--- Log opened Tue Aug 14 00:00:43 2012 | ||
jrayhawk | http://perfecthealthdiet.com/category/nutrients/vitamin-c/ has a decent treatment of human vitamin C metabolism in case you want to read more about the recycling | 00:03 |
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nmz787 | jrayhawk: can you link to megadosing vitamin C == toxicity | 00:07 |
nmz787 | my dad always seems sick to me, and he always swears vitamin C cures it | 00:07 |
nmz787 | but he /always/ seems sick, or talks about how he just got over being sick | 00:08 |
JayDugger | I'd find that same link interesting, jrayhawk. | 00:09 |
JayDugger | My experience with long-term high doses of vitamin C has yet to show any negative effects. | 00:09 |
JayDugger | Perhaps I look in the wrong place. | 00:09 |
brownies | kanzure: ah. | 00:18 |
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jrayhawk | Well, the DHAA is just a stress on the liver, so it's not that big a deal in and of itself. | 00:23 |
jrayhawk | Long-term high-dose vitamin C has a more insidious effect of keeping your body from experiencing normal oxidative stressors, so no hormetic response is launched and you wind up less prepared for serious problems. | 00:24 |
nmz787 | jrayhawk: from that link's conclusion "The failure of the body to efficiently recycle vitamin C and maintain antioxidant stores on a zero-carb diet is evidence of an evolutionary maladaption to the zero-carb diet." What if we lost/should-lose the ketogenic diet habit because it was causing vitamin C deficiency? | 00:25 |
JayDugger | I don't find the lack of hormetic response a convincing reason to stop taking vitamin C megadoses, | 00:26 |
JayDugger | Stressors come by easily | 00:26 |
JayDugger | enough. | 00:26 |
JayDugger | Such as my puzzling accidental keystrokes that shouldn't have sent a CR, but did. | 00:27 |
jrayhawk | the terrible scourage of vitamin c strikes again | 00:27 |
JayDugger | I think it has more to do with my hand remaining stiff from a nasty cat bite two weeks ago, | 00:28 |
JayDugger | s/,/./ | 00:28 |
JayDugger | Yeah...I think I'll stick to megadoses until I read something much more convincing. | 00:29 |
JayDugger | Although 4g/hour will certainly--how do they phrase it?--reach bowel intolerance. :) | 00:31 |
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jrayhawk | nmz787: ketosis works well for some, less well for others. It's not real clear on what the mechanisms for that are. | 00:32 |
JayDugger | Thank you for the link, jrayhawk. | 00:32 |
brownies | i thought the mechanism was... ketosis. | 00:32 |
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brownies | so, if i understand correctly, the real conclusion is "if you are on zero-carb diets, supplement with vitamin C" | 00:33 |
brownies | ? | 00:33 |
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jrayhawk | I personally do plenty of gluconeogenesis to keep up with the demands of my brain and mucous; haven't measured vitamin C, but I suspect it's the same. | 00:33 |
jrayhawk | Mister Jaminet apparently does not. | 00:34 |
jrayhawk | The more serious conclusion is "if you're doing a zero-carb diet and you suffer from dry eyes, ulcers/stomach cancer, brain fog, and illness, you should probably stop." | 00:35 |
brownies | "if you are doing ____ and it caused cancer, you should stop." is probably a generally valid heuristic | 00:35 |
jrayhawk | well, i guess 'long-term stomach cancer' | 00:36 |
jrayhawk | people get stomach cancers all the time | 00:36 |
brownies | that's interesting though; i had no idea zero-carb diets were so... risky? | 00:38 |
jrayhawk | It might be some sort of metabolic disregulation that keeps gluconeogenesis from getting signalled right. | 00:42 |
jrayhawk | It may also be a fairly recent adaptation to different food sources. | 00:43 |
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nmz787 | i really feel like that page seemed to be talking about rare/anomalous cases | 00:47 |
nmz787 | seems like the shift in foods should be to phototrophs | 00:47 |
nmz787 | there are plenty of 'vegan health' pages too I'm sure, promoting it as the best and longest lived diet, highest life quality | 00:48 |
jrayhawk | grass+cow; a delicious phototroph | 00:48 |
jrayhawk | actually, raw food veganism, in particular, actually has some decent health benefits on account of it avoiding sugar, grains, and seed oils | 00:52 |
jrayhawk | actually actually actually | 00:53 |
jrayhawk | but the meat part of that is orthogonal and eventually problematic | 00:53 |
