| --- Log opened Mon May 14 00:00:09 2012 | ||
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| jennicide | kanzure, are you awake? | 01:56 |
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| @kanzure | jennicide: somewhat | 06:05 |
| jennicide | If philosophers concede Bunge's binary conception of knowledge, then it follows that knowledge of multiple subsets of knowledge are commonsensical. | 06:10 |
| jennicide | how does that read | 06:10 |
| jennicide | If one were to accept Bunge's binary conception of knowledge, then it follows that knowledge of multiple subsets of knowledge are commonsensical. | 06:10 |
| jennicide | is | 06:10 |
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| @kanzure | jennicide: it reads like a philosophy paper | 06:13 |
| jennicide | it is | 06:13 |
| chevbird | kanzure: do you sleep? | 06:13 |
| jennicide | If one were to accept Bunge's binary conception of knowledge, then it follows that knowledge of multiple subsets of knowledge is commonsensical as it is not scientific. As such, the argument should be framed to appeal to an individual's commonsense. | 06:13 |
| @kanzure | chevbird: only with women, etc. etc. | 06:17 |
| @kanzure | jennicide: do you mean "is as commonseniscal as not scientific"? | 06:18 |
| jennicide | If one were to accept Bunge's binary conception of knowledge, then it follows that knowledge of multiple subsets of knowledge is commonsensical, because it is not scientific knowledge. As such, the argument should be framed to appeal to an individual's commonsense. | 06:19 |
| @kanzure | "the argument" being.. accepting his notion? | 06:20 |
| jennicide | oh | 06:21 |
| jennicide | As such, the argument for philosophically derived knowledge should be framed to appeal to an individual's commonsense. | 06:22 |
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| @kanzure | "Unlike scientific knowledge, an argument for philosophically derived knowledge-- such as Bunge's binary conception of knowledge-- should be framed to appeal to an individual's commonsense." | 06:28 |
| jennicide | bunge's conception of knowledge doesnt really include a space for philosophically derived knowledge | 06:29 |
| jennicide | not implicitly | 06:29 |
| jennicide | im just kind of shoe horning it in | 06:29 |
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| * nsh offers around a plate of complementary hyphens | 06:33 | |
| @kanzure | nsh: what's up? i saw your distress signal the other day | 06:36 |
| nsh | dealing with a few health issues | 06:38 |
| nsh | gam zeh ya'avor | 06:38 |
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| @kanzure | win 6 | 10:16 |
| @kanzure | dasdasfadasdasdfasda | 10:16 |
| @kanzure | jrayhawk: i've been using p/n i swear | 10:16 |
| jrayhawk | ha ha ha | 10:17 |
| @kanzure | maybe i should tie it to some financial incentive | 10:18 |
| @kanzure | every time i use /win, irssi will transfer money from my account to yours | 10:19 |
| @kanzure | however, this might just incentivize me to not switch windows at all | 10:19 |
| jrayhawk | You can also use /window move to shuffle your most-used windows closer to eachother. | 10:20 |
| @kanzure | yep, i have them clustered | 10:20 |
| @kanzure | i try to avoid moving over 'active' windows that i don't intend to immediately respond to | 10:20 |
| @kanzure | this way, the notifications are still pending | 10:20 |
| jrayhawk | alt-1 through alt-9 are also faster than /win | 10:21 |
| @kanzure | alt-n is tied into my gnome-terminal session | 10:22 |
| jrayhawk | assuming you're not foolishly attempting to use screen | 10:22 |
| @kanzure | i suppose i should setup different gnome-terminal profiles with different keyboard bindings, one for the session with ssh/irssi | 10:23 |
| jrayhawk | window management functions should really use Super_L instead of alt | 10:23 |
| @kanzure | true i sorta ignore that key for some reason | 10:24 |
| @kanzure | this is stupid, if i had enough monitors i wouldn't need hidden windows | 10:24 |
| jrayhawk | i like that attitude | 10:24 |
| @kanzure | i want something like this for rotating out a certain monitor in my 10-set: | 10:26 |
| @kanzure | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2L03za762jA#t=2 | 10:26 |
| @kanzure | possibly better example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ol_sFbcKekM#t=16 | 10:28 |
| jrayhawk | http://www.ergotron.com/ stepper motors+ergotrons+face tracking to keep the monitors perfectly aligned | 10:31 |
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| nmz787 | i read something crazy eariler about what i think was implying something like quantum entanglement between DNA/genes, their mRNA, and subsequently proteins... as well as between chromosomes of a multicellular body | 10:35 |
| nmz787 | http://www.emergentmind.org/gariaevI3.htm | 10:35 |
| nmz787 | i have no idea if its prodigal genius that most normal ppl couldn't possibly understand for another 100 years | 10:36 |
| nmz787 | or if its just quackery | 10:36 |
| @kanzure | jrayhawk: http://www.forecast-consoles.com/products/sightline/mounting_options is a wall-rail mounting system, but i'm not convinced | 10:38 |
| @kanzure | jrayhawk: i'm not satisfied until individual monitors are under mechanical control and can be switched out via the keyboard | 10:39 |
| nmz787 | "Controlling metabolism by IR laser beams and DNA functioning | 10:39 |
| nmz787 | by maser beams?" | 10:39 |
| nmz787 | sect 6, pg 34 http://www.emergentmind.org/PDF_files.htm/conscholo0302.PDF | 10:39 |
| jrayhawk | why do you want to swap them out, anyway | 10:40 |
| @kanzure | jrayhawk: i have a limited field of vision. i could rotate my chair and possibly surround myself with monitors, but there is still a physical limit to how many monitors can be stuffed in front of me | 10:41 |
| @kanzure | i suppose at that point, virtual desktops are okay :/ | 10:42 |
| @kanzure | http://www.stocktradingtogo.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/multi-monitor-setup.jpg identify the blue bottle! | 10:43 |
| nmz787 | how big and how many panels you have now? | 10:43 |
| @kanzure | sadly i am down to two, but at one point i had seven-ish | 10:44 |
| @kanzure | oh, sorry, three right now | 10:44 |
| jrayhawk | http://www.omgwallhack.org/home/jrayhawk/img/hovel/20120512_008.jpg NOT ENOUGH | 10:44 |
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| @kanzure | i spy with my little eye.. a bad taste in shoes | 10:45 |
| ThomasEgi | epic picture | 10:45 |
| nmz787 | The basic theme of this evolution would be the gradual de-entanglement. | 10:46 |
| nmz787 | The ancient world has survived in fairy tales. In this world remote mental | 10:46 |
