| --- Log opened Tue Aug 21 00:00:00 2012 | ||
| nmz787 | http://wholebraincatalog.org/ | 00:05 |
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| nmz787 | this video is quite good http://www.cwgp.org/drew_berry.php | 00:08 |
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| fenn | i'm a big fan of drew berry's work. downloaded all his stuff, it's around here somewhere.. | 01:27 |
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| fenn | "a day made of glass" is more about touchscreens and gestural interfaces than anything | 01:36 |
| fenn | and, it makes me want to puke. EOM | 01:36 |
| fenn | "3d projection"? wtf is that? | 01:37 |
| fenn | why are there humans driving the cars? | 01:38 |
| fenn | why do the kids have backpacks when they have these super fancy smartphones? | 01:39 |
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| strangewarp | The humans are driving cars because of shitty moral-panic-driven laws against driverless cars | 01:44 |
| strangewarp | The kids have backpacks for bottles of alcohol | 01:44 |
| strangewarp | gosh it's obvious | 01:44 |
| fenn | this video would make a lot more sense if it had been made by samsung | 01:46 |
| fenn | they're already making those see through window displays | 01:46 |
| fenn | "driverless cars" reminds me of "horseless carriage" | 01:47 |
| fenn | if the tablets werent made of glass they wouldnt need cases | 01:47 |
| fenn | and a glass dashboard seems like a terrible idea | 01:48 |
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| nmz787 | fenn, so I heard microstepping is bad if you use a motor that's designed for high holding torque | 02:00 |
| nmz787 | because the magnetic field doesn't fall off from the tooth with the cosine/sine rule | 02:00 |
| fenn | yes, i told you about that a long time ago | 02:02 |
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| fenn | i know the guy who designed the lookup table to compensate for that | 02:03 |
| fenn | same lookup table is used in almost every stepper controller chip, but it's not perfect | 02:03 |
| nmz787 | this guy is where i first saw it http://users.ece.utexas.edu/~valvano/Datasheets/StepperMicrostep.pdf | 02:04 |
| nmz787 | he has a lot of other papers too if you just go up the URL | 02:04 |
| nmz787 | http://users.ece.utexas.edu/~valvano/Datasheets/StepperSelection.pdf | 02:04 |
| nmz787 | well this was saying that you just shouldn't use high-holding torque motors | 02:04 |
| nmz787 | if you want good microstepping | 02:05 |
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| fenn | so you want something like slo-syn instead? | 02:05 |
| fenn | actually i don't know which kind of motors are most linear | 02:06 |
| nmz787 | what's that? | 02:06 |
| fenn | an old motor design you find in a lot of scrapped scientific equipment, it's usually painted grayish teal, and looks like a fat cylinder | 02:06 |
| nmz787 | hmm http://www.contraptor.org/forum/t-273788/micro-cnc-laser | 02:07 |
| fenn | they can be driven by sinusoidal AC or using square waves | 02:07 |
| fenn | heh contraptor, i forgot about that guy | 02:07 |
| nmz787 | so why didn't you choose to build the laser_etcher to look like this? http://cncestablishment.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/cnc-engraving-machine.jpg | 02:08 |
| fenn | i explained all that in the last email | 02:09 |
| fenn | i could be wrong. only one way to find out | 02:09 |
| nmz787 | hmm | 02:10 |
| fenn | the contraptor forum etcher looks pretty good | 02:10 |
| nmz787 | i don't really see an explanation of this particular config | 02:10 |
| nmz787 | you talked about MDF | 02:10 |
| nmz787 | and oil bearings | 02:10 |
| fenn | okay what is the exact question then? | 02:10 |
| nmz787 | well that image that i just posted *looks* different than your SCAD rendering | 02:11 |
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| fenn | in many ways | 02:11 |
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| fenn | it's not a rendering, for one | 02:12 |
| nmz787 | uhh | 02:12 |
| nmz787 | a screenshot of a rendering? | 02:12 |
| fenn | you mean why do i have two sets of ways bolted to the same plate? | 02:13 |
| fenn | or "why didnt you make a gantry router" | 02:13 |
| nmz787 | well they both apply | 02:13 |
| fenn | (also those things suck as routers) | 02:13 |
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| nmz787 | yeah so both of those questions | 02:13 |
| fenn | 1) for rigidity, 2) i thought it would be better to keep the laser tube stationary if we decided to use a CO2 laser | 02:14 |
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| fenn | adding flying optics would complicate the design | 02:15 |
| nmz787 | sure | 02:15 |
| nmz787 | so is that model complete? | 02:16 |
| fenn | no | 02:16 |
| nmz787 | if I got openSCAD running could I follow it as a pictorial guide to getting it together? | 02:16 |
| fenn | yes | 02:16 |
| fenn | you'd have to calculate some dimensions though | 02:16 |
| fenn | as far as i can tell there are no "measure this distance" tools in openscad | 02:16 |
| nmz787 | so what's missing, if its not completer | 02:16 |
| nmz787 | complete* | 02:16 |
| nmz787 | or is it those exact distances that is missing? | 02:17 |
| fenn | it's missing the top and bottom plates, the bolt hole locations, the leadscrews and leadnuts and bearing mounts and stepper motor mounts, and it needs some kind of right angle bracket to hold the laser optics | 02:17 |
| nmz787 | did you just eyeball the structure with no real measurments? | 02:17 |
| fenn | the structure is eyeballed, but the parts are modeled after real parts (or the provided cad drawings at least) | 02:18 |
| fenn | it should look like the rendering if built to the dimensions in the openscad file | 02:18 |
| nmz787 | for the optics you mean anything that could hover about the setup? | 02:18 |
| fenn | right | 02:18 |
| fenn | i was thinking some kind of optical breadboard at 90 degrees to the motion stage | 02:19 |
| nmz787 | hmm | 02:19 |
| nmz787 | the screws, bearings and motor mounts are the only things I think I am not clear on then | 02:19 |
| nmz787 | rather, how those items connect together | 02:20 |
| fenn | hm, i hadn't tested to make sure all the dimensions work the way i had imagined | 02:23 |
| fenn | but it should be close enough to take out any vertical slop with shims | 02:23 |
| nmz787 | hmm, any chance you'd be interested in adding the screws and bearings and motor mounts to the CAD ? | 02:24 |
| fenn | do you have the file support_block.scad in your working dir? | 02:25 |
| fenn | just wondering if i had pushed it earlier | 02:25 |
| nmz787 | its here http://diyhpl.us/laser_etcher/ | 02:28 |
| fenn | ok | 02:28 |
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| fenn | you should add links to any whitepapers you find relevant in the laser_etcher.mdwn | 02:31 |
| nmz787 | ahh, ok | 02:32 |
| fenn | i was considering using a "flexure bearing" to connect the lead nut and the moving part of each axis | 02:32 |
| fenn | but it turns out one can't simply buy his way into mordor | 02:33 |
