| --- Log opened Thu Aug 16 00:00:22 2012 | ||
| --- Day changed Thu Aug 16 2012 | ||
| @kanzure | sure. | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| skorket | nmz787, please correct me if I'm wrong, but looking at the datasheet, I see a minimum 'on' pulse and a minimum 'off' pusle of 1 microsecond, which puts it well into the 100s of khz range... | 00:00 |
| tashoutang | :) | 00:01 |
| tashoutang | that is great!!! | 00:01 |
| nmz787 | tashoutang: I am building a laser CNC machine so I can cut microfluidics for a DNA synthesizer | 00:02 |
| nmz787 | skorket: I didn't look at the datasheet yet :P | 00:02 |
| nmz787 | just googled max freq stepper motor, etc | 00:02 |
| brownies | tashoutang: what're the expensive materials that are hard for you to find? | 00:03 |
| brownies | a phd makes it more difficult to find a job? strange. | 00:03 |
| brownies | never heard that one before. | 00:03 |
| nmz787 | brownies: maybe being 'overqualified' | 00:03 |
| nmz787 | skorket: the sparkfun 400 step motor datasheet says nothing about freq or RPM http://dlnmh9ip6v2uc.cloudfront.net/datasheets/Robotics/42BYGHM809.PDF | 00:04 |
| tashoutang | yeah , overqualified and over the ages | 00:04 |
| tashoutang | nmz787: how much do the mature porducts cost you think? | 00:04 |
| brownies | ah, i suppose | 00:05 |
| tashoutang | and can you do some microchips to sequence DNA? | 00:05 |
| brownies | you could always sell your soul to wall street... they love to hire phds | 00:06 |
| nmz787 | but at full-step the speed desired is only 53.49 rpm I believe | 00:06 |
| tashoutang | brownies: I am not that kind of people, | 00:06 |
| brownies | heh. understandable. | 00:07 |
| tashoutang | I do not like that kind of life. | 00:07 |
| nmz787 | tashoutang: looking for the production equipment to cost less than $5k USD, and the synthesizer will require pumps and spectrometers so that will be around $5k-15k USD | 00:07 |
| nmz787 | tashoutang: each chip itself will only cost a few dollars including labor | 00:08 |
| tashoutang | OK, so you can compose the software by yourself? | 00:08 |
| @kanzure | haha yes | 00:08 |
| nmz787 | tashoutang: software programmers are easy to come by, we know a good few in this room | 00:09 |
| nmz787 | software is not so much the issue as experimenting with all the channels and mixing and chemistry stuff | 00:10 |
| tashoutang | have you avoided the potential patents problems? | 00:10 |
| tashoutang | I mean, you know that the biochip patents have been hold by some large companies... | 00:11 |
| skorket | yeah, nmz787, I don't know how to calculate this. It might be worthwhile going over to #diycnc or #linuxcnc and seeing if any of them know how to do it | 00:11 |
| @kanzure | i suggest #linuxcnc | 00:12 |
| nmz787 | yeah i'm gonna check my numbers first | 00:13 |
| nmz787 | lol | 00:13 |
| nmz787 | maybe i didn't do something right | 00:14 |
| nmz787 | before i make an ass of myself | 00:14 |
| tashoutang | oh... you use the limux as the basic environment... | 00:14 |
| tashoutang | linux | 00:14 |
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| tashoutang | brownies: we have PCR machine, optic microscope, autoclave, "Gilson" pipetmen, electrophoresis sets | 00:26 |
| tashoutang | hot plates, ph meters, | 00:27 |
| tashoutang | hood for microbes -80 and -30 freezers | 00:27 |
| tashoutang | 96-well plate elisa reader and 96 well plate washer | 00:28 |
| tashoutang | instruments for human physics testing | 00:29 |
| tashoutang | in the -20 freezers, we have E. Coli | 00:29 |
| tashoutang | colonies. | 00:29 |
| tashoutang | I have been here for a year | 00:30 |
| tashoutang | no idea of how to activate the lab | 00:30 |
| tashoutang | but just keep the lab as a good teaching space | 00:31 |
| nmz787 | so how many people are using all that stuff | 00:31 |
| nmz787 | doesn't the school want to keep it only for their students' use? | 00:31 |
| tashoutang | well, that is a very strange thing ... or problem | 00:32 |
| tashoutang | I am just a master. | 00:32 |
| tashoutang | the professors using this lab include: | 00:32 |
| tashoutang | anatomy, physiology, microbiology, pathology, immunology, pharmocology | 00:33 |
| tashoutang | 6 teachers | 00:33 |
| tashoutang | they just use the equipments for the freshmen in this college. | 00:34 |
| nmz787 | what do you 'master' at the school? | 00:34 |
| tashoutang | as demo some simple exp... | 00:34 |
| tashoutang | pathology | 00:35 |
| tashoutang | molecular pathology | 00:35 |
| tashoutang | in college, I major in life science and chemistry | 00:35 |
| tashoutang | I am in charge of keeping these equipments | 00:36 |
| nmz787 | so your job is like a teaching assitant now? | 00:36 |
| tashoutang | yeah | 00:36 |
| nmz787 | ahh | 00:36 |
| nmz787 | plus lab maintenance? | 00:37 |
| tashoutang | that is right... | 00:37 |
| tashoutang | lab manager?:P | 00:37 |
| nmz787 | so have you found out if you can use the lab during non-teaching hours? | 00:37 |
| nmz787 | for yourself or maybe others too | 00:37 |
