| --- Log opened Tue Jul 17 00:00:11 2012 | ||
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| * Mokbortolan_ breaks out the liquid electrical tape. | 00:20 | |
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| Mokbortolan_ | would anybody mind teaching me how to read my multimeter? | 00:22 |
|---|---|---|
| Mokbortolan_ | it's the analog kind | 00:23 |
| Mokbortolan_ | are the numbers on the dial multipliers? | 00:23 |
| Mokbortolan_ | n/m, figured it out | 00:26 |
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| Utopiah | https://www.coursera.org/course/drugsandbrain | 03:41 |
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| rdb | Utopiah, cool, thanks for link | 05:09 |
| Utopiah | np | 05:09 |
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| kanzure | http://www.danielwillingham.com/1/post/2012/05/the-latest-on-intelligence.html | 08:11 |
| kanzure | heh what? "Almost no genetic polymorphisms have been discovered that are consistently associated with variation of IQ in the normal range." | 08:11 |
| kanzure | http://scottbarrykaufman.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Nisbett-et-al.-2012.pdf | 08:11 |
| kanzure | ParahSailin__: did you look at the ben wpan thing from qi hardware? | 08:18 |
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| kanzure | http://www.nature.com/scitable/blog/theprometheancell/diybio_first_impressions | 10:08 |
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| AdrianG_ | hy guiz | 11:03 |
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| kanzure | for x in `find . \( -name url.txt -o -name urls.txt \) -print`; do cat "$x"; done | grep http | wc -l | 11:05 |
| kanzure | 10132 | 11:05 |
| kanzure | this is how i keep track of where i download all the things. | 11:06 |
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| AdrianG | kanzure when do you sleep | 11:14 |
| AdrianG | are you ever offline | 11:14 |
| kanzure | well, i'm certainly never offline, but that is independent of my sleep | 11:15 |
| kanzure | i usually sleep between 1am and 6am | 11:15 |
| AdrianG | 5 hrs? | 11:16 |
| kanzure | it varies | 11:16 |
| Sanky|test | do you wake naturally or do you use alarms? | 11:17 |
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| kanzure | that also varies, i wake naturally at 7 hours but i do tend to set alarms for <7 hours | 11:18 |
| Sanqui | I see. | 11:18 |
| kanzure | why are my sleeping habits of sudden interest? | 11:19 |
| Sanqui | I jumped at it since it was mentioned. | 11:19 |
| kanzure | if you are planning to rob me please rob me between the hours of 4pm and 6pm M-F and 3pm on Saturdays (Sundays aren't OK) | 11:19 |
| Sanqui | I'll try to keep it in mind | 11:20 |
| Lemminkainen_ | Sanqui: gonna steal kanzure 's potato | 11:21 |
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| nmz787 | has anyone here actually read that Biopunk book? | 11:31 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/diybio/biopunk.pdf | 11:32 |
| kanzure | i've flipped through it, but no. my grandma has, does that count? | 11:32 |
| nmz787 | have you conversed with her about it? | 11:33 |
| kanzure | hmm, why do you ask? | 11:33 |
| nmz787 | read that nature post you mentioned earlier | 11:34 |
| kanzure | did marcus email you when he was writing the book? | 11:34 |
| nmz787 | nope | 11:34 |
| kanzure | he sent out emails to pretty much everyone in the book | 11:34 |
| kanzure | asking for permission to include certain things, or to look over certain passages, things like that.. | 11:34 |
| nmz787 | hmm | 11:35 |
| nmz787 | I don't know why Meredith Patterson is mentioned and quoted so much, seems like openPCR accomplished more than she did | 11:35 |
| nmz787 | at one point as I remember she was using the wrong kind of promoters or something, which is an easy google scholar search away | 11:36 |
| kanzure | openpcr was after the book was published | 11:36 |
| kanzure | meredith got a lot of press attention because she was the only alternative to "DIYbio" which had some issues with too-much-connections-to-igem or something | 11:37 |
| kanzure | the other reason is because marcus was the one who originally did the story on meredith on AP | 11:38 |
| kanzure | which sorta started the media spiral death trap | 11:39 |
| nmz787 | alternative to DIYbio? | 11:39 |
| nmz787 | oh | 11:39 |
| kanzure | well i mean, alternative person to focus on | 11:39 |
