| --- Log opened Sat Sep 22 00:00:14 2012 | ||
| --- Day changed Sat Sep 22 2012 | ||
| nmz787 | so can you stop cell cycle and just have a constant flow reactor? | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| nmz787 | like, the cells are dividing, but there's still nutrient and they stay to the bottom of the tank or something? | 00:00 |
| yashgaroth | you could but people are lazy | 00:01 |
| nmz787 | what do you mean? | 00:01 |
| nmz787 | you just grow it up, centrifuge, repeat? | 00:01 |
| yashgaroth | I've often though of a huge mesh with adherent cells on it, and you just flush out media+product and flush in new media | 00:01 |
| nmz787 | saw this re floccing http://www.amb-express.com/content/2/1/38 | 00:01 |
| yashgaroth | but generally it's easier to just centrifuge and discard the cells, then grow more | 00:01 |
| nmz787 | can you cook the cells and feed them to the next batch? | 00:02 |
| yashgaroth | no that will scare the next batch and they won't make good protein | 00:02 |
| yashgaroth | or rather media is a minor cost in production so they don't bother trying to validate 'cooked cell broth' | 00:03 |
| yashgaroth | also most media these days are defined minimal media | 00:04 |
| nmz787 | "The average cell-cycle time of the faster-growing population was 52 min, which is among the shortest steady-state cell-cycle time of any eukaryotic organism on defined glucose ⁄ ammonium mineral medium, and is certainly much shorter than that of the more minimalist Mycoplasma genitalium" | 00:04 |
| nmz787 | the last part is interesting | 00:04 |
| yashgaroth | m genitalium isn't known for its fast replication | 00:05 |
| yashgaroth | and it's still a lot longer than many bacteria | 00:05 |
| nmz787 | but M. genitalium isnt a eukaryote right | 00:05 |
| yashgaroth | nope it's a mycoplasma | 00:06 |
| yashgaroth | smaller than most nuclei itself | 00:06 |
| nmz787 | weird | 00:06 |
| yashgaroth | also mycoplasma are huge assholes but I suppose that's irrelevant | 00:06 |
| nmz787 | assholes that take a long time are the worst | 00:11 |
| yashgaroth | I suppose it's related to them being tiny | 00:12 |
| yashgaroth | well anyway it's sleepy time for me | 00:16 |
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| nmz787 | whoa, this is pretty cool http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVekrZ-H5Pc&feature=etp-gs-hpl-02 | 02:09 |
| nmz787 | "H+ The Digital Series - Official Trailer" | 02:09 |
| nmz787 | http://hplusdigitalseries.com/ | 02:11 |
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| roksprok | thanks for the tip nmz787, checking it out now | 02:59 |
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| chris_99 | is it no longer possible to get bibtex from google | 06:20 |
| chris_99 | oh they've hidden the preferences link - http://scholar.google.co.uk/scholar_preferences | 06:22 |
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| cluckj | kanzure, http://www.fastcompany.com/3001309/biohackers-and-diy-cyborgs-clone-silicon-valley-innovation | 07:49 |
| cluckj | you will enjoy that | 07:49 |
| cluckj | on some level, at least | 07:49 |
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| @kanzure | cluckj: http://diyhpl.us/wiki/diybio/faq/news | 08:09 |
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| gnusha | diyhpluswiki.git: 20b8f98 syria biohacking group contact info | 08:27 |
| gnusha | diyhpluswiki.git: 3a8657e fix broken syria link and formatting | 08:30 |
| cluckj | kanzure, awesome. | 09:07 |
| cluckj | thanks | 09:07 |
| cluckj | how regular do you guys have meetings in texas? | 09:08 |
| cluckj | I'm trying to figure out when to go where and for how long | 09:08 |
| @kanzure | fuck meetings | 09:10 |
| @kanzure | we use the interwebs | 09:10 |
| @kanzure | So, never. | 09:10 |
| @kanzure | but if you were to show up, i could round up the usual culprits | 09:10 |
| cluckj | word | 09:12 |
| cluckj | I'm thinking jan/feb because winter here is the worst | 09:12 |