nmz787 | jrayhawk: what does your last statement mean? | 00:57 |
jrayhawk | as in you can get those same health benefits with a diet that includes non-pathogenic meats, and you get other, different pathologies if you completely abstain from meats. | 00:58 |
jrayhawk | specifically you absolutely need a b12 supplement; you can't get it from whole plant sources. | 00:59 |
jrayhawk | other b vitamins are merely very hard to get from whole plant sources | 01:00 |
nmz787 | so what about the energy efficinency and pollution reduction (less manue/effluent, less methane) | 01:00 |
nmz787 | i guess that's why i reason for "shift the herd" | 01:01 |
nmz787 | i think that's what the genetic pressure should be, for something like transhumanism | 01:01 |
jrayhawk | cellulose grows and cellulose breakdown causes methane release either way...? | 01:01 |
nmz787 | maximize performance/energy | 01:01 |
nmz787 | Our city of 2032 is emitting as much information in a second as Google processes in an hour today: remarkable, but not outrageous in context. What can we do with all those chips? http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2012/08/how-low-power-can-you-go.html | 01:02 |
jrayhawk | what you're proposing is to replace all biology, which seems like a good plan, but also not feasible and also likely to be an emergent outcome of other effort. | 01:02 |
jrayhawk | er... not feasible today | 01:03 |
jrayhawk | i agree that biology is inefficient and dumb and i support our glorious impending hard ai takeoff overlords | 01:03 |
nmz787 | hmm? | 01:04 |
nmz787 | replace biology? | 01:04 |
jrayhawk | you are claiming existing biology is inefficient. i agree. | 01:05 |
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nmz787 | no, i'm just saying evolution works because of random mutation being pressured a certain way.... i feel like the pressure should be towards utilizing phototrophs as energy and nutrient sources | 01:05 |
jrayhawk | haha talking about evolution in this day and age is adorable | 01:05 |
nmz787 | and maybe adding in pathways or fixing broken vitamin C pathways might be a way, but I'm not sure | 01:06 |
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nmz787 | jrayhawk: are you a religious person that doesn't believe in evollution? | 01:06 |
jrayhawk | evolution is an emergent property of mutation and survival of the fittest. this emergent property is irrelevantly slow already today. we are no longer making cultivars, we are engineering them. | 01:07 |
jrayhawk | it will be even more irrelevantly slow in five years. | 01:07 |
nmz787 | i still see that as evolution | 01:08 |
yashgaroth | don't | 01:08 |
nmz787 | the word evolution was used before applied to biology http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=evolution | 01:08 |
brownies | jrayhawk: thanks for the perfect health links... i read the whole series on zero-carb stuff | 01:08 |
brownies | i think he's a little too fast-and-loose with some of his extrapolations, but it's still a solid read | 01:09 |
brownies | conclusions => if you're on zero-carb, then take a multivitamin, salt all the things, and drink buckets of water | 01:09 |
jrayhawk | Jaminet does good research, though his conclusions are a bit colored by his goals. | 01:10 |
nmz787 | yashgaroth: jrayhawk the statement "IBMs product line has evolved through time" seems true to me even though the advances were engineered... there was still folly involved, branching, etch | 01:10 |
nmz787 | s/etch/etc/ | 01:10 |
foucist | noobs.. evolution is incredibly efficient. AI will rely heavily on evolutionary computation and similar algorithms | 01:12 |
* nmz787 likes foucist's comment | 01:13 | |
jrayhawk | evolution-the-biological-theory (or, really, emergent property of two other theories) has more significance in the context of biology than evolution-the-synonym-for-incremental-change, but whatever, i guess it doesn't matter much | 01:13 |
yashgaroth | are you saying you don't believe in the evolution of ibm's product line | 01:14 |
jrayhawk | i believe in intelligent design of ibm's product line | 01:14 |
brownies | haha | 01:15 |
jrayhawk | the marketing department of OS/2 is a culture that should probably be destroyed, though | 01:15 |
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@kanzure | yorick: are you a sympy developer? | 02:10 |
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@kanzure | instead of prophesizing they should prosthetize | 02:58 |