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| kanzure | remember, mac used to be running some part of igem (i forget which part), and jason was always a part of some harvard lab | 11:39 |
| kanzure | so by those standards, meredith was significantly more amateur :P | 11:39 |
| nmz787 | sure | 11:41 |
| * nsh wonders about superkuh's quitline | 11:42 | |
| kanzure | nmz787: http://openwetware.org/wiki/DIYbio/FAQ/News | 11:42 |
| kanzure | nmz787: he was fascinated by models of neuron firing for a while | 11:43 |
| kanzure | oops, i meant nsh | 11:44 |
| nsh | ah, thanks | 11:44 |
| nsh | is that an accepted statement of fact then? or conjectural? | 11:44 |
| kanzure | http://superkuh.com/library/Neuroscience/Lipid%20Membrane/ | 11:44 |
| kanzure | he lost his files recently in an fbi raid, so it seems that some of the propagating-density-stuff is presently missing | 11:45 |
| nsh | "This FAQ for DIYbio is actively maintained by it's editors" no apostrophe required | 11:45 |
| nsh | heh, fbi raid? | 11:45 |
| kanzure | nsh: http://superkuh.com/library/Neuroscience/Lipid%20Membrane/Rapid%20mechanical%20and%20thermal%20changes%20in%20the%20garfish%20olfactory%20nerve%20associated%20with%20propagated%20impulse_%20Tasaki%20I_%20Kusano%20K_%20Byrne%20PM_%201989.pdf | 11:45 |
| kanzure | nsh: i didn't write that line (that was jonathan cline) | 11:46 |
| kanzure | and it's not actually 'actively' maintained :P i don't think he's edited it in a year. | 11:46 |
| * nsh nods - just wasn't sure i could be bothered to create a login to edit it | 11:46 | |
| nsh | okay | 11:46 |
| kanzure | http://superkuh.com/library/Neuroscience/Lipid%20Membrane/Phase%20transition%20in%20membrane%20with%20reference%20to%20nerve%20excitation_%20Kobatake%20Y_%20Tasaki%20I_%20Watanabe%20A_%20advbiophys_1971.pdf | 11:46 |
| nsh | thanks and thanks | 11:46 |
| kanzure | oh, yeah, creating logins on openwetware is painful and stupid | 11:46 |
| kanzure | http://superkuh.com/library/Neuroscience/Lipid%20Membrane/Volume%20expansion%20of%20nonmyelinated%20nerve%20fibers%20during%20impulse%20conduction_%20Tasaki%20I_%20Byrne%20PM_%201990.pdf | 11:47 |
| kanzure | well, anyway, i expect he would be better at picking out a good article | 11:47 |
| * nsh nods | 11:48 | |
| AdrianG | ok | 11:48 |
| AdrianG | what are the most potent nootropics | 11:48 |
| kanzure | well, there are many drugs that modulate the brain | 11:49 |
| kanzure | some just make people feel good, which isn't a bad thing | 11:49 |
| kanzure | if you want an unpopular answer to your question, i would say that a minimum nootropic is one that has some measurable result like, making you better at making a better nootropic, which almost none do | 11:50 |
| nsh | tell that to shulgin | 11:50 |
| nmz787 | nsh: what is that quitline you're talking about? | 11:50 |
| nmz787 | kanzure: fbi raid? | 11:50 |
| kanzure | that's just shulgin being shulgin | 11:50 |
| nsh | superkuh has quit (Quit: the neuronal action potential is an electrical manipulation of reversible abrupt phase changes in the lipid bilayer) | 11:50 |
| kanzure | nmz787: he doesn't want to talk about the raid | 11:51 |
| nsh | understandably | 11:51 |
| nmz787 | nsh: It'd be cool to meet Shulgin, but I think he's too old these days to entertain many folks | 11:51 |
| kanzure | too old? that's the best kind of old | 11:51 |
| AdrianG | kanzure: if it makes me feel good its good enough for me | 11:51 |
| kanzure | AdrianG: then why not just use heroin | 11:51 |
| AdrianG | unsustainable | 11:51 |
| AdrianG | plus a messy administration path | 11:51 |
| kanzure | ok. so it sounds like you don't actually want nootropics though? | 11:52 |
| nsh | AdrianG, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/25I-NBOMe | 11:52 |
| nmz787 | nsh: i thought you meant like a toll-free phone number, e.g. smoking quitline | 11:52 |
| AdrianG | nah nootropics are good | 11:52 |
| AdrianG | nsh: what is it | 11:52 |
| AdrianG | a psychedelic? | 11:52 |
| nsh | yes | 11:52 |
| kanzure | like, what if the drug made you into a super-working transhumanist, but made you fucking miserable? | 11:52 |
| nsh | like university? | 11:52 |
| AdrianG | nsh: and whats so good about it | 11:52 |
| AdrianG | kanzure: you mean like meth? | 11:52 |
| kanzure | i haven't met any transhumanists on meth, or any productive transhumanists on meth | 11:53 |
| * nsh chuckles | 11:53 | |
| kanzure | so no, not like meth | 11:53 |
| AdrianG | im pretty sure desoxyn is very popular in the Silicon Valley. | 11:53 |
