2012-04-25.log

--- Log opened Wed Apr 25 00:00:50 2012
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diginetdo you mean hivemind as in collective knowledge of a bunch of users, or an echo chamber? Quora seemed pretty good last time I checked, but I haven't specifically looked into it.  Reddit, on the otherhand, due to its nature seems to just breed a bunch of insular, self-congratulatory cesspools01:24
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sylph_makocollective knowledge. But it's a matter of perspective. The conditions beget each other.02:37
sylph_makoI mean a good thing.02:38
sylph_makodiginet, why by it's nature? I never thought it was inherent to reddit, just to the sorts it attracts at this point. And those sorts can be avoided.02:39
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strangewarpI have tried to enjoy Reddit, and I have failed. But maybe the origin of this failure is not in me.04:06
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fennmy heroic battle against the forces of openscad http://fennetic.net/irc/polar_screw_thread.png05:16
ThomasEgithe profile looks a bit screwed?05:20
ThomasEgiimpressive none the les05:21
ThomasEgis05:21
fenni eyeballed it. will write a script to create the proper screw profile, after a long nap05:22
fennalso i don't recommend "upgrading" to gnome 305:24
fenneven with fallback mode it has lost a lot05:24
ThomasEgihm. my upgrade plan goes from gnome2 to lxde, or an even lighter alternative. maybe a tiling window manager05:26
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phrykThomasEgi: I perrsonally use and like awesome :P06:14
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phrykThe only tiling wm that has a systray that I have been using so far.06:14
ThomasEgiright now i am on gnome2 , compiz with tiling plugin06:23
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@kanzurenmz787: http://diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki08:00
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nmz787k08:04
nmz787what am i looking for?08:05
@kanzurejust at the recent updates there.08:07
@kanzurealso, it looks like their hostile takeover is complete: http://blog.makezine.com/2012/04/23/makes-exclusive-interview-with-alicia-gibb-president-of-the-open-source-hardware-association/08:07
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@kanzurepfft they call themselves the open hardware community when talking with the IRS08:10
@kanzurehttp://mach30online.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/1023-response-packet-7-20-11.pdf08:10
nmz787so i guess we're a team/group for fbi presentations08:11
@kanzurebleh these are the guys that did "open design engine"? that was pretty awful08:12
@kanzure(redmine is nice, but "hosted project management" has been done to death)08:12
@kanzurenmz787: dunno.08:12
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nmz787well if this started thru diybio....08:13
nmz787but is becoming probio08:13
nmz787its fuzzy08:13
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@kanzurenmz787: what, because there's money to spend?08:17
nmz787we're looking to productize? commercialize? i almost have a degree?08:18
@kanzurehaa you will have to resolve that last one on your own :P08:20
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@kanzurewell, at the moment we're not commercialized08:20
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@kanzureso far this is very much a DIY operation08:20
rdbI'm about to order PTFE coated high grade cylindrical magnets, anyone want some?08:21
@kanzure"Some programmers nicknamed the finished product LOL memory, for Little Old Lady memory."  "In 1967, binutils was a person."08:21
rdbabout 1.50 euros each08:22
@kanzureapollo program source code http://www.ibiblio.org/apollo/links.html08:22
@kanzure"RCA 110A (Saturn ground computer) Mathematical Subroutine Manual.  Dimitri Marinakis (thanks Dimitri!) sent me this.  The ground computer which which the LVDC cooperated was an RCA 110A."08:23
@kanzure""Mathematical Subroutine Manual" sounds very exciting until you find that it means "multiplication", "division", "cosine", "sine", etc."08:23
@kanzurecan someone please write an agc assembler or emulator so that we can run apollo software?08:25
@kanzurepreferably in my browser08:26
nmz787i think diy depends on end goal in this field, as our methods aren't really unconventional08:26