| cluckj | then the bay area in july so I can catch that fbi conference if they have it again | 09:13 |
| @kanzure | "Semi parametric version of Raspberry Pi Case" http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:30714 | 09:34 |
| @kanzure | http://blog.thingiverse.com/2012/09/19/progressive-cavity-pumps/ | 09:35 |
| @kanzure | openscad attachments library http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:30136 | 09:36 |
| @kanzure | prusa 2 blender files http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:28951 | 09:37 |
| @kanzure | "legitimate rape whistle" http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:29108 ... hah | 09:37 |
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| ParahSailin | sucks it doesnt whistle | 09:39 |
| @kanzure | i think that's the point | 09:41 |
| @kanzure | er, wait, no, that's opposite of the point | 09:41 |
| cluckj | it's ironic? | 09:42 |
| cluckj | I don't know | 09:42 |
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| @kanzure | strangewarp: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUxAwMHgrPQ | 09:50 |
| @kanzure | nekomimi. | 09:50 |
| @kanzure | oh this is neurosky? | 09:54 |
| chris_99 | haha that's crazy | 09:57 |
| @kanzure | http://www.neurosky.com/Necomimi/ | 09:57 |
| @kanzure | http://jp.necomimi.com/news/index.html | 09:58 |
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| AdrianG | lol | 10:05 |
| strangewarp | You're lucky I tabbed over, since this IRC client doesn't ping me when my name is mentioned :p | 10:07 |
| * strangewarp clicks dat utoob.. | 10:07 | |
| chris_99 | they should totally add a tail to that too | 10:07 |
| strangewarp | Oh, these things | 10:09 |
| strangewarp | chris_99: I think they just released a tail appliance, actually | 10:09 |
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| chris_99 | haha! | 10:09 |
| chris_99 | i want to drive my car now via my brainwaves ;) | 10:10 |
| strangewarp | Honestly.. I won't be interested in this sort of thing until they can send nerve signals, in addition to receiving them | 10:11 |
| ThomasEgi | against a tree? | 10:11 |
| strangewarp | But then, I'm kind of weird about the body | 10:11 |
| chris_99 | is there any other tech similar to EEG that's portable | 10:12 |
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| strangewarp | I like them as a fashion accessory, though | 10:13 |
| strangewarp | hm | 10:13 |
| chris_99 | wasn't there something to do with shining light into the brain, i'm not sure how well that would work, what with hair and whatnot | 10:13 |
| strangewarp | optogenetics? I've heard that's a crapshoot, judging from conversations I've lurked through in here | 10:14 |
| chris_99 | is this part of that - http://www.kurzweilai.net/how-to-stimulate-your-brain-by-shining-light-through-your-ears | 10:14 |
| chris_99 | ah no | 10:15 |
| chris_99 | that sounds interesting | 10:15 |
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| chris_99 | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7uRFVR9BPU seems to be an example of optogenetics | 10:17 |
| @kanzure | chris_99: ultrasound is more doable than optogenetics. optogenetics requires, uh, genetic manipulation. | 10:17 |
| chris_99 | depends what you want to do it too | 10:18 |
| chris_99 | i guess | 10:18 |
| @kanzure | stimulation. | 10:18 |
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| eudoxia | >this is how your gonna be controlled in the future if you don't act now sheeple | 10:33 |
| eudoxia | i should just, i dunno, write a chromium plugin the hides youtube comments | 10:34 |
| @kanzure | use youtube-dl or cclive | 10:35 |
| eudoxia | miss the description etc. | 10:35 |
| @kanzure | so? | 10:35 |
| eudoxia | i want to have the video and the description and the user and the recommended videos... just not anyone else | 10:35 |
| eudoxia | also i'm kinda disappointed the nekomimi only has three states | 10:41 |
| @kanzure | yes well, eeg is awful | 10:42 |
| eudoxia | would putting the electrodes under the dura significantly increase the resolution? | 10:47 |