| AdrianG | ive heard its the most common adhd drug in that area. | 11:53 |
| nmz787 | nsh: looks like most of the items in PIHKAL | 11:53 |
| nsh | AdrianG, http://www.erowid.org/experiences/subs/exp_2CINBOMe.shtml | 11:54 |
| nmz787 | desoxyn == meth | 11:54 |
| nmz787 | in tablet | 11:54 |
| nmz787 | :D | 11:54 |
| AdrianG | methamphetamine is methamphetamine | 11:54 |
| AdrianG | nsh: i dont see anything nootropical about this | 11:54 |
| kanzure | i don't see what SV has to do with it | 11:54 |
| nsh | it has some potential, though i suspect the main obstacles in psychedelic-based phenomenological research are intersubjective, rather than stereochemical | 11:54 |
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| AdrianG | plus i cannot take psychedelics | 11:54 |
| AdrianG | i have increased risks of HPPD | 11:54 |
| kanzure | i also don't see why it has to be a euphoric drug | 11:54 |
| AdrianG | because hyperthymia is conducive to being productive | 11:55 |
| nsh | creativity and euphoria are correlated | 11:55 |
| AdrianG | and difference between euphoria and hyperthymia is just that of a degree | 11:55 |
| nmz787 | http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=95977 | 11:55 |
| nmz787 | one of two refs to transhumanist in the experiences | 11:55 |
| kanzure | yes but said "euphoria" hasn't been enough to make any of the meth-heads make better nootropics (which was my original test i offered) | 11:55 |
| AdrianG | meth is a productivity drug. | 11:55 |
| nmz787 | ibogaine is active in addiction treament centers in mexico | 11:55 |
| nsh | kanzure, ok | 11:55 |
| kanzure | AdrianG: i am arguing that the production output is not interesting. cleaning? shit, hire someone for <$50/hour to do that. | 11:56 |
| AdrianG | kanzure: it'll increase productivity of anything you are doing | 11:56 |
| AdrianG | increased energy/focus/concentration cant hurt. | 11:56 |
| kanzure | i don't seem to be communicating with you | 11:57 |
| kanzure | what do you think i am saying? | 11:57 |
| AdrianG | production output is not interesting. | 11:57 |
| * nsh is dubious | 11:57 | |
| AdrianG | that's a strange thing to say. everything you do is an output. | 11:57 |
| kanzure | i was saying, specifically, the production output of meth-heads | 11:57 |
| AdrianG | we are not talking about addicts | 11:57 |
| nsh | efficacy in one domain is generally at the expense of another | 11:57 |
| kanzure | i have never heard of a meth-head making a better drug | 11:57 |
| AdrianG | nsh: stimulants are overdrive drugs | 11:58 |
| kanzure | and i have never heard of a heroin experience leading to a better drug | 11:58 |
| AdrianG | you pay for it later. | 11:58 |
| AdrianG | kanzure: let me guess, LSD led to something else? | 11:58 |
| kanzure | what? | 11:58 |
| nmz787 | in shulgins cas | 11:58 |
| nmz787 | e | 11:58 |
| AdrianG | what other drugs lead to better drugs? | 11:58 |
| nmz787 | I generally revere psychedelics | 11:58 |
| nmz787 | but they aren't for everyyday | 11:58 |
| kanzure | AdrianG: my point is that so far there hasn't been anything that reliably leads to better systematic search of nootropics | 11:58 |
| AdrianG | you can take them daily anywya, its impossible | 11:59 |
| nsh | AdrianG, have you tried playing buckaroo after 12 cups of coffee? | 11:59 |
| AdrianG | kanzure: that has no bearing on their effectivness | 11:59 |
| nmz787 | sure you can | 11:59 |
| AdrianG | you expect a breakthrough in a pill | 11:59 |
| kanzure | a LSD trip might lead to some strange concept by accidet, but that's not a nootropic effect | 11:59 |
| kanzure | that's a psychedelic effect | 11:59 |
| AdrianG | nsh: ofc not, i dont drink coffee | 11:59 |
| nmz787 | the dose doesn't have to be tripping-level | 11:59 |
| AdrianG | nmz787: tolerance | 11:59 |
| nmz787 | sub-active doses improve things in a less perceptible manner, such that you aren't going crazy with colors and can't talk to people | 12:00 |
| AdrianG | tryptamine/phenethylamines build up tolerance really quick | 12:00 |
| kanzure | i strongly disagree with the premise that tripping and randomly disrupting the brain is the only way to design new drugs | 12:00 |
| nmz787 | so dose heroin and meth | 12:00 |
| nmz787 | does* | 12:00 |
| AdrianG | nmz787: amphetamines maintain their concentrating/focusing effect | 12:00 |
| nmz787 | kanzure: I'm not advocating that | 12:00 |
