| --- Log opened Thu May 31 00:00:26 2012 | ||
| kanzure | i hate that i remember this | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| kanzure | http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2010/08/ray_kurzweil_does_not_understa.php | 00:00 |
| kanzure | strangewarp: that one? | 00:01 |
| strangewarp | Hm, don't think so, let me read it and check | 00:02 |
| kanzure | also his name is myers | 00:02 |
| strangewarp | whoops | 00:02 |
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| joshcryer | kanzure, heh. I hate that you have a good memory. :P | 00:03 |
| joshcryer | s/hate/am jealous | 00:03 |
| kanzure | well, for every url that i remember, i lose an important skill | 00:04 |
| kanzure | like how to balance | 00:04 |
| kanzure | or how to talk without barfing | 00:04 |
| joshcryer | Haha | 00:06 |
| joshcryer | Also, you didn't know the URL by heart, I'm sure some scheme was used. | 00:06 |
| strangewarp | Wow, I may have genuinely had a false memory there - aside from the mostly justified criticism of Kurzweil I'm not seeing any of the tone or claims I remembered, in any posts I can google | 00:07 |
| Burn_school | strangewarp: Most of your memories are interpolated on demand from a small number of facts. | 00:07 |
| kanzure | there was an earlier one. | 00:07 |
| strangewarp | Burn_school, yep | 00:07 |
| Burn_school | "False" memory is just something that doesn't fit with other facts | 00:08 |
| joshcryer | strangewarp, this leaves quite a bad taste either way. | 00:10 |
| Burn_school | http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2009/02/09/futurists-make-me-cranky/ | 00:10 |
| Burn_school | ? | 00:10 |
| strangewarp | Burn_school, looked at that one, and I remember seeing it but I also remember that isn't the one I had in mind | 00:11 |
| * strangewarp continues googling.. | 00:12 | |
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| kanzure | futurists make everyone cranky | 00:12 |
| Burn_school | http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2010/08/17/ray-kurzweil-does-not-understa/ | 00:12 |
| Burn_school | http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2011/02/13/singularitarianism/ | 00:13 |
| kanzure | "futurism" isn't a particularly skilled profession | 00:13 |
| Burn_school | Wow. Sounds just like the Raelians, or Hercolubians, or Scientologists, or any of the modern New Age pseudosciences that appropriate a bit of jargon and blow it up into a huge mythology. Nice hyperbole there, though. Too bad the whole movement is empty of evidence. | 00:13 |
| Burn_school | " | 00:13 |
| joshcryer | Ugh. | 00:14 |
| kanzure | that's a reasonabel response to "futurists" trying to paint a picture like a religion | 00:14 |
| strangewarp | Oh, that might have been the paragraph that originally peeved me off, and then I inflated its length and prominence in subsequent rememberings, hmm | 00:14 |
| kanzure | because the critics are right- that's total nonsense | 00:14 |
| joshcryer | This discussion: H+ advocating human beings using search methods to find articles where an irrational atheist claims there is no evidence to back up the advancement of humans. | 00:15 |
| joshcryer | kanzure, sure, I call it the nerd rapture. | 00:16 |
| joshcryer | kanzure, it's still in a completely different classification than cults. | 00:16 |
| joshcryer | There are those with "irrational exuberance" and even "faith." For instance, I do find Kurzweil's inevitability argument to be too optimistic of a view, but his S-curves are still damn convincing. | 00:20 |
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| strangewarp | I think there is a difference between "faith" and "confidence" - confidence is based upon apparent evidence; faith is based upon the projection of moral desires | 00:24 |
| Utopiah | (very young but maybe still conventional) doctor said blood test and DNA test overall waste of money when you're not even 30y/o | 00:25 |
| joshcryer | That's fair enough strangewarp. | 00:29 |
| kanzure | Utopiah: depends on what you mean by "DNA test" | 00:30 |
| Utopiah | I meant 23andMe, he didnt know so Ill send him details | 00:30 |
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| kanzure | 23andme is the most popular snp provider, i sorta doubt his knowledge of snps if he isn't aware of their existence | 00:31 |
| Utopiah | yes I was a bit surprised | 00:31 |
| brownies | i read a Kurzweil book back when i was young | 00:31 |
| brownies | freaky stuff. really shiny book cover, though. | 00:31 |
| kanzure | brownies: me too. i sent him an angry email when i finished, telling him how much i hated him. | 00:32 |
| kanzure | he replied back offering a free copy of his next book | 00:32 |
| brownies | lmao | 00:32 |
| kanzure | well played. | 00:32 |
| * kanzure sleeps | 00:32 | |
| strangewarp | I read about 150 pages of The Singularity Is Near, in 2008 | 00:34 |
| strangewarp | I think Kurzweil is not ambitious enough | 00:34 |
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| strangewarp | If I could trade in all my Kurzweil, Jung, and Danto for what I paid for them, I'd be able to buy two Meeblip Micros, and that would be pretty good | 00:37 |
| joshcryer | http://www.sharenator.com/Graphic_evolution/ | 00:39 |
| joshcryer | What Kurzweil has is a pretty decent observation of technological advancement. | 00:39 |
| joshcryer | http://hothardware.com/News/Sergey-Brin-Demos-Google-Glasses-Prototype-on-The-Gavin-Newsom-Show-Suggests-Possible-Release-Next-Year/ | 00:46 |
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| joshcryer | One of Kurzweil's biggest misses was VR headsets. | 00:46 |
| strangewarp | I've also heard anecdotes that he's continually bending the ears of the rich and influential, which is probably good | 00:46 |
| joshcryer | Finally Google is attempting it but I think it'll be a few years yet. | 00:46 |
| strangewarp | ... Actually I think I might have heard that here at some point? I'm not sure | 00:46 |
| joshcryer | Apple has to do it to make it move culturally. | 00:47 |
| joshcryer | Or some other group or company that doesn't exist yet. (Maybe Open Source?) | 00:47 |
| joshcryer | When Gavin Newsom sees his picture you can tell he's witnessing something intriguing. | 00:47 |
