| --- Log opened Sat Mar 31 00:00:15 2012 | ||
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| fenn | i'm fond of the concrete machine tool concept, basically you get some linear rails and bolt/grout them to some square structural tubing filled with concrete; worked after WWII when there were iron shortages and still works good now | 00:11 |
|---|---|---|
| fenn | you get stiffness/strength from the steel, damping from the concrete, and accuracy from the rails | 00:12 |
| fenn | a bridge mill is the best configuration for rigidity, if you plan to do serious machining, but a gantry such as this would be fine for lighter duty work: http://www.cnczone.com/forums/epoxy_granite/127051-epoxy_concrete_cnc_mill_500_a.html | 00:13 |
| kanzure | ParahSailin: ping | 00:14 |
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| kanzure | well, anyway. there's your answers. | 00:18 |
| nmz787 | what about that V90 | 00:35 |
| nmz787 | fireball | 00:35 |
| kanzure | fenn: ping | 00:41 |
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| fenn | yes i'm around | 00:55 |
| kanzure | i'm sorta assuming nmz787's question was for you | 00:59 |
| kanzure | i haven't used a fireball | 00:59 |
| kanzure | looks a little fragile | 00:59 |
| fenn | i'm not a huge fan of MDF in general | 01:00 |
| joshcryer | fireball? | 01:00 |
| joshcryer | damn you guys and your lingo damnit it :P | 01:00 |
| fenn | also it's kinda small | 01:00 |
| fenn | http://www.probotix.com/FireBall_v90_cnc_router_kit/ | 01:00 |
| joshcryer | (yeah google helped me literally after I typed 'fireball?') | 01:00 |
| fenn | similar machine in this class is the zen mill http://www.zentoolworks.com/product_info.php?products_id=75 | 01:01 |
| fenn | i don't think these are suitable for metal cutting | 01:01 |
| fenn | perhaps engraving | 01:01 |
| joshcryer | ps we're all going to be tapped into the machine in a dozen years or so and it'll be almost superfluous, we'll all know what each other means | 01:01 |
| fenn | may we all use proper URIs by then | 01:02 |
| kanzure | action:INTENT://||ANDROID.action.intent.popup.home.widget | 01:02 |
| joshcryer | heh | 01:02 |
| joshcryer | I am suck at 'branding' | 01:03 |
| fenn | brainding? | 01:04 |
| joshcryer | fireball? how about mdf cnc? ;p or rasberry pi? how about cheap small hdpc? >:P | 01:05 |
| kanzure | fenn: ok. so how about your take on the laser cutter scheming? | 01:05 |
| kanzure | so far it looks like a custom one is the way to go but maybe a $16k laser + custom optics + whatever god-awful software it comes with? | 01:05 |
| fenn | i dont think a laser cutter has enough spatial resolution | 01:06 |
| fenn | in the movement platform | 01:06 |
| fenn | if you wanna make tiny stuff, need to use something like a microscope stage | 01:06 |
| kanzure | nmz787's 1/8 40 screw scheme said something like 256 steps over a 15 micron turn? | 01:06 |
| kanzure | s/over a/within a | 01:07 |
| fenn | something like 2.5 micron per step, but you can't really rely on microstepping | 01:07 |
| fenn | oh wait, nm there's 200 steps per turn, divided by 256 so 0.01 micron per microstep | 01:08 |
| fenn | 3 microns per real step | 01:08 |
| kanzure | "real" step | 01:08 |
| fenn | "full step" if you wanna get technical | 01:08 |
| kanzure | ok ok | 01:08 |
| joshcryer | how thick is the laser cut? | 01:12 |
| kanzure | there are scenarios where cut-through is ok | 01:13 |
| fenn | automatic hole drilling would be nice | 01:13 |
| kanzure | channel depths of 20-30 microns would be nice | 01:14 |
| kanzure | at most 100 | 01:14 |
| fenn | something like this looks about right http://www.bmius.com/p-8741-teradyne-xy-motorized-translation-stage-4x4-inches.aspx | 01:16 |
| * fenn shops around some more | 01:17 | |
| kanzure | oh right. stationary laser. | 01:17 |
| nmz787 | fenn: not 2.5 micron per step | 01:21 |
| nmz787 | fenn: 15 microns per rotation of the screw, generally about 180 steps per rotation of the motor | 01:21 |
| nmz787 | err | 01:23 |
| fenn | inch * 1/40 * 25.4mm/inch = 0.635mm = 635 micron | 01:23 |
| nmz787 | 1/4 inch to microns = 6350.... (6350 / 40) / 180 = 0.881944444 | 01:23 |
| fenn | dunno where you got 15 from | 01:23 |
| nmz787 | 1/4 40 means every 1/4 inch there is 40 threads | 01:24 |
| fenn | no | 01:24 |
| fenn | 1/4 is the diameter of the screw | 01:24 |
| fenn | it has 40 turns per inch (40 threads per inch) | 01:24 |
| nmz787 | oh | 01:25 |
| nmz787 | err | 01:25 |
| nmz787 | :P | 01:25 |
| nmz787 | 4am here | 01:25 |
| nmz787 | we rely on microstepping blood pumps for medical apps | 01:25 |
| fenn | anyway it seems that typical screw threads are fine, as even 16 microsteps gets down to 1 micron resolution | 01:25 |
| nmz787 | if the controller has enough amperage and you have good motors, why can't you trust that? | 01:26 |
| nmz787 | approximating a sine wave more accurately??? | 01:26 |
| nmz787 | mm | 01:27 |
| nmz787 | so where do you get the best threads? | 01:27 |
| nmz787 | or are there good gantry kits? pick n choose sites? | 01:27 |
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| nmz787 | we probably only need 8 inches per side of travel | 01:28 |
| fenn | "best" threads are made for micrometers or positioning stage leadscrews, but i suspect a normal precision acme leadscrew would be fine | 01:28 |
| nmz787 | i had mentioned throwing in a michelson interferometer using feedback via a photodiode | 01:28 |
| nmz787 | oh right you said as long as its repeatable | 01:29 |
| nmz787 | i guess if you always began ethching/curing in the same spot | 01:29 |
| nmz787 | the corner or center | 01:29 |
| fenn | yeah after seeing that video interferometry looks more doable, but a single photodiode would be too noisy and unreliable, you'd have to do some kind of image processing (and don't miss anything!) | 01:29 |