| nmz787 | i'm sure for yourself it doesn't seem like too muc of a problem | 00:38 |
| nmz787 | since they trust you already | 00:38 |
| nmz787 | but would be best to ask | 00:38 |
| tashoutang | yeah | 00:38 |
| nmz787 | for other people coming in, I see the school might think about safety issues | 00:38 |
| nmz787 | liability | 00:38 |
| tashoutang | of course they care about that... | 00:38 |
| nmz787 | their equipments getting damaged by new users that arent paying students | 00:38 |
| nmz787 | Fprojects | 00:39 |
| nmz787 | whoops | 00:39 |
| nmz787 | so you're looking for projects to do by yourself? | 00:39 |
| tashoutang | I will be slowing down the pace to activate the equipments... because I still need time to let the teachers trust me more.... | 00:40 |
| tashoutang | yeah | 00:40 |
| tashoutang | and, any posibility to develop some innovative products..... | 00:41 |
| tashoutang | maybe I should read more papers and patents first from USPTO and NIH | 00:42 |
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| tashoutang | transgenic E. coli to produce some products seems a good idea... | 00:43 |
| tashoutang | but still need some columns and equipments to identifying and purifying | 00:44 |
| tashoutang | Biological lab is managed by myself | 00:44 |
| tashoutang | but biochemical lab is managed by two other chemical masters | 00:45 |
| tashoutang | they have HPLC, | 00:45 |
| shiquan | so..? | 00:45 |
| tashoutang | and they have the extraction equipments..... | 00:45 |
| * kanzure sleeps | 00:45 | |
| tashoutang | anyway, | 00:46 |
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| tashoutang | how to get the idea is the most importment thing | 00:46 |
| brownies | i'd like a cat with GFP embedded | 00:47 |
| brownies | i would pay good money for that. | 00:47 |
| tashoutang | green fluorescent protein? | 00:48 |
| tashoutang | why? | 00:48 |
| brownies | because having a glowing cat would be cool | 00:48 |
| brownies | and i could get tons of karma on reddit! | 00:49 |
| tashoutang | well, if you check the keywords "fluorescent fishs and pigs", you will find those have been developed in Taiwan for several years ago.... | 00:52 |
| tashoutang | well, even fluorescent cake... | 00:52 |
| tashoutang | fluorescent mice... | 00:53 |
| nmz787 | cool | 00:54 |
| nmz787 | yeah the HPLC would be awesome to have access to | 00:54 |
| tashoutang | they try to sell the fluorescent fishs to Singapore several years ago... | 00:54 |
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| tashoutang | and the authorities in Singapore worried about those fragments of DNA will be transformed in to other species and thus cause the eco systems being damaged | 00:55 |
| brownies | haha, cool, i had no idea | 00:56 |
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| tashoutang | :) transgenic species acctually are dangerous.... | 00:58 |
| nmz787 | tashoutang: i hope you're joking | 01:12 |
| tashoutang | well, I am not joking | 01:18 |
| tashoutang | Manosanto Inc. forced some countries to accept transgenic corns... and somehow many countries.. specially in Europe still deny those products... | 01:21 |
| tashoutang | I just want to creat some transgenic E. Coli/ yeasts to produce some macro-molecule products but keep these creatures in the Lab.... | 01:27 |
| tashoutang | well, if I can find some targets..... | 01:28 |
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| nmz787 | tashoutang: yeah just make a list of your favorite molecules, and try to find the pathways in metacyc or biocyc | 01:49 |
| tashoutang | you mean channels metacyc? | 01:51 |
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| Utopiah | http://www.reddit.com/r/Futurology/comments/y9lm0/i_am_luke_muehlhauser_ceo_of_the_singularity/ | 06:47 |
| @kanzure | bleh | 07:34 |
| @kanzure | what a bunch of karma whores. | 07:42 |
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| @kanzure | beilstein has released a new app for viewing their journals: | 07:58 |
| @kanzure | https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.beilstein.boa.android | 07:58 |
| @kanzure | "All articles published by the Beilstein-Institut accessed via this App are licensed by the respective authors of such articles for use in accordance with | 08:03 |
| @kanzure | the Creative Commons Attribution License unless otherwise expressly stated." | 08:03 |
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| TheEmpath | I want to propose a thought experiment. | 08:18 |
| @kanzure | no! | 08:18 |
| TheEmpath | ! | 08:18 |
| ParahSailin | sounds dangerous | 08:18 |
| TheEmpath | You guys seem sharp as fuck, I think you might like it! | 08:18 |
| @kanzure | if it's philosophy, and insufficiently thoughtful, you might be banned :P | 08:18 |
| TheEmpath | Then I will take on that risk! | 08:18 |
| TheEmpath | It's related to H+ in a big way | 08:18 |
| @kanzure | bleh | 08:18 |
| TheEmpath | NOW I PRESENT IT | 08:18 |
| TheEmpath | "Create a new emotion." | 08:19 |
| @kanzure | i am going to hate this (and by extension, you) | 08:19 |
| @kanzure | fuck why would i do that | 08:19 |