| joshcryer | https://plus.google.com/photos/111626127367496192147/albums/5745849874061604161/5745850088505537234 | 00:58 |
| strangewarp | Oh rad | 01:05 |
| strangewarp | Another step towards full intimacy with the production of media, I suppose - put the camera on the face, instead of the hands | 01:06 |
| joshcryer | Cool Cryonics novel called The First Immortal has a guy in it who dies in an explosion, they make a genetic match for him (using sibblings, it's imperfect) and implant his brain with video recordings he made most of his life (he recorded everything). Cool concept. | 01:16 |
| joshcryer | s/sibblings/offspring | 01:17 |
| strangewarp | Hmmm, fun - if I died without cryonics, I would probably just cross my fingers for Big Universe brute-force resimulation | 01:21 |
| strangewarp | I was going to say I'd be uncomfortable with inaccurate copies beyond a certain threshold, but then I realized I've had memory and identity weirdness in my life, and not really had any terrible existential crises about it | 01:22 |
| joshcryer | I ain't taking the chance. ;) | 01:22 |
| joshcryer | I think we're going to die eventually, around the heat death. | 01:22 |
| joshcryer | I don't hold out hope for other future advancements that avoid that. | 01:22 |
| strangewarp | hmmm | 01:22 |
| joshcryer | I also don't think we'll surpass light speed. | 01:23 |
| joshcryer | Fortunately the local cluster is all aggregating toward the Great Attractor and we should have a nice super galaxy that lasts 200 trillion years. | 01:23 |
| strangewarp | Maybe the solution to the Fermi paradox is that this universe's physics are incredibly droll and restrictive compared to most other possible universes that are capable of supporting intelligent life, and every sufficiently advanced civilization auto-suicides in the hope of resimulation elsewhere in a Big Universe :P | 01:24 |
| joshcryer | (assuming proton decay is > 200 years and Higgs is stable, heh) | 01:25 |
| strangewarp | Sorry, I'm having too much fun with that idea | 01:25 |
| joshcryer | Don't worry, in an infinitely big universe with an infinitely long timeline, you will be infinitely reproduced randomly in every configuration. Sadly most configurations you pop and die, and your bodies are floating around out there. | 01:26 |
| strangewarp | Aye, the Boltzmann Brain problem | 01:27 |
| strangewarp | I've been thinking about it, and I'll say something if I ever have a good idea about it | 01:27 |
| strangewarp | It really depends on how common bulk resimulators are in comparison to Boltzmann brains, which of course is unknowable, and couldn't be estimated until the far future | 01:36 |
| strangewarp | That may be an argument for creating as many different people as possible after all, actually, even though it seems like the implication of Big Universe would be to merely ensure that everyone who already exists lives well | 01:40 |
| joshcryer | I think resimulation won't be possible if we can't create energy flow. | 01:40 |
| strangewarp | I don't know what you mean by "energy flow", but my perspective on this is materialist | 01:41 |
| joshcryer | Energy can't be created or destroyed, it just goes from being useful to not useful. ie, entropy. So you'd need anti-entropy or a way to create a new big bang or a way to skip into another universe (but I don't believe in multiple universes, for the record). | 01:43 |
| joshcryer | Within 100 billion years we will not have any galaxies visible to us, the local cluster will aggregate. | 01:45 |
| joshcryer | (and we'll be basically one big super galaxy) | 01:45 |
| joshcryer | 100 trillion years after that all will be left are black holes. | 01:46 |
| strangewarp | Oh yes, it may very well be that in the long-term, we in particular are screwed - and if the universe is conventional and not Big, that would be depressing | 01:47 |
| joshcryer | Good article about it: http://arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/9902189v1 | 01:49 |
| strangewarp | By the way, thank you - bouncing these ideas around in a venue with actual people has given me insight into a future arts project I may be doing about objectivity and modal realism | 01:49 |
| joshcryer | The most startling conclusion is that 100 billion years from now the new scientists will have no knowledge of the big bang, it will completely beyond their grasp (so it will have to be passed down from generation to generation and fall out of the realm of science). | 01:50 |
| joshcryer | Sweet. These same ideas are the topic of a book I'm writing. :) | 01:50 |
| strangewarp | No evidence for the Big Bang... hmm, that's funny | 01:51 |
| joshcryer | Ironically, I am linking a paper that poses a pessimistic view of eternal life, while earlier decrying "deathists." | 01:53 |
| joshcryer | But I think there's a tangible difference between becoming worm food in 100 years, give or take, and watching the lights go out on the entire goddamn universe, as it were. :) | 01:55 |
| strangewarp | absolutely agreed :p | 01:55 |
| joshcryer | (100 trillion years from now :P) | 01:55 |
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| gl00m | you guys heard about the psychographic profiling program they have at booz | 07:06 |
| gl00m | basicaly they are taking available social record for people and comparing them to the related set of genes and using that to base future marketing techniques | 07:06 |
| gl00m | according to them they can reasonably predict some peoples future purchases and want to send them advertising before they even realise they wanted the thing | 07:07 |
| chris_99 | haha | 07:07 |
| ThomasEgi | so.. best to spend a few minutes a day clicking random ads | 07:09 |
| gl00m | i saw collins speak when they dedicated his wing at mary baldwin | 07:11 |
| gl00m | nice to see the president taking interest in genomics by hireing him | 07:11 |
| gl00m | gavin newsome = christian bale | 07:12 |
| gl00m | klafka you ever meet someone named benny | 07:13 |
| ThomasEgi | benny.. sounds like a mix between ben and jerry. which makes me hungry | 07:14 |
