | it's another question entirely whether the answers are useful or reliable | 02:50 |
| katsmeow-afk | sometimes a word list is not the correct answer to "what is my dog doing?" | 02:50 |
| fenn | um, i think i'm rambling | 02:51 |
| * katsmeow-afk will think on it a while | 02:51 | |
| katsmeow-afk | i may even make up a db i can give to kanzure | 02:51 |
| fenn | i would love a quick lookup for foods in the usda database, i.e. "eggs" returns "eggs, whole, cooked" | 02:51 |
| fenn | instead of having to select obvious selections all the time | 02:51 |
| katsmeow-afk | how does getting "eggs, whole, cooked" as a return help you? | 02:52 |
| fenn | well, it would display the data for that entry | 02:52 |
| fenn | instead of requiring an extra step to select the entry to display | 02:52 |
| katsmeow-afk | what data would you like? Tiggr has gigabytes of food in various forms | 02:52 |
| fenn | here's what i'm currently using (sub optimal) http://nutritiondata.self.com/foods-eggs000000000000000000000.html | 02:53 |
| fenn | there's also a command line program called nut-nutrition which can display usda data, but it's similar | 02:54 |
| katsmeow-afk | wierd, it considered an egg on toast to be a baked good, and gave me this http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/baked-products/4840/2 | 02:55 |
| katsmeow-afk | the pics wold be difficult to show on irc | 02:55 |
| fenn | EGG,WHOLE,COOKED,FRIED | 02:55 |
| fenn | so i had to narrow the selection 3 times | 02:56 |
| fenn | i'm not even sure how to go about this except by learning what people click on | 02:56 |
| fenn | there's huge swaths of stuff that can be excluded because it wasn't specified, like anything from a fast food company unless you specify that company in the search query | 02:57 |
| katsmeow-afk | if you asked for ITEM on irc, and ITEM wasn't listed alone, just like egg isn't, you'd still have prompts to narrow the selection | 02:58 |
| katsmeow-afk | the only way i se to auto-narrow it is if the data for poached, fried, etc is identical, or at least close | 02:59 |
| fenn | also exclude "bar with foo" (where foo is what's being searched for) | 02:59 |
| katsmeow-afk | yeas, if yo ask for an ingredient of a cake, don't present cakes as options | 03:00 |
| katsmeow-afk | checking the 3 selections for egg substitutes, they aren't the same, even tho they are egg | 03:01 |
| katsmeow-afk | or not | 03:01 |
| katsmeow-afk | ok,, i need sleep, gnites | 03:03 |
| fenn | ciao | 03:04 |
| fenn | interesting risk benefit tradeoff matrix http://hprc-online.org/dietary-supplements/dietary-supplement-classification-system-1 | 03:08 |
| fenn | it's weak on data though | 03:10 |
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| fenn | why do fleishman and kinkade sound familiar | 03:27 |
| fenn | "a critical problem in the experimental study of factors affecting human performance is the lack of standard tasks and measures which can help integrate and compare results from various laboratories" | 03:36 |
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| fenn | ah here we go, the actual taxonomy itself (ignore earlier pdf) http://www.iosolutions.org/uploadedFiles/IOS/IO_Solutions/Research_and_Resources/Agency_Resources/White_Papers/Fleishman-white%20paper.pdf | 03:48 |
| fenn | human abilities taxonomy | 03:48 |
| fenn | well, it's not very abstract | 03:53 |
| fenn | also it's missing things, for example perseverance (willpower, focus, curiosity) | 03:55 |
| fenn | words words words | 03:56 |
| fenn | "One virtue is more of a virtue than two, because it is more of a knot for one's destiny to cling to." | 04:06 |
| fenn | "When virtue has slept, it will arise all the more vigorous." | 04:06 |
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| strages_work | need some help getting a paper from behind a paywall. anyone want to help? | 08:32 |
| strages_work | Laser Scribing of High-Performance and Flexible Graphene-Based Electrochemical Capacitors | 08:32 |
| Mokbortolan_ | paywalls are meant to keep the undesirables *away* from the information | 09:07 |
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| lichen | im pretty sure its more about money | 09:08 |
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| strangewarp | If I say it's about terrists, I get money from my paywall | 09:28 |
| strangewarp | terrists!!! | 09:28 |
| strangewarp | Also um uh, the proletariat!!! oooh spooky they do revolutions don'tcha know | 09:29 |
| strages_work | look I | 09:29 |
| strages_work | *I'm just interested in replicating the experiment | 09:29 |
| ThomasEgi | strages_work, tried to disable javascript? | 09:30 |
| ThomasEgi | it might not help, but i once had a online-newspaper where that did the trick already | 09:30 |
| strages_work | no I did not, I'll try that | 09:30 |
| kanzure | strages_work: http://ezproxy.free-webmaster-resources.org/ | 09:35 |
| strages_work | kanzure: 403 error | 09:36 |
| strages_work | and a login prompt if I try https | 09:37 |
| ThomasEgi | is the server located near you? | 09:38 |
| ThomasEgi | if so, get car with cisco logo and a coat+hat with the same. | 09:38 |
| ThomasEgi | walk in. make a backup of the server, walk out. | 09:38 |
| kanzure | "When I taught at Stanford Law School last year, I asked students what they planned to do with their lives. Most were headed to big law firms but didn’t expect to become partners and didn’t know the next step after that." | 09:45 |
| kanzure | "They didn’t have long-term plans about what they wanted to achieve in their lives. I think the educational system has become a major factor stopping people from thinking about the future. It’s far from equilibrium" | 09:45 |