| nmz787 | interactions like telepathy, remote healing, and witchcraft were every-day life. | 10:46 |
| nmz787 | Incredible-to-us physical feats like building of pyramids might have been made | 10:46 |
| nmz787 | possible by the liberation of energy and coherent momentum in the formation of | 10:46 |
| nmz787 | collective bound state entanglement. The rhytmic work songs helping to gener- | 10:46 |
| nmz787 | ate body synchrony are a remnant from this period, but are not sung in modern | 10:46 |
| nmz787 | IT companies. | 10:46 |
| nmz787 | hah, kanzure, we need a rhythmic work song | 10:47 |
| @kanzure | sounds like quackery to me | 10:47 |
| jrayhawk | i liked those composite-toe shoes | 10:48 |
| @kanzure | also, nmz787 was kind enough to fetch that DNA stability paper | 10:48 |
| @kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/~nmz787/instability%20and%20decay%20of%20the%20primary%20structure%20of%20DNA.pdf | 10:48 |
| nmz787 | Inhibition by various neurotransmitters could be seen as a measure for the degree of de-entanglement. Inhibition acts as the filter, which de-entangles the brain from other brains and the body from the bodies of other life forms. During hallucinatory experiences, generated by say drugs, inhibition "fails". The degree of inhibition indeed increases, as one climbs along evolutionary tree and in human brain most of the neural acti | 10:50 |
| nmz787 | (this paper mentioned the other paper i posted first, which talks about bio-entanglement on different abstract levels) | 10:50 |
| nmz787 | (i.e. cell to cell, cell of multicellular organism being able to regenerate another multicellular organism... gene to RNA to protein) | 10:51 |
| @kanzure | "It is therefore as incredible as the report of bacterial growth at 250 degrees Celsius" neat | 10:52 |
| nmz787 | (though it was also implying that they were physically entangled via quantum mechanics as well as abstractly/ideologically entangled) | 10:52 |
| Mariu | won't those HDDs screw those CRT monitors ? | 10:52 |
| @kanzure | wait, i'm pretty sure we know of some bacteria that can grow at atleast 50C,right? | 10:52 |
| nmz787 | deep sea thermal vents | 10:53 |
| nmz787 | dunno what temp they are | 10:53 |
| @kanzure | yeah.. but that's def. not 250C | 10:53 |
| @kanzure | oh geeze.. 407C | 10:53 |
| nmz787 | wiki says thermophiles up to 122C | 10:53 |
| @kanzure | maybe those thermal vent thermophiles were only recently discovered in the 90s | 10:54 |
| @kanzure | nope.. "Hyperthermophiles were first discovered by Thomas D. Brock in 1969, in hot springs in Yellowstone National Park, Wyoming." | 10:55 |
| @kanzure | "An extraordinary heat-tolerant hyperthermophile is the recently discovered Strain 121[2] which has been able to double its population during 24 hours in an autoclave at 121°C (hence its name); the current record growth temperature is 122°C, for Methanopyrus kandleri." | 10:55 |
| jrayhawk | Mariu: not a whole lot; hard drive magnets are pretty small. far more annoying is poorly shielded monitors interfering with eachother with radiation. | 10:55 |
| @kanzure | "However, it is thought unlikely that microbes could survive at temperatures above 150°C, as the cohesion of DNA and other vital molecules begins to break down at this point" | 10:55 |
| Mariu | got it, jrayhawk | 10:56 |
| nmz787 | kanzure: 2. Baross J A , D e m i n g J W (1983) G r o w t h o f " b l a c k s m o k e r " b a c t e r i a a t t e m p e r a t u r e s o f a t l e a st 250"C. N a t u r e ( L o n d o n ) 3 0 3 : 4 2 3 - 4 2 6 | 10:56 |
| jrayhawk | In general, Sonys and Viewsonics are pretty good at shielding both in and out. | 10:57 |
| nmz787 | kanzure: Ba ros s JA, D e m i n g JW, Be cke r R R (1984) E v i d e n c e f o r m i c r o b i a l g r owt h in high-pr e s sur e , h i g h - t e m p e r a t u r e e n v i r o n m e n t s . In: K.tug M J , R e d d y C A (eds) C u r r e n t p e r s p e c t i v e s in m i c r o b i a l e cology. A m Soc Mi c r o b i o l , Wa s h i n g t o n , DC , pp 1 8 6 - 1 9 5 | 10:57 |
| @kanzure | ah i see | 10:57 |
| @kanzure | jrayhawk: i never had trouble with my ancient viewsonics. </anecdote> | 10:58 |
| @kanzure | bosslab should totally team up with "boston science club for girls" | 10:59 |
| nmz787 | http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v303/n5916/abs/303423a0.html | 10:59 |
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| @kanzure | nmz787: was it disproven? | 11:01 |
| nmz787 | http://diyhpl.us/~nmz787/growth%20of%20black%20smoker%20bacteria%20at%20temperatures%20of%20at%20least%20250%20celsius.pdf | 11:03 |
| @kanzure | oh neat, we've cultured bacteria from a depth of 10,476 meters? go science.. | 11:03 |
| jrayhawk | Degaussing poorly shielded monitors right next to eachother is fun, though. | 11:10 |
| Mariu | :p | 11:11 |
| nmz787 | http://matpitka.blogspot.com/ | 11:12 |
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| @kanzure | http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/joylabs/makey-makey-an-invention-kit-for-everyone | 11:39 |
| @kanzure | hrm. this feels like a media lab thing. | 11:40 |
| klafka1 | oh of course | 11:42 |
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| delinquentme | hio all~ =] | 11:43 |
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| Mariu | hey =] | 11:50 |
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| nmz787 | i guess this disproves all of those water memory and homeopathy papers http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v434/n7030/full/nature03383.html | 11:57 |
| klafka1 | homeopathy was disproven? holy crap | 12:14 |
| nmz787 | I just don't understand how people can uphold this stuff with words, rather than with physical proof | 12:22 |
| nmz787 | like all this was done ~10 years ago http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_memory#Subsequent_research | 12:23 |
| nmz787 | and yet i'm finding homeopathy referenced in recent articles (which are pretty weird/farout articles in general) | 12:23 |
| jrayhawk | homeopathy is a network of related observations and proposed mechanisms; a mechanistic study is not going to "disprove" the observational portions | 12:24 |
| chris_99 | huh | 12:29 |
| chris_99 | what observational portions | 12:31 |
| jrayhawk | http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=homeopathy+meta-analysis | 12:36 |
| jrayhawk | though i don't know specifically what portions klafka1 was attempting to invoke with his rather uncharitable leap | 12:37 |
| chris_99 | i'm confused what you're trying to say jrayhawk, you don't think it can be disproved | 12:37 |
| chris_99 | ? | 12:37 |