| nsh | kanzure, you can find bugs by analysis of source code, you can also find bugs by fuzzing | 12:00 |
| kanzure | nmz787: AdrianG is. | 12:00 |
| rdb | AdrianG, they also build off tolerance really quick | 12:00 |
| AdrianG | euphoria/mood boost will go away | 12:00 |
| nsh | if people are willing to do that to themselves, i won't try to talk them out of it | 12:00 |
| AdrianG | rdb: concentration stays, only mood elevation goes away | 12:00 |
| kanzure | nsh: there are millions of people "fuzzing" their brain, and the results aren't that interesting to me so far | 12:01 |
| kanzure | nsh: so, that argument doesn't make sense to me. | 12:01 |
| * nsh shrugs | 12:01 | |
| rdb | AdrianG, I mean tryptamines and serotoninergic psychedelics build off tolerance quickly | 12:01 |
| kanzure | nsh: specifically we are talking about nootropics | 12:01 |
| AdrianG | rdb: yes i am well aware thx cpt obvious | 12:01 |
| nsh | right | 12:01 |
| nmz787 | AdrianG: I took amphetamines prescribed for many years and the concetration isn't maintained | 12:01 |
| AdrianG | nmz787: adhd? | 12:01 |
| kanzure | nsh: randomly fuzzing your brain and breaking things has various benefits for personal development blah blah blah, but that's not the conversation | 12:01 |
| nsh | kanzure, sure | 12:01 |
| nmz787 | there's no rule book that says you need to take nootropics daily | 12:02 |
| AdrianG | ITS LAW | 12:02 |
| nmz787 | you can definitely sustain a weekly trip | 12:02 |
| AdrianG | lol a weekly trip | 12:02 |
| nmz787 | I think psychedelics are more about paradigm transcending or shifting | 12:03 |
| AdrianG | they just demolish your ego | 12:03 |
| AdrianG | so that you are not constrained by your monkey/reptile brain | 12:03 |
| nmz787 | not in all dose levels though | 12:03 |
| AdrianG | its a matter of degree | 12:03 |
| AdrianG | ego death vs ego weakening | 12:03 |
| rdb | not really | 12:03 |
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| kanzure | man, everyone talks about that | 12:03 |
| AdrianG | what else is useful about psychedelics? | 12:04 |
| kanzure | and they all think they are being insightful because they have had trips | 12:04 |
| AdrianG | except unchaining you? | 12:04 |
| nmz787 | like I said, in sub-active doses they merely do things to subconscious rather than modify your whole personality... i.e. make patterns more recognizable | 12:04 |
| AdrianG | nmz787: so ok your brains are loosened up slightly | 12:04 |
| nmz787 | a good book is http://www.amazon.com/Food-Gods-Original-Knowledge-Evolution/dp/0553371304 | 12:04 |
| rdb | in low doses psychedelics are very productive with barely any of the distracting effects | 12:04 |
| AdrianG | whats the difference between a total unravelling | 12:04 |
| AdrianG | and a slight loosening up? | 12:04 |
| nmz787 | AdrianG: worlds of difference | 12:05 |
| rdb | how much experience do you have with psychedelics and different dosages? | 12:05 |
| AdrianG | i dont like psychedelics | 12:05 |
| kanzure | nsh: well so much for the noots conversation. | 12:05 |
| nmz787 | laying on the floor slobbering and making random noises vs in your business office and interacting with society | 12:05 |
| AdrianG | yes it quickly degenerated | 12:05 |
| AdrianG | nmz787: how quickly your amps lost the focus effect | 12:05 |
| rdb | AdrianG, how often have you used psychedelics? | 12:06 |
| AdrianG | rdb: i plead the 5th | 12:06 |
| kanzure | nsh: maybe i am impossible to understand | 12:06 |
| nmz787 | they lost their efficacy after I started high school | 12:06 |
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| AdrianG | nmz787: since grade 1 until high school? | 12:07 |
| nsh | kanzure, sorry, i'm distracted | 12:07 |
| nmz787 | so time-wise it was years, but I agree that it detracted from the rest of my brains development in social/out-of-box thinking | 12:07 |
| nmz787 | grade 4 - 9 | 12:07 |
| nmz787 | but i didn't need them | 12:07 |
| nmz787 | i was misdiagnosed | 12:07 |
| nmz787 | and hated them | 12:07 |
| nmz787 | i hated the high | 12:08 |
| AdrianG | how were u misdiagnosed | 12:08 |
| nmz787 | Nootropics ( /noʊ.əˈtrɒpɨks/ noh-ə-trop-iks), also referred to as smart drugs, memory enhancers, neuro enhancers, cognitive enhancers, and intelligence enhancers, are drugs,supplements, nutraceuticals, and functional foods that improve mental functions such as cognition, memory, intelligence, motivation, attention, and concentration.[1][2] The word nootropic was coined in 1972[3][4] by the | 12:09 |