nmz787we arent hoping to demo dna synth, we're hoping to improve and sell/license it later08:27
nmz787i.e. it seems any company goes through this phase08:28
nmz787vs just diy ppl doing it for fun/hobby08:28
@kanzurebut... if doing a project isn't biohacking, then what the heck is08:33
nmz787i didnt say not biohacking, but with pro goals, not ending with a blog post then going back to our day jobs08:35
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n_benthahttp://bit.ly/diybionews2 hasn't had any updates recently09:13
@kanzurei am a slacker09:13
@kanzuredo you have links to contribute :|09:14
n_benthasadly, no09:15
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@kanzure"This isn’t just bad news for Shaw. Because his company is in the red, he has been unable to pull together the financing he needs to expand his factory in Little Elm. So he has partnered with Chinese companies, which put up money to build assembly lines in China in return for permission to produce his syringes for the Chinese market."09:22
@kanzure"Fun fact: the actual programs in the spacecraft were stored in core rope memory, an ancient memory technology made by (literally) weaving a fabric/rope, where the bits were physical rings of ferrite material."09:23
@kanzurehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Core_rope_memory09:23
katsmeow-afki've seen those for sale on ebay09:24
ThomasEgiwell, those are rather robust09:24
ThomasEgiback in the days there have been no other storage medium that could meet the requirements09:25
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katsmeow-afkper the wikipedia page, the cores in rope "memory" were merely functionally, OR gates?09:28
katsmeow-afkwow09:28
katsmeow-afki have such a thing made as a diode array upstairs somewhere09:29
katsmeow-afkmuch easier to chage the program with diodes09:29
ThomasEgikatsmeow-afk, that core memory workes on magnetic hysteresis iirc09:29
ThomasEgiyou can store data on it just fine09:30
katsmeow-afkThe signal from a word line wire passing through a given core is coupled to the bit line wire and interpreted as a binary "one" while a word line wire that bypasses the core is not coupled to the bit line wire and is read as a "zero". <<== no hysteresis involved, it's merely magnetic coupling09:30
katsmeow-afkyou are confusing the rope with http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_core_memory09:30
ThomasEgithat is the reading mechanics. but the working principle remains magnetic hysteresis09:33
Cat4DSummary of Obama Executive Order 2012.04.23 suiciding western tech industry:  http://obsama.com/obama.html09:33
ThomasEgikatsmeow-afk, it is illustrated in the diagramm on the right side09:34
@kanzureCat4D: please stop linking to that09:34
katsmeow-afknot according to the definition of http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/hysteresis09:34
katsmeow-afki see no diagram on the right09:34
ThomasEgihttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ringkernspeicher_hysteresekurven.agr.png09:34
katsmeow-afkthat's for ==>> Diagram of the magnetic hysteresis curve for a magnetic memory core during a read operation.09:35
@kanzurehooray for naming your links when they are awful09:36
ThomasEgii thought we were talking about magnetic core memory, right?09:36
@kanzurekatsmeow-afk gets points09:36
katsmeow-afkstrictly speaking, the rope core wasn't memory, the word line was woven thru various bit cores and enabled the bit by magnetic coupling09:36
katsmeow-afkno, we were talking rope core09:36
katsmeow-afkrope core is "programmed" by which wires are run thru which individual cores09:37
katsmeow-afkit's rom, hard "programmed" as it's wired, but can be re-wired, and randomly accessed09:37
ThomasEgiwhupse. sory for messing those 2 up then09:38
ThomasEgii sorta jumped in as magnetic core memory was used in spacecrafts for quite a while09:38
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n_benthai'd want one of these for my labs09:47
n_benthaa plasma sterilizer09:47
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n_benthahow come labs don't have plasma sterilizers?09:54
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ParahSailinits new09:55
ParahSailinwhere do i get a plasma sterilizer09:55
n_benthaapparently you can make one?09:56
n_benthav09:56