| fenn | things can move 1/4 wavelength in a very small amount of time | 01:30 |
| fenn | embed everything in pitch to slow it down :P | 01:30 |
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| Vicarious | 'morning | 01:31 |
| fenn | oh yeah baby http://www.zaber.com/products/product_group.php?group=XY#tabs | 01:32 |
| nmz787 | nah | 01:32 |
| nmz787 | i think you'd just put a comparator on it | 01:33 |
| nmz787 | so you only count peaks | 01:33 |
| fenn | i sort of just want to design and build stuff like that | 01:33 |
| fenn | nmz787: that assumes there's no noise or speckle | 01:33 |
| nmz787 | well speckle will decrease the signal, not increase it | 01:34 |
| nmz787 | but sure | 01:34 |
| nmz787 | we'd have to see it | 01:34 |
| nmz787 | hmm those stages are $2200 | 01:34 |
| nmz787 | oh, for 13mm | 01:35 |
| nmz787 | $4k is a bit much | 01:35 |
| fenn | and up | 01:35 |
| nmz787 | (for 10cm) | 01:35 |
| fenn | can probably find these things surplus | 01:35 |
| nmz787 | yeah | 01:35 |
| nmz787 | there's a place close to me actually | 01:36 |
| fenn | centurion? | 01:36 |
| fenn | http://www.centurian-surplus.com/servlet/StoreFront | 01:36 |
| fenn | i've talked to this guy, he doesn't know or care what 90% of his stuff is | 01:36 |
| kanzure | how does that work | 01:36 |
| nmz787 | fenn: have you heard of these guys | 01:37 |
| nmz787 | http://www.newscaletech.com/squiggle_overview.html | 01:37 |
| nmz787 | nah this place, i can pick up locally | 01:37 |
| fenn | yeah | 01:37 |
| nmz787 | http://www.sunnking.com/ | 01:37 |
| nmz787 | newscale is down the road from me | 01:37 |
| nmz787 | a little too small... | 01:37 |
| nmz787 | hmm | 01:37 |
| nmz787 | i wonder if they can do an array of them | 01:38 |
| nmz787 | that might solve valving actually | 01:38 |
| fenn | i've had bad luck with getting stuff from ewaste centers | 01:38 |
| nmz787 | why? | 01:39 |
| nmz787 | its a pretty sweet place | 01:40 |
| nmz787 | huge! | 01:40 |
| fenn | have you actually *gotten* anything from there? | 01:40 |
| nmz787 | yeah | 01:40 |
| nmz787 | hot air thermocycler | 01:40 |
| nmz787 | 12 motorized lens + camera assemblies for like $1 each | 01:40 |
| nmz787 | FTIR spec | 01:40 |
| fenn | how does that work, you just grab it and run, or they sell things per pound or what? | 01:41 |
| nmz787 | ebay | 01:41 |
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| nmz787 | but its local so no shipping 4 me | 01:41 |
| fenn | hmm. that means they have to actually know what something is first | 01:41 |
| nmz787 | or you have to know what item name to search for | 01:41 |
| nmz787 | model # | 01:41 |
| nmz787 | etc | 01:41 |
| nmz787 | they know stuff like XY stage though | 01:42 |
| nmz787 | thats generic enough | 01:42 |
| nmz787 | but you can also call them and give them a wish list | 01:43 |
| nmz787 | but i think they'd be more interested if you were spending a few hundred - thousand or two $s | 01:44 |
| nmz787 | in the wishlist deal | 01:44 |
| fenn | ok so positioning i think i have a handle on | 01:47 |
| fenn | what i don't really understand is how porosity affects the chemistry in tiny reaction chambers | 01:47 |
| fenn | as the pore size approaches the size of the chamber, contamination becomes a huge problem | 01:48 |
| fenn | but how do you actually measure porosity and is it unavoidable or are there flexible materials that are less porous? | 01:48 |
| kanzure | fenn if you can pose a well-formed materials question i can run it by some materials people i know | 01:49 |
| kanzure | err in particular for material searching.. materials people be crazy. | 01:50 |
| fenn | i think the main requirement is that we can make valves, yes? | 01:51 |
| kanzure | yep | 01:51 |
| kanzure | "Because of the high porosity of PDMS, during the course of thermocycling significant sample evaporation can occur, thus altering reactant concentrations and subsequently reducing reaction efficiency, and in some cases completely inhibiting synthesis." | 01:51 |
| kanzure | "It has been found that the addition of fluid reservoirs in the vicinity of reaction chambers can reduce sample evaporation (17); thus, a water jacket composed of a mesh of fluid lines 50μm wide with 300μm spacing was designed in the control layer above the four reactors. When filled with water and actuated during thermocycling, the water jacket substantially decreased reactor evaporation as observed qualitatively." | 01:51 |
| fenn | ParahSailin: oh it looks like the link i posted earlier (cnczone) is actually a bridge mill, not a gantry | 01:51 |
| fenn | er, can't you just submerge the whole thing in water? | 01:52 |
| fenn | seems like a stupid problem | 01:53 |
| kanzure | nah man what you really want to do is submerge it in syrup | 01:54 |
| fenn | aside from the problems of manufacturing there's the design aspect; what about magnetic beads and using surface tension to move around liquid attached to the beads? has anyone done this? | 01:54 |
| fenn | mmm syrup | 01:54 |
| fenn | or just encase it in epoxy | 01:55 |
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| kanzure | would epoxy effect microscope observation of it | 01:56 |
| fenn | yes, but it could be controlled | 01:56 |
| fenn | i guess you only need epoxy around the edges, if it's a glass-pdms-glass sandwich | 01:57 |
| kanzure | haven't figured out glass valving | 01:57 |
| fenn | me either | 01:57 |
| fenn | looking at http://www.stanford.edu/group/foundry/Microfluidic%20valve%20technology.html | 01:58 |
| kanzure | heh what about no valves, and instead you just activate perpendicular flows to block certain things | 01:58 |
| fenn | does that work? | 01:59 |
| kanzure | stanford's microfluidics foundry is a good option if we didn't want to do this in-house | 01:59 |