| @kanzure | "water memory"? | 12:38 |
| chris_99 | the idea that water remembers what chemicals it mixes with, utter BS | 12:38 |
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| jrayhawk | While I do find it highly unlikely that a body of evidence as large as homeopathy, even if it is the product of bias, will ever be "disproven", that belief doesn't seem particularly relevant to the conversation at hand...? | 12:45 |
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| chris_99 | i don't know what is the conversation at hand | 12:47 |
| chris_99 | i've just joined | 12:47 |
| jrayhawk | Nah, you caught everything. | 12:47 |
| @kanzure | 'disasterbationists' | 12:48 |
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| @kanzure | hi mensch | 12:49 |
| mensch | Hi | 12:49 |
| @kanzure | mensch: are you from bosslab? | 12:49 |
| mensch | No | 12:50 |
| mensch | But I am in the Boston area... | 12:50 |
| @kanzure | ah. might be worth checking out bosslab.org then | 12:50 |
| mensch | Yes, I think so, thanks for the link haha | 12:50 |
| @kanzure | oh god they updated their site. it used to be better. | 12:51 |
| @kanzure | now it's some tumblr crap | 12:51 |
| mensch | Yeah, it looks pretty preppy | 12:51 |
| @kanzure | i swear just a week ago it was legit :( | 12:52 |
| @kanzure | mensch: http://web.archive.org/web/20110621191534/http://bosslab.org/ | 12:53 |
| mensch | Oh, wow, that looked pretty decent. | 12:53 |
| @kanzure | yeah.. who the hell decided to go with tumblr instead of that? | 12:54 |
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| docl | http://lesswrong.com/lw/8f4/neil_degrasse_tyson_on_cryonics/6l8r | 13:03 |
| @kanzure | please describe your links when they have awful urls | 13:05 |
| docl | me doing a data dump on the cryoprotectant toxicity issue. | 13:05 |
| @kanzure | pookie isn't smart enough to figure out when and when not to do that :( | 13:05 |
| @kanzure | i see | 13:05 |
| @kanzure | docl: how experienced are you with vitrification? i mean, have you done tissue samples? | 13:05 |
| docl | not personally. this is all second-hand. | 13:05 |
| docl | I know chana de wolf personally, she does it pretty often. I've watched her perfuse rats. | 13:06 |
| @kanzure | i met aschwin's brother-in-law at a bus stop in austin, texas once | 13:06 |
| @kanzure | it was pretty awkward | 13:06 |
| docl | heh, her family's fundamentalist from her descriptions. | 13:07 |
| docl | oh wait, you said aschwin | 13:07 |
| @kanzure | yes, her husband's brother-in-law (i forget the exact relation) | 13:07 |
| docl | chana's brother then? | 13:07 |
| @kanzure | that's one possibility | 13:08 |
| docl | austin texas, sounds like it. | 13:08 |
| docl | heh, what was he like? | 13:08 |
| @kanzure | gangly, sorta proud that he had something topical to suggest | 13:09 |
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| docl | how did you find out he was aschwin's brother in law? | 13:10 |
| @kanzure | at the time, fenn was living with me and we would ride buses to places and be talking about random transhumanist projects | 13:11 |
| delinquentme | actually thats a good point ... Im assuming that no one has cryoed a mouse and brought it back | 13:12 |
| docl | kanzure: so you had a high enough profile, and he was all 'hey my brother-in-law is a transhumanist'? | 13:12 |
| @kanzure | delinquentme: there are various tissue/ice problems, some of which have been resolved by proper temperatuer curves | 13:12 |
| delinquentme | is this in the vitrification process or the thawing? | 13:13 |
| @kanzure | docl: something like that, he said, "oh, hey, i think my inlaw/brother does that ... yeah, aschwin de wolf" | 13:13 |
| @kanzure | in san francisco i would expect something like that, but not in austin | 13:13 |
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| docl | delinquentme: both. if you vitrify (using high concentrations of CPA) that postpones the damage in a sense, as the worst of it (I believe) happens during the thawing phase. | 13:16 |
| docl | basically the cryoprotectants are toxic, but that only matters if the tissue is warm and exposed to them for a long enough time. | 13:18 |
| docl | also it matters if the concentration is high. lower concentration means more time is safe. | 13:18 |
| docl | ice-blockers such as antifreeze proteins or certain polymers can prevent freezing with lower concentrations of cryoprotectant | 13:19 |
| docl | the trouble is these do not penetrate the cells well | 13:19 |
| docl | you might be able to work around by making the cell produce an antifreeze protein or perhaps a sugar like trehalose | 13:20 |
| docl | Tardigrades can survive LN2 immersion because they produce trehalose inside their cells. | 13:20 |
| docl | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tardigrade | 13:21 |
| chris_99 | isn't glycerol one of the chemicals they use in cryogenics | 13:22 |
| @kanzure | Juul: did you get around to doing the antifreeze protein project? | 13:22 |
| klafka1 | hey are parameters coming into classes in python pass by value or reference? | 13:25 |
| @kanzure | klafka1: reference | 13:25 |
| @kanzure | klafka1: from copy import copy, deepcopy | 13:25 |
| klafka1 | gotchya | 13:30 |
| klafka1 | hey also if you have a variable without a self inside a class method, that's just a variable scoped to the method right? | 13:30 |
| klafka1 | but if you have self. it's a class instance variable right? | 13:30 |
| @kanzure | correct | 13:31 |
| klafka1 | ok cool | 13:32 |
| chris_99 | are there any "must read" books on transhumanism | 13:33 |
| @kanzure | chris_99: no, they are all terrible | 13:33 |
| @kanzure | in fact, you should *not* read them | 13:33 |
| chris_99 | heh | 13:33 |
| klafka1 | HAHAH | 13:34 |
| @kanzure | even that one 'diy biohacking' book is questionable | 13:35 |
| chris_99 | which one? | 13:36 |
| @kanzure | http://www.amazon.com/Biopunk-Scientists-Hack-Software-Life/dp/1617230022 | 13:36 |
| @kanzure | oops i mean | 13:36 |
| @kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/diybio/biopunk.pdf | 13:36 |
| chris_99 | ive read that | 13:36 |
| @kanzure | 'the singularity is near' is the standard staple book that everyone recommends, but it's not particularly useful | 13:37 |
| chris_99 | i've read most of that too | 13:37 |
| @kanzure | 'biology is technology' is the one that people recommend if they enjoy rob carlson | 13:37 |
| @kanzure | but you can probably just get the same content out of his blog | 13:38 |
| docl | chris_99: yes, glycerol is one of the cryoprotectants they use | 13:38 |
| docl | terminology nitpick: cryonics (or cryobiology), not cryogenics | 13:39 |
