| --- Log opened Mon Jul 09 00:00:03 2012 | ||
| jrayhawk | he's missing the requisite HR-friendly giant-searchable-list-of-vaguely-applicable-technology-buzzwords | 00:03 |
|---|---|---|
| kanzure | oh shit! | 00:07 |
| kanzure | i knew i forgot something | 00:07 |
| kanzure | "Here is a tag cloud of every technology I have ever talked about" | 00:07 |
| kanzure | congratulations, i'm now an expert on oracle/g2 | 00:08 |
| kanzure | Moin Ahmad <moin.ahmad@oracle.com>: [singularity summit, singularity, singularity institute, conferences] | 00:08 |
| kanzure | Ronny Fehling <ronny.fehling@oracle.com>: [singularity summit, singularity, singularity institute, conferences] | 00:08 |
| kanzure | hmmm | 00:08 |
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| foucist | kanzure: sponsored by george church, the NRA, and oracle | 01:01 |
| * Mokbortolan_ creates a new subreddit and channel, "neuromod". | 01:09 | |
| Mokbortolan_ | now all need is an fMRI | 01:09 |
| kanzure | can't you just co-opt this channel instead? | 01:09 |
| kanzure | well, i guess i don't enjoy redditors in here | 01:09 |
| Mokbortolan_ | :( | 01:09 |
| kanzure | so maybe i should thank you instead? | 01:10 |
| kanzure | not sure | 01:10 |
| kanzure | i am generally against fragmentation though | 01:10 |
| Mokbortolan_ | yeah, I guess it does kind if fit within H+ | 01:10 |
| Mokbortolan_ | though, I feel like discussion here tends toward the theoretical rather than the practical | 01:10 |
| kanzure | feel free to change that | 01:11 |
| Mokbortolan_ | is there an associated forum, btw? | 01:11 |
| kanzure | hell no | 01:11 |
| Mokbortolan_ | :p | 01:11 |
| kanzure | there was a mailing list in 2007-2009 but nobody has asked for it back | 01:11 |
| Mokbortolan_ | I like the reddit format | 01:11 |
| Mokbortolan_ | much better than "standard" forums, IMO | 01:11 |
| Mokbortolan_ | I mean, the layout and functionality | 01:12 |
| kanzure | people just want interfaces that they are used to | 01:12 |
| kanzure | this is why nobody understands any wiki other than mediawiki | 01:12 |
| kanzure | or any forum other than phpbb | 01:12 |
| Mokbortolan_ | I feel claustrophobia nagging at me whenever I'm in a phpbb now | 01:12 |
| kanzure | feel free to ban anyone in here who is insufficiently practical | 01:13 |
| Mokbortolan_ | so, the idea is to use technologies like tMS and tDCS in conjunction with techniques like "games" and hypnosis to permanently strengthen particular brain regions | 01:14 |
| Mokbortolan_ | at least, that's my idea | 01:14 |
| Mokbortolan_ | integrative electronics and surgical modifications are neat, but impractical at the moment | 01:14 |
| kanzure | tms isn't specific enough to target particular brain regions | 01:15 |
| Mokbortolan_ | indeed | 01:15 |
| kanzure | and nobody has developed a method for specific brain region targetting with tdcs | 01:15 |
| kanzure | i suggest ultrasound, but i think i've mentioned this before and i think you ignored me then too | 01:15 |
| Mokbortolan_ | but with hypnosis/practice, I think it can be useful | 01:15 |
| Mokbortolan_ | oh yeah, I forget about ultrasound | 01:15 |
| kanzure | da fuck does hypnosis have to do with anything | 01:15 |
| Mokbortolan_ | I didn't ignore you :p I read a bit about it | 01:15 |
| Mokbortolan_ | see, now that's the attitude I'd like to avoid | 01:15 |
| Mokbortolan_ | skepticism is healthy | 01:16 |
| Mokbortolan_ | I understand that | 01:16 |
| Mokbortolan_ | that is a good question though | 01:16 |
| Mokbortolan_ | "What *does* he mean by using hypnosis to this end?" | 01:16 |
| kanzure | are you just making random assertions or do you have a paper/link | 01:16 |
| Mokbortolan_ | no, I only make random assertions for purposes of humor | 01:17 |
| kanzure | ok | 01:17 |
| kanzure | well, please keep that on reddit | 01:17 |
| kanzure | i mean, not the humor part, the other part | 01:17 |
| kanzure | the quantum consciousness/hypnosis/brainwave stuff | 01:17 |
| Mokbortolan_ | the first one is a fun idea | 01:18 |
| kanzure | ugh | 01:18 |
| Mokbortolan_ | the second is practical, and the third I'm still investigating | 01:18 |
| * Mokbortolan_ enjoys ideas. | 01:18 | |
| brownies | quantum hypnosis bro | 01:18 |
| kanzure | i'm not saying hypnosis is fake | 01:18 |
| kanzure | i'm saying it's probably not worth your attention | 01:18 |
| * Mokbortolan_ points an orgone generator at kanzure. | 01:18 | |
| Mokbortolan_ | :p | 01:19 |