| TheEmpath | because it's never been done before | 08:19 |
| AdrianG | what kind of worthless experiment is that | 08:19 |
| @kanzure | nobody has rode a lamb from mexico to canada, but that doesn't make it interesting | 08:19 |
| AdrianG | r u dum | 08:19 |
| ParahSailin | you can't ride a lamb, you'd have to ride a llama at least | 08:20 |
| @kanzure | AdrianG: please use your words | 08:20 |
| @kanzure | ParahSailin: i am animal impaired | 08:20 |
| skorket | hot tip: if you keep the power line to your dremel close to the usb line into your arduino running grbl, hilarity ensues! | 08:20 |
| TheEmpath | This thought experiment directly relates to artificial intelligence | 08:21 |
| TheEmpath | Roll back the clock fitty thousand years and we're wandering around bonking each other over the noggin with inefficient weaponry | 08:22 |
| TheEmpath | our complex lexicon is gone | 08:22 |
| TheEmpath | we have some symbology for the common activities, but nothing as complex and abstract as scientific theory | 08:22 |
| TheEmpath | and YET even in this state, we still were able to communicate socially relevent information | 08:23 |
| @kanzure | ugh, screw artificial intelligence | 08:23 |
| TheEmpath | effectively | 08:23 |
| skorket | please stop | 08:23 |
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| skorket | ha! true to your word | 08:23 |
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| @kanzure | skorket: so what's this bias against linux :P | 08:23 |
| skorket | ? I'm biased _for_ linux... | 08:24 |
| TheEmpath | sigh | 08:24 |
| @kanzure | skorket: for your cnc machinery, i mean. | 08:24 |
| @kanzure | propeller, arduino, all this nonsense.. | 08:24 |
| TheEmpath | way to be like the Catholic Churhc, guise | 08:24 |
| skorket | ah...I based my stuff on the shapeoko project, which uses an arduino | 08:24 |
| skorket | When I was putting it together I didn't really know about linuxcnc | 08:25 |
| @kanzure | skorket: honestly i really prefer linuxcnc for cnc projects | 08:25 |
| skorket | now that I do, maybe I'll switch over at some point, but I kind of like having a dedicated micro for the gcode interpretation | 08:25 |
| @kanzure | i think "hey it's just linux, so do normal linux things" is a huge advantage | 08:25 |
| skorket | yeah, it seems like it's a pretty decent system | 08:25 |
| @kanzure | i don't think gcode interpretation is a good idea | 08:25 |
| @kanzure | that's an entirely additional level of software and bugs that i have to write | 08:25 |
| TheEmpath | if you create a new emotion, logic itself is fundamentally altered. http://abusiveoracle.blogspot.com/2012/08/the-immortal-poor.html | 08:26 |
| skorket | but nmz787 was saying something about linuxcnc not being able to keep pace with some of the stuff that he (you?) wants to do | 08:26 |
| @kanzure | yeah i think we can possibly work around that | 08:26 |
| @kanzure | propeller isn't the solution :P | 08:26 |
| skorket | interesting, how are you going to work around it? | 08:26 |
| @kanzure | possibly with bigger steps if necessary | 08:26 |
| skorket | won't that decrease resolution? | 08:27 |
| @kanzure | yes | 08:28 |
| skorket | oh, so you're going to sacrifice resolution for speed? | 08:28 |
| chris_99 | why not just use a faster processor | 08:29 |
| @kanzure | the processor speed is not the problem | 08:29 |
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| skorket | what is the restriction? Some constraint on the parallel port? | 08:31 |
| @kanzure | rt-linux can only do 25ms interrupts | 08:31 |
| chris_99 | could you not write the code without an OS | 08:32 |
| chris_99 | ie. microcontroller | 08:32 |
| skorket | interesting. | 08:32 |
| skorket | ha | 08:32 |
| @kanzure | chris_99: yes, but i'd rather use existing software. | 08:32 |
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| @kanzure | chris_99: i don't really want to write a gcode parser/interpreter, i think that's absurd. | 08:32 |
| @kanzure | gcode is terrible anyway. | 08:33 |
| skorket | grbl seems pretty decent. It doesn't have support for some commands but so far it seems alright | 08:33 |
| @kanzure | i think that's a terrible idea. all i want is to directly control a machine from an actual computer. not something i have to flash/reburn or shit. | 08:33 |
| chris_99 | haha | 08:33 |
| skorket | flash once with grbl... | 08:34 |
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| TheEmpath | async. computer issues commands to a queue, the controller reads off the queue. | 08:34 |
| @kanzure | no, i don't want to flash with grbl. | 08:34 |
| @kanzure | i just want linux. | 08:35 |
| ParahSailin | plug your microcontroller thing into your computer as a peripheral | 08:35 |
| skorket | anyway, I'm really agnostic. I am all for whatever works, and so far, grbl on an arduino is working | 08:35 |
| skorket | I'm happy to move over to linuxcnc when I get around to it | 08:36 |
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| chris_99 | has anyone made a 3D printer out of interest | 08:40 |
