| --- Log opened Thu Aug 02 00:00:26 2012 | ||
| nmz787 | if i want to chain cmds together, how can i pipe a filename to them all | 00:01 |
|---|---|---|
| nmz787 | i.e. echo 1.mdwn | sed -i 's/^= /\# /g' | sed -i 's/^== /\## /g' | sed -i 's/^=== /\### /g' | sed -i 's/^==== /\#### /g' | 00:01 |
| nmz787 | or even using && between them | 00:02 |
| kanzure | cat 1.mdwn | sed 's/^= /\# /g' > output.mdwn | 00:02 |
| kanzure | but these sed commands can be compressed into one regular expression | 00:03 |
| nmz787 | nah i want to give the same filename to multiple sed cmds | 00:03 |
| nmz787 | to sub the same number of # for = ? | 00:03 |
| kanzure | yeah i'm trying to remember my regex-foo.. | 00:04 |
| kanzure | there's a way to say repeating | 00:04 |
| kanzure | if it was just digits it would be \d+ | 00:04 |
| nmz787 | + means one or more | 00:05 |
| nmz787 | but that's just to match | 00:05 |
| nmz787 | sed 's/patA/replA/g;s/patB/replB/g;s/patC/replC/g' < infile > outfile | 00:07 |
| nmz787 | apparently that works for what i'm thinking | 00:08 |
| kanzure | well, no, you don't want in/out files in your case | 00:08 |
| kanzure | and using multiple patterns isn't how regular expressions work :P | 00:08 |
| kanzure | nmz787: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/7337995/regex-replace-sequence-of-one-character-with-same-number-of-another-character | 00:11 |
| kanzure | but that's cheating.. they are using perl to get around their regex incompetence | 00:11 |
| gnusha | diyhpluswiki.git: 9f9577b changed file extensions to mdwn and = to # | 00:12 |
| fenn | ug i've been hacking regex minutiae all day | 00:12 |
| fenn | ==(=+) | 00:13 |
| kanzure | damn it fenn | 00:13 |
| kanzure | all too late. | 00:14 |
| nmz787 | yeah i used -i so in-place, except I didn't catch that there was also an = at the end, so i'm removing then manually now | 00:15 |
| kanzure | nmz787: http://diyhpl.us/wiki/diybio/faq/projects/ | 00:15 |
| kanzure | yes.. | 00:15 |
| gnusha | diyhpluswiki.git: 67cde24 removed junk | 00:15 |
| kanzure | ^= should have caught that? | 00:15 |
| kanzure | you can do s/== $//g | 00:16 |
| fenn | there's no mediawiki to markdown converter out there already? | 00:17 |
| fenn | sorry, "wikitext" is the keyword apparently | 00:17 |
| kanzure | mediawiki2markdown.py sucks | 00:18 |
| kanzure | https://github.com/mithro/media2iki/pull/1 | 00:18 |
| kanzure | i compared some of the output in this repository: git://gist.github.com/3231461.git or https://gist.github.com/3231461 | 00:18 |
| kanzure | custom.md is my hand written version, output.md is the mediawiki2markdown.py output, crap/markdownify.md is the markdownify output (given html from openwetware-mediawiki) | 00:19 |
| kanzure | (github will render the markdown or attempt to render .mediawiki) | 00:19 |
| fenn | that gist looks ok | 00:19 |
| kanzure | custom.md should look ok because i manually fixed it up | 00:20 |
| kanzure | honestly the original page was poorly formatted anyway, and that's why it turns out to look like ass in markdown | 00:20 |
| kanzure | jcline had things like fifth-level indentation going on and blockquotes for random sections | 00:20 |
| kanzure | mediawiki/monobook is very good at making a page not look terrible despite its formatting | 00:21 |
| fenn | the immortal words of babbage yet ring true | 00:21 |
| fenn | there's a warm bed waiting for me | 00:21 |
| fenn | good luck with your wiki woes | 00:21 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/laser_etcher/laser_etcher | 00:22 |
| fenn | i saw | 00:22 |
| kanzure | ok good night | 00:22 |
| * kanzure sleeps too | 00:22 | |
| nmz787 | this gets two but not one or three =s | 00:23 |
| nmz787 | sed 's/=+$/\ /g' equipment.mdwn |less | 00:23 |
| kanzure | nmz787: i think the diybio faq needs a bunch of work | 00:23 |
| kanzure | none of the questions here are what people actually ask | 00:23 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/wiki/diybio/faq/ | 00:23 |
| kanzure | like most people want to know what the most important kits are, where to buy taq, what labx/ebay vendors might be okay, etc. | 00:24 |
| kanzure | or they want to know what sort of "glowing" experiments they want to do are (ugh) | 00:24 |
| kanzure | i would recommend using vim or something for the time being.. escape :%s/=== $//g | 00:25 |
| nmz787 | CONFLICT (content): Merge conflict in diybio/faq/kits.mdwn | 00:32 |
| nmz787 | Automatic merge failed; fix conflicts and then commit the result. | 00:32 |
| gnusha | diyhpluswiki.git: c088694 removed trailing =s | 00:36 |
| gnusha | diyhpluswiki.git: 0ba84e0 using theirs | 00:36 |
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| gnusha | diyhpluswiki.git: 4d59f72 remove trailing whitespace in diybio/faq/ files | 08:17 |
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| gnusha | diyhpluswiki.git: 1eafef2 fix bullet list formatting in diybio/faq/equipment | 08:24 |
| gnusha | diyhpluswiki.git: a33ca36 fix some 4th-level headers in diybio/faq/equipment | 08:26 |
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| gnusha | diyhpluswiki.git: a1a0490 fix a few headers and spacing in diybio/faq/methods.mdwn | 08:31 |
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| kanzure | http://stenoknight.com/plover/ploverdemo/assets/dict.json | 09:26 |
| kanzure | lolz recruiters. "well i can't give these guys anyone charging more than $30/hour." | 09:40 |
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| delinquentme | " click " | 10:05 |
| archels | http://2045.com/ | 10:11 |
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| delinquentme | ^^^^^^^^^ | 10:21 |
| kanzure | 2045 was just that russian media blitz.. meh | 10:28 |
| kanzure | "Former Executive Sues Manufacturer of Pill Meant To Rejuvenate Cells" | 10:28 |
| kanzure | "You’re going to be hearing from my attorney,” Brian Egan told his boss on his last day of work, nearly a year ago. Last week, Egan filed a class-action lawsuit that accuses Telomerase Activation Sciences (TA Sciences) in New York of engaging in deceptive business practices in promoting a proprietary herbal extract intended to reverse the effects of aging." | 10:28 |
| nmz787 | delinquentme: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6jtLAnqiiA&feature=player_embedded | 10:28 |
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| delinquentme | LOLOL | 10:29 |
| delinquentme | WAAAAt. | 10:29 |
| kanzure | "But TA Sciences has taken the buzz further: it sells a pill called TA-65, which it says can lengthen short telomeres. The pill brings in an annual revenue of $6 million in the United States alone." | 10:29 |
| kanzure | "he active ingredient of TA-65 was isolated from the herb Astragalus membranaceus and patented by Geron, a biopharmaceutical firm in Menlo Park, CA. Research sponsored by TA Sciences and other companies has shown that the compound can lengthen telomeres in mice 2 and humans 3, but Greider and others are skeptical of the assay used." | 10:29 |
| kanzure | "In May 2011, Patton hired Egan to help to expand TA Sciences’ reach in foreign markets. Egan was required to take TA-65 twice a day, he later wrote in a discrimination complaint, so “that I could tell customers that I was also taking the product, and that it was safe and effective.” Patton denies that it was obligatory." | 10:29 |
| kanzure | "On September 14th, Egan says, he told Patton that he had been diagnosed with Prostate Cancer. The next day, according to Egan, Patton fired him and said that his prostate cancer could ruin the company. Egan says that when he was fired, he was offered a cash settlement "to keep quiet about his cancer," but turned it down" | 10:30 |
| kanzure | hah. | 10:30 |
| nmz787 | geez | 10:30 |
| kanzure | "On September 19th, Egan told a potential TA Sciences partner in SPAIN that he had developed cancer while taking TA-65. Patton and TA Sciences sued Egan for defamation in March, saying that he had lost the company $2 million in sales." | 10:30 |