| Mokbortolan_ | what makes you say that? | 01:19 |
| Mokbortolan_ | I promise not to try to convince you that hypnosis is useful or viable | 01:20 |
| Mokbortolan_ | but I am interested in your opinion in the matter | 01:20 |
| kanzure | you should be figuring out how to poke the brain with hot sticks and lasers, not hypnotic suggestion or decades of meditation | 01:21 |
| Mokbortolan_ | I've determined that it is impossible to convince anybody of anything | 01:21 |
| Mokbortolan_ | so, you know how thinking about moving your arm activates the same circuits as actually moving your arm? | 01:22 |
| Mokbortolan_ | that's how they get those monkeys to control the robotic arms, I hear | 01:23 |
| kanzure | nope | 01:23 |
| Mokbortolan_ | got it | 01:23 |
| kanzure | firing my arm neurons is not the same thing | 01:23 |
| kanzure | there are related motor cortex events going on, but it's not the same thing (otherwise my arm would move) | 01:23 |
| Mokbortolan_ | you're right,I wasn't being specific enough | 01:24 |
| * kanzure is grumpy | 01:24 | |
| kanzure | are you one of those guys who just makes lots of analogies about everything | 01:24 |
| Mokbortolan_ | sounds like you need more crystals glued to your skull | 01:24 |
| kanzure | how much do i need to spend? | 01:24 |
| Mokbortolan_ | limits your hat choices, but that's the nature of it | 01:24 |
| Mokbortolan_ | I could | 01:25 |
| * kanzure sleeps | 01:26 | |
| Mokbortolan_ | you can pick up a kit blessed by not only the buddhist triumvirate, but also the last remaining shou-lin priestess | 01:26 |
| Mokbortolan_ | a mere $24,000 | 01:26 |
| Mokbortolan_ | (an auspicious number) | 01:26 |
| Mokbortolan_ | without all that concentrated power, you would never pay that much for a bag of double-ended quartz crystals and a tube of cyanoacrylate? | 01:27 |
| Mokbortolan_ | err, -? | 01:27 |
| Mokbortolan_ | As far as I'm concerned, hypnosis is the same thing as having those monkeys think about moving their arms | 01:28 |
| foucist | Mokbortolan_: could've come up with a much more auspicious number.. 4 is a bad number in chinese, it represents death! | 01:28 |
| Mokbortolan_ | only in a more concentrated form, and for different circuits | 01:28 |
| Mokbortolan_ | sure, if you're Chinese | 01:29 |
| foucist | or asian | 01:29 |
| Mokbortolan_ | is that a pan-asian thing? | 01:29 |
| kanzure | your distinction about hypnosis and monkey arms doesn't make sense to me at all | 01:29 |
| Mokbortolan_ | or just chinese/japanese, due to the similar ideograms | 01:29 |
| kanzure | are you a neuroscientist? i forget what your background is | 01:29 |
| kanzure | like what do i need to tell you to go read | 01:29 |
| Mokbortolan_ | my background is baloney | 01:29 |
| kanzure | did you read that monkey/arm paper? | 01:29 |
| * Mokbortolan_ is a systems administrator. | 01:30 | |
| kanzure | http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v453/n7198/abs/nature06996.html | 01:30 |
| Mokbortolan_ | I integrate proprietary systems that I know little about the inner workings of | 01:30 |
| Mokbortolan_ | except when they fuck up, then my intuitive understanding of those inner workings saves my behind | 01:31 |
| Mokbortolan_ | lemme find you a good one | 01:33 |
| Mokbortolan_ | this one's not very good: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11842073 | 01:35 |
| Mokbortolan_ | here we go: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22465168 | 01:36 |
| Mokbortolan_ | The facilitating effect of clinical hypnosis on motor imagery: an fMRI study. | 01:36 |
| Mokbortolan_ | so, my hypnosis/tDCS association is to increase the excitability of a general area, then use hypnosis to activate the specific sections you want, over time strengthening those sections | 01:40 |
| Mokbortolan_ | right now I think hypnosis will only be superior to other methods in some cases, where actual practice will win out in others | 01:41 |
| kanzure | because you think hypnosis can isolate particular spatial dimensions of the brain? | 01:42 |
| kanzure | hypnotic coordinate system? what? | 01:42 |
| Mokbortolan_ | .... not so much a spatial activation, but a functional one | 01:42 |
| Mokbortolan_ | the spatial aspect being determined roughly beforehand by fMRI studies | 01:42 |
| kanzure | by varying the hypnotic input? i don't understand | 01:43 |
| Mokbortolan_ | in this sense, hypnosis is another form of practice | 01:43 |