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| @kanzure | chris_99: jmil made the 3d tissue printer you read about recently in the news | 08:41 |
| @kanzure | does that count | 08:42 |
| chris_99 | ooh cool | 08:42 |
| @kanzure | fenn made a repstrap? or a mendel? | 08:42 |
| chris_99 | i'm just curious how much they cost to make | 08:42 |
| @kanzure | depends.. in parts <$500 | 08:44 |
| chris_99 | hmm, that's pretty good | 08:45 |
| ParahSailin | jmil's application was actually appropriate for 3d printing | 08:51 |
| ParahSailin | 3d printing as a general fabrication method for plastic parts? a bit slow, no? | 08:51 |
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| @kanzure | ParahSailin: some people prefer it to making plastic injection molding equipment | 09:11 |
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| ParahSailin | i can see that | 09:12 |
| ParahSailin | i just wonder why people prefer it to mills | 09:12 |
| @kanzure | mills are big and bulky (even though they don't really have to be) | 09:12 |
| ParahSailin | or any sort of subtractive machining for plastic | 09:13 |
| @kanzure | plastic sheers (is that the right word?) | 09:13 |
| ParahSailin | im sure you could build a mill for $500 | 09:14 |
| ParahSailin | its not as if reprap is supercheap | 09:14 |
| @kanzure | i agree with you that mills are pretty fun and usable | 09:14 |
| ParahSailin | maybe my use case is just different from that of reprap people | 09:16 |
| @kanzure | probably not | 09:16 |
| @kanzure | btw if you want to watch the reprap riffraff take a look at #reprap | 09:17 |
| ParahSailin | ah, dont want me to rant about it here :) | 09:17 |
| @kanzure | no, i am fine with you ranting | 09:17 |
| @kanzure | i just think #reprap is worth knowing about | 09:18 |
| @kanzure | >350 people doing reprap things | 09:18 |
| @kanzure | another good one is #linuxcnc if you want people with actual equipment :P | 09:20 |
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| AdrianG | kanzure: are there enzymes to grow steroids | 09:27 |
| AdrianG | uh i mean | 09:27 |
| AdrianG | can we modify yeast to grow testosterone | 09:27 |
| ParahSailin | that might be one of the things it's cheaper to use synthetic chemistry to do | 09:28 |
| @kanzure | huh? how is synthetic chemistry cheaper than growing things? | 09:28 |
| @kanzure | i guess extraction and purification has some cost | 09:28 |
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| TheEmpath | the time required to extract, refine, and distribute chemicals go down at a steady rate over time. Has anything been applied to reduce the time required to grow/mature biology to a useful state? | 09:30 |
| @kanzure | yes, that's what an enzyme is? | 09:31 |
| ParahSailin | http://www.aidic.it/ibic2010/webpapers/93Fogal.pdf | 09:31 |
| ParahSailin | "Microbiological transformation of steroids has long been used in industrial synthesis | 09:32 |
| ParahSailin | (Sedlaczek and Smith, 1988)." | 09:32 |
| @kanzure | well, i knew about the synthetic routes for testosterone | 09:32 |
| chris_99 | does anyone know of something similar to a peristaltic pump, but faster | 09:32 |
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| AdrianG | ParahSailin: synthetic chemistry would be cheaper | 10:01 |
| AdrianG | but once the strain is developed | 10:02 |
| AdrianG | it is easier to spread | 10:02 |
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| ParahSailin | it would be nice to have a hGH pichia strain | 10:38 |
| AdrianG | well, isnt most hgh produced by gmo ecoli? | 10:39 |
| ParahSailin | whatever the expression system is, it would be nice to have it :) | 10:42 |
| AdrianG | well | 10:58 |
| AdrianG | read the somatropin patent | 10:58 |
| AdrianG | it has already expired. | 10:59 |
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| chris_99 | http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2012/aug/16/book-written-dna-code | 11:22 |
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| TheEmpath | i'd hit it | 11:53 |
| jrayhawk | http://www.thingiverse.com/tag:grab huh, surprisingly slim pickings | 12:00 |
| jrayhawk | If I got a reprap, the first thing I would do is cover every wall with holds. | 12:01 |
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| jrayhawk | http://thingiverse-production.s3.amazonaws.com/assets/07/c6/a8/8e/ae/bubble_hold.scad looks pleasantly easy to paramterize, though. | 12:02 |
| jrayhawk | parameterize | 12:02 |
| @kanzure | except why bother with an entirely new language? | 12:10 |
| @kanzure | especially one without native support for variables | 12:10 |
| @kanzure | oh, you're climbing things again | 12:11 |
| @kanzure | i will let you be | 12:11 |
| jrayhawk | don't push me or i will start writing things in pov | 12:11 |
| jrayhawk | I'LL DO IT I SWEAR | 12:12 |
| delinquentme | SO. | 12:16 |
| delinquentme | Good idea / Bad idea | 12:16 |
| @kanzure | bad idea | 12:16 |
| delinquentme | writing a letter to someone whos been talking about picking you up to do work... and pushing them to move quicker | 12:16 |