| @kanzure | terminology nitpick accepted | 13:39 |
| chris_99 | aha. i find it difficult to imagine that the glycerol or whatever | 13:39 |
| chris_99 | could permeate the entire brain | 13:39 |
| docl | the circulatory system is used. | 13:39 |
| docl | the brain is fairly well vascularized, as organs go | 13:40 |
| docl | but it does take time to permeate. especially if you want to prevent osmotic shock. | 13:40 |
| chris_99 | hmm, but each cell needs to absorb it right? | 13:40 |
| docl | yes. but these are small molecules that penetrate very well. | 13:40 |
| docl | DMSO, glycerol, ethyline glycol | 13:41 |
| chris_99 | has there been any sucessful cases of cryobiology with mammals | 13:41 |
| @kanzure | there has been some tissue experiments, and an old cat/rabbit brain | 13:41 |
| docl | with tissue samples, sure... not whole mammals, not at cryonics temperatures at least. | 13:42 |
| chris_99 | aha | 13:42 |
| docl | mammals have been brought to below zero centigrade and brought back though. | 13:42 |
| docl | part of the problem is getting the cryoprotectant out again without giving it time to have toxic effects on cells. that is a part that might go away with advanced nanotech (along with certain others). | 13:43 |
| chris_99 | oh i didn't realise you had to extract it again | 13:44 |
| chris_99 | is glycerol toxic? | 13:44 |
| docl | yeah, they all are in the concentrations needed to prevent ice formation. | 13:44 |
| docl | however they interfere with each other's toxicity to some extent, so mixtures are better than any one of them | 13:45 |
| chris_99 | interesting | 13:45 |
| docl | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryoprotectant | 13:46 |
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| nmz787 | I started the conversation on homeopathy through crazy fringe/pseudo/too-complex-to-be-proven papers I stumbled across | 13:57 |
| Mokbortolan_ | I use a homeopathic remedy to successfully treat the symptoms of pompholyx | 13:57 |
| Mokbortolan_ | do I doubt the "science"? Yes. Do I care now it works? No. | 13:58 |
| Mokbortolan_ | it's probably placebo, but I don't care, it works | 13:58 |
| Mokbortolan_ | and is cheap | 13:58 |
| Mokbortolan_ | Would I trust the health of a seriously ill child to homeopathy? no | 14:00 |
| docl | trouble with placebo is there's hardly any room for improvement... I mean, what are you gonna do, make it more convincing? | 14:01 |
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| docl | I'm trying to think where the low-hanging fruit is for cryo research... maybe cultured neurons could be induced to produce trehalose or antifreeze proteins, thereby reducing cryoprotectant requirements. | 14:14 |
| Mokbortolan_ | docl: yeah, but that doesn't mean you can't use them | 14:16 |
| nmz787 | why not Mokbortolan_? | 14:17 |
| Mokbortolan_ | what? | 14:21 |
| Mokbortolan_ | why not what? | 14:22 |
| Mokbortolan_ | why doesn't that mean you can't use them? Why does (not) that mean that you can (not) use them... why does that mean you can use them.... because they work in some cases? | 14:22 |
| nmz787 | why cant you use them? | 14:29 |
| @kanzure | docl: antifreeze proteins would be worth studying, yes | 14:29 |
| @kanzure | docl: some of the equipment could be simplified | 14:29 |
| delinquentme | docl, is there use for frozen body parts? | 14:29 |
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| delinquentme | certainly hearts but I dont think you've got that working yet | 14:30 |
| delinquentme | sooo what about arterial valves? | 14:30 |
| delinquentme | maybe those dont decompose | 14:30 |
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| delinquentme | so something more complex ... umm eyes? | 14:30 |
| @kanzure | delinquentme: um.. what are you talking about? | 14:30 |
| delinquentme | correct me if im wrong but thats just a sweet spot issue | 14:30 |
| docl | kidneys maybe | 14:30 |
| delinquentme | kanzure, what to cryo thats 'low hanging fruit' | 14:30 |
| @kanzure | delinquentme: organs aren't low-hanging fruit | 14:31 |
| delinquentme | docl, i think kidneys are pretty complex no? | 14:31 |
| delinquentme | *nods* | 14:31 |
| @kanzure | "is there a use for frozen body parts?" what kinda question is that | 14:31 |
| delinquentme | kanzure, you talk too much | 14:31 |
| @kanzure | like, are you asking if anyone has done it before? | 14:31 |
| docl | delinquentme: I'm trying to think of what experiments can be done on a shoestring to improve the state of the art | 14:31 |
| @kanzure | docl: antifreeze protein stuff can be done for <$10k | 14:31 |
| delinquentme | docl, well plant cells are cheap as hell | 14:31 |
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| delinquentme | and kanzure it was meant as rhetorical | 14:32 |
| @kanzure | no it wasn't | 14:32 |
| delinquentme | kanzure, now you're being retarded | 14:33 |
| delinquentme | i said it. how would I not have the authority to say whether its rhetorical or not? | 14:33 |
| @kanzure | "is there use for frozen body parts?" how is that rhetorical | 14:33 |
| delinquentme | because it obviously leads to the conclusion of YES | 14:33 |
| delinquentme | there is | 14:33 |
| docl | well, neurons are the most important-to-cryonics. | 14:33 |
| @kanzure | why the hell ask it then? | 14:33 |
| delinquentme | *stupidity abounds today* | 14:33 |
| delinquentme | kanzure, why does anyone ask a rhetorical question? | 14:34 |
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| * kanzure feels better | 14:34 | |
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| docl | :) | 14:34 |
| delinquentme | nice | 14:34 |
| delinquentme | kanzure, listen man is that how you're going to run the channel | 14:34 |
| delinquentme | not funny not cute | 14:34 |
| delinquentme | not a joke | 14:34 |
| delinquentme | dont be a prick | 14:34 |
| @kanzure | i will be as big of a prick as i want to be | 14:35 |
| delinquentme | dont be | 14:35 |
| delinquentme | because acting smart gets you nowhere | 14:35 |
| @kanzure | look, do you have any relevant cryonics experience or are you just talking out of your ass | 14:35 |
| delinquentme | esp when you're just trying to fucking nitpick | 14:35 |
| delinquentme | kanzure, i was talking to docl on what the low hanging fruits are | 14:35 |
| delinquentme | now if you had read the thread you'd have known that | 14:35 |
| @kanzure | organs aren't low-hanging fruit | 14:35 |
| delinquentme | instead you just want to fire off shit | 14:36 |
| delinquentme | again | 14:36 |
| delinquentme | rhetorical question | 14:36 |
| docl | yeah organs aren't low-hanging fruit. they are a possible down-the-line product. | 14:36 |