| kanzure | "There is something like $1 trillion in student debt. A cynical view is that that represents $1 trillion worth of lies told about the value of higher education." | 09:45 |
| Mokbortolan_ | I disagree | 09:46 |
| ThomasEgi | reason №1 why i am running my own business besides studying | 09:47 |
| Mokbortolan_ | I think it's about $500 billion worth of education inflated due to lack of market pressures | 09:47 |
| Mokbortolan_ | though, overall, I think most education is probably good for us as a society | 09:57 |
| Mokbortolan_ | even if it doesn't necessarily translate into economic productivity | 09:57 |
| Mokbortolan_ | it (hopefully) creates a more informed citizenry capable of entertaining nuance and able to exercise some critical thinking skills | 09:58 |
| Mokbortolan_ | which is probably why the right wing is opposed to it :p | 09:58 |
| ThomasEgi | just. for a split of a second. imagine all people to educate themselves and being productive in their spare time, instead of watching tv. | 09:59 |
| Mokbortolan_ | that would be a vastly more disciplined society than what exists now :p | 10:00 |
| Mokbortolan_ | although, it could be argued that the early education system and parental attitudes toward education is what created the current situation, where additional education is used as punishment for our youth | 10:01 |
| ThomasEgi | and the prize for getting through the educational system is to be able to work, and be lazy | 10:03 |
| Mokbortolan_ | I get the impression that for many, thinking and learning is exhausting or painful | 10:04 |
| Mokbortolan_ | I don't know if that's a learned attitude or a characteristic of the "average" mind | 10:04 |
| ThomasEgi | probably learned attitude | 10:07 |
| ThomasEgi | if all you get to do is learning, for like 10 to 20 years | 10:07 |
| ThomasEgi | you get fed up with it | 10:07 |
| ThomasEgi | the educational system simply lacks all balance | 10:07 |
| ThomasEgi | you get no chance to make any use of the knowledge you get | 10:07 |
| ThomasEgi | and the brain naturally wants to get rid of stuff it never needs. | 10:08 |
| ThomasEgi | evolution didn't build men to learn all day long , and do nothing else for many years. | 10:11 |
| Mokbortolan_ | I dunno, I never got fed up with learning | 10:12 |
| Mokbortolan_ | though, if it were presented as a negative or drudgery, one might get fed up | 10:12 |
| ThomasEgi | hehe. neither do i. but then i vastly ignore the content in school and university | 10:12 |
| ThomasEgi | and focus on what i want to do. and learning stuff that helps me to get the things done that i want to see done. that's a great way to learn | 10:13 |
| Mokbortolan_ | I engulfed it, finished my textbooks by the end of the second week, then got in trouble for reading other stuff the rest of the year :p | 10:13 |
| ThomasEgi | hehe | 10:13 |
| Mokbortolan_ | reading my biology textbook in english class 'cos I had already finished the english testbook... | 10:14 |
| Mokbortolan_ | -s +x | 10:14 |
| ThomasEgi | hm. i am not the book person | 10:14 |
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| ThomasEgi | i hardly read anything other than scientific papers, datasheets, and convos | 10:14 |
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| Mokbortolan_ | oh, this was in middle school | 10:15 |
| Mokbortolan_ | in elementary school I read literature because the textbooks were boring | 10:15 |
| Mokbortolan_ | sort of alienated me socially though | 10:16 |
| Mokbortolan_ | probably why they created the "gifted" class | 10:16 |
| ThomasEgi | alienating for the willingness to advance his own abilities is not uncommon | 10:17 |
| Mokbortolan_ | I kept moving as a kid though, went through 9 schools | 10:19 |
| Mokbortolan_ | being the perennial "new kid" meant that I eventually stopped attempting/caring about trying to fit into the social structures | 10:19 |
| kanzure | http://biospace.ca/ | 10:19 |
| kanzure | On Tue, Mar 20, 2012 at 11:17 AM, Kris Constable <kris@ideawave.ca> wrote: | 10:19 |
| kanzure | My name is Kris, and I'll be visiting from Vancouver island, Canada, | 10:19 |
| kanzure | this week-end. Working with Derek Jacoby, and we'll be launching | 10:19 |
| kanzure | would be great to meet any of you who are interested, as well as check | 10:19 |
| kanzure | out any bio-tech spaces in the area. | 10:19 |
| kanzure | (Also interested in hackerspaces/makerspaces in general). Any must see | 10:19 |
| kanzure | Canada's first bio-tech community lab on DNA day, biospace.ca. It | 10:19 |
| kanzure | venues in the Boston area? Any classes or events happening this week- | 10:19 |
| kanzure | end that might be of interest? | 10:20 |
| kanzure | bah mac's new site.. http://diybioftw.com/ | 10:22 |
| kanzure | http://diybioftw.com/post/17185535477/the-story-so-far | 10:23 |
| kanzure | this looks like tumblr | 10:23 |
| kanzure | fuck tumblr | 10:23 |
| kanzure | "Results: Lots of enthusiasm, not so many sales. The conference was mostly attended by world-experts in barcoding who really did not need the process to be simpler. The market we had hypothesized about was not really at the conference. This made sense in retrospect, but we didn’t understand the user community enough to know this in advance" | 10:23 |
| kanzure | "Fast-forward to today: we still are selling our barcoding kit and we have a launched a barcoding service. We believe the service will overcome the technical barriers that may have been reducing interest in genelaser by consumers. But do we have a testable hypothesis?" | 10:23 |
| kanzure | iirc josh is no longer working with mac on that company (seqify/cofactorbio) | 10:24 |
| kanzure | jrayhawk: http://wonder-tonic.com/geocitiesizer/ | 10:39 |