| delinquentme | ( nicely of course ) | 12:16 |
| @kanzure | did they send you the contracts? | 12:16 |
| delinquentme | nah | 12:16 |
| @kanzure | if not, then your letter should include your version of the contracts. | 12:16 |
| delinquentme | so I should find some contracts | 12:17 |
| @kanzure | you should pay a lawyer to write some | 12:17 |
| delinquentme | you have ones I can copy kanz? | 12:17 |
| @kanzure | he will charge you $50 to $200 prolly | 12:17 |
| @kanzure | i would rather you don't copy me because i'm not a replacement for lawyering | 12:18 |
| delinquentme | but you do contract work | 12:20 |
| delinquentme | and what kind of lawyer should I google to find someone who knows wtf is up with contract / software dev | 12:21 |
| @kanzure | contract law. | 12:22 |
| @kanzure | ideally someone in your area. | 12:22 |
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| @kanzure | http://www.webkit.org/coding/coding-style.html#indentation-no-tabs | 13:14 |
| @kanzure | so they want "int main()\n{" but they also want "if {" (with no newline) | 13:15 |
| @kanzure | what a bizarre inconsistency? | 13:15 |
| ParahSailin | legalzoom is a replacement for lawyering | 13:15 |
| brownies | *is not | 13:15 |
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| brownies | kanzure: nice style guide... other than the weirdness with the braces | 13:18 |
| TheEmpath | i prefer if { | 13:18 |
| TheEmpath | people mostly read the intents anyways | 13:19 |
| @kanzure | i tend to put curly-braces on the same line as my statements, but if i put them on a newline i never mix the styles | 13:19 |
| jrayhawk | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdbJP8Gxqog 3d printing large structures with concrete | 13:19 |
| @kanzure | joe are you getting 3d printing fever? | 13:20 |
| @kanzure | there's still that $20,000 up for grabs coming up in december, if someone wants to nail that.. | 13:20 |
| chris_99 | 20k for what? | 13:21 |
| jrayhawk | no i don't really have anything i care enough about prototyping to spend thousands of dollars in materials and man-hours to buy or build a 3d printer | 13:21 |
| @kanzure | chris_99: http://gadaprize.org/ | 13:22 |
| @kanzure | jrayhawk: nerf guns | 13:22 |
| jrayhawk | okay you've convinced me | 13:23 |
| ParahSailin | $20k? | 13:23 |
| chris_99 | intrigueing | 13:23 |
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| ParahSailin | i think that water one is already solved | 13:27 |
| @kanzure | kartik never raised the money for that one | 13:27 |
| @kanzure | so there's no payout on the water prize thing | 13:27 |
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| chris_99 | what wasa the water prize? | 13:28 |
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| minimoose | This could never possibly work here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdbJP8Gxqog | 14:37 |
| minimoose | The presenter, Behrokh Khoshnevis, is forgetting the single most important physical factor that overwhelms all such advantages that 3d printing large concrete structures might have. | 14:38 |
| chris_99 | which is? | 14:38 |
| minimoose | Trade Unions | 14:39 |
| minimoose | You can't even move a paperclip in Philadelphia without the unions picketing and smashing car windows. | 14:39 |
| @kanzure | solution: nuke philadelphia, or don't live there | 14:40 |
| chris_99 | haha | 14:41 |
| strangewarp | Definitely agree that big unions, being based in an economy of jobs and cut off from their revolutionary roots, are inherently against any concept of radical abundance... | 14:41 |
| minimoose | I actually live in the suburbs for that very reason (in part). | 14:41 |
| chris_99 | ok heres a silly idea: would it be possible, to modify yeast to break down alcohol | 14:42 |
| chris_99 | rather than create it | 14:42 |
| @kanzure | you want a alcohol dehydrogenase | 14:43 |
| chris_99 | not heard that term before, but yeah it looks like it | 14:44 |
| yashgaroth | they might do it anyway if you just give them oxygen | 14:44 |
| chris_99 | hmm 'The first ever isolated alcohol dehydrogenase (ADH) was purified in 1937 from Saccharomyces cerevisiae (baker’s yeast).' | 14:45 |
| minimoose | Comcast put up a building in Philadelphia not so long ago. | 14:45 |
| minimoose | Philadelphia is, for example, said to be the only large city in America that doesn’t call for PVC pipe as the standard plumbing material. It still calls for cast iron. PVC is cheaper, lighter and longer lasting. But one plumber can carry 10 lengths of PVC pipe; it takes 10 plumbers to carry a length of cast iron. | 14:45 |
| minimoose | Knowing the power of the trade unions, the developers of the “green” Comcast tower had little option but to strike an absurd deal: The Comcast tower got its new toilets. But only because it also got a full set of old-fashioned pipes, installed by union plumbers. The pipes run throughout all 58 floors, just like in any other skyscraper. | 14:46 |
| minimoose | Except in the Comcast tower, they’re not connected to anything. | 14:46 |