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| kanzure | http://spectrum.ieee.org/computing/software/bitcoin-the-cryptoanarchists-answer-to-cash/0 | 07:37 |
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| _F7_ | blargh dental | 09:21 |
| _F7_ | when the hygenist asks "have you ever seen the movie marathon man?" | 09:22 |
| _F7_ | it's a particularly long procedure | 09:22 |
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| kanzure | chewing? how pedestrian | 09:37 |
| kanzure | haha | 09:37 |
| _F7_ | haha | 09:40 |
| _F7_ | what do I need to know about the bay area thing? | 09:41 |
| _F7_ | I figured I'd get an email or something | 09:41 |
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| kanzure | _F7_: there have been many emails | 09:57 |
| kanzure | _F7_: have you confirmed with kathleen? | 09:58 |
| _F7_ | I missed the one where it talks about airfare and kathleen | 09:58 |
| _F7_ | I will gmail | 09:58 |
| kanzure | _F7_: there's been lots of other emails though | 09:59 |
| kanzure | _F7_: you were originally contacted by the fbi, right? | 09:59 |
| _F7_ | jacob informed me after the FBI lunch thingy | 10:00 |
| _F7_ | said to talk to you | 10:01 |
| _F7_ | so I did that | 10:01 |
| kanzure | okay, and what ese | 10:01 |
| kanzure | *else | 10:01 |
| _F7_ | I've had no fbi contact since | 10:01 |
| kanzure | oh jeeze i screwed up then | 10:01 |
| kanzure | jacob said to talk to me? that's not how jacob got confirmation at all. | 10:01 |
| _F7_ | I said I hadn't been contacted about it, so jacob suggested talking to you | 10:02 |
| kanzure | wait, go over it again? | 10:02 |
| kanzure | have you ever received an email from the fbi in the last few months? | 10:02 |
| _F7_ | nope | 10:03 |
| kanzure | ok that's bad | 10:03 |
| kanzure | so the story is that they /probably/ have all the people they can afford, | 10:03 |
| kanzure | i will send out an email and cc you to check on that | 10:03 |
| _F7_ | okay, cool | 10:04 |
| kanzure | they also may or may not be open to people showing up on their own | 10:04 |
| kanzure | we sent out an email to them yesterday to check on that | 10:04 |
| kanzure | but i haven't heard back since | 10:04 |
| kanzure | also if you do intend to go, they want presentations emailed to them by tomorrow (june 1) | 10:05 |
| kanzure | i think jacob has you covered on that department though | 10:05 |
| _F7_ | If I miss it I miss it, I'm pretty used to things Jacob informs me of having fatal planning flaws | 10:05 |
| kanzure | so, if jacob is going, he's going to have a hotel room with two beds, so you could probably just show up with him | 10:05 |
| kanzure | the airfare is like $90 on jetblue | 10:06 |
| _F7_ | nice | 10:06 |
| kanzure | _F7_: for what it's worth, i think it would be a lot more fun if you showed up, haha | 10:07 |
| _F7_ | okay, I'll look at jetblue | 10:08 |
| _F7_ | I'll probably spellcheck jacob's presentation too, I have no idea what he's doing | 10:09 |
| kanzure | _F7_: i've sent out an email to you and jojack | 10:10 |
| kanzure | _F7_: sorry about all that. i was under the assumption that you were contacted by /them/ last month, not just me and jacob. | 10:13 |
| _F7_ | just texted jacob, trying to get in the loop | 10:14 |
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| kanzure | hi LionClan | 10:14 |
| LionClan | hi kanzure | 10:15 |
| LionClan | I'm tracking NonFish | 10:15 |
| LionClan | is he active? | 10:15 |
| kanzure | sorta kinda | 10:15 |
| kanzure | i think he might be dying from some muscular disorder | 10:16 |
| kanzure | not sure | 10:16 |
| LionClan | well the phone doesn't answer | 10:17 |
| LionClan | word is relayed he's ok | 10:19 |
| LionClan | patient dl589.2 has the same muscular disorder, it is a failure to create dystrophin, resulting in loss of cell wall solidity, caused in their case by a deletion of exons 51-55 on the 78 exon long gene that governs the creation of dystrophin | 10:24 |
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| Steel2_ | uhauls are fucking expensive | 10:26 |
| kanzure | don't you have to be some minimum age, like 29, to rent one? | 10:26 |
| kanzure | anyway, i think most people just opt to sell everything | 10:27 |
| Mokbortolan_1 | Steel2: yeah, try the other one, they're a little cheaper | 10:27 |
| _F7_ | cool, I got the email. I'm going to go home, take some iburprofen, and help jacob with his presentation | 10:27 |
| Mokbortolan_1 | can't remember the name atm, starts with a P I think | 10:27 |
| _F7_ | do I need to RSVP? with whom? | 10:28 |
| kanzure | _F7_: yes, you need to rsvp with kathleen strong, joseph jackson, and nathan head | 10:29 |
| kanzure | kathleen carley <kathleen.carley@ic.fbi.gov> | 10:29 |
| kanzure | nathan head <nathaniel.head@ic.fbi.gov> | 10:29 |
| kanzure | joseph jackson <joseph.jackson@gmail.com> | 10:29 |
| _F7_ | cool. I just tell them I'll be there? | 10:31 |
| kanzure | hmm no | 10:31 |
| _F7_ | what specifically goes into wildblue? I know there's stuff going on afterwards. | 10:31 |
| _F7_ | I don't want to be too late/early for arriving/going | 10:32 |
| kanzure | say something along hte lines of, "I was told by Bryan and Joseph that I can attend the FBI/DIYbio workshop if I am in San Francisco on those dates? I'll be presenting with Jacob, blah blah blah" | 10:32 |
| kanzure | you should also ask them about the exact dates | 10:32 |
| kanzure | there's also this: http://startupscience.eventbrite.com/ | 10:32 |
| _F7_ | jacob is forwarding details. I'm going to pop offline, take some ibuprofen, and pop back on later | 10:33 |
| _F7_ | thanks | 10:33 |
| Steel2_ | penske is actually more expensive | 10:34 |
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| nmz787 | Steel2_ are you looking at trucks or trailers? | 10:43 |
| Steel2_ | trucks | 10:43 |
| Steel2_ | II could have dangerously crammed everything into a 14 | 10:43 |
| Steel2_ | so I got a 17 | 10:43 |
| Steel2_ | then they upgraded me to a 20 | 10:43 |
| Steel2_ | welp. | 10:43 |
| kanzure | yep i'm going to stick with my recommended approach of "sell everything" and/or "burn everything" | 10:44 |
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| Steel2_ | good furniture/parents who nag if I get rid of good furniture/dad is helping me move | 10:44 |