| kanzure | pdms pressure valves are the standard/default yes | 01:59 |
| kanzure | because pdms can expand under pressure and block the crossed channel | 02:00 |
| fenn | yeah that's why i said talk to dylan, they've already done all the legwork with stanford (apparently they're extremely hard to access unless you are a researcher at stanford) | 02:00 |
| fenn | okay what about vacuum sputtering a thin layer of aluminum or similar onto the pdms, to fill in the pores | 02:01 |
| fenn | electroless/electroplating could also work | 02:01 |
| kanzure | maybe you can run a liquid through the final chip and coat the walls | 02:01 |
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| kanzure | hi klafka | 02:02 |
| fenn | or even a thin coat of su-8 followed by bulk uv cure | 02:02 |
| fenn | su-8 has to be non-porous | 02:02 |
| fenn | i wonder if the liquid would fill in the channels | 02:05 |
| klafka | hey kanzure | 02:05 |
| klafka | i'm really high -_- | 02:05 |
| fenn | hmm "40x the flexibility of silicon" doesn't sound very flexible | 02:05 |
| fenn | question about reagents - are dna synthesis reagents strong mutagens and require crazy disposal procedures? | 02:08 |
| kanzure | iirc waste products are dumped into a giant 'waste' bottle and disposed of like normal chemicals | 02:09 |
| fenn | this datasheet says "level 0 health hazard" http://datasheets.scbt.com/sc-286470.pdf | 02:10 |
| kanzure | just remember that msds sheets are just for liability purposes and shouldn't be relied upon | 02:11 |
| fenn | yeah they're mostly useless, "consult local waste management authority for disposal regulations blah blah blah blah blaaaa | 02:12 |
| kanzure | "Considered an unlikely route of entry in commercial/industrial environments" | 02:12 |
| kanzure | "No human exposure data available" | 02:12 |
| kanzure | "IF SWALLOWED: immediately give a glass of water" and a fucking beer | 02:13 |
| fenn | and a pat on the back and a darwin award | 02:13 |
| kanzure | "Encourage patient to blow nose" | 02:14 |
| kanzure | "consider explosion-proof machines" | 02:15 |
| fenn | so, i am sort of wondering why we are doing DNA synthesis again? | 02:15 |
| fenn | the fact that something is expensive doesn't automatically mean it is easy to improve upon | 02:16 |
| kanzure | enables el-cheapo biology projects | 02:16 |
| kanzure | some of it does not require "improvement", like protein purification | 02:16 |
| kanzure | directed evolution of specific proteins | 02:17 |
| fenn | it seems like a desktop dna synthesizer is useless without a desktop dna sequencer to check its output | 02:17 |
| kanzure | yes probably | 02:17 |
| kanzure | but those assholes are supposed to be making us that desktop sequencer right? | 02:17 |
| fenn | dna sequencing can be done without any valves | 02:18 |
| fenn | (basically sanger sequencing is column chromatography with some photodiodes and dye-blocked nucleotides) | 02:18 |
| fenn | i'm imagining a glass microscope slide with a long zigzag etched into it, with two fluid ports at either end and a photodiode somewhere near the output end | 02:19 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/microfluidics_Sanger_sequencer.png | 02:20 |
| fenn | what is the pdms layer for? | 02:22 |
| kanzure | thermal bonding? | 02:22 |
| fenn | i mean the valves do something, but what | 02:22 |
| kanzure | what? the valves press up against the channels to block them | 02:23 |
| fenn | right | 02:23 |
| fenn | but why do you need valves? | 02:23 |
| kanzure | oh neat http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microfluidic_Sanger_sequencing | 02:24 |
| fenn | oh it does thermal cycling too | 02:28 |
| fenn | i don't think that's really necessary | 02:29 |
| fenn | you can do your PCR in a PCR machine and pipet the result into the capillary for elecrophoresis | 02:29 |
| fenn | well anyway it's not that hard to do PCR | 02:30 |
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| fenn | sub-microliter volumes of reagents sounds pretty cheap | 02:31 |
| kanzure | i think pcr on a chip is important | 02:31 |
| kanzure | and easy who cares.. | 02:31 |
| fenn | yes | 02:32 |
| kanzure | pcr is a welcome problem | 02:32 |
| fenn | anyway why has nobody in diybio made microfluidic anything? | 02:32 |
| fenn | or, where can i buy a cheap microfluidic sequencing chip? | 02:32 |
| kanzure | hackteria did some stuff but it looks macroscopic and cheap and unrepeatable/unrepeated | 02:32 |
| fenn | supposedly this company "microchip biotechnologies" in the bay area makes them | 02:33 |
| kanzure | also nobody has done it because i haven't yet or something | 02:33 |
| fenn | bah | 02:33 |
| kanzure | haha i don't think these microfluidics companies actually do anything | 02:33 |
| kanzure | so far i haven't seen evidence | 02:33 |
| fenn | sequencing looks like a much easier problem to start out with than synthesis | 02:33 |
| kanzure | pcr seems even easier | 02:33 |
| fenn | yeah but maybe too easy | 02:33 |
| fenn | pcr then sequencing then synthesis, OK | 02:34 |
| fenn | then combine them all into one chip that verifies its own synthesis output | 02:34 |
| kanzure | cell loading then pcr then sequencing then synthesis then transhumanism | 02:34 |
| kanzure | oh wait | 02:34 |
| kanzure | laser ccutter then cell loading then pcr then sequencing then synthesis then transhumanism | 02:34 |
| fenn | cell loading comes after synthesis no? otherwise what do you put into the cell | 02:34 |
| kanzure | oh, no i was just thinking of easy things to do | 02:35 |
| * fenn adds a parallel path to the gantt chart | 02:35 | |
| kanzure | i think one cell per droplet is an easy thing to do, i don't know- just storing cultures or some shit | 02:35 |
| fenn | droplet handling is another area of research entirely | 02:35 |