| minimoose | Maybe we can nuke just the unions. | 14:46 |
| strangewarp | If you nuke the unions, you'll have to replace them with universal welfare, or else there will be job riots. | 14:47 |
| minimoose | Universal welfare would be less destructive than paying people to put pipes in buildings that don't need/want them. | 14:47 |
| jrayhawk | or, worse yet, continuous toilet sabotage, then we'll have shit riots | 14:47 |
| strangewarp | That might make for a pretty cool political deal between the left and right, weirdly.. | 14:47 |
| minimoose | Instead of bribing the unions to put in pipe that nobody wants…. just pay them cash and call a payoff a payoff. | 14:49 |
| strangewarp | indeed | 14:55 |
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| ParahSailin | i wouldnt mind repealing certain union monopolies | 15:13 |
| @kanzure | you only say that because you don't benefit | 15:13 |
| @kanzure | hah. | 15:13 |
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| ParahSailin | i'd hate to use a monopoly to mulct people myself | 15:20 |
| @kanzure | minimoose: have you eyeballed this yet? http://github.com/kanzure/nanoengineer#readme | 15:29 |
| minimoose | no, sir… but I will after dinner… back in a bit. | 15:29 |
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| brownies | where is that paperbot ? | 16:47 |
| yashgaroth | .wik paperbot | 16:48 |
| paperbot | "Paperboy is a 1984 arcade game by Atari Games." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paperboy_(video_game) | 16:48 |
| yashgaroth | close enough | 16:48 |
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| brownies | dammit kanzure | 16:55 |
| brownies | document your lazy robot | 16:55 |
| brownies | what's the paperfetching command? | 16:55 |
| yashgaroth | .fetch http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJQqA906Ht4 | 16:56 |
| paperbot | trying to fetch the paper... | 16:56 |
| brownies | ah, thanks yashgaroth | 16:57 |
| brownies | .fetch http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0164121285900068 | 16:57 |
| paperbot | trying to fetch the paper... | 16:57 |
| brownies | well, that was thoroughly disappointing. | 16:57 |
| brownies | ooh, here's a fun idea | 16:58 |
| brownies | eh, never mind. | 16:58 |
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| @kanzure | oh | 17:02 |
| @kanzure | i see you're already on that | 17:02 |
| @kanzure | and, furthermore, i had already disappointed you | 17:02 |
| brownies | nice detective work | 17:03 |
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| seanstickle | paperbot: .fetch http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0164121285900068 | 17:05 |
| @kanzure | .fetch http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0164121285900068 | 17:05 |
| paperbot | trying to fetch the paper... | 17:05 |
| seanstickle | Ah | 17:06 |
| chris_99 | does it have a subscription to sciencedirect? | 17:06 |
| @kanzure | yes | 17:06 |
| seanstickle | Oooh | 17:06 |
| @kanzure | well, no.. | 17:06 |
| seanstickle | D'oooh | 17:06 |
| @kanzure | it's certainly not paying for it ;) | 17:06 |
| chris_99 | heh | 17:07 |
| brownies | to wit, it's not actually doing anything. | 17:07 |
| @kanzure | sorry, i'll fix things | 17:07 |
| @kanzure | i really want to avoid writing custom scrapers when zotero's are all just sitting there, being so peaceful | 17:07 |
| brownies | i think i'll just go about this in the normal way... i'm off to demand a copy from the author. | 17:07 |
| @kanzure | oh, i'll grab it | 17:08 |
| seanstickle | Yay | 17:08 |
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| @kanzure | oh, no, i don't seem to have easy access to this one | 17:10 |
| @kanzure | i would have to actually try | 17:10 |
| seanstickle | Boo | 17:10 |
| ParahSailin__ | who is at pdx.edu | 17:11 |
| @kanzure | paperbot would have failed anyway, because i was testing from the same server | 17:11 |
| @kanzure | ParahSailin__: sssh | 17:11 |
| @kanzure | there are some other servers i have access to, and that paperbot is supposed to try, but again this isn't working entirely | 17:11 |
| @kanzure | also upcoming is an android proxy for college students to run for my personal benefit | 17:11 |
| ParahSailin__ | how so? | 17:12 |
| @kanzure | the idea is that it phone homes to me and then i use that proxy to grab papers (depending on the campus) | 17:13 |
| ParahSailin__ | ah, a botnet to let you download papers? | 17:15 |
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| @kanzure | haha i guess so? | 17:16 |
| seanstickle | ResearchNet | 17:17 |
| chris_99 | what would be the benefit of the user kanzure | 17:17 |
| chris_99 | *to the user | 17:17 |
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| ParahSailin__ | slacktivism | 17:18 |
| seanstickle | If it gets me research papers, you can call it whatever you want. | 17:19 |
| @kanzure | seanstickle: right | 17:19 |
| chris_99 | maybe you should just customise a worm ;) | 17:20 |
| @kanzure | maybe i already have | 17:20 |
| @kanzure | (i haven't) | 17:20 |