| kanzure | oh you're a furniture person | 10:45 |
| kanzure | i see. | 10:45 |
| Steel2_ | yup | 10:45 |
| Steel2_ | nice desk, coffeetable, bookshelves | 10:45 |
| nmz787 | if i move from NY to SF i'm renting a 6" x 12" uhaul trailer and sticking that on the back of my chevy blazer | 10:45 |
| nmz787 | should avoid the burn/sell | 10:45 |
| Steel2_ | deep freezer, more bookshelves, 2 bureaus, tv stand... | 10:46 |
| Steel2_ | fucktons of books | 10:46 |
| nmz787 | i def dont want to burn/sell my 'scopes, kV gel electrophoresis power supply, etc! | 10:46 |
| Steel2_ | oh, right, an armoir | 10:46 |
| nmz787 | yes, fucktons of books | 10:46 |
| nmz787 | great for burning | 10:46 |
| ThomasEgi | hm... how many tons are one fuckton? | 10:46 |
| kanzure | http://1dollarscan.com/ | 10:46 |
| Mariu | LOL | 10:47 |
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| ThomasEgi | hm... sending in some documents with "CLASSIFIED" all over it | 10:53 |
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| nmz787 | kanzure: any reviews? | 11:05 |
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| kanzure | nmz787: reviews?? | 11:08 |
| kanzure | the presentation is still upcoming, sorry | 11:08 |
| kanzure | it will be a few hours | 11:08 |
| kanzure | also i'd be happy to incorporate hwatever you have | 11:08 |
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| chris_99 | what's your presentation on kanzure ? | 11:20 |
| kanzure | just informing some fbi agents and the department of defense about diy dna synthesis | 11:20 |
| chris_99 | ooh cool | 11:21 |
| chris_99 | will you put your presentation online? | 11:21 |
| kanzure | sure why not.. it's just 10 slides though, it's not that big of a deal | 11:23 |
| chris_99 | :) | 11:24 |
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| _F7_ | jetblue is being confusing | 12:16 |
| _F7_ | It doesn't seem to be capable of getting an arrival for california | 12:17 |
| kanzure | awesome | 12:22 |
| kanzure | haha you can use whatever airline you like, i just recall getting stupid cheap $90 flights from them | 12:23 |
| kanzure | this might have been a marketing ploy, in which case i now hate them | 12:23 |
| Mokbortolan_1 | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqp3bWqxDsc | 12:32 |
| Mokbortolan_1 | kinect mapping | 12:32 |
| Mokbortolan_1 | (in color) | 12:32 |
| _F7_ | Should I arrive on the 11th and leave on the 15th? | 12:42 |
| _F7_ | wait wtf that's core weekday | 12:43 |
| _F7_ | it doesn't hurt me to stay an extra day or two | 12:43 |
| _F7_ | jacob is going to be there from 8th to 18th | 12:43 |
| kanzure | you should consider staying for the 16th to attend jojack's startupscience event | 12:44 |
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| kanzure | attendees are listed here: http://startupscience.eventbrite.com/ | 12:45 |
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| kanzure | oh sorry. june 15. | 12:45 |
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| kanzure | JayDugger1: who is ken burnside? | 12:51 |
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| kanzure | "But even more importantly, there is clearly a demand for them and the companies offering them pay for costly advertising and presumably make good money. So now, the REALLY interesting question arises, "Why do these companies use such "lousy" sensing technology? Why don't they try to capture cardiac arrest - not just in the home, but everywhere?"" | 13:37 |
| kanzure | " This will probably seem regrettably arrogant, but I think I'm uniquely positioned to give an answer to that question. And the answer is: "Because detecting cardiac arrest has no added benefit whatsoever."" | 13:37 |
| kanzure | "The time from the onset of cardiac arrest to the possibility of successful resuscitation without significant brain damage is 4-6 minutes - tops. Truth to tell, 5 minutes is probably a very solid number. Short of an implanted unit (in which case you'd have a defibrillator implanted, as well), it will always be necessary to verify an alarm state, and then there are the logistics of getting the paramedical team to the patient in 5 minutes, or less." | 13:37 |
| kanzure | "That may superficially seem doable if you look at the raw response time numbers, but in a situation of an arrest where the person is in a locked home alone, that time quickly balloons, because there is no mechanism in place for paramedics to break down the door to gain entry. And even if there were, the time spent in doing so, locating the patient, and starting the rescue efforts would almost invariably exceed 5 minutes." | 13:37 |
| kanzure | "But, even if the paramedics could be on site in 5 minutes and starting rescued efforts (a tall order!) the overall save rate is very, very low. It is so low, that were CPR to be proposed today with a full understanding of the save rate, it would not pass muster and the money would go elsewhere in the healthcare system." | 13:37 |
| kanzure | "However, as it is, there is currently no benefit to knowing that cardiac arrest has occurred in an out of hospital situation.And, I have news for you, there is damn little benefit to knowing it has occurred in-hospital, either. In fact, the era of the Code Team has largely passed, although it will take awhile for the TV medical shows to catch up with this change." | 13:37 |
| kanzure | "In place of the Code Team is the Medical Emergency Team (MET). The MET replaced the Code Team because the salvage rate in Code Blues was so low as to be ridiculous (2-4%)." | 13:38 |
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| yashgaroth | ah crap do I need to present something to be allowed to go | 13:38 |
| kanzure | "There are already good solutions on the market to detect cardiac arrest in extremely high risk patients, and the best of these are the wearable external (WED) or implantable defibrillators (ID) that also treat it immediately.Nobody cares if you have a cardiac arrest that is not successfully managed by an ID or WED, because if you can't be saved with an immediate shock, you will not be saved by a subsequent paramedical response" | 13:40 |
| kanzure | yashgaroth: just put your myostatin stuff into a 10 slide powerpoint and email it to them | 13:40 |