| fenn | i mean, buy a flexure bearing | 02:33 |
| nmz787 | hmm | 02:35 |
| fenn | the point would be to prevent rocking deflection perpendicular to the axis of motion from a slightly eccentric leadscrew | 02:35 |
| fenn | this was a problem on the makerbot Z axis at one point and solved in a similar way | 02:36 |
| nmz787 | so is it just a bearing in a rubber block? | 02:36 |
| fenn | no | 02:36 |
| fenn | it only flexes in one direction, or two directions | 02:37 |
| fenn | one moment, the internet is not cooperating | 02:37 |
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| fenn | blarg. well this is the best pic of it i can find: http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2151 http://www.thingiverse.com/image:36713 | 02:43 |
| fenn | it's not a particularly brilliant design but i hope you get the idea | 02:43 |
| fenn | the vertical rigidity is greater than the horizontal rigidity | 02:43 |
| fenn | so the nut can move around in X and Y without affecting the Z position | 02:44 |
| fenn | oh, the makerbot wobble arrester is only really designed to flex in one direction | 02:46 |
| nmz787 | hmm, so you can't buy one of those? | 02:48 |
| fenn | not that i can find | 02:49 |
| fenn | it's a trivial waterjet job though | 02:49 |
| nmz787 | can we just use that design, printed locally or from shapeways? | 02:49 |
| nmz787 | or is that design inadequate? | 02:50 |
| fenn | it would need to be modified to fit our nut, and then might as well just redesign it from scratch | 02:50 |
| fenn | it may not be necessary at all though | 02:51 |
| nmz787 | seems like its just a spring though, which on the makerbot Z aren't there multiple screws? | 02:51 |
| fenn | i just wanted to convey the concept to you | 02:51 |
| nmz787 | where we'll only have 1 screw in any direction | 02:51 |
| fenn | these are true statements, but i don't see your point | 02:52 |
| nmz787 | so on the makerbot it seems like the actual position of the stage would just be something in between all 4 Z screws, thanks to the wobble arrester springs | 02:52 |
| fenn | oh. yeah, the makerbot is overconstrained | 02:52 |
| nmz787 | well I guess we'd need this item on the nut, and leave the Z constrained by the linear rails? | 02:53 |
| fenn | yes | 02:53 |
| nmz787 | without this, it would just put undue pressure on the plate/slide bearings | 02:53 |
| nmz787 | i think | 02:54 |
| fenn | this is to prevent an eccentric leadscrew from causing uneven friction with the nut, and to prevent side loading of the axis | 02:54 |
| nmz787 | right | 02:54 |
| nmz787 | ok | 02:54 |
| fenn | so i remember where i stopped working last time, i was trying to "save time" by using existing bearing and stepper motor models | 02:55 |
| fenn | but the existing libraries are more of a pain to use than they're worth | 02:55 |
| nmz787 | I remember you linked to something like 'worlds smallest Z stepper' or something a while ago | 02:58 |
| nmz787 | something from a CD drive I think | 02:58 |
| nmz787 | hacked | 02:59 |
| gnusha | laser_etcher.git: 7d48ccc | 03:00 |
| gnusha | laser_etcher.git: 8548e40 | 03:01 |
| fenn | was there supposed to be a commit message? | 03:06 |
| fenn | hm i guess not | 03:07 |
| gnusha | laser_etcher.git: c8f5071 | 03:07 |
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| nmz787 | fenn, anything that I could help with to further your completion of that model? | 03:16 |
| fenn | find me a nema23 stepper model in openscad | 03:18 |
| fenn | and a 16mm bearing model and 20mm ish thrust bearing | 03:19 |
| nmz787 | ok, will try to do when i wake up | 03:19 |
| * nmz787 heads toward bed | 03:19 | |
| fenn | perhaps i can just use simple cylinders as stand ins | 03:19 |
| fenn | gnight | 03:19 |
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| @kanzure | oh look. a wild fenn appeared! | 04:32 |
| foucist | quick, get the pokeball out! | 04:34 |
| @kanzure | i am a conscientious objector | 04:43 |
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| gnusha | laser_etcher.git: f928f89 added motor and bracket mockup, need accurate dimensions still | 04:54 |
| gnusha | laser_etcher.git: e56df72 clean up coupler dimensions, add hole to bracket for motor shaft | 04:54 |
| gnusha | laser_etcher.git: b196e42 added some leadscrew jazz | 04:54 |
| gnusha | laser_etcher.git: 461f9c6 finish leadscrew | 04:54 |
| fenn | let nmz787 know about http://fennetic.net/irc/leadscrew_assembly.png | 04:55 |
| @kanzure | how do i convince him to use commit messages? | 04:55 |
| fenn | with a large blunt object | 04:56 |
| fenn | such as a trout | 04:56 |
| @kanzure | ... or maybe a pokeball? | 04:56 |
| fenn | not large enough | 04:56 |
| fenn | is there a way to measure distances between points in an stl file? | 04:57 |
| @kanzure | stl is dimensionless but i think blender has some things that pretend to be rulers and measuring sticks? | 04:58 |
| fenn | like, click here, click here, what's the distance | 04:58 |
| fenn | oh right, blender | 04:58 |
| fenn | that nema 23 motor looks really huge in comparison | 04:59 |
| @kanzure | which scad nema motors did you look at? | 05:02 |
| fenn | some stuff in MCAD | 05:03 |
| @kanzure | there's also things like.. http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3165 | 05:04 |
| @kanzure | oh nevermind.. elmom considers his version more complete | 05:05 |
| fenn | cube(size=[bolt_hole_distance+bolt_hole_size+5, | 05:05 |
| fenn | really? the cube is just 5 mm bigger than the bolt holes? | 05:05 |
| fenn | well i guess that works | 05:06 |
| fenn | nema spec says no greater than 57mm | 05:06 |
| fenn | 1.856in+0.195in+5mm = 57.09 mm | 05:07 |
| fenn | blarg why can't everyone just use mm | 05:08 |
| fenn | they also seem to think the motor shaft is 6.36mm while the motors i have are actually 5mm | 05:10 |
| fenn | maybe i should measure that again | 05:10 |
| fenn | so, i'm probably going to go be a hippie and build earthbag domes in the desert | 05:12 |
| @kanzure | is this just a creative way of saying "i'm going to burning man again"? | 05:13 |
| fenn | not that i'm particularly fond of digging in the dirt, but it seems to be a proven design | 05:13 |
| fenn | i'm not going to burning man this year | 05:13 |
| fenn | s/earthbag/superadobe/ | 05:14 |
| fenn | ideally i'd have a robocrane squirt out a concrete shell just like a giant reprap | 05:15 |
| fenn | did dave take my electronics junk too? or is that still in austin? | 05:17 |
| @kanzure | les might still have a few boxes | 05:18 |
| @kanzure | i don't think i had any | 05:18 |
| fenn | you have some sensors from sparkfun and a lego house | 05:18 |
| fenn | and possibly some documents | 05:18 |
| @kanzure | sounds right to me | 05:18 |
| fenn | i should tell les about magnesium | 05:19 |
| fenn | i've never seen the man touch a green piece of food | 05:19 |
| @kanzure | i think his diet is taco bell sauce packets | 05:20 |
| fenn | and whataburger shakes | 05:20 |
| fenn | my new breakfast: 1c hot water, 1T miso, 1t dried seaweed, 1t kelp powder, 1c soba, 1/2 can salmon | 05:21 |
| fenn | it's practically instant if you have a zojirushi | 05:22 |