| eudoxia | besides significantly increasing the chances of dying of a brain infection | 10:48 |
| yashgaroth | pretty sure the skull is the main inhibitor of signal | 10:48 |
| kirka | *To almost 100% | 10:49 |
| kirka | I think it's insane to "install" these implants | 10:49 |
| kirka | Like magnets and so on | 10:49 |
| kirka | It can easily infect user, and he'll die | 10:50 |
| strangewarp | Until someone cracks transdermal biocompatibility at DIY prices... | 10:50 |
| eudoxia | transdural* | 10:50 |
| yashgaroth | in the brain maybe, if it's in your finger you do have an immune system there | 10:50 |
| @kanzure | i don't think transdermal biocompatibility will improve how useless finger magnets are | 10:50 |
| strangewarp | eudoxia: whoops | 10:51 |
| kirka | These brain interfaces are very invasive and dangerous, Even lab ones | 10:51 |
| eudoxia | maybe the CSF can act as a heat exchanger | 10:52 |
| kirka | Isn't it rational to wait while implant technology will be perfected? | 10:54 |
| @kanzure | no | 10:55 |
| strangewarp | depends on what you mean by "rational" | 10:55 |
| @kanzure | kirka: also, read these. http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/neuro/implants/ | 10:55 |
| kirka | Why would someone healthy need BCI? | 10:55 |
| kirka | I dislike idea of brain implant actually | 10:55 |
| eudoxia | well, I dunno, but what I'd like to do is something like | 10:55 |
| @kanzure | at the moment a BCI can't do more than a few bits of information transfer per hour | 10:56 |
| eudoxia | WYTIWYG | 10:56 |
| Urchin | to interface with computer? | 10:56 |
| AlonzoTG | om | 10:56 |
| eudoxia | what you think is what you get | 10:56 |
| @kanzure | but ideally it would be much more information transfer | 10:56 |
| AlonzoTG | omg, someone's discussing something interesting in this channel | 10:56 |
| AlonzoTG | !!! | 10:56 |
| eudoxia | for codin' | 10:56 |
| * archels gasps | 10:56 | |
| Urchin | lol | 10:56 |
| kirka | Vision is fast, safe and natural interface to outside world including computers | 10:56 |
| @kanzure | kirka: it's not fast enough | 10:56 |
| @kanzure | and it's not natural enough | 10:56 |
| * eudoxia believes BCIs will make him a less shitty coder | 10:57 | |
| kirka | That's subjective | 10:57 |
| @kanzure | so? | 10:57 |
| archels | kirka: although I agree that the BCI technologies we have today are rather terrible, I could think of a few reasons why a healthy person would want a BCI! | 10:58 |
| strangewarp | Connecting things to the nervous system is the first step to both immersive haptic simulation, and extreme biomechatronic bodmods. And possibly that "uploading" stuff, as well | 10:58 |
| strangewarp | idk | 10:58 |
| eudoxia | AlonzoTG I found you in the technocalypse list the other day | 10:58 |
| AlonzoTG | =) | 10:58 |
| AlonzoTG | om | 10:58 |
| kirka | Well, for me cell repair machines will be enough | 10:58 |
| @kanzure | technocalypse was just michel bauwen's anti-transhumanism documentary | 10:58 |
| @kanzure | michel bauwen runs p2pfoundation and now seems to be far more pro-transhumanist | 10:58 |
| AlonzoTG | Yeah, I'm working on two writings that might show themselves in the coming days/weeks/months. | 10:59 |
| eudoxia | kanzure i thought it was originally a term by michael rosko that was adopted by the non-existent cult of transtopia | 10:59 |
| strangewarp | P2P Foundation recently hosted a Dale Carrico article, which made me dry-heave a bit | 10:59 |
| @kanzure | eudoxia: well, it's also the name of a documentary. it's pretty awful. | 10:59 |
| AlonzoTG | One is a paper called "topics in mind coalescence" which builds on someone else's paper called "coalescing minds". | 10:59 |
| @kanzure | AlonzoTG: your concept of 'minds' bores me. | 10:59 |
| eudoxia | kanzure yeah I saw a link to that one but didn't watch it, I assumed it would be awful | 10:59 |
| AlonzoTG | shut up. | 10:59 |
| yashgaroth | he's got you there kanz | 11:00 |
| AlonzoTG | The other is a killer app for neural interfacing, | 11:00 |