| delinquentme | docl, so yeah the question is just which of these things are sufficiently simple | 14:36 |
| delinquentme | that you can apply it | 14:37 |
| @kanzure | delinquentme: you are banned from asking rhetorical questions for the time being, i might reconsider later | 14:37 |
| delinquentme | so like noses you can freeze and have good luck .. but IDK if there is a market for noses | 14:37 |
| @kanzure | (you might find it an interesting challenge even) | 14:37 |
| delinquentme | kanzure, fuck you | 14:37 |
| @kanzure | docl: whatdduya think about ken hayworth's brainpreservationprize stuff | 14:37 |
| @kanzure | i haven't heard from him in a while | 14:37 |
| @kanzure | oops i mean his http://brainpreservation.org/ stuff | 14:38 |
| @kanzure | the la biohacking group was doing some neural tissue cultures, but they don't have any cryoprotectant results yet | 14:38 |
| docl | hmm... I am not so sure about the connectome hypothesis. talking to kalla724 on lesswrong makes me think there are solvents you'd be losing that might encode important info | 14:38 |
| @kanzure | what do you consider to be the connectome hypothesis? that things are connected? | 14:39 |
| docl | so you would probably need cryo, not chemical fixation. | 14:39 |
| docl | yeah | 14:39 |
| eudoxia | that the connectome is all that one has to preserve for cryonics to succeed? | 14:39 |
| docl | well, that the connections are the main thing | 14:39 |
| @kanzure | i think it's pretty well proven that neurons are connected and that synpases are real | 14:39 |
| @kanzure | ah | 14:39 |
| @kanzure | docl: are you familiar with 3scan.com? | 14:40 |
| docl | no | 14:40 |
| @kanzure | they are doing destructive scanning of microtome slices | 14:40 |
| docl | interesting | 14:40 |
| @kanzure | well, they are also making microtome slices and catching the connectivity as they cut | 14:40 |
| @kanzure | then they do image analysis to reconstruct the individual neurons | 14:40 |
| @kanzure | docl: i was talking with them recently, and they might be using http://github.com/kanzure/netmorph soon to generate sample slices | 14:41 |
| @kanzure | and then run it through their image processing code | 14:41 |
| @kanzure | to confirm that they can extract the exact networks | 14:42 |
| @kanzure | docl: does kalla724 have a specific list of things that he'd want to keep? "solvents" is p. vague, any cell will have some ph balance from random crap floating around | 14:43 |
| docl | haven't seen anything specific yet :( | 14:44 |
| docl | http://lesswrong.com/lw/8f4/neil_degrasse_tyson_on_cryonics/6l0k | 14:45 |
| docl | In general, uploading a C. elegans, i.e. creating an abstract artificial worm? Entirely doable. Will probably be done in not-too-distant future. | 14:45 |
| docl | Uploading a particular C. elegans, so that the simulation reflects learning and experiences of that particular animal? Orders of magnitude more difficult. Might be possible, if we have really good technology and are looking at the living animal. | 14:45 |
| docl | Uploading a frozen C. elegans, using current technology? Again, you might be able to create an abstract worm, with all the instinctive behaviors, and maybe a few particularly strong learned ones. But any fine detail is irretrievably lost. You lose the specific "personality" of the specific worm you are trying to upload. | 14:45 |
| @kanzure | someone has already done a c. elegans upload project | 14:46 |
| @kanzure | very disappointing that nobody remembers it | 14:46 |
| docl | I get the idea we're in deeply hypothetical realms here still | 14:46 |
| eudoxia | wasn't the nematode upload done in 1997 | 14:46 |
| @kanzure | eudoxia: ancient news by now :( | 14:46 |
| eudoxia | maybe it was a species-generic thing but I suppose it counts | 14:46 |
| @kanzure | eudoxia: to be fair, it wasn't a microdialysis upload, maybe that's why people choose not to remember it | 14:47 |
| @kanzure | eudoxia: also, that was before NEURON existed (i think?), so maybe they still have the data and would be willing to release it | 14:48 |
| @kanzure | actually, why the hell don't i have a backup of all their data | 14:48 |
| eudoxia | I backed up the electron micrographs but haven't found a connectivity map or whatever it's called | 14:48 |
| @kanzure | docl: "A collaboration led by Eugene Leitl. Its aim is to achieve the 3D reconstruction and functional emulation of individual specimens of C.elegans from scanned images of the vitrified original."i | 14:49 |
| @kanzure | http://web.archive.org/web/20070814044636/minduploading.org/research/data.nematodeupload.html | 14:49 |
| @kanzure | eudoxia: you have all of those? | 14:49 |
| eudoxia | except the ones that are corrupt: PAG726L, 746, 745, 755, 760, 766 and 767 | 14:50 |
| docl | cool, Eugene Leitl is on cryonet | 14:50 |
| @kanzure | docl: he's also in here occassionally ;) he runs 'transhumantech', a mailing list he spams with somewhat-better-than-terrible transhumanist news clippings | 14:52 |
| @kanzure | eudoxia: can you email me explaining the situation? i want to loop in a few people who can help | 14:52 |
| @kanzure | eudoxia: i mean, with respect to the integrity of the files | 14:52 |
| @kanzure | also, do you have a web host that can store those files? or would you like a hosting account from me to place that data temporarily? | 14:53 |
| eudoxia | I have most of my dropbox free, and these are ~820 MB, I can upload them | 14:53 |
| @kanzure | ok lemme know the link when it's done, and we can loop in eugen leitl and the others | 14:54 |
| eudoxia | as for the integrity, I'm not sure: Image viewers tell me they can't recognize the format | 14:54 |
| @kanzure | probably eugen/3scan/randal/some other people we can blame | 14:54 |
| @kanzure | oh, i'll check them then.. | 14:54 |
| eudoxia | I guess it could be just corrupt header data | 14:55 |
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| @kanzure | are your files from internet archive? if so i can probably grab those real quick | 14:56 |
| eudoxia | yeah | 14:56 |
| @kanzure | yashgaroth: vitrification! | 14:56 |
| yashgaroth | oh boy | 14:56 |
| @kanzure | "2012-05-14 14:57:46 ERROR 502: Bad Gateway." | 14:57 |
| @kanzure | first one that works is PAG722L.png :( | 14:58 |
| eudoxia | the whole ABC group is gone | 14:58 |
| eudoxia | what do ABC and PAG mean? | 14:58 |
| @kanzure | 13.9 MB/sec | 14:59 |
| @kanzure | ok i got it | 15:01 |
| @kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/neuro/nematodeuploadproject | 15:02 |
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| eudoxia | i thought about writing a neurite tracer with that data but then I remembered I don't know wha parts of the images are what :) | 15:06 |