| nmz787 | hah there are more delinquentme http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=3P9iteczPh4 | 10:31 |
| kanzure | "I can understand that Noel Patton may not be able to say much here; though, I'll give my opinion on the facts given below. Someone was hired in May 2011, and then on September 14, 2011, he found out he had prostate cancer. " | 10:33 |
| kanzure | "Whether this was unfortunate timing or not (or as an unfortunate strategic move), he was fired on September 15, 2011 for meager sales as the reason cited." | 10:33 |
| kanzure | "Would that be too short of a time-frame for a product to cause prostate cancer (my fuzzy brain is saying that prostate cells are one of slowest-growing cancer cells, something to that effect)?" | 10:33 |
| kanzure | "About 25% of people eventually get cancer and most of them overlap the demographic that will be taking TA-65. Even if TA-65 were completely inert and there were no suspected link to cancer, a lot of people taking it would develop cancer and some of them would think the drug caused it." | 10:34 |
| jrayhawk | Yeah, prostate cancer is common, slow, and usually fairly innocuous. | 10:40 |
| gnusha | diyhpluswiki.git: a0b7825 remove some 'please update me' lines from diybio/faq/ pages | 10:40 |
| jrayhawk | though it would not surprise me in least that a product that undermines cellular senescence would cause cancer | 10:42 |
| gnusha | diyhpluswiki.git: fd5e2ba fix bullet formatting in diybio/faq/kits.mdwn | 10:44 |
| kanzure | :9s/\[http\([^ ]*\) \([^\]]*\)/[\2](\1) | 10:51 |
| kanzure | hrmm | 10:51 |
| kanzure | :9s/\[http\([^ ]*\) \([^\]]*\)\]/[\2](http\1) | 10:52 |
| gnusha | diyhpluswiki.git: 03b79f4 convert links in diybio/faq/news.mdwn to markdown | 10:55 |
| gnusha | diyhpluswiki.git: 531eab1 fix three broken markdown links | 10:58 |
| kanzure | not bad --> http://diyhpl.us/wiki/diybio/faq/news | 10:58 |
| gnusha | diyhpluswiki.git: 15d4b49 at least 4 articles about diybio from july 2012 | 11:07 |
| gnusha | diyhpluswiki.git: f920f65 wiremound-pcr news item from ponoko and the journal of peer production issue 2 | 11:13 |
| chris_99 | is there such a thing as a molecular filter | 11:13 |
| chris_99 | that would only allow certain molecules through | 11:13 |
| kanzure | molecular sieve | 11:14 |
| kanzure | or you can look up size-exclusion columns | 11:14 |
| chris_99 | ooh cool thanks :) | 11:14 |
| nmz787 | chris_99: what are you looking to filter? | 11:14 |
| chris_99 | i was just curious, i was wondering if you could filter ethanol but that's probably too complex heh | 11:15 |
| nmz787 | the particles of interest would need to have /some/ difference from the filtrate | 11:15 |
| nmz787 | filter it /from/ what though? | 11:15 |
| chris_99 | water | 11:16 |
| nmz787 | they are very close in width, so a molecular filter likely wouldn't be any use | 11:17 |
| nmz787 | HOH width vs HCH... the length of the molecule could slither through the same pore, so length doesn't really matter | 11:18 |
| nmz787 | but you can filter DNA from Protein in water :D | 11:19 |
| chris_99 | cool :) | 11:23 |
| gnusha | diyhpluswiki.git: 583e574 news links: tz interview w/ cathal garvey, gogofuge, bioart labs, singularityu | 11:25 |
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| gnusha | diyhpluswiki.git: 1423c44 convert diybio/faq/educational.mdwn to markdown (partly) | 11:36 |
| nmz787 | kanzure: http://www.technologyreview.com/business/39597/ | 11:37 |
| nmz787 | from march | 11:37 |
| nmz787 | there's a diybio-ireland list? | 11:38 |
| nmz787 | geez | 11:39 |
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| wzzrope | amazing link | 11:43 |
| gnusha | diyhpluswiki.git: 67fe71d use markdown hyperlinks in diybio/faq/educational.mdwn | 11:44 |
| kanzure | nmz787: yeah the march link was in there | 11:44 |
| kanzure | that same day there was also this fearpiece http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/02/13/e-coli-vials-found-in-arkansas-apartment-used-for-aliment/ | 11:45 |
| kanzure | oh oops, wait. | 11:45 |
| kanzure | no i am pretty sure cathal's technologyview article was from february | 11:45 |
| jrayhawk | by the by, if you decide you don't want local.css in the various repositories, we can add an underlay for it and include that underlay in piny.setup.pl if you want | 11:46 |
| jrayhawk | which would also have the effect of making it global | 11:47 |
| nmz787 | kanzure: yeah it was there | 11:48 |
| gnusha | diyhpluswiki.git: 4301153 convert hyperlinks to markdown in projects.mdwn and fix whitespace | 11:53 |
| kanzure | nmz787: i think the per-region lists are rather silly.. they rarely have any conversations on them, and when they do it's usually something that should be sent to all groups | 11:54 |
| gnusha | diyhpluswiki.git: 236a9ec remove multiple spaces after periods (wtf?) | 11:57 |
| nmz787 | kanzure: i agree | 11:58 |
| gnusha | diyhpluswiki.git: 76def5c convert links to markdwon in diybio/faq/equipment.mdwn | 12:00 |
| kanzure | oh noes a typo | 12:00 |
| kanzure | ! [remote rejected] master -> master (non-fast-forward | 12:01 |
| kanzure | bah.. i guess i disabled that for a reason | 12:01 |
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| kanzure | yashgaroth: hey | 12:02 |
| yashgaroth | hello | 12:02 |
| gnusha | diyhpluswiki.git: cf517b1 fix mangled link markup in equipment.mdwn | 12:05 |
| gnusha | diyhpluswiki.git: 4568f13 fix two mangled links in news.mdwn | 12:05 |
| kanzure | yashgaroth: http://diyhpl.us/wiki/diybio/faq/ | 12:05 |
| kanzure | imo the main faq page is pretty pathetic | 12:05 |
| kanzure | maybe you have some ideas? | 12:06 |
| yashgaroth | hmm | 12:10 |
| yashgaroth | are you mirroring it or co-opting it? cuz if it's the latter you can delete about half of it | 12:11 |
| gnusha | diyhpluswiki.git: da12ec1 remove excess html attributes on elements in diybio/faq.mdwn | 12:11 |
| kanzure | yashgaroth: "co-opting" is such a strong word | 12:11 |
| kanzure | yashgaroth: it was originally my document anyway, and they co-opted it from me | 12:12 |
| yashgaroth | yeah I haven't had enough coffee to think of the more accurate term | 12:12 |
| kanzure | but, they didn't really "co-opt" it, since i was the one who made the most edits to theirs anyway | 12:12 |
| yashgaroth | you know what I mean | 12:12 |
| kanzure | but yes i agree that most of it should be baleeted | 12:12 |
| nsh | "1650s, 'to select (someone) for a group or club by a vote of members,' from L. cooptare 'to elect, to choose as a colleague or member of one's tribe,' from com- 'together' (see com-) + optare 'choose' (see option)." | 12:12 |
| nsh | it's not that hard, historically | 12:13 |
| yashgaroth | why do they have a link to 'the future of food', which was some reactionary luddite bullshit | 12:13 |
| kanzure | not sure | 12:13 |
| kanzure | but it's a link to hulu, so it's probably spam | 12:13 |
| gnusha | diyhpluswiki.git: 1e05ba5 remove hulu spam link | 12:13 |
| nmz787 | lol | 12:14 |
| gnusha | diyhpluswiki.git: 37b628b remove excess directory path jitter from synbiosafe.eu link | 12:15 |
| nsh | "<kanzure> nmz787: -i is edit in place (this is sort of dangerous in sed; but never try "not" editing in place while simultaneously redirecting the output to the input file, this breaks things)" that's either impossible or redundant, surely... | 12:15 |
| kanzure | my point was that doing this is sucky: sed 's/foo/bar/g' < input.txt > input.txt | 12:16 |
| nsh | you just can't | 12:16 |
| kanzure | er.. i mean "cat input.txt | sed 's/foo/bar/g' > input.txt" | 12:16 |
| * nsh nods | 12:17 | |
| nmz787 | wouldn't cat have already done its biz tho by the time it piped? | 12:17 |
| nsh | although if you had a fs IO that used some kind of intelligent versioning maybe... | 12:17 |
| nsh | nmz787, it's done as a stream | 12:17 |
| kanzure | nmz787: our linux gods will have to explain that one because i'm not exactly sure how to explain it | 12:17 |
| nsh | cat sends a byte to sed which tries to send a byte to input.txt | 12:18 |
| nsh | all kinda at once | 12:18 |