| chris_99 | strages_work, still need that paper?, just got it | 10:39 |
| kanzure | i like this one: http://wonder-tonic.com/geocitiesizer/images/notepad.gif "site created with notepad THE RIGHT WAY" | 10:40 |
| strages_work | chris_99: yes I do | 10:42 |
| chris_99 | strages_work, if you PM your email i'll send it to you | 10:42 |
| strages_work | excellent, thanks | 10:42 |
| ybit | will someone post the paper to r/scholar or link to it? | 10:53 |
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| kanzure | hi ybit | 10:54 |
| katsmeow-afk | [11:38] <ThomasEgi> if so, get car with cisco logo and a coat+hat with the same. | 10:54 |
| katsmeow-afk | [11:39] <ThomasEgi> walk in. make a backup of the server, walk out. | 10:54 |
| katsmeow-afk | ThomasEgi , that actually works, i have a truck with all city logos and stickers except the city name, and everywhere i go i am allowed access where i shouldn't be | 10:54 |
| katsmeow-afk | cops are all too eager to make it even easier for me | 10:54 |
| ybit | hello | 10:58 |
| katsmeow-afk | re: education : i want to know how to (two) use people's (peoples) written grammar (grammer) as a way to (too) limit their (there) income , there's (theyr's) too (to) many rich humans (human's) who (whom) don't (dont) have a clue how to communicate | 10:58 |
| katsmeow-afk | hi ybit | 10:59 |
| ThomasEgi | i dont know the precise reason.. but i feel like punshing something now | 11:00 |
| katsmeow-afk | i know a millionare (inheritance) who doesn't know the diff tween "your" and "you're", and i am living in poverty and percieved as stupid | 11:00 |
| lichen | confusing homonyms is a very specific kind of 'intelligence' and not necessarily an indicator of much beyond specific memory | 11:03 |
| lichen | there was a point (before mass written language really) where spelling was a very personal thing | 11:04 |
| lichen | people spelled out words how it made sense to them and your writing style included your own personal spelling | 11:04 |
| katsmeow-afk | those last two are not a homonyms , they aren't to be pronounced the same way | 11:04 |
| lichen | fits in the same category though | 11:04 |
| lichen | i know ive accidently slipped them up when typing quickly sometimes | 11:05 |
| lichen | not because i dont know which to use but because im ejecting words faster than my subconscious culls mistakes | 11:05 |
| katsmeow-afk | "it's a poor mind that cannot find more than one way to spell a word" , but still, to not know the difference tween one word and another? | 11:05 |
| lichen | yeah | 11:06 |
| lichen | im not saying its not a problem, but just that there are many facets to intelligence and some people dont prioritize spelling and grammar as much as spatial or rational reasoning | 11:06 |
| lichen | but that makes it a lot harder to communicate with them | 11:06 |
| katsmeow-afk | "your" and "you're" aren't homonyms, because much like the contraction of "you are", the ennunciation of the word carries the remanents of the original two words, which are not present in "your" | 11:07 |
| lichen | i'm aware they're seperate | 11:07 |
| katsmeow-afk | ok, this rich person actually equates the two words | 11:07 |
| lichen | but they're still closely pronounced, much like people confusing effect/affect | 11:07 |
| lichen | lol | 11:07 |
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| kanzure | katsmeow-afk: i doubt he wrote it | 11:08 |
| kanzure | i think this was fukuyama or whoever | 11:08 |
| kanzure | wait, what are we talking about? | 11:08 |
| katsmeow-afk | and i have run into paid employees of telcom firm who equate "bit" and "byte", saying they are alt spellings/pronunciatons of the same thing | 11:08 |
| lichen | ew | 11:08 |
| lichen | fire them on the spot | 11:08 |
| katsmeow-afk | i would, if i could | 11:08 |
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| lichen | i just had a phone interview with intel this morning | 11:09 |
| katsmeow-afk | kansure, doubt who wrote what? | 11:09 |
| kanzure | lichen: what position? | 11:09 |
| lichen | entry-level graphics engineer in test | 11:09 |
| kanzure | "graphics engineer" means what? gpu? | 11:09 |
| kanzure | so writing unit tests for GPUs? | 11:09 |
| lichen | testing drivers and graphic software on various hardware | 11:09 |
| lichen | making sure it all outputs correctly | 11:10 |
| lichen | and that the SDKs for developers work correctly | 11:10 |
| kanzure | what sdks does intel release anyway | 11:10 |
| kanzure | i mean, for graphics-related things | 11:10 |
| lichen | example code for graphics | 11:10 |
| kanzure | hrm | 11:10 |
| lichen | he said there are two other applicants | 11:11 |
| * katsmeow-afk has needed a svga signal for the longest time to keep the monitors from shutting down between times the kvm switches from one computer to the next,, every switch means the monitor goes thru a complete backlighting restrike and auto-adjust cycle | 11:11 | |
| lichen | so i wont really know if i get the job for a week | 11:11 |
| kanzure | lichen: assume you will not get it | 11:12 |
| lichen | basically | 11:12 |
| kanzure | i know it sounds harsh but you save yourself a week of not doing anything | 11:12 |
| lichen | i assume nothing | 11:12 |
| lichen | ive got a job right now so im not in a critical situation | 11:12 |
| lichen | but i hate this job | 11:12 |
| kanzure | that's the way to do it :) | 11:12 |
| kanzure | well. without hating it. | 11:12 |
| lichen | so the sooner i can get out the better | 11:12 |
| kanzure | what are you doing anyway? | 11:13 |
| kanzure | i think bkero worked for a while at intel | 11:14 |
| kanzure | bkero: ping | 11:14 |
| lichen | right now i just have a shit warehouse job | 11:14 |