n_benthahttp://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/14/business/14novel.html?_r=109:56
ParahSailinso you've answered your question09:57
ParahSailinmaybe ill build one for my lab09:57
n_benthathey've got some commercial sanitizers already10:02
n_benthathis shit is 2 years old, so i'm not quite sure why they haven't started production at all10:02
ParahSailinprobably because patents10:02
ParahSailinabolish intellectual poverty10:02
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n_benthaprobably because of the medical supply industry10:05
n_benthashutting it down10:05
ParahSailinfisher, vwr, bd, one of them probably bought the patent10:06
n_benthathey probably would lose too much money on their alcohol / Cl sanitizers10:06
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n_benthaand their moisturizers10:06
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n_benthabloody corporations10:07
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ParahSailinthat hand/glove sanitizer is pretty cool10:30
ParahSailinthat would be a very clean tissue culture suite10:30
ParahSailinno wet alcohol all over the place10:30
n_benthayup. i first saw one in use in some japanese greenhouse10:31
n_benthaall high-tech10:31
ParahSailinno shit, so they are commercialized10:31
n_benthamaybe in japan?10:32
n_benthabut there hasn't been any recent news about it...10:33
ParahSailinwhat voltage would that device require, is there a real video of it working?10:33
ParahSailinintuitively it seems like the electricity required to make lightning arcs would hurt10:34
katsmeow-afki didn't see the url, is it just a way of making and delivering localised ozone?10:35
n_benthathe video i saw was on bbc10:35
n_benthabut it was years ago10:35
n_benthahere is one that is for medical instruments: http://www.tuttnauer.com/products/medical-autoclaves/medical-clinics-or/plazmax10:38
katsmeow-afkah, after reading the url, i see why they have not been commercialised int he usa, according to EPA they make too many pollutants10:38
katsmeow-afkwhile they won't hurt your hands or feet, they will hurt your lungs by the same mechanism they kill otehr living things10:39
n_benthai thought there were no pollutants?10:41
katsmeow-afki saw a hospital built such that the exhaust pipes of ambulances poured pollutants directly at air intakes for the building (including the surgery and SICU), and that was more acceptable than operating an ozone generator in the ducts to kill bacteria and molds10:41
n_bentha"No hazardous or odourous emissions"10:41
katsmeow-afknot hazardous to the skin, no10:42
katsmeow-afkplasma/arcs disassociate molecules, making free oxygen, which recombines as O3, and the article mentions peroxides generated10:42
katsmeow-afkoxones/peroxides kill ung cells on contact10:43
ParahSailinyou know that bullshit, because catalytic converters turn nox and ozone back into nitrogen and oxygen10:43
ParahSailinits pretty easy to deal with those10:43
n_benthacouldn't you just have a fan that moves air from the back of the unit to the front and down towards a catalytic converter then?10:44
katsmeow-afkumm,, sure, go for it10:45
ParahSailinrepeal the epa10:45
n_benthaso it's pretty easy not to breathe in the bad stuff, katsmeow10:46
katsmeow-afkok, go for it10:47
n_bentha"B10:49
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katsmeow-afkwhat?10:50
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vrskanzure: poke10:50
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vrs19:50:30 [freenode] -!- n_bentha [~lolicon@75.111.75.178]10:50
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@kanzurevrs: hello10:50
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rdbfinally10:50
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katsmeow-afkhe prolly copy/pasted from a site littering tween each html printable char with a <cr>10:51
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@kanzuren_bentha: wb10:52
katsmeow-afki think he has no idea : [n_bentha PING reply]: 1min 52secs  ,, he wouldn't, coundn't do that on purpose10:52
n_benthathx10:53
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katsmeow-afkso what were you trying to paste, n_bentha10:58
n_benthai said it after i pasted11:01
katsmeow-afkyou were kicked out before you ended11:02
n_benthathat the exhaust is o2 and h20 from the plasma sterilization process11:02