| nmz787 | from wikipedia | 12:09 |
| kanzure | i think the biggest problem is that all of those things are hard to measure | 12:09 |
| kanzure | so some people conflate concentration with euphoria | 12:09 |
| nmz787 | for instance methadone helps my motivation way more than amphetamine | 12:10 |
| kanzure | there are psychometric tests for each of those topics | 12:10 |
| nmz787 | which is weird, and I haven't used it in years... but amphetamine stopped motivating me when I finally said fuck this drug, because while on it I couldn't be social | 12:10 |
| AdrianG | yeah | 12:10 |
| kanzure | but i'm not 100% convined that the existing psychometric tests measure anything meaningful in the brain | 12:10 |
| AdrianG | its not like amphetamines increase performance in any tests | 12:11 |
| AdrianG | like CPT II, trails AB, etc | 12:11 |
| kanzure | i think it would be more useful if we knew one exact microcircuit that we know can have two types of performance (terrible, and obviously better), and then develop a psychometric test for that | 12:11 |
| AdrianG | supraphysiological doses of thyroxine are probably also nootropic to some extent | 12:11 |
| kanzure | "stroop test" verges on almost pathetic to me :( | 12:11 |
| AdrianG | design something better | 12:12 |
| kanzure | that's what we're talking about, i thought | 12:12 |
| AdrianG | increasing intelligence is hard | 12:12 |
| AdrianG | it'd help to know what makes us intelligent in the first place | 12:13 |
| rdb | intelligence is kind of an abstract concept in itself | 12:13 |
| kanzure | "intelligence" is a load of poop | 12:13 |
| rdb | an umbrella term for an array of cognitive abilities | 12:13 |
| nmz787 | i think biology may be too complex and we don't know enough to pinpoint answers today | 12:13 |
| kanzure | nmz787: "too complex" is hand waving | 12:14 |
| nmz787 | random dosing works for some, and makes lazy bums in others | 12:14 |
| kanzure | "intelligence" and "consciousness" is also handwaving | 12:14 |
| nmz787 | monte carlo is a bitch, but its evolution i guess | 12:14 |
| kanzure | it's not intelligence, it's improved performance of your hippocampal-thalamocortical tract | 12:14 |
| kanzure | (well, no) | 12:14 |
| kanzure | (also, that white matter tract doesn't exist) | 12:15 |
| kanzure | but none of you called me out on that :( | 12:15 |
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| * nsh delves back momentarily | 12:17 | |
| * nmz787 doesn't know about them cellulars | 12:17 | |
| AdrianG | is hyperthymia a nootropic | 12:17 |
| kanzure | AdrianG: i don't think any of the tests you proposed are nootropically-relevant, but maybe i've missed something you can point to? | 12:18 |
| * nsh blinks | 12:18 | |
| AdrianG | kanzure: how arent they nootropically relevant | 12:18 |
| AdrianG | they attempt to measure executive function. | 12:18 |
| kanzure | because "executive function" was defined by psychologists who didn't know about the brain | 12:19 |
| kanzure | i want something based on neuroscience | 12:19 |
| AdrianG | thats an arbitrary whim. | 12:21 |
| nmz787 | so if no good metric exists, I fall back to that we're left to chance | 12:22 |
| AdrianG | so if u do insist on neuroscience | 12:22 |
| kanzure | nmz787: or you make up metrics | 12:22 |
| nsh | there's a law for that | 12:22 |
| AdrianG | look into frontal dementia and executive function tests | 12:22 |
| AdrianG | i doubt anyone will argue frontal lobes are kind of important | 12:22 |
| kanzure | ok sure, if you remove parts of the brain things will happen | 12:23 |
| kanzure | but that's not useful to a nootropic designer | 12:23 |
| kanzure | if you deactive parts of the brain through remote stimulation, that might be somewhat helpful, although that's not a drug and outside the current discussion | 12:23 |
| AdrianG | is ability to direct and deploy the focal point of your attention important to nootropic designers? | 12:23 |
| kanzure | "attention" means what though? | 12:23 |
| * AdrianG sighs | 12:24 | |
| kanzure | please tell me which particular brain system you're talking about hacking, and don't resort to folk psychology | 12:24 |
| AdrianG | the brain is not a lego set. | 12:25 |
| kanzure | nobody says it was | 12:25 |
| AdrianG | and plasma ligands are not a precise enough method | 12:25 |
| AdrianG | to tweak specific systems | 12:25 |