| Mokbortolan_ | instead of practicing your forehand, you'd imagine that you were practicing it | 01:44 |
| kanzure | uhuh | 01:44 |
| * kanzure sleeps | 01:44 | |
| Mokbortolan_ | g'nite | 01:45 |
| Mokbortolan_ | forehand in the tennis context | 01:45 |
| kanzure | well, actually, i just want to clarify that i think your coordinate system sucks and you should try direct stimulation of whatever you're interested in | 01:45 |
| Mokbortolan_ | not the anatomical | 01:45 |
| Mokbortolan_ | how would you propose I do that? | 01:45 |
| Mokbortolan_ | needles? | 01:45 |
| Mokbortolan_ | hd-tdcs is interesting to me | 01:46 |
| Mokbortolan_ | seems a bit understudied to me though | 01:47 |
| obscurite | based on the abstract, their conclusion that hypnosis enhanced motor imagery is based soley on activity in the thalamus. | 01:49 |
| Mokbortolan_ | I didn't get that at all | 01:50 |
| obscurite | so they arbitrarily applied the adjective "enhance" to "thalamus activity" | 01:51 |
| obscurite | that's all I know because that's all that the abstract says. | 01:51 |
| Mokbortolan_ | if anybody could grab that one I'd give them an internet cookie | 01:52 |
| Mokbortolan_ | I'd be interested to see if they did a non-hypnosis set | 01:52 |
| Mokbortolan_ | unless they figured that's already been done to death | 01:53 |
| kanzure | blah, specifically, i don't think you should assume that what you consider hypnosis to have full ability to isolate particular brain regions, because of particular systemic limitations of the brain. just pointing a hot stick is much more direct. | 01:53 |
| obscurite | it says in the abstract they had a control with motion | 01:53 |
| kanzure | needles would work yes | 01:53 |
| * kanzure sleeps for real this time | 01:53 | |
| Mokbortolan_ | technically, I'm not interested in "activating regions" | 01:53 |
| obscurite | kanzure, in this case they did isolate a region, but they seem to have arbitrarily placed importance on it | 01:53 |
| Mokbortolan_ | my interest is more in practical, actual improvement of real-world performance | 01:54 |
| Mokbortolan_ | using research as a guide, rather than an end | 01:54 |
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| Mokbortolan_ | and I'm much more comfortable with faffing about with current limiters and woo-woo than I am with inserting needles into my brain :p | 01:55 |
| Mokbortolan_ | though I admit, criticizing from the sidelines is much safer socially than trying things and talking about it. | 01:58 |
| Mokbortolan_ | Wouldn't want to endanger our hard-won rung on the monkey ladder :p | 01:59 |
| Mokbortolan_ | +S | 01:59 |
| Mokbortolan_ | err.. +s | 01:59 |
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| Mokbortolan_ | Heya ThomasEgi | 03:14 |
| ThomasEgi | mornin? | 03:17 |
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| Mokbortolan_ | ThomasEgi: more or less | 04:28 |
| Mokbortolan_ | you still there? | 04:28 |
| ThomasEgi | nope | 04:28 |
| ThomasEgi | i gotta go now | 04:28 |
| Mokbortolan_ | d'oh | 04:28 |
| Mokbortolan_ | just wanted to see if you wanted an invite to /r/neuromod | 04:29 |
| Mokbortolan_ | you designed a tDCS circuit a while back, I was wondering if you had any interest in putting it to use to advance your professional work | 04:29 |
| ThomasEgi | tell me later about it.. in like.. 2 weeks when i'll be back with time | 04:29 |
| Mokbortolan_ | Ok | 04:29 |
| ThomasEgi | my professional work? :D | 04:29 |
| Mokbortolan_ | well, the idea is to take what we're learning about things like tDCS and tMS and apply them to, well, the stuff we do for a living | 04:30 |
| Mokbortolan_ | so instead of making reporters draw nice cats, you'd make creative leaps that change the course of human history | 04:30 |
| ThomasEgi | if you want a tDCS you should head to biohack.me there is a thread about it where a guy named rdb posetd a microcontroller based tdcs system | 04:30 |
| ThomasEgi | i helped out with that one. | 04:30 |
| ThomasEgi | it's by far more sophisticated that my small circuit i slammed together in 5 minutes | 04:30 |
| Mokbortolan_ | ooh, yeah, I've been looking at that and the OpenStim project | 04:30 |
| Mokbortolan_ | yep, I'm plotting a sort of HD-tDCS | 04:31 |
| Mokbortolan_ | but I will definitely check that out, thanks | 04:31 |
| ThomasEgi | allready in work by that other guy^ | 04:31 |
| Mokbortolan_ | there are a few at it | 04:31 |
| ThomasEgi | i am doing circuits and programming as professional work already tho. | 04:31 |