| lichen | so im really just looking to get into the tech industry | 11:14 |
| kanzure | have you ever done an "in test" job before? | 11:14 |
| kanzure | i mean: writing unit tests all day | 11:14 |
| lichen | no | 11:15 |
| lichen | im pretty sure i can handle it though | 11:15 |
| lichen | its not my dream job but its just a contract position | 11:15 |
| lichen | and pays well | 11:15 |
| katsmeow-afk | luv politicians: "and our commitment to seizing new opportunities for cooperation with Pacific neighbors" = "our Manifest Destiny to steal lands and enslave the occupants where ever we can" | 11:16 |
| kanzure | cost per base pair of synthetic dna: http://www.synthesis.cc/assets_c/2011/06/carlson_synthesis_cost_per_base_june_2011-thumb-400x315.png | 11:19 |
| kanzure | "the pace and proliferation of biotechnologies" (2003) http://www.synthesis.cc/writing/Carlson_Pace_and_Prolif.pdf | 11:20 |
| kanzure | http://pathogenomics.bham.ac.uk/blog/2012/02/oxford-nanopore-megaton-announcement-why-do-you-need-a-machine-exclusive-interview-for-this-blog/ | 11:22 |
| kanzure | blah it doesn't actually answer the "why do you need a machine" | 11:23 |
| kanzure | (of course, i agree you need a machine, i just figure everyone's explanation to non-biologists sucks) | 11:23 |
| katsmeow-afk | "lotta parts like a really big puzzle that go together only one way" | 11:28 |
| * katsmeow-afk is practiced in the use of tiny vocabularies using mostly single syllable words, misuse and mis pronunciation, and twisted meanings of words | 11:34 | |
| katsmeow-afk | to travel the interstate = gao day-own the rah-ode | 11:36 |
| katsmeow-afk | bbl | 11:37 |
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| bkero | kanzure: pong | 12:38 |
| bkero | yes I did work at intel for a while | 12:38 |
| kanzure | i see | 12:44 |
| archels | http://my20percent.wordpress.com/2012/02/27/baseball-cap-head-up-displa/ | 12:47 |
| kanzure | until you get hit with a baseball | 12:49 |
| kanzure | or am i misinterpreting | 12:49 |
| uniqanomaly | http://www.infoq.com/presentations/Searching-Without-Objectives awesome "Kenneth O. Stanley considers that innovation is stifled when we are strictly following a high goal, and we would progress more when we are inclined to discovery rather than following an objective. " | 12:55 |
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| strangewarp | Oh derp, that's dumb | 13:50 |
| strangewarp | ... Oh, wrong channel | 13:50 |
| strangewarp | whoop! | 13:50 |
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| katsmeow-afk | fenn, even the usda db is nonoptimal, it has both "Garlic, raw" and "Spices, garlic powder", i don't understand, is this like saying an ice cube has different nutritional value than the equal weight of water? | 14:07 |
| katsmeow-afk | or crushing the ice cube changes it's nutritional value? | 14:09 |
| nathaniel | dehydrating and pulverizing does change the nutritional value per gram | 14:14 |
| nathaniel | and possibly removes some water- and oil-soluble contents | 14:14 |
| katsmeow-afk | removing the water leaved the solubles behind, the basis of distilling | 14:15 |
| nathaniel | the first part still applies, though | 14:15 |
| katsmeow-afk | you didn't say why | 14:16 |
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| katsmeow-afk | is a crushed not still ice? | 14:16 |
| nathaniel | water has no nutritional value. so when you take out the water, you're left with more nutritional value per the same amount of mass | 14:16 |
| katsmeow-afk | lol | 14:17 |
| nathaniel | and the pulverization process then changes the density of the garlic | 14:17 |
| katsmeow-afk | yeas, it's generally less dense | 14:17 |
| katsmeow-afk | ok | 14:17 |
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| nathaniel | ice vs. water is a phase change. garlic powderizing is, as you point out, a distillation process. :> | 14:18 |
| katsmeow-afk | i know you mean differently now, but i am still lol over <nathaniel> water has no nutritional value. so when you take out the water, you're left with more nutritional value per the same amount of mass <<== aka the bottom of the pan the water was in | 14:20 |
| katsmeow-afk | lots of iron | 14:20 |
| nathaniel | lol. I didn't notice the ambiguity | 14:21 |
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| katsmeow-afk | :-) | 14:22 |
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| kanzure | http://inscight.org/2011/05/24/episode-14-accessible-science-with-hacker-space/ | 15:01 |
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| fenn | "Machine Learning including a special robotics demonstration from Microsoft" microsoft unveils the T-800 | 17:20 |
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| kanzure | jrayhawk: what do i want for private repos in piny again? | 17:44 |
| kanzure | 0660? | 17:44 |
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| fenn | so a directory is drwxrwsr-x and i'm in the group, shouldn't i be able to make a new file? | 18:24 |
| kanzure | rmrepo seems to ignore deleting iki-reponame | 18:24 |
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| kanzure | audy: i'm in it | 18:38 |
| kanzure | heh | 18:38 |
| audy | kanzure is it any good? | 18:38 |
| audy | kanzure (also you're everywhere) | 18:38 |
| kanzure | it's a nice book i guess | 18:39 |
| kanzure | i recall not having a tremendously bad reaction to it | 18:39 |
| kanzure | i am a little angry that none of us "hackers" have a scanned copy of it yet | 18:40 |
| kanzure | what the hell is wrong with all of us? | 18:40 |
| audy | kanzure you wouldn't download a car | 18:41 |
| thesnark|afk | you wouldn | 18:41 |
| thesnark|afk | erm | 18:42 |