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| @kanzure | chris_99: the benefit to the user is that it drains their battery life | 17:22 |
| chris_99 | lol | 17:22 |
| ParahSailin__ | nice http://www.theverge.com/2012/8/16/3247092/judge-to-apple-youre-smoking-crack | 17:22 |
| AdrianG | she's korean | 17:24 |
| AdrianG | she's gonna rep samsung | 17:24 |
| ParahSailin__ | koh isnt a common korean name | 17:25 |
| ParahSailin__ | more commonly the cantonese variant of gao | 17:25 |
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| AdrianG | even worse | 17:29 |
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| AdrianG | ok | 18:07 |
| AdrianG | anyone used 23andme | 18:07 |
| brownies | they're still in business? | 18:08 |
| @kanzure | it depends on what you call business | 18:08 |
| AdrianG | they are backed by billionaire's money | 18:10 |
| AdrianG | plenty of cash to burn thru | 18:10 |
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| @kanzure | AdrianG: so you suspect that all of 23andme's funding comes from him? iirc you're wrong | 18:21 |
| ParahSailin_ | microarrays are pretty cheap once amortized | 18:24 |
| AdrianG | kanzure: im saying if shit hits the fan, he has cash | 18:25 |
| AdrianG | obv they are making some money | 18:26 |
| @kanzure | no they aren't making money | 18:26 |
| ParahSailin_ | who is the billionaire behind them | 18:26 |
| @kanzure | ParahSailin_: her husband | 18:26 |
| ParahSailin_ | her? | 18:26 |
| yashgaroth | sergey brin I think, or the other one | 18:26 |
| ParahSailin_ | oh... | 18:26 |
| @kanzure | from now on i should describe larry page as "the other one" | 18:27 |
| AdrianG | they arent making money? | 18:28 |
| AdrianG | damn | 18:28 |
| @kanzure | no all of their kits are sold at a loss and they try to make it up on subscriptions | 18:28 |
| @kanzure | (or something) | 18:29 |
| @kanzure | or possibly through those nih research grants | 18:29 |
| yashgaroth | they haven't charged me for my subscription in 4 months | 18:29 |
| AdrianG | yashgaroth: cos they changed the billing model | 18:30 |
| AdrianG | subscriptions are no moar | 18:30 |
| AdrianG | its a one shot fee of 300 bux | 18:30 |
| @kanzure | no more subscriptions? | 18:30 |
| AdrianG | yup | 18:30 |
| AdrianG | u just pay upfront now lol | 18:30 |
| ParahSailin_ | oh interesting | 18:30 |
| yashgaroth | works for me | 18:31 |
| @kanzure | and you get unlimited access to their snp data? | 18:31 |
| AdrianG | sounds like it | 18:31 |
| ParahSailin_ | i just missed a coupon code then | 18:31 |
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| AdrianG | not sure if u get unlimited access to ALL of THEIR data | 18:31 |
| AdrianG | certainly yours. | 18:31 |
| @kanzure | no i mean their snp library | 18:31 |
| @kanzure | which they previously published through their subscriber's portal | 18:32 |
| @kanzure | can you give evidence that they have changed their model? | 18:32 |
| yashgaroth | if it's anything like google they'll manage to make billions selling people's snp data to advertisers | 18:34 |
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| @kanzure | minimoose: welcome back | 18:43 |
| minimoose | thanks | 18:43 |
| minimoose | Can I test your journal article magic? | 18:44 |
| @kanzure | go right ahead.. i might have to help it though | 18:44 |
| minimoose | http://www.springerlink.com/content/kw1716u555371764/ | 18:45 |
| minimoose | That's what I want to grab. | 18:45 |
| minimoose | Tell me the syntax again? | 18:45 |
| @kanzure | paperbot doesn't work on springerlink yet, one sec.. | 18:45 |
| minimoose | ahh ok | 18:45 |
| @kanzure | minimoose: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/djfkdadfad.pdf | 18:46 |
| minimoose | The requested URL /~bryan/papers2/djfkdadfad.pdf was not found on this server. | 18:47 |
| @kanzure | oops, try now. | 18:47 |
| minimoose | Thanks so much! | 18:47 |
| @kanzure | "High yield DNA extraction from the snake cast-off skin or bird feathers using collagenase" | 18:47 |
| @kanzure | so is snake gender hard to identify or something? | 18:48 |
| @kanzure | or why did you bring that up | 18:48 |
| minimoose | Yes it is. | 18:49 |
| yashgaroth | the hassle of finding collagenase is greater than the hassle of lower-quality DNA, I'd imagine | 18:49 |
| minimoose | Lots of people keep pet snakes and have no idea the gender. | 18:49 |
| minimoose | Birds tend to be easy to identify by gender. | 18:49 |
| minimoose | Seeing as the males look like male peacocks, and the females look like Helen Thomas. | 18:50 |
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| minimoose | Plus also, my religion: snake handler | 18:53 |
| yashgaroth | "this method using collagenase was more effective than the conventional method (data not shown)." pfffft | 18:53 |
| minimoose | There used to be text on the outside of a bag of snack food: "Fewer calories than you think!" | 18:54 |
| minimoose | Perhaps that statement was true the very first time I checked the calories per serving. | 18:55 |
| minimoose | But in all subsequent purchases of General Mills Bugles, the calorie count was exactly what I thought. | 18:56 |