| nsh | which makes the baby kernel jesus cry | 12:18 |
| nsh | otherwise you have to have large buffers between processes in a pipe | 12:18 |
| nsh | which is often not what you want | 12:18 |
| kanzure | nsh: if you can whip up some queries with notmuch i'll pull out some faq-worthy emails from diybio.mbox | 12:19 |
| nsh | queries? notmuch? | 12:20 |
| nsh | oh, it's an "email reading system" | 12:20 |
| * nsh investigates | 12:20 | |
| nsh | so | 12:36 |
| nsh | kanzure, looking to craft a query that fishes out emails containing possible FAQworthy questions? | 12:38 |
| * nsh frowns | 12:39 | |
| -!- exiff [~ficl@unaffiliated/exiff] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] | 12:40 | |
| nmz787 | keywords "what how why" | 12:43 |
| nmz787 | seem good to me | 12:43 |
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| nsh | i expect there's already pretty good magic for determining questions with reasonable fidelity | 12:44 |
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| nsh | the more interesting part is classifying them according to FAQiness | 12:44 |
| nsh | so a question from a less-established participant to a more-established participant is more likely to be a faq-y than the converse | 12:44 |
| nsh | faq-y questions will occur more frequently at the beginning of exchanges than in the middle | 12:45 |
| nsh | then you want to be able to semantically cluster so you can get a handle of how "frequent" the question is | 12:45 |
| nsh | major problem is implied context. if you've already been discussing some aspect, then throw in a simple question like "and why do we focus on this?" | 12:47 |
| nsh | takes a lot of humint to work out the full form of the question | 12:47 |
| nsh | kanzure, have you applied notmuch to the mbox^Wmaildir? | 12:50 |
| nsh | wondering if the threading works okay | 12:50 |
| nsh | probably, i'd guess | 12:50 |
| kanzure | no i haven't actually indexed the .mbox | 12:52 |
| nsh | what size is it? | 12:55 |
| kanzure | 22723 emails | 13:00 |
| kanzure | and only 10% are from me :) i am so proud of myself. | 13:01 |
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| * nsh smiles | 13:01 | |
| nsh | is it all public? | 13:01 |
| nsh | can you send me a mbox.bz2 ? | 13:01 |
| kanzure | http://groups.google.com/group/diybio | 13:01 |
| nsh | maybe i can download it from google | 13:02 |
| kanzure | actually my file is a bit stupid because i sometimes label private emails with this label | 13:02 |
| nsh | ah, that's what i thought | 13:02 |
| kanzure | so i need to sort out emails that were not sent to diybio@googlegroups.com | 13:02 |
| * nsh nods | 13:02 | |
| kanzure | i would estimate only 100 emails are non-mailing-list related | 13:02 |
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| kanzure | there's probably some way to do this with grep? if diybio@googlegroups.com does not appear in the file, etc.. | 13:03 |
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| * nsh modifying python mbox filter quickly | 13:06 | |
| kanzure | find . -type f | xargs grep -liE "diybio@googlegroups.com" | 13:09 |
| nsh | kanzure, https://gist.github.com/bea4419816547719fa83 | 13:11 |
| nsh | python formatting might have faffed up in copypaste | 13:11 |
| kanzure | looking | 13:12 |
| kanzure | i see you are a strict adherent to no space after """ | 13:12 |
| nsh | fixed | 13:12 |
| * nsh didn't write it, just changed the passthrough_filter | 13:12 | |
| nsh | attribution implied by google, etc. | 13:13 |
| kanzure | i don't think this is a valid mbox folder | 13:13 |
| kanzure | "1336881267_2.10415.pikachu,U=22696,FMD5=52dc212dd22b9b9b85f706b7002fbfdf:2,S" | 13:13 |
| kanzure | all of the "FMD5" values are the same for most of the files | 13:14 |
| jrayhawk | 'sponge' from moreutils allows you do do things like cat input.txt | sed 's/foo/bar/g' | sponge input.txt | 13:14 |
| nsh | FMD5 should be the md5 of the folder | 13:14 |
| jrayhawk | how the hell do you md5 a "folder" | 13:14 |
| nsh | name | 13:14 |
| nsh | folder name | 13:14 |
| jrayhawk | oh, i guess that vaguely makes sense | 13:15 |
| nsh | mm *shrug* | 13:16 |
| jrayhawk | kanzure: that's maildir format | 13:17 |
| jrayhawk | notmuch doesn't do mbox | 13:17 |
| kanzure | doh | 13:17 |
| kanzure | maybe i should have noticed that the string ".mbox" doesn't appear anywhere | 13:17 |
| jrayhawk | also PCREs are a lot more pleasant than what sed has to offer, so in general I recommend perl -e 's/foo/bar/g' | 13:18 |
| * nsh smiles | 13:18 | |
| nsh | unless you plan to run a million instances | 13:18 |
| kanzure | so i have two files: one with a list of ./cur/blah files and another with a list of ./new/blah files | 13:18 |
| jrayhawk | and cat is not a builtin of bash, so you should really get in the habit of using < | 13:19 |
| kanzure | for x in `cat cur-files.txt`; do cp $x destination/; done | 13:19 |
| kanzure | ^ does that look sane/ | 13:19 |
| ybit | "well that makes sense" i don't know that _means_! | 13:19 |
| ybit | :) | 13:19 |
| ybit | or something like that.. | 13:19 |
| ybit | re: 13:15 < jrayhawk> oh, i guess that vaguely makes sense | 13:19 |
| * kanzure pokes ybit | 13:20 | |
| nsh | kanzure, should probably quote "$x" to be safe | 13:20 |
| kanzure | too late | 13:20 |
| nsh | maildir file names probably don't have funny characters | 13:21 |
| jrayhawk | technically you want while read x; do cp $x destination; done < cur-files.txt | 13:25 |
| jrayhawk | plus quotes where appropriate | 13:25 |
| nsh | that's a bit zealous imo. cur-files is input and makes more sense that the beginning | 13:26 |
| nsh | what's so bad about invoking cat? | 13:26 |
| jrayhawk | Keeping an unbounded array in memory is dumb. | 13:26 |
| nsh | is that what happens? cat reads line by line, doesn't it? | 13:27 |
| nsh | not slurpy | 13:27 |
| jrayhawk | Actually, I guess it is bounded by the kernel command line size limit. | 13:27 |
| nsh | http://serverfault.com/questions/62587/processing-large-files-through-bash-pipes-does-it-buffer | 13:27 |
| jrayhawk | Anyway, the subshell is expanded; that's how subshells work. | 13:27 |
| nsh | oh, i see, the backtick expansion | 13:27 |
| nsh | right | 13:28 |
| nsh | yeah, i'd usually use cat | while read | 13:28 |
| nsh | for large inputs | 13:28 |
| jrayhawk | While pipes are zero-copy, there's still a lot of context switching involved there because cat is not a builtin. | 13:28 |
| nsh | hmm | 13:28 |
| nmz787 | "i'll pipe my subshell expansion in your cat" -- that's what he said | 13:29 |
| jrayhawk | and yes, bash syntax sucks ass, and the fact that the 'right' way to do things is also unintuitive is unfortunate | 13:29 |
| * nsh nods, reads http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2552402/cat-file-vs-file | 13:29 | |
| jrayhawk | start a campaign for the inclusion of zsh in base systems | 13:30 |
| * nsh smiles | 13:30 | |
| nsh | i'd rather chown nsh.nsh *.base | 13:31 |
| nsh | privilege is often easier to attain than permission | 13:32 |
| jrayhawk | ARG_MAX is 2097152 on most systems nowadays, i guess | 13:33 |
| jrayhawk | oh, OS X is still at 262144 | 13:36 |
| jrayhawk | 10.7 specifically | 13:36 |
| kanzure | recruiiiters | 13:37 |
| jrayhawk | did you change your employment status on linkedin or something | 13:37 |
| kanzure | no :( | 13:37 |
| nsh | you can redirect them to me if you like | 13:37 |
| kanzure | my linkedin profile is terrible enough that no recruiter would look at it | 13:37 |
| kanzure | this was the same recruiter, except he got his boss on the line at the agency this time | 13:38 |
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| jrayhawk | did you laugh and hang up when they said "okay, we can go as high as 45/hr!" | 13:40 |
| kanzure | they upped to $110k/year 30 hours/week | 13:40 |
| nmz787 | sounds alright | 13:41 |
| kanzure | but then realized that i was too senior for that | 13:41 |
| jrayhawk | hours per week is always a lie | 13:41 |
| kanzure | so they are going to get "back to me" with "a less embarrassing position" | 13:41 |