| thesnark|afk | you wouldn't steal a baby | 18:42 |
| thesnark|afk | you wouldn't shoot a police officer | 18:42 |
| thesnark|afk | downloading music is stealing | 18:42 |
| kanzure | you wouldn't rape a baby | 18:42 |
| audy | I ordered it off of Amazon | 18:43 |
| audy | I don't have a scanner | 18:43 |
| thesnark|afk | they sell babies on Amazon? | 18:43 |
| thesnark|afk | awesome | 18:43 |
| audy | thesnark|afk you can lease thousands of them by the minute | 18:43 |
| fenn | er, which book? | 18:45 |
| audy | "Biopunk: DIY Scientists Hack the Software of Life" | 18:46 |
| fenn | radical, dude!!!1 | 18:46 |
| kanzure | have you read it fenn | 18:46 |
| fenn | no | 18:46 |
| Mokbortolan_ | hah, "biopunk" | 18:46 |
| fenn | books are for proles | 18:46 |
| thesnark|afk | fenn lolololol | 18:47 |
| kanzure | splicer: hey man they're narfing on your terf | 18:50 |
| kanzure | turf | 18:50 |
| Vicarious | hi | 18:52 |
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| kanzure | hi yashgaroth | 19:12 |
| yashgaroth | yo | 19:12 |
| kanzure | you have your full proposal written up yet :x | 19:12 |
| yashgaroth | I have an equipment list with approximate prices, if that's what you're after | 19:12 |
| kanzure | neat | 19:13 |
| kanzure | that sounds useul | 19:13 |
| kanzure | useful :( | 19:13 |
| yashgaroth | physical centrifuges and stuff comes out to about 50k | 19:14 |
| kanzure | i bet you did your math wrong | 19:14 |
| kanzure | let's see it | 19:15 |
| yashgaroth | you want I should DCC it to you? | 19:15 |
| kanzure | no | 19:15 |
| yashgaroth | email? I'm not pasting 50 lines into chat here | 19:15 |
| kanzure | fine, email :| | 19:16 |
| yashgaroth | I mean, I can do it here, just don't know if freenode will kick me for flooding | 19:17 |
| kanzure | i'll upload it somewhere once you email | 19:17 |
| kanzure | it. | 19:17 |
| fenn | http://pastebin.ca/ | 19:17 |
| yashgaroth | k, sent | 19:21 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/myostatin/yashgaroth-equipment.txt | 19:21 |
| yashgaroth | my tab formatting is crashing down around me | 19:22 |
| kanzure | tabs are pretty evil | 19:22 |
| kanzure | $30k on a centrifuge+hood? | 19:23 |
| yashgaroth | it's not a microfuge, you need a large refrigerated one | 19:23 |
| kanzure | sure.. an ultracentrifuge | 19:23 |
| yashgaroth | not ultra, just large | 19:23 |
| kanzure | aw | 19:23 |
| yashgaroth | maximum g's is like 20,000 | 19:23 |
| yashgaroth | actually scripps research has a bunch of ultrafuges that anyone can just use, though you're not supposed to | 19:25 |
| yashgaroth | open access building, fuges and freezers crammed in the hallways, no one keeping an eye on them | 19:25 |
| kanzure | knowing that your electronics knowledge is zero.. i don't think your ultrafuge estimate is correct | 19:26 |
| kanzure | i doubt it would cost more than $4k in parts | 19:26 |
| yashgaroth | I'm not really comfortable with building the only piece of equipment that could easily kill me if it wanted to | 19:27 |
| yashgaroth | most of the cost is rotors, since that shit's hella precision | 19:28 |
| yashgaroth | the motor's easy, but the balance compensators and such, that's out of my realm | 19:28 |
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| fenn | 80krpm for $8k http://www.dotmed.com/listing/centrifuge/beckman/coulter-l8-80m-ultracentrifuge/902633?utm_source=base&utm_medium=search&utm_campaign=Base | 19:36 |
| fenn | does this mean they don't come with rotors? | 19:37 |
| yashgaroth | yes it does | 19:37 |
| yashgaroth | that they don't | 19:37 |
| fenn | i'm seeing 50ml rotors for like $5k | 19:38 |
| yashgaroth | fixed or bucket? | 19:38 |
| fenn | fixed | 19:38 |
| yashgaroth | ehhh link? | 19:39 |
| fenn | http://www.labx.com/v2/adsearch/detail3.cfm?adnumb=457364 | 19:39 |
| fenn | sorry that might have been confusing, it takes 8x 8ml tubes | 19:40 |
| fenn | i had no idea these things are so expensive | 19:40 |
| yashgaroth | yep, and they get more expensive the bigger they get | 19:41 |
| kanzure | sounds like BS to me? | 19:41 |
| fenn | http://www.amazon.com/Eppendorf-022637207-Fixed-Angle-Centrifuge-Centrifuges/dp/B005GRFSWW | 19:41 |
| fenn | i think that's what you want right? | 19:41 |
| kanzure | is there any actual reason they cost so much | 19:41 |
| fenn | low demand | 19:41 |
| kanzure | ok but i mean.. get a chunk of metal, cut shit up | 19:42 |
| yashgaroth | because when you impart a 20 pound block of metal with enough force to destroy the centrifuge, you want precision | 19:42 |
| fenn | somebody else's money syndrome | 19:42 |
| kanzure | yashgaroth: precision isn't some magical scarce resource | 19:42 |
| yashgaroth | that too, especially considering the rotors don't break | 19:42 |
| fenn | it has to be dynamically balanced, which means finding someone with a balancer to do that | 19:43 |
| fenn | actually that's not true | 19:44 |
| fenn | the technician running the centrifuge can mess up and add whatever amount of liquid to each tube, yet somehow we dont hear about people dying in centrifuge accidents all the time | 19:44 |
| yashgaroth | because they detect imbalances and stop | 19:44 |
| yashgaroth | usually it's people losing feet when they drop a rotor | 19:45 |
| fenn | hehe "Amazon Science Forum: why are people here so scientifically illiterate? 8792 replies" | 19:45 |
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| fenn | i think we should make some lab equipment | 19:50 |
| fenn | shaking incubator = styrofoam box and a motor | 19:51 |
| kanzure | i agree | 19:51 |
| yashgaroth | and temperature control | 19:51 |
| fenn | yashgaroth: why do you need to centrifuge 1L at a time? i assume this is for protein purification? | 19:51 |