| fenn | (hot water dispenser) | 05:22 |
| fenn | substitute mackerel for salmon if you're poor | 05:24 |
| gnusha | laser_etcher.git: 67bbbbf i guess i have to use colors inside the module | 05:29 |
| fenn | ah good push works as expected now | 05:29 |
| @kanzure | looks the same? | 05:30 |
| fenn | [remote "origin"] | 05:32 |
| fenn | url = fenn@diyhpl.us:/srv/git/laser_etcher.git | 05:32 |
| fenn | works now with "git push" | 05:32 |
| fenn | before i had to do git push fenn@diyhpl.us:/srv/git/laser_etcher.git master | 05:32 |
| @kanzure | oh i assumed you had that | 05:32 |
| @kanzure | i see | 05:32 |
| fenn | i did have that | 05:32 |
| fenn | but something changed and it works now.. anyway | 05:32 |
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| @kanzure | "The research you've published in Nucleic Acids Research has contributed to the journal's highest-ever 8.026 Impact Factor from Thomson Reuters' Journal Citation Reports." | 07:52 |
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| @kanzure | hmm "Astrobotic today announced a NASA contract to develop technologies for exploring caves on the Moon" so uh, what caves are there? | 08:12 |
| chris_99 | can you get high resolution servo controlled robotic arms? | 08:19 |
| jrayhawk | [url "jrayhawk@diyhpl.us:/srv/git/"] pushInsteadOf = git://diyhpl.us/ | 08:29 |
| jrayhawk | pushInsteadOf = git://diyhpl.us/ | 08:29 |
| jrayhawk | ugh, i wonder why that doesn't copy and paste right | 08:29 |
| jrayhawk | [url "jrayhawk@diyhpl.us:/srv/git/"] | 08:30 |
| jrayhawk | pushInsteadOf = git://diyhpl.us/ | 08:30 |
| jrayhawk | there we go | 08:30 |
| jrayhawk | doing something like that might also make your lives slightly easier | 08:30 |
| @kanzure | i never try to push via git:// on diyhpl.us | 08:33 |
| jrayhawk | that would make sense considering it wouldn't work without some special effort | 08:34 |
| @kanzure | is "special effort" a euphemism for "jrayhawk does it" | 08:35 |
| jrayhawk | possibly. i don't remember if git-daemon needs to have its command line changed, but at least the repositories need a special configuration to allow that sort of export. | 08:36 |
| @kanzure | i see | 08:36 |
| @kanzure | (it's not particularly important to me) | 08:36 |
| jrayhawk | core.sharedrepository needs to be 0666, obviously | 08:36 |
| jrayhawk | daemon.uploadarch needs to be set to true, i guess | 08:37 |
| jrayhawk | and daemon.receivepack | 08:38 |
| jrayhawk | anyway, once you have that pushInsteadOf override in place, you can switch remote.origin.url over to git:// | 08:39 |
| jrayhawk | and pulling is magically less irritating | 08:39 |
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| @kanzure | "As far as I can tell, biohackers are all adventurous young people, incredibly athletic, and they’re all traveling the world." | 09:10 |
| @kanzure | stewart brand has a messed up conception of me :P | 09:10 |
| @kanzure | http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2012/08/ff_stewartbrand/all/ | 09:10 |
| @kanzure | but i do find it funny that kevin kelly and stew are still pimping well | 09:11 |
| @kanzure | i mean, Well | 09:11 |
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| archels | seems the media is all over everyone recently who is affiliated with the Long Now Foundation. | 10:18 |
| @kanzure | nah.. stew/kk/that gang has had positive media since forever | 10:25 |
| @kanzure | everyone likes the "friendly old guys talking about edge.org stuff" | 10:25 |
| @kanzure | "edge.org: TED but without herpes" | 10:25 |
| @kanzure | oh he did venter recently.. http://edge.org/conversation/what-is-life | 10:27 |
| @kanzure | (video) | 10:27 |
| @kanzure | oh nope. there's a transcript. | 10:27 |
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| archels | By agreement with the publisher, this book is accessible by the search feature, but cannot be browsed. | 11:49 |
| archels | ^ on pubmed. Interesting. | 11:49 |
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| @kanzure | archels: pubmed is negotiating with publishers? | 11:50 |
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| @kanzure | nmz787: how's meredith? | 12:57 |
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| @kanzure | http://options-vs-salary.com/ is a neat tool. | 13:41 |
| chris_99 | fancy | 13:44 |
| brownies | not a very good UX | 13:51 |
| brownies | but i guess it's nice of them to do the multiplication for you | 13:51 |
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| chris_99 | http://neurophone.wordpress.com/2012/08/05/make-a-diy-flanagan-neurophone-with-a-tl494/# | 14:18 |
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| @kanzure | hi loanshark | 14:22 |
| loanshark | hey again | 14:23 |
| @kanzure | so you want to get into bioengineering | 14:23 |
| @kanzure | try this? http://diyhpl.us/wiki/diybio/faq | 14:23 |
| loanshark | yes! | 14:23 |
| loanshark | thankyou | 14:23 |
| loanshark | i have one question | 14:23 |
| loanshark | its about obtaining DNA because i watched that video about making antidepressant yogurt | 14:24 |
| @kanzure | that guy didn't really make antidepressant yogurt | 14:24 |
| @kanzure | he was bullshitting you | 14:24 |
| loanshark | where do you order the genes? | 14:24 |
| loanshark | o.o | 14:24 |
| loanshark | awww | 14:24 |
| yashgaroth | there's no prozac gene | 14:24 |
| loanshark | i thought that was cool | 14:24 |
| @kanzure | as far as i know there's no prozac gene or prozac metabolic pathway | 14:25 |
| yashgaroth | plus it's got a bunch of fluorines on there which is pretty much impossible to do enzymatically | 14:25 |
| EnLilaSko | loanshark: The video was pretty much showing you can do shittons of stuff at home, but the prozac part was just a joke/troll | 14:26 |
| yashgaroth | I wish he | 14:26 |
| yashgaroth | 'd made that last part more obvious | 14:26 |
| loanshark | xD | 14:26 |
| @kanzure | yashgaroth: i should just make wild claims like that too | 14:26 |
| @kanzure | yashgaroth: "i have created yogurt that turns me into a hermit!" | 14:27 |
| @kanzure | wait maybe that's not sufficiently impressive | 14:27 |
| EnLilaSko | lol | 14:27 |
| loanshark | :3 | 14:27 |
| yashgaroth | oh I made a talking mouse | 14:27 |
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| loanshark | anyways, where do you get the DNA? | 14:27 |
| loanshark | o.o | 14:27 |
| EnLilaSko | "I make a yogurt curing AIDS" | 14:27 |
| EnLilaSko | All the newspaper would write about it | 14:27 |
| yashgaroth | what DNA | 14:27 |
| EnLilaSko | He gives you a site loanshark. | 14:27 |
| @kanzure | loanshark: you can get dna from yourself | 14:27 |
| EnLilaSko | The bacterias | 14:27 |
| yashgaroth | I poured this yogurt into a dish of cancer cells and they all died, money please | 14:28 |
| yashgaroth | why is no one funding this?!?! | 14:28 |
| loanshark | EnLilaSko: i still don't see how to actually get the DNA, there is no "buy now" xD | 14:28 |
| ParahSailin | i made yogurt that was an AGI, but i got too hungry and ate it | 14:28 |
| @kanzure | loanshark: there is "buy now", you are lying | 14:28 |