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@kanzure | http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2012/08/yes-we-should-prenatal-sequencing/ | 03:42 |
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@kanzure | blaah why is grandma emailing me about scanadu ughh | 04:18 |
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@kanzure | like she's in-the-know-enough to know about scanadu, but not enough to know how much of a fucking scam tito jankowski is? | 04:18 |
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chris_99 | anyone played hall effect sensors before? | 05:08 |
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@kanzure | what is "%032X" in string formatting speak? | 05:45 |
@kanzure | 32 char-wide somethingsomething? | 05:46 |
ybit | good morning ##hplusroadmap | 06:05 |
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Sanky_ | zero-padded uppercase hex | 06:22 |
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Sanky_ | I *think* (kanzure ^) | 06:22 |
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@kanzure | Sanky_: thank you | 06:33 |
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@kanzure | "Wiley have sent out a press release today to announce that they have changed the licensing conditions of their 'WileyOpenAccess' branded journals. They have now adopted the Creative Commons Attribution (CC-BY) licence." | 07:06 |
chris_99 | cool | 07:09 |
chris_99 | i didn't know Wiley did journals | 07:09 |
@kanzure | wiley interscience is one of the great evils of this world | 07:12 |
Sanky_ | dr. wiley | 07:17 |
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yorick | kanzure: I am not, I'm just in their channel | 08:45 |
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strangewarp | Huh. | 08:57 |
strangewarp | http://requireshate.wordpress.com/2012/08/10/magic-vs-science-the-fucking-singularity-and-anti-intellectualism/ - I agree with this to a startling degree | 08:57 |
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delinquentme | kanzure, talk to me about programming. | 09:12 |
delinquentme | specifically when switching / using multiple languages | 09:12 |
delinquentme | like you're currently on a python swing right? | 09:12 |
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TheEmpath | polyglotness! | 09:51 |
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Mokbortolan_ | (+ LDLPFC)(-RDLPFC) = Clearear thoughts, poorer language ability | 10:18 |
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Mokbortolan_ | (and spelling) | 10:19 |
Mokbortolan_ | at least, cutting and pasting ability | 10:19 |
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TheEmpath | found something helpful http://www.biostat.wisc.edu/~craven/hunter.pdf Molecular Biology for Computer Scientists | 11:48 |
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delinquentme | http://io9.com/5933030/breakthrough-genetic-circuits-bring-us-closer-to-synthetic-human-cells | 12:39 |
delinquentme | ^Breakthrough “genetic circuits” bring us closer to synthetic human cells | 12:39 |
delinquentme | transcription factors ... | 12:45 |
yashgaroth | mhm | 12:45 |
delinquentme | are they promoters? | 12:45 |
yashgaroth | they can be | 12:45 |
delinquentme | ok sweet | 12:46 |
yashgaroth | transcription factor is a broad term for all dna-binding proteins that modify gene expression | 12:46 |
delinquentme | so this new thins basically allows better control over what genes we want to express | 12:46 |
delinquentme | oh! | 12:46 |
yashgaroth | I suppose, though I can only see thumbnails of the figures which doesn't tell me much | 12:47 |
yashgaroth | .fetch http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0092867412007805 | 12:48 |
paperbot | trying to fetch the paper... | 12:48 |
yashgaroth | c'mon paperbot you can do it | 12:49 |
* strangewarp folds paperbot into origami c: | 12:50 | |
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delinquentme | haha pwnt | 12:56 |
delinquentme | yashgaroth, ... what is this witchcraft?! | 12:56 |
yashgaroth | what is what | 12:57 |
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delinquentme | paperbot is fetching papers from scidirect? | 12:57 |
delinquentme | is this something you guys built out? | 12:57 |
yashgaroth | it's kanzure's project | 12:57 |
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yashgaroth | .wik DNA nanotechnology | 12:59 |
paperbot | "DNA nanotechnology (a.k.a. nanomachines) is the design and manufacture of artificial nucleic acid structures for technological uses." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DNA_nanotechnology | 12:59 |