| kanzure | make sure they don't die. observe them regularly. eventually yashgaroth will complain enough to have one of us add an electroporator | 02:35 |
| fenn | i wonder if there are monolithic "chip cameras" that have lenses suitable for microscopy | 02:37 |
| fenn | these cameras are about 1mm cube | 02:38 |
| fenn | i was talking with anselm about making a capillary array electrophoresis sequencer http://med.stanford.edu/sgtc/technology/cap.html | 02:39 |
| fenn | didn't know such a thing actually existed until now | 02:39 |
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| fenn | three copper blocks, each with 1/16" diameter holes drilled through in a standard 96-well format, in a stack such that the arrays of holes co-align. Each of the blocks is maintained at extension, annealling, or denaturing temperature, and the blocks are well insulated from each other. Each hole is threaded through with a teflon tube through which the samples will move. One end of each tube is extended above the block assembly to connect to the syringe ne | 02:42 |
| kanzure | cut off at "connect to the syringe ne-" | 02:42 |
| fenn | connect to the syringe needles of a Robbins Scientific Hydra-96 pipettor. The other end extends below the assembly for loading the samples from a standard 96-well plate. | 02:43 |
| fenn | how do i configure irssi to wrap to a new message at whatever number of characters that is? | 02:43 |
| fenn | hmm apparently i need splitlong.pl | 02:44 |
| fenn | unfixed (and unacknowledged!) bug from 2006 | 02:45 |
| fenn | or maybe autowrap.pl | 02:48 |
| kanzure | screw it i should just make everyone work on http://bitbucket.org/iimarckus/pokered | 02:49 |
| kanzure | 'night | 02:49 |
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| fenn | i think "microchip biotechnologies" is now known as "integen X" | 02:54 |
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| fenn | hm, stelarc is going to be at dorkbot | 05:40 |
| fenn | er, yesterday. d'eaux | 05:40 |
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| kanzure | boop beep | 07:28 |
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| kanzure | delinquentme: sup | 07:40 |
| delinquentme | howdeh | 07:42 |
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| kanzure | ' The "tangled spaghetti" model is good for "gray" matter, but "white" matter is different. | 09:38 |
| kanzure | We already knew that axons in the white matter runs in bundles (like spaghetti if you | 09:39 |
| kanzure | neglect to stir while boiling). Van's paper is about "white" matter. I haven't read it | 09:39 |
| kanzure | carefully enough to form an opinion." | 09:39 |
| delinquentme | kanzure, american institute of physis =>> american institute of physics | 09:45 |
| delinquentme | in your list .. jut fyi | 09:45 |
| kanzure | my c key is busted | 09:47 |
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| delinquentme | cccccc | 10:13 |
| delinquentme | c | 10:13 |
| delinquentme | c | 10:13 |
| delinquentme | c | 10:13 |
| delinquentme | there now you can just copy and paste | 10:13 |
| delinquentme | oh wait.. ctrl + c | 10:13 |
| delinquentme | lulz! | 10:13 |
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| kanzure | http://asymptoticdesign.wordpress.com/2012/03/10/diy-scope/ | 10:24 |
| kanzure | "My DIY fluorescence microscope probably runs around $2k is my guess -- about an order of magnitude cheaper than competing microscopes by Olympus/Nikon/etc., but still too expensive for individuals." | 10:24 |
| kanzure | http://asymptoticdesign.wordpress.com/2012/03/29/openscope-software-v1-0/ | 10:24 |
| delinquentme | ^^ awesome | 10:26 |
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| kanzure | MIT 6.123/20.345 (Bioinstrumentation) | 10:28 |
| kanzure | damn. where can i get the videos to that class? | 10:28 |
| delinquentme | lets relocate there and just open up shop at a coffee house | 10:29 |
| delinquentme | and be like WE CLAIM DIS TABUL | 10:29 |
| delinquentme | and the invite people to check out the coolness | 10:29 |
| delinquentme | THERES AN IDEA | 10:29 |
| delinquentme | at the cap of a project rent out a table @ sbux and hack there | 10:29 |
| delinquentme | promise ot buy $30 worth of coffee and talk to people about the projects | 10:30 |
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| thylane | http://www.transhumanism.org/index.php/th/more/988/ | 10:55 |
| delinquentme | oh man. | 10:56 |
| kanzure | personally i think everyone should adopt delinquentme's stunning good looks | 10:57 |
| delinquentme | ive just implemented one of my very first (useful!) recursions | 10:57 |
| kanzure | eh? | 10:57 |
| delinquentme | yeh. | 10:57 |
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| delinquentme | its basically sucking whatever search bandwidth I can get from google | 10:58 |
| delinquentme | and tyvms kanzure | 11:02 |
| kanzure | haha | 11:02 |
| delinquentme | does that mean no softwares :D | 11:02 |
| delinquentme | its cool bc im still refactoring | 11:03 |
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| lichen | that article is a bit silly | 11:06 |
| lichen | "stop being unattractive, nerds" | 11:06 |
| kanzure | transhumanism.org is dead anyway | 11:07 |
| kanzure | wta is using humanityplus.org instead now | 11:08 |
| kanzure | and putting those opinion pieces on hplusmagazine.com | 11:08 |
| delinquentme | i think | 11:08 |
| delinquentme | he needs | 11:08 |
| delinquentme | a website | 11:08 |
| n_bentha | we have an online magazine? | 11:09 |
| n_bentha | :( it keeps saying that it can't reach the remote server...i guess the site is down? | 11:11 |
| lichen | looks like it | 11:11 |
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| kanzure | n_bentha: they don't have any people that understand websites anymore | 11:16 |