| EnLilaSko | Ah, then I have no clue | 14:28 |
| yashgaroth | origene.com | 14:28 |
| loanshark | :o | 14:28 |
| @kanzure | or idtdna.com is a popular choice | 14:28 |
| EnLilaSko | I usually buy cooler people genes so I maybe become cool | 14:29 |
| loanshark | so | 14:29 |
| loanshark | its $220 | 14:29 |
| loanshark | xD | 14:29 |
| loanshark | DIY bioengineering is expensive! | 14:29 |
| yashgaroth | what gene are you looking at | 14:30 |
| loanshark | idk | 14:30 |
| loanshark | :3 | 14:30 |
| * loanshark is a newb | 14:31 | |
| @kanzure | idk isn't a really interesting gene | 14:31 |
| @kanzure | why are you looking at idk | 14:31 |
| loanshark | o.o | 14:31 |
| yashgaroth | I saw a paper about idk3 recently, has a novel protease function | 14:31 |
| loanshark | ok | 14:32 |
| loanshark | I'm gonna read that think kanzure gave me | 14:32 |
| loanshark | because i know zilch about genes and stuff | 14:32 |
| @kanzure | also read everything here http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/bio/ | 14:32 |
| @kanzure | and http://diyhpl.us/wiki/diybio/faq | 14:32 |
| loanshark | ;_; | 14:32 |
| loanshark | can i just buy a book | 14:32 |
| loanshark | with everything in it | 14:33 |
| yashgaroth | I recommend molecular biology of the cell, or molecular biology of the gene | 14:33 |
| @kanzure | no | 14:33 |
| loanshark | like my big encyclopedia of sailing | 14:33 |
| yashgaroth | but they don't really cover actual genetic engineering | 14:33 |
| loanshark | what have you guys done with genes? | 14:33 |
| @kanzure | also, that question is answered in the faq | 14:33 |
| @kanzure | so is that one | 14:33 |
| yashgaroth | bro I do stuff with genes erry day | 14:34 |
| loanshark | so many windows open now my head hurts x_x | 14:34 |
| EnLilaSko | I like, live with mine | 14:34 |
| yashgaroth | though you should know, people have spent more hours writing news articles about biohacking than actually biohacking | 14:35 |
| @kanzure | loanshark: you can never have enough tabs http://heybryan.org/shots/2008-01-15-tabs.png | 14:35 |
| @kanzure | https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/toomanytabs-saves-your-memory/ | 14:35 |
| loanshark | xD | 14:35 |
| EnLilaSko | damn, lol | 14:36 |
| loanshark | :3 learning is fun | 14:40 |
| loanshark | are there any easy, cheap projects i can do to get started? | 14:40 |
| @kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/wiki/diybio/faq/kits | 14:41 |
| yashgaroth | define easy/cheap | 14:41 |
| loanshark | umm | 14:41 |
| loanshark | under $100 | 14:41 |
| @kanzure | you can do the shotglass dna extraction project | 14:41 |
| @kanzure | but it's more of a parlor trick and completely useless | 14:41 |
| @kanzure | unless you happen to need to purify human dna for some project | 14:42 |
| loanshark | what do you do with the DNA that has been extracted? | 14:42 |
| @kanzure | you eat it | 14:42 |
| @kanzure | or just stare at it | 14:42 |
| TheEmpath | om nom life books | 14:42 |
| yashgaroth | you get drunk in the process, that's a bonus | 14:42 |
| loanshark | you can't do anything at all with it? | 14:42 |
| @kanzure | loanshark: biology is not cheap.. you shouldn't put price limits like that on it | 14:43 |
| @kanzure | there's a $25 lightbulb pcr machine design that russell put up | 14:43 |
| @kanzure | and staceyk put up a $85 arduino-based pcr machine too, but you need to buy >$100 of pcr master mix (which you can sometimes get a free sample for..) | 14:43 |
| yashgaroth | but if you want to see the result of the pcr, you'll need a gelbox and supplies for that, oh and a centrifuge | 14:44 |
| loanshark | whats a pcr? | 14:44 |
| yashgaroth | http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK21054/ | 14:45 |
| gnusha | diyhpluswiki.git: 22b779a add a link to the kits page from diybio/faq.mdwn | 14:46 |
| loanshark | http://www.amazon.com/Biopunk-Scientists-Hack-Software-Life/dp/1617230022/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1345585572&sr=8-1&keywords=biohack | 14:46 |
| loanshark | maybe? | 14:46 |
| yashgaroth | doesn't actually have any protocols, but sure | 14:46 |
| yashgaroth | please see [14:35:18] .:yashgaroth:. though you should know, people have spent more hours writing news articles about biohacking than actually biohacking | 14:46 |
| loanshark | akk | 14:46 |
| loanshark | nvm | 14:46 |
| gnusha | diyhpluswiki.git: 0a48059 add molecular biology of the cell on nih to book list | 14:47 |
| @kanzure | loanshark: that book is just about me and my friends | 14:47 |
| @kanzure | i mean, it doesn't actually tell you how to do things | 14:47 |
| yashgaroth | genetic engineering isn't its own field, it's a very specialized application of biology | 14:47 |
| loanshark | >.< | 14:47 |
| @kanzure | loanshark: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK21054/ is a good intro book, but it wont teach you techniques | 14:48 |
| @kanzure | oh wait, it seems to have some chapters on "methods" in part 3 | 14:48 |
| @kanzure | yashgaroth: would you believe me if i told you i haven't actually read that book? | 14:48 |
| yashgaroth | no, but it's questionable whether knowing how to run PCR is worthwhile if you don't know what PCR is | 14:48 |
| yashgaroth | sure kanzure | 14:48 |
| yashgaroth | but you know what pcr is so it's a moot point | 14:49 |
| loanshark | oki | 14:49 |
| loanshark | getting the 5th edition | 14:49 |
| @kanzure | huh? why the 5th? | 14:49 |
| @kanzure | it's right here: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK21054/ | 14:49 |
| @kanzure | boom you have it | 14:49 |
| yashgaroth | nothing you'll need to know outside of a bio PhD program has been added between editions, but feel free | 14:50 |
| @kanzure | yashgaroth: maybe there's a cut-away phd hidden between pages 100 and page 101 | 14:50 |
| loanshark | i was just downloading it o.o | 14:50 |
| yashgaroth | include 8 years of your life in the mail-away envelope | 14:50 |
| loanshark | its $159 dollars! | 14:51 |
| @kanzure | yes, because textbooks are evil | 14:51 |
| @kanzure | why are you paying for it? | 14:51 |
| yashgaroth | oh we're the last people who'll tell you to pay for it | 14:51 |
| loanshark | im not | 14:51 |
| loanshark | but still | 14:51 |
| loanshark | thats a lot | 14:51 |
| @kanzure | yashgaroth: oh that book isn't readable on the nih site | 14:52 |
| yashgaroth | lolwut | 14:52 |
| @kanzure | as far as i can tell? | 14:52 |
| yashgaroth | oh haha well fuck 'em then | 14:52 |
| yashgaroth | yeah you're right, just noticed the header | 14:52 |
| yashgaroth | "By agreement with the publisher, this book is accessible by thepiratebay, but cannot be browsed." | 14:53 |
| loanshark | :3 | 14:53 |
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| loanshark | i need to charge my kindle | 14:53 |
| loanshark | any other books? | 14:53 |
| yashgaroth | lehninger's biochemistry | 14:54 |
| yashgaroth | molecular biology of the gene | 14:54 |
| yashgaroth | human molecular genetics | 14:54 |
| @kanzure | i liked campbell biology but that was probably because the alternative (at the time) was holt biology | 14:54 |