| AlonzoTG | which would be a full game, | 11:00 |
| archels | kanzure: On the subject of BCI, have you heard of the new superresolution microelectrodes? | 11:00 |
| strangewarp | So, fingernails seem like natural transdural ports, maybe that system can be co-opted | 11:01 |
| @kanzure | nah | 11:01 |
| AlonzoTG | where you mind-meld with your avatar and either fuck your brains out or explore different transhumanist paradigms, | 11:01 |
| AlonzoTG | ideally linked in to your home replicator. ;) | 11:01 |
| @kanzure | AlonzoTG: this sounds like second life, which was a terrible failure | 11:01 |
| eudoxia | strangewarp oh god no not sticking things under your fingernails | 11:01 |
| AlonzoTG | Agreed. | 11:01 |
| strangewarp | Second Life failed because it was not haptic | 11:01 |
| strangewarp | and programmed in a shitty way | 11:01 |
| @kanzure | no | 11:01 |
| AlonzoTG | Secondlife has been stagnant for at least five years now. | 11:01 |
| @kanzure | i don't think haptics would have made it better | 11:02 |
| archels | kanzure: They use CCD technology, so you essentially get as many electrodes as there are pixels on your camera. :) | 11:02 |
| @kanzure | joystick feedback never improves things that much | 11:02 |
| kirka | No wonder that h+ creates so ditorted image in public''s eyes, it's way too radical | 11:02 |
| strangewarp | kanzure: sorry, I should specify, "immersively haptic", not just haptic through some widget | 11:02 |
| @kanzure | kirka: joystick feedback isn't radical | 11:02 |
| kirka | BCI is | 11:02 |
| ThomasEgi | strangewarp, BCI isn't exactly the same as connecting stuff to the nerves running through your body. wiring up some nerves and connecting them to a computer (you don't even need transdermals for that), is a _comparebly_ easy task. | 11:02 |
| @kanzure | kirka: BCI already exists | 11:02 |
| kirka | Yes it does | 11:03 |
| strangewarp | ThomasEgi: Hmmm, point. So you could do everything subcutaneously, and then have wireless communication. | 11:03 |
| AlonzoTG | actually, there have been some revolutionary advances in the past few weeks. | 11:03 |
| AlonzoTG | on bio-compatible transistors and stuff... | 11:03 |
| AlonzoTG | a major enabling technology! | 11:03 |
| @kanzure | "revolutionary"? | 11:03 |
| yashgaroth | BCI is pretty mainstream futuristic, there's like a dozen movies where people "jack in" a needle into their brain | 11:03 |
| @kanzure | AlonzoTG: you're probably full of shit | 11:03 |
| AlonzoTG | fuck you, kanzure. | 11:03 |
| @kanzure | "revolutionary" is one of those tell words | 11:03 |
| AlonzoTG | In this case, I think it is, | 11:04 |
| AlonzoTG | because I think it will enable the ultimate form of human neural interfacing. | 11:04 |
| archels | kirka: Don't make us reiterate cochlear implants... | 11:04 |
| kirka | Yes they exist | 11:04 |
| @kanzure | cochlear implants are very mainstream | 11:04 |
| @kanzure | i think there's a few million in circulation, at least | 11:05 |
| ThomasEgi | and their audio-quality still sux badly compared to natural hearing. | 11:05 |
| kirka | But h+ guys postulate that BCI is almost mandatory to become "better" in some way | 11:05 |
| eudoxia | the ultimate form of neural interfacing is when your neurons are software objects | 11:05 |
| * eudoxia pisses people off with his uploading bullshit | 11:05 | |
| @kanzure | ThomasEgi: actually i hear that some of the newer ones are pretty great. still not as great as possible, but orders-of-magnitude better than the original crap. | 11:05 |
| kirka | Actually, I understand why Drexler doesn't talk about h+ and human enhancement | 11:06 |
| AlonzoTG | yeah, uploading is for fags. | 11:06 |
| -!- AlonzoTG was kicked from ##hplusroadmap by kanzure [AlonzoTG] | 11:06 | |
| @kanzure | uploading is one of his trigger words | 11:06 |
| archels | We also since recent got pretty decent retinal implants. | 11:06 |
| kirka | He is a humanist, and I'm too | 11:06 |
| archels | kanzure: haha | 11:06 |
| @kanzure | kirka: humans use BCIs. does that make me a bad person? | 11:06 |