| kanzure | yeah i know | 13:41 |
| kanzure | whatever. | 13:42 |
| nmz787 | ARM for $4.99 http://www.ti.com/ww/en/launchpad_site/stellaris.html?DCMP=stellaris-launchpad&HQS=stellaris-launchpad | 13:42 |
| kanzure | jrayhawk: my one true hope is that they realized that i was taking a dump during that phone call | 13:43 |
| jrayhawk | should've made it a video call | 13:43 |
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| kanzure | "let me step into my office.." | 13:43 |
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| kanzure | nsh: any last checks i should run to confirm that i'm not sending you my password in these emails? | 13:46 |
| kanzure | jrayhawk: also is it okay to combine new/ and cur/ into one folder? | 13:47 |
| nsh | hmm, i'd hesitate to recommend putting your password into a grep command... | 13:47 |
| jrayhawk | I don't remember how the maildir format works; I never touch it directly and you probably shouldn't either. | 13:50 |
| kanzure | cat combined.txt | sort | uniq | wc -l is the same as wc -l combined.txt | 13:51 |
| kanzure | so the filenames are unique | 13:51 |
| kanzure | uploading.. | 13:53 |
| kanzure | gee i hope this doesn't include drafts | 13:54 |
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| kanzure | 16% 24MB 110.8KB/s 18:04 ETA | 13:57 |
| jrayhawk | -z might help | 13:58 |
| jrayhawk | err, -C for scp, i guess | 13:59 |
| kanzure | so i'd be compressing a .tar.gz ? | 13:59 |
| jrayhawk | oh, no, sorry. | 13:59 |
| kanzure | and yes i made sure it was .tar.gz this time :( tar -pczf | 14:00 |
| jrayhawk | -J is your friend for tar | 14:00 |
| jrayhawk | far too late to be worthwhile now, though | 14:01 |
| kanzure | man tar says -J is --xz which is extract gunzip? | 14:01 |
| jrayhawk | http://www.google.com/url?q=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xz&sa=U&ei=uuoaUMDsF-OQiAKMqIDQCw&ved=0CB0QFjAC&usg=AFQjCNH3Di_0yLDFyY7Wcp00nO2M-YhHBw | 14:01 |
| jrayhawk | aaaa | 14:01 |
| jrayhawk | goddamn google | 14:01 |
| jrayhawk | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xz | 14:02 |
| kanzure | DCC aborted receiving file mbox-filter.py from nsh | 14:04 |
| kanzure | gaah why would i agree to DCC? | 14:04 |
| nsh | yeah, it was just because i've been getting some audiobooks that way recently | 14:05 |
| jrayhawk | what's wrong with DCC, other than a lack of transport security | 14:05 |
| kanzure | DCC has always been riddled with infinite vulnerabilities and exploits | 14:06 |
| jrayhawk | what how | 14:07 |
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| gnusha | diyhpluswiki.git: 65c95c5 2012-07-25 Bio-hacktivism in DIYbio Asia | 14:08 |
| nsh | implementations of it on irc clients you mean | 14:08 |
| nsh | DCC is a pretty simple protocol iirc | 14:08 |
| jrayhawk | like how can a standard that simple be "insecure" | 14:08 |
| kanzure | maybe i am just remembering mirc dcc | 14:08 |
| nsh | mirc and irsii and xchat have had dcc issues | 14:08 |
| nsh | i think | 14:08 |
| kanzure | 71% 101MB 122.0KB/s 05:35 ETA | 14:09 |
| kanzure | i think i missed some things: | 14:11 |
| kanzure | http://openwetware.org/wiki/DIYbio/BOSSlab/1925x_sterilizer | 14:11 |
| kanzure | http://openwetware.org/images/4/4e/PressureSteriliser.pdf | 14:11 |
| kanzure | http://openwetware.org/wiki/DIYbio/BOSSlab/Notebook | 14:11 |
| kanzure | http://openwetware.org/wiki/DIYbio:Software | 14:12 |
| kanzure | https://github.com/100ideas/ucam | 14:12 |
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| kanzure | nsh: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/diybio.maildir.tar.gz | 14:18 |
| nsh | getting | 14:19 |
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| kanzure | nsh: the best way to find good questions is to search for 1) emails sent by authors who originated <20 previous threads, and 2) in which threads nathan or cathal replied | 14:27 |
| kanzure | (nathan is nmz787) | 14:27 |
| nsh | right | 14:27 |
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| delinquentme | derp derp | 14:31 |
| nsh | what ya derping bout? | 14:32 |
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| nmz787 | :D aww shucks | 15:04 |
| nsh | eh? | 15:05 |
| nmz787 | just kanzure's comment about finding good questions | 15:06 |
| kanzure | i can't find a better pattern | 15:11 |
| kanzure | i guess people tend to put "beginner" in their message text somewhere | 15:11 |
| * nsh still working on extracting questions | 15:16 | |
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| kanzure | . Whereby with SP-PT SWR-RB are SP-RPL -PLTD | 15:20 |
| nsh | gezundheit | 15:21 |
| nsh | 50,000 questions after removing obvious urls and quoted text | 15:24 |
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| nmz787 | give me an example of what you pulled out | 15:31 |
| nmz787 | paste a few one-liners here | 15:31 |
| nmz787 | unless I can see them all at some URL | 15:32 |
| kanzure | crap another recruiter ("duran hcp") | 15:32 |
| kanzure | "well this one is only offering 120.." lolz | 15:32 |
| kanzure | nsh: yeah upload that :P | 15:33 |
| * nsh smiles | 15:34 | |
| nsh | 120 what? | 15:35 |
| kanzure | $120k/year | 15:35 |
| nsh | ah | 15:36 |
| nsh | 36k questions after better quote filtering | 15:36 |
| nmz787 | yeah those beginners sure are dumb | 15:38 |
| nmz787 | :P | 15:38 |
| nmz787 | 36,000 questions and entropy ain't one | 15:38 |
| nmz787 | (don't mind my blabbering... ref to jayz) | 15:38 |
| kanzure | here's a question from today: | 15:39 |
| kanzure | "I am really interested in learning about this stuff and I wanted to know if there was a good step by step log of how to do a simple first experiment and the tools necessary - to maybe make something that glows. " | 15:39 |
| kanzure | "Also, is there a particular book, pdf, wiki, or something else that summarizes things for someone who is not native to biology without having to restart college all over again?" | 15:39 |
| nsh | from a non-biological lifeform? | 15:41 |
| kanzure | wtf they require a drug screen for this position? | 15:41 |
| nsh | wow, you have good penetration | 15:41 |
| kanzure | penetration? | 15:41 |
| nsh | as in, your mailing list has a large demographic | 15:42 |
| nsh | including forms of life not native to biology | 15:42 |
| kanzure | oh from the quote | 15:42 |
| nsh | 16k when filtering for how|is|what|who|where|when|why|will|whether|can|did | 15:42 |
| kanzure | you should do a histogram of author stats and then use that to determine which authors are probably posting questions | 15:43 |
| nmz787 | where do you see non-biological? | 15:43 |
| kanzure | nmz787: "not native to biology" | 15:43 |
| nsh | strange way of saying hasn't studied biology | 15:43 |
| nmz787 | well, logy comes from logos which is knowledge | 15:43 |
| * nsh blinks | 15:44 | |
| nmz787 | so 'not native to knowledge of the bio' | 15:44 |
| kanzure | nmz787: so, obviously what he wants is a kit | 15:44 |
| kanzure | but, having everything shipped to you for $300 seems really silly to me | 15:44 |
| kanzure | how is that diy? | 15:44 |
| nmz787 | i dunno man, i haven't been too into the beginner questions lately | 15:45 |
| kanzure | the faq doesn't actually answer any common questions :P | 15:45 |
| nmz787 | i can update it a bit | 15:46 |
| nmz787 | (i.e. link to carolina) | 15:46 |
| kanzure | i think there might be a carolina link already http://diyhpl.us/wiki/diybio/faq/kits | 15:46 |
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| nsh | it's almost impossible to search for "question" as a thing-in-itself | 15:55 |
| nsh | as people are always asking bloody questions on the internet and talking about the questions that people are asking | 15:55 |
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| nsh | "Question types and some prosodic correlates in 600 questions in the Spontal database of Swedish dialogues" | 15:57 |
| nsh | think that's an audio database though | 15:57 |
| nsh | as they're talking about intonation | 15:57 |
| nsh | http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2007TJSAI..22...93M | 15:58 |