| kanzure | they had me working on it for a while but then they went all crazy on me | 11:16 |
| n_bentha | o_0 | 11:17 |
| n_bentha | wth. | 11:17 |
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| lichen | why is this community so fracturous | 11:19 |
| n_bentha | i bet on paranoia? | 11:19 |
| lichen | about what? | 11:20 |
| kanzure | well, everyone wants to split the group | 11:20 |
| kanzure | because i assume alpha male shit | 11:20 |
| lichen | yeah | 11:20 |
| lichen | and wanted to lead the movement | 11:21 |
| lichen | while having nothing to contribute | 11:21 |
| kanzure | SOCIAL!!! | 11:21 |
| kanzure | clearly lichen you are insufficiently social, or something | 11:21 |
| kanzure | i don't know how to troll you on this subject, sorry. jrayhawk would do better. | 11:21 |
| lichen | :| | 11:21 |
| kanzure | another important issue to point out | 11:22 |
| lichen | ive noticed the h+ community has a lot of the same problems the atheist/rational movement has | 11:22 |
| kanzure | is that the vast majority of the previous transhumanist community is completely unskilled | 11:22 |
| lichen | dreamers and sci-fi authors | 11:22 |
| kanzure | some of them were skilled and got together to make the nematode mind uploading research group | 11:23 |
| kanzure | so they built a community project to slice some neural tissue and scan it in with lasers | 11:23 |
| kanzure | but that was just one project.. | 11:23 |
| lichen | when was that? | 11:23 |
| kanzure | late 90s? | 11:23 |
| lichen | ah | 11:23 |
| lichen | so a point where that kind of project wouldnt have even worked anyways | 11:24 |
| kanzure | huh? it did work | 11:24 |
| lichen | oh? | 11:24 |
| kanzure | yeah it was just scanning in neural tissue and representing it in computers | 11:24 |
| kanzure | plus i think some simulation, but w/e | 11:24 |
| lichen | i didnt think we knew enough about neuronal function at that point to really simulate it fully | 11:24 |
| kanzure | "fully" depends on what you are diong | 11:25 |
| kanzure | *doing | 11:25 |
| kanzure | and simulating a nematode is dramatically simpler than simulating the 100s of different types of neurons in the human brain | 11:25 |
| lichen | point | 11:25 |
| kanzure | 100 nematode neurons vs. 100 billion human neurons plus billions of other supporting cells | 11:25 |
| lichen | nematodes only have 100? | 11:26 |
| lichen | dang | 11:26 |
| kanzure | bbl | 11:26 |
| n_bentha | they're just dumb worms! | 11:28 |
| lichen | the fuck? | 11:29 |
| lichen | lol | 11:29 |
| lichen | fuck im sitting too far from my monitor | 11:29 |
| lichen | i read that as 'dumb women' | 11:29 |
| lichen | and i was thinking 'what are you on about' | 11:29 |
| n_bentha | press ctrl and + | 11:30 |
| n_bentha | or shift and + | 11:30 |
| n_bentha | it'll incease your font size | 11:30 |
| lichen | not in kvirc | 11:30 |
| n_bentha | oh... | 11:30 |
| lichen | i can probably find somewhere to increase font size though | 11:30 |
| n_bentha | my bad, i'm using opera browser | 11:30 |
| lichen | its not as though i cant read this | 11:31 |
| lichen | but skimming | 11:31 |
| strangewarp | [12:22] <lichen> dreamers and sci-fi authors | 11:47 |
| strangewarp | they see me rollin, they hatin | 11:47 |
| strangewarp | ;) | 11:48 |
| strangewarp | Problem is, a lot of people didn't discover transhumanism until after finishing their fine-arts / liberal-arts educations... | 11:50 |
| strangewarp | IMO find a way to get transhumanist career-paths discussed in college job-fairs | 11:51 |
| uniqanomaly__ | we need h+ spam all over the internets | 11:52 |
| uniqanomaly__ | h+ crusaders taskforce rotfl | 11:56 |
| thesnark | fuck pygtk | 11:57 |
| thesnark | that is all | 11:57 |
| strangewarp | fuck processing, chuck, pd, java, and groovy as well | 11:58 |
| strangewarp | also fuck luaAV for not being windows-compatible | 11:58 |
| uniqanomaly__ | fuck windows | 11:58 |
| strangewarp | yes that too x_x | 11:58 |
| thesnark | stangewarp what are you doing with pd? | 12:02 |
| strangewarp | thesnark: Nothing anymore.. it was kind of awful to get even simple things running in it. I have trouble thinking in the terms it requires, I suppose | 12:04 |
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| thesnark | strangewarp yeah, setting all of that stuff up sucks | 12:04 |
| thesnark | strangewarp I am impressed with anybody who can produce anything with those tools | 12:04 |
| strangewarp | heh, well, thanks I suppose | 12:04 |
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| strangewarp | I ended up coding my music-setup's brain in ChucK instead, which is sort of like trying to fry an egg on a tire instead of a rock | 12:05 |
| strangewarp | Going to port it over to Lua once I either get a Linux computer, or LuaAV is ported to Windows.. | 12:05 |
| thesnark | a linux computer? | 12:06 |
| thesnark | dump windows! | 12:06 |
| thesnark | show it how you really feel | 12:06 |
| strangewarp | I have been meaning to dump Windows, but it has to wait for several fiddly reasons | 12:06 |
| thesnark | there will always be excuses | 12:07 |
| thesnark | you can't afford to be in this abusive relationship anymore | 12:07 |
| thesnark | at _least_ do a dual boot with Ubuntu | 12:07 |
| thesnark | it's very easy | 12:07 |
| strangewarp | I have been considering that, yes.. I will probably dualboot in a while | 12:07 |
| thesnark | You can set up your dual boot from inside windows | 12:08 |
| thesnark | it's so easy | 12:08 |
| thesnark | you should do it tonight | 12:08 |
| delinquentme | computers. | 12:08 |
| delinquentme | they're so stupid quick | 12:08 |
| thesnark | addendum to my previous statement regarding pygtk: long live pyqt3, pylab | 12:09 |
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| delinquentme | http://maps.google.com/?t=8&utm_campaign=8bit&utm_source=yt google wins the april fools | 12:16 |