| yashgaroth | I thought the deadline was tomorrow? that sounds like a challenge! | 13:41 |
| kanzure | also while doing it realize that (1) lots of diybio/diytanshumanism people will be listening, so would enjoy lots of suggestions or ideas, and (2) the department of defense (military), fbi, homeland security and other agencies will be wondering "oh shit how do i deal with this when i go up against a 300 pound 6 foot 9 inches bodybuilder" | 13:41 |
| yashgaroth | haha very well | 13:42 |
| kanzure | that's probably not the actual question they would ask | 13:42 |
| kanzure | but for instance, one agent was surprised last year to learn what a CO2 tank looked like | 13:43 |
| kanzure | "i would have totally called a bomb squad on that" | 13:43 |
| yashgaroth | haha | 13:44 |
| yashgaroth | k well my interview got pushed to tomorrow so I'll grab some stims and get cracking | 13:44 |
| kanzure | also do mine, thanks | 13:44 |
| kanzure | yashgaroth: i sent you some emails about making sure you have talked with kathleen/nathan to confirm your attendance | 13:45 |
| yashgaroth | right, wasn't sure if I need to a attach a ppt file with that, or just the promise of one | 13:46 |
| eudoxia_ | oh man I thought hospitals still used codes ;_; | 13:46 |
| kanzure | yashgaroth: you should probably attach a ppt, but i'm sure they will allow revisions | 13:47 |
| kanzure | i'm also sure that if you are late by a day, they won't murder you | 13:48 |
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| yashgaroth | hmm..."Dear Agents,"? or just "Agents" | 14:30 |
| yashgaroth | I'm probably overthinking it | 14:31 |
| kanzure | uhh | 14:32 |
| kanzure | how about neither | 14:32 |
| yashgaroth | yeah that's probably the best option | 14:32 |
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| kanzure | "We have just received the news that Judge Alsup ruled against Oracle, finding that APIs are not subject to copyright protection. We will have the full ruling shortly." | 14:38 |
| kanzure | hehehe | 14:38 |
| kanzure | copy all ze APIs! | 14:38 |
| kanzure | ruling is over here: | 14:39 |
| kanzure | http://www.scribd.com/zdnetrachel/d/95477548-Oracle-v-Google-Order-Regarding-Copyrightability-of-APIs | 14:39 |
| kanzure | with apologies for linking to scribd :( | 14:39 |
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| chris_99 | anyone know a way to produce amylase | 14:58 |
| yashgaroth | spit onto an affinity column | 14:58 |
| chris_99 | heh, without spitting | 14:59 |
| yashgaroth | any specific variant of amylase? | 15:01 |
| chris_99 | alpha or beta | 15:01 |
| yashgaroth | well I guess you can just overexpress it in yeast | 15:04 |
| brownies | kanzure: ooh, great news | 15:06 |
| kanzure | brownies: you found your belly button? | 15:07 |
| kanzure | oh you mean the judgement. yeah, i'm reading it now. | 15:07 |
| kanzure | he's seriously teaching his readers about language grammar? heh | 15:08 |
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| roksprok | any lawyer types around here? | 15:33 |
| kanzure | i owe my first born to lawyers, does that count? | 15:39 |
| yashgaroth | I advide you to sue, roksprok | 15:40 |
| yashgaroth | s* | 15:40 |
| roksprok | yashgaroth: it is to prevent me from being sued | 15:40 |
| kanzure | let's hear it | 15:40 |
| roksprok | so i have a contract on an hourly basis with company A | 15:40 |
| roksprok | relevant part: | 15:40 |
| roksprok | 5.2 Pre-existing Obligations. Consultant represents and warrants that | 15:41 |
| roksprok | Consultant has no pre-existing obligations or commitments (and will not assume or otherwise | 15:41 |
| roksprok | undertake any obligations or commitments) that would be in conflict or inconsistent with, or that | 15:41 |
| roksprok | would hinder Consultant’s performance of its obligations under this Agreement | 15:41 |
| kanzure | that usually refers to things like "i signed a non-compete, and i'm not allowed to work for this company" | 15:41 |
| roksprok | does this prevent me from taking a part time job with company b? | 15:41 |
| roksprok | ok so obligations or commitments doesn't mean 'another job' | 15:42 |
| kanzure | it depends on what the obligations are in the contract | 15:42 |
| kanzure | brownies: ping? | 15:43 |
| kanzure | i mean, personally, i would never sign anything that precludes me from working as much as i possibly can | 15:44 |
| brownies | reading | 15:44 |
| yashgaroth | can't you just ask company A if they'd theoretically be okay with it | 15:44 |
| roksprok | i don't really see any...i mean its all normalish 'we own your intellectual property' but every line like that includes 'that you make while performing services in relation with this contract' | 15:44 |
| brownies | it does not, strictly speaking, although that's more strongly worded than i like when i write the contract | 15:44 |
| kanzure | yashgaroth: i think that's the best approach | 15:45 |
| brownies | on the other hand i'm very paranoid about this stuff; nothing in there strikes me as too far from normal | 15:45 |
| kanzure | roksprok: if your relationship with the company that you signed that contract with is such that you think they would get furious and sue you for making money, then you should proceed to drop them | 15:45 |
| kanzure | roksprok: can we see the full contract? | 15:46 |
| roksprok | kanzure: i guess honestly the worst that would happen is they fire me.... | 15:46 |
| yashgaroth | if they fire you for asking a question about your contract, then fuck 'em | 15:46 |
| kanzure | yeah, no kidding | 15:47 |
| roksprok | yea 1 sec | 15:47 |
| yashgaroth | is it a full-time position? if it's not, they can't expect you not to work elsewhere as well | 15:47 |
| roksprok | http://pastebin.com/KEBsGpdv | 15:48 |
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| roksprok | yashgaroth: yea it is | 15:49 |
| kanzure | however, you do have some tricky issues to navigate if the other business is in the same exact industry doing the same exact work | 15:49 |
| kanzure | hahaha 1.2 is ridiculous | 15:49 |
| brownies | 1.2? | 15:50 |
| brownies | what's wrong with 1.2 o.O | 15:50 |