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@kanzure | since when does google scholar do profiles? http://scholar.google.com/citations?user=lJhWHCIAAAAJ&hl=en | 13:06 |
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yashgaroth | seems like they have to sign up for it, still cool though | 13:08 |
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@kanzure | delinquentme: not witchcraft.. papercraft | 13:28 |
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brownies | delinquentme: polyglot questions? | 14:16 |
brownies | kanzure: how do i make paperbot do my bidding? | 14:17 |
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@kanzure | brownies: well, it's very broken right now | 14:17 |
@kanzure | brownies: actually, maybe you have a few ideas.. | 14:17 |
@kanzure | i am happy to write code to download papers, but there's this big pile of javascript that already does that | 14:17 |
@kanzure | http://github.com/kanzure/translators | 14:17 |
@kanzure | but it only works in firefox (the zotero extension) | 14:17 |
@kanzure | it would be nice to harness their momentum instead of reinventing the wheel | 14:17 |
@kanzure | so i was thinking of using substack's browserify or schoolbus.js thing with headless firefox (if such a thing exists), or porting it to phantomjs or something | 14:18 |
@kanzure | zotero's translators.git repository seems to be actively maintained. they fix things when publisher's websites break. | 14:18 |
brownies | i don't think there's headless firefox, but you can capybara using poltergeist, the phantomjs driver | 14:19 |
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@kanzure | brownies: but in that scenario, i'd have to write custom scrapers anyway, in which case why the fuck would i use capybara or poltergeist | 14:20 |
brownies | ohhh i see, firefox is a hard requirement | 14:21 |
brownies | i don't think you can get headless firefox | 14:21 |
brownies | especially not when you're depending on its extension functionality | 14:21 |
@kanzure | i figured as much :/ | 14:23 |
brownies | you could approximate headlessness in some retarded way; e.g. run it remotely on an ubuntu VPS | 14:25 |
Mokbortolan_1 | can anybody find this for me: Enhancement of selective attention by tDCS: interaction with interference in a Sternberg task. | 14:31 |
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@kanzure | brownies: i don't think that's appropriate. i'd rather just write my own scrapers before i'd do that. | 14:32 |
brownies | kanzure: heh. yeah, i don't know.... there's no elegant solutions here, just layers of duct tape. | 14:34 |
Mokbortolan_1 | well, if you put some fiberglass down OVER the duck dape, then paint and polish it, it can look pretty nice! | 14:35 |
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Juul | does anyone know who is behind the rayfish thing? | 15:21 |
Juul | i really like it | 15:24 |
Juul | especially after watching this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-_NQj5HMx0 | 15:25 |
chris_99 | sounds sick to me | 15:25 |
chris_99 | (not in a good way) | 15:25 |
Juul | it's a hoax | 15:25 |
chris_99 | is it? | 15:25 |
Juul | yes | 15:25 |
chris_99 | you're talking about the trainer thing? | 15:26 |
Juul | yes | 15:26 |
chris_99 | how do you know it's a hoax? | 15:26 |
Juul | if you watch the video i just linked, you'll get an idea why they are trying to provoke this response | 15:26 |
chris_99 | i haven't seen the video | 15:26 |
Juul | for one thing, the technology doesn't exist yet | 15:27 |
Steel2 | I think it might be an arg | 15:27 |
Juul | Steel2, possibly | 15:28 |
Juul | it's most likely one of the environmentalism organizations | 15:29 |
Juul | which makes it all the more impressive | 15:29 |
chris_99 | i can't see the point? | 15:30 |
Juul | get people outraged about genetic modification and the poor little rays and then as they are outraged show them that they constantly support companies with much worse business practices and start a debate about genetic engineering | 15:31 |
@kanzure | yawn.. why would i want to debate genetic engineering? | 15:33 |
TheEmpath | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_R._Taylor | 15:34 |
Juul | kanzure, because the general public is afraid and uninformed? | 15:35 |
@kanzure | Juul: the general public isn't going to help you with your genetic engineering projects anyway :) | 15:37 |
Juul | kanzure, true, but they might make it more difficult for me to do them legally | 15:37 |
@kanzure | yes, but you would probably still do it anyway | 15:37 |