| strangewarp | Oh wow. XD | 12:23 |
| thesnark | it's 3/31 | 12:23 |
| thesnark | wtf | 12:23 |
| delinquentme | its april first in .... | 12:24 |
| delinquentme | taiwan? idk | 12:24 |
| delinquentme | is it just me in thinking scraping tech is WAYY underutilized? | 12:25 |
| thesnark | haha, not at all | 12:25 |
| thesnark | but go on, how do you think it should be used? | 12:25 |
| strangewarp | On the zoomed-out settings, it seems to think Denver is in the middle of the mountains, which... no. Other than that, very amusing.. | 12:29 |
| lichen | strangewarp: if i could find an h+ job id be in the field | 12:35 |
| lichen | any jobs in the field are really hard to find | 12:35 |
| lichen | doesnt really help that im young and unexperienced though | 12:36 |
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| kanzure | lichen: would you be up for some programming jobs? | 12:53 |
| kanzure | thesnark: aw man don't be using pygtk | 12:53 |
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| strangewarp | http://copyranter.blogspot.fr/2012/03/world-map-metal-bands-per-100000-people.html - Amusing | 13:18 |
| delinquentme | JXC | 13:23 |
| delinquentme | computers am so fast | 13:23 |
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| lichen | kanzure: yeah, thats my focus | 13:31 |
| lichen | im ideally looking for something stable | 13:31 |
| kanzure | eemail me your resume? kanzure@gmail.com | 13:32 |
| lichen | kk | 13:32 |
| kanzure | e-email is electronic electronic mail | 13:32 |
| lichen | lol | 13:32 |
| lichen | extra electronic | 13:32 |
| lichen | for when regular electronics just arent enough | 13:33 |
| kanzure | "The group is now investigating ways to design a “self-correcting factory” in which products are automatically tested. If the product doesn’t work, Hardt envisions the manufacturing process changing in response, adjusting settings on machines to correct the process. " | 13:34 |
| kanzure | "For example, the team is looking for ways to evaluate how fluid flows through a manufactured chip. The point at which two fluids mix within a chip should be exactly the same in every chip produced. If that mixing point drifts from chip to chip, Hardt and his colleagues have developed algorithms that adjust equipment to correct the drift." | 13:34 |
| kanzure | o.o that's a weird way to get around your inability to model the chip | 13:35 |
| kanzure | `"Most of the academic work in microfluidics concentrates on applications, and unfortunately only very few concentrate on the actual manufacturing technologies suited for industrialization," Becker says.` | 13:35 |
| lichen | well there's modeling | 13:35 |
| lichen | and then there's testing | 13:35 |
| * kanzure nods | 13:37 | |
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| lichen | you should have the email btw | 13:44 |
| delinquentme | kanzure, "do it in software" | 13:44 |
| delinquentme | but i agree | 13:44 |
| lichen | software modeling is cheaper long term | 13:45 |
| delinquentme | if you're mfg things ... isnt part of the "point" that they're consistet? | 13:45 |
| lichen | yup | 13:45 |
| kanzure | lichen: yes your doc looks good to me. | 13:45 |
| lichen | cool cool | 13:45 |
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| jrayhawk | http://deaimuryou.eek.jp/up/src/up5767.jpg | 14:05 |
| lichen | is that a google maps filter | 14:06 |
| kanzure | it's their april fools day thing | 14:07 |
| lichen | lol neat | 14:07 |
| delinquentme | lol | 14:08 |
| delinquentme | what does purple represent? | 14:08 |
| lichen | fresh water probably | 14:08 |
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| lichen | or is that radiation | 14:08 |
| delinquentme | zombies | 14:09 |
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| lichen | its not purple when i open it up on gmaps | 14:09 |
| lichen | map data is copyright square enix | 14:11 |
| lichen | lol | 14:11 |
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| lichen | hahahhaa | 14:11 |
| lichen | even street view is dif | 14:11 |
| chris_99 | http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2012/manufacturing-polymer-microfabrication-0329.html | 14:17 |
| kanzure | chris_99: note the quotes from that document above^ | 14:17 |
| chris_99 | aha | 14:17 |
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| kanzure | hi yashgaroth | 14:23 |
| yashgaroth | 'sup | 14:23 |
| kanzure | http://asymptoticdesign.wordpress.com/2012/03/10/diy-scope/ | 14:23 |
| kanzure | oh i didn't look at the rest of his stuff.. | 14:24 |
| kanzure | http://asymptoticdesign.wordpress.com/open-source-science/pyinstrumentation/ | 14:24 |
| kanzure | "pyInstrumentation is an object-oriented library for connecting to serial, usb, and rs232 busses with python programs. The code is meant to be written in an simplistic and straightforward way to help even non-programmers connect to their instrumentation for automated data analysis and acquisition." | 14:24 |
| kanzure | https://github.com/asymptoticdesign/pyInstrumentation | 14:24 |
| yashgaroth | I like the scope | 14:24 |
| delinquentme | kanzure, thoughts on how to verify that something is XML other than parsing the whole document? | 14:27 |
| kanzure | by looking at it. | 14:28 |
| kanzure | mimetype in the http header | 14:28 |
| kanzure | xmlschema as specified by the document | 14:28 |
| kanzure | running it through an xml stream parser (xmlpp) | 14:28 |
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| kanzure | hi skorket | 14:38 |
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| kanzure | gahh i was just stabbed in the back by a cache invalidation problem | 14:40 |
| thesnark | urg | 14:48 |
| thesnark | stupid algo | 14:48 |
