| --- Log opened Fri Apr 06 00:00:23 2012 | ||
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| strangewarp | kanzure: I agree; in general it's an attention vortex, and all theory, no engineering | 00:08 |
|---|---|---|
| strangewarp | Ahahaha | 00:12 |
| strangewarp | One of the possible implications of this resimulation-related idea is that research into Friendly AI is effectively useless | 00:13 |
| strangewarp | I love it | 00:13 |
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| delinquentme | HOWDAH | 05:27 |
| delinquentme | ALL | 05:27 |
| delinquentme | WHATCHOO | 05:27 |
| delinquentme | DEW | 05:27 |
| delinquentme | in | 05:27 |
| delinquentme | kanzure, where be u | 05:39 |
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| JayDugger | Good morning, everyone. | 07:18 |
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| delinquentme | HOWDAH | 07:41 |
| delinquentme | ParahSailin_, you're a bio kid? | 07:47 |
| delinquentme | i forgot what the specialty was | 07:47 |
| ParahSailin_ | molecular biology, cell culture mostly | 07:57 |
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| kanzure | delinquentme: yes.. i'm around | 08:22 |
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| kanzure | video | 08:32 |
| kanzure | http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2012/04/06/writing-software-for-space-probes/ | 08:32 |
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| delinquentme | COOL | 08:32 |
| delinquentme | but i need to go now | 08:32 |
| delinquentme | ttyl | 08:32 |
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| kanzure | hm. 中文Python. | 08:38 |
| ParahSailin_ | what about it? | 08:44 |
| kanzure | didn't expect it. | 08:44 |
| ParahSailin_ | oh interesting, they translated the keywords | 08:45 |
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| diginet | so let's say I have a cell with a gene that I want to transfect to another cell. So I use restriction enyzmes to snip out the DNA I need, amplify it with PCR. How does one reassemble the different fragments in the right order? Or am I misunderstanding the process | 09:18 |
| kanzure | no you probably won't be able to use a restriction enzyme like that | 09:19 |
| kanzure | there's probably no restriction site nearby | 09:20 |
| ParahSailin_ | first, restriction enzyme step is redundant | 09:20 |
| kanzure | you want to PCR the gene out. so you need to go design yourself some good primers that target the gene in question. | 09:20 |
| diginet | oooohhh, I see, okay that makes sense | 09:20 |
| diginet | so just get primers soo that PCR can selectively target the area in question | 09:21 |
| kanzure | yep.. then you will probably run it through a gel. once it's separated you will cut your gene out of the gel and run it through a gel extraction protocol. | 09:22 |
| kanzure | ParahSailin_: well, i'm sure you would be better at explaining this | 09:22 |
| diginet | okay, but let's say for instance my gene is 10k long. Someone earlier said I would need around 10 primers or so. I trust the nucleotides will bond with the primers and form a complete sequence? | 09:22 |
| kanzure | 10 primers? | 09:23 |
| diginet | Too many? | 09:23 |
| ParahSailin_ | no you need a single primer pair | 09:23 |
| diginet | Oooh okay | 09:23 |
| kanzure | one for the start | 09:23 |
| diginet | (I probably misunderstood them) | 09:23 |
| kanzure | one for the end | 09:23 |
| diginet | ahhh right | 09:23 |
| ParahSailin_ | they were probably saying you'd need 10 primers to sequence it | 09:23 |
| diginet | OOOH yes, that's it | 09:23 |
| diginet | okay, this isn't as bad as I thought :P | 09:23 |
| diginet | So, the gel is to filter out the gene, since I know how long (and thus how heavy) it will be? | 09:24 |
| ParahSailin_ | the gel is to purify your fragment yes | 09:25 |
| kanzure | electrophoresis lets you separate dna by molecular weight | 09:25 |
| diginet | yeah | 09:25 |
| diginet | thanks guys | 09:26 |
| kanzure | no problem spiderman | 09:26 |
| diginet | hahaha :) | 09:26 |
| diginet | ooh one more question, so let's say I need to add a marker, antibiotic resistance, or a promoter, how is that done? | 09:26 |
| diginet | err, "such as. . . " in front of antibiotic | 09:27 |
| kanzure | are you going to sequence the fragment from the gel extraction? | 09:27 |
| ParahSailin_ | you clone your fragment into a plasmid | 09:28 |
| diginet | oh right | 09:31 |
| diginet | kanzure, I found a spider silk gene which has already been fully sequenced, so I can skip that step | 09:31 |
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| kanzure | ah right i remember | 09:32 |
| ParahSailin_ | no need to sequence anyway | 09:41 |
| ParahSailin_ | if you you have primers for the end, you can do whatever with it | 09:41 |
| kanzure | well i was hoping to save him the plasmid manipulation steps | 09:41 |
| kanzure | "just print out your plasmid" | 09:41 |
| ParahSailin_ | that will be nice | 09:44 |
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| kanzure | http://www.fastcompany.com/1829762/ibm-charlie-schick | 09:50 |
| kanzure | hrm.. isn't this that diybio guy who was doing fermentation? | 09:51 |
| kanzure | http://diybio.org/2010/11/22/i-brew-therefore-i-am | 09:51 |
| kanzure | that guy. | 09:51 |
| kanzure | "is IBM's Worldwide Director of Marketing, Big Data, Health Care, and Life Sciences" alright then.. | 09:51 |
| diginet | I'm saying, I have the entire sequence (I'm switching to L. hesperus from N. clavipes, the former of which has had the entire MaSp1 and 2 genes sequenced) | 09:52 |
| kanzure | eah i know | 09:52 |
| kanzure | *yeah | 09:52 |
| diginet | I was speaking to ParahSailin_, haha, sorry for not being clear | 09:52 |
| diginet | so I can just design a primer for the end of it | 09:52 |
| kanzure | if you have the sequence already you can probably just synthesize it for a few megabucks | 09:53 |
| kanzure | or email the person who published the paper and ask if you could pay for a copy or two | 09:53 |
| diginet | wouldn't getting the primers be cheaper? someone said some company was doing it for like $6, so $12 total? | 09:55 |
| kanzure | yes but if you get primers you need to go find some cells to get the genome | 09:55 |
| diginet | true, having black widows around, eeeh, not too fun | 09:56 |
| diginet | for that matter, I could email one of the people who collected the C. darwini specimen, and ask for a swab, and then try to sequence that gene, lol | 09:56 |
| diginet | except I don't know any of its sequence, so that might be rather hard | 09:56 |
| kanzure | go look at the MaSp1 gene on ncbi and contact the person who submitted it - they probably have the gene isolated in a test tube somewhere that they could PCR and mail to you | 09:57 |
| kanzure | second scenario: someone probably has genomic DNA for black widows. then you just ask them to ship you a copy. | 09:57 |
| diginet | good idea, the paper was published in an open access journal, so maybe they're more DIY friendly? | 09:58 |
| kanzure | not really | 10:00 |
| kanzure | worst case scenario you might have to convince ParahSailin_ to receive something for you | 10:01 |
| diginet | true | 10:01 |
| diginet | because you know, I could be AN EVIL MAD SCIENTIST TRYING TO BREED AN ARMY OF MUTANT CHIMPANZEE SPIDER HYBRIDS TO DO MY BIDDING | 10:02 |
| diginet | but that's not the case, definitely not | 10:02 |
| diginet | I'm definitely not breeding super fast maturing primates with hyperintelligence | 10:02 |
| kanzure | spiders would probably be the place to start to breed for interesting brains | 10:03 |
| kanzure | insects are easier to handle than chimps | 10:03 |
| kanzure | "Spiders are found worldwide on every continent except for Antarctica, and have become established in nearly every habitat with the exception of air and sea colonization." | 10:04 |
| kanzure | ok guys. how do we get spiders to colonize the sky. this has to be done. | 10:04 |
| kanzure | iirc some spiders shoot silk parachutes | 10:04 |
| diginet | meh, if I were to do something insane, it would be somehow ressurect dinosaurs | 10:04 |
| diginet | (caveat: I'm not deluded so as to believe that is remotely feasible) | 10:05 |
| kanzure | oops spiders don't count as insects. my bad. | 10:05 |
| diginet | actually, I'd rather have a pet dwarf mammoth | 10:05 |
| diginet | they were about the size of a Great Dane iirc | 10:05 |
| diginet | the latest known fossils of them are found in Weyland Island, Siberia | 10:06 |
| diginet | I PROPOSE AN EXPEDITION | 10:06 |