| @kanzure | the reason the internet archive doesn't have A.jpg is because it's 1nm/pixel | 15:09 |
| chevbird | any biochem nuts in here? | 15:12 |
| Mokbortolan_ | hah | 15:13 |
| Mokbortolan_ | probably better to ask who isn't... | 15:13 |
| Mokbortolan_ | smaller list | 15:13 |
| yashgaroth | what sort of biochem | 15:13 |
| chevbird | transposase | 15:14 |
| chevbird | specifically how it dissociates after done cleaving | 15:14 |
| yashgaroth | oh good, I thought you meant like krebs cycle biochem | 15:14 |
| Mokbortolan_ | probably just a text saying "I'll call you.." | 15:14 |
| docl | wow, eugen just burst my bubble on whether things can be nanorepaired in a vacuum | 15:14 |
| docl | http://iubio.bio.indiana.edu:7131/bionet/mm/neur-sci/1996-August/025042.html | 15:14 |
| docl | Vitrified | 15:15 |
| docl | tissue does not take vacuum too well (sublimates), but nanocritters need | 15:15 |
| docl | very hard vacuum to operate. | 15:15 |
| eudoxia | well technically | 15:15 |
| * docl was hoping vitrified tissue is fine in a vacuum | 15:15 | |
| eudoxia | mechanosynthesis needs UHV, machines made out of mechanosynthesized diamond could work outside of UHV | 15:15 |
| docl | point | 15:15 |
| yashgaroth | well I'd imagine it depends on the specific transposase, but generally the final site wouldn't be recognized by the enzyme and it'd just fall off | 15:15 |
| @kanzure | machines could have internal UHV chambers, and probably for much less energy than a giant UHV chamber | 15:16 |
| @kanzure | docl: for mechanosynthesis.. http://github.com/kanzure/nanoengineer#readme | 15:16 |
| chevbird | yashgaroth: tn5 and others, but in vitro ive been seeing that its pretty hard to "knock off" of the dna | 15:17 |
| docl | so maybe the vitrified tissue could be kept out of UHV whereas the parts of the micron-range nanoagents are kept under UHV? | 15:17 |
| yashgaroth | even if you heat it or add a detergent or something? | 15:17 |
| chevbird | and i cant find much info in the patent | 15:18 |
| yashgaroth | you don't need to know how it works to patent it :/ | 15:18 |
| chevbird | well, heating is a no go, right? cause there's an overhang that gets left between the mozaic end and your dna | 15:19 |
| chevbird | so you dont want to play too close to t50 | 15:19 |
| chevbird | the detergent, maybe | 15:19 |
| yashgaroth | or high salt or something | 15:19 |
| yashgaroth | then again a lot of that will lower the Tm anyway | 15:19 |
| chevbird | the salt may or may not work (i suspect it does but nothing for sure yet) | 15:20 |
| chevbird | im more interested in the why | 15:20 |
| chevbird | rather than guessing | 15:20 |
| chevbird | and i cant find much material | 15:20 |
| yashgaroth | hmm well let me take a look around | 15:20 |
| chevbird | and very true. im almost sure the patent was filed because "oh shit this might be useful if someone understands it" | 15:21 |
| yashgaroth | generally one expects transposases to be slow by default | 15:21 |
| chevbird | sure | 15:21 |
| yashgaroth | heh most gene patents are just "haha I sequenced it screw you give me money for the next 20+ years" | 15:21 |
| docl | eudoxia: I wonder how high of a probability I should be giving to diamond mechanosynthesis not needing UHV. | 15:23 |
| eudoxia | docl: it could work on noble gases (herp derp) and for some reason I seem to remember someone saying it could work on water | 15:23 |
| chevbird | im really trying to avoid reading a paper (laziness), but i think its unavoidable | 15:25 |
| yashgaroth | hell it might just sit there until a polymerase knocks it off | 15:25 |
| chevbird | perhaps | 15:26 |
| chevbird | i know it's not Pol I though | 15:26 |
| chevbird | cause ive tried that | 15:26 |
| yashgaroth | wait do you mean cleavage as in when it excises the transposon, or after insertion into a target strand? | 15:29 |
| chevbird | so youve got some dsDNA and your Tnp, it goes in, associates, cleaves and then just sits there | 15:30 |
| yashgaroth | maybe it's looking for a suitable integration site | 15:31 |
| chevbird | the active site is pretty unspecific if thats what youre getting at | 15:32 |
| yashgaroth | ah okay then...you could also try gel separation, and why does it matter too much if the strands melt? they should figure out how to reassociate | 15:33 |
| nmz787_ | Chevbird is this something you're doing? | 15:34 |
| chevbird | well i'm looking to preserve unique molecules and i'm not sure i want to introduce more error than i can get away wirh | 15:34 |
| chevbird | by pol or otherwise | 15:35 |
| yashgaroth | you're afraid it'll start polymerizing if you melt the strands? | 15:35 |
| chevbird | im going to have to pol and phosporylate later anyway to fill in the gaps, so id rather just fill in the small nicks then go the entire stretch of the molecule | 15:36 |
| chevbird | im not afraid of it happening right then, but if things become mostly ssdna then i'm not looking too good for downstream applications | 15:38 |
| nmz787_ | What are you asking? It will dissociate because of a confrontational change | 15:38 |
| yashgaroth | anything below a few thousand basepairs should re-anneal no problem | 15:38 |
| nmz787_ | Or after a enzyme-substrate intermediate bond is cleaved | 15:39 |
| chevbird | nmz787_ thats not what i've been seeing. mind you this is not wildtype tnp | 15:40 |
| chevbird | yashgaroth yea i'm going to be about 10kb | 15:40 |
| yashgaroth | that should anneal fine, unless you've got a bunch of gDNA sitting around in the reaction | 15:41 |
| nmz787_ | I'm just not sure what your question is. | 15:41 |
| chevbird | yash: hopefully not but not sure. would be interesting to qc and find out | 15:42 |
| yashgaroth | maybe try adding EDTA? though I don't know if the metal ions are relevant to the DNA binding per se or just the cleavage | 15:42 |
| @kanzure | nmz787_: started with how transposase dissociates from dna | 15:42 |
| nmz787_ | Right but thats all i saw about it | 15:45 |
| nmz787_ | Chevbird didnt say they were doing experiments, just studying.... what the goal is | 15:46 |
| chevbird | here's the idea http://www.google.com/patents/US20100120098?printsec=abstract#v=onepage&q&f=false | 15:47 |
| chevbird | if you look at figure 2 it magically dissociates with a black arrow | 15:48 |
| chevbird | im all out of black arrows | 15:48 |
| chevbird | so idk | 15:48 |
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| yashgaroth | Transposome™ pfft | 15:48 |
| chevbird | haha | 15:48 |
| chevbird | i do like the edta idea | 15:50 |
| nmz787_ | Hows this better than sonication then adapter ligation? | 15:53 |