| kanzure | "Consultant will perform the consulting services | 15:50 |
| kanzure | specified in each Statement of Work" | 15:50 |
| roksprok | kanzure: they are not | 15:50 |
| brownies | ...yes? | 15:50 |
| kanzure | that's not contracting/consulting... that's normal employment | 15:50 |
| nmz787 | kanzure: you make any slides? | 15:50 |
| kanzure | nmz787: i have a few more things to do today, i'm sorry | 15:50 |
| kanzure | nmz787: i really have set aside the time though, i'm not putting it off :P | 15:51 |
| nmz787 | so will you do any today or wait til tomorrow? | 15:51 |
| kanzure | today | 15:51 |
| roksprok | and the other place would know i have a job, so would ideally be flexible | 15:51 |
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| brownies | don't quote me on this, but from everything i've heard there's no such thing as an enforceable non-compete in California | 15:52 |
| brownies | re: 5.1 | 15:52 |
| kanzure | ehh i guess this changes 1.2 sorta-- | 15:52 |
| kanzure | "Consultant will perform the Services under the general direction of Company, but Consultant | 15:52 |
| roksprok | kanzure: does 'statement of work' mean they give me a list of things to do | 15:52 |
| kanzure | will determine, in Consultant’s sole discretion, the manner and means by which the Services are | 15:52 |
| kanzure | accomplished" | 15:52 |
| kanzure | heh, well.. it depends on how you operate man | 15:53 |
| kanzure | like, the way i like to do things is i tell them what i'm going to do, and why they need me tod o it | 15:53 |
| kanzure | *do it | 15:53 |
| brownies | that's all boilerplate man | 15:54 |
| brownies | i read it; there's nothing particularly egregious here | 15:54 |
| roksprok | kanzure: i think the consulting you do is on a slightly hire level | 15:54 |
| kanzure | brownies: it might be indicative of how they operate as a company | 15:54 |
| roksprok | higher | 15:54 |
| kanzure | brownies: i.e. might be a slaveshop | 15:54 |
| brownies | i prefer to shove my version onto the company, but oftentimes if the company is presenting their version of a contract it will be worded slightly in their favor, like this one is | 15:55 |
| brownies | standard practice | 15:55 |
| kanzure | 2.3 is important to take note of | 15:55 |
| brownies | that said, i'm not your lawyer/accountant/dentist/etc. | 15:55 |
| brownies | yea 2.3 is new but i guess it's reasonable. | 15:55 |
| roksprok | brownies: so if i said 'can i have friday off' and they said 'sure' i could go work someplace and they wouldn't sue me | 15:55 |
| brownies | you're not an employee; you don't ask for their direction on when/where/how to work... | 15:56 |
| kanzure | roksprok: 2.3 and the indemnification clauses are highly in the company's favor | 15:56 |
| kanzure | 2.3 is a smart thing to do for yourself in general | 15:56 |
| roksprok | does health insurance count? | 15:57 |
| brownies | having an indemnification clause is standard practice | 15:57 |
| kanzure | one indemnification clause i signed once put the maximum damages at like "not more than the amount paid to consultant" or something | 15:57 |
| brownies | true. | 15:57 |
| brownies | roksprok: no, i think liability insurance is different. | 15:57 |
| kanzure | liability insurance is definitely not health insurance | 15:57 |
| roksprok | but i'm liable only for injuries to myself....right? | 15:58 |
| kanzure | btw if this is a job for <$20/hour, getting liability insurance will probably be very costly? :P | 15:58 |
| kanzure | no, you're liable for defective software | 15:58 |
| kanzure | "Consultant will indemnify and hold harmless Company from and against all claims, damages, losses and expenses, including court costs and reasonable attorneys’ fees, arising out of ..." | 15:59 |
| roksprok | well it will be internal stuff | 15:59 |
| kanzure | "any action by a third party against Company that is based on a claim that any Services, the results of any Services (including any Innovations), or Company’s use thereof, infringe, misappropriate or violate a third party’s Intellectual Property Rights;" | 15:59 |
| brownies | yeah, read the contract, man | 15:59 |
| kanzure | "any action by a third party against Company that is based on any negligent act or omission or willful conduct of Consultant and that results in: (a) bodily injury, sickness, disease or death; (b) injury or destruction to tangible or intangible property (including computer programs and data) or any loss of use resulting therefrom; or (c) the violation of any statute, ordinance, or regulation." | 16:00 |
| kanzure | "negligent act of omission" | 16:00 |
| kanzure | "intangible property" (software, data) | 16:00 |
| brownies | well, i mean, if you create a device for them that infringes on a patent and electrocutes someone, then it's reasonable to hold you liable for both things. -_- | 16:00 |
| kanzure | *or omission | 16:00 |
| brownies | i'm assuming this is for your internship, btw, so it does feel overall like they are just being cheap | 16:01 |
| roksprok | well its all internal stuff, so i mean its not like it has the potential to delete anyone's data or anything | 16:01 |
| brownies | they should just hire you as a damn employee | 16:01 |
| kanzure | roksprok: how much are they offering to pay you? | 16:01 |
| roksprok | brownies: yea, it is.... | 16:01 |
| roksprok | 20/hr | 16:01 |
| kanzure | ok this is over the top for 20/hour | 16:01 |
| kanzure | i'm not sure about professional liability coverage at $20/hour | 16:01 |
| brownies | 20/hr is high for an internship, at least. | 16:02 |
| kanzure | brownies: well his standards have at least improved from $0/hour to $20/hour | 16:02 |
| brownies | big improvement. congrats on that :) | 16:02 |
| kanzure | so that's an infinite improvement or something | 16:02 |
| roksprok | brownies: thanks for all your help | 16:02 |
| roksprok | and kanzure | 16:02 |
| kanzure | roksprok: talk with a contract lawyer | 16:02 |
| kanzure | call one up, talk with his assistant, say you're new to this, you have an offer and a contract, and would like to spend an hour talking about it | 16:03 |
| kanzure | they will usually give you that hour for free | 16:03 |