| kanzure | you could probably get spiders to colonize the sea surface if you get them to spin webs for rafts | 10:07 |
| diginet | haha | 10:07 |
| diginet | well, actually, there's a species of spider which builds silk submarines basically | 10:08 |
| kanzure | for eggs? | 10:08 |
| ParahSailin_ | seqwright would sequence that gene for like 100 bucks anyway | 10:11 |
| kanzure | "Spiderlings are known to survive without food travelling in air currents of jet streams for 25 days or longer." | 10:14 |
| ParahSailin_ | that word.. spiderlings.. gives me the creeps | 10:14 |
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| kanzure | ah right i remember this.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argyroneta_aquatica | 10:16 |
| kanzure | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_zvA8Ak7hY | 10:18 |
| kanzure | skip ahead.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_zvA8Ak7hY#t=120 | 10:18 |
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| delinquentme | " It talks about Hegelian dialects being the things that determine history" ... "They're sort of competing philosopies or competeing mean sets and you can look at modern history where its not so much genetics going to battle as a battle of mean structures ... " http://imgur.com/OEP9L | 11:50 |
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| klafka | meme ? | 11:56 |
| delinquentme | elon musk | 11:58 |
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| klafka | wow | 12:02 |
| klafka | he cofounded paypal, spacex and tesla motors | 12:03 |
| klafka | geeeez | 12:03 |
| klafka | guy does not fuck around | 12:03 |
| kanzure | hey wait wait. you should totally know about elon already. | 12:03 |
| kanzure | you know about peter thiel right? | 12:03 |
| kanzure | most people saw elon when he made an appearance in iron man 2. | 12:04 |
| ParahSailin_ | musk got pretty good roi in like 3 years on spacex | 12:04 |
| delinquentme | klafka, derr | 12:04 |
| ParahSailin_ | he put 100 million of his own money in, then nasa gave him 278 million grant | 12:04 |
| delinquentme | lololol klafka u nub | 12:04 |
| ParahSailin_ | wish i could do that | 12:04 |
| kanzure | ParahSailin_: you could always do the same stunt the xprize did... insurance fraud on a $10 mil prize | 12:04 |
| delinquentme | ANWAYS anyone care to venture a guess as to what these hegelian dialects are about | 12:04 |
| klafka | i know about peter thiel | 12:05 |
| delinquentme | clearly its about how do you amass power / excercise influence | 12:05 |
| delinquentme | kanzure, what? | 12:05 |
| delinquentme | @ xprise comment | 12:05 |
| klafka | don't even try to go to hegelian dialectics delinquentme | 12:05 |
| klafka | that's a deep pit of annoyance | 12:05 |
| klafka | hegel is incredibly opaque | 12:05 |
| kanzure | delinquentme: xprize money was from an insurance company | 12:06 |
| delinquentme | klafka, nedz TLDR | 12:06 |
| delinquentme | was it! | 12:06 |
| kanzure | the insurance companies insured against anyone winning | 12:06 |
| kanzure | but they guys who setup xprize already had a winning entry | 12:06 |
| delinquentme | who would ensure against that winning?? | 12:06 |
| delinquentme | thats silly is it not? | 12:06 |
| delinquentme | and like anti-human-progress | 12:06 |
| kanzure | insurane companies will insure all sorts of things | 12:06 |
| delinquentme | Oh wait... yeap thats an insurance company | 12:06 |
| delinquentme | joking aside .. wtf? | 12:06 |
| kanzure | yep.. fucked up, isn't it | 12:07 |
| klafka | delinquentme people make a big business about betting for or against anything | 12:07 |
| klafka | particularly insurance companies | 12:07 |
| klafka | that's part of how the crash in '09 happened | 12:07 |
| delinquentme | hmmmm | 12:07 |
| klafka | actually that IS basically how it happened | 12:07 |
| delinquentme | ok so hegel | 12:07 |
| klafka | i wish there was an indian restaurant near me | 12:08 |
| klafka | i wonder if there is a coffeeshop in berkeley i can work and get indian food nearby | 12:08 |
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| lichen | vaguely h+ related https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4g60zB4Un4 | 12:24 |
| kanzure | what is it? | 12:25 |
| delinquentme | Ok electronics kids: http://search.digikey.com/us/en/products/GP2D120XJ00F/425-2469-ND/738664?wt.z_cid=ref_octopart_dkc_buynow | 12:26 |
| delinquentme | how do I figure out the resolution I can get off of that? | 12:26 |
| lichen | ted talk from a fashion designer | 12:26 |
| delinquentme | O_o | 12:26 |
| lichen | though its more of her just spouting her resume | 12:26 |
| delinquentme | log~del | 12:27 |
| delinquentme | jk jk | 12:27 |
| delinquentme | http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=climbing-mount-immortality | 12:30 |
| delinquentme | there u go | 12:30 |
| lichen | That leaves us with the legacy narrative, of which Woody Allen quipped: "I don’t want to achieve immortality through my work; I want to achieve it by not dying." | 12:32 |
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| delinquentme | lichen, what does? | 12:35 |
| lichen | ? | 12:36 |
| lichen | what does what | 12:36 |
| delinquentme | "that leaves us with the legacy ... " | 12:37 |
| delinquentme | the above mentioned "that " = ? | 12:37 |
| lichen | oh, it was pulled from the article you linked | 12:37 |
| lichen | i just liked the quote | 12:37 |
| lichen | preceding it was "When the brain dies of injury, stroke, dementia or Alzheimer’s, the mind dies with it. No brain, no mind; no body, no soul." | 12:37 |
| kanzure | "I have strong ethics and no morals and I am only out to serve myself and the enhancement of my own telomeres." jonathan is keeping it real on diybio | 13:01 |
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| delinquentme | jcline? | 13:07 |
| delinquentme | kanzure, | 13:07 |
| delinquentme | lichen, ohhhh i havnt red it yet | 13:07 |
| kanzure | jcvi might be interested in synthesizer | 13:08 |
| delinquentme | ? | 13:09 |
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| kanzure | j. craig venter institute | 13:09 |
| delinquentme | ya awesome | 13:10 |
| delinquentme | nmz7871, build build | 13:10 |
| delinquentme | also distance sensing | 13:10 |
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| delinquentme | <3 | 13:24 |
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| kanzure | "Is any of this confidential, or may I forward this to Craig Venter?" | 13:28 |
| nmz7871 | ? | 13:29 |
| ParahSailin_ | dont let it get patent encumbered is my warning | 13:30 |
| ParahSailin_ | actually never mind, if they do, molon labe! | 13:31 |
| kanzure | nmz7871: i have a transhumanist buddy at jcvi | 13:32 |
| kanzure | he asked me to explain in an email what i'm up to | 13:32 |
| kanzure | because jcvi had some guest speaker today who was complaining about synthesis | 13:32 |
| nmz7871 | ahh | 13:37 |
| kanzure | hmm weird they have a uservoices account | 13:59 |
| kanzure | http://jcvi.uservoice.com/forums/27749-cloud-computing | 13:59 |
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| kanzure | yashgaroth: today we are making fun of klafka as a group | 14:17 |
| yashgaroth | haha I've been catching up on the logs | 14:17 |
| kanzure | what happened to randallgordon, elmom, kristianpaul, cryptoquick, davemenn1nger, or parolang | 14:21 |
| klafka | kwooh | 14:21 |
| jrayhawk | haha "means" | 14:23 |
| jrayhawk | it's awesome when journalists know less about the communication of ideas than their subjects | 14:23 |
| jrayhawk | (re: that elon musk article) | 14:24 |
| kanzure | fa-18 hornet crash http://i.imgur.com/arcto.jpg | 14:27 |
| katsmeow-afk | something disconcerting about that | 14:28 |
| katsmeow-afk | ah, the different positions of the engines' turkey feathers | 14:29 |
| kanzure | well, presumably this is not in factory condition | 14:29 |
| jrayhawk | "12:07 < klafka> particularly insurance companies" "12:07 < klafka> actually that IS basically how it happened" no, the essential factor was fraudulant credit ratings standards (A-rated CDO) due to the foxes guarding the henhouse. The CDS market and the low interest rates certainly made it worse, but it still would've otherwise happened. | 14:31 |
| jrayhawk | The CDS bubble has not actually burst, and it would be complete fucking chaos if it did. | 14:31 |
| jrayhawk | It would probably be the end of most first world currencies. | 14:31 |
| katsmeow-afk | http://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/colink/Moose%20Jaw%202008/P7150006.jpg <<== closeup of the turkeyfeathers on the F-18 tail, both engines should be set the same, but they aren't in the crash pic | 14:32 |
| jrayhawk | "By the end of 2007, the outstanding CDS amount was $62.2 trillion, falling to $26.3 trillion by mid-year 2010 but reportedly $25.5 trillion in early 2012." | 14:33 |
| jrayhawk | the housing market size, by comparison, is adorable. | 14:33 |
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| jrayhawk | Actually, the CDS bubble did burst in Greece. | 14:34 |
| jrayhawk | it's nice to know that the CDS market is less than the worldwide annual GDP, now, though. | 14:37 |
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| kanzure | "The Bank for International Settlements estimates that outstanding derivatives total $708 trillion" | 14:45 |
| jrayhawk | aaaaaaaaa | 14:45 |
| kanzure | from http://www.bis.org/publ/otc_hy1111.pdf | 14:45 |
| kanzure | "in trillions of US dollars" nice. i wish this is how all of my graphs would be labelled. | 14:47 |
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| kristianpaul | hola :) | 14:47 |
| kanzure | hello! welcome back. | 14:48 |
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| kanzure | what. | 14:48 |
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| fenn | if it was too micro it wouldn't blend | 14:50 |
| fenn | gah | 14:50 |
| kristianpaul | thanks kanzure | 14:51 |
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| kristianpaul | what happened to kristianpaul i bought a milkymist and nanonote one and finished building the reprap | 14:54 |
| fenn | i'd prefer buying actual components and assembling than getting some random possibly not-working xy table on ebay | 14:54 |
| fenn | also, makes it easier to document | 14:54 |
| kristianpaul | then start learning about gps-gnss | 14:54 |
| kristianpaul | some C, verilog SoC design.. | 14:55 |
| kanzure | fenn: what are your thoughts on a one-off machine design, or something that others might be able to use (something that could be sold as a kit if someone was inclined to do such a thing) | 14:55 |
| kristianpaul | still not start moding the reprap as a chemical sintesizer... | 14:56 |
| kristianpaul | but i will nead home made soap at some point.. | 14:56 |
| kanzure | http://dvice.com/archives/2012/02/it-would-cost-8.php | 15:05 |
| kanzure | "It would cost $852 quadrillion dollars to build a real Death Star" | 15:05 |
| kanzure | i bet i could do it for 1/852 that cost | 15:05 |
| kanzure | "The Earth's iron supply is capable of building 2 billion Death Stars" it must be done | 15:06 |
| jrayhawk | asteroid mining would be a lot more practical | 15:15 |
| JayDugger | Only in ##hplusroadmap would the sentence "asteroid mining would be a lot more practical" ever appear. :) | 15:15 |
| jrayhawk | oh god what have i become | 15:16 |
| JayDugger | My future neighbor, as measured by | 15:17 |
| JayDugger | delta-v. | 15:17 |
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| delinquentme | ok kanzure heres what im thinking on the journals | 15:41 |
| delinquentme | locate urls and names for all the research journals | 15:41 |
| kanzure | ok | 15:41 |
| delinquentme | publishers and urls rather | 15:41 |
| delinquentme | then the difficult bit is locating the index for each of the journals | 15:42 |
| delinquentme | so out source that | 15:42 |
| kanzure | why outsource it | 15:42 |
| kanzure | i mean, are you having trouble? | 15:42 |
| delinquentme | obscene # of man hours | 15:43 |
| delinquentme | like youve got 21 journals listed | 15:43 |
| delinquentme | there are thousands | 15:43 |
| kanzure | 21 publishers. | 15:44 |
| delinquentme | publishers | 15:44 |
| delinquentme | correct | 15:44 |
| kanzure | ok so 2 hours per scraper per publisher | 15:44 |
| kanzure | 40 hours | 15:44 |
| delinquentme | im 1/3rd of the way through that | 15:44 |
| uniqanomaly | delinquentme: put code on github, link to it at hackernews reddit and else, other humanz will join your efforts | 15:46 |
| uniqanomaly | :P | 15:46 |
| kanzure | i'd rather not do that yet since the architecture isn't stable yet | 15:47 |
| delinquentme | thats not a bad idea | 15:47 |
| delinquentme | and i'd also get crits on my code | 15:47 |
| kanzure | for instance, we haven't set up mongo yet | 15:47 |
| kanzure | if you want criticism i will give you mountains of it | 15:47 |
| uniqanomaly | :D | 15:47 |
| kanzure | let's wait until we set up mongo and the adapter framework ok? | 15:47 |
| kanzure | then we can just plug them in | 15:48 |
| kanzure | and i'll write the rest in <40 hours | 15:48 |
| delinquentme | i can work w that | 15:48 |
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| delinquentme | so what about the class structure of publishers / journals / issues / volumes | 15:48 |
| kanzure | what about it. | 15:48 |
| kanzure | apparently i have to do that too | 15:48 |
| delinquentme | so journals | 15:48 |
| AdrianG | whats the best GTD application | 15:48 |
| kanzure | AdrianG: a personal assistant | 15:49 |
| delinquentme | are kind of the nugget we're working with | 15:49 |
| AdrianG | kanzure: ok an affordable version | 15:49 |
| delinquentme | AdrianG, i liked RTM | 15:49 |
| kanzure | not really. papers.. | 15:49 |
| delinquentme | but id prob go with evarnote | 15:49 |
| kanzure | AdrianG: you can get assistants that charge anywhere from $1/hour to $2/hour.. | 15:49 |
| kanzure | if a GTD app means $x in value i am pretty sure it will be x>2/hour | 15:49 |
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| delinquentme | in the context of the scraper | 15:50 |
| delinquentme | ? | 15:50 |
| AdrianG | i dont want to use an assistant. | 15:50 |
| AdrianG | i want to use my head. | 15:50 |
| delinquentme | AdrianG, rememberthemilk.com | 15:50 |
| kanzure | delinquentme: the scrapers are getting bibtex for each paper in each journal | 15:50 |
| delinquentme | also astrid | 15:50 |
| delinquentme | my scrapers right now are simply creating json entries of the indexes of all these journals | 15:51 |
| delinquentme | not everyone has bibtex downloadable citations | 15:51 |
| kanzure | "indexes" means "papers" | 15:51 |
| kanzure | yes but everyone has the same information that could be represented as bibtex | 15:51 |
| kanzure | i don't care if it is bibtex or not as long as the same metadata is parsed correctly | 15:51 |
| delinquentme | indexes means Science journal of the shiskabob Volumes 1-24 years 2001-2012 issues XY | 15:51 |
| kanzure | index means "Paper 1, title, authors, in journal shiskabob volume 1, issue 1, 2001" | 15:52 |
| kanzure | with the other per-paper metadata | 15:52 |
| kanzure | but journal-existence-metadata is also useful | 15:52 |
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| kanzure | delinquentme: i'll write up the framework real quick. give me an hour. | 15:55 |
| kanzure | if you send me over your code, i'll make sure it works with it | 15:55 |
| delinquentme | so i dont need that | 15:56 |
| delinquentme | explicitly | 15:56 |
| delinquentme | what i need | 15:56 |
| delinquentme | is you to take the code sample i sent along and write it how you'd write it | 15:56 |
| delinquentme | that is what i need | 15:56 |
| kanzure | yeah i know. | 15:56 |
| kanzure | but you said you have 10 other scrapers? | 15:56 |
| fenn | AdrianG: emacs org mode | 15:58 |
| delinquentme | correct | 15:58 |
| delinquentme | and I want to write with classes and properly format them | 15:59 |
| AdrianG | fenn: uve got to be kidding me | 15:59 |
| fenn | do you know what org mode is? | 16:00 |
| kanzure | delinquentme: yes i know. give me an hour. | 16:00 |
| delinquentme | kk | 16:00 |
| nmz787 | classes? who uses those anymore | 16:02 |
| nmz787 | should all the scraped data be going into postgres or sqllite? | 16:03 |
| kanzure | well | 16:03 |
| kanzure | right now it's going into flatfiles | 16:03 |
| kanzure | i think mongodb is a good solution for this | 16:04 |
| kanzure | i'd prefer sqlite over postgresql | 16:04 |
| kanzure | shuttup i'm coding :P | 16:04 |
| kanzure | part of the reason for mongodb is that some publishers/entities have different schemas and this isn't entirely doable with sqlite without creating separate models all the time or new columns or something silly | 16:04 |
| fenn | data regularity is more important than the exact storage mechanism | 16:05 |
| fenn | you will probably need some intermediate steps | 16:05 |
| kanzure | yes but i don't want to add a special new column to a db just because some publisher has an extra random hash i need to store | 16:05 |
| kanzure | although.. sqlite would win me minimalism points | 16:05 |
| fenn | nmz787: so i'm thinking of going with something like this, it seems more reproducible and i know exactly what i'm getting: http://www.amazon.com/12mm-Guideway-System-Linear-Motion/dp/B002BBJFA2 | 16:06 |
| fenn | instead of surplus junk | 16:06 |
| fenn | wish ceramic weren't so expensive | 16:09 |
| fenn | i guess it doesnt matter for 1 micron accuracy | 16:09 |
| nmz787 | is there a better place to get this type of thing other than amazon? | 16:10 |
| fenn | i'm looking at vxb.com | 16:10 |
| fenn | there are possibly other sites, just having problems figuring out the correct keyword | 16:11 |
| fenn | i thought this was called "lab rail" but apparently that doesn't work | 16:11 |
| nmz787 | so we'd need 4 of these, and 2 screws? | 16:11 |
| nmz787 | slide rail? | 16:11 |
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| fenn | probably want to chop it in half, so 2 of them, and 2 more bearing blocks (triangular support not square) | 16:12 |
| fenn | and 2 screws, and motors, and motor mounts, and bearing blocks, and a big ol plate to bolt it all to | 16:12 |
| nmz787 | hmm, well the linear stages new were, what, $2.5k? | 16:13 |
| fenn | i'm thinking either a granite surface plate from enco, or one of those optics breadboards | 16:13 |
| nmz787 | so that's the price we need to beat | 16:13 |
| fenn | i'm sure it will be less than $1k | 16:14 |
| nmz787 | it would be nice to buy something off the shelf, so we don't have to invest in time and research for the gantry | 16:15 |
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| fenn | yeah, it might be possible to just get a zen mill | 16:15 |
| nmz787 | that v90 fireball is 5080 microns per turn | 16:16 |
| fenn | you'd have to get new screws of course | 16:16 |
| nmz787 | wikipedia says steppers are usually 200 steps per rev | 16:16 |
| nmz787 | so that's ~25 microns per full step | 16:16 |
| nmz787 | bigger than i'd like, but it could work | 16:17 |
| nmz787 | unless the screw is too tight as you've mentioned | 16:17 |
| nmz787 | why get new screws, too tight? | 16:17 |
| nmz787 | (the anti-backlash nut) | 16:17 |
| fenn | you can rely on at least half-steps | 16:18 |
| fenn | "why get new screws"? | 16:18 |
| nmz787 | it wouldn't be too hard to get an interferometer on there, but i don't know if vibration would kill things | 16:18 |
| fenn | i dont like the design of the zen mill though; it's basically just a bunch of plastic with wimpy rods and non-kinematic bearings | 16:18 |
| nmz787 | if vibes were too much, we'd have to sample pretty fast and do some DSP on the output | 16:19 |
| fenn | if there's vibration, fix the vibration | 16:19 |
| fenn | because that will fuck with the channel smoothness too | 16:19 |
| fenn | active positioning (fast tool servo) is still high magick | 16:20 |
| fenn | i'd like to learn how to do that, but not on this project | 16:20 |
| delinquentme | zen mill? | 16:22 |
| uniqanomaly | guys you think there is rebound effect with tDCS? | 16:23 |
| uniqanomaly | like in sudden discontinuation | 16:24 |
| delinquentme | uniqanomaly, id bet that the rebound is comparable to the focus gains | 16:24 |
| delinquentme | if there was any | 16:25 |
| fenn | yes, you'll turn into a hardcore wireheading junky | 16:25 |
| delinquentme | is say highly unlikely that it would be worse | 16:25 |
| uniqanomaly | theoretically of course\ | 16:25 |
| delinquentme | much worse | 16:25 |
| nmz787 | the noise on alibaba searching for "small laser cutter" is annoying | 16:25 |
| uniqanomaly | I mean after using it 24/7 for week or so | 16:25 |
| uniqanomaly | delinquentme: problem with drugs is you get much worse after discontinuation | 16:26 |
| uniqanomaly | antidepressants, benzo or other stuff | 16:26 |
| delinquentme | uniqanomaly, i had no idea | 16:26 |
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| delinquentme | :P | 16:27 |
| delinquentme | < goo dkid | 16:27 |
| delinquentme | NOOO THE PLANE LEFT | 16:27 |
| uniqanomaly | you get soo mach worse that it was before you started taking 'em | 16:27 |
| uniqanomaly | for curing whatever you need to cure | 16:27 |
| uniqanomaly | :D | 16:27 |
| fenn | please justify that statement | 16:27 |
| nmz787 | fenn: "screw laser cutter" returns some stuff mentioning ball screw | 16:27 |
| fenn | yes ball screws would be good | 16:27 |
| * delinquentme keeps it professional | 16:28 | |
| fenn | since this is an optics thing, we can get away with a spring to eliminate backlash, instead of anti-backlash nuts | 16:28 |
| fenn | i don't get why aluminum extrusion rails are so expensive | 16:30 |
| nmz787 | yeah | 16:31 |
| delinquentme | fenn, how does one use a spring to eliminate backlash? | 16:31 |
| nmz787 | especially when cdroms, scanners, commodity shit has what we need | 16:31 |
| katsmeow-afk | you push the piece aganst the nut, maintaining contact at all times | 16:31 |
| delinquentme | fenn, specific reason you're using alu? not just polished steel? | 16:31 |
| delinquentme | katsmeow-afk, do you have a diagram? | 16:32 |
| fenn | scanners is not a bad idea. they usually use plain bearings though, which will introduce slop | 16:32 |
| katsmeow-afk | steel rusts, al is light and available | 16:32 |
| katsmeow-afk | a diagram of a spring? umm, no | 16:32 |
| fenn | delinquentme: i'd rather the whole system be made from materials with similar coefficient of thermal expansion | 16:32 |
| fenn | keeps it from warping out of shape | 16:33 |
| delinquentme | nice idea.. but how much heat do you think will be transferred | 16:33 |
| delinquentme | nm | 16:33 |
| fenn | nmz787: we will probably end up using your interferometer idea to check the accuracy of the table | 16:33 |
| fenn | just for ambient temperature change | 16:34 |
| nmz787 | what about doing crazy math on the CAD file, to produce what we want with just a CDROM... i.e. 1 axis plus a rotating disc of PDMS | 16:34 |
| nmz787 | well, it would be raster then, not vector | 16:34 |
| nmz787 | nvrmind | 16:35 |
| nmz787 | alibaba doesn't give me anything for "cdrom parts" | 16:35 |
| fenn | gee i wonder why | 16:35 |
| uniqanomaly | guys, what do you think about creating h+ village or something | 16:36 |
| fenn | i'd prefer a borg encampment | 16:36 |
| fenn | not a ren faire :P | 16:36 |
| uniqanomaly | perhaps by populating a dying city or just translocating to some not dying | 16:37 |
| fenn | society for creative futurism | 16:37 |
| uniqanomaly | one | 16:37 |
| katsmeow-afk | anachronism != past , sca could be taken over for future | 16:38 |
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| nmz787 | bbl | 16:38 |
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| nmz787 | seems we just need to suck it up and start a parts list | 16:38 |
| fenn | yeah i'm doing that, just shopping around first | 16:39 |
| nmz787 | it would be nice to find the rails and screws that are appropriate, and worry about the base, etc later... that way we can start with an optics breadboard, then if we want to sell them as kits, just machine the right mounting board out of aluminum later | 16:40 |
| nmz787 | have you done this before, or are you just as naive when it comes to these rails and things as me? | 16:40 |
| delinquentme | misumi is a decent parts distributor | 16:40 |
| delinquentme | lots of metric | 16:41 |
| nmz787 | should i start joining CNC forums and posting that we need light-duty mini gantry? | 16:41 |
| fenn | no | 16:45 |
| fenn | CNC people don't know anything about precision | 16:45 |
| fenn | you could talk to toastydeath but he'll probably just start going on and on about air bearings | 16:46 |
| fenn | i've dome some projects like this but not with an eye for precision | 16:46 |
| fenn | hmm | 16:48 |
| fenn | "Mic 6 I have seen was cast Al. Blanchard ground, guaranteed to be .001 flat. It really sucks to cut. It doesn't form nice chips...pretty gummy. It's lacking the alloying agents of it's cousins. The one advantage to Mic 6.......it's extremeley stable. When a larger pattern is cut out of a sheet it usually stays relatively flat." | 16:48 |
| nmz787 | maglev this shit instead of screws | 16:49 |
| fenn | possible but spend a lot more on electronics to control linear motors | 16:50 |
| fenn | maybe the granite isn't really necessary and can just bolt on mass in the form of lead weights | 16:52 |
| nmz787 | http://www.motiontek.ca/ | 16:52 |
| nmz787 | if the gantry is well secured to the table... would they move together? | 16:53 |
| fenn | what table | 16:53 |
| fenn | vxb is about half the price of motiontek.ca | 16:54 |
| fenn | at least for round rail | 16:54 |
| nmz787 | http://www.mydiycnc.com/catalog/2 | 16:55 |
| nmz787 | table==base of the cutter | 16:56 |
| nmz787 | vxb looks decent | 16:57 |
| nmz787 | how many mm thick do you think the rods need to be | 16:57 |
| nmz787 | ? | 16:57 |
| nmz787 | seems like the 6mm or 1/4" would suffice | 16:58 |
| nmz787 | doesn't look like they have trucks/bearings with mounts for the 6mm rails | 16:59 |
| fenn | assuming the plate provides the stiffness, small is fine | 16:59 |
| fenn | there are 8mm trucks and 12mm trucks | 16:59 |
| nmz787 | i see that | 16:59 |
| nmz787 | these prices seem pretty reasonable | 17:00 |
| nmz787 | seems like we could have the gantry, minus motors for <~$100 | 17:00 |
| fenn | i don't see any support rail for 8mm so i'm thinking of going with 12mm | 17:01 |
| fenn | no you need support rail | 17:01 |
| fenn | so more like $250 | 17:01 |
| nmz787 | http://www.vxb.com/page/bearings/PROD/8mmLinearMotionSystems/Kit8264 | 17:01 |
| nmz787 | why not those with the straight rods? | 17:01 |
| fenn | what the rods are just going to dangle in the air? no thanks | 17:02 |
| nmz787 | hmm? | 17:02 |
| nmz787 | supported at each end | 17:02 |
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| fenn | maybe i've been corrupted by the cnc gods but i can't stand it when people make freely suspended bearings like that | 17:02 |
| fenn | any tiny bit of force and the whole thing wobbles around | 17:03 |
| nmz787 | oh, why not? its moving a laser fiber or mirror and some lenses | 17:03 |
| nmz787 | you think it will sag? | 17:03 |
| fenn | more worried about vibration | 17:03 |
| fenn | steel has poor damping | 17:04 |
| fenn | my first cnc gantry was freely suspended rods, let's just say i was surprised at how much motion was possible with little force | 17:05 |
| nmz787 | 44"inch support rod, cut in 3 would be long enough... we'd still need 2 though | 17:05 |
| nmz787 | there's $140 | 17:05 |
| fenn | yeah i think 22" per axis would be big enough | 17:05 |
| fenn | plus bearings, plus bearing blocks, plus steppers, plus leadscrews and nuts and misc hardware | 17:06 |
| nmz787 | well if we're thinking 6" per side of the chip | 17:06 |
| nmz787 | 22" inches is still overkill | 17:06 |
| fenn | yeah | 17:06 |
| nmz787 | what about warping if we cut it | 17:07 |
| fenn | could get one 78" and cut into 4 | 17:07 |
| fenn | put wet rags on the rail before cutting | 17:07 |
| nmz787 | cut it slowwwllylyyy | 17:07 |
| fenn | s/before/during/ | 17:07 |
| fenn | i dont think the rail is hardened so can use bandsaw, which will reduce warping to negligible | 17:08 |
| nmz787 | we can also email vxb to see if they can special order the 6mm support rod | 17:09 |
| nmz787 | i really don't think we need so much material | 17:09 |
| nmz787 | is this the style we need truck-wise: http://www.vxb.com/page/bearings/PROD/12mmLinearMotionSystems/kit990 | 17:11 |
| nmz787 | alright sent an email to vxb asking if they can get those components in smaller sizes | 17:12 |
| nmz787 | bbl, signing off, will check logs | 17:12 |
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| fenn | i am thinking about going with 3/8-40 acme leadscrews from mcmaster instead of 1/4 (can't find 1/4 anyway) | 17:31 |
| fenn | then i can machine regular 1/4-20 threads and bearing mounts on the end | 17:32 |
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| fenn | grr i dont see why it should be so difficult to buy a flexture for mounting a nut to a platform | 17:47 |
| fenn | aw jesus christ the first result for "nut flexture" is my roommate (practically) http://www.mad-engineer.com/engineering/pet-projects/3-axis-cnc-mill/attachment/sony-dsc-9/ | 17:49 |
| jrayhawk | gross | 17:51 |
| klafka | Of course, people commit suicide all the time. Some people?s lives are so miserable that death is a step up. And then there are others who?ve been bitten by the Heaven meme, are somehow convinced that they?re going to go to Space Disneyland when they die ; and some of those think the fastest way to get there is to take as many heathens with them when they check out. That might be your early-adopter demographic for the Sin | 17:55 |
| klafka | gularity. | 17:55 |
| klafka | http://www.actusf.com/spip/Interview-Peter-Watts-VO-2012.html | 17:55 |
| klafka | pretty interesting | 17:55 |
| delinquentme | lol | 17:57 |
| fenn | "That might be your early-adopter demographic for the Singularity." i'm pretty sure the author and i disagree on what "the singularity" means | 17:57 |
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| fenn | this is cute http://www.haydonkerk.com/LinearActuatorProducts/LinearRailsGuidesSplines/ScrewRailLinearActuators/tabid/219/Default.aspx | 18:00 |
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| kanzure | gahh | 18:28 |
| kanzure | someone should create a sciencedirect rss aggregator so that we can get around their dumb login-to-get-rss thing | 18:28 |
| kanzure | i once subscribed to all of their feeds at once heh | 18:28 |
| kanzure | delinquentme: ok give me a little bit more time | 18:29 |
| delinquentme | hahaha | 18:29 |
| delinquentme | sure | 18:29 |
| delinquentme | lemme locate a few of these weird journals which have crappy code | 18:30 |
| delinquentme | well have to figure out a way to work around their tags | 18:30 |
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| kanzure | jrayhawk: be nice | 18:33 |
| nmz787 | fenn: any progress? | 18:34 |
| kanzure | delinquentme: no i mean, i have something working, but give me a little bit more time | 18:35 |
| delinquentme | fenn, FYI #seattlerobotics and #robotics | 18:35 |
| delinquentme | and with mech stuff its all about what you call it | 18:36 |
| delinquentme | linear string encoder vrs string pot | 18:36 |
| delinquentme | kanzure, should I interrupt you and give you more to chew on or do you want to finish what you're doing? | 18:36 |
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| kanzure | delinquentme: sure give me what you have | 18:37 |
| delinquentme | kanz | 18:38 |
| delinquentme | why do i feel like im gonna get fucked in the ass | 18:38 |
| kanzure | haha because i just wrote a shitload of python | 18:38 |
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| kanzure | and you're going to hate me for that | 18:38 |
| delinquentme | oh well yeah | 18:38 |
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| kanzure | you'll like it | 18:38 |
| delinquentme | for why? | 18:38 |
| kanzure | because i'm using some old code too (pyscholar, etc..) | 18:39 |
| delinquentme | so | 18:39 |
| delinquentme | do we port these together? | 18:40 |
| kanzure | yeah i'll rewrite your stuff real fast | 18:40 |
| delinquentme | fack man | 18:40 |
| kanzure | and | 18:40 |
| kanzure | i'll add my sciencedirect scraper | 18:40 |
| kanzure | that we talked about from february | 18:40 |
| kanzure | i don't think you've seen that yet? | 18:40 |
| delinquentme | specifically im trying to write more in ruby | 18:40 |
| delinquentme | so that causes issues | 18:41 |
| kanzure | i don't think so. we can set some scrapers to run independently as long as they have the same input/output. | 18:41 |
| kanzure | doesn't matter | 18:41 |
| kanzure | "volume = year, issue = sequence" ? | 18:42 |
| delinquentme | true | 18:43 |
| delinquentme | i dont follow on volume = year | 18:43 |
| delinquentme | or the other | 18:43 |
| kanzure | nevermind i have a better idea | 18:44 |
| kanzure | i thought the ordering would matter but it doesn't. | 18:45 |
| * fenn pokes CIA-92 | 18:49 | |
| fenn | we should set that up with diyhpluswiki | 18:49 |
| kanzure | use the skdb.git post-receive-hook that controls gnusha | 18:50 |
| kanzure | oh i guess i have to do that | 18:50 |
| delinquentme | true.eql? true # => true | 18:51 |
| delinquentme | niftah | 18:51 |
| kanzure | fenn: try now.. push up some crap, see if it works, then git reset --HARD head^ and push -f | 18:52 |
| kanzure | oh it uses /home/gnusha/.irssi/socket | 18:53 |
| kanzure | jrayhawk: what? | 18:53 |
| delinquentme | or git log | 18:54 |
| delinquentme | and get the hash that you want just incase | 18:54 |
| delinquentme | but theres always reflog! | 18:54 |
| kanzure | the post-receive hook on the server won't do anything if you push a commit it already has | 18:55 |
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| fenn | remote: 2012/04/06 19:03:39 socat[30723] E connect(3, AF=1 "/home/gnusha/.irssi/socket", 28): No such file or directory | 19:04 |
| kanzure | yeah i'm not sure what jrayhawk is thinking :( | 19:05 |
| kanzure | i've disabled the hook for now | 19:05 |
| fenn | we could probably make 2 of these for about the same cost, since the rail and leadscrew comes in 6 foot lengths | 19:06 |
| nmz787 | lol | 19:06 |
| nmz787 | sounds like it is more prone to bending during shipping | 19:06 |
| nmz787 | if so long | 19:06 |
| fenn | maybe | 19:07 |
| nmz787 | the short sections may get cut right after they're machined | 19:07 |
| fenn | just don't order a bunch of other long stuff in the same shipment | 19:07 |
| fenn | they will put it in a cardboard tube | 19:07 |
| nmz787 | anyone ever hear if fish drugs are purified by HPLC, or just crude recrystalisation? | 19:10 |
| fenn | like tetracycline? | 19:11 |
| kanzure | fenn: is this it? | 19:12 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/projects/laser_etcher | 19:12 |
| kanzure | nmz787: ^ | 19:12 |
| nmz787 | yeah, antibiotics, antifungals, antiprotozoans | 19:12 |
| nmz787 | all that shyt | 19:12 |
| nmz787 | gah | 19:12 |
| nmz787 | how do i see the real wiki? | 19:13 |
| nmz787 | i.e. gui | 19:13 |
| kanzure | the gui doesn't have anything that's not on http://diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=94d3316e390e5cf5c4769d43a1dced7abe525755 | 19:13 |
| nmz787 | fenn: why such thick screw? | 19:13 |
| nmz787 | i think we should keep the mass low | 19:13 |
| kanzure | you can clone the repo tho... git clone git://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki.git | 19:13 |
| nmz787 | i dont want to use git | 19:14 |
| nmz787 | i hate revision control | 19:14 |
| kanzure | a wiki uses revision control | 19:14 |
| nmz787 | yeah | 19:14 |
| nmz787 | but its easier to just click edit | 19:14 |
| kanzure | ok just making sure that connection was made :P | 19:14 |
| kanzure | ah. not this wiki! haha | 19:14 |
| kanzure | actually.. wait | 19:14 |
| nmz787 | grrr | 19:14 |
| kanzure | nmz787: https://secure.diyhpl.us/write/diyhpluswiki/ikiwiki.cgi?page=projects/laser_etcher&do=edit | 19:14 |
| kanzure | "Error: projects/laser_etcher is not an editable page" | 19:15 |
| nmz787 | chrome wont let me pass | 19:15 |
| charlieschwabach | so I have been lurking and just went through logs.. | 19:15 |
| fenn | you probably have to rename it to .mdwn or .txt | 19:15 |
| charlieschwabach | this might be worth looking into as a bearing: http://makerslide.com/ | 19:15 |
| fenn | charlieschwabach: i refuse to use anything with maker in the name | 19:15 |
| kanzure | charlieschwabach: isn't that the buildlog person | 19:15 |
| charlieschwabach | yes, it is the build log guy | 19:16 |
| charlieschwabach | haha @maker in the name | 19:16 |
| nmz787 | charlesschwabach: that looks too crude | 19:16 |
| fenn | also i think that's a retarded idea | 19:16 |
| kanzure | nmz787: well. maybe you can convince fenn to use google docs or piratepad | 19:17 |
| charlieschwabach | yeah, he uses it for a laser cutter, but I'm sure not w/ the accuracy you guys are looking for | 19:17 |
| nmz787 | kanzure: with pidgin is there a way to easily click on someones name to have it pasted into the messagebox? | 19:17 |
| nmz787 | google is decent | 19:17 |
| fenn | charlieschwabach: you can just lay some round rod into the grooves in a standard t-slot extrusion | 19:17 |
| delinquentme | nmz787, fenn if you guys have people @ universites you like me to contact for tools etc let me know | 19:17 |
| delinquentme | kanzure, ^ | 19:17 |
| fenn | then the rod is hardened, unlike aluminum extrusion | 19:17 |
| nmz787 | cool | 19:17 |
| kanzure | we're looking for 1 micron resolution | 19:17 |
| charlieschwabach | i would think this is more precise than that would be? | 19:17 |
| kanzure | nmz787: i don't know what you just asked | 19:17 |
| fenn | charlieschwabach: why would it be more precise? extrusion is extrusion | 19:18 |
| nmz787 | kanzure: i just typed your name, how do i make that faster? | 19:18 |
| fenn | k<tab> | 19:18 |
| charlieschwabach | yeah but if you just put a rod in the groove of an extrusion, it's still extrusion | 19:18 |
| nmz787 | fenn: i'm in pidgin | 19:19 |
| kanzure | should still work in pidgin | 19:19 |
| nmz787 | ooo | 19:19 |
| nmz787 | then just copy-paste? | 19:19 |
| kanzure | er you should be able to type k<tab> and get the name each time | 19:19 |
| fenn | no need to copy paste, tab completion should work | 19:19 |
| kanzure | maybe tab completion doesn't work in pidgin? | 19:20 |
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| nmz787 | ahh | 19:20 |
| nmz787 | got it | 19:20 |
| nmz787 | thx | 19:20 |
| kanzure | fenn: how about piratepad | 19:20 |
| nmz787 | it was showing the list of ppl with k as first letter in msg window | 19:20 |
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| nmz787 | is that any better than google? | 19:21 |
| fenn | i've had this whole argument many times with alex graveley (of hackpad.com) | 19:21 |
| nmz787 | we're at the mercy of their servers existing | 19:21 |
| nmz787 | either way | 19:21 |
| nmz787 | http://piratepad.net/Ji4MXCLtUX | 19:22 |
| kanzure | nmz787: we'll just add it to the git repo anyway ;) | 19:22 |
| kanzure | but for real-time collab i think piratepad is ok | 19:22 |
| kanzure | delinquentme: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/ezproxy.py | 19:23 |
| kanzure | delinquentme: plz check the Paper model in particular.. it's not finished | 19:23 |
| kanzure | delinquentme: also, i haven't written the scraper infrastructure part yet | 19:23 |
| delinquentme | ~ 1 hr | 19:23 |
| kanzure | yeah yeah sorry. | 19:24 |
| kanzure | took me 2... eat me | 19:24 |
| delinquentme | nahaha haha | 19:25 |
| delinquentme | i mean im messing w threads | 19:25 |
| delinquentme | so im gonna be like 1 hr | 19:25 |
| fenn | is there some way to get a diff between revisions of piratepad? | 19:25 |
| fenn | otherwise merging is going to be a pain | 19:26 |
| fenn | also why can't these online collaboration tools just use version control, wtf seriously wtf | 19:26 |
| kanzure | what? i thought that's what piratepad did.. they do per-keystroke versioning? | 19:26 |
| fenn | yes, but no way to export the version control anyway | 19:26 |
| kanzure | at least you can dump the final diff | 19:27 |
| fenn | i can save two text files and diff them, if that's what you mean | 19:27 |
| nmz787 | why save the diff? | 19:28 |
| nmz787 | if you just had a mediawiki installation..... | 19:28 |
| nmz787 | ....... | 19:28 |
| kanzure | do you want mediawiki? | 19:29 |
| fenn | mediawiki only works for editing simple text and pictures | 19:29 |
| kanzure | fenn: hush | 19:29 |
| fenn | what can i say, i'm a command line zealot | 19:29 |
| nmz787 | right | 19:30 |
| nmz787 | we're doing a shopping list | 19:30 |
| nmz787 | mediawiki would be preferred i think | 19:31 |
| nmz787 | (by me) | 19:31 |
| kanzure | actually, google docs (spreadsheets) would be better? | 19:31 |
| kanzure | a shopping list is just a table | 19:31 |
| fenn | i'm designing this in my head and making notes | 19:31 |
| fenn | ideally we'd have a cad program that didnt suck | 19:31 |
| fenn | and each part would have a procurement url attached to it | 19:31 |
| kanzure | hey that's not fair- keeping it in your head | 19:31 |
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| kanzure | so what's missing? | 19:33 |
| fenn | what what? | 19:33 |
| kanzure | from http://piratepad.net/Ji4MXCLtUX | 19:34 |
| nmz787 | fenn: why 6 trucks? | 19:35 |
| nmz787 | wouldn't we need 4 per axis? | 19:35 |
| fenn | kinematic design | 19:38 |
| fenn | 4 would overconstrain | 19:38 |
| nmz787 | ? | 19:39 |
| fenn | i should note that in the design section | 19:39 |
| nmz787 | so it will be 2 on one rail, 1 on the other | 19:39 |
| fenn | right | 19:39 |
| nmz787 | it won't tip weirdly? | 19:40 |
| nmz787 | like how trike ATVs are bad at turns? | 19:40 |
| fenn | it will be better supported on one side | 19:40 |
| nmz787 | so by overconstrained you mean if the rods werent parallel perfectly, shit would cramp up and not move? | 19:41 |
| delinquentme | kanzure, can you run this: https://gist.github.com/2324632 | 19:41 |
| delinquentme | do you get a no method error? and what version of ruby are you on | 19:42 |
| kanzure | delinquentme: is this going to fork bomb me | 19:42 |
| delinquentme | i like the way it sounds | 19:42 |
| delinquentme | but i dont think so | 19:42 |
| kanzure | haha that is not confidence inspiring.. | 19:42 |
| kanzure | ok one sec | 19:42 |
| delinquentme | true. but its 3 threads @ most :D | 19:42 |
| kanzure | yep it runs | 19:43 |
| nmz787 | fenn: why do you say the screw will turn at 1krpm? | 19:43 |
| fenn | because that's the top speed of a garden variety stepper motor | 19:43 |
| delinquentme | undefined method `keys' for nil:NilClass (NoMethodError) | 19:43 |
| nmz787 | that doesn't mean we'll ever cut that fast | 19:43 |
| delinquentme | what version of ruby ? | 19:43 |
| fenn | that's only 10mm/s | 19:44 |
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| kanzure | fenn: would you be ok with hauling stuff from halcyon | 19:45 |
| fenn | i have no way to haul stuff | 19:45 |
| kanzure | yeah we'll rent something | 19:45 |
| fenn | i can ask my friend rob maybe, he lives in redwood city and has a car | 19:45 |
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| delinquentme | what you guys picking up? | 19:45 |
| nmz787 | homedepot rents trucks for $20 | 19:46 |
| kanzure | no a car is going to be insufficient | 19:46 |
| kanzure | i'm trying to get an inventory list from them but no luck | 19:46 |
| kanzure | they have a machine shop, biology lab, and a few chemistry labs | 19:46 |
| fenn | where you going to put all that? | 19:46 |
| nmz787 | bring it to rochester | 19:47 |
| nmz787 | hah | 19:47 |
| nmz787 | kanzure: it similar in pricing as detroit | 19:47 |
| kanzure | fenn: i'm just thinking for now. i don't know what i want from them. | 19:47 |
| Stee| | kanzure, what are you doing? | 19:50 |
| kanzure | Stee|: CODE | 19:51 |
| Stee| | the halcyon thing | 19:51 |
| kanzure | Stee|: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/ezproxy.py | 19:51 |
| kanzure | Stee|: halcyon molecular is liquidating | 19:51 |
| kanzure | sooo... buy everything | 19:51 |
| Stee| | how much are they selling everything to you for? | 19:51 |
| kanzure | i don't even know what exactly they still have | 19:52 |
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| kanzure | fenn: nmz787: what's missing? | 19:59 |
| kanzure | it would be nice to also specify the electronics | 19:59 |
| nmz787 | fenn, kanzure: i vote propeller for the brains | 20:01 |
| kanzure | and the steppers? | 20:02 |
| kanzure | oh also please don't forget indicator LEDs or something | 20:02 |
| kanzure | and the actual laser | 20:03 |
| nmz787 | i'll have to look into the spectrum of acryclic | 20:04 |
| kanzure | we def. want acrylic? | 20:04 |
| nmz787 | but i think i remember that we should use CO2 | 20:04 |
| Stee| | yo, if they have any high precision stages grab those...I can tell you how to build an electrohydrodynamic jet printer | 20:04 |
| nmz787 | as the substrate to cut into under the PDMS | 20:04 |
| kanzure | it would be nice to cut at least pdms, acrylic, glass | 20:04 |
| kanzure | fume exhaust/blowing hookup? | 20:06 |
| nmz787 | can we just put a metal trashcan around the whole thing, with a big ass squirrel cage fan? | 20:08 |
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| ParahSailin_ | heh halcyon | 20:45 |
| kanzure | delinquentme: ok.. updated | 20:51 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/ezproxy.py | 20:51 |
| delinquentme | coool | 20:52 |
| kanzure | sciencedirect stuff is sorta working (not really: download_csv should check hashes or something) | 20:52 |
| kanzure | it only scrapes for journal titles and urls, it doesn't gather info about which journal volumes exist | 20:52 |
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| kanzure | delinquentme: read the code.. let me know what you think | 20:59 |
| delinquentme | thats alot of code | 21:02 |
| delinquentme | whats newest? | 21:02 |
| delinquentme | all these many to many .. is this how you run the setup on mongo? | 21:03 |
| delinquentme | kanzure, ^ | 21:04 |
| nmz787 | kanzure: https://secure.diyhpl.us/write/diyhpluswiki/ikiwiki.cgi?page=projects/laser_etcher&do=edit doesnt say i'm authorized | 21:07 |
| nmz787 | using my ssh creds | 21:07 |
| katsmeow-afk | fenn, what's a "ball bearing ball joint" called? it's like a heim joint, but the ball is supported with ball bearings, like a conveyor ball | 21:09 |
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| kanzure | nmz787: just use the piratepad thing | 21:14 |
| kanzure | joshcryer: yo | 21:14 |
| kanzure | nmz787: i'll add your account to diyhpluswiki.. but you won't be able to edit that page anyway (ikiwiki is broken) | 21:14 |
| diginet | ParahSailin_, are you around? | 21:15 |
| ParahSailin_ | yes | 21:15 |
| kanzure | delinquentme: decided not to use mongo. by default that uses sqlite. | 21:16 |
| diginet | so, I was just curious, are those sf9/sf21 cells difficult to culture? | 21:16 |
| joshcryer | sup kanzure | 21:16 |
| joshcryer | did we discuss google's ar glasses? | 21:16 |
| joshcryer | ahh, 11:51 april 4th... barely mentioned | 21:18 |
| delinquentme | kanzure, i like example comments | 21:19 |
| yashgaroth | diginet, you'll need a tissue culture hood I'd imagine | 21:19 |
| delinquentme | i like pythons method comments best | 21:20 |
| diginet | yashgaroth, to avoid contamination? | 21:20 |
| yashgaroth | da | 21:20 |
| ParahSailin_ | id need to work in the biosafety cabinet with those | 21:21 |
| diginet | so, are they maybe a bad choice for a DIYer? | 21:21 |
| ParahSailin_ | kinda | 21:21 |
| diginet | hmm | 21:21 |
| diginet | maybe I should try algae or somethinhg | 21:22 |
| yashgaroth | anything euks with liquid media tend to need it | 21:22 |
| diginet | *something | 21:22 |
| diginet | is there any health hazard? | 21:22 |
| ParahSailin_ | aseptic technique might be manageable without hood | 21:22 |
| yashgaroth | hazard to you, from insect cells? | 21:22 |
| ParahSailin_ | no | 21:23 |
| diginet | yeah? (I know that's probably a silly question) | 21:23 |
| yashgaroth | naaah | 21:23 |
| diginet | ah okay, Id idn't think so | 21:23 |
| ParahSailin_ | from the baculovirus i wouldnt think so either | 21:23 |
| diginet | apart from the equipment I would need, are they finnicky to work with? | 21:23 |
| ParahSailin_ | never worked with them | 21:23 |
| diginet | ah | 21:23 |
| ParahSailin_ | but theyve gotta be easier than human cells | 21:24 |
| diginet | heh | 21:24 |
| yashgaroth | easier than non-cancer cells maybe | 21:24 |
| diginet | well, I've read in a few papers that insect cell lines worked really rell with spider silk genes | 21:24 |
| diginet | *well | 21:24 |
| yashgaroth | parahsailin are your sf9's adherent or suspension? | 21:25 |
| ParahSailin_ | i dunno the growth habit, id have to find that out from the grad student when i get the cells | 21:27 |
| ParahSailin_ | most of that is just medium and adaptation | 21:27 |
| yashgaroth | true | 21:27 |
| diginet | how does one control, if possible, secretion of the protein? Is there anyway to ensure that it will be or not? | 21:28 |
| ParahSailin_ | is anyone else interested in getting some sf9 cells? | 21:28 |
| yashgaroth | generally a secreted protein will have an n-terminal peptide tag that directs it to secretion before getting cleaved off | 21:29 |
| ParahSailin_ | actually.. its sf21 cells that i can get | 21:29 |
| ParahSailin_ | the spidroin is gonna have a secretion signal peptide on it | 21:29 |
| diginet | ParahSailin_, again, thank you so much for doing this | 21:29 |
| diginet | how do you store them? do I need LN2? | 21:30 |
| ParahSailin_ | insect cells might work in -70 | 21:30 |
| diginet | (if so I could potentially get it, I don't think its too expensive, and I think I know someone with a dewar) | 21:30 |
| ParahSailin_ | if you can find a dewar that would be awesome | 21:30 |
| diginet | but in other words, not a freezer :P | 21:30 |
| nmz787 | are these sf lines immortal, from what creature originally? | 21:32 |
| ParahSailin_ | spodoptera or something | 21:32 |
| ParahSailin_ | from some sort of caterpillar | 21:32 |
| nmz787 | ahh | 21:32 |
| nmz787 | ok | 21:32 |
| yashgaroth | developed from ovaries of the Fall Army worm, Spodoptera frugiperda, a moth species | 21:32 |
| yashgaroth | and I would certainly hope they're immortalized | 21:33 |
| nmz787 | and you guys want to, what, give yourselves tatoos with them or what | 21:33 |
| nmz787 | ? | 21:33 |
| nmz787 | :D | 21:33 |
| yashgaroth | he wants to do recombinant spidersilk protein production | 21:33 |
| diginet | one thing that has frustrated me is that I haven't been able to find any specific data on the composition of the dope | 21:34 |
| yashgaroth | you mean the cell culture media? that shit's hella proprietary | 21:34 |
| diginet | particularly, I've seen no information on how many parts MaSp1 to MaSp2 | 21:35 |
| diginet | no, the silk dope | 21:35 |
| diginet | the culture medium though, ugh, that's going to be my achilles heel, I can theoretically grow the cells indefinitely, but I can't get the growth medium except through a few sources | 21:36 |
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| yashgaroth | honestly they're all pretty similar, but iunno what growth factors insects have | 21:40 |
| yashgaroth | bbl, dinner | 21:42 |
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| nmz787 | just get a goat | 21:46 |
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| nmz787 | this is where i see cross-species deformities becoming technology | 21:46 |
| nmz787 | like take a goat fetus, remove its sensory organs and thinking centers in its brain, remove its legs... and you've got a sterile pump that can eat hay, turning it into culture media | 21:47 |
| nmz787 | flow the blood over a nanopore membrane, will allow nutrients to pass, but immune cells separate | 21:49 |
| diginet | ehh, I wish it were that simple, lol | 21:49 |
| nmz787 | thats what would really help though | 21:50 |
| katsmeow-afk | fetus cannot eat hay | 21:50 |
| nmz787 | if we're talking synbio | 21:50 |
| nmz787 | well no, deform it when its a fetus, then let it finish incubating | 21:50 |
| nmz787 | so PETA can't bitch as much | 21:50 |
| katsmeow-afk | umm, riiiggght | 21:50 |
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| nmz787 | and so we dont feel bad for making it suffer | 21:50 |
| kanzure | nmz787: or.. just grow the immune cells separately on your own | 21:51 |
| nmz787 | if not that, then just rip the genes out of its DNA | 21:51 |
| nmz787 | nah you want to keep them separate, the whole non-self rejection | 21:51 |
| nmz787 | really, no one thinks thats inline with the whole 'biology is technology' meme? | 22:00 |
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| kanzure | nmz787: no, it's in line.. | 22:02 |
| kanzure | but your line about PETA seems superfluous/ridiculous :P | 22:03 |
| kanzure | there is no predicting an organization like that | 22:03 |
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| nmz787 | i guess | 22:10 |
| delinquentme | they've gotten famous by being alarmists | 22:12 |
| delinquentme | basically give them something that they believe the general public will be up in arms about and theyll make you infamous | 22:12 |
| delinquentme | is what id guess their method to be like | 22:12 |
| delinquentme | kanzure, | 22:12 |
| kanzure | what | 22:13 |
| delinquentme | do you want to make this google search threaded and recursive for me | 22:13 |
| kanzure | is this the one where you're searching for publishers | 22:13 |
| delinquentme | just publishers and urls yeah | 22:13 |
| kanzure | why threaded? google will rate limit you very quickly | 22:13 |
| delinquentme | basically its threaded for speed and it recurses if it hits any hiccups | 22:13 |
| delinquentme | in hopes thell email me and tell me to eff off? | 22:14 |
| kanzure | yahoo offers 10k free requests per day on its search api if you get an api key | 22:14 |
| kanzure | no google just makes you type in a captcha, and doesn't do anything else until you do | 22:14 |
| delinquentme | but who wants to use yahoo? | 22:15 |
| kanzure | i bet the results will be the same | 22:15 |
| delinquentme | up to what page | 22:15 |
| kanzure | you only want the publisher's url right? | 22:15 |
| delinquentme | maybe the first 10 links | 22:15 |
| delinquentme | not bad | 22:16 |
| delinquentme | hmmmm | 22:16 |
| delinquentme | I need to find some solid threaded applications | 22:16 |
| kanzure | python twisted | 22:16 |
| delinquentme | just to add it to my resume | 22:16 |
| charlieschwabach | this is really easy to use w/ python | 22:17 |
| charlieschwabach | http://docs.python.org/library/multiprocessing.html | 22:17 |
| delinquentme | i think im gonna stick w the initial recursion | 22:19 |
| delinquentme | figure out more niftyness to use threads on | 22:19 |
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| kanzure | multiprocessing looks neat.. subprocesses have a lot of advantages over threads | 22:20 |
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| delinquentme | kanzure, save that for tomorrow | 22:33 |
| delinquentme | lateR! | 22:33 |
| kanzure | seeya | 22:34 |
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| strangewarp | Currently reading a forum thread on $anonymous_random_website about how science fiction has supposedly become hopelessly dystopian and boring. The responses are all "well yes hm-hm the world is obviously dying, technology's promise has evaporated, so it's no surprise" and I want to strangle everyone | 22:43 |
| folmat_ | anyone in linux | 22:51 |
| folmat_ | try my grid | 22:51 |
| folmat_ | it makes a sound wave | 22:51 |
| folmat_ | you have to listen to it | 22:52 |
| folmat_ | maybe do it on a computer where you can turn it down or | 22:52 |
| folmat_ | just turn down the volume it sets when it loads the wav in the code | 22:52 |
| folmat_ | http://ansistego.sf.net/stim.tgz | 22:52 |
| folmat_ | gcc -O3 -lSDL -lSDL_mixer -ffast-math -funroll-loops -funswitch-loops | 22:52 |
| folmat_ | good luck | 22:52 |
| nmz787 | what is it? | 22:53 |
| folmat_ | evolves a neural genetic grid to sound like a target wav file | 22:53 |
| nmz787 | cant find sdl | 22:53 |
| folmat_ | get sdl hurry | 22:53 |
| -!- mode/##hplusroadmap [+o kanzure] by ChanServ | 22:53 | |
| folmat_ | should come with sdl_mixer | 22:53 |
| nmz787 | apt-get ? | 22:53 |
| folmat_ | ya | 22:53 |
| @kanzure | are you eric | 22:54 |
| folmat_ | no | 22:54 |
| @kanzure | are you flamoot | 22:54 |
| nmz787 | libsdl-sound? | 22:54 |
| folmat_ | i dont think that's necessary it uses one called mixer though | 22:54 |
| folmat_ | no kanzure | 22:54 |
| folmat_ | this is like chinese way saying format | 22:55 |
| nmz787 | hah | 22:55 |
| nmz787 | fly lice? | 22:56 |
| @kanzure | ok look | 22:57 |
| @kanzure | http://sourceforge.net/projects/ansistego/ | 22:57 |
| @kanzure | links to flamoot | 22:57 |
| @kanzure | you're flamoot. | 22:57 |
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| nmz787 | aww | 22:58 |
| ParahSailin_ | what was the virus he was trying to have us run? | 22:59 |
| @kanzure | ParahSailin_: he's a known schizo | 22:59 |
| @kanzure | http://groups.google.com/group/singularity-aliens | 22:59 |
| @kanzure | http://groups.google.com/group/singularity-aliens/browse_thread/thread/9b0583d2e5fb77c2# | 23:00 |
| nmz787 | its a c file and some wavs | 23:01 |
| ParahSailin_ | wow that guy is a trip | 23:01 |
| nmz787 | looks benign to me, though i just quickly scanned through 3000 lines | 23:01 |
| nmz787 | so i could have missed the rm -rf line | 23:01 |
| @kanzure | he is the single cause for why saying "flamoot" on 4chan gets you auto permabanned by the filters | 23:02 |
| @kanzure | which is pretty impressive considering 4chan allows a lot of shit | 23:02 |
| ParahSailin_ | wow | 23:02 |
| nmz787 | lol | 23:11 |
| sylph_mako | Wait so there's a way to get yourself permabanned? | 23:13 |
| sylph_mako | A lot of 4channers would love to know about this. | 23:13 |
| @kanzure | http://flamoot.blogspot.com/2012/02/flamoot-only-banned-word-on-4chan.html | 23:15 |
| @kanzure | oh man those posts are precious | 23:15 |
| @kanzure | "Summoning UFOs with Psilocybin and Terence McKenna" | 23:15 |
| sylph_mako | I can use this to troll the shit out of people. | 23:17 |
| yashgaroth | do you have a reference on that outside of his blog? he's not exactly the best source | 23:18 |
| sylph_mako | I must tell my troll comerades. | 23:18 |
| strangewarp | Damn, this guy is starting to compete with CarTellingWindows and TimeCube | 23:18 |
| sylph_mako | Yeah I just googled it. | 23:18 |
| sylph_mako | People getting permabanned when they ask what this flamoot shit is. | 23:18 |
| yashgaroth | heh | 23:18 |
| nmz787 | he;s got 131k views on youtube | 23:25 |
| nmz787 | this one is pretty cool http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FiTeS3XfXg4&list=UUsQKUex7qt6UUcChadrMU1Q&index=36&feature=plcp | 23:28 |
| @kanzure | Revista de Psiquiatr�a y Salud Mental (English Edition) (21735050) | 23:28 |
| @kanzure | how is that supposed to be parsed | 23:29 |
| @kanzure | ah.. "Psiquiatría" | 23:37 |
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| joshcryer | that blog is what I don't even | 23:46 |
| joshcryer | "I do believe reality is VR. If space were a real mesh and not a voxel landscape, I think movement would be cheaper." | 23:46 |
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| --- Log closed Sat Apr 07 00:00:24 2012 | ||
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