katsmeow-afkok, go for it11:02
n_benthago for what?11:03
katsmeow-afkcommercialising it11:03
n_benthaI wasn't trying to11:03
katsmeow-afkmy appologies11:03
n_benthap-salin wanted to use it for his lab11:04
n_benthai was just saying that it would be nice as it would help out the medical industry sterilize hands11:05
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@kanzurearticle about nasa software group http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/06/writestuff.html11:07
n_benthamade in Clear Lake, Texas (scary)11:09
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@kanzurei have a disturbing amount of unpublished code in my ~/scripts11:43
@kanzureexport_lathe_elements.py cycloidal-gears.py laserservo.py google_metacrawler.py google_suggest.py make-private-tor-network.py reynolds.pl11:44
@kanzurestepper.py stepviewer.py STL_pyvtk_visualizer.py STL_read.py STL_write.py yahoogroups-fetcher.tbz211:44
@kanzuregithub-bulk-follow github-followers find-all-cutsets.py parsemeetlog.pl pyceptron.py reeb.py11:45
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@kanzureexplore_opencascade.py looks like it dumps a graphviz chart of the opencascade APIs11:47
@kanzurechemicalFormulas.py markovgen.py graphtheory.py okcupid.py occ_stl.py modelica.py transtech.py sldprt_to_3dxml.py csg.py ragdoll-pyode-tutorial.py pymates.py emotiv.py emotiv_hid.py11:50
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@kanzureruggedcom exploit http://seclists.org/fulldisclosure/2012/Apr/27711:54
@kanzure"You'll find their gear installed in traffic control11:54
@kanzuresystems, railroad communications systems, power plants, electrical11:54
@kanzuresubstations, and even US military sites."11:54
@kanzure"An undocumented backdoor account exists within all released versions11:55
@kanzureof RuggedCom's Rugged Operating System (ROS®).  The username for the11:55
@kanzureaccount, which cannot be disabled, is "factory" and its password is11:55
@kanzuredynamically generated based on the device's MAC address."11:55
ParahSailinlol11:57
ThomasEgimore like.. rigged os eh?12:00
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nmz787_Kanzure : what are the 3d items in the repo?14:59
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@kanzurenmz787_: openscad scripts15:03
@kanzurealso i think fenn might have committed a haskell script (which uses implicitcad)15:03
ThomasEgilol?15:03
ThomasEgiah sry. wrong window15:03
nmz787_Ok i can try to get them working later, never used openscad or haskell before15:06
@kanzurei sorta dislike openscad but setting up anything else (like opencascade) is too painful15:06
@kanzurealthough, maybe i could yell at fenn for not using brlcad15:06
nmz787_Is that the one started by the navy?15:08
@kanzureballistics research lab15:10
@kanzurehttp://brlcad.org/15:10
@kanzurebrlcad is actively maintained and has lots of document, but it doesn't have parametric surface manipulation15:10
@kanzure*documentation15:10
@kanzuretechnically, openscad doesn't either. opencascade does.15:10
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@kanzurei've been meaning to write all this out on http://diyhpl.us/wiki/cadfaq for years now but a written document might not be ideal15:11
@kanzuremaybe i should do a giant chart to compare/communicate features15:11
@kanzurebut yes.. brlcad is the army's: "Mike Muuss began the initial architecture and design of BRL-CAD back in 1979. Development as a unified package began in 1983. The first public release was made in 1984. BRL-CAD became an open source project on 21 December 2004."15:14
nmz787_Would be nice15:14
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@kanzurenmz787_: you're mobile so you probably can't get to the link easily.. but:15:20
@kanzurehttp://diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/plain/projects/rail.scad?id=bd43de4d7b74e160de6dc2e5fc8e37bdac88279515:20
@kanzurehttp://diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/plain/projects/truck.scad?id=bd43de4d7b74e160de6dc2e5fc8e37bdac88279515:20
nmz787_Cool15:22
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nmz787_Where can fenn/we do machining, does LL have tools?15:23
@kanzurethey have some tools but it's not a full machine shop15:24
nmz787_We will need to cut those rods15:25
@kanzurelemnos labs is down the street and we can probably bum some tool time off of them15:26