| yashgaroth | I forget which one we had in school, fuck food chains | 14:55 |
| @kanzure | "do you know what a CONSUMER is?" | 14:55 |
| loanshark | do i need human molecular genetics? | 14:56 |
| @kanzure | depends on what you are doing or why | 14:56 |
| loanshark | i just like biology | 14:56 |
| loanshark | i have no idea what you can/can't do with bioengineering | 14:56 |
| loanshark | i thought you could make prozac yogurt :3 | 14:57 |
| @kanzure | why did you think that | 14:57 |
| yashgaroth | that fucking douchebag and his shitass video | 14:57 |
| loanshark | because | 14:57 |
| loanshark | i searched 'antidepressant' in the registary | 14:58 |
| loanshark | and it came up with some stuff | 14:58 |
| @kanzure | what is registary? | 14:58 |
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| loanshark | registry** -.- | 14:58 |
| @kanzure | which registry | 14:58 |
| loanshark | partsregistry.org | 14:58 |
| @kanzure | ok why are you using that site | 14:59 |
| yashgaroth | I see a gene activated by a component of st john's wort | 14:59 |
| @kanzure | http://partsregistry.org/Part:BBa_K364325:Experience | 15:00 |
| @kanzure | i see a unicode/utf8/charset error | 15:00 |
| yashgaroth | oh god I was browsing igem team wikis last night, the UGeorgia team had extremely loud unstoppable gangsta rap on their page | 15:01 |
| @kanzure | igem: the official myspace of synthetic biology | 15:02 |
| @kanzure | bleh | 15:03 |
| yashgaroth | anyway loanshark there's very little you can do at the moment outside of a legitimate lab, especially if you have no bio knowledge or experience | 15:03 |
| @kanzure | you will have to acquire equipment | 15:04 |
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| @kanzure | and reagents (consumables) | 15:04 |
| loanshark | but what can you do if you have a small home lab with a PCR and centrifuge and other DIY equipment | 15:05 |
| yashgaroth | you can spend your time finding a company that will actually sell reagents to an individual | 15:05 |
| yashgaroth | you could conceivably sequence parts of your own genome | 15:06 |
| yashgaroth | with an incubator you can make some glowing bacteria | 15:06 |
| @kanzure | most of the time what happens is that a newbie will pick a huge project | 15:06 |
| @kanzure | and then spend a few months acquiring equipment and planning it out | 15:06 |
| @kanzure | and then realize how impractical it is, and then scale back and pick something more doable | 15:06 |
| @kanzure | with the equipment already acquired | 15:07 |
| loanshark | can anyone suggest an feasible project? | 15:07 |
| yashgaroth | as in a project where you follow someone else's protocols, or original research? | 15:08 |
| loanshark | follow someone else's protocols | 15:09 |
| loanshark | :3 | 15:09 |
| @kanzure | ok well pick something: http://protocol-online.org/ | 15:09 |
| yashgaroth | there's one where you make bacteria smell like bananas, dunno if they made the gene publicly available | 15:10 |
| yashgaroth | sadly it's not yet like computer hacking where the limit is your imagination and expertise | 15:11 |
| loanshark | :3 | 15:12 |
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| eudoxia | kanzure, which open source cad program do you see as having the most potential as a component of SKDB | 15:14 |
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| eudoxia | or just the best FOSS CAD program right now | 15:14 |
| @kanzure | eudoxia: brlcad is the best-written cad program | 15:14 |
| @kanzure | unfortunately it doesn't support nurbs quite yet | 15:14 |
| @kanzure | i mean, it does in a few places, but not in the ways that matter | 15:15 |
| @kanzure | but it's definitely superior to openscad | 15:15 |
| eudoxia | i was just going to ask you about that one | 15:15 |
| @kanzure | i don't recommend openscad at all | 15:16 |
| @kanzure | but http://diyhpl.us/laser_etcher/laser_etcher models are written with it | 15:16 |
| eudoxia | why not? | 15:16 |
| @kanzure | there's no particular reason for its custom language.. that's just silly | 15:16 |
| @kanzure | variables are a hack or unsupported | 15:17 |
| @kanzure | it's just a tessellation engine really, which you get for free with brlcad or blender, which makes it really not that much of a cad tool.. | 15:17 |
| eudoxia | what is the standard language for programmatic cad then? | 15:17 |
| @kanzure | autolisp | 15:17 |
| @kanzure | implicitcad is sorta neat if you're into haskell | 15:18 |
| loanshark | so | 15:18 |
| loanshark | :/ | 15:18 |
| loanshark | could i for example | 15:18 |
| @kanzure | eudoxia: but i'm a big sucker for python cad | 15:18 |
| @kanzure | eudoxia: so stuff like pythonocc (even though opencascade/oce is shit) | 15:18 |
| @kanzure | i mean, opencascade is at least a real cad kernel | 15:19 |
| @kanzure | the problem is that its quality is very low | 15:19 |
| eudoxia | can BRLCAD use autolisp? | 15:19 |
| loanshark | take the gene that makes a type of algae glow and put it in another organism? | 15:19 |
| loanshark | 15:19 | |
| @kanzure | just none of the other cad offerings really meet that definition ("real cad kernel") except some of the commercial stuff (acis, parasolid, whatever) | 15:19 |
| @kanzure | eudoxia: brlcad has a number of separate libraries that you can wrap into whatever language you want | 15:19 |
| @kanzure | loanshark: no we don't do glowing | 15:20 |
| eudoxia | that's good | 15:20 |
| loanshark | soo | 15:20 |
| loanshark | :/ | 15:20 |
| loanshark | what can you do? | 15:20 |
| @kanzure | loanshark: maybe you should learn a little first, and then see if anything gets you interested | 15:20 |
| @kanzure | you can do anything that's possible | 15:20 |
| loanshark | I'm just trying to find some applications | 15:21 |
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| loanshark | im really disappointed about the antidepressant thing | 15:24 |
| eudoxia | kanzure: apparently some people have written interfaces to BRLCAD for python, why not use those if openCASCADE is shit? | 15:24 |
| loanshark | i thought you made the bacteria produce some chemical that does the same thing that prozac does | 15:24 |
| loanshark | the only example i can think of is how chemically synthetic THC does the same thing as regular THC | 15:25 |
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| @kanzure | eudoxia: opencascade can do nurbs cad, brlcad can't (because opennurbs is made by rhino, and rhino keeps the good parts proprietary) | 15:25 |
| @kanzure | eudoxia: i haven't seen the brlcad python wrapper.. can you link me? | 15:25 |
| eudoxia | http://forums.reprap.org/read.php?12,14558,15121 | 15:26 |
| @kanzure | lolz released on a forum.. yeah uh | 15:26 |
| @kanzure | "That said, is there a reason you aren't using something like ctypes and libwdb for this? If you're just doing compile-style generation of geometry, that's exactly what libwdb is for, and that'd keep you from needing to do anything with TCL or mged at all, and make it easier to add libged's functionality when it gets that far. Looking at ctypes, that should be close to trivial, and certainly easier than mucking about generating input for mged" | 15:26 |