@kanzure | i know you :) | 15:37 |
Juul | ssssh! | 15:38 |
@kanzure | oh i mean, yes that will stop you | 15:38 |
Juul | why would i do something if i can't tweet about it! | 15:38 |
Juul | if a tree falls in the forest, and no-one tweets an instagram of it, did it really fall? | 15:39 |
Juul | :P | 15:39 |
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strangewarp | it's me, I'm the tree | 15:48 |
TheEmpath | what the…. you're supposed to be dead! | 15:48 |
strangewarp | I was dead before I was alive so it's cool | 15:53 |
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brownies | i have coffee again... all is well with the world. | 17:25 |
brownies | jrayhawk: i'm seriously considering adding a cup or two of broth to the meal plan, after yesterday's research | 17:25 |
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jrayhawk | bone broth? | 17:41 |
brownies | chicken broth or something | 17:42 |
jrayhawk | Go for bone broth. Glutathione is incredibly important. | 17:43 |
brownies | you know, something ultra-salty | 17:43 |
* brownies googles | 17:43 | |
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brownies | interesting. never seen it/had it before, but i'll look for it at the store next time. | 17:44 |
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brownies | jrayhawk: thanks for the tip | 17:45 |
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@kanzure | brownies: aha! so you *do* go to the store. | 17:52 |
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jrayhawk | sell spotted, mister holmes | 17:54 |
jrayhawk | s/sell/well | 17:55 |
@kanzure | jrayhawk: well, he likes to pretend he just hires people to do those things | 17:55 |
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tashoutang | morning | 18:06 |
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delinquentme | wat. | 18:32 |
delinquentme | http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390444772404577587134096349766.html?mod=e2tw | 18:32 |
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delinquentme | OMG | 18:55 |
delinquentme | THE BEST THING EVER. | 18:55 |
delinquentme | https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=765645 | 18:55 |
delinquentme | man threatens for sue mozilla for 18 grand ... THIS is his website: http://www.constellation7.org/ | 18:55 |
@kanzure | "It is a VAST AMOUNT OF WORK, to rewite every page with this failure." he is doing stylesheets wrong | 18:56 |
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@kanzure | "My hourly rate as CEO of this Corporation is HK$1900 or US$247.00 per hour." | 19:00 |
@kanzure | oh so that's how much i should be charging for grep/sed work these days? hrmm | 19:00 |
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jrayhawk | good lord why is the bugzilla comment text preformatted | 19:12 |
@kanzure | bleh the 300 lines of smali barf that i've been tracing turns out to be just a complicated way of saying "take the md5sum of the input" | 19:13 |
@kanzure | i feel so defeated | 19:13 |
jrayhawk | it sounds like he was doing search and replace by hand | 19:20 |
jrayhawk | doing things by hand makes things better and more special | 19:20 |
@kanzure | i think it's cute that nobody called him out on the .htm/.html thing | 19:20 |
jrayhawk | i think there's a substantial backlog of things to call him out on | 19:20 |
@kanzure | i wonder if he really thinks he's communicating things when he makes the comparisons to microsoft | 19:23 |
@kanzure | obviously he knows nothing of mozilla's ways | 19:23 |
@kanzure | (except super old deprecated style prefixes?) | 19:24 |
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joshcryer | If you are mildly OCD like me doing things by hand is NECESSARY. ;P | 20:08 |
Steel2 | welp, single again | 20:10 |
Steel2 | maybe I should see if lepht wants to go on a date /joke | 20:10 |
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joshcryer | fu Steel2 | 20:25 |
joshcryer | lepht is hot ;P | 20:25 |
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@kanzure | hi nmz787 | 21:41 |
nmz787 | hi kanzure | 21:41 |
nmz787 | kanzure: fenn_ Home CNCing a boat - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nITLI_WcnuM&feature=player_embedded | 21:42 |
nmz787 | Here is the result "Szybkie rowery wodne - Fast pedal boats" -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0cgh-_46IA&list=UUcJmNXm7EUDd9zwRqLv08nA&index=2&feature=plcp | 21:42 |
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nmz787 | kanzure: can you update the CAD FAQ sometime soon? | 22:31 |