| thesnark | needs to be run 200M times | 14:48 |
| skorket | hey kanzure | 14:49 |
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| kanzure | yo nmz787 | 14:54 |
| kanzure | did you see that polymer imprint microfluidics article today | 14:54 |
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| nmz787 | yo | 15:15 |
| nmz787 | i just woke up like an hour ago | 15:15 |
| nmz787 | :P | 15:15 |
| nmz787 | late night, late morning i guess | 15:15 |
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| kanzure | klafka: feeling better/worse? | 15:24 |
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| nmz787 | kanzure: hmm, no i didnt see that article | 15:30 |
| kanzure | nmz787: http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2012/manufacturing-polymer-microfabrication-0329.html | 15:31 |
| kanzure | nmz787: http://gnusha.org/logs/2012-03-31.log | 15:31 |
| thesnark | omg algorithm worked | 15:35 |
| thesnark | america, fuck yeah | 15:35 |
| thesnark | (coming again to save the motherfuckin day yeah) | 15:37 |
| kanzure | sing it again! but this time replace america with "me, me me me" | 15:40 |
| thesnark | me, me me fuck yeah | 15:43 |
| skorket | how does one use a microfluidic chip to diagnose AIDS? | 16:04 |
| nmz787 | probably add blood to the chip, and do PCR on it | 16:04 |
| nmz787 | or some affinity assay | 16:04 |
| skorket | oh, and did you guys see this post on adafruit: http://www.adafruit.com/blog/2012/03/30/resin-based-3d-printer-kit/ | 16:04 |
| nmz787 | using the protein that HIV binds to on CD4 and CD8 cells | 16:04 |
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| skorket | nmz787, meaning you have a mini heating element and have a supply of taq or something right on the chip? | 16:05 |
| nmz787 | yeah | 16:06 |
| skorket | ah, so this is nothing that's really robust or portable. You store the chip in a refrigerator until you need it, use it once or twice then throw it away? | 16:08 |
| skorket | I shouldn't say robust... | 16:09 |
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| nmz787 | microfluidics is just smaller, cheaper because it uses less reagents for each test | 16:33 |
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| skorket | right, it's just making a mini lab on a chip, pre packaged and ready to go | 16:41 |
| skorket | my only point was that it's really a streamlined industrial process rather than a thing meant for hobbyist use (no reason to think it would be, I'm just trying to understand) | 16:41 |
| kanzure | skorket: microfluidics can and has been used by hobbyists | 16:42 |
| skorket | kanzure, in what way? link? | 16:42 |
| kanzure | in fact, we're making a hobbyist microfluidics platform for dna synthesis | 16:42 |
| kanzure | all the hackteria/microfluidics stuff | 16:42 |
| kanzure | all of jonathan cline's EWOD microfluidics stuff | 16:43 |
| skorket | 'we' as in you and some other people? | 16:44 |
| kanzure | as in me and some other people in here | 16:44 |
| skorket | I can find information on that if I do a google for 'hackteria/microfluidics'? | 16:45 |
| kanzure | no, you will get hackteria's microfluidics stuff | 16:45 |
| skorket | how are you doing DNA synthesis with microfluidics? | 16:45 |
| kanzure | it's like regulr synthesis except micro | 16:46 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/DNA/synthesis.html | 16:46 |
| kanzure | *regular | 16:46 |
| skorket | that's pretty awesome. How close are you? How fast do you expect to be able to synthesize? | 16:47 |
| kanzure | i'd say six months close | 16:48 |
| kanzure | the goal is at most a minute per reaction | 16:49 |
| nmz787 | hobbyist is really a monetary level/class | 16:54 |
| nmz787 | as well, i guess it has something to do with making things on your own | 16:55 |
| nmz787 | hobby microfluidics is quite involved | 16:55 |
| nmz787 | bordering on not being a hobby, so much, i think | 16:55 |
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| kanzure | nmz787: i dunno. a cheap laser cutter (<$5k) + some cheap microfluidics equipment | 16:59 |
| kanzure | the per-chip cost will end up being cost of materials | 16:59 |
| skorket | nmz787, but you could also imagine shrinky dinks + HV to get something ghetto that might work | 16:59 |
| skorket | Not that I have that know-how but that's at least within reach | 17:00 |
| kanzure | hv? | 17:00 |
| skorket | high voltage... | 17:00 |
| skorket | which is what I'm assuming you're using to move water around? | 17:00 |
| kanzure | i don't know anyone that has accomplished anything with shrinky dinks yet | 17:00 |
| kanzure | no.. pumps | 17:00 |
| skorket | interesting...but high voltage is another option, no? What pumps do you use? | 17:01 |
| skorket | or maybe I'm asking the wrong question? | 17:07 |
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| kanzure | skorket: you could do electrowetting.. yes | 17:35 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/microfluidics/ | 17:35 |
| kanzure | see the EWOD papers for electrowetting on dielectrics | 17:35 |
| strangewarp | Doing some light carpentry. Whee! | 17:38 |
| strangewarp | The things you have to do, to get a decent wooden enclosure for your musical electronics :p | 17:38 |
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| nmz787 | kanzure: price wise you're right it should be <$10... or even <$5k | 18:10 |
| nmz787 | kanzure: but price isn't cost :D | 18:10 |
| nmz787 | kanzure: cost factors in time as well | 18:10 |
| nmz787 | kanzure: what I meant was that as a hobby, I think it currently requires much more time and involvement/devotion than say R/C cars | 18:11 |
| nmz787 | or R/C airplanes | 18:11 |
| kanzure | hrm, maybe | 18:11 |
| kanzure | some people spend >5 hours/day on their computer hobbies | 18:11 |