| @kanzure | hmm so he's not using ctypes or cython? | 15:27 |
| @kanzure | yeah so i don't think this is a good idea | 15:27 |
| @kanzure | generating input for mged is just as bad as pyopenscadpy | 15:27 |
| @kanzure | (i forget which one; pyopenscad or openscadpy generates input for openscad; the other one is openscad compiled with Python.h) | 15:28 |
| @kanzure | eudoxia: i'd even take a swig-generated interface in python over that | 15:29 |
| @kanzure | (that's what pythonocc was for opencascade, just some swig wrapper around opencascade) | 15:30 |
| eudoxia | so BRLCAD is good but can't do nurbs and opencascade is shit but can do nurbs | 15:31 |
| eudoxia | how complicated | 15:31 |
| @kanzure | it gets much more complicated :) | 15:32 |
| @kanzure | like go look at the opencascade source code | 15:32 |
| @kanzure | http://github.com/kanzure/oce | 15:32 |
| @kanzure | and compare it to brlcad (which is heaven in comparison) | 15:32 |
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| loanshark | kanzure: is there nothing cool you can do with bioengineering in a home lab? | 15:35 |
| @kanzure | there's tons of cool stuff. you can do genetic engineering. | 15:36 |
| loanshark | what can you do with genetic engineering in a home lab? | 15:37 |
| @kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/wiki/diybio/faq/projects | 15:42 |
| loanshark | cool thanks :) | 15:44 |
| loanshark | i didn't see that | 15:44 |
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| loanshark | so | 15:52 |
| loanshark | you can just grow cultures or build lab equipment? | 15:52 |
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| loanshark | kanzure: what can you do with genetic engineering in a home lab if you can't make SSRI yogurt or organisms that glow | 15:55 |
| ParahSailin | not much actually | 16:00 |
| loanshark | http://partsregistry.org/Part:BBa_K364325:Experience | 16:00 |
| loanshark | that won't make the bacteria make hyperforin? | 16:01 |
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| loanshark | hypericin** | 16:01 |
| @kanzure | you can make organisms glow, but i wouldn't be very supportive | 16:04 |
| loanshark | why not? | 16:05 |
| @kanzure | that page says that PXR is activated by hyperforin..... why do you think this gene product would make hyperforin?? | 16:05 |
| loanshark | i meant hyericin | 16:05 |
| loanshark | which is the SSRI | 16:05 |
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| OldCoder | kanzure, loanshark Hi | 16:08 |
| OldCoder | kanzure, I lost this channel | 16:08 |
| OldCoder | Found it again | 16:08 |
| loanshark | helllo | 16:09 |
| OldCoder | loanshark, you were looking for a DIY project | 16:09 |
| loanshark | http://www.mnn.com/green-tech/research-innovations/photos/12-bizarre-examples-of-genetic-engineering/glow-in-the-dark-c | 16:10 |
| loanshark | this stuff is cool | 16:10 |
| OldCoder | Reviewing | 16:10 |
| loanshark | glow cats! | 16:10 |
| OldCoder | I've read about this | 16:11 |
| OldCoder | But I wouldn't try this at home! :-) | 16:11 |
| loanshark | why not? | 16:11 |
| OldCoder | Gengineering kitties? | 16:12 |
| * OldCoder reads | 16:12 | |
| OldCoder | You don't have the equipment or training needed to do something at this level. Glowing microorganisms are different. | 16:12 |
| OldCoder | You could make a bottle of pond water glow. | 16:12 |
| loanshark | could totally set up and operate on kitties | 16:13 |
| loanshark | ;3 | 16:13 |
| * OldCoder shrugs | 16:13 | |
| loanshark | what i mean is that that is cool, | 16:13 |
| OldCoder | It is | 16:14 |
| OldCoder | Glowing tomatoes are useful | 16:14 |
| loanshark | like interesting things that spark my interest in bioengineering and motivate me to learn about it | 16:14 |
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| OldCoder | Good | 16:14 |
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| @kanzure | loanshark: no, glowing is NOT cool | 16:14 |
| @kanzure | fuck | 16:14 |
| @kanzure | fuuuck | 16:14 |
| OldCoder | ? | 16:14 |
| OldCoder | Not glowing kitties | 16:14 |
| OldCoder | Maybe glowing pond water | 16:14 |
| OldCoder | kanzure, hi | 16:14 |
| @kanzure | it's not even really that interesting: it's just glowing under fluorescent light | 16:14 |
| loanshark | getting dan from a strawberry with a shot glass for no reason what so ever does not sound very interesting | 16:14 |
| @kanzure | it's not | 16:15 |
| OldCoder | Conceptually | 16:15 |
| chris_99 | kanzure, what stuff have you done that's cool relating to this that's cool? | 16:15 |
| loanshark | :3 cool stuff | 16:15 |
| chris_99 | er, that was poorly worded | 16:15 |
| @kanzure | chris_99: i did some published research on transcriptional logic gates under pcr | 16:15 |
| loanshark | pollution-fighting plants! | 16:15 |
| loanshark | thats cool | 16:15 |
| OldCoder | chris_99, I liked the wording | 16:15 |
| chris_99 | link kanzure? | 16:15 |
| @kanzure | chris_99: i don't have a link handy | 16:16 |
| @kanzure | i don't know if it counts as cool though | 16:16 |
| chris_99 | is it on scholar? | 16:16 |
| @kanzure | probably | 16:16 |
| @kanzure | but i'm not cited | 16:16 |
| @kanzure | because i was the disposable undergrad | 16:16 |
| loanshark | logic gates are uncool | 16:17 |
| OldCoder | That's always fun | 16:17 |
| loanshark | :3 | 16:17 |
| chris_99 | remember the title or other authors? | 16:17 |
| @kanzure | chris_99: yes | 16:17 |
| @kanzure | but i don't think it matters? | 16:17 |
| OldCoder | kanzure, do you have a Twitter presence? | 16:17 |
| @kanzure | OldCoder: sadly yes http://heybryan.org/ lists it | 16:18 |
| OldCoder | Sadly :-) | 16:18 |
| loanshark | how about a cabbage that makes scorpion venom as a sort of self-pesticide, killing caterpillars that bite it, but not so much that it is harmful to humans | 16:18 |
| loanshark | :3 | 16:18 |
| loanshark | that is very cool | 16:18 |
| @kanzure | loanshark: how about you just pick a project you like, instead of hoping someone gives you a ready-made package | 16:18 |
| loanshark | i was just asking for ideas and no one had any | 16:18 |
| @kanzure | loanshark: ok so first you should go figure out how to make venom | 16:18 |
| OldCoder | kanzure, PM if all right | 16:19 |
| @kanzure | and then you will see that the expression system probably doesn't work in cabbage | 16:19 |
| loanshark | and someone said there was not much you can do with bio-engineering | 16:19 |
| @kanzure | loanshark: you can do all sorts of things, but that doesn't mean they are easy | 16:19 |
| OldCoder | kanzure, I am already following you. You should tweet more. | 16:19 |
| @kanzure | no i shouldn't | 16:19 |
| loanshark | http://www.nature.com/cr/journal/v12/n2/full/7290120a.html | 16:19 |
| @kanzure | don't encourage me | 16:19 |
| OldCoder | kanzure, do it | 16:19 |
| loanshark | venomous cabbage already exists | 16:19 |
| OldCoder | dooooooooooo eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet | 16:19 |
| OldCoder | :-) | 16:19 |
| @kanzure | loanshark: that was in ecoli | 16:20 |