| kanzure | and plus, if the company stops paying you, you have your go-to guy to help you fix the problem | 16:03 |
| roksprok | ok i will do that | 16:04 |
| roksprok | actually i may just ask a friend's dad or something | 16:04 |
| kanzure | "ompany’s payment obligation will be expressly subject to Consultant’s completion of such milestones to Company’s reasonable satisfaction." | 16:04 |
| roksprok | would 'contract law' or 'employment law' be the right keyword | 16:04 |
| kanzure | it doesn't matter because either of those types of people will have a long rollodex of people to recommend to you | 16:05 |
| kanzure | "Subject to the foregoing, Company will pay each invoice submitted by Consultant within thirty (30) days following receipt thereof." | 16:05 |
| brownies | bonus, they'll also know how to spell rolodex! | 16:05 |
| kanzure | eww net 30 :) | 16:05 |
| kanzure | brownies: this is why my law firm was doomed to failure | 16:05 |
| brownies | anyway, we're not lawyers, go get some real advice! | 16:06 |
| kanzure | yes. | 16:06 |
| kanzure | is this an internship btw? | 16:06 |
| kanzure | or are they just cheap | 16:06 |
| roksprok | will do....yea it is | 16:06 |
| brownies | kanzure: also because you just kept saying "Esquire" at the end of random sentences. | 16:06 |
| roksprok | *random other question* is there a way to practice coding interviews without doing coding interviews? like a code-against-the-clock game or something | 16:08 |
| kanzure | fizz buzz. | 16:09 |
| kanzure | if you can't do that, i will break your legs. | 16:09 |
| kanzure | Write a program that prints the numbers from 1 to 100. But for multiples of three print "Fizz" instead of the number and for the multiples of five print "Buzz". For numbers which are multiples of both three and five print "FizzBuzz". | 16:09 |
| kanzure | also: why are you doing an internship? | 16:10 |
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| roksprok | is the answer basically 'if loops...if loops everywhere'? | 16:11 |
| kanzure | not quite | 16:11 |
| yashgaroth | you only need one if loop | 16:11 |
| kanzure | you should write it out and show me so i can yell at you | 16:11 |
| yashgaroth | errr, for loop, rather | 16:11 |
| kanzure | roksprok: also i feel it's important to remind you that the company will expect you to send an invoice to get paid | 16:12 |
| roksprok | and i know there are questions, but is there like a codeacademy type thing where it would say do that then start a count down and give me stats on x% of people solved it faster than you | 16:12 |
| kanzure | brownies: i've never bothered to try, but i wonder what would happen if you submit invoices early, in expectation of net 30 | 16:12 |
| kanzure | roksprok: not really. udacity absolutely sucks. | 16:12 |
| kanzure | i've been helping someone out with udacity's python assignments, and it's just atrocious. | 16:12 |
| kanzure | they don't go over the differences between "print" and "return" | 16:13 |
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| kanzure | roksprok: i think this would be a valuable thing for you to go over.. | 16:15 |
| kanzure | http://ruby.railstutorial.org/ruby-on-rails-tutorial-book#top | 16:15 |
| kanzure | it's not exactly programming straight up, but chances are you could use the experience with that sort of environment | 16:15 |
| roksprok | even with no ruby knowledge? | 16:16 |
| kanzure | hrmm | 16:16 |
| kanzure | ok that's right, i forgot that you're python-centric | 16:17 |
| kanzure | you shouldn't be particularly concerned with how fast you can solve things.. i mean, fizzbuzz should not take you an hour, but if it takes you 15 minutes and it takes everyone else 5, it's not super important.. | 16:19 |
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| roksprok | speaking of fizzbuzz, not sure if you actually wanted to see it, if not disregard: http://pastebin.com/F67PeV6s | 16:20 |
| roksprok | not sure how to do it in less than 3 if loops? | 16:22 |
| brownies | roksprok: i think you're looking for TopCoder | 16:24 |
| brownies | if you spend too long with silicon valley mouthbreathers you might start believing that building a web app is the pinnacle of software engineering. | 16:24 |
| brownies | project Euler would also be good. | 16:25 |
| brownies | kanzure: they pay when they pay, from what i've found. | 16:25 |
| brownies | the good ones pay on time and follow up with me, so i keep working with them... the bad ones don't, so i stop working with them. | 16:25 |
| roksprok | brownies: topcoder looks very good....project euler is nice but i'd kind of like a timed thing....i tend to get a bit flustered in interviews and would like to work on it | 16:26 |
| kanzure | roksprok: btw, don't call them if loops :P | 16:28 |
| kanzure | they are just if statements, or conditionals | 16:28 |
| kanzure | the for is a loop | 16:28 |
| kanzure | second, line 4 and 6 are broken | 16:28 |
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| kanzure | brownies: right, i just don't know if he's prepared for the agony of the 30 day wait ;) | 16:29 |
| kanzure | some companies have absolutely no problem about waiting the maximum amount of time allowed | 16:30 |
| roksprok | kanzure: elif? | 16:30 |
| yashgaroth | roksprok, won't that print 'fizzbuzzfizzbuzz' for 15? | 16:31 |
| kanzure | yashgaroth: hey that's not fair, he just corrected himself.. | 16:31 |
| yashgaroth | also doesn't that else only depend on the one previous if()? I'm not sure | 16:31 |
| kanzure | yes | 16:31 |
| roksprok | 1 if 2 elif | 16:31 |
| roksprok | thanks re: statements/conditionals | 16:33 |
| kanzure | yep. | 16:33 |
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| kanzure | "if statement", "for statement", "for loop", .. best to call it a for loop really | 16:33 |
| kanzure | but it's definitely never an "if loop" | 16:33 |
| yashgaroth | if you moved that first if() down to the bottom and changed the ==s to !=s, that was my approach, but I thought there'd be a method where you don't have to reference i two more times | 16:33 |
| yashgaroth | err, and set that if() to print i | 16:34 |
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| kanzure | yashgaroth: how's your programming knowledge? | 16:37 |