| ThomasEgi | no drawing cats here^ | 04:31 |
| Mokbortolan_ | hehehe | 04:31 |
| ThomasEgi | altho cats are cute | 04:31 |
| Mokbortolan_ | indeed | 04:31 |
| Mokbortolan_ | that's just an example | 04:32 |
| ThomasEgi | so. i gotta go. helping someone out with digital signal processing | 04:32 |
| Mokbortolan_ | sure you can make test subjects immediately identify primes, but can it help you program? | 04:32 |
| Mokbortolan_ | Ok, ttyl | 04:32 |
| Mokbortolan_ | thanks for the tip | 04:32 |
| ThomasEgi | tdcs? | 04:32 |
| ThomasEgi | i don't use it | 04:32 |
| Mokbortolan_ | gotcha | 04:32 |
| ThomasEgi | my brain is awesome enough without it | 04:32 |
| Mokbortolan_ | understood | 04:32 |
| ThomasEgi | *awesomeface* | 04:32 |
| ThomasEgi | so yeah. catch me again in 2 weeks when i'll be back from holiday | 04:33 |
| ThomasEgi | till then. have a nice time | 04:33 |
| Mokbortolan_ | Ok, have a good time | 04:33 |
| Mokbortolan_ | don't catch any veneral diseases | 04:33 |
| Mokbortolan_ | venereal | 04:33 |
| ThomasEgi | if anything. i'll get attackt by wolves or bears :D | 04:33 |
| Mokbortolan_ | I hear wolves got the clap | 04:33 |
| ThomasEgi | anyway | 04:34 |
| Mokbortolan_ | :p | 04:34 |
| ThomasEgi | cya^ | 04:34 |
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| kendoka | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-kY9zBXTiQ | 06:58 |
| kendoka | rTMS cures aspies | 06:59 |
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| nmz787 | kanzure: around? | 07:07 |
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| kanzure | kendoka: there are many rtms claims.. http://superkuh.com/library/Neuroscience/Magnetic%20Stimulation/ | 08:00 |
| kanzure | Mokbortolan_: you seem to assume that hypnosis automatically means improvement? what? | 08:01 |
| kanzure | Mokbortolan_: i know you think we're worthless but we actually do have some experience with the openstim project -_- | 08:04 |
| kendoka | http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22083896 | 08:18 |
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| kendoka | does this stuff only work on T-Cells? | 08:19 |
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| kanzure | rdb: hi | 08:21 |
| kanzure | rdb: someone was looking for you | 08:21 |
| rdb | kanzure, yeah, I talked to him already | 08:21 |
| rdb | thanks anyway though | 08:21 |
| kanzure | kendoka: it says fibroblasts too | 08:22 |
| kendoka | yeah i saw that | 08:22 |
| kendoka | the extract is sold under the name TA-65 | 08:23 |
| kanzure | hi drguildo | 08:24 |
| kanzure | Mokbortolan_: i think it's inappropriate of you to set that group as private | 08:26 |
| drguildo | hi | 08:27 |
| kanzure | what brings you here? | 08:30 |
| drguildo | #reddit-nootropics :-) | 08:31 |
| Urchin | nootropics tend to get popular around exams | 08:35 |
| Urchin | or deadlines in general | 08:36 |
| drguildo | i've been interested in them for years to varying degrees | 08:36 |
| drguildo | i think i found out about them after i'd graduated | 08:36 |
| kanzure | eww guys this guy graduated | 08:37 |
| drguildo | B-) | 08:37 |
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| Mokbortolan_ | kanzure: you think so? | 09:56 |
| Mokbortolan_ | you might be right.. perhaps I should set it to "members submit only" | 09:56 |
| kanzure | which comment are you responding to | 09:56 |
| kanzure | ok | 09:56 |
| Mokbortolan_ | I'm also concerned with some of the stuff I see on the tDCS reddit | 09:56 |
| kanzure | broken stuff? | 09:57 |
| Mokbortolan_ | broken designs hurting people | 09:57 |
| kanzure | have there been injury reports? | 09:57 |
| Mokbortolan_ | not yet | 09:57 |
| Mokbortolan_ | honestly I think the risk of injury is fairly low given the wide experimentally-derived safety profile, but more learned folks than I are being very, very cautious | 09:58 |
| Mokbortolan_ | sorry if I mash up my terms, I'm a little sleep deprived | 09:58 |
| kanzure | an easy test in the case of ultrasound transducers is buying some meat from a grocery store and targetting it | 09:58 |
| kanzure | you can then examine the damage by slicing the meat and looking with a magnifying glass or microscope | 09:59 |
| kanzure | i suppose the same might work for tdcs | 09:59 |
| Mokbortolan_ | well, they've done that with rats | 09:59 |
| Mokbortolan_ | man, "they" do *everything* | 09:59 |