@kanzure | with what? | 22:32 |
@kanzure | oh you mean actual content? | 22:32 |
@kanzure | it was mostly meant to be a rant about why blender and animation tools aren't CAD tools | 22:33 |
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ParahSailin__ | i use metafont for cad | 22:36 |
@kanzure | i can never decide between svg and dwf but metafont is a fascinating pick.. | 22:37 |
skorket | kanzure, nmz787, you guys have a laser cutter? | 22:37 |
jrayhawk | mspaint.exe | 22:37 |
@kanzure | skorket: i have a laser cutter somewhere, yeah | 22:37 |
@kanzure | skorket: but we were thinking about building http://diyhpl.us/laser_etcher/laser_etcher | 22:37 |
skorket | ah, yes, you've shown me before | 22:37 |
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skorket | the laser cutter you have is not high enough precision? | 22:38 |
@kanzure | nope | 22:38 |
skorket | what was it, may I ask? | 22:38 |
ParahSailin__ | it was about 6 | 22:39 |
@kanzure | ULS-25ER | 22:39 |
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skorket | what was the resolution and accuracy, if you know? | 22:40 |
ParahSailin__ | 6 su | 22:40 |
@kanzure | it's in the logs somewhere, i forget | 22:41 |
@kanzure | millimeters or worse | 22:41 |
nmz787 | ParahSailin_ 6U?? What? | 22:41 |
skorket | that was because of the laser beam or the gearing/steppers attached to it? | 22:42 |
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nmz787 | Wozniak: Web crackdown coming, freedom failing -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJnghGBBP2Q | 22:42 |
@kanzure | optics, steppers, general suckage | 22:42 |
skorket | how long before you get your new laser cutter up and running? and why not use something off the shelf? | 22:43 |
nmz787 | skorket: uses belts instead of lead screw with high number of threads, doesn't microstep, wrong laser wavelength for spot size we need | 22:43 |
@kanzure | because i don't want to pay $150,000 for an off-the-shelf micron-resolution laser cutter, fuck | 22:43 |
@kanzure | skorket: right now nathan doesn't know where he is going to be living and i'm hesitant to dump cash into equipment when it's just going to be abandoned (it's not cheap to move stuff) | 22:43 |
@kanzure | i'm cranky because i haven't slept in a few days | 22:44 |
nmz787 | skorket: yeah I basically have to settle somewhere, but I just went to a hackerspace in manhattan and they at least have a mill | 22:44 |
* kanzure sleeps | 22:44 | |
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skorket | meaning you want lead screws instead of belts and you want microstepping? | 22:50 |
@kanzure | definitely not belts oh god why aren't i sleeping | 22:51 |
@kanzure | what if i have forgotten how to sleep | 22:51 |
skorket | what's wrong with belts? | 22:51 |
nmz787 | i think there's more slop | 22:52 |
skorket | interesting. | 22:52 |
nmz787 | skorket: do you know about CNC? | 22:53 |
skorket | I just purchased a kit from zen toolworks. I'm trying to get a 'hello world' running right now | 22:53 |
skorket | electronics and steppers I purchased seperately, I just purchased the hardware from zen toolworks | 22:54 |
skorket | it's leadscrew with 1.25 pitch | 22:54 |
skorket | ...so 1.25 pitch, 400 steps per revolution, x16 microstepping gives .00015625 mm resolution? isn't that within shooting range of what you guys need? | 22:56 |
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nmz787 | yeah that's pretty good | 23:22 |
nmz787 | which one did you get? | 23:22 |
nmz787 | fenn_: you around? | 23:23 |
skorket | nmz787, http://www.zentoolworks.com/product_info.php?products_id=74 , ordered without the motors | 23:30 |
skorket | stepper motors: https://www.sparkfun.com/products/10846? , stepper drivers: http://www.pololu.com/catalog/product/1182 | 23:30 |
skorket | with an arduino running grbl for the controller | 23:31 |
skorket | though I hear emc2, aka linuxcnc, is the way to go | 23:31 |
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nmz787 | skorket: I know linuxcnc was thought to be too slow for what we wanted | 23:51 |
nmz787 | skorket: so maybe gbrl is too (trying to find some old notes on the time calcs) | 23:51 |
skorket | what aspect was too slow? | 23:52 |
nmz787 | i guess the parallel port speed which was still stable | 23:53 |
nmz787 | for the cut rate we wanted | 23:54 |
skorket | I'd be interested to see those calculations | 23:54 |
--- Log closed Wed Aug 15 00:00:45 2012 |
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