| yashgaroth | no, pelleting of bacterial cultures | 19:52 |
| fenn | can't that be done chemically? | 19:52 |
| fenn | flocculation | 19:52 |
| yashgaroth | that leaves a bunch of the cell culture media, even if you do get it to work | 19:53 |
| yashgaroth | which will then fuck up your subsequent steps | 19:53 |
| n_bentha | yeah! | 19:53 |
| n_bentha | you could make a 3d-print of a rotor and housing assembly, right? | 19:54 |
| n_bentha | using cnc and aluminium blocks? | 19:54 |
| fenn | yes. | 19:54 |
| n_bentha | it'd be expensive...but maybe less than 8k? | 19:54 |
| yashgaroth | you can't use aluminum, it sucks | 19:55 |
| kanzure | there are many ways to make this for way less | 19:55 |
| fenn | anyway it boils down to a labor vs equipment tradeoff | 19:55 |
| kanzure | yashgaroth is just being crazy | 19:55 |
| yashgaroth | I wish I had more than pittance of money, I don't wanna have to deal with shit like 'oh the tape holding together my spectrometer came off and now this batch is useless' | 19:56 |
| n_bentha | hahahah | 19:56 |
| n_bentha | that really sux tho if tape is holding you back | 19:57 |
| n_bentha | sorry | 19:57 |
| yashgaroth | figurative tape, but yeah | 19:58 |
| fenn | personally i find most existing commercial lab equipment to be sub optimal | 20:01 |
| fenn | maybe i've just been using out of date technology | 20:02 |
| n_bentha | the new stuff works pretty well imho | 20:02 |
| fenn | seems like an avr and some magic sensor dust would improve usability several orders of magnitude | 20:03 |
| yashgaroth | oh man, moving from a cuvette-based spec to a nanodrop was so awesome | 20:03 |
| bkero | kanzure: yo | 20:03 |
| n_bentha | ugh. i hate cuvettes. cleaning them 1000x is so annoying | 20:03 |
| n_bentha | especially w/ bacteria | 20:03 |
| kanzure | hi bkero | 20:03 |
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| bkero | kanzure: you wanted something the other day? | 20:04 |
| kanzure | nope | 20:04 |
| kanzure | you might be able to bestow intel advice onto lichen | 20:04 |
| bkero | oh | 20:04 |
| bkero | ok | 20:04 |
| bkero | lichen: sup | 20:04 |
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| * n_bentha decides to ge some lichen to produce dmt | 20:05 | |
| fenn | duude, you could like, make some transgenic mimosa hostilis | 20:05 |
| n_bentha | or just some kick-ass mimosas? | 20:06 |
| n_bentha | my mimosas bring all the girls to the yard | 20:07 |
| * n_bentha starts dancing | 20:07 | |
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| kanzure | On Tue, Mar 20, 2012 at 10:26 PM, Dan Wright <djwrister@gmail.com> wrote: | 20:35 |
| kanzure | > Hey Brian, | 20:35 |
| kanzure | > I want to thank you for sending out the info on Hacking Medicine at MIT. | 20:35 |
| kanzure | > I attended on behalf of LABioHackers. It was quite illuminating. | 20:35 |
| kanzure | er.. biohackers.la knows me pretty well.. i wonder why dan doesn't think he knows me already | 20:35 |
| kanzure | so confused | 20:36 |
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| * ybit is wondering if it's worth his time to attend: http://mullai.uah.edu/~ravindra/SEAS2012.html | 21:06 | |
| ybit | i'm thinking yes... but i don't care for paying $60 | 21:08 |
| Steel2 | ybit, are you a mathemetician? | 21:08 |
| ybit | Steel2: nope, just a curious netizen | 21:09 |
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| Steel2 | any other up and coming musicians in here besides strangewarp? | 21:10 |
| ybit | i refuse to link to my music dedicated to the drunken rabbit god | 21:10 |
| Steel2 | hah | 21:10 |
| ybit | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aztec_mythology | 21:12 |
| ybit | gn all | 21:12 |
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| kanzure | http://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/54525-do-it-yourself-biotech/ | 21:21 |
| kanzure | "Recommended online education sources were: GetHub, Instructables, and Hack A Day" | 21:26 |
| kanzure | oh dear.. i am afraid ben hyink doesn't know about github | 21:26 |
| kanzure | or he considers it educational | 21:26 |
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| lichen | someone asked for me? | 21:30 |
| lichen | bkero: hey | 21:32 |
| bkero | lichen: howdy | 21:32 |
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| lichen | yeah im in the midst of applying to intel | 21:33 |
| lichen | they want a second phone interview | 21:33 |
| bkero | oregon? | 21:33 |
| lichen | yeah | 21:33 |
| lichen | pretty simple position | 21:34 |
| bkero | ok | 21:35 |
| bkero | I'm in Oregon | 21:35 |
| bkero | I interned ther | 21:35 |
| bkero | there | 21:35 |
| bkero | what dept? | 21:35 |
| lichen | yeah? | 21:35 |
| lichen | i'd be a junior graphics software engineer in test | 21:35 |
| lichen | making sure the software samples they supply to developers are correct | 21:35 |
| lichen | and that everything ports from maya/3ds max correctly | 21:36 |
| bkero | ok | 21:36 |
| lichen | what did you do there | 21:38 |
| bkero | unix server operations | 21:38 |
| lichen | ah | 21:38 |
| bkero | Well good luck in the interview sir | 21:39 |
| lichen | ma'am | 21:39 |
| lichen | first interview went okay, but i had trouble recalling some matrix math (its been like two years since i took linear) | 21:40 |
| lichen | apparently they didnt care that much if they want a second interview | 21:40 |
| kanzure | why the fuck would you need matrix math for unit testing | 21:40 |
| kanzure | and even if you do, why wouldn't you look it up? | 21:40 |
| lichen | its in graphics | 21:40 |
| kanzure | so? :) | 21:40 |
| lichen | yeah i know he didnt seem to care much | 21:40 |
| lichen | i knew what he was talking about though and i guess that was enough | 21:40 |