| @kanzure | loanshark: if you can replicate that paper's work, then you could start to consider doing it in cabbage | 16:20 |
| OldCoder | kanzure, I'll be here a bit. PM when you can. | 16:20 |
| @kanzure | OldCoder: you may pm me | 16:20 |
| OldCoder | I did | 16:20 |
| OldCoder | Tried again | 16:20 |
| @kanzure | ok. | 16:20 |
| loanshark | :3 | 16:21 |
| loanshark | how about just making things glow | 16:21 |
| loanshark | like worms | 16:21 |
| @kanzure | loanshark: that looks like a chemical synthesis, not a recombinant protein | 16:21 |
| chris_99 | anyone think of something funky that requires a vacuum? | 16:22 |
| loanshark | :3 | 16:22 |
| @kanzure | oh nevermind "AaIT is an excitatory long-chain toxin specific to insects and is composed of 70 amino acids with four disulfide bridges" | 16:22 |
| @kanzure | so it looks like this toxin is just an amino acid chain | 16:22 |
| brownies | uh... what? something funky that requires a vacuum? | 16:23 |
| chris_99 | yeah heh, i'm getting a vacuum pump for something else, but was wondering if theres anything else i could use it for | 16:23 |
| @kanzure | um well | 16:24 |
| @kanzure | i'm sure my mom has a | 16:24 |
| @kanzure | i can't do this anymore | 16:24 |
| brownies | superconducting? cold temperatures in general? fabricating microchips? | 16:24 |
| @kanzure | oh | 16:24 |
| brownies | basically... everything? | 16:24 |
| @kanzure | is this a 10^-9 torr vacuum? or more? | 16:24 |
| brownies | just... Science™ | 16:24 |
| brownies | mm, good question | 16:24 |
| loanshark | could i inject genes into worm eggs? | 16:25 |
| chris_99 | 0 - 30" Hg apparently | 16:25 |
| @kanzure | yep.. but you would have to follow a protocol if you want genetic manipulation of worm eggs to work | 16:25 |
| loanshark | what is a protocol? | 16:25 |
| @kanzure | black magic | 16:26 |
| loanshark | published results of someones research? | 16:26 |
| @kanzure | no | 16:26 |
| @kanzure | http://protocol-online.org/ | 16:26 |
| @kanzure | they are list of steps to do things | 16:26 |
| @kanzure | but usually they are highly specific | 16:26 |
| loanshark | so like a tutorial | 16:26 |
| @kanzure | like incubate at certain temperatures, use certain amounts of whatever reagents and liquids, etc. | 16:26 |
| @kanzure | no | 16:26 |
| loanshark | recepies? | 16:26 |
| @kanzure | really bad recipes | 16:26 |
| loanshark | ok | 16:26 |
| loanshark | will there really be a form egg gene injection protocol? | 16:27 |
| @kanzure | there might be, if someone has done it before | 16:28 |
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| @kanzure | but if not, you will have to spend months/years figuring it out based on related lab techniques and testing | 16:28 |
| loanshark | :3 | 16:28 |
| loanshark | ok | 16:28 |
| loanshark | because i might just be killing them | 16:29 |
| loanshark | XD | 16:29 |
| @kanzure | you will definitely screw up and kill things | 16:29 |
| loanshark | hardcore | 16:29 |
| loanshark | http://tropicalis.berkeley.edu/home/manipulate_embryos/microinjection/inject.html | 16:29 |
| loanshark | the best relating protocol i found - microinjection | 16:30 |
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| loanshark | theoretically, if you get the single fertilized cell | 16:32 |
| @kanzure | conditions for injecting plasmids into embryos are fairly non-trivial, it varies dramatically by species | 16:32 |
| loanshark | you can do that electrothingy to open the barriers and then centrifuge cells with glow-in-the dark gene | 16:32 |
| @kanzure | you are a master of technobabble | 16:33 |
| loanshark | ^^ thanks | 16:33 |
| OldCoder | write stories | 16:33 |
| loanshark | stories? | 16:33 |
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| loanshark | Kanzure: if you had the gene that makes luciferase then put that in the worms they would be like fireflies? | 16:38 |
| @kanzure | read the diybio archives about that.. short answer is no | 16:38 |
| @kanzure | https://google.com/search?q=diybio+luciferase | 16:38 |
| loanshark | so apparently fluorescence is way easier than bioluminescence | 16:42 |
| loanshark | awww | 16:44 |
| loanshark | synthesizing genes is expensive :( | 16:44 |
| @kanzure | yes dna costs a bit much | 16:44 |
| @kanzure | yashgaroth: maybe diybio is just a clever marketing stunt for carolina's gfp kits | 16:45 |
| loanshark | but you can just go out and capture some fireflies | 16:45 |
| yashgaroth | it's sad how true that could be kanz | 16:46 |
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| loanshark | how would you collect fluorescent protein genes from nature? | 16:54 |
| @kanzure | you would buy some dead squid and pcr it out of their genome with some primers | 16:55 |
| loanshark | ok | 16:56 |
| loanshark | :3 | 16:56 |
| loanshark | see now this is cool :3 | 16:56 |
| yashgaroth | well they probably have introns, in which case I'd recommend reverse-transcriptase pcr | 16:56 |
| @kanzure | no it's not.. it's just fluorescence dude | 16:56 |
| loanshark | but | 16:57 |
| loanshark | your engineering with biology.. building cool things | 16:57 |
| loanshark | changing them the way you want them | 16:57 |
| loanshark | :3 | 16:57 |
| loanshark | like lego, but with living things | 16:58 |
| loanshark | now thats cool | 16:58 |
| @kanzure | it's not like lego at all | 16:59 |
| loanshark | its cooler than lego | 16:59 |
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| OldCoder | Living Lego | 17:12 |
| OldCoder | Hmm | 17:12 |
| @kanzure | Juul: do you have a standard disclaimer for "biobricks don't usually work" | 17:12 |
| loanshark | are primers expensive? | 17:13 |
| @kanzure | they are synthetic dna | 17:14 |
| loanshark | :/ | 17:14 |
| @kanzure | so they cost the same, they are just usually short - about 20 bp to 40 bp or longer ish | 17:14 |
| loanshark | arg! | 17:14 |
| yashgaroth | a few dollars each | 17:14 |
| loanshark | oh? | 17:14 |
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| yashgaroth | well more than a few, but not "same" like several hundred dollars | 17:16 |
| @kanzure | true | 17:16 |
| loanshark | 4.90 per primer | 17:17 |
| loanshark | :D | 17:17 |
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| loanshark | http://www.operon.com/products/pcr-primers/pcr-primer-overview.aspx?id=pcr | 17:29 |
| loanshark | Kanzure $4.90 a primer sounds very affordable | 17:29 |
| @kanzure | and what are you planning to do with these primers | 17:30 |
| loanshark | get the luminescent gene | 17:30 |
| @kanzure | why not just use the kit from carolina | 17:31 |
| @kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/wiki/diybio/faq/kit | 17:31 |
| @kanzure | oops | 17:31 |
| @kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/wiki/diybio/faq/kits | 17:31 |
| loanshark | how much is it? | 17:32 |
| @kanzure | cheaper than you building your own plasmid system and consuming all those reagents in test | 17:32 |
| loanshark | :/ | 17:34 |
| loanshark | really? | 17:34 |
| @kanzure | well, do the math and prove me wrong | 17:34 |
| loanshark | idk what it takes to build a plasmid system | 17:35 |