| nsh | nasa might be of some use | 15:58 |
| nsh | well, that pdf is not readable... | 15:59 |
| nsh | kanzure, can you read this: https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/tjsai/22/1/22_1_93/_pdf | 16:01 |
| nsh | i might be missing some fonts | 16:01 |
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| nsh | kanzure, http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/hbase-user/201103.mbox/<AANLkTinukbvb5r269OruXbVhk8dT2V5uyvEjRBwpMMjb@mail.gmail.com> | 16:04 |
| nsh | http://faqcluster.com/ | 16:05 |
| nsh | expect they might be a bit proprietary about their methods | 16:06 |
| kanzure | nsh: they might be scraping pre-existing faqs | 16:07 |
| nsh | http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/mahout-user/201102.mbox/thread?1 | 16:09 |
| nsh | http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/mahout-user/201102.mbox/<4D64872D.8030606@gmail.com> | 16:10 |
| nsh | oh, maybe someone will give me a BSc for this | 16:10 |
| nsh | oh, it's the same guy | 16:11 |
| nsh | (from faqcluster) | 16:11 |
| nsh | maybe just email him | 16:11 |
| kanzure | http://www.core77.com/blog/digital_fabrication/emmanuel_gilloz_foldarap_a_foldable_3d_printer_23061.asp | 16:11 |
| kanzure | http://reprap.org/wiki/FoldaRap | 16:12 |
| kanzure | damn look at all the spam accounts being created: http://reprap.org/mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:RecentChanges&limit=500&days=30 | 16:14 |
| AdrianG_ | kanzure: are there any legit human mods | 16:17 |
| AdrianG_ | like diy plastic surgery | 16:17 |
| AdrianG_ | or nanobot-facilitated plastic surgery | 16:17 |
| kanzure | do you consider steroids legit? | 16:18 |
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| AdrianG_ | kanzure: sure, steroids are old school | 16:19 |
| AdrianG_ | they've been around since like 1940s | 16:19 |
| nsh | definite human modification... | 16:21 |
| nsh | i assume you wouldn't class reading or training as such | 16:21 |
| kanzure | or exoskeletons or prosthetics | 16:21 |
| jrayhawk | magnetic implants seem pretty cool to me | 16:21 |
| nsh | jrayhawk, yeah, saw a nice write-up about them | 16:22 |
| kanzure | oh right he wants body modification | 16:23 |
| kanzure | well, you can always split your penis | 16:23 |
| jrayhawk | a more literal hack than most people want to envision | 16:27 |
| kanzure | i think epitron is the most "modded" out of all of us | 16:29 |
| kanzure | iirc he has a brain shunt | 16:29 |
| kanzure | brownies: other question: any ideas on extracting questions from 20,000 emails? i don't want to pick questions manually for a FAQ | 16:30 |
| brownies | ...search for question marks? | 16:30 |
| kanzure | pfft you know it's not that simple | 16:30 |
| kanzure | especially when most questions don't have question marks | 16:31 |
| AdrianG_ | kanzure: plastic surgery is a billion dollar industry | 16:33 |
| AdrianG_ | nanobots for plastic surgery mods would be an insane money maker | 16:33 |
| kanzure | nanobots don't really exist yet | 16:34 |
| nsh | kanzure, i emailed the guy who did this already | 16:34 |
| nsh | will inform upon reply | 16:34 |
| kanzure | and, if you did have nanobots, a billion dollar industry is not worth your attention | 16:34 |
| kanzure | you would be looking at the hundred billion or trillion dollar industries | 16:35 |
| brownies | well, that's nontrivial | 16:36 |
| brownies | you could look for noun-verb constructions that indicate a question | 16:36 |
| brownies | start by searching for who/where/why/when/what/how | 16:36 |
| brownies | then look for stuff like "who verb noun" in that order... might get you close? | 16:36 |
| kanzure | "Is there a thing to do x." | 16:37 |
| brownies | ah, but, shit, you'll run into places where e.g. who is used as a pronoun | 16:37 |
| kanzure | your search just missed that | 16:37 |
| brownies | kanzure: well, it's better than your search, you lazy fuck, which was "ask in IRC" -_- | 16:37 |
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| brownies | heh, sorry... but i'll go out on a limb and claim that 100% accuracy is likely not a reasonable goal for any sort of quick search | 16:38 |
| kanzure | i seem to recall some genius telling me about fibonacci search | 16:38 |
| kanzure | true | 16:38 |
| brownies | true, i did nail fibonacci search =D | 16:38 |
| brownies | kanzure: btw what's the deal with the UAV market? | 16:40 |
| brownies | i have this nagging feeling i can make UAVs for way cheaper than current market price, is that just me? | 16:40 |
| kanzure | i haven't been keeping track of how much the military pays | 16:40 |
| brownies | i looked up prices for retail/hobbyist UAVs a little while ago, i assume it's similar order of magnitude | 16:41 |
| kanzure | what was the hobbyist pricing? | 16:41 |
| brownies | $10K each, give or take | 16:42 |
| kanzure | hmmm. interesting. | 16:42 |
| nsh | the military pays about 200% of what it costs, on point of principle | 16:45 |
| brownies | "costs" = "costs to build" or "costs" = "costs at retail" ? | 16:46 |
| nsh | most things the military uses aren't available on retail | 16:47 |
| nsh | "Despite the focus and effort dedicated towards reform in the past fifty years, important systemic issues remain unchanged, implying strongly that the acquisition process has a number of built-in, even cultural, aspects that resist change," Fox writes. "These include an irregular and erratic flow of weapons systems appropriations; the very nature of cutting-edge, highly risky research and development; an ill-informed requirements process that virtually | 16:47 |
| nsh | mandates changes to contracts as requirements are added or changed; and financial incentives that reward lowball contractor bids and provide negative sanctions for failing to spend all the allocated funds." | 16:47 |
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| nsh | did they increase freenode's maxchans? | 16:55 |
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| Steel2 | Hmm | 17:40 |
| Steel2 | I like this diet | 17:40 |
| kanzure | https://github.com/kurttomlinson/oProject | 17:48 |
| kanzure | https://github.com/kurttomlinson/oProject | 17:50 |
| kanzure | oops | 17:50 |
| kanzure | so it seems this guy insists that xml is the way to go | 17:50 |
| kanzure | for open source hardware packages | 17:50 |
| kanzure | https://github.com/partkeepr/PartKeepr | 17:51 |
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| nsh | Steel2, what diet? | 17:59 |
| Steel2 | intermittent fasting | 17:59 |
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| jrayhawk | fwiw cyclic ketosis and protein fasting works out better for me than full fasting | 18:00 |
| kanzure | note that jrayhawk is a horse | 18:00 |
| kanzure | wait, no, i got this mixed up | 18:01 |
| jrayhawk | and i suppose it's all secondary to the inflammatory side | 18:02 |
| jrayhawk | beh | 18:02 |
| nsh | jrayhawk, how do you define "works"? | 18:02 |
| nsh | what are the objectives? | 18:03 |
| jrayhawk | I am more functional. Full fasting done on a regular basis downregulates the thyroid, and there's a host of problems associated with that. | 18:03 |
| nsh | by why fast in the first place? | 18:04 |
| nsh | other than lifespan extension and general health | 18:04 |
| jrayhawk | Restoring insulin sensitivity, forcing autophagy, increasing WAT mobilization and ketone adaptation. | 18:04 |
| jrayhawk | The only evidence that any life extension occurs is in rodent models, which strike me as fairly useless. | 18:05 |
| nsh | there's anecdotal evidence | 18:05 |
| nsh | what's WAT mobilisation/ | 18:07 |
| nsh | ? | 18:07 |
| jrayhawk | white adipose tissue | 18:07 |
| strangewarp | hmm. What sort of fasting schedule are you following? I've been considering ketosis-fasting, myself.. | 18:09 |
| Steel2 | jrayhawk: I don't do full fasting | 18:09 |
| Steel2 | I do 16/8 | 18:09 |
| nsh | 16 what to 8 what? | 18:09 |
| nsh | days not eating? | 18:09 |
| Steel2 | 16 hours fasting, 8 hours eating | 18:09 |