| kanzure | there are many ways to target regions, worst case scenario you get intersecting magnetic fields in the location that you want, where the accumulative field strength blah blah blah | 12:26 |
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| AdrianG | TMG is garbage. | 12:28 |
| kanzure | g? | 12:28 |
| AdrianG | kanzure: u should talk to salamandyr about | 12:28 |
| kanzure | what is psychophysics, again? | 12:29 |
| kanzure | oh, sensor research | 12:29 |
| AdrianG | sry TMS | 12:29 |
| AdrianG | type. | 12:29 |
| AdrianG | typo* | 12:29 |
| kanzure | magnetic stimulation isn't the best example i could have used, that's true | 12:29 |
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| nmz787 | I think life productivity is relative | 12:33 |
| AdrianG | no shit | 12:33 |
| kanzure | i think the "design a better nootropic" test is somewhat relevant | 12:34 |
| nmz787 | some people love making art, and its way productive to them... others love making nanostructures, and making a fuckton of chips is productive to them | 12:34 |
| AdrianG | yeah, good luck integrating a super-computer into your brain | 12:34 |
| kanzure | besides, what's the point of the transhumanist takeoff if it isn't a takeoff | 12:34 |
| nmz787 | either of the two could say the other is missing out on life | 12:34 |
| kanzure | AdrianG: supercomputers-in-a-human-skull aren't step one or necessarily anywhere in your future | 12:34 |
| AdrianG | nmz787: thats the stupidest thing ive heard today | 12:34 |
| AdrianG | obv productivity would be measured on a standard test | 12:35 |
| AdrianG | i.e. your performance. | 12:35 |
| nmz787 | AdrianG: A lot of people think I say stupid things, but its relavant to me | 12:35 |
| kanzure | nmz787: it's not whether or not other people think you are happy | 12:35 |
| AdrianG | anything that boosts cerebral metabolism is going to be nootropical | 12:35 |
| AdrianG | or enhances energy utilization | 12:35 |
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| kanzure | AdrianG: not true; just because you consume energy doesn't mean you're doing anything | 12:35 |
| AdrianG | kanzure: the brain has a limited supply of glucose. | 12:35 |
| AdrianG | understand? limited. | 12:35 |
| kanzure | nmz787: "making art" is cool and all, but can you scale that up a million times? a billion times? | 12:35 |
| nmz787 | right but Richard Feynamn sucked at drawing compared to Jirary Zorthian, and ZOrthian sucked at physics/science (like, totally, he always changed the subject) | 12:35 |
| nmz787 | but they were both great in their own fields | 12:36 |
| * nmz787 lived at the Zorthian ranch years ago | 12:36 | |
| AdrianG | lol wow nmz | 12:36 |
| kanzure | nmz787: most artists seem content to limitations on their artistic creation, so i don't think that's a relevant argument against performance enhancement | 12:36 |
| nmz787 | kanzure: I imagine there are millions or billions of artists living now | 12:36 |
| kanzure | AdrianG: if you look at the studies you will see a decrease in metabolism for increased performance (at least in some scenarios) | 12:37 |
| AdrianG | wat | 12:37 |
| kanzure | nmz787: i don't think you should be concerned with what other people think about you | 12:37 |
| kanzure | nmz787: if you're not interested in personal technological enhancement, it's not a crime | 12:38 |
| nmz787 | kanzure: yeah I'm not really, but I'm trying to get my point across and it seems that AdrianG doesn't see eye to eye | 12:38 |
| kanzure | well, i should say s/enhancement/ability-to-create-more-technology | 12:38 |
| nmz787 | kanzure: i'm interested in personal tech enhancment | 12:38 |
| nmz787 | ! | 12:38 |
| nmz787 | kanzure: that's why I want a DNA synthesizer! to create enzymes to make drugs! | 12:39 |
| nmz787 | to test on some prototype organism to see if they work | 12:39 |
| nmz787 | rather than myself | 12:39 |
| AdrianG | you could implant a meth enzyme in yo brainz :o | 12:39 |
| nmz787 | because as I said, testing on yourself can lead to addiction/toxic problems | 12:40 |
| kanzure | nmz787: i was making comments related to your "live and let live" "performance measurement" comment, sorry if that wasn't clear. | 12:40 |
| nmz787 | kanzure: well retrospect is what I was getting at there | 12:41 |
| nmz787 | kanzure: i.e. if we don't have a good metric /now/, we can only look at a dead person's life history to see if they were productive | 12:42 |
| kanzure | huh? | 12:42 |
| nmz787 | well Shulgin says he started with mescaline... whether that got him interested as a chemist to pursue making more psychedelics I'm not sure | 12:43 |