| ThomasEgi | hehe easy to believe that. i think they started with like 16 electrodes for an cochlear implant.. iirc they are now at 64 or so. with some tricks to get a few more inbetweens stimulated | 11:06 |
| kirka | I like humanity as it is, I just need to live longer | 11:06 |
| kirka | kanzure No | 11:06 |
| @kanzure | kirka: then what do you have against computers?? | 11:07 |
| eudoxia | people I have successfully trolled on the internet with uploading: Christopher Phoenix, Alan Grimes | 11:07 |
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| AlonzoTG | =\ | 11:07 |
| kirka | I'm just trying to understand what's so interesting about BCI and diy implants | 11:07 |
| strangewarp | Uploading is a nice goal, but I think the most medium-term fun will be had in immersive simulations connected to the nervous system, honestly | 11:07 |
| @kanzure | AlonzoTG: you should refrain from talking about uploading in here. you are very bad about it. | 11:07 |
| archels | kirka: No one is forcing you to wear or implant a BCI, but personally I find it hard to see why you would not want it. :) | 11:07 |
| @kanzure | s/about it/at it | 11:07 |
| kirka | kanzure I actually like computing machines, but they are slaves to my will :) | 11:08 |
| AlonzoTG | That's a very difficult subject. | 11:08 |
| @kanzure | kirka: will? | 11:08 |
| AlonzoTG | Because a neural interface isn't just a neural interface. | 11:08 |
| kirka | kanzure As master and slave | 11:08 |
| AlonzoTG | I mean you need at least a few dozen killobytes of disambiguation to specify precisely what you mean by a neural interface... | 11:08 |
| AlonzoTG | There are hundreds of variables, | 11:08 |
| AlonzoTG | among them, and very important to me are: | 11:09 |
| AlonzoTG | can the gubbernment shut it off? | 11:09 |
| AlonzoTG | can a corporation shut it off? | 11:09 |
| AlonzoTG | do you have the source? | 11:09 |
| AlonzoTG | can it evolve over time as techniques improve? | 11:09 |
| @kanzure | i will kick you again if you turn into a government conspiracy theorist, damn it | 11:09 |
| AlonzoTG | How difficult will it be to get a hardware upgrade? | 11:09 |
| ThomasEgi | AlonzoTG, neural interface basically means. sending information from a machine, to your neurons. and back. | 11:09 |
| ThomasEgi | without all the phylosophical and social stuff attached | 11:09 |
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| @yashgaroth | hmm | 11:10 |
| strangewarp | kirka: Some people want totally rad bodmods; other people want to live in a noosphere; other people want to be heroic human masters of their domain. I try to respect all of these, since I think they are determined by a combination of ideology and level-of-body-dysmorphic-tendencies. | 11:10 |
| -!- mode/##hplusroadmap [+o archels] by kanzure | 11:10 | |
| AlonzoTG | Look, kanzure, I have more experience than almost anyone in arguing against uploading, so it is extremely insulting to say that I'm "bad at it"... | 11:10 |
| @kanzure | AlonzoTG: your arguments are "I have a psychological condition that makes me think you're all out to get me" | 11:10 |
| eudoxia | it's true he's been rambling on and on for years for everyone to see | 11:10 |
| cluckj | lol | 11:10 |
| kirka | satrangewarp Yes, but for h+ movement it's bad PR | 11:10 |
| eudoxia | http://groups.yahoo.com/group/technocalypse/ | 11:11 |
| @kanzure | eudoxia: who? | 11:11 |
| strangewarp | kirka: Hmm, possibly; depends on the framing of the argument. I get what you're saying though | 11:11 |
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| cpopell | Hey eudoxia | 11:11 |
| eudoxia | hey | 11:11 |
| kirka | strangewarp Actually I don't know a name for a movement that advocates acheiving better life standards through technology. I think such ideas could be popular. | 11:12 |
| @yashgaroth | pretty sure that's just civilization | 11:13 |
| @kanzure | and bathing | 11:13 |
| kirka | There are either people who don't care, or radical h+ guys who'll are already implanting stuff into their bodies | 11:13 |