| kanzure | but this won't immediately give you an indication for pain (although it might show you where the majority of interaction occurs) | 09:59 |
| kanzure | actually, the tdcs mechanism isn't heat, so there wouldn't be heat damage | 10:00 |
| kanzure | hrmm | 10:00 |
| Mokbortolan_ | that data suggests an "order of magnitude" difference between risk and effectiveness | 10:00 |
| Mokbortolan_ | at least for rats | 10:00 |
| Mokbortolan_ | rats are pretty tough little guys | 10:00 |
| kanzure | Mokbortolan_: have you read this yet? https://brmlab.cz/project/brain_hacking/tdcs | 10:00 |
| Mokbortolan_ | probably, but I will read it again, for you! | 10:00 |
| kanzure | huh? | 10:01 |
| Mokbortolan_ | yep, read that, and the study (abstract, probably) that refers to the "two orders of magnitude" | 10:01 |
| kanzure | i'm not sure what you are talking about. what is the actual dimensional measurement of magnitude in that statement? | 10:02 |
| nmz787 | tcds is magnets or current? | 10:03 |
| Mokbortolan_ | Using a rat model, researchers investigated the safety limits of extended cathodal tDCS and found the charge density threshold to be two orders of magnitude greater than the charge currently administered in humans (Liebetanz et al., 2009). | 10:03 |
| kanzure | nmz787: magnetic stimulation is magnets. direct current stimulation is DC. | 10:03 |
| nmz787 | tdcs seems limited to the outer layer of brain though, no? | 10:04 |
| kanzure | Mokbortolan_: have you used tdcs yet? all of the reports i have heard is that it is always accompanied by extreme pain. | 10:04 |
| kanzure | nmz787: here's some info on targetting.. http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/neuro/A%20novel%20array-type%20transcranial%20direct%20current%20stimulation%20(tDCS)%20system%20for%20accurate%20focusing%20on%20targeted%20brain%20areas%20-%202011.pdf | 10:05 |
| Mokbortolan_ | hahahah | 10:05 |
| Mokbortolan_ | yes, I have used a simple design, battery + potentiometer | 10:05 |
| Mokbortolan_ | with an ammeter inline | 10:05 |
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| Mokbortolan_ | I did not experience extreme pain, merely a few flashes of light and the occasional metallic taste when the positioning slipped | 10:06 |
| Mokbortolan_ | I doubt that extreme pain is a common occurrence, otherwise I would suspect that there would be fewer studies for things other than major depression, where it might be worth it to the patient as an investigative technique | 10:07 |
| kanzure | i think the person who mentioned this to me was using it for muscle stimulation, which would explain some of the pain | 10:07 |
| kanzure | (muscle pain can be bad) | 10:07 |
| Mokbortolan_ | err | 10:07 |
| Mokbortolan_ | low-frequency stimulation causing pain? | 10:08 |
| Mokbortolan_ | (.003hz) | 10:08 |
| nmz787 | kanzure: that doesn't give a range or max depth | 10:08 |
| kanzure | nmz787: true! but it's also the only paper i've found that gets close to answering that question. | 10:08 |
| Mokbortolan_ | I have read the abstracts of a few russion studies that suggest that extreme pain is actually a treatment for major depression | 10:09 |
| Mokbortolan_ | but that's neither here nor there, just my brain making random connections between words and memories | 10:10 |
| Mokbortolan_ | of course, getting whipped by an attractive nurse may have had something to do with those results | 10:10 |
| Mokbortolan_ | though that doesn't address the injections of ... I think it was.. "peach pit oil"? | 10:11 |
| kanzure | Mokbortolan_: do you have some papers i can add to a collection? | 10:15 |
| Mokbortolan_ | the few I have I acquired through the generous members of this room :) | 10:16 |
| Mokbortolan_ | which topic are you referring to, the russian ones or the ones I've been gathering since yesterday regarding the NeuroMod project? | 10:16 |
| kanzure | this is all i have: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/neuro/tdcs/ | 10:16 |
| Mokbortolan_ | I have a few to throw on the heap, but I need to collect them | 10:17 |
| * Mokbortolan_ uses a fair number of computers and hasn't been good about collecting the papers in a central place. | 10:17 | |
| Mokbortolan_ | Oh, I've posted a fair few on /r/tDCS | 10:18 |
| Mokbortolan_ | let me get you those | 10:18 |
| kanzure | hrm i should organize things better.. | 10:19 |
| kanzure | i've moved working-memory-related articles in here: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/neuro/working-memory/ | 10:19 |