| kanzure | i don't want to argue for some universal entropic work measurement | 12:43 |
| nmz787 | so what metric could we have used on the day before he took mescaline to see if mescaline would have benefitted him positively or negatively | 12:43 |
| nmz787 | if he wouldn't have taken that, would he have never delved into making more psychedlics, or would he made even better more kickass nootropic-like chems | 12:44 |
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| nmz787 | entropic? | 12:44 |
| kanzure | yes, entropy is one way of measuring work production | 12:45 |
| kanzure | i specifically don't want to argue for some universal work metric | 12:45 |
| nmz787 | i was mentioning him because of your "design a better nootropic" test | 12:45 |
| nmz787 | I would argue he did "design a better nootropic", in fact two books full of them | 12:46 |
| nmz787 | or at least some of them are good | 12:46 |
| kanzure | he seems to be the type of person that would have done that anyway, and not because of any particular drug | 12:46 |
| kanzure | there are many people who write many volumes of books about drugs they have synthesized | 12:46 |
| nmz787 | he's the only one I know of | 12:47 |
| kanzure | what about whitesides, karplus, corey, heeger, gratzel, huber, langer, schleyer, wutrich, bax, bard, lehn, schreiber, ... | 12:48 |
| nmz787 | but you saying he seems to be the type of person to do that anyway doesn't help us ge to a metric | 12:48 |
| kanzure | these are all individuals who have written mountains of literature about synthesis (some percent of which they have synthesized) | 12:48 |
| nmz787 | whitesides made drugs? | 12:48 |
| kanzure | no, i'm just talking about people who write lots of books about chemicals | 12:48 |
| nmz787 | i don't recognize the other names | 12:48 |
| kanzure | independent of drug ingestion | 12:48 |
| kanzure | i'm saying that writing volumes of books about chemicals is not a trait bestowed by some nootropic effect | 12:49 |
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| nmz787 | right, but I'm saying shulgin did attempt and may have succeeded to "design a better nootropic" | 12:50 |
| nmz787 | that was practically his mission statement | 12:50 |
| kanzure | i just remember it getting him high | 12:50 |
| kanzure | i haven't read his books in a long time | 12:50 |
| kanzure | a very long time | 12:50 |
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| kanzure | damn, someone should do cclive/youtube-dl for mediafire and all those other terrible sites | 13:38 |
| kanzure | i guess that has to be me | 13:38 |
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| kanzure | huh, mediafire takes surprisingly little precautions from multiple ip addresses using the same exact authentication tokens | 13:56 |
| kanzure | so what's the point of these "wait to download the file" things if i can just bypass that completely by distributing wget scripts | 13:56 |
| nmz787 | how long is the token good for though | 13:57 |
| kanzure | nmz787: let's try it.. one sec | 13:58 |
| kanzure | nmz787: curl http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/download-android-malware-from-mediafire.sh | bash | 14:00 |
| kanzure | oh uh, | 14:01 |
| kanzure | well, you should probably redirect the output to some file like malware.dat | 14:01 |
| kanzure | so .. curl http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/download-android-malware-from-mediafire.sh | bash > malware.dat | 14:01 |
| nmz787 | http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygreenberg/2012/07/16/hacker-opens-high-security-handcuffs-with-3d-printed-and-laser-cut-keys/ | 14:06 |
| nmz787 | he says he wont release CAD for two of the keys, but the article has an image of the key... so combined with that software for using images to reproduce keys... he kind of released it | 14:06 |
| nmz787 | downloading here | 14:07 |
| kanzure | congratulations you are now the proud owner of 1.5 GB of android malware, trojans and viruses | 14:07 |
| kanzure | there's also this (165 MB, but included in that): wget --user-agent="blah" "http://www.mediafire.com/file/1ch8uzgd9evcawb/Android-Malware_SortedTYPE-MD5.zip" | 14:09 |
| * nmz787 cancelled that download :P | 14:09 | |
| kanzure | ooh CarrierIQ-android-blackberry.zip | 14:09 |
| kanzure | http://www.malgenomeproject.org/ | 14:11 |