| @kanzure | most of the people implanting things are idiots. it's not radical. | 11:13 |
| kirka | Heh | 11:14 |
| kirka | I think so | 11:14 |
| @kanzure | wait, no, i think that's the definition of radical | 11:14 |
| @kanzure | ok whatever | 11:14 |
| eudoxia | i wouldn't say lepht is an idiot, she's just, like, psychoti | 11:14 |
| ThomasEgi | kanzure, +1 on the idiot thing as many don't even do their most basic homework about what's dangerous to a body and what's not. | 11:14 |
| strangewarp | Yeah, implanting stuff is only good for making yourself feel radical; it isn't meaningfully transgressive with the banal level of sophistication you can currently get in DIY implants | 11:14 |
| @kanzure | ThomasEgi: so.. running 3 million amps through my heart, totally ok right? :) | 11:15 |
| ThomasEgi | kanzure, there are people who think that's apparently no problem :D | 11:15 |
| eudoxia | has there yet been a case of someone brutally maiming their fingers in an attempt to get magnetic implants? | 11:15 |
| ThomasEgi | very few know better. and even less know well enough to build implant's that work fine. | 11:15 |
| @kanzure | eudoxia: new plan! let's put a rfid chip on a table, place our finger over it and smash our finger with a hammer until it's embedded | 11:16 |
| kirka | I think that general public should have greater awareness of possibilities to improve human condition that technology gives us. That's necessary to make fatal crisis less probable in the future. That's why PR is important. | 11:16 |
| @kanzure | PR is not going to save the world | 11:16 |
| ThomasEgi | true. | 11:16 |
| @kanzure | the world doesn't need saving anyway | 11:16 |
| ThomasEgi | and those idiot's are causing a lot of bad PR | 11:16 |
| kirka | kanzure You are right | 11:16 |
| ThomasEgi | which makes it harder for the few people who know what htey are doing. | 11:16 |
| @kanzure | most people like cpopell are telling me that PR will attract smart people to work on projects | 11:16 |
| eudoxia | achieving your goals by working on projects is the best pr | 11:17 |
| @kanzure | but so far the PR has just attracted people who aren't educated | 11:17 |
| cpopell | Sup | 11:17 |
| cpopell | cpopell is doinh. | 11:17 |
| @kanzure | cpopell: your theory is failing on me | 11:17 |
| kirka | kanzure But public awareness could make transition less turbulent => less dangerous | 11:17 |
| cpopell | Doing his own thing | 11:17 |
| ThomasEgi | kanzure, i can totaly agree with that observation | 11:17 |
| cpopell | kirka, thats why im trying to get my consulting firm going | 11:18 |
| kirka | That's a good thing to do | 11:18 |
| cpopell | However,I am definitely a radical | 11:18 |
| cpopell | Id love to be a lobbyist | 11:20 |
| kirka | Could you lobby for MNT funding a little? :) | 11:21 |
| eudoxia | seconding that | 11:21 |
| cpopell | I need to find clients. Eudoxia, apply yet? | 11:22 |
| eudoxia | cpopell in process. i'll take the SAT in two weeks and the subject tests in early november so I'll be applying regular action | 11:23 |
| cpopell | Okay. Keep me updated. | 11:24 |
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| cpopell2 | yeh. | 11:39 |
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| nsh | <cpopell> Id love to be a lobbyist | 12:34 |
| nsh | and other awful things i read on the internet | 12:34 |
| kirka | Heh | 12:34 |
| nsh | :) | 12:34 |
| kirka | Maybe he wants to lobby for rational projects | 12:34 |
| * nsh blinks | 12:34 | |
| nsh | that's like announcing for privacy | 12:35 |
| nsh | no, i'm being facetious | 12:35 |
| kirka | Heh | 12:35 |
| nsh | you can do good advocacy work | 12:35 |
| nsh | c.f EFF etc. | 12:35 |
| cpopell2 | explicitly | 12:38 |
| cpopell2 | I want to lobby for non-destructive tech policy | 12:38 |
| cpopell2 | by clarifying to rich old dudes | 12:38 |
| cpopell2 | just what's in it for them | 12:38 |
| kirka | It's strange for me that they do not understand that they would benefit from medical nanotechnology, for example | 12:39 |