| Mokbortolan_ | http://cercor.oxfordjournals.org/content/20/1/205.full | 10:20 |
| Mokbortolan_ | I'll snag the links, but here's all I've posted so far: http://www.reddit.com/r/tDCS/search?q=moktarino&restrict_sr=on | 10:21 |
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| Mokbortolan_ | bah, mediafire yanked the ones I hosted there | 10:22 |
| kanzure | nmz787: hi | 10:34 |
| kanzure | nmz787: apparently we have someone from hackmanhattan in here now (obscurite) | 10:34 |
| kanzure | erm, i mean, daniel | 10:34 |
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| Mokbortolan_ | neat perception of time article: http://www.andyross.net/eagleman.htm | 10:36 |
| Mokbortolan_ | apparently, time doesn't slow down during traumatic events, you just remember them in higher resolution | 10:36 |
| nmz787 | cool | 10:37 |
| nmz787 | obscurite: you go to hackmanhattan? | 10:37 |
| Mokbortolan_ | I was really hoping the opposite would be true, but no | 10:37 |
| kanzure | Mokbortolan_: you might be interested in these: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/neuro/time-perception/ | 10:37 |
| Mokbortolan_ | I just want to induce "bullet time" :( | 10:39 |
| * Mokbortolan_ is all about the Benjamins. | 10:39 | |
| ThomasEgi | Mokbortolan_, i may want to add that preceiption of time, in generall, is can variate a lot. | 10:39 |
| ThomasEgi | i know several situations where i can trick my brain into working faster. doing the same task at normal speed makes verything run in slow-motion for 5 to 15 minutes. | 10:40 |
| ThomasEgi | pretty usefull for playing games where fast reaction is demanded :) too bad it doesn't last the entire match | 10:41 |
| ThomasEgi | also works the other way round :) | 10:41 |
| Mokbortolan_ | I've heard of a professional european squash player who teaches that | 10:41 |
| kanzure | jrayhawk also calls this velocitation (like after driving on a highway) | 10:41 |
| kanzure | i think velocitation can possibly be induced by visual images on a computer screen, but i'm not sure yet | 10:41 |
| ThomasEgi | it is pretty easy to test out. | 10:42 |
| kanzure | possibly by the "star trek" "screensaver", but i don't remember feeling velocitated after staring at that | 10:42 |
| ThomasEgi | like. unreal tournament 2k4 has a game-mod that allows you to set the game-speed. play on twice the game speed for a while, switch back to normal | 10:42 |
| ThomasEgi | and everything will be ultra-slow-motion | 10:42 |
| Mokbortolan_ | that is the sort of thing that can be induced through hypnosis | 10:42 |
| kanzure | the game engine can realistically do everything 2x? | 10:42 |
| ThomasEgi | sure | 10:43 |
| ThomasEgi | you can crank it up even faster | 10:43 |
| ThomasEgi | it won't render faster | 10:43 |
| kanzure | all my collision detection algorithms always tax my processors | 10:43 |
| ThomasEgi | but all actions and animations run faster | 10:43 |
| kanzure | (maybe i shouldn't write game engines) | 10:43 |
| ThomasEgi | it is the same ammount of processing | 10:43 |
| kanzure | oh is it skipping animation frames? | 10:43 |
| ThomasEgi | it is not bound to fixed frames anywa | 10:43 |
| ThomasEgi | it interpolates between frames to match the correct time. | 10:44 |
| ThomasEgi | doesn't matter where in the streams of frames you are. | 10:44 |
| kanzure | hmm | 10:44 |
| ThomasEgi | it still has to calculate 60 frames per second | 10:44 |
| ThomasEgi | the time in the gameplay is just a variable | 10:44 |
| Mokbortolan_ | if you can induce it once, you can remember it through guided trance, then reference that process directly and induce it later with suggestion | 10:44 |
| ThomasEgi | it's a really impressive effect. i can highly recommend to give it a try, given you are fps-gamer. | 10:45 |
| Mokbortolan_ | or you could just play Doom II | 10:46 |
| ThomasEgi | not sure if it has gamespeed modification | 10:46 |
| kanzure | oh, speaking of time perception | 10:46 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/neuro/time-perception/Why+time+appears+to+speed+up+with+age.html | 10:46 |
| Mokbortolan_ | the "updated" version (zDoom, last I checked) has the speed cranked all the way up | 10:46 |
| kanzure | the "effective life percentage" needs to be tested | 10:46 |
| Mokbortolan_ | it's like being a pinball with a shotgun | 10:46 |
| kanzure | by electroshocking some old man and seeing if his time perception is still fucked up in his 80s | 10:46 |