| yashgaroth | I know the principles, I guess...loops, lists, arrays, functions | 16:37 |
| yashgaroth | did c++ in high school and java in uni | 16:39 |
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| yashgaroth | just can't decide between perl and python to learn first | 16:43 |
| kanzure | python. | 16:43 |
| kanzure | perl is nice and efficient but not a beginner's best friend | 16:43 |
| kanzure | s/nice/usually ugly but nice once you tame it | 16:44 |
| yashgaroth | heh fair enough | 16:44 |
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| kanzure | yashgaroth: just saw your email, clearly you have taken the easy way out ("i can make it tomorrow") | 16:45 |
| roksprok | i would second python, it has really good documentation that made things a lot easier to learn | 16:45 |
| yashgaroth | I realized after sending that they won't be replying until tomorrow anyway :/ | 16:46 |
| kanzure | yashgaroth: timezones? | 16:46 |
| yashgaroth | and strict federal working hours | 16:46 |
| kanzure | 1 to 2 pm? | 16:47 |
| brownies | perl exists | 16:47 |
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| brownies | i wouldn't add any of kanzure's adjectives to it though | 16:47 |
| kanzure | well, we have a few perl lovers in here | 16:47 |
| kanzure | so i was trying to be politically correct | 16:47 |
| kanzure | note: the perl lovers can permaban me if i'm not careful | 16:48 |
| yashgaroth | all else being equal, I'd go with python since it looks more readable, but it seems like perl is the standard for a lot of the current bioinfo architecture | 16:48 |
| roksprok | would that result in ###hplusroadmap? | 16:48 |
| kanzure | "#hplusroadmap" was destroyed by a freenode sysop because- apparently- subject channels or groups need to exist in "##" channels | 16:49 |
| kanzure | something about "freenode policy" | 16:49 |
| roksprok | yashgaroth: biopython is very good | 16:49 |
| kanzure | yashgaroth: biopython | 16:49 |
| kanzure | damn it | 16:49 |
| kanzure | there are also some silly perl-python bridges that you should never use, but you could | 16:50 |
| yashgaroth | the other bonus is that pymol exists, while perlmol...oh it does technically exist | 16:51 |
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| roksprok | i am out, thanks to everyone for the advice/conversation/if loops don't exist....yashgaroth also python seems to be on the way up, so new resources will come online all the time, and stuff like biopython will keep being maintained and improved | 16:52 |
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| kanzure | perl is also actively maintained, so that's not fair :p | 16:53 |
| kanzure | cpan still dwarfs pypi i think | 16:53 |
| kanzure | and rubygems (possibly. i haven't counted.) | 16:53 |
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| strangewarp | I own a Programming Perl book, from when I aspired to be a Serious Programmer | 16:54 |
| strangewarp | That aspiration left me in a discrete mathematics class | 16:54 |
| kanzure | nothing wrong with that | 16:54 |
| strangewarp | Now I am happy | 16:54 |
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| brownies | math++ | 17:00 |
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| ParahSailin | seconded on biopython | 17:49 |
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| kanzure | "A musical umbrella that converts raindrops into 8bit music" | 18:28 |
| JayDugger1 | That's precious. | 18:30 |
| Mariu | ! | 18:31 |
| Mariu | epic | 18:31 |
| strangewarp | Bet it's connected to a chipsounds VST | 18:31 |
| JayDugger1 | Links | 18:33 |
| JayDugger1 | http://nukaco.la/projects.html | 18:33 |
| JayDugger1 | They took two hours to find a watering can? | 18:34 |
| JayDugger1 | Garden hose, anyone? | 18:34 |
| JayDugger1 | Collander and pitcher? | 18:34 |
| JayDugger1 | http://wiki.musichackday.org/index.php?title=Main_Page | 18:35 |
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| kanzure | i was trying out echonest's api a few weeks ago | 18:41 |
| kanzure | but their terms are a bit restricting | 18:41 |
| kanzure | if you want to make any music-related software that uses libraries or playlist, your only option is to make something illicit and not really connected to your name :\ | 18:41 |
| kanzure | *playlists | 18:41 |
| JayDugger1 | Why? I really don't know. | 18:41 |
| kanzure | erm, that was all re: musichackday | 18:41 |
| kanzure | JayDugger1: licensing costs | 18:42 |
| JayDugger1 | Got it. | 18:42 |
| kanzure | http://www.mndigital.com/services/content-fulfillment.html | 18:42 |
| JayDugger1 | At least those people recognize the value of metadata. | 18:43 |
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| strangewarp | Oh, impressive, they hooked it up to LSDJ for non-VST sounds then | 19:10 |
| strangewarp | Wait, no, derp. They didn't. That's what I get for skimming | 19:11 |
| kanzure | a proper punishment for skimming will be the removal of one (1) eyeball | 19:14 |
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| JayDugger1 | What mercy! | 19:20 |
| JayDugger1 | You could go get an eyeball from any mammal or fish, and even some inveterbrates. | 19:21 |
| JayDugger1 | invertebrates, rather | 19:22 |
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| Steel2 | AlonzoTG, you around? | 21:56 |
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| kanzure | nmz787: still cooking | 22:22 |
| nmz787 | ok | 22:25 |
| nmz787 | i have only been brainstormin | 22:25 |
| Mokbortolan_1 | those aren't tears | 22:36 |
| Mokbortolan_1 | I'm just having a brainstorm | 22:36 |
| kanzure | what are those tripod robots are called that have an arm suspended from the top and can move it to any point in xyz with 3 actuators? | 23:10 |
| kanzure | *robots called | 23:11 |
| kanzure | like http://www.keba.com/typo3temp/pics/04e4431c74.png | 23:11 |
| kanzure | delta robot? | 23:12 |
| kanzure | http://surveys.peerproduction.net/2012/05/manufacturing-in-motion/ | 23:13 |
| kanzure | is jarkko's 3d printing survey, summarized | 23:13 |
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| --- Log closed Fri Jun 01 00:00:27 2012 | ||
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