nmz787_We need to get an optical breadboard or a piece of sheet aluminum (or the alloy fenn mentioned)15:29
nmz787_To mount the rods to15:29
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fennlangton is getting a haas "minimill" :x17:38
nmz787_Can that cut the rods?17:39
@kanzureneato17:40
@kanzurefenn: update about things?17:40
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fenni was going to cut rods on the bandsaw, or if that didn't work, the abrasive chop saw18:24
fenncody was doing something similar today18:25
fennthings.. hum. well openscad modeling takes a long time it turns out (no big surprise)18:25
fenni've been fighting with my OS18:25
fennuh, the weather is nice18:26
@kanzurenmz787 is apparently showing up in early june18:26
@kanzureso it would be nice if i can order the parts in time for that18:26
fennthat's over a month, i hope i'm not still cadding by then :\18:26
@kanzurewould you like a banana?18:27
@kanzurei need some better way to indicate the phrase "cad monkey"18:27
fenn"ooh ooh ooh aah aah aah" just sounds wrong18:29
@kanzure"stop modeling a banana!"18:29
fennbananacad, the successor to the wildly unpopular avocadocad18:29
fennwhy does lxde need rpm and xmms2? come on guys, if i wanted lots of irrelevant crap i'd stick with gnome18:33
@kanzurexmms2 is the evil successor to xmms that everyone hates18:33
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fennwhen xmms stopped being available i switched to moc18:35
@kanzurenmz787_: you around?18:35
jrayhawkum. lxde is a metapackage. if you don't want random crap installed, do not use metapackages.18:37
jrayhawksimilarly, gnome is a metapackage.18:37
fennsure but there's also lxde-desktop which contains a complete set of random crap18:40
fennwhereas lxde-core is missing things like lxsession or lxpanel which one would expect to be included with a window manager18:41
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nmz787_Fenn : alloy plate plus you/we mill, or pre fab tjor labs optical breadboard?18:58
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@kanzurei don't think that will highlight his nick19:05
fennit does19:06
fenni dont see any need for milling, the plate is supposed to be pretty flat to begin with, i could be wrong19:06
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@kanzurefenn: nmz787_ so we're all agreed that we're doing both photolithography+bluray+laser? or has the plan changed again19:16
ParahSailini think you should use more laser19:19
fenni am confused, i thought the bluray laser was for cutting pdms19:19
@kanzureblue is also useful for photocuring things19:20
ParahSailinas musashi says, at every move, you must cut19:20
@kanzurei thought we decided bluray was not a good choice because of some beam-edge-coherence issue that nmz787_ brought up19:22
fennat every move, you must cure19:22
fennthe idea was blue has a smaller spot size because of diffraction and the shorter wavelength19:22
@kanzureoh and we wouldn't do any optics?19:23
@kanzurethat sounds like an excuse for not knowing anything about lenses :p19:23
fennit already has optics? i don't know anything about lenses :P19:23
fennit seems irresponsible to not just try it and see if it works19:23
@kanzureyou can't just turn on a light source and hope it meets the parameters we want19:23
fennyes i can19:24
@kanzurei think wikipedia says the spot size is <1 micron?19:24
@kanzurebut yes, we should definitely try it19:24
fennwell then, that sounds better than we need doesn't it19:24
@kanzurebut we should also try photolithography probably19:24
@kanzurenot really, it doubles the number of steps we need or something19:24
fennoh, it's easier to make a larger spot19:24
@kanzurea beam expander?19:25
fennjust change the Z19:25
fenni doubt we'll get 1 micron anyway19:25
fenn"For Blu-ray Disc, the spot size is 580 nm."19:26
nmz787bluray drive already has highly engineered optics, hopefully there is only one focusing voil coil, which is just the Z... i.e. hopefully there isn't a second focusing optic somewhere in there that is triggered by the bluray controller.19:29
nmz787alternatively, we could maybe just hook it up to a SATA port, and cut the stepper wires19:30
nmz787tell it to burn a full disc of bluray at 12X19:30
nmz787using nero or brasero or whatever19:30