| @kanzure | go find out | 17:35 |
| loanshark | but wikipedia tells me it is a DNA molecule separate from the chromosomal DNA | 17:35 |
| @kanzure | correct | 17:39 |
| @kanzure | this is one of the gene expression methods | 17:39 |
| loanshark | aaah | 17:43 |
| loanshark | this stuff is intense | 17:43 |
| loanshark | :3 | 17:43 |
| loanshark | so | 17:43 |
| @kanzure | loanshark: feel free to edit the diybio faq with your findings | 17:44 |
| loanshark | so you get the DNA | 17:49 |
| loanshark | then use the DNA to make DNA plasmids? | 17:49 |
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| gnusha | diyhpluswiki.git: ccaa470 increase instructions for editing the faq | 17:50 |
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| tashoutang | excuse me, last time someone give me a clue to search some chemical compound those could be useful after extraction, and can this Mister/Miss give me that clue again? | 17:58 |
| gnusha | diyhpluswiki.git: | 18:01 |
| @kanzure | jrayhawk: remote: 2012/08/21 18:01:03 socat[29849] E write(3, 0x9da1388, 56): Broken pipe | 18:01 |
| jrayhawk | curious | 18:03 |
| gnusha | honk honk | 18:04 |
| jrayhawk | well, beats me | 18:04 |
| gnusha | diyhpluswiki.git: 72e834f add a page about the irc channel | 18:06 |
| @kanzure | hmm the formatting is wacky: http://diyhpl.us/wiki/hplusroadmap#irc | 18:07 |
| @kanzure | i tried \#\#[[hplusroadmap]] but instead i get that^ | 18:08 |
| @kanzure | on the other page \#\#[[hplusroadmap]] works.. maybe this is a bug about linking to your own page | 18:11 |
| gnusha | diyhpluswiki.git: 97a74d9 linkify the irc clients list | 18:14 |
| gnusha | diyhpluswiki.git: c2c7913 fix ##hplusroadmap formatting | 18:16 |
| @kanzure | huh, no, the formatting is still very wrong | 18:16 |
| brownies | the logs are public? oh man | 18:18 |
| OldCoder | brownies, I didn't know you were here | 18:19 |
| brownies | OldCoder: i didn't know you were here! | 18:19 |
| tashoutang | @K: did you see my question? | 18:19 |
| OldCoder | I lost the channel | 18:19 |
| tashoutang | excuse me to bother you @K | 18:20 |
| brownies | < kanzure> but then why did I start off as a moron? | 18:20 |
| brownies | doesn't take long to find things and take them out context, when you have 4 years of logs | 18:20 |
| @kanzure | tashoutang: yes i saw your question. there are many chemical compounds. i'm not sure if i told you any. | 18:23 |
| gnusha | diyhpluswiki.git: c9058b7 better instructions for editing the wiki | 18:24 |
| tashoutang | oooo, and in private I ask you that are u talking about the website setting with html language | 18:24 |
| @kanzure | ah i see. | 18:25 |
| @kanzure | well, no, this is not quite html | 18:25 |
| @kanzure | it's markdown being converted to html | 18:25 |
| tashoutang | haha I am still not very familiar with mirc | 18:25 |
| tashoutang | OK | 18:25 |
| @kanzure | no it worked, but i am in too many irc channels and do not see private notifications easily :) | 18:26 |
| tashoutang | I see | 18:26 |
| tashoutang | thanks!:) | 18:26 |
| brownies | kanzure: what client do you use? | 18:26 |
| gnusha | diyhpluswiki.git: 775970d describe the wiki in the intro page | 18:27 |
| @kanzure | brownies: irssi | 18:27 |
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| gnusha | diyhpluswiki.git: 8caf394 list out some interesting pages | 18:31 |
| tashoutang | on DIYbio someone said they want to start a DIYbio project whitch include each individual around the world, and welcome every one to offer its idea, and the one who propose this poster said he prefer to plane a project to build a creature and put it on the mars. | 18:37 |
| gnusha | diyhpluswiki.git: 8d9a3d1 move text files to wiki files in transcripts/startup-science-2012 | 18:37 |
| @kanzure | tashoutang: yes that was funny | 18:37 |
| tashoutang | I know that scientist had built artificial micoplasma...\ | 18:38 |
| @kanzure | brownies: these might be slightly readable now.. http://diyhpl.us/wiki/transcripts/startup-science-2012/ | 18:38 |
| @kanzure | oh crap, nope | 18:38 |
| tashoutang | why they just start to simulate the surviving ability from that creature first? | 18:38 |
| gnusha | diyhpluswiki.git: b089f36 convert transcripts/startup-science-2012 to markdown | 18:39 |
| @kanzure | brownies: ok try now. | 18:39 |
| * brownies looks | 18:41 | |
| brownies | kanzure: much better. the whole site is still too wide. | 18:41 |
| brownies | jam the whole thing into a 940px div. that would be a huge step forward. | 18:41 |
| @kanzure | can you pop open chrome inspector and suggest a -- | 18:41 |
| @kanzure | ok 940px div.. will try that | 18:42 |
| @kanzure | wait do i care | 18:42 |
| gnusha | diyhpluswiki.git: 1f31d45 restrict the body element to 940px | 18:44 |
| @kanzure | brownies: how about now? | 18:44 |
| brownies | kanzure: much better. | 18:44 |
| @kanzure | blah the title stuff isn't in a block div http://diyhpl.us/wiki/transcripts/startup-science-2012/carlo-quinonez/ | 18:44 |
| brownies | kanzure: just throw that search bar next to the links | 18:45 |
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| @kanzure | nmz787: how was maradydd? | 20:47 |
| nmz787 | she didn't end up coming to hackmanhattan, said she was still jetlagged | 20:49 |
| nmz787 | and not feeling well | 20:49 |
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| @kanzure | this seems sorta absurd https://community.rapid7.com/community/metasploit/blog/2012/08/21/metasploit-portable-ios | 21:06 |
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| nmz787 | this looks like a spicy meatball: "Gene Synthesis: Methods and Protocols (Methods in Molecular Biology, 852) 2012 Jean Peccoud" http://libgen.info/view.php?id=823673 | 22:33 |
| yashgaroth | "Leading a Successful iGEM Team" | 22:36 |
| @kanzure | if that's not written by slovenian nationalists i would be suspicious of it | 22:36 |
| @kanzure | pastebin for math: http://mathb.in/ | 22:39 |
| @kanzure | maybe there should be a genetic pastebin called genebin | 22:39 |
| @kanzure | it could even have shitty annotations and shitty plasmid visualization | 22:39 |
| brownies | i thought there was already a latexbin? | 22:40 |
| brownies | although admittedly this looks way, way better | 22:40 |
| @kanzure | what's latexbin like? | 22:40 |
| brownies | feels like 1996 | 22:41 |
| @kanzure | "pastebinit" used to be a great little tool until pastebin.com changed their api | 22:41 |
| @kanzure | and now pastebinit requires -b http://paste.ubuntu.com/ or some other pastebin tacked on.. kinda ruins the point if you have to make a custom alias | 22:41 |
| brownies | kanzure: couldn't you just alias it once in your bash profile and leave it at that... | 22:42 |
| brownies | oh i see. that's too much work for you. alright. | 22:42 |
| @kanzure | well, that's what i've done, yes | 22:43 |
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| @kanzure | http://blog.mylookout.com/_media/Geinimi_Trojan_Teardown.pdf | 23:09 |
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| --- Log closed Wed Aug 22 00:00:03 2012 | ||
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