| nsh | oh right | 18:09 |
| nsh | was gonna say.. | 18:09 |
| Steel2 | no, I actively weightlift a lot | 18:10 |
| Steel2 | haha | 18:10 |
| * nsh smiles | 18:10 | |
| jrayhawk | FWIW I have heard multiple reports that it's possible to eat a basically unlimited amount of calories from raw beef in a sitting, in case you're having trouble packing a bodybuilder's diet into a compressed eating window | 18:11 |
| jrayhawk | i have not actually tried this myself | 18:11 |
| Steel2 | I'm not having trouble :V | 18:11 |
| Steel2 | also my 'hueg meal' on lifting days is only 2k calories | 18:11 |
| Steel2 | because I'm a short dude | 18:11 |
| nsh | lol | 18:11 |
| jrayhawk | that's a worrying number | 18:12 |
| nsh | i eat 2k calories between meals | 18:12 |
| nsh | probably, i don't actually know what the calorie content of food is because i'm not american and healthy | 18:12 |
| Steel2 | jrayhawk: in what way? | 18:12 |
| Steel2 | nsh: I enjoy food, so I track everything I eat | 18:12 |
| Steel2 | plus I'm trying to pin down my BMR | 18:13 |
| nmz787 | jrayhawk: what's your method ? | 18:13 |
| Steel2 | also breakfast has issues if you're already a lean dude | 18:13 |
| nmz787 | i'm pretty sure i take in under 3k cal/day | 18:13 |
| jrayhawk | Method for which? | 18:13 |
| nmz787 | Steel2: breakfast issue for lean men? | 18:13 |
| nmz787 | jrayhawk: fasting | 18:13 |
| Steel2 | nmz: for lean people in general | 18:14 |
| Steel2 | nmz: how much do you lift? | 18:14 |
| kanzure | this just looks like a disaster: http://www.oshwa.org/2012/08/02/an-important-question-on-the-open-source-hardware-mark/ | 18:14 |
| nmz787 | like 2/7 days you don't eat carbs, and a diff 2 days you don't eat aminos? and the other 3 days are normal? | 18:14 |
| kanzure | osi sent them a letter, and then they failed to reply in time | 18:14 |
| Steel2 | http://www.leangains.com/2012/06/why-does-breakfast-make-me-hungry.html citations at bottom | 18:15 |
| nmz787 | Steel2: I don't lift much these days, but I could be up to 1/2 my body weight in a week or two easily | 18:15 |
| nmz787 | I adapt quickly | 18:15 |
| Steel2 | for which lift | 18:15 |
| Steel2 | O_o | 18:15 |
| nmz787 | which also means i lose it fast | 18:15 |
| nmz787 | oh just benching | 18:15 |
| jrayhawk | Well, I'll say first of all that the benefits of meal timing are marginal compared to anti-inflammatory eating and that you should really be experimenting with the latter before the former, but I typically do something like two weeks of ketosis four times a year, and >18 hour protein fasts maybe once or twice a month, mostly by circumstance. | 18:16 |
| nmz787 | but even for biceps i don't think i've ever gone over 30lbs free weight in a single arm | 18:16 |
| Steel2 | err, there are huge benefits to eating most of your meal right after lifting | 18:16 |
| Steel2 | nmz: Ah, yeah, I'm just outside the competitive range | 18:16 |
| strangewarp | jrayhawk: Hmm.. interesting | 18:16 |
| nmz787 | Steel2: I'm just outside the totally lazy slob range :P | 18:17 |
| Steel2 | basically, if I'm going to go spend an hour doing olympic lifts, I had better provide some fucking carbs afterward haha | 18:17 |
| nmz787 | not really, I've never been one to gain weight much | 18:17 |
| nmz787 | i like working with my body more than i like working out in a gym | 18:18 |
| nmz787 | but yeah thinking of DNA and shit isn't too muscle-dependent | 18:18 |
| Steel2 | eh, I do it all | 18:19 |
| Steel2 | dance, lift, etc. | 18:19 |
| jrayhawk | oh yeah, nmz787, did you guys ever hear back from intel | 18:20 |
| nmz787 | there's a planet fitness a few mins walk from where i'm living in NYC, but i heard it's super crowded | 18:20 |
| nmz787 | but $10/month... haven't been, mainly just been a hermit here so far | 18:20 |
| Steel2 | lol planet fitness | 18:20 |
| Steel2 | I follow the great musclegod Brodin | 18:20 |
| nmz787 | jrayhawk: she heard today that 'they're very interested' but that HR is really slow and they'll let her know next week | 18:21 |
| jrayhawk | huh, that's cool | 18:21 |
| kanzure | hr will never let you know | 18:21 |
| nmz787 | bought my gf climbing shoes last weekend, so planning to go to the climbing gym in the next day or two | 18:21 |
| strangewarp | I just ate half a pint of ice cream... suppose I'll count that as a meal, and hold off on eating for a while ;) | 18:21 |
| * strangewarp must.. stay under.. 1800 cals/day | 18:21 | |
| nmz787 | kanzure: nah the hiring manager talks to them :P | 18:22 |
| jrayhawk | i do not think caloric restriction is a good idea unless you're a figure competitor | 18:22 |
| nmz787 | jrayhawk: i disagree, it also really depends on the type of 'calories' | 18:22 |
| strangewarp | jrayhawk: Trying to stay musician-skinny, yeah | 18:22 |
| Steel2 | jray: 16/8 is fine | 18:22 |
| nmz787 | in the case of ice cream, 'only' about 1/2 of those are hitting you right away | 18:23 |
| kanzure | nmz787: he said "not" | 18:23 |
| nmz787 | kanzure: yeah i think it's a good idea sometimes | 18:23 |
| jrayhawk | or a weight-based competition, which i suppose most martial arts are, these days | 18:24 |
| nmz787 | like if all you have available is white bread and candy... better to starve til you get something more real | 18:24 |
| nmz787 | er substantial | 18:24 |
| jrayhawk | i am all for bad calorie restriction, but not calorie restriction | 18:24 |
| nsh | kanzure, why is the OSI being a dick about a stupid logo? | 18:24 |
| kanzure | nsh: trademark law requires them to maintain their trademark | 18:25 |
| nmz787 | if you're trying to lose weight, i think calorie restriction is a good idea | 18:25 |
| kanzure | nsh: i don't think they're being a dick | 18:25 |
| nsh | kanzure, can they not license it? | 18:25 |
| nmz787 | as long as you keep up with minerals and vitamins and some aminos | 18:25 |
| kanzure | honestly the dickish party here seems to be oshwa | 18:25 |
| kanzure | yes they can license it | 18:25 |
| kanzure | they sent a license to oshwa | 18:25 |
| Steel2 | leangains is actually about leangains, haha | 18:25 |
| nsh | oh | 18:25 |
| kanzure | and oshwa ignored it | 18:25 |
| Steel2 | ie getting bigger, but staying lean | 18:25 |
| nsh | okay, oshwa are dicks then | 18:25 |
| nsh | it's still a storm in a meh-cup | 18:25 |
| kanzure | nsh: oshwa has a history of being like this | 18:25 |
| nsh | ok | 18:26 |
| jrayhawk | if you eat under your hunger level, your body sees this as a stress. the body determines optimal fat homeostasis based upon stresses. people who diet with caloric restriction typically bounce back to a place worse than they started. | 18:26 |
| jrayhawk | you should be working with your body to reduce fat, not against it | 18:26 |
| strangewarp | Yeah, luckily if I eat lightly-CR meals, my body is satisfied with them; I just get the occasional extreme sweets craving, which throws a wrench in things once in a while | 18:27 |
| nmz787 | so if you calorie restrict but think you're at your hunger level, no stress? | 18:27 |
| jrayhawk | It's not really caloric restriction if you eat to satiety. | 18:27 |
| nsh | kanzure, dave vandenbout's solution seems fine | 18:27 |
| strangewarp | So this is about the definition of CR, and not the number of calories, then? | 18:27 |
| nmz787 | i thought CR was based on kj/kg/day vs 'feeling satiated' | 18:28 |
| nsh | body is bit more complex than a ratio | 18:28 |
| Steel2 | jrayhawk, I'm not eating under my hunger level | 18:28 |
| Steel2 | I'm simply getting all my nutrition in a window | 18:28 |
| jrayhawk | Yeah, I'm not that concerned about the compressed eating window. | 18:28 |
| jrayhawk | 2000 is pretty low unless you're, like, a hundred pounds, though. | 18:29 |
| Steel2 | not really | 18:29 |
| Steel2 | I'm 165 | 18:29 |
| nmz787 | so are bulemics and anorexics NOT calorie restricting? B/C they are at their level of satiety? | 18:29 |
| jrayhawk | But hey, I guess not every calorie is equal. If most of it comes from MCTs, you're probably fine. | 18:29 |