| chevbird | time | 15:53 |
| nmz787_ | Or using a covaris g-tube | 15:53 |
| chevbird | time | 15:53 |
| chevbird | not really a gtube fan | 15:54 |
| yashgaroth | so the downstream application is sequencing? | 15:55 |
| chevbird | but "better" depends on who you are and how many samples you're running, how good you analysis is blah blah blah | 15:55 |
| chevbird | http://www.genomeweb.com/sequencing/transposase-library-prep-method-promises-easy-automation-less-dna-input | 15:56 |
| nmz787_ | Does it mention a restriction site in the transposon? It could be a re fused to the trabsposase | 15:56 |
| chevbird | i dont believe so | 15:57 |
| chevbird | by restriction site you meannnnnnn a non-random target? | 15:57 |
| nmz787_ | Yeah, if the removed peripheralbindin domains and fused it to the transpoaase to localize it binding domain | 15:58 |
| nmz787_ | Shit | 15:58 |
| nmz787_ | Thats outta order | 15:58 |
| @kanzure | i think nmz787_ is on a mobile phone | 15:59 |
| chevbird | im thinking rotary phone | 15:59 |
| nmz787_ | If they removed the REs peripheral binding domain(s), relyin on transposase for localization to RE site | 15:59 |
| chevbird | looking for an animation, found this instead. win http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nv74Ks1Nhlo&feature=player_embedded | 16:02 |
| chevbird | anyway, thanks for the chat, i find it interesting | 16:16 |
| yashgaroth | it's an intriguing problem...also maybe a pH change, but high salt is probably your best bet | 16:21 |
| chevbird | shifting gears... | 16:28 |
| chevbird | im planning on joining up with the bosslab guys this weekend to help out | 16:29 |
| chevbird | should be interesting | 16:29 |
| chevbird | dare i say. fun | 16:29 |
| @kanzure | mensch: you should go with him | 16:30 |
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| nmz787_ | Chevbird fig 2 looks like the transposon got cleaved, doest look like insertion | 16:37 |
| nmz787_ | Looks like fig 1 is the insertion diagram | 16:37 |
| chevbird | it does stay on | 16:37 |
| chevbird | i guess you have to trust me on that | 16:38 |
| chevbird | haha | 16:38 |
| nmz787_ | Stay on? | 16:38 |
| nmz787_ | Transposon is DNA right? | 16:38 |
| nmz787_ | Transposase is the enzyme | 16:38 |
| chevbird | the "transposome" stays on | 16:38 |
| nmz787_ | ?? | 16:38 |
| chevbird | the complex | 16:38 |
| chevbird | yea | 16:38 |
| nmz787_ | So fig 1 is insertion of transposon by transposone? | 16:39 |
| chevbird | correct | 16:39 |
| nmz787_ | then magically non-classical transpoaon behaviour happens? | 16:39 |
| chevbird | and 2 is no insertion, just putting on mozaic ends | 16:39 |
| nmz787_ | Mozaic ends? | 16:39 |
| nmz787_ | Dunno what they are | 16:39 |
| chevbird | well the repeat sequences. different people say different things | 16:40 |
| nmz787_ | I tjought transposons were just cut-paste genes with flanking adapters on the end to facilitate the cut anf paste | 16:40 |
| chevbird | yes | 16:41 |
| chevbird | and this is a modified one | 16:41 |
| chevbird | where the adapter is a modified sequence | 16:42 |
| chevbird | basically, so you can throw tags on it later | 16:42 |
| nmz787_ | Not classical transposase behavior cracked | 16:42 |
| nmz787_ | Korekt | 16:42 |
| nmz787_ | Android voice recognition fail | 16:43 |
| chevbird | so you're just talking to me | 16:43 |
| chevbird | i assume on a bus or train or somewhere where people are staring at you | 16:44 |
| nmz787_ | Driving alone in car | 16:44 |
| chevbird | what app is this? i think i may need it | 16:45 |
| @kanzure | hahaah ##hplusroadmap Learing how to use irc with ever decreasing amounts of responsibility | 16:45 |
| @kanzure | s/Learing/Learning | 16:46 |
| chevbird | indeed | 16:46 |
| nmz787_ | Androirc from google play store | 16:51 |
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| chevbird | looks like he's home | 16:57 |
| @kanzure | ping timeout just means he's out of signal range | 17:01 |
| chevbird | drats | 17:02 |
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| docl | oh, looks like they selected a project for the longecity cryoprotectant fundraiser | 17:13 |
| docl | http://www.longecity.org/forum/page/index.html/_/science/projects/cryopreservation-fundraiser-r36 | 17:13 |
| docl | they will be focusing on endothelial cells to see what neutralizes CPA toxicity | 17:15 |
| docl | a good idea since endothelial cells are part of the perfusion impairment problem and apparently inexpensive. | 17:16 |
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| delinquentme | perfusion impairment problem? | 17:24 |
| delinquentme | docl, | 17:25 |
| delinquentme | ^ | 17:25 |
| yashgaroth | I'm guessing they mean that since all the cryopreservants have to pass through the endothelial to reach all the other cells | 17:25 |
| yashgaroth | heh "Graduate student (six months): $6,000" | 17:27 |
| @kanzure | aww yeah minimum wage | 17:29 |
| @kanzure | well, below minimum wage | 17:29 |
| delinquentme | Quora gets $50 mil from Thiel | 17:32 |
| delinquentme | http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303505504577404510443769988.html?mod=wsj_nview_latest | 17:32 |
| yashgaroth | grad students would kill to make minimum wage | 17:32 |
| delinquentme | valued at $400 million =] | 17:32 |
| delinquentme | yashgaroth, thats why that system needs banged up | 17:32 |
| delinquentme | you know why they make such shit cash? because their PIs and tenure | 17:33 |
| yashgaroth | and because there's hordes of bio grad students | 17:33 |
| delinquentme | and the whole idea that you're guaranteed one of these positions if you're a student | 17:33 |
| docl | just found a podcast about the de wolfs research as well: http://www.longecity.org/media/LongeCityPodcast_DeWolf2012_A01.mp3 | 17:33 |
| delinquentme | yarp | 17:33 |
| docl | yashgaroth: yeah. perfusion impairment is pretty bad in real world scenarios. especially if there's any kind of delay. | 17:34 |
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| @kanzure | https://upverter.com/tkousar/356d3c3c43d1739c/Stepper-Motor-Driver/ | 18:26 |
| @kanzure | https://upverter.com/tkousar/0000000000006070/A-DIY-breathalyzer/ | 18:26 |
| @kanzure | man their urls suck | 18:26 |
| @kanzure | https://upverter.com/tkousar/0000000000006067/A-device-that-detects-magnetic-fields-and-poles-and-makes-a-different-sounds-depending-on-the-magnetic-field/ | 18:27 |
| @kanzure | https://upverter.com/tkousar/3e6527eacd1c1e69/Digital-Oscilloscope/ | 18:27 |
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| @kanzure | hrmm.. http://resources.upverter.com/how-to-add-a-github-repository-to-your-projec | 18:33 |