| @kanzure | kirka: rich old dudes will be dead before medical nanotechnology works | 12:39 |
| cpopell2 | not if they threw enough cash at it >_> | 12:39 |
| cpopell2 | I'm constantly dismayed that the gates foundation has like 400B | 12:39 |
| bkero | cpopell2: They can throw all the cash they want | 12:40 |
| @kanzure | throwing money will not reduce the amount of work that is required | 12:40 |
| cpopell2 | no, but it will incentivize working on it | 12:40 |
| bkero | cpopell2: http://t.co/ku11fbS2 | 12:40 |
| @kanzure | no you just claimed that they wouldn't be dead | 12:40 |
| bkero | That article goes over directly that | 12:40 |
| @kanzure | so now you're claiming something else | 12:40 |
| kirka | kanzure Yes, now it's too late for them. But in 1991 they still had time | 12:40 |
| bkero | They can throw obscene amounts of money at it, but it's no guarantee it will work or be done in their lifetime :) | 12:40 |
| cpopell2 | I'm not convinced we're anywhere near a saturation point | 12:40 |
| @kanzure | cpopell2: you seem to be unable to follow your own argument | 12:41 |
| cpopell2 | kanzure: I'd say 50 year olds have a decent chance | 12:41 |
| bkero | If you want something that doesn't exist, there's only a probability you can get it | 12:41 |
| @kanzure | it's like talking to a wall :( | 12:41 |
| * kanzure goes back to fixing his cipher | 12:41 | |
| cpopell2 | Don't worry, I feel the same way | 12:41 |
| cpopell2 | hi5 | 12:41 |
| cpopell2 | it's like talking to my ex-girlfriend, fundamentally alien ways of thinking | 12:41 |
| cpopell2 | :P | 12:41 |
| @kanzure | 12:39 < cpopell2> not if they threw enough cash at it | 12:42 |
| @kanzure | 12:40 < cpopell2> no, but it will incentivize working on it | 12:42 |
| @kanzure | your second statement does not support your rich old dude argument | 12:42 |
| @kanzure | this isn't alien, this is english.. | 12:42 |
| cpopell2 | Throwing cash does not reduce work needed | 12:42 |
| cpopell2 | but it increases the number of workers | 12:42 |
| cpopell2 | As well as how frugal said workers have to be | 12:42 |
| @kanzure | increasing the number of people working on a problem doesn't necessarily solve the problem faster | 12:43 |
| @kanzure | e.g. 9 women can't have 1 baby in 1 month | 12:43 |
| cpopell2 | ... | 12:43 |
| @kanzure | cpopell2: you certainly haven't accelerated freitas' research, for example. | 12:44 |
| @kanzure | (since we were talking about nanotechnology) | 12:45 |
| kirka | cpopell2 What do you think of molecular nanotechnology? | 12:46 |
| cpopell2 | If it advances human capability, I support it* | 12:46 |
| kirka | That's good, thanks | 12:46 |
| cpopell2 | *(I feel free to disregard this statement in a variety of ethical situations about how said advancements come about) | 12:47 |
| kirka | Heh | 12:47 |
| kirka | As I can see there are ~5-10 MNT researchers in America | 12:48 |
| kirka | That's ridiculous | 12:48 |
| cpopell2 | yeah | 12:48 |
| cpopell2 | I did nano stuff but it was all the micro/nano border | 12:48 |
| kirka | There are probably a lot of people that wanted to make MNT their scientific career | 12:49 |
| kirka | I wonder why they don't do it, where is the barrier | 12:49 |
| @kanzure | because science doesn't pay | 12:49 |
| @kanzure | and academia is abusive. | 12:50 |
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| cpopell2 | Yup | 12:50 |
| cpopell2 | this is why I came very close to simply dropping my masters. | 12:50 |
| Urchin | sounds right | 12:50 |
| cpopell2 | Also, kirka, for instance, my lab setup is ~200k (well, the one my research comes from. I use a computer) | 12:50 |
| kirka | That's not a whole lot of money | 12:51 |
| @kanzure | i should form an anti-science-abuse league | 12:51 |
| @kanzure | s/science/scientist | 12:51 |
| kirka | It's strange that hevyweights like Gates invest in nuclear reactors and nanoparticles, but don't invest in MNT | 12:52 |
| kirka | Maybe I don't have enough information, I could be wrong | 12:53 |
| Urchin | nuclear reactors are important too | 12:53 |