| kanzure | if they need to hire someone to test basic matrix math libraries, they are in more trouble than you know | 21:41 |
| lichen | kind of disappointed in my memory though that i didnt remember how to make a scalar matrix | 21:41 |
| lichen | (when its just an identity matrix multiplied by a scalar) | 21:41 |
| lichen | yeah im aware | 21:41 |
| lichen | its not about what i need to implement but to make sure im capable | 21:41 |
| lichen | at least he didnt ask me any brain teaser programming problems | 21:43 |
| lichen | which usually amounts to 'how many algos have you memorized?' | 21:43 |
| lichen | hey bkero whats the office culture there like | 21:45 |
| bkero | lichen: more boring than you could possibly imagine | 21:46 |
| lichen | hahaha | 21:46 |
| bkero | srs | 21:46 |
| lichen | yeah... not really surprising | 21:46 |
| lichen | im just trying to break into the industry | 21:46 |
| lichen | job i'm looking at is 6 to 18 months contract | 21:46 |
| lichen | do they expect business causal? | 21:47 |
| kanzure | uh | 21:55 |
| kanzure | do any of you have a pile of app ideas | 21:55 |
| kanzure | for mobile? | 21:55 |
| lichen | ? | 21:56 |
| kanzure | i have this team of programmers | 21:56 |
| kanzure | and uh, my list is dry | 21:56 |
| Steel2 | what sort of programmers and what sort of app ideas? | 21:56 |
| kanzure | win 6 | 21:56 |
| kanzure | ioasdkjfka | 21:56 |
| lichen | thats unusual | 21:56 |
| Steel2 | games? | 21:56 |
| kanzure | Steel2: mobile, mobile games | 21:56 |
| Steel2 | sure, I have one at least | 21:56 |
| lichen | programmers usually have way, way more ideas than time to implement | 21:56 |
| kanzure | Steel2: let's hear it | 21:56 |
| kanzure | lichen: i have tons of ideas, just not for mobile :) | 21:56 |
| kanzure | i especially want to hear any transhumanist-related ideas | 21:57 |
| lichen | ive got a huge one | 21:57 |
| kanzure | oh, what about hplusvideos for mobile | 21:57 |
| Steel2 | zombie tower defense, pulls streets off of google maps, defend actual locations, have 'leaderboards' for major places (ie new york times square), you get 'reinforcements' as your points | 21:57 |
| kanzure | how about Google Street View Fighter | 21:57 |
| Steel2 | tower defense is more popular on mobile afaik | 21:58 |
| kanzure | lichen: what's the idea? | 21:59 |
| lichen | im still trying to plan out the structure of it all | 22:00 |
| bkero | lichen: for an interview, yes | 22:00 |
| lichen | bkero: they havent asked for an in-person interview yet | 22:00 |
| Steel2 | kanzure: universal unit converter | 22:00 |
| Steel2 | can't really make money on that | 22:00 |
| lichen | but i meant just regular work attire | 22:00 |
| lichen | 'business casual' for women is confusing and annoying | 22:00 |
| Steel2 | lichen: slacks and a neutral blouse | 22:01 |
| bkero | just wear a button up shirt and some not shitty pants | 22:01 |
| Steel2 | alternately pants part of a pantsuit + blouse | 22:01 |
| bkero | or blouse | 22:01 |
| lichen | kanzure: but the simple description is a way to tie together all of your devices into one personal cloud dropbox-style, with an api to make it easy to make programs work across it (automating the networked threading) | 22:01 |
| bkero | After the interview you can wear shorts and sandals | 22:01 |
| Steel2 | ooh, what about a pre-configured academic rss feed reader? | 22:02 |
| lichen | alright cool | 22:02 |
| kanzure | lichen: how about using dropbox? wtf | 22:02 |
| lichen | not for files | 22:02 |
| lichen | for hardware | 22:02 |
| kanzure | Steel2: doesn't have to make money | 22:02 |
| Steel2 | ah, k | 22:02 |
| kanzure | lichen: wait, you're female? | 22:03 |
| lichen | you didnt know that? | 22:03 |
| Steel2 | something that pulled data from all the major universities department pages, possibly sorted into research vs administrative announcements | 22:03 |
| kanzure | lichen: nobody on the interwebs is female | 22:03 |
| kanzure | and even if you are, you lie | 22:03 |
| lichen | especially in the h+ scene, amirite? | 22:03 |
| Steel2 | Molybdenum is female :P | 22:03 |
| kanzure | what | 22:03 |
| Steel2 | when she's in here | 22:03 |
| kanzure | what the fuck? | 22:03 |
| kanzure | lies | 22:03 |
| Steel2 | nope | 22:03 |
| kanzure | Steel2: pull what data from universities? hm? | 22:04 |
| Steel2 | granted, gender should be irrelevant, aside from the rampant misogyny a lot of nerds put forth... | 22:04 |
| kanzure | i think it might be cool to keep track of professors at universities, by scraping their sites | 22:04 |
| lichen | yeah im kind of afraid to go into a CS job | 22:04 |
| lichen | because theyre notorious for that | 22:04 |
| Steel2 | http://meche.mit.edu/news/mechenews/ like this | 22:04 |
| kanzure | lichen: just remember, as a female you can demand more pay | 22:04 |
| katsmeow-afk | heh | 22:05 |
| kanzure | "Because i'm so rare, blah blah blah" | 22:05 |
| lichen | im not getting into a debate about reverse sexism | 22:05 |
| kanzure | well, that's not how you argue or it | 22:05 |
| Steel2 | yes, and katsmeow is female | 22:05 |
| kanzure | katsmeow is *allegedly* female | 22:05 |
| kanzure | and so is lichen/molybdenio | 22:05 |
| Steel2 | it's her preferred pronoun | 22:05 |
| Steel2 | that's good enough for me | 22:05 |
| kanzure | oh well | 22:05 |
| kanzure | ok... but really | 22:05 |
| kanzure | app ideas. | 22:05 |
| katsmeow-afk | not gonna have sex with you to prove it | 22:06 |
| kanzure | katsmeow-afk: i don't think that's appropriate | 22:06 |
| katsmeow-afk | whew | 22:06 |
| Steel2 | what about pulling automatic emergency numbers for your area based on GPS? | 22:06 |