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| @kanzure | yashgaroth: you might appreciate this.. "short list of what's actually required" http://88proof.com/synthetic_biology/blog/archives/174 | 19:12 |
| @kanzure | however, i think much of that could be compressed into a bootcamp | 19:12 |
| @kanzure | like "0.5 semesters of engineering design — usually done as “introduction to engineering” classes at theoretical universities these days" is really just 5 hours of how to draw isometric boxes and produce standard engineering documents | 19:13 |
| yashgaroth | haha math is listed | 19:13 |
| yashgaroth | "significant work can be outsourced" doesn't seem to jive with the DIY approach | 19:14 |
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| yashgaroth | two semesters of general bio and one of micro seems a little...small, esp. without biochem | 19:15 |
| yashgaroth | 99% of ochem and physics is also worthless | 19:16 |
| Burninate | kanzure: Drafting was combined with parametric 3D CAD and a model-building course at my CC | 19:19 |
| yashgaroth | oh well at least they can show it to the vast majority of people on the DIYbio list who have no fucking clue what they're doing | 19:19 |
| @kanzure | Burninate: i've been doing some coding on parametric CAD if you want to talk about that sometime | 19:25 |
| @kanzure | also, it's hilarious to see mac in the comments trying to recruit jonathan cline to the diybio group: http://88proof.com/synthetic_biology/blog/archives/52/comment-page-1#comment-8 | 19:26 |
| @kanzure | (jonathan cline was already a core diybio member) | 19:26 |
| Burninate | nah, it was years ago, with Pro/E | 19:26 |
| Burninate | what project have you been coding for | 19:26 |
| @kanzure | lolcad. http://diyhpl.us/cgit/lolcad | 19:26 |
| @kanzure | also nanoengineer: http://github.com/kanzure/nanoengineer#readme | 19:26 |
| yashgaroth | hey mac is too busy doing...whatever it is he does, to know things like whether jcline is in diybio | 19:27 |
| @kanzure | mac was doing uh.. cofactor bio, then snp-party, then genelaser, then | 19:28 |
| @kanzure | well, now he's on to something else | 19:28 |
| yashgaroth | uh huh | 19:29 |
| @kanzure | seems to be doing this http://diybioftw.com/ | 19:30 |
| nmz787 | yashgaroth: i think ochem was damn useful | 19:30 |
| yashgaroth | I naturally despite anyone who's said "FTW" in the past 10 years | 19:30 |
| yashgaroth | despise* | 19:30 |
| @kanzure | wtf.. http://diybioftw.com/post/19671614110/structured-protocols | 19:30 |
| @kanzure | why didn't he share that with the diybio group? | 19:30 |
| yashgaroth | it sort of was, but then again I'm not planning to do any chemical synthesis | 19:30 |
| @kanzure | so instead of emailing that link out, it takes me three months to somehow end up at his random blog to see his reply? | 19:31 |
| nmz787 | thats not very recent either | 19:32 |
| yashgaroth | I will admit ochem lab was a lot of fun | 19:32 |
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| klafka1 | ochem lab was a lot of fun | 19:55 |
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| @kanzure | http://code.google.com/p/openworm/wiki/CElegansNeuroML | 20:27 |
| @kanzure | "Even the C. elegans connectome is missing a complete account of its ion channels, something that some groups are trying to address" | 20:27 |
| @kanzure | nice.. models of single neurons: http://senselab.med.yale.edu/modeldb/ModelList.asp?id=3537 | 20:27 |
| @kanzure | that's a pretty long list | 20:28 |
| klafka | did you see the back and forth on the connectome in that one video? | 20:29 |
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| @kanzure | klafka: no? | 20:37 |
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| nmz787 | kanzure: chandni is having a 2nd interview w/SF company | 20:45 |
| @kanzure | neat | 20:46 |
| nmz787 | so if you signed a lease, does moving out there make synthesis work easier? | 20:46 |
| @kanzure | not really, it makes it slightly more annoying to move out of austin | 20:47 |
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| @kanzure | hi nate_ | 21:49 |
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| Cat4D | i need a 200kw gunn diode transistor or heterooptical driver | 22:00 |
| Cat4D | an associated rectifier, and info on how to buffer/store the DC for pulse modulation | 22:01 |
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| @kanzure | yashgaroth: ugh http://medicalxpress.com/news/2012-05-scientists-successfully-gene-therapy-aging-associated.html | 22:16 |
| @kanzure | "virally delivered telomerase extends lifespan of 1-year old mice by 24%" | 22:16 |
| lichen|2 | does it say how much increase of cancer risk that induced? | 22:17 |
| yashgaroth | lolol "This might be the only practical solution for an anti-ageing therapy" | 22:17 |
| @kanzure | i wonder what mouse line they were using | 22:19 |
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| * yashgaroth tries to find the article | 22:20 | |
| yashgaroth | ehh doesn't matter what mouse strain they use, they're all just as inbred | 22:21 |
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| yashgaroth | well they didn't waste any time before patenting it | 22:28 |
| yashgaroth | I don't think they'd be able to measure an increased risk of cancer, since mice don't get it as often as humans and telomerase might not even be a limiting factor for it | 22:31 |
| yashgaroth | also I hate reading patents but using GFP as the control seems biased since GFP is toxic | 22:32 |
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| nmz787 | kanzure: know this guy? http://www.matzkefamily.net/doug/papers/quantum/Mensa2008BiologicalQuantum.pdf | 23:00 |
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| nmz787 | "Brain could be folded 3D antenna" | 23:03 |
| nmz787 | "Evolutionary advantage if bio-quantum link" | 23:03 |
| yashgaroth | um | 23:03 |
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| Mokbortolan_ | that's why you wear the tinfoil hat | 23:04 |
| Mokbortolan_ | not to shield your brain from the government, that's clearly ridiculous | 23:05 |
| yashgaroth | this stuff is almost colander hat level | 23:05 |
| Mokbortolan_ | it's to serve as a waveguide for the folded 3d bio-quantum antenna that is your brain | 23:05 |
| Mokbortolan_ | and then, by focusing your innate N-Rays, you can have powers untold | 23:06 |
| Mokbortolan_ | i'm sure it's in the bible somewhere | 23:10 |
| Mokbortolan_ | methuselah or something | 23:10 |
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| --- Log closed Tue May 15 00:00:10 2012 | ||
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