| kirka | Yes I agree | 12:53 |
| kirka | Of courdse they are | 12:53 |
| strangewarp | Nuclear reactors are space-cadet crowd-pleasers, and malaria vaccines are ideology-food for green-earth techno-regressives | 12:54 |
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| cpopell2 | kirka: The smarthand project had 5 million euros of funding, total | 12:54 |
| cpopell2 | from what I recall | 12:54 |
| kirka | strangewarp So you suggest that he runs the whole thing just for PR? Could be so. | 12:54 |
| cpopell2 | I don't know if we've SEEN his endgame yet | 12:55 |
| strangewarp | kirka: Gates didn't donate to charity until Bill Clinton dragged him out into the open for it, so... | 12:55 |
| ParahSailin | mnt? | 12:55 |
| kirka | strangewarp Interesting, thanks | 12:55 |
| cpopell2 | I wouldn't be surprised if gates is secretly backing Planetary Resources | 12:55 |
| kirka | ParahSailin http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molecular_nanotechnology | 12:55 |
| ParahSailin | lftr is cool, not just a crowd-pleaser | 12:56 |
| ParahSailin | unfortun | 12:56 |
| cpopell2 | ugh, why'd you sign off eudoxia | 12:56 |
| kirka | btw That's the best bionic arm I have seen: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyCLuVOmZxo | 12:56 |
| ParahSailin | ately someone like bill gates is the only one with enough money to navigate the aec | 12:56 |
| ParahSailin | peter thiel doesnt even have enough money to do a thorium reactor | 12:57 |
| Urchin | civilization-wise I see space colonization as the most important upcomming project | 12:57 |
| ParahSailin | colonize antarctica, then moon | 12:58 |
| Urchin | nah, just go straight for the asteroids and build space stations | 12:58 |
| ParahSailin | "oh, that's too expensive and no reason?" | 12:58 |
| strangewarp | turn mars into computronium! | 12:59 |
| Urchin | enough with these fucking gravity wells! | 12:59 |
| kirka | kanzure Do you think that positive public attitude towards MNT would move Congress? | 12:59 |
| ParahSailin | "carry on, do something even more expensive and more pointless" | 12:59 |
| @kanzure | kirka: i don't care about congress' thoughts about molecular nanotechnology | 12:59 |
| Urchin | isn't it a current argument that the Earth can't support our present level of population? | 12:59 |
| kirka | kanzure They still have money and power | 12:59 |
| @kanzure | Urchin: no, the earth can support a few multiples of our population size | 13:00 |
| ParahSailin | Urchin, evidence is no | 13:00 |
| Urchin | does it not stand to reason that we should look for that support elsewhere then? | 13:00 |
| kirka | kanzure But you know it better | 13:00 |
| @kanzure | kirka: i don't care. i also have money and power. | 13:00 |
| ParahSailin | see: current earth population | 13:00 |
| Urchin | well, it's still a popular argument | 13:00 |
| @kanzure | the argument doesn't make sense | 13:00 |
| @kanzure | it's cheaper to just kill all humans | 13:00 |
| @kanzure | if that's your concern. | 13:00 |
| Urchin | it's not | 13:00 |
| Urchin | space colonization is | 13:01 |
| kirka | I think it's important to have a "backup" of our civilisation | 13:01 |
| @kanzure | kirka: definitely. | 13:01 |
| kirka | But with current technology it would be very complex enterprise | 13:02 |
| Urchin | so? | 13:02 |
| @kanzure | so? | 13:02 |
| kirka | I don't know | 13:02 |
| kirka | It would be great if we had a little bas on the moon before molecular assembler is developed | 13:03 |
| kirka | *base | 13:03 |
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| eudoxia | kirka you are taking robert too seriously | 13:48 |
| eudoxia | we are not at risk of being scavanged for atoms by ecophages | 13:48 |
| kirka | I understand | 13:48 |
| kirka | Who is Robert? | 13:48 |
| eudoxia | freitas | 13:49 |
| kirka | No, I'm not goo guy | 13:49 |
| eudoxia | cookie-cutter guy then? :P | 13:49 |
| cpopell_ | eudoxia, you're on :V | 13:49 |
| kirka | But we have a lot of other weapons | 13:49 |
| kirka | