| --- Log opened Sun Apr 22 00:00:46 2012 | ||
| diginet | the fleshlight forums | 00:01 |
|---|---|---|
| diginet | prepare to laugh, and cry | 00:01 |
| joshcryer | Oh god. | 00:03 |
| joshcryer | Yes, yes, indeed. | 00:03 |
| diginet | I particularly love the thread polling how many of them the members owned | 00:05 |
| diginet | only there would owning more be viewed as an accomplisment | 00:06 |
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| diginet | http://youtu.be/XP5lz2CYNR4 dear god why | 00:54 |
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| diginet | I had forgotten about that atrocity | 00:54 |
| diginet | GARUGAMESH | 00:54 |
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| ParahSailin | _F7_, hey | 08:39 |
| ParahSailin | did that laser cutter for metal have any sort of ventilation? | 08:39 |
| ParahSailin | i didnt think of that at the time | 08:40 |
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| delinquentme | jmil, Y U LOOK FAMIRIAR | 09:33 |
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| jmil | whut? | 09:34 |
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| _F7_ | Oh, the plasma cutter? | 09:44 |
| _F7_ | It's got forced air from the nozzle, but it's not really ventilated | 09:45 |
| _F7_ | why? | 09:45 |
| ParahSailin | i would want to avoid breathing whatever metal fumes come off of vaporizing metal | 09:46 |
| _F7_ | it's slag, it gets blasted downward | 09:46 |
| _F7_ | just fat oxides and molten metal | 09:46 |
| ParahSailin | ah, so negligible fumes? | 09:46 |
| _F7_ | very | 09:46 |
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| kanzure | hi nmz787 | 09:53 |
| kanzure | roksprok: can i see the protocol site progress sometime? either code or the site itself.. | 09:55 |
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| kanzure | scripted favicons :/ http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3873623 | 10:05 |
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| nmz787 | yo kanzure | 10:14 |
| delinquentme | so what happens with open source projects in which *only* old versions are open sourced | 10:14 |
| delinquentme | im trying to model this .. like the dev on the old machines would increase for sure | 10:14 |
| delinquentme | also I was thinking about a model around getting suppliers to pay in for me to adapt one of their OEM parts to the machine | 10:15 |
| delinquentme | both those options contribute to development and also allow for obvious fundability? | 10:16 |
| delinquentme | fundabilteh * | 10:16 |
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| delinquentme | nmz787, whats on the plate?? | 10:42 |
| delinquentme | you guys find the lens you needed ? | 10:42 |
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| nmz787 | havent checked the forum pots | 11:05 |
| nmz787 | post | 11:05 |
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| nmz787 | kanzure: ever hear re chandni? | 11:15 |
| kanzure | not yet | 11:16 |
| kanzure | well, yes, but nothing worth reporting | 11:17 |
| klafka1 | dammit | 11:23 |
| klafka1 | i was supposed togo to legal observers training today | 11:24 |
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| klafka1 | hey kanzure http://groups.google.com/group/julia-dev/browse_thread/thread/61fb4e3847dcc2b9?pli=1 | 11:48 |
| klafka1 | any thoughts on julia the language? | 11:48 |
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| kanzure | klafka1: are you looking at it because it has JIT? | 11:54 |
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| Cat4D | i need a dvi/hdmi/wqxga mems gate for beam steering using vid card, prefer both pixel and analogue with 3+ channels gated ... anyone know of any devices? (typical 1-3w each laser channel) | 12:41 |
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| klafka1 | kanzure lookign at it because it's fast | 15:22 |
| klafka1 | i guess | 15:22 |
| klafka1 | and decent | 15:22 |
| kanzure | fast for what? just in general? | 15:22 |
| klafka1 | yeah | 15:23 |
| klafka1 | compared to say python/ruby/et al | 15:23 |
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| klafka1 | like the language is farly ruby/pythonic but like fast | 15:23 |
| kanzure | do you need the extra speed? is pypi/cython/cpython not working out? | 15:24 |
| klafka1 | i don't currently | 15:24 |
| klafka1 | but i mean i have in the past and i will in the future | 15:25 |
| klafka1 | the lead of cython in that google groups post is advocating for julia over cython | 15:25 |
| klafka1 | in fact | 15:25 |
| klafka1 | well not over but as an excellent complement | 15:25 |
| klafka1 | like for instance i know right now we are using all ruby but ruby is fucking slow so if i do stuff like build a recommendation engine i'm going to need to do that in another language | 15:26 |
| kanzure | depends on how you are doing it | 15:27 |
| kanzure | if you put all your recommendation code in each page request, yes, that's going to be slow no matter what you do | 15:27 |
| kanzure | if you pre-compute your recommendations you can just pull those up on each page load | 15:27 |
| kanzure | your recommendations shouldn't be recomputed on each page load, in general | 15:27 |
| klafka1 | kanzure well it depends what sort of algorithm i'm doing | 15:27 |
| klafka1 | i would never do that | 15:27 |
| klafka1 | but even pre-computing is potentially expensive | 15:28 |
| kanzure | ok just checking | 15:28 |
| klafka1 | for instance if i do matrix completion via gradient descent | 15:28 |
| kanzure | if you are pre-computing them, 0.1 sec vs. 0.2 sec is only somewhat important | 15:28 |
| klafka1 | vs. say a jacquard similarity matrix | 15:28 |
| kanzure | (on a page load, 1sec vs. 3sec is hugely important) | 15:28 |
| klafka1 | um but 2-3hrs vs. 30 minutes | 15:28 |
| klafka1 | is important | 15:28 |
| kanzure | 2-3 hours for all users? | 15:28 |
| klafka1 | yeah | 15:28 |
| kanzure | wait, i mean | 15:28 |
| klafka1 | i mean i have no idea how long it will take to compute | 15:29 |
| kanzure | 2-3 hours per user? | 15:29 |
| klafka1 | i was thinking total | 15:29 |
| kanzure | btw: you can come up with a rough approximation of how long it would take | 15:29 |
| klafka1 | but im ean for comparison some of my research, each run to convergence took 7hrs | 15:29 |
| klafka1 | kanzure i can't because i don't know what algorithm i'd use | 15:29 |
| klafka1 | heh | 15:29 |
| kanzure | i'm really confused | 15:29 |
| kanzure | how do you know it took 7 hours in that case? | 15:29 |
| klafka1 | well i didn't finish! geez hold on, so in comparison in some of my research a run to convergence took 7hrs after i added a bunch of C. it would take 30-40 hrs without the C | 15:30 |
| klafka1 | my point is it's in situations like this where using a faster language is important | 15:30 |
| kanzure | i am really skeptical of this. what is your algorithm doing that took it 40 hours? | 15:31 |
| klafka1 | ? learning a 100^2 variable factor graph from data | 15:31 |
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| kanzure | "learning" a graph? | 15:32 |
| kanzure | and i'm not clear on what the structure of your graph actually is | 15:32 |
| klafka1 | i was using stochastic gradient descent wherein I had to estimate the partition function and the gradient using MCMC | 15:33 |
| klafka1 | learning a graphical model? | 15:33 |
| klafka1 | a factor graph is a generalization of a Markov random field wherein each node has a clique of one | 15:33 |
| klafka1 | the structure of the graph represents the conditional probability distribution of the variables | 15:34 |
| klafka1 | anyway my point about that was, there are distinct cases when you are doing ML where the speed of the language matters. In my job of building a recommendation engine, I don't know that this will be an issue, but I foresee it may be one, hence my interest in a fast yet syntactically non sucky language. | 15:35 |
| klafka1 | algorithms taking 10-100+ hrs are fairly common in computational statistics also kanzure | 15:36 |
| kanzure | directededge.com built their own graph database to get their recommendation engine fast enough | 15:36 |
| kanzure | 10-100 hours in recommendation engines is not OK in web apps | 15:36 |
| kanzure | brownies: any thoughts? | 15:36 |
| klafka1 | why? | 15:36 |
| klafka1 | i'm really really skeptical of graph based recommendation engines btw | 15:36 |
| klafka1 | I'm also skeptical as to the point of a graph database unless you're doing lots of traversals | 15:37 |
| kanzure | you just said you're using a graph of your own | 15:37 |
| brownies | o.O | 15:37 |
| brownies | reading | 15:37 |
| klafka1 | a graph is a totally different thing from a graphical model | 15:37 |
| klafka1 | and I stated that was something I was doing in my research | 15:37 |
| brownies | sounds like some fun research | 15:39 |
| klafka1 | it was | 15:39 |
| brownies | anyway it's fairly obvious the approach they're taking and they are doing tons of traversals so it's cool | 15:39 |
| brownies | if you want to go the more "normal" route of piling matrices onto each other then you could do C or Haskell i suppose | 15:39 |
| brownies | hehe, accidental math pun. anyway. | 15:39 |
| klafka1 | well the actual part of it that was 'research' was building a system of sample based regularization techniques based on a priori knowledge to bias the model | 15:39 |
| klafka1 | heh | 15:39 |
| brownies | i think you are going to want something higher level than C | 15:40 |
| kanzure | klafka1: maybe i am misunderstanding. is it 10-100 hours per recommendation? | 15:40 |
| brownies | *per* recommendation? -_- no | 15:41 |
| klafka1 | well 10-100 hrs to learn to convergence | 15:41 |
| klafka1 | so that'd be for _all_ recommendations | 15:41 |
| kanzure | well ok. a 100 hour algorithm that you run once or twice a year.. that sounds ok | 15:41 |
| klafka1 | a 100 hr algorithm isn't really ok either | 15:41 |
| brownies | naw, i believe in his approach he'd have to update and re-run things as new data came in | 15:41 |
| klafka1 | yeah | 15:41 |
| klafka1 | unless i did something online | 15:41 |
| brownies | there's something to be said for the pagerank-esque approch man | 15:41 |
| brownies | because you just update one edge and let it hang out | 15:42 |
| brownies | next time the edge is needed, stuff will be computed on the fly as always and it'll all Just Work(tm) | 15:42 |
| klafka1 | idk i've really only dug a little into IR stuff | 15:42 |
| brownies | IR? | 15:42 |
| klafka1 | information retrieval | 15:42 |
| brownies | oh | 15:42 |
| klafka1 | i mean recommendation engines / collaborative filtering are a subset of IR iirc | 15:42 |
| brownies | i strongly doubt you'll need to optimize things on that front | 15:42 |
| klafka1 | yeah | 15:42 |
| brownies | just throw it all into an existing SQL database with a sane schema | 15:43 |
| brownies | that should last you a good long while. | 15:43 |
| klafka1 | i'm going to start with just a jacquard similarity matrix | 15:43 |
| klafka1 | which has the advantage of being retardedly fast and I can update online | 15:43 |
| brownies | boring, but fine. | 15:44 |
| klafka1 | yep | 15:44 |
| brownies | incidetnally, i need to build a recommendation engine soon too. | 15:44 |
| brownies | let me know how it goes! | 15:44 |
| klafka1 | well a couple things i've been learning is that for recommendation engines since all models suck pretty bad, it is often better to focus on variable selection, as well as non-algorithm stuff like placement and presentation | 15:44 |
| klafka1 | because I have basically pieces of content, as well as how people interact with that content | 15:45 |
| klafka1 | so for instance i have 'bob's blog article 1' and a person may have 'visited/read' the article they may have 'liked' the article they may hvae 'shared' they may have 'commented' etc... | 15:45 |
| ParahSailin | what are you guys talking about | 15:46 |
| klafka1 | recommendation engines | 15:46 |
| kanzure | recommendation engines, algorithms, web apps | 15:46 |
| klafka1 | it's kind of sad though, i'd like to have problems that let me do devilishly cool algorithms | 15:46 |
| klafka1 | i'm really itching to implement ensemble MCMC methods | 15:47 |
| klafka1 | i really really really want to | 15:47 |
| klafka1 | argh i think i drank too much caffeine to the point where i'm having a hard time writing boring stuff | 15:48 |
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| delinquentme | klafka1, you should check out the recommendation engine they're working on for reddit | 16:06 |
| delinquentme | last I heard they were in the process of defining the solution space | 16:06 |
| delinquentme | looking @ a number of diff algos | 16:06 |
| kanzure | ugh reddit again | 16:06 |
| strangewarp | goddamnit reddit | 16:07 |
| strangewarp | needs fewer upvote-based economies; more overlapping social-vetting economies. also link them to physical goods maybe eventually if the governments are ok with it [puppy dog eyes] | 16:09 |
| klafka1 | what is an 'overlapping social vetting' economy? | 16:11 |
| klafka1 | and how is that different from an 'upvote based economy' | 16:11 |
| klafka1 | isn't one a subset of the other | 16:11 |
| klafka1 | also delinquentme link plz | 16:12 |
| strangewarp | Basically I'd like to see whether many multiple overlapping reputation economies, bundled up by aggregators, could be more successful than single reputation economies, which end up biased if they have a monopoly on the service | 16:15 |
| strangewarp | And I think such a system could be extended to verify that people are experts in given skills, and whatnot | 16:16 |
| klafka1 | so are you looking at determining the importance of content explicitly based on the known knowledge of people in the system and their actions within the system? | 16:16 |
| klafka1 | e.g. a new bio paper comes out it coudl be tagged as interesting or good or what have you because a lot of known biology experts are commenting on it ? | 16:17 |
| delinquentme | klafka1, http://groups.google.com/group/rrecommender | 16:28 |
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| klafka1 | ah | 16:32 |
| klafka1 | this thread is hilarious http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3875855 | 16:39 |
| strangewarp | sorry, was reading something there; I forgot that I'd been saying anything in IRC | 16:40 |
| strangewarp | klafka1: I imagine there would be feedback between concrete skill-verification, and the weight given to a person's evaluations of the worth of people and objects explicitly linked to their areas of expertise | 16:41 |
| n_bentha | klafka1: those guys are strange | 16:42 |
| klafka1 | so you are still working on the premise of a voting economy but votes non-uniformly distributed based on a priori knowledge of their skill sets | 16:42 |
| n_bentha | ceo's are supposed to earn a bit more than the rest of the people | 16:42 |
| strangewarp | Tempered, of course, by systems to ensure that people with opposing political/religious opinions can't explicitly gang up on one another, except when the issue is concrete and testable.. | 16:43 |
| klafka1 | I kind of agree with the guy who said startup CEOs should make about as much as the most senior engineers | 16:43 |
| kanzure | n_bentha: or more realistically, you want to pay market rate for someone to achieve market results | 16:43 |
| strangewarp | klafka1: I suppose I'm saying for all the veneration of Reddit, there's still a long way to go | 16:43 |
| klafka1 | strangewarp agreed | 16:43 |
| kanzure | no reddit veneration allowed in here | 16:43 |
| kanzure | shoo | 16:43 |
| klafka1 | I've thought about this a lot too with regards to verifying expert skills | 16:44 |
| klafka1 | it's hard | 16:44 |
| strangewarp | yeah :\ | 16:44 |
| n_bentha | then why is the president paid more than senators? | 16:44 |
| strangewarp | I'm only a casual, so far as thinking about most things, but it's good to get some external validation on the issue | 16:44 |
| n_bentha | but yea, a 5x difference in pay rate is a little much. | 16:45 |
| klafka1 | the whole point is to not pay a startup CEO a ton of money because you want them to have most of their investment be in stock | 16:45 |
| kanzure | not really | 16:45 |
| kanzure | some startup founders are being paid a substantial payout in series fundraising | 16:46 |
| kanzure | so that they can focus on the startup | 16:46 |
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| kanzure | instead of e.g. waiting four years to get their "millions" out | 16:46 |
| klafka1 | I've also heard that called a fairly classic warning sign in a startup | 16:46 |
| kanzure | klafka1: if you're an investor, you want a $100 million exit not a $10 million exit | 16:47 |
| kanzure | to a founder making $50k/year, a $10 million exit is fantastic | 16:47 |
| kanzure | an investor needs to incentive the founder to the point that a $10 million exit is not appealing | 16:47 |
| klafka1 | mmmm | 16:48 |
| klafka1 | interesting | 16:48 |
| klafka1 | it sounds like in general then that what to pay a CEO depends on a number of factors, however, I think it can be a fairly large warning sign when one is payed a very large salary particularly in an early stage startup | 16:52 |
| delinquentme | corn based filament for repraps | 16:52 |
| klafka1 | what is fizz buzz? | 16:56 |
| klafka1 | um ok i just found it | 16:56 |
| klafka1 | wow really people fail this that call themselves coders? | 16:56 |
| klafka1 | i won't even call myeslf a developer but that is instantly easy | 16:57 |
| diginet | I think we need more. . .developers developers developers developers | 16:57 |
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| kanzure | hi Jora | 17:11 |
| Jora | hi kanzure | 17:11 |
| Jora | this channel active a lot or no? | 17:11 |
| kanzure | yep pretty active | 17:11 |
| Jora | cool | 17:12 |
| kanzure | why? | 17:12 |
| Jora | the neuroscience room is pretty dead usually and i wanted to find somewhere that discussed transhumanism a bit that was more active | 17:12 |
| Jora | ive never been in here before | 17:13 |
| kanzure | ah alright | 17:13 |
| kanzure | yes we have some neuroscience people | 17:14 |
| klafka1 | oh that reminds me | 17:14 |
| klafka1 | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4KrhDZQ088 | 17:15 |
| klafka1 | Connectomics: Sebastian Seung vs. Tony Movshon, Columbia 2012 | 17:15 |
| kanzure | we had someone in here claiming to be a friend of sebastien's | 17:15 |
| kanzure | about a week ago | 17:16 |
| Jora | thanks | 17:16 |
| kanzure | *sebastian's | 17:16 |
| Jora | lol , maybe true maybe not | 17:16 |
| n_bentha | thx 4 da link | 17:17 |
| klafka1 | interesting | 17:18 |
| klafka1 | he's pretty cool | 17:19 |
| klafka1 | or the stuff he's doing is | 17:19 |
| klafka1 | i don't know anything about the person | 17:19 |
| Jora | the best lay | 17:19 |
| Jora | are you all mainly biologists | 17:26 |
| kanzure | mix of biologists, coders, machinists | 17:27 |
| n_bentha | <3 machinists <3 | 17:27 |
| delinquentme | Jora, you're in the right place :D | 17:30 |
| delinquentme | lots of discussion on tons of cool projects | 17:30 |
| delinquentme | the join message covers it pretty well =] | 17:30 |
| Jora | yes looks like it :) | 17:30 |
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| Jora | i added this to my favorites & im watching the video that was posted earlier | 17:30 |
| kanzure | Jora: are you a biologist? | 17:38 |
| * delinquentme prays for electrical engineer | 17:39 | |
| Jora | no im a information systems student with degree in psychology | 17:39 |
| delinquentme | nice! | 17:39 |
| delinquentme | <3 me some shrinkery | 17:39 |
| delinquentme | Jora, list you cognitive biases | 17:39 |
| delinquentme | jk jk | 17:39 |
| Jora | lol | 17:39 |
| Jora | are you an EE? | 17:40 |
| delinquentme | ha! | 17:40 |
| delinquentme | wellll | 17:40 |
| Jora | student? | 17:40 |
| delinquentme | im a learning EE | 17:40 |
| delinquentme | business marketer on paper web programmer by day and aspiring biohacker | 17:41 |
| delinquentme | like the rest of the wild-eyed optimists in here :D | 17:41 |
| delinquentme | Jora, you into carbon copies? | 17:41 |
| kanzure | delinquentme: i don't think it's fair to say the others in here match your description | 17:42 |
| delinquentme | i meant the biohacker part :D | 17:42 |
| kanzure | some of the users here are "accomplished biohackers, actual web programmers" | 17:42 |
| delinquentme | kinda | 17:42 |
| delinquentme | to an extent | 17:42 |
| Jora | not familiar with the lingo of carbon copy unless you're talking about email | 17:42 |
| delinquentme | Jora, its a project to copy brains :D | 17:42 |
| Jora | i just have had a couple programming courses, im not a web programmer yet | 17:42 |
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| Jora | delinquentme sounds cool | 17:43 |
| delinquentme | yeah im not sure if that was a cut @ me | 17:43 |
| kanzure | hi Lucas_ | 17:43 |
| Lucas_ | hi | 17:43 |
| kanzure | delinquentme: wasn't. like i said, what you said wasn't fair | 17:43 |
| Lucas_ | that was frighteningly fast | 17:43 |
| klafka1 | biologists / coders / statisticians or some mix thereof | 17:44 |
| Jora | id like to do a masters in comp sci and then get some bio classes and go to grad school for computational neuroscience with some emphasis on neural engineering in the distant future | 17:44 |
| klafka1 | i discourage people from comp neuroscience | 17:44 |
| klafka1 | heh | 17:44 |
| kanzure | whaat klafka1 why | 17:44 |
| Jora | but i want to finish this info systems degree and work and get my maths | 17:44 |
| klafka1 | they are the string theorists of the neuroscience wordl | 17:44 |
| kanzure | hardly | 17:44 |
| kanzure | many of them have simulations based on physiological data | 17:45 |
| klafka1 | well i suppose it depends what you mean by 'comp neuroscience'. | 17:45 |
| klafka1 | link? | 17:45 |
| klafka1 | and what sort of physiological data | 17:45 |
| Jora | id want to collect physiological data and make programs and interfaces to link people to computers | 17:45 |
| klafka1 | how do they verify the 'wiring and firing' of their models? | 17:45 |
| kanzure | the type extracted by neurophysiologists :P | 17:45 |
| kanzure | klafka1: by scanning tissues | 17:45 |
| kanzure | klafka1: like http://3scan.com/ | 17:45 |
| klafka1 | link? | 17:45 |
| klafka1 | :P | 17:45 |
| kanzure | wiring is a huge part of the task, yes, but also the set of ion channels and receptors | 17:46 |
| klafka1 | most comp neurosci people i've seen build neural nets or 'neural nets' to model stuff and verify it only at a very high level | 17:46 |
| kanzure | no that's your "AI" people or "machine learning" peeps | 17:46 |
| klafka1 | no that's not at all | 17:46 |
| klafka1 | well maybe AI people | 17:47 |
| klafka1 | but not ML people | 17:47 |
| kanzure | ok, it's unfair of me to place ML people there | 17:47 |
| klafka1 | heh | 17:47 |
| kanzure | however! ANNs are very popular in ML | 17:47 |
| Jora | does machine learning/ai have a place in neuroscience/neuro engineering stuff? | 17:47 |
| klafka1 | um so yes | 17:47 |
| kanzure | yes, but not in the way that klafka is talking about | 17:47 |
| klafka1 | yeah | 17:47 |
| klafka1 | for instance | 17:47 |
| klafka1 | connectomics is a great example | 17:47 |
| klafka1 | connectomics is basically a huge computer vision/image problem | 17:47 |
| kanzure | klafka1: this doesn't feel like ANN-style research to me.. http://www.neuron.yale.edu/neuron/ | 17:48 |
| kanzure | "NEURON: for empirically-based simulations of neurons and networks of neurons" | 17:48 |
| delinquentme | klafka1, 3scan (theil backed) is working on it >> http://www.3scan.com/ | 17:48 |
| klafka1 | 3scan seems very interesting | 17:49 |
| Lucas_ | kanzure: How do you know people at WFPF? (world federation parkour and freerunning ) | 17:55 |
| kanzure | oh fooey.. let me think | 17:56 |
| delinquentme | klafka1, there were a number of cool startups who got funded: http://www.kurzweilai.net/breakout-labs-announces-first-grants-to-support-radical-scientific-innovation | 17:56 |
| kanzure | i know someone there; just trying to think of the right person | 17:56 |
| klafka1 | ah delinquentme | 17:56 |
| klafka1 | excellent | 17:56 |
| kanzure | ziyadb: was it you? | 17:56 |
| delinquentme | klafka1, keep working on that | 17:56 |
| delinquentme | youll need the evil in that "excellent" | 17:56 |
| kanzure | it might be zacharycohn | 17:56 |
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| kanzure | Lucas_: as an aspiring superhero, parkour is important | 17:57 |
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| Lucas_ | kanzure: wow, how don't you know? lol. I know a few guys over there and have had the pleasure to train with them | 17:57 |
| kanzure | it's someone i know for other reasons | 17:58 |
| Jora | how old is everyone here? | 18:00 |
| Jora | im 28 | 18:00 |
| kanzure | i'm 12 | 18:00 |
| Lucas_ | 20 | 18:00 |
| delinquentme | 27! | 18:00 |
| Jora | lol | 18:00 |
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| Jora | Parkour just seems like an early 20s thing thats why I asked | 18:02 |
| delinquentme | Jora, its for anyone with health insurance | 18:03 |
| Jora | yeah | 18:04 |
| klafka1 | 26 | 18:06 |
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| Jora | new game of thrones tonight :) | 18:09 |
| delinquentme | a rapman 3d printer? | 18:11 |
| delinquentme | at like 3x the cost | 18:11 |
| delinquentme | NICE | 18:11 |
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| yashgaroth | so uh my computer losing power every few hours and then starting right back up, I'm guessing is a PSU issue? | 18:15 |
| delinquentme | yashgaroth, when was the last time you cleaned out the dust | 18:16 |
| delinquentme | sounds like a CPU overheating issue | 18:16 |
| yashgaroth | a long time ago | 18:16 |
| delinquentme | do that. | 18:16 |
| delinquentme | compressed air if you have em | 18:16 |
| delinquentme | better yet ... air compressor to the insides | 18:16 |
| yashgaroth | but doesn't that usually give an error or something, and it wouldn't restart til it cools down? | 18:16 |
| delinquentme | + gas mask | 18:16 |
| delinquentme | well as soon as it kicks out into reboot mode its going to start cooling as the CPU load is much less no? | 18:17 |
| delinquentme | also you computer =[ | 18:17 |
| n_bentha | you don't need compressed air, yashgaroth | 18:17 |
| delinquentme | it probs has a cat growing inside it | 18:17 |
| yashgaroth | idk speedfan says it's not running hot | 18:17 |
| n_bentha | just take it apart, and take out the dust bunnies with your hands and paper towels | 18:17 |
| n_bentha | and reseat the memory | 18:17 |
| delinquentme | pay specific attention to the fuzzies in the CPU heat sink | 18:18 |
| delinquentme | reset the memory? | 18:18 |
| n_bentha | reseating the memory can do wonders--trust me | 18:18 |
| delinquentme | ive never reset memory | 18:18 |
| yashgaroth | ram's seated, and even then shouldn't it throw an error? | 18:18 |
| delinquentme | doesnt that happen when you reboot ? | 18:18 |
| delinquentme | sooo usually you start with simple fixes | 18:18 |
| delinquentme | and then go up the line of severity in treatments | 18:19 |
| delinquentme | cleaning out the tower should be # 1 | 18:19 |
| n_bentha | no. serious shit can happen to ram. even when u think it's seated fine | 18:19 |
| n_bentha | just clean it out and reconnect everything. | 18:19 |
| delinquentme | n_bentha, how do you reset it? | 18:19 |
| delinquentme | oic | 18:19 |
| n_bentha | reseat* | 18:19 |
| yashgaroth | I had a previous problem where it wouldn't start unless I reseated the ram, but this is new | 18:19 |
| n_bentha | disconnect and reconnect :) | 18:19 |
| delinquentme | yeah thats harmless enough | 18:19 |
| delinquentme | just make sure that if your ram sticks are different that they both go back into their corresponding slots | 18:19 |
| n_bentha | a defrag and would be good too :) | 18:20 |
| delinquentme | yashgaroth, windows pc? | 18:21 |
| yashgaroth | well I'll try dusting next time it shuts off, which should be in a few hours | 18:21 |
| yashgaroth | yeah 7 | 18:21 |
| yashgaroth | I know I know, but I like vidya games | 18:21 |
| delinquentme | if you want a super quick fix you could also just remove the side panel | 18:21 |
| delinquentme | for a little extra air flow | 18:21 |
| n_bentha | 0.o | 18:21 |
| yashgaroth | it's actually had the panel off for a while, my replacement cpu fan is too big for it to close :/ | 18:22 |
| n_bentha | how old is the system? | 18:22 |
| delinquentme | your mobo might also have a display out to tell you whats going wrong | 18:22 |
| delinquentme | LOL | 18:22 |
| delinquentme | awesome | 18:22 |
| n_bentha | what r your specs? | 18:22 |
| delinquentme | yashgaroth, you playing d3? | 18:22 |
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| yashgaroth | yup | 18:22 |
| delinquentme | NICE | 18:22 |
| yashgaroth | uhh it's pretty fast, I keep switching out parts | 18:22 |
| yashgaroth | the mobo/case is like 5 years old maybe | 18:23 |
| yashgaroth | friend's sister works at blizzard so I've been in the beta since it opened :D | 18:23 |
| n_bentha | cool | 18:24 |
| delinquentme | yashgaroth, die. | 18:24 |
| delinquentme | die. | 18:24 |
| delinquentme | also shes probs dead | 18:24 |
| delinquentme | lol i heard they work em harder than EA | 18:24 |
| yashgaroth | nah she doesn't do coding | 18:24 |
| delinquentme | oic | 18:24 |
| yashgaroth | I don't think they have them on meth like MS does | 18:25 |
| Jora | lol | 18:25 |
| n_bentha | lololol] | 18:26 |
| yashgaroth | you laugh, but | 18:26 |
| delinquentme | yashgaroth, company insurance plan provides adderall | 18:26 |
| Jora | does MS having them working 80 plus hours per week? | 18:26 |
| klafka1 | MS has them on meth eh? | 18:26 |
| yashgaroth | yes | 18:26 |
| Jora | lol..... | 18:27 |
| yashgaroth | it's fairly well known, at least if you're from seattle I guess | 18:27 |
| Jora | or do the programmers take meth to code at max capacity | 18:27 |
| Jora | LOL! | 18:27 |
| yashgaroth | I think they just hand it out for free and encourage working while tweaking | 18:27 |
| Jora | meth is the dumbest illegal drug to do | 18:27 |
| Jora | I honestly doubt that. | 18:28 |
| yashgaroth | not if it's high quality | 18:28 |
| yashgaroth | I can think of several worse drugs | 18:28 |
| delinquentme | coffee 2.0! | 18:28 |
| n_bentha | adderall is probably what they giv e them | 18:28 |
| Jora | if they have add | 18:28 |
| n_bentha | even if they don't? | 18:30 |
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| n_bentha | oh i'm supposed to get some of that cephalexin stuff next month | 18:30 |
| n_bentha | :) | 18:30 |
| delinquentme | lololol | 18:30 |
| yashgaroth | then I guess every single pre-med has ADD huh | 18:30 |
| n_bentha | wait no | 18:30 |
| n_bentha | shit | 18:30 |
| klafka1 | i'm not convinced amphetamine based stimulants are useful for creative work | 18:30 |
| delinquentme | n_bentha, you've met the hiring criteria | 18:30 |
| delinquentme | klafka1, INTERESTING | 18:30 |
| delinquentme | agreed. | 18:30 |
| yashgaroth | yeah but a lot of coding work isn't creative per se | 18:31 |
| klafka1 | mmm fair enough, that may be why i dislike it generally. | 18:31 |
| n_bentha | provigil* --made by the company cephalon | 18:31 |
| delinquentme | agreed w 80% confidence | 18:31 |
| klafka1 | oh provigil | 18:31 |
| klafka1 | yeah | 18:31 |
| klafka1 | modafinil | 18:31 |
| n_bentha | yeah! | 18:31 |
| yashgaroth | yeah I got some of that, it's pretty nice | 18:31 |
| n_bentha | nuvigil | 18:31 |
| klafka1 | modafinil is incredibly expensive | 18:31 |
| n_bentha | my insurance is 20 dollars co pay | 18:32 |
| n_bentha | so i get whaetver i want for 20 bucks | 18:32 |
| yashgaroth | it's like a dollar a pill from india | 18:32 |
| kanzure | my insurance doesn't cover my adderall | 18:32 |
| kanzure | so i pay out of pocket | 18:32 |
| klafka1 | did your insurance approve your modafinil? | 18:32 |
| n_bentha | i'll just tell my doc to write me a big 90-day scrips for 2x what i need | 18:32 |
| klafka1 | what do you have? | 18:32 |
| n_bentha | yes my insurance does | 18:32 |
| klafka1 | they are very not keen on covering it for grey label uses | 18:32 |
| n_bentha | blue cross blue shield | 18:32 |
| n_bentha | I've got a "legitimate" use for it | 18:32 |
| klafka1 | it's white label uses fyi are narcolepsy | 18:32 |
| yashgaroth | for narcolepsy or do you just have a cool GP? | 18:32 |
| klafka1 | are you narcoleptic? | 18:33 |
| n_bentha | -note the "'s | 18:33 |
| n_bentha | I've got a really awesome GP | 18:33 |
| klafka1 | GP ? | 18:33 |
| yashgaroth | general practitioner | 18:33 |
| yashgaroth | idk what the american term is | 18:33 |
| klafka1 | so you know that even if a dr writes a script for it and even if the insurance covers it they can still reject it for you | 18:33 |
| n_bentha | GP is the american term, yashy | 18:34 |
| klafka1 | i know because i went through this with my GF | 18:34 |
| klafka1 | as she has MS, and provigil is sometimes prescribed grey-label for that but we ran into a huge hassle where most insurance companies won't cover it | 18:34 |
| n_bentha | well, I'm not going to pay more than 20 bucks for it, so we'll see how it goes | 18:34 |
| n_bentha | klafka1, just get your doc to change what the dx | 18:34 |
| n_bentha | so much can be done in this world if one monkey signs off for X | 18:35 |
| klafka1 | um so you're saying 'tell the dr to diagnose someone with narcolepsy' ? | 18:35 |
| klafka1 | that's illegal you know | 18:35 |
| n_bentha | just a couple buttons need to be pressed by X monkey and you can do Y | 18:35 |
| n_bentha | haha legal. | 18:35 |
| yashgaroth | $1.40 per pill off mymodafinil, they're pretty reliable | 18:36 |
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| n_bentha | that's 40+ dollars for a 30 day script | 18:37 |
| klafka1 | yashgaroth that's pretty nice | 18:37 |
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| yashgaroth | still cheap, especially if you need it | 18:38 |
| delinquentme | so a vendor strolls into town touting "smart pills" | 18:38 |
| delinquentme | people swarm yadda ya ... " How do they work " ... " Is this really a smart pill ? " Yes they work. yes it is infact a smart pill | 18:39 |
| delinquentme | one guy walks up | 18:39 |
| delinquentme | TAKE MY MONEY | 18:39 |
| delinquentme | vendor sells him a jar ... | 18:39 |
| delinquentme | dude continutes to come back week after week stocking up on these smart pills | 18:39 |
| delinquentme | one day he walks up to the vendor ... says " These smart pills taste a little bit like rabbit shit " | 18:40 |
| delinquentme | vendor: " Youre getting smarter already ! " | 18:40 |
| delinquentme | </share> | 18:40 |
| n_bentha | heh | 18:40 |
| delinquentme | 1 ! score! | 18:42 |
| klafka1 | lol | 18:42 |
| kanzure | i think i am paying $12/pill | 18:44 |
| n_bentha | don't do it bro | 18:44 |
| katsmeow-afk | for what?? | 18:44 |
| kanzure | adderall. | 18:44 |
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| katsmeow-afk | ouch | 18:45 |
| kanzure | *shrug* | 18:45 |
| n_bentha | dayyyum | 18:45 |
| katsmeow-afk | charge it to insurance | 18:45 |
| kanzure | insurance doesn't cover it | 18:45 |
| klafka1 | kanzure is it generic? | 18:45 |
| kanzure | also, i'd be willing to pay up to $500/mo in pills | 18:45 |
| klafka1 | that seems really high for generic | 18:45 |
| n_bentha | i'll sell it to you for 5 dollars a pill? | 18:45 |
| katsmeow-afk | will if a doc writes it? | 18:45 |
| kanzure | klafka1: no, the generic is actually a different formulation; but generic costs the same anyway | 18:45 |
| n_bentha | still make lots of profit | 18:45 |
| n_bentha | ke ke ke | 18:45 |
| n_bentha | (j/k) | 18:45 |
| delinquentme | does anyone have advice on how to estimate the market cap of a private company? | 18:46 |
| delinquentme | website | 18:46 |
| kanzure | katsmeow-afk: a doc does! heh. | 18:46 |
| delinquentme | number of employees | 18:46 |
| kanzure | delinquentme: market cap only applies to publicly traded companies | 18:46 |
| klafka1 | delinquentme the amount of money the last round of investors paid per stock share * # of shares of stock | 18:46 |
| klafka1 | is a decent lower bound as long as the company is doing better | 18:46 |
| delinquentme | yeah i mean like | 18:46 |
| delinquentme | " how can I estimate what they're worth " | 18:47 |
| delinquentme | private companies | 18:47 |
| klafka1 | not having that specific amount of information? | 18:47 |
| klafka1 | do you know what their revenue is? | 18:47 |
| delinquentme | nah | 18:47 |
| klafka1 | it depends on what you know baout the company | 18:47 |
| delinquentme | like i need to go off publically available information | 18:47 |
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| kanzure | you should stick with public biotech companies, and read their SEC filings | 18:47 |
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| kanzure | gmail has screwed up all the links in my emails | 18:55 |
| kanzure | http://goog_1445275241/ | 18:55 |
| kanzure | what the hell is this? | 18:55 |
| katsmeow-afk | a google_browser shortcut,preaps | 18:56 |
| kanzure | anyway.. simon linked to this: | 18:57 |
| kanzure | <$0.50 16bit chip http://avnetexpress.avnet.com/store/em/EMController/Microcontroller/Texas-Instruments/MSP430F2011IN/_/R-4243501/A-4243501/An-0?action=part&catalogId=500201&langId=-1&storeId=500201&listIndex=-1 | 18:57 |
| kanzure | and <$5 programmer for it | 18:57 |
| kanzure | http://e2e.ti.com/group/msp430launchpad/w/default.aspx | 18:57 |
| katsmeow-afk | wow | 18:57 |
| katsmeow-afk | also wow because i haven't heard from avnet or hamilton-avnet in forever | 18:58 |
| kanzure | when i was first looking into microcontroller programming, | 18:58 |
| kanzure | all the dev boards looked hiddeously expensive | 18:58 |
| kanzure | and i didn't want to make my own flasher at the time | 18:58 |
| katsmeow-afk | many still are | 18:59 |
| kanzure | i was really suspicious of these >$100 dev boards | 18:59 |
| kanzure | so anyway. <$5 dev board makes me happy. i wonder if it works. | 18:59 |
| poptire | kanzure: have you really never heard of the msp430? | 19:01 |
| poptire | and you call yourself a hacker | 19:01 |
| kanzure | haha | 19:01 |
| kanzure | nope i haven't used it/heard of it | 19:02 |
| poptire | they've been around for a long time | 19:02 |
| poptire | they're good | 19:02 |
| poptire | they're cheap | 19:02 |
| katsmeow-afk | i heard of it last year, ut prices have dropped | 19:02 |
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| poptire | the linux toolchain is a bit crappy | 19:02 |
| kanzure | ahh. that sucks. | 19:02 |
| poptire | in terms of setting it up, at least | 19:02 |
| poptire | once it's set up, you're good | 19:02 |
| poptire | katsmeow-afk: so far as i know, the dev board's always been $4.30 | 19:03 |
| katsmeow-afk | any MSP430's with hardware multipliers? | 19:04 |
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| * katsmeow-afk searches around | 19:05 | |
| katsmeow-afk | it has an external coprocessor for math | 19:07 |
| kanzure | well, the z80 doesn't even do multiplication | 19:08 |
| kanzure | a math coprocessor would have been nice :| | 19:08 |
| klafka1 | wow UF cut their CS dept | 19:08 |
| katsmeow-afk | i wasn't holding it against the chip, i just wondered if i had a compelling reason to use it yet | 19:08 |
| katsmeow-afk | ok, just chasing down one MSP430 with a hardware multiplier, the MSP430F1611 | 19:12 |
| katsmeow-afk | , it's over $12 per chip | 19:13 |
| Jora | you guys building your own cpus | 19:13 |
| katsmeow-afk | it *is* a microcontroller, has a cpu on it | 19:14 |
| Jora | i meant desktops sorry | 19:14 |
| AdrianG | klafka1: entirely? | 19:14 |
| klafka1 | looks like it | 19:15 |
| klafka1 | http://www.forbes.com/sites/stevensalzberg/2012/04/22/university-of-florida-eliminates-computer-science-department-increases-athletic-budgets-hmm/ | 19:15 |
| katsmeow-afk | no money in smart computers, no one wants to spend money on them, they pay for the roman arena model of entertainment | 19:16 |
| kanzure | Jora: http://code.google.com/p/homecmos | 19:17 |
| Jora | nyan cat, gotta love it | 19:18 |
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| poptire | klafka1: there's a gif for that | 19:23 |
| poptire | http://gifs.gifbin.com/florida.gif | 19:23 |
| poptire | and, honestly, to be competitive in the global marketplace we need big, strong dudes, not dweeby engineers | 19:25 |
| poptire | :P | 19:25 |
| klafka1 | haha | 19:25 |
| klafka1 | true | 19:25 |
| klafka1 | it was good enough for sampson | 19:25 |
| klafka1 | dammit | 19:25 |
| poptire | who else is gonna beat up the chinese? | 19:25 |
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| delinquentme | yashgaroth, http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/319726_306004566140259_126894987384552_702980_622646966_n.jpg | 19:28 |
| delinquentme | found ur comp | 19:28 |
| yashgaroth | I might do that actually, this micro case is really annoying | 19:28 |
| klafka1 | Perl is ?some assembly required?. Python is ?batteries included?. PHP is ?kitchen sink, but it?s from Canada and both faucets are labeled C?. | 19:29 |
| klafka1 | lol | 19:29 |
| poptire | klafka1: what would the C programming language fall under in that analogy? | 19:30 |
| klafka1 | 'completely DIY" | 19:31 |
| louipc | how bout lisp | 19:31 |
| poptire | "some assembly required" :P | 19:32 |
| poptire | Re: C | 19:32 |
| delinquentme | no. | 19:33 |
| delinquentme | php is >> http://g-cdn.apartmenttherapy.com/234991/Useless01_rect540.jpg | 19:33 |
| louipc | php slices your avocado? | 19:34 |
| delinquentme | :D | 19:34 |
| delinquentme | sorry to break the silly mode but WTF: | 19:35 |
| delinquentme | http://www.satimagingcorp.com/galleryimages/worldview-2-qatar-doha-the-pearl.jpg | 19:35 |
| delinquentme | that is BEAUTIFUL and I've neber heard of / seen it before | 19:35 |
| delinquentme | bigger: http://hqwallpapers.eu/wallpaper/pearlqatar1_en_wikipedia_org_wiki_the_pearl_qatar_high_resolution_desktop_7000x3851_wallpaper-1007101.jpg | 19:35 |
| louipc | that dubai? | 19:36 |
| delinquentme | quatar | 19:36 |
| louipc | haha they're all doing that stuff now? | 19:36 |
| diginet | *qatar | 19:36 |
| diginet | Lisp is the one true language | 19:37 |
| yashgaroth | perfect storm of oil money, absolute monarchy, and slave labor | 19:37 |
| delinquentme | yashgaroth, +1 | 19:38 |
| yashgaroth | I mean, ffs dubai, the point of skyscrapers is that it's cheaper to build up than out | 19:39 |
| louipc | it's funny how they'll have to constantly battle erosion | 19:39 |
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| delinquentme | http://forums.reprap.org/read.php?178,126584 | 19:58 |
| delinquentme | delta printer! | 19:58 |
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| delinquentme | damn!!!!!! http://www.marginallyclever.com/2012/02/building-a-delta-robot-alternate-design/ | 20:01 |
| kanzure | it's just a picture of a video.. what is it actually | 20:02 |
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| delinquentme | kanzure, you cant run the video? | 20:08 |
| delinquentme | its a delta 3d printer all in metal an acrylic | 20:08 |
| delinquentme | its quite beautiful | 20:08 |
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| kanzure | i'd rather not watch videos on the interwebs, yes | 20:26 |
| delinquentme | ?? no comprendo | 20:31 |
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| delinquentme | OH MAN | 20:32 |
| delinquentme | just ate so much delish health fewd | 20:32 |
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| delinquentme | beans and avocado and tomatoes and chiggn' | 20:32 |
| delinquentme | jar | 20:32 |
| kanzure | delinquentme: signal to noise ratio, man | 20:32 |
| delinquentme | theres nothing going on right now | 20:32 |
| delinquentme | http://www.festo.com/net/SupportPortal/Downloads/26890/NHB_2012_en.pdf << amazing design | 20:33 |
| delinquentme | ... http://www.festo.com/cms/nl-be_be/16306_16336.htm#id_16336 | 20:35 |
| delinquentme | that is almost not real | 20:35 |
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| delinquentme | GOD i love robots http://www.makerbot.com/blog/2012/04/13/robot-makes-chairs-out-of-refrigerators-really/ | 20:51 |
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| delinquentme | kanzure, so steppers | 21:16 |
| kanzure | delinquentme: reprap is not precise enough | 21:16 |
| delinquentme | but what I mean is if you scale it | 21:16 |
| delinquentme | could it be ? | 21:16 |
| kanzure | no | 21:16 |
| kanzure | fenn: please dump your original reasons | 21:16 |
| delinquentme | there are settings for movement / revolution | 21:16 |
| delinquentme | in the code | 21:16 |
| kanzure | software isn't the problem | 21:17 |
| delinquentme | well yeah if i know whats the issue ill keep an eye out | 21:17 |
| kanzure | what? | 21:17 |
| kanzure | that's not how you do design :P | 21:18 |
| kanzure | anyway, the xy stage and gantry is mostly done | 21:18 |
| kanzure | just not ordered/assembled yet | 21:18 |
| kanzure | also, i need to whip up a parts list for photolithography work | 21:18 |
| delinquentme | I mean if its simply a matter of scale right? | 21:19 |
| delinquentme | ( and so I can explain myself ... lets assume it is ) | 21:19 |
| delinquentme | ... deal? | 21:19 |
| louipc | reprap make crappy parts | 21:19 |
| delinquentme | so if the normal machine is spec'd out to use acme threaded rods which are say 10mm / turn | 21:20 |
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| delinquentme | if you leave the software as it is .. and put in 5mm/ rot you've effectively scaled that axis by .5 | 21:20 |
| kanzure | louipc: one of our projects is a submicron resolution laser cutter for rapid prototyping of microfluidic chips | 21:20 |
| delinquentme | it just seems like a really simple solution | 21:20 |
| delinquentme | also louipc i think that depends on how well the printer is setup | 21:21 |
| kanzure | i'm not really interested in reprap's software | 21:21 |
| louipc | kanzure: how bout laser sintering? | 21:21 |
| kanzure | i think linuxcnc is fine | 21:21 |
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| kanzure | louipc: what material? | 21:21 |
| kanzure | btw, if you're unfamiliar with this technology.. http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/microfluidics/ | 21:22 |
| delinquentme | so its a software issue? | 21:22 |
| kanzure | it's not a software issue | 21:22 |
| diginet | so, I was going some research on plant-based proteinaceous fibers | 21:22 |
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| diginet | and I came across this abomination: http://heartsleevesblog.com/2011/11/15/so-silky-its-milky/ [-] | 21:22 |
| diginet | "According to the Daily Mail, QMilch is the first man-made fibre produced entirely without chemicals." | 21:22 |
| kanzure | "the daily mail" is not reputable | 21:23 |
| diginet | I don't know what's worse, using hte Daily Mail as a source, or not understanding that CHEMICALS ENCOMPASSES ANYTHING MADE OF ATOMS YOU DOLT | 21:23 |
| kanzure | and people should stop reading that site | 21:23 |
| louipc | kanzure: I dunno, steel, aluminum, tungsten, titanium | 21:23 |
| diginet | oh I know | 21:23 |
| kanzure | louipc: ah, no. | 21:23 |
| kanzure | louipc: we're doing pdms and acrylic and maybe glass | 21:23 |
| louipc | from powdered medium | 21:23 |
| diginet | "But wait, there’s more. Apparently the amino acids in the protein are antibacterial, anti-ageing and can help regulate blood circulation and body temperature." | 21:24 |
| diginet | what. . . | 21:24 |
| kanzure | well, i guess i have seen sls of plastic before | 21:24 |
| diginet | the stupid. . .it hurts | 21:24 |
| kanzure | louipc: i haven't considered it for this case, but i'm familiar with sls | 21:24 |
| delinquentme | diginet, im with you | 21:24 |
| delinquentme | its right up there with people not eating GMO crops | 21:24 |
| diginet | I'm all for sustainability, but finding information of the topic is so hard | 21:24 |
| diginet | *on | 21:25 |
| diginet | that isn't this kind of woo | 21:25 |
| delinquentme | give me a threshold of GMO and well talk | 21:25 |
| diginet | I'm sick ZOMG CHEMICUHLS R BAD | 21:25 |
| louipc | kanzure: ah right | 21:25 |
| diginet | anyway | 21:26 |
| louipc | delinquentme: I think the problem with the rep rap is the process itself.. it's extrusion | 21:26 |
| diginet | I had sort of a cool idea, as a side project to spider silk. Apparently, there are fibers made from reconsituted soy protein extract | 21:26 |
| diginet | so they sort of mirror the properties of animal fibers | 21:26 |
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| delinquentme | louipc, i dont follow | 21:27 |
| delinquentme | you're saying by definition the process has issues? | 21:27 |
| diginet | Since duckweed has similar protein content as soy does, it should be possible to make fibers from duckweed protein extract by a similar process | 21:27 |
| louipc | yeah you're just dragging about a long noodle | 21:27 |
| delinquentme | louipc, I still dont follow | 21:27 |
| delinquentme | you're saying that that cant work structurally? | 21:28 |
| delinquentme | and for kanzure application im simply saying to build upon the gantry controls | 21:28 |
| louipc | well not if you want to build layers the way it's being done | 21:28 |
| kanzure | 10 micron 3D printing isn't really useful.. just use photolithography like any other sane person | 21:28 |
| louipc | if you were pushing the plastic through a die to form an extruded shape that would be fine | 21:28 |
| diginet | IMO, the best 3d printer would work like a laser printer | 21:29 |
| kanzure | the reprap gantry is not useful for this | 21:29 |
| louipc | same is done with aluminum in industry | 21:29 |
| diginet | replace the toner with the target material | 21:29 |
| diginet | print in layers | 21:29 |
| delinquentme | louipc, I think the real question here is .. what tolerances can this print tech meet | 21:29 |
| delinquentme | sure im not making planes out of it | 21:29 |
| delinquentme | but can it serve to make chess pieces? sure | 21:29 |
| louipc | delinquentme: yeah but look at the surface finish | 21:29 |
| kanzure | chess pieces are thousands of times larger than what we're building | 21:30 |
| delinquentme | how about something more complex / structurally testing | 21:30 |
| delinquentme | kanzure, that was @ louipc | 21:30 |
| kanzure | yes i know | 21:30 |
| delinquentme | what about it? its got streaks | 21:30 |
| delinquentme | can that work reliably as a coat hanger? | 21:30 |
| delinquentme | people make reliable whistles out of it | 21:31 |
| delinquentme | so the trick is just finding the limits or the threshold of application its useful for | 21:31 |
| delinquentme | dont build monster truck roll cages | 21:31 |
| delinquentme | instead build toy car bumpers | 21:31 |
| delinquentme | kanzure, i just wanted to make sure you knew that scaling could be done in software | 21:31 |
| louipc | ok.. but are you gonna want one machine for cheap stuff, then one machine to do better stuff? | 21:31 |
| kanzure | haha don't worry about me and software :3 | 21:32 |
| delinquentme | so long as you got that thats all I really needed to convey :D | 21:32 |
| delinquentme | check | 21:32 |
| louipc | or just one machine period | 21:32 |
| delinquentme | louipc, what am I building? | 21:32 |
| delinquentme | are there cost efficiencies in 1 machine over the other? | 21:32 |
| delinquentme | ( probably ) | 21:32 |
| delinquentme | cost or other efficiencies | 21:32 |
| louipc | isn't the point of reprap to print whatever you want/need at the moment? | 21:32 |
| louipc | it costs less to have one machine than two machines | 21:33 |
| delinquentme | repraps you can get in smalle resolution .. but the same volume takes longer to print | 21:33 |
| louipc | unless you really need two to increase your production | 21:33 |
| delinquentme | higher resolution ... with a smaller filament | 21:33 |
| delinquentme | so then yeah its about the application right | 21:33 |
| louipc | sure, but what if you can use a machine for both applications | 21:34 |
| louipc | and whatever tolerance/rigidity requirements you need you set for that application | 21:35 |
| louipc | that ribbed finish is a structural weakness, and it'll always be there with extrusion | 21:36 |
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| kanzure | hi _F7_ | 21:43 |
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| delinquentme | louipc, true @ the finish | 21:43 |
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| delinquentme | but thats like saying ... dont use concrete .. it cant handle extension forces | 21:43 |
| delinquentme | im saying " Pick an appropriate application " | 21:44 |
| louipc | delinquentme: but yeah I guess it's for fun stuff for now... | 21:44 |
| delinquentme | =] | 21:44 |
| delinquentme | yeah | 21:44 |
| delinquentme | so far | 21:44 |
| louipc | guess it'll help people work out other aspects of the machine | 21:44 |
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| louipc | until they figure out a better additive method | 21:44 |
| louipc | :P | 21:44 |
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| delinquentme | louipc, there is actually a funded startup whos working on cheap accurate 3d printing | 21:47 |
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| louipc | delinquentme: who's that? | 21:58 |
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| delinquentme | form something | 21:59 |
| delinquentme | ALRIGHT | 22:02 |
| delinquentme | later all | 22:02 |
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| kanzure | http://phdcomics.com/movie/ but sadly they are charging for it | 22:02 |
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| kanzure | "anatomy of a professor's homepage" http://www.phdcomics.com/comics/archive.php?comicid=1487 | 22:10 |
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| kanzure | "reported sightings of our professor" is also strangely accurate http://www.phdcomics.com/comics/archive.php?comicid=1482 | 22:12 |
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| Mokbortolan_ | http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2012-04/uos-ntm041912.php | 22:36 |
| Mokbortolan_ | the team describes a new method for making medical devices called nerve guidance conduits or NGCs. | 22:36 |
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| Mokbortolan_ | so, could you just "hijack" a nerve with this? | 22:39 |
| Mokbortolan_ | and make it go somewhere else entirely | 22:39 |
| Mokbortolan_ | ooh | 22:43 |
| Mokbortolan_ | I wonder if you could a channel where they'd have to grow through fine channels with some kind of monitoring ability | 22:43 |
| Mokbortolan_ | ^make | 22:44 |
| Mokbortolan_ | you could just make a cut-out | 22:44 |
| Mokbortolan_ | though, you'd have to be reeaaally sure everything gets back together properly... | 22:45 |
| diginet | is there any way to attack the side group in amino acid residues to convert them to glycine? | 22:48 |
| diginet | (that's practical) | 22:48 |
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| kanzure | http://www.sciencescape.org/news/launchstory | 23:23 |
| kanzure | "21 million papers in 25,000 journals" | 23:23 |
| kanzure | meh just a landing page | 23:23 |
| kanzure | nevermind | 23:23 |
| kanzure | http://www.pythonanywhere.com/ random python shells | 23:24 |
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| diginet | kanzure, I had an idea I want to try on spider silk, that, if it were to work, would make the production of it super simple | 23:29 |
| diginet | basically, I've been reading a little more, and apparently, according to several papers, there is a large constituency of people who argue that its properties lie more in the spinning/extrusion process than the exact sequence | 23:30 |
| diginet | anyhow, if the sequence only has to be approximate, I could put glycine and trace amino acids in a vat, and then alanine in another vat, and follow protocols for peptide synthesis, but, since the make up, not the sequence is important, I can just let it happen, then after glycine rich chains and alanine chains have been built up independently, combine the two | 23:32 |
| diginet | let it happen, without worrying about protection for ensuring a specific sequence | 23:32 |
| diginet | if this works, make the spider silk would be as simple as buying whey extract at a health food store | 23:33 |
| Mokbortolan_ | or you could glue it to a spider's abdomen and use its ductwork as a print head | 23:33 |
| Mokbortolan_ | a tube | 23:33 |
| diginet | hahahahaahah | 23:33 |
| diginet | something tells me that wouldn't work so well :P | 23:33 |
| Mokbortolan_ | it would probably resent it | 23:33 |
| diginet | hah | 23:34 |
| diginet | anyhow, I | 23:34 |
| diginet | I'm trying to find a way to chemically induce hydrolysis of the peptide bonds so I can get individual amino acids | 23:35 |
| yashgaroth | oh god there's so many things wrong here I don't know where to begin | 23:37 |
| diginet | ? | 23:38 |
| yashgaroth | sequence is still important even if exact sequence isn't | 23:39 |
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| diginet | of course | 23:39 |
| diginet | but I'm talking on the scale of the individual "sentences" | 23:39 |
| yashgaroth | so am I | 23:39 |
| kanzure | yashgaroth: i'm about to sleep, but let me know if i should /kick diginet out of the channel for being too wrong | 23:39 |
| yashgaroth | no no at least he's not a conspiracy nutjob | 23:40 |
| diginet | am I disliked now? | 23:40 |
| kanzure | diginet: i hate everyone equally | 23:40 |
| diginet | confused | 23:40 |
| yashgaroth | it's just you seem to completely change your approach every three hours | 23:40 |
| kanzure | 'night | 23:41 |
| diginet | yashgaroth, oh I know, it's my OCD kicking in (I hate using that, because the term has been so marginalized, but it's true). I always second guess myself | 23:41 |
| diginet | I know I probably sound horribly harebrained and nutty | 23:42 |
| yashgaroth | like you're going down the list of options and deciding the easier ones won't work, but based on maybe a paper you read or a website blurb | 23:42 |
| diginet | that's a bit of an exagerration, I've only been reading published papers, but I see what you mean | 23:43 |
| yashgaroth | try insect cell expression first, or even just dissolving spider webs and trying to reconstitute them | 23:44 |
| yashgaroth | there's a reason no one uses insect expression or peptide synthesis unless absolutely necessary | 23:45 |
| yashgaroth | err, in vitro expression not insect* | 23:45 |
| klafka1 | diginet i obviously have no idea but i suspect even if hte sequence of peptides isn't that important the folding and conformation of them is, as well as the general distribution of various sidechains/charges/etc... | 23:46 |
| diginet | I guess my problem is obsession with having every detail thoroughly described in a process. Culturing cells is obviously not like performing a chemical synthesis with stoichiometric amounts | 23:46 |
| diginet | klafka1, oh yeah definitely | 23:47 |
| yashgaroth | hahaha if you want every detail, biology is deffo not for you | 23:47 |
| diginet | hahaha yep | 23:47 |
| kanzure | your first plan will absolutely fail | 23:47 |
| kanzure | and you will debug it about 100 times before it works | 23:48 |
| kanzure | this is how modern biology works :/ | 23:48 |
| diginet | yeah :( | 23:48 |
| yashgaroth | we're reverse engineering an immensely complex system, and it's barely even robust | 23:48 |
| diginet | I was reading obsessively about aeroponics a couple months ago, I just couldn't deal with the fact that the parameter space is not even vaguelly fully fleshed out | 23:49 |
| klafka1 | modern biology in a nutshell - a fuckton of assumptions to find a correlation that will go in a pile that will hopefully be big enough to one day produce reasonable evidence that there is some kind of causation | 23:49 |
| diginet | hahah | 23:49 |
| diginet | very true | 23:50 |
| * kanzure sleepz | 23:50 | |
| diginet | I guess I'm just a weirdo, lol | 23:50 |
| diginet | anyway, regardless of whether it turns out as I would want, I still think regenerated protein fibers are interesting | 23:52 |
| klafka1 | what does regenerated mean? | 23:52 |
| diginet | well for example the protein from soybeans in extracted and spun into a fiber that's called "soybean silk" | 23:53 |
| yashgaroth | you mean native soybean proteins, or transgenic spider silk components? | 23:54 |
| diginet | no, native soybean proteins | 23:54 |
| yashgaroth | well sure if you denature any proteins and extrude them, they'll stick together in a string | 23:55 |
| diginet | they do more than that, but yeah, that's the general idea | 23:55 |
| diginet | unfortunately they kind of suck | 23:55 |
| yashgaroth | no they suck terribly, compared to a keratin or collagen or any other protein that's evolved to be useful in that shape | 23:56 |
| diginet | yeah | 23:58 |
| yashgaroth | the secondary structure is the important part - even if the interstitial portions can vary in size and composition, you still need defined segments that stick between the proteins | 23:58 |
| diginet | what I'm saying is that, the basic structure of spider silk is strings of alanines interspersed among amorphous glycine rich regions, so shouldn't it be possible to randomly grow the glycine rich chains and alanine chains in seperate reactors, then combine the mixture so that the two peptide varities will attach to one another to form longer peptides? | 23:59 |
| --- Log closed Mon Apr 23 00:00:10 2012 | ||
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