| Steel2 | eating too much over 2000 (if I"m not lifting) makes me gain weight | 18:29 |
| Steel2 | if I AM lifting more like 2400, tops | 18:29 |
| jrayhawk | Haha bulemics and anorexics do NOT eat to satiety. | 18:29 |
| nsh | nmz787, psychological satiety is not somatic satiety | 18:29 |
| nsh | bulemics do, they just lose a lot of it afterward | 18:30 |
| nmz787 | i think people def process molecules differently to call all energy input being used equally amongst everyone | 18:30 |
| nmz787 | do diabetics who don't convert glucose to fat expel glucose? | 18:31 |
| jrayhawk | No, typically they die. | 18:32 |
| jrayhawk | unless they carefully avoid glucose. | 18:32 |
| jrayhawk | Glucose is toxic; fat is the biggest glucose capacitor the body has. | 18:32 |
| jrayhawk | If the fat gets insulin resistant and you're still intaking glucose, you better exercise like a motherfucker or else you're dead. | 18:33 |
| jrayhawk | Specifically glycogen-demanding exercise. | 18:33 |
| nmz787 | well obv people don't die immediately of glucose overage... they get poisoned sure, if it's really acute they may go into shock and die | 18:33 |
| nmz787 | but i'm saying toxic level, not coma | 18:33 |
| jrayhawk | It's stored in the liver or in the muscle, or used metabolicly in various tissues, but it isn't expelled until after it's used. | 18:35 |
| nmz787 | hmm | 18:36 |
| nsh | it's like alcohol that you can't piss out | 18:36 |
| nsh | and doesn't get you so fun-drunk | 18:36 |
| jrayhawk | Haha, that's a good analogy. | 18:36 |
| nsh | there was some talk that made it | 18:37 |
| nsh | i think the thesis was "fructose is killing you" | 18:37 |
| jrayhawk | ugh, lustig | 18:37 |
| nsh | ah, you know of it | 18:37 |
| nsh | he seemed a bit evangelical | 18:38 |
| jrayhawk | I like the overall message for lots of other reasons, but his justifications are mostly wrong. | 18:38 |
| * nsh nods | 18:38 | |
| nsh | i don't know much biochemistry | 18:38 |
| nsh | or physiology | 18:38 |
| * kanzure shoes away the philosopher | 18:38 | |
| jrayhawk | fructose being a "dangerously efficient" substrate for denovolipogenesis is based on rodent models that have long been disproven for humans | 18:39 |
| jrayhawk | and claiming that alcohol is a carbohydrate is just embarassing | 18:39 |
| jrayhawk | alkyl groups are not carboxyl groups | 18:39 |
| nsh | can you not derive energy from alcohol? | 18:40 |
| jrayhawk | you can, but the energy pathway is different | 18:40 |
| jrayhawk | ketone bodies aren't carbohydrates either! | 18:40 |
| nsh | ok | 18:40 |
| jrayhawk | but yes, fructose throws off a lot of inflammatory cytokines and takes a lot of chemical machinery and undermines satiety signalling and is generally a bad idea to eat a lot of | 18:42 |
| Steel2 | @jray: there is quite a bit of science behind IF tho, yeh. | 18:42 |
| jrayhawk | do not chug agave nectar | 18:42 |
| jrayhawk | that said, if you really like ketosis, fructose has the interesting quality in that it's unmetabolizable by anything but the liver and will go straight to liver glycogen stores without metabolic side effect up until those stores are full | 18:45 |
| jrayhawk | so your brain and liver can take it easy while the rest of your body remains fully keto-adapted | 18:46 |
| kanzure | this model really confuses me: http://goodwillion.com/dashboard | 18:50 |
| kanzure | so now i have to pay $50 to speak with christine peterson? | 18:50 |
| kanzure | why wont she talk to me for free anymore? | 18:50 |
| nmz787 | Steel2: IF? | 18:51 |
| Steel2 | intermittent fasting | 18:51 |
| nmz787 | kanzure: christina ? | 18:52 |
| nmz787 | er christine? | 18:52 |
| kanzure | nmz787: chris peterson runs foresight institute | 18:52 |
| kanzure | (but has been degenerating into lousy dating advice/life extension advice topics) | 18:53 |
| nmz787 | whats foresight? can't you just email her | 18:53 |
| nmz787 | ? | 18:53 |
| kanzure | yeah i can email her | 18:53 |
| kanzure | but i don't get why i would pay for a conversation | 18:53 |
| jrayhawk | Steel2: Yeah, and, like I said, I like the benefits of IF, I can just get them with less inconvenience elsewhere. | 18:53 |
| Steel2 | ah, it's very convenient for me | 18:54 |
| Steel2 | don't eat until after I work out | 18:54 |
| Steel2 | I work out at lunchtime | 18:54 |
| jrayhawk | Though, out of curiousity, why are you doing weightlifting if you don't want to gain muscle mass? | 18:54 |
| kanzure | nmz787: foresight institute is a nanotech non-profit.. they funded things like the nanofactory animation video | 18:54 |
| kanzure | nmz787: http://foresight.org/ | 18:54 |
| Steel2 | I do want to gain muscle mass, but I want lean gains | 18:54 |
| Steel2 | I want to lose weight | 18:54 |
| Steel2 | I'm already at ~12-13% bf | 18:54 |
| jrayhawk | Okay, well, it's a lot easier to *either* gain muscle mass *or* reduce fat. | 18:55 |
| nmz787 | yeah that goodwillion is weird | 18:55 |
| Steel2 | that's the entire point of leangains, jray | 18:55 |
| Steel2 | lol | 18:55 |
| jrayhawk | Yes, well, taking a year to accomplish what could be done in three months just seems stupid. | 18:56 |
| kanzure | Steel2: jr<tab> | 18:56 |
| Steel2 | this is not my first time round the block of lifting, man. | 18:56 |
| nmz787 | Steel2: what is leangains? | 18:57 |
| jrayhawk | Well, have fun I guess. It's an interesting experiment that I've seen lots of other people try to do. | 18:57 |
| nmz787 | sounds like a trademark | 18:57 |
| Steel2 | www.leangains.com | 18:57 |
| Steel2 | it backs up all its science, etc. | 18:57 |
| Steel2 | another good site (mod of /r/supplements and /r/fitness) is www.silverhydra.com | 18:57 |
| nmz787 | " Below is the EPA component, Eicosapentaenoic Acid.Its about as straight as Gay Pride" | 19:02 |
| nmz787 | lol | 19:02 |
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| kanzure | random diet advice websites are the worst | 19:05 |
| Steel2 | this isn't really random, if you have issues with his science he'd love to hear from you | 19:06 |
| jrayhawk | leangains is actually pretty high up there in terms of reputability | 19:07 |
| kanzure | just give me a list of papers to read | 19:07 |
| Steel2 | he has a list at the bottom of every article | 19:07 |
| nmz787 | one points to this http://jco.ascopubs.org/content/15/4/1377.abstract | 19:07 |
| nmz787 | from the hydra site | 19:08 |
| kanzure | no download link on all those? | 19:08 |
| * kanzure grumbles | 19:08 | |
| Steel2 | also, kanz have you seen examine's page for supplements? | 19:08 |
| kanzure | no | 19:08 |
| Steel2 | run by sh, who (while he slightly dumbs it down for public consumption), knows his shit | 19:08 |
| nsh | moving things about your muscles isn't that interesting really | 19:08 |
| nmz787 | but I don't get how he easily makes the statement that links to that paper "The fatty acids you eat are the fatty acids stored in your fat tissue. If you eat fish oil, you store fish oils. If you eat CLA, you store CLA. You are what you eat in this regard." | 19:08 |
| nsh | if people put as much thought and effort into coordination and finesse as they do into strength, we'd see some improvements to the human condition | 19:09 |
| jrayhawk | "moving things about your muscles" ? | 19:09 |
| Steel2 | http://examine.com/supplements/Piracetam/ etc. | 19:09 |
| nsh | jrayhawk, i mean lifting | 19:09 |
| Steel2 | nsh: define coordination and finesse | 19:09 |
| nsh | Steel2, playing table-tennis | 19:09 |
| jrayhawk | muscle mass determines health outcomes in hospitalizations | 19:09 |
| jrayhawk | more than basically any other variable | 19:09 |
| Steel2 | I dance on top of weightlifting, does that count? | 19:09 |
| nmz787 | nsh: table tennis is boring | 19:09 |
| nsh | Steel2, sure | 19:09 |
| nsh | nmz787, ymmv | 19:09 |
| Steel2 | powerlifting takes TONS of finesse | 19:10 |
| jrayhawk | weightlifting *is* an improvement in the human condition. | 19:10 |
| Steel2 | olympic lifting takes tons of speed | 19:10 |
| nmz787 | reworking an engine requires finesse and strength | 19:10 |
| nsh | ok, i retract | 19:10 |