nmz787kanzure: even with beam coherence issues, its still gonna be easier to get a smaller spot, and if its enough power we don't really care if the beam is coherent, as long as it blasts the hell outta the PDMS... we're dragging the beam along the path anyway, so it will average out19:31
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fennoh the worry was fringes?19:33
nmz787fenn: i meant machining the plate with holes for the support rails... how will we get them square and bolted down?19:33
fennget what square?19:33
nmz787fenn: my buddy was working at a particle physics laser lab19:33
nmz787so from his perspective its all that mattered really19:33
nmz787get the gantry support rails perpendicular19:34
fennah19:34
nmz787err19:34
nmz787parallel19:34
fenni havent figured out how to do that yet19:34
fennparalle is easy19:34
nmz787i figure the thorlabs plate has a matrix of holes19:34
fennmount dti on one rail, leave second rail bolts slightly loose, tap with tiny hammer19:34
nmz787it isn't much more than the alloy you mentioned from mcmaster19:34
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nmz787i cant remember the acronym19:35
fennneed 3 plates though19:35
fennmic-6 is the alloy19:35
nmz787yeah19:35
nmz787why 319:35
nmz787and not 1?19:35
fenntop middle and bottom19:35
nmz787won't there just be top and bottom?19:35
fenni am planning on putting the rails on the middle plate19:35
nmz787top moves laser, bottom moves substrate?19:35
fenni should really get on this cad stuff huh19:35
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fennanyway you need 3 with serial kinematics19:36
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nmz787X Y Z?19:37
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nmz787pic?19:38
fennserial = standard cartesian axis movement, more or less19:38
fenner i misspoke19:38
nmz787something like this? https://home.comcast.net/~jpzavodny/IMG_4382.JPG19:39
fennsee the three plates here? http://www.lasermotion.com/images/optics/ano1216.gif19:40
fenni dont know what that t-slot image is supposed to represent19:40
fenni should probably get a thicker plate than 1/4"19:41
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fenn"Workstation assembly, as shown $ 9,750"19:50
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d3nd3https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_B1PkgA3kA&feature=g-logo20:12
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nmz787ahh, where is the work being done there fenn?20:14
katsmeow-afksome time ago, the topic of growing diamonds was mentioned in here : http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/tech/artificial-diamonds.html20:23
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Joraevening20:37
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d3nd3good night.20:55
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@kanzuredoes anyone want to write a lexer for me21:09
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nmz787lexer?21:14
nmz787katsmeow-afk: pretty cool video21:15
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fennshouldn't you be using pyparsing?21:16
@kanzureprobably21:24
@kanzurefenn: i'm using ply.lex21:24
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@kanzure"When it's cheaper to buy heroin on the street than an aspirin in a hospital you know that the market is screwed up somewhere"22:00
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bkeroheh22:12
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Adifexhttp://tinypic.com/r/30cc6f5/622:37
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Adifexoops sorry wrong board *facepalm*23:15
Adifexthat's our Honors director23:15
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Mariuo/23:24
Utopiahhttp://www.europarl.europa.eu/stoa/cms/cache/offonce/home/events/workshops/enhancement23:53
Mariuis indefinite life span included ?23:54
Mariu*lifespan23:55
Utopiahthey say "perfect life", not sure yet what that stands for I doubt indefinite life span or escape velocity will ever be mentionned23:56
Mariu:/23:56
Utopiahif you really are curious there will be a live stream23:56
Mariusure23:57
Mariulink me up23:57
Utopiahhttp://www.europarl.europa.eu/ep-live/en/other-events/video?event=20120426-0900-SPECIAL-STOA&vodtype=Live23:58
Mariuthanks23:58
fennyet another ethics circle jerk23:59
--- Log closed Thu Apr 26 00:00:11 2012

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