| Mokbortolan_ | everybody runs at the same speed as rockets | 10:47 |
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| kanzure | (e.g. induce amnesia) | 10:47 |
| Mokbortolan_ | so you shoot rockets at speed, and run next to them | 10:47 |
| ThomasEgi | hehe sounds fun | 10:47 |
| ThomasEgi | the other extreme of time preception is just as interestin | 10:47 |
| ThomasEgi | when the body slows down all it's functionality. | 10:47 |
| ThomasEgi | time passes a lot faster than one would think | 10:48 |
| nmz787 | http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/files/2012/06/drugs.jpg | 10:48 |
| ThomasEgi | even without falling asleep | 10:48 |
| nmz787 | butane! | 10:48 |
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| ThomasEgi | no news^ still acohol and tabaco are legal | 10:49 |
| ThomasEgi | economic pressure on politics i guess | 10:50 |
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| kanzure | i miss ruphos already | 10:51 |
| Urchin | who? | 11:05 |
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| archels | http://gtresearchnews.gatech.edu/muscle-like-action-mimics-human-eye-movement/ | 11:48 |
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| nmz787 | awesome: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3cJ6xVkLuk&feature=youtube_gdata_player | 13:14 |
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| kendoka | http://www.ultrasoundbme.com/news/index.php | 15:33 |
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| kendoka | openstim folks need to post vlogs like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_olmdAQx5s | 16:00 |
| kanzure | openstim was basically just ed boyden throwing some parts together and then never publishing anything, i think | 16:01 |
| kanzure | ask superkuh | 16:01 |
| kanzure | dascancer: hi. | 16:01 |
| kanzure | superkuh: was that also your take-away from openstim? | 16:02 |
| superkuh | I can't say I contributed much either, but yeah. | 16:02 |
| dascancer | hola | 16:02 |
| superkuh | I don't recall a switching topology ever even being decided on. Just lots of discussion of coil testing protocol and optimization. | 16:03 |
| superkuh | But I was out of the loop after a few months. | 16:03 |
| kanzure | superkuh: it might interest you to know that around 2009 ed was telling me at some conference that he was sorta looking for some grad student to take on the project (though i don't know how serious he was); just seemed sort of disinterested in it. | 16:04 |
| kanzure | dascancer: what brings you here? | 16:05 |
| dascancer | 1.: In calculus bored 2: biohacking sounds cool but its all over myhead | 16:06 |
| kanzure | dascancer: high school or college calculus? | 16:06 |
| dascancer | college | 16:06 |
| kanzure | uh you know you can just walk out, right? | 16:06 |
| dascancer | Yeah but there is a test next class so i wanna get any hints he likes to throw at the end. | 16:07 |
| Steel2 | dascancer, what school/major, if you're comfortable with that? | 16:11 |
| dascancer | Cell Bio sophmore small school | 16:12 |
| Steel2 | cool | 16:13 |
| Steel2 | kanzure will be happy to have more real bio around here :P | 16:13 |
| dascancer | meh im not there yet give me a year or 2 | 16:14 |
| kanzure | kendoka: you might also be interested in looking through the logs of the open-rtms mailing list | 16:16 |
| kanzure | iirc even less work got done on there than openstim | 16:16 |
| dascancer | So this may be more of a common question but would you call transhumanism a sort of religion | 16:19 |
| kanzure | no | 16:19 |
| kanzure | it's just a bad way of saying "personal technological enhancement" | 16:19 |
| kendoka | i'd like to find some plans for a cheap h-coil design | 16:21 |
| dascancer | So more of a blending of human an tech? | 16:22 |
| kanzure | kendoka: try here? http://superkuh.com/library/Neuroscience/Magnetic%20Stimulation/ | 16:23 |
| kanzure | kendoka: and bug superkuh a bunch | 16:24 |
| kanzure | these two in particular: | 16:24 |
| kanzure | http://superkuh.com/library/Neuroscience/Magnetic%20Stimulation/Coil%20Design%20of%20Repetitive%20Transcranial%20Magnetic%20Stimulation%20System%20for%20Small%20Animal_%20etd-0721108-140106.pdf | 16:24 |
| kanzure | http://superkuh.com/library/Neuroscience/Magnetic%20Stimulation/A%20Transcranial%20Magnetic%20Stimulation%20Coil%20Using%20Rectangular%20Braided%20Litz%20Wire_%20M%20Talebinejad_%20S%20Musallam_%20A%20E%20Marble.pdf | 16:24 |