| skorket | kanzure, 5+ hours per day when you have a full time job that isn't your hobby requires an extreme amount of energy and devotion | 18:12 |
| kanzure | really? | 18:13 |
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| skorket | 9am - 5pm is your job. Factor in 1-2 hours for transport and dinner, so call it 8am that you wake up, 6pm that you get home and are ready to work on your hobby | 18:14 |
| skorket | 5 hours puts you at 11pm. | 18:14 |
| skorket | No TV, no social interaction, no walks, no movies | 18:15 |
| skorket | I'm not saying some people don't do exactly that, I'm only pointing out that it takes a lot of energy or devotion | 18:15 |
| kanzure | 2 hours for transport/food? well there's 2 hours.. | 18:16 |
| skorket | right... | 18:17 |
| nmz787 | i spend a shitload of time cooking, sometimes | 18:18 |
| kanzure | i just hire people to cook | 18:18 |
| nmz787 | psh | 18:18 |
| nmz787 | not the same quality | 18:18 |
| nmz787 | not as much customization | 18:19 |
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| kanzure | nmz787: well, to be fair, i don't mind eating the same thing most days | 18:20 |
| kanzure | or, i would prefer to if i could figure out a good diet of that | 18:20 |
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| ParahSailin | i eat sweet potatoes with rendered grassfed beef fat most days | 18:33 |
| ParahSailin | and meat | 18:33 |
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| katsmeow-afk | sweet potatoes with rendered grassfed beef fat ,, and to think i wasted a whole dollar at a book sale for the 2.5 inch thick book : "How To Cook Everything" | 19:15 |
| katsmeow-afk | turns out, i don't want to eat everything, or cook everything | 19:15 |
| katsmeow-afk | a few things i don't even want to touch | 19:16 |
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| delinquentme | katsmeow-afk, NOM NOM NAWM | 19:36 |
| nmz787 | katsmeow: is that by mark bittman? | 19:40 |
| katsmeow-afk | i don't remember, it's upstairs and i am not | 19:41 |
| katsmeow-afk | i am , however, eating dinner, food i prolly shouldn't be eating, but i been good for weeks | 19:41 |
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| katsmeow-afk | anyone for peppermint wheat? | 19:48 |
| katsmeow-afk | The first experiments with plants genetically modified to repel aphids are under way in the UK. | 19:48 |
| katsmeow-afk | Wheat has been engineered with a gene from a peppermint plant so that it emits a particular pheromone. | 19:48 |
| delinquentme | katsmeow-afk, you've been fasting? | 19:53 |
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| katsmeow-afk | no, but eating a lot less, ~1/4 normal, and 4x more protien than normal | 19:53 |
| katsmeow-afk | actually hit the us rda on it | 19:54 |
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| delinquentme | ketosis? | 20:00 |
| nmz787 | sounds like atkins | 20:01 |
| nmz787 | but katsmeow said they weren't fasting | 20:02 |
| nmz787 | so shouldn't be ketosis, right? I thought that's pretty much only mentioned if in fasting state | 20:02 |
| katsmeow-afk | it was just reduced calorie and more protein, it's no big deal, except that i stayed with it | 20:03 |
| ParahSailin | i cant get hungry enough | 20:06 |
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| augur | is there any cheap screen-mounted eye tracking available? | 20:33 |
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| sylph_mako | How accurate do you want it? | 20:36 |
| augur | not sure it matters | 20:36 |
| augur | in fact, a generic software solution would be ideal | 20:41 |
| augur | webcam + software type thing | 20:41 |
| augur | doesnt have to be very good | 20:41 |
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| delinquentme | lovely. lovely lovely | 21:15 |
| kanzure | it working? | 21:20 |
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| delinquentme | running tests | 21:41 |
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| delinquentme | kanzure, is this better as a instance var or as a normal var? http://pastie.org/3707204 | 22:32 |
| nmz787 | augur: might need two cameras for stereoscopic vision for best results... i have a friend that I can ask about it, he does experiments with eye tracking during ppl talking in ASL (american sign language) | 22:37 |
| nmz787 | i guess stereoscopic viz goes back the question, how accurate do you want the results | 22:37 |
| augur | nmz787: accurate enough to make a nice little videogame with it :p | 22:38 |
| augur | so it doesnt have to be *too* accurate | 22:38 |
| augur | maybe only accurate enough to detect blinks | 22:38 |
| nmz787 | hmm, so up down left right? or duck-hunt? | 22:39 |
| nmz787 | kanzure: I know a guy at GE healthcare, not sure if he would know, but should I ask about the price of the AKTA oligopilot? | 22:40 |
| augur | nmz787: the idea is you'd be a character with telepathy, and to use it, you have to focus on the target | 22:44 |
| augur | namely, staring without blinking | 22:44 |
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| sylph_mako | Make laservision duck hunt bro. | 23:00 |
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| katsmeow-afk | http://crypto.stanford.edu/~dabo/pubs/papers/privatebrowsing.pdf | 23:29 |
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| nmz787 | katsmeow-afk: pretty cool paper | 23:53 |
| superkuh | No Opera. :\ | 23:55 |
| katsmeow-afk | must be a way using two separate computers, one to run the browser on only as a display unit, and one to proxy and reformat and examine the data sent to the dispay unit | 23:57 |
| katsmeow-afk | it may be too much trouble for the average user, but some of us have more than one puter running at a time anyhow | 23:58 |
| --- Log closed Sun Apr 01 00:00:16 2012 | ||
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