| Steel2 | as well as possible situational buttons ('Lawyer') | 22:06 |
| kanzure | gps provides emergency numbers? | 22:06 |
| kanzure | or do you mean a lookup service? | 22:07 |
| lichen | thats where the coding comes in | 22:07 |
| Steel2 | no, but if there's a way to automatically look up numbers | 22:07 |
| Steel2 | based on where you are | 22:07 |
| kanzure | maybe i should just force them to work on web apps | 22:07 |
| Steel2 | figure out a protein folding equivalent game | 22:08 |
| Steel2 | one of those giant pain in the ass problems | 22:08 |
| Steel2 | gamify it | 22:08 |
| lichen | protein folding on phones sounds really slow | 22:08 |
| Steel2 | he said web apps | 22:08 |
| Steel2 | lol | 22:08 |
| lichen | if you feel like fronting the cluster to host that, sure | 22:09 |
| Steel2 | heh, he asked for ideas, not implementation | 22:09 |
| lichen | though i guess crowdsourcing the brains stops you from needing that | 22:09 |
| kanzure | copying a pre-existing app is also doable | 22:12 |
| lichen | but mostly pointless | 22:12 |
| kanzure | *shrug* not really | 22:12 |
| Steel2 | doing it better is another way | 22:14 |
| lichen | ^ | 22:15 |
| Steel2 | one click contact sync for android--something to make it save to my phone, google contacts AND my SIM card all at once | 22:16 |
| kanzure | http://gameloft.com/ | 22:18 |
| kanzure | all of these things are possible | 22:18 |
| kanzure | gps + phone numbers just sounds lame in comparison | 22:18 |
| Steel2 | lame is often useful | 22:18 |
| kanzure | http://www.gameloft.com/download-games/all-games/most-recent/ | 22:18 |
| Steel2 | what has your team made previously? | 22:19 |
| kanzure | Steel2: pm | 22:19 |
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| kanzure | 23:06 < jrayhawk> oh, right, you need to relogin in order to get the new gids | 23:10 |
| kanzure | fenn: solved.. i guess | 23:10 |
| jrayhawk | i blame unix | 23:10 |
| kanzure | i blame you | 23:10 |
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| kanzure | i enjoy blaming you for things | 23:11 |
| jrayhawk | thankfully, a well established hierarchy of blame results in a widespread distribution of blame everyone can avoid responsibility | 23:11 |
| Steel3 | hmm | 23:19 |
| Steel3 | kanzure, what about an automatic ochem app? | 23:19 |
| kanzure | automatic.. ochem? | 23:19 |
| Steel3 | yeah, sort of like a specialized app--have it name chemicals based on structures or give structures based on names | 23:20 |
| kanzure | structure drawing would be nice | 23:21 |
| Steel3 | I'm just thinking of annoying problems people run into in STEM | 23:22 |
| kanzure | "no money" | 23:22 |
| Steel3 | I meant during problem solving | 23:22 |
| kanzure | ... no money? | 23:23 |
| kanzure | hm | 23:23 |
| Steel3 | if you were doing web apps I'd say find an industry that has insufficiently user friendly BSEEs written for it | 23:28 |
| kanzure | BSEEs? | 23:28 |
| Steel3 | broad spectrum expert systems | 23:28 |
| Steel3 | for instance, I wonder what would happen if you fed katsmeow's pseudo-AI a law library | 23:29 |
| kanzure | AI? | 23:29 |
| kanzure | oh geeze | 23:29 |
| katsmeow-afk | it may die | 23:29 |
| katsmeow-afk | if the dogs here have taught me anythng about law, it's that it doesn't matter, the courts and DA's office will do what they wish | 23:30 |
| Steel3 | eh, that's local/when people have specific interests | 23:30 |
| Steel3 | but in corporation vs corporation fights, the one with the better natural language AI wins I think | 23:30 |
| katsmeow-afk | has that been done yet? | 23:30 |
| Steel3 | not yet | 23:31 |
| Steel3 | but they hooked up Watson to parallel Citigroup's wall street risk analytics division | 23:31 |
| Steel3 | so it's only a matter of time | 23:31 |
| katsmeow-afk | here's a current example of illogic in humans: | 23:31 |
| katsmeow-afk | 10Pcs 1W Cool White High Power Led Lamp Beads 16 Bids $7.11 | 23:31 |
| katsmeow-afk | 10 PCS 1W High Power Led Lamp Beads Cool White Buy It Now $4.18 | 23:31 |
| Steel3 | IBM get 5-10% of the profits | 23:31 |
| katsmeow-afk | how will 16 humans bid up the price of the item to $7.11, when the buy-now price is only $4.18? | 23:32 |
| Steel3 | asymmetric/inefficiently displayed information | 23:33 |
| yashgaroth | shipping costs | 23:33 |
| Steel3 | it's in ebay's best interests to not display the best deal to you | 23:33 |
| katsmeow-afk | shipping is free on both items, both items in same city | 23:33 |
| yashgaroth | relative rating history of sellers | 23:34 |
| Steel3 | easily gamed | 23:34 |
| katsmeow-afk | it's the same seller | 23:35 |
| yashgaroth | well shit I'm out of ideas then | 23:35 |
| katsmeow-afk | ebay numbers 110844924690 and 110844431913 | 23:36 |
| katsmeow-afk | it's even the same pic on both auctions | 23:36 |
| katsmeow-afk | err, the auction and the buy-now | 23:37 |
| yashgaroth | haha the estimated delivery on the cheaper ones is even earlier too | 23:37 |
| katsmeow-afk | so see, i have little hope you can bet on an Ai to win in court, because humans are involved | 23:38 |
| Steel3 | no, you don't have to have the AI be the lawyer | 23:42 |
| Steel3 | you have the AI feed the lawyer his case | 23:42 |
| Steel3 | I mean, every lawyer is backed by a huge case-law team | 23:42 |
| Steel3 | for high profile cases | 23:42 |
| katsmeow-afk | ah, then maybe yeas, especially if you can make a devious underhanded Ai | 23:43 |
| Steel3 | have the lawyer do the underhanded part | 23:43 |
| Steel3 | have the AI be the thing that combs through the entirety of both common and formal law since the magna carta :P | 23:44 |
| katsmeow-afk | i figured that's what yo meant | 23:44 |
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