| kanzure | "In this project, we focus on the Android platform and aim to systematize or characterize existing Android malware. Particularly, with more than one year effort, we have managed to collect more than 1,200 malware samples that cover the majority of existing Android malware families, ranging from their debut in August 2010 to recent ones in October 2011." | 14:11 |
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| kanzure | "Medre.A is a an AutoCAD worm, written in AutoLISP and is a very unusual piece of malware. It was | 14:21 |
| kanzure | ACAD/Medre.A – 10000′s of AutoCAD files leaked in suspected industrial espionage and the corresponding whitepaper ACAD/Medre.A and ESET technical analysis is here ACAD/Medre.A Technical Analysis" | 14:21 |
| kanzure | http://blog.eset.com/2012/06/21/acadmedre-10000s-of-autocad-files-leaked-in-suspected-industrial-espionage | 14:21 |
| kanzure | http://blog.eset.com/2012/06/21/acadmedre-a-technical-analysis-2 | 14:21 |
| kanzure | "ESET reported Peru and neighboring countries as the target but I noticed that one of the samples' (MD5 25c7e10bb537b4265f6144f2cd7f6d95) original name is 未命名1 ( Unnamed 1), so I wonder if some targets/sources were Chinese speaking." | 14:21 |
| kanzure | http://contagiodump.blogspot.com/2012/06/medrea-autocad-worm-samples.html#more | 14:22 |
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| nmz787 | David House Grand Jury Notes http://pastebin.com/q0hTkwFh | 14:35 |
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| nmz787 | "I notice you are taking notes. Attempting to create your own transcript is a violation of rule 6(e) of this grand jury." | 14:38 |
| kanzure | oh noes | 14:38 |
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| kanzure | cpopell: have you considered using an actual irc client for once | 15:42 |
| kanzure | like, i'd expect you'd be the type of person who would like mibbit | 15:42 |
| cpopell | But I like virc and it doesn't work on win7 >_> | 15:42 |
| kanzure | you keep logging in from the freenode thing | 15:43 |
| cpopell | yeah | 15:43 |
| cpopell | shrug | 15:43 |
| kanzure | "You chose to format sda1 to ext3. All data in that partition will LOSE." | 16:05 |
| kanzure | cfdisk has weird grammar | 16:06 |
| Sanqui | it's to make you read it twice | 16:10 |
| kanzure | wow, android-x86 runs much more smoothly than the other emulated junk | 16:12 |
| AdrianG | any android x86 devices | 16:12 |
| AdrianG | ? | 16:14 |
| kanzure | yes they've been out for a few years | 16:15 |
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| AdrianG | are there any virtualbox VMs you can download with android x86 on it? | 17:12 |
| kanzure | i'm playing with qemu and android-x86-4.0-RC2-eeepc.iso | 17:12 |
| AdrianG | ic | 17:25 |
| kanzure | hrm the "Behavior Genetics Association" site is supposed to have a mailman installation, anyone have the link? | 17:57 |
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| kanzure | hmmm i am getting recruiting emails out the gazoo today | 18:04 |
| kanzure | box.net, airbnb, rockmelt (uughhh) all within 30 minutes | 18:04 |
| kanzure | "The 1,000 Genomes Project now at 130 TB and growing" | 18:10 |
| kanzure | "The Human Microbiome Project now at 10 TB and growing" | 18:11 |
| kanzure | "NASA's Solar Observatory: 1.6 TB per day" | 18:11 |
| kanzure | "CERN's LHD: 60 TB per day" | 18:11 |
| kanzure | "Large Synoptic Survey Telescope: 140 TB per day" | 18:11 |
| kanzure | "Square Kilometer Array: 480 PB per day" | 18:11 |
| gnusha | nanoengineer.git: 2237b68 add chroot instructions to README.md | 18:36 |
| kanzure | gnusha: poke | 18:39 |
| kanzure | i guess nanoengineer.git is missing the postreceive hook | 18:39 |
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| kanzure | https://github.com/kanzure/nanoengineer/commit/2237b682db2b0c55be81eee747a588b2e073bf0b | 18:39 |
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| kanzure | ah he's just slow. | 18:40 |
| kanzure | i guess that might be ikiwiki's fault or something | 18:40 |
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| kanzure | oh look it's perry https://github.com/pmetzger | 18:44 |
| kanzure | he wants to start a facebook group, but so far his only content is me -_- | 18:45 |
| kanzure | https://www.facebook.com/groups/359005944168966/ | 18:45 |
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| --- Log closed Wed Jul 18 00:00:12 2012 | ||
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