| nmz787 | rebulding/etc | 19:10 |
| nmz787 | or hang gliding, that probably takes finesse | 19:10 |
| nsh | not sure about the transferability of the attained skillsets though | 19:10 |
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| nsh | may have no leg to stand on here though | 19:11 |
| nsh | brb, sammich | 19:11 |
| jrayhawk | Basal strength is freakin' important to almost any physical activity. There are limits, of course; absolute strength will undermine relative strength, but very few people get to that side of the bell curve. | 19:12 |
| nmz787 | Clin Invest. 2011 Jun;121(6):2094-101. doi: 10.1172/JCI45887. Epub 2011 Jun 1.Adipose tissue remodeling and obesity.Sun K, Kusminski CM, Scherer PE. | 19:14 |
| nmz787 | http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21633177 | 19:14 |
| jrayhawk | nmz787: fun fact about obesity: linoleic acid-stuffed WAT throws off cytokines that cause leptin resistance | 19:16 |
| jrayhawk | which is to say, being obese undermines satiety and insulin sensitivity | 19:17 |
| jrayhawk | which in turn causes obesity | 19:17 |
| nsh | not surprising | 19:17 |
| nsh | i wonder if we've ever had the opportunity, evolutionarily, to consume so much | 19:17 |
| nsh | it may be a novel situation | 19:17 |
| Steel2 | that's also part of what IF is based off of | 19:18 |
| Steel2 | though this is a bit of broscience, just like paleo | 19:18 |
| Steel2 | the concept that we weren't able to eat all day long for most of human history. you gathered, then ate (more or less) | 19:18 |
| jrayhawk | We've never had to work so little for it, certainly, but fruit trees are a good example of prehistoric caloric bonanzas | 19:18 |
| nsh | true | 19:19 |
| foucist | good morning folks | 19:19 |
| nsh | moin | 19:19 |
| nmz787 | this is the first time in human history that poor people have been obese | 19:20 |
| nmz787 | i.e. the last 50 years of people | 19:20 |
| foucist | nah, people didn't really start getting fat till the 90s | 19:20 |
| nsh | solyent green will fix everything | 19:20 |
| foucist | maybe mid-80s | 19:20 |
| foucist | 25 years at the most | 19:20 |
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| nmz787 | well they're past age 50 now | 19:23 |
| nsh | don't follow | 19:23 |
| nmz787 | nsh:http://pdfpirate.org/storage/remove_restrictions/82701825-f638-413f-a38e-cb761d768579/pdfpirate.org_unlocked.pdf | 19:31 |
| nmz787 | that's the extracting questions PDF unlocked | 19:32 |
| nsh | still no text, can you read it? | 19:33 |
| nmz787 | yeah, via copy-paste into google translate | 19:34 |
| nmz787 | lemme put it online | 19:34 |
| nsh | ah, it's not in english | 19:34 |
| nsh | ok | 19:34 |
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| nmz787 | kanzure how do i add a new page to ikiwiki? | 19:35 |
| kanzure | i am unhappy that i don't own pdfpirate.org | 19:35 |
| kanzure | nmz787: from the command line, just make a new file and then do "git add blah.txt" | 19:35 |
| nsh | oh, the new mars rover has a sky-crane | 19:35 |
| nsh | i wonder what dennett thinks | 19:36 |
| kanzure | on the wiki, you can make a link with [[blah]] and then click it, or you can click 'edit' on an existing page, and then change the url to what you want.. | 19:36 |
| jrayhawk | From the web, you can either link to it and then click that link to edit, or you can edit anything and edit the URL bar to change what you're editing | 19:36 |
| jrayhawk | oh sure beat me | 19:36 |
| jrayhawk | see if i care | 19:36 |
| jrayhawk | mister fancypants and his 150 wpm | 19:36 |
| kanzure | 190 wpm >:( | 19:36 |
| kanzure | i didn't go to evil typing school for nothing | 19:36 |
| jrayhawk | http://www.seanwrona.com/typeracer/profile.php?username=kanzure | 19:37 |
| jrayhawk | 150 :mad: | 19:37 |
| nsh | what do you type in these races? | 19:37 |
| nsh | hopefully it's some OCR or something else useful | 19:37 |
| kanzure | haha nope | 19:37 |
| nsh | pft | 19:37 |
| nsh | how indulgent | 19:37 |
| kanzure | the paragraphs are listed on that page | 19:37 |
| kanzure | and yes it's incredibly self-indulgent | 19:38 |
| * nsh steganographises them and wins lots | 19:38 | |
| kanzure | nsh: they make you do a captcha when you have typed 40% faster than your previous races | 19:38 |
| kanzure | and the captcha is some poorly scanned image | 19:38 |
| nsh | ah | 19:38 |
| nsh | man, all this talk of body stuff has made me really hungry | 19:39 |
| nsh | that or it's just the time elapsed since i last ate | 19:39 |
| nsh | hard to tell sometimes | 19:39 |
| jrayhawk | chug coconut oil | 19:39 |
| jrayhawk | coconuts solve everything | 19:39 |
| jrayhawk | EVERYTHING | 19:39 |
| Steel2 | heh | 19:39 |
| Steel2 | I last ate at | 19:39 |
| Steel2 | uh | 19:39 |
| Steel2 | 7:36 | 19:39 |
| Steel2 | I track all this >_> | 19:39 |
| kanzure | Steel2: your tracking is weak! http://fennetic.net/sleep/ | 19:40 |
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| Steel2 | tracking diff data at the moment | 19:40 |
| kanzure | it's not sleep data | 19:41 |
| nmz787 | hmm this is a PITA | 19:41 |
| nmz787 | numbers in the table are coming out in reverse order | 19:42 |
| Steel2 | date, workout, morning weigh on scale #1, morning weigh on scale #2, evening weigh on scale #1, evening weigh on scale #2, calories eaten, protein in g/%, fat in g/%, carbs in g/%, supplementation, tracking methods (Fitocracy, myfitnesspal), end of previous day's fast, start of this day's fast, window period length, amount of time fasted | 19:42 |
| kanzure | i suggest an html table | 19:42 |
| kanzure | oh geeze you use fitocracy | 19:43 |
| kanzure | i didn't know people actually used that | 19:43 |
| Steel2 | a lot of people do in the heavier lifting community | 19:43 |
| kanzure | do you also use fitfu..zoo..fitfoo..blah | 19:43 |
| kanzure | they are all terrible apps | 19:43 |
| Steel2 | fitocracy has a lot of pre-listed exercises which is why it's nice | 19:43 |
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| Steel2 | any baltimore types in here? | 19:50 |
| nmz787 | what type are they? | 19:51 |
| Steel2 | living in that area I meant :P | 19:51 |
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| nmz787 | ic | 19:52 |
| nsh | there's a song about baltimore i've had in my head recently | 19:58 |
| nsh | oh john waters | 19:59 |
| nsh | i mean randy newman | 20:01 |
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| skorket | what's your beef with the air quality egg? | 20:24 |
| yashgaroth | who, me? | 20:25 |
| skorket | anyone | 20:25 |
| nsh | there's an egg that makes quality air? | 20:28 |
| yashgaroth | no no the air quality makes the egg | 20:28 |
| nsh | ahhh, so that's how it began | 20:28 |
| nsh | on a cryptotangentially related note | 20:29 |
| nsh | how do you make minibreadsticks taste like | 20:30 |
| nsh | something | 20:30 |
| nsh | i tried olive oil and balsamic, but it's hard to incorporate | 20:30 |
| nsh | no capillary action | 20:30 |
| yashgaroth | was gonna say salt but that's be even harder | 20:31 |
| nsh | could mash them up a bit | 20:31 |
| nsh | but at that level of effort i could probably just utilise some actual food ingredients to make tasty | 20:31 |
| nsh | difficult one | 20:31 |
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| delinquentme_ | nsh, garlic basil butter salt | 20:48 |
| delinquentme_ | ? | 20:48 |
| nsh | mmm, don't know that we have the first two | 20:50 |
| nsh | probably though | 20:50 |
| nsh | i haven't cooked here yet | 20:50 |
| nsh | or, since some other year | 20:50 |
| delinquentme_ | i mean if you've got any spices you might just toss them on :D | 20:51 |
| delinquentme_ | "italian seasonsing" :P | 20:51 |
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| nsh | it's moot now because i ate them all | 20:55 |
| nsh | and i didn't even have to stand up | 20:55 |
| delinquentme_ | haha | 20:59 |
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| --- Log closed Fri Aug 03 00:00:27 2012 | ||
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