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| jrayhawk | what a strange advertisement | 18:59 |
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| jrayhawk | "our food contains less food!" | 18:59 |
| minimoose | I was hoping that the statement would be true. | 19:00 |
| minimoose | And that each time I checked the bag, there would be not only fewer calories, but fewer than I was expecting. | 19:00 |
| minimoose | So the 2nd purchase I would be expecting no change, but the calorie count would go down ONE calorie... | 19:01 |
| minimoose | then the 3rd purchase I would be expecting another drop by one calorie, but it would instead be two more... | 19:01 |
| minimoose | etc. | 19:01 |
| minimoose | Alas, the people at General Mills were lying to me. | 19:01 |
| @kanzure | joe's point was that advertising "less calories" is silly in the first place (you are buying food aren't you?) | 19:02 |
| minimoose | Yes, I understand. | 19:02 |
| minimoose | But I was seduced by the false promise. | 19:02 |
| @kanzure | http://github.com/kanzure/nanoengineer#readme might be entertaining | 19:03 |
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| delinquentme | visual diff for 3d models | 19:25 |
| delinquentme | http://cubehero.com/physibles/iamwil/robokitty/history/0cecb53528a7be6eb6236e01f36b7e37dbb260c8/robokitty.stl | 19:25 |
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| brownies | minimoose: perhaps it was marketed primarily towards the extremely forgetful | 19:49 |
| minimoose | very good point | 19:49 |
| minimoose | or perhaps the product included a neural editor that was not working on me | 19:50 |
| brownies | that would be a real step up from the CrackerJack prizes | 19:52 |
| AdrianG | kanzure: i just tried to sign for 23andme | 19:54 |
| AdrianG | and they told me to pay 300 bux instead of subscription | 19:54 |
| @kanzure | no, the subscription comes after | 19:54 |
| AdrianG | 23andMe offers access to the following, at one price with NO subscriptions: | 19:55 |
| AdrianG | Over 200 online health & traits reports | 19:55 |
| AdrianG | The largest genealogical DNA database in the world | 19:55 |
| AdrianG | Updates on new genetic discoveries that are personalized for your DNA by our experts | 19:55 |
| AdrianG | _NO_ subscriptions | 19:55 |
| AdrianG | kanzure: do you know of any specifically diybio chats | 19:55 |
| @kanzure | this is it | 19:55 |
| AdrianG | ppl who actually actively work on some garage bio | 19:55 |
| @kanzure | this is as diybio as you get. | 19:55 |
| @kanzure | that's us. | 19:55 |
| AdrianG | idk i cant tell if anyone here is doing anything practical | 19:55 |
| AdrianG | instead of chatting | 19:55 |
| @kanzure | AdrianG: maybe you should look more closely | 19:55 |
| AdrianG | oic u guiz actually modify bacteria and shiz? | 19:55 |
| AdrianG | i should | 19:55 |
| AdrianG | too busy trollin raw vegans | 19:55 |
| minimoose | In addition to chatting, I am also watching a movie, which I deem to be highly practical. | 19:56 |
| minimoose | Also, I recently let my puppy outside. | 19:56 |
| minimoose | I believe that she produced a biological end product, which was her DIY project for the night. | 19:58 |
| AdrianG | -.- | 20:17 |
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| skorket | how's everybody doing? | 22:00 |
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| foucist | you can't handle the truth! | 22:07 |
| skorket | I, myself, am not doing so well. I just blew out another stepper driver and now have to wait for a new one to come in the mail | 22:07 |
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| skorket | nmz787 isn't around? did he figure out how to calculate the max rpm of a stepper? | 22:10 |
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| @kanzure | hrrm | 22:48 |
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| @kanzure | "So perhaps a neo-credentialist-Keynesian solution would be to have the government print up college degrees for mailing to the 6 million un-degreed unemployed?" | 23:15 |
| brownies | wtf? | 23:28 |
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| strangewarp | Nah, just have the RichKidsOfInstagram take them on as roommates and market it as a reality show, that way it isn't welfare | 23:30 |
| brownies | so this is what grad school is like, huh? http://www.phdcomics.com/comics/archive.php?comicid=1516 | 23:37 |
| @kanzure | infinitely worse | 23:38 |
| @kanzure | that's just day 5 of grad school | 23:38 |
| brownies | at least there's ramen | 23:39 |
| @kanzure | no you have to buy your own | 23:39 |
| foucist | that'd be funny "join our grad school, free ramen!" | 23:40 |
| @kanzure | they usually claim they have free food | 23:40 |
| @kanzure | but that's only on fridays during the seminar | 23:40 |
| @kanzure | and most of the time the food is eaten by the professors anyway | 23:40 |
| * kanzure sleeps | 23:44 | |
| --- Log closed Fri Aug 17 00:00:51 2012 | ||
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