| kendoka | thanks for the paper; abstract is in chinese though | 16:30 |
| kanzure | never a better time to learn | 16:30 |
| kendoka | its ok though i decided to take up mandarin | 16:30 |
| kendoka | learning 1 ideogram a day | 16:30 |
| kendoka | 10000 more to go | 16:30 |
| kanzure | that's the spirit :) | 16:30 |
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| dascancer | Like I said right now im really more of a "biology is cool" person but would it be possible to program bacteria to function as sort of bacteria neural net | 16:50 |
| kendoka | that just keeps exponentially growing ? :) | 16:53 |
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| kendoka | im reminded of the countermeasure fungus thing in a Vernor Vinge book. | 16:54 |
| dascancer | well a colony can only get so big | 16:56 |
| dascancer | The idea would be sort of a small microbe brain | 16:59 |
| kendoka | under the right conditions it could become quite extensive; like those algae biofuel farms | 16:59 |
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| kendoka | chemical signalling is one thing; generating action potentials is another | 17:02 |
| Steel2 | hey eudox | 17:03 |
| eudoxia | yo steel | 17:03 |
| eudoxia | hey dascancer | 17:03 |
| dascancer | hiya | 17:03 |
| dascancer | Would there be any need for action potentials? There could be some sort of neuron model used... | 17:05 |
| eudoxia | what do you mean? | 17:06 |
| dascancer | Well instead of using ions and what not why not just chemical signaling arranged in such a way to mimic a neuron model | 17:09 |
| eudoxia | don't neurons use ions for communication? | 17:09 |
| dascancer | yes, but bacteria can use many things | 17:10 |
| eudoxia | mimic a neuron using some other form of chemical communication? | 17:11 |
| dascancer | yes | 17:11 |
| kanzure | there are many forms of chemical signals | 17:12 |
| kanzure | but in general it would probably be faster to just use dna transcription or rna transcription as a signaller rather than hacking up some g-signalling pathway | 17:13 |
| kanzure | dascancer: pardon me for asking, but what exactly are they teaching you if not these things? you said you're a cell bio major? | 17:13 |
| dascancer | well I just finished up my first bio class lol, Im barely a sophomore | 17:15 |
| Mokbortolan_ | ooh, good stuff | 17:16 |
| dascancer | gotta get the core classes out first | 17:18 |
| dascancer | Ill read up on cell communication but yeah it was an idea i read somewhere an just wondering if it was possible | 17:22 |
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| kanzure | hi klafka | 18:01 |
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| JayDugger | Good evening, everyone. | 18:36 |
| kanzure | welcome back | 18:37 |
| JayDugger | Aww... | 18:38 |
| kanzure | where have you been? | 18:40 |
| JayDugger | Tending my off-line life. Don't get one if you can help it. | 18:40 |
| kanzure | i hear its costly | 18:41 |
| JayDugger | That matches my experience. It drains the two great currencies: time and money. | 18:41 |
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| chevbird | if anyone's going to be in boston weds, i can grab an extra seat to this: Wednesday, July 11th, 6-7pm | 20:10 |
| chevbird | Miniature science: How microfluidics is powering biology | 20:10 |
| chevbird | Paul Blainey, Ph.D. | 20:10 |
| chevbird | Miniaturized lab-on-a-chip methods are being deployed as labor-saving devices in biological research, through the advent of a suite of microfluidics technologies. Microfluidics enables large-scale studies that provide the means to better understand, prevent, and treat human disease. Paul Blainey will discuss the promise of using microfluidics to transform our industrial infrastructure to operate more efficiently, | 20:10 |
| chevbird | while protecting the natural environment. | 20:10 |
| kanzure | there's also a george church / drew endy / gershenfeld powwow on microfluidics, that might have been last week actually.. | 20:11 |
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| kanzure | 20:48 < SubStack> kanzure: http://github.com/dominictarr https://github.com/maxogden https://github.com/isaacs are some of my favs | 20:48 |
| kanzure | http://github.com/substack | 20:48 |
| kanzure | https://github.com/dominictarr/mux-demux | 20:50 |
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| --- Log closed Tue Jul 10 00:00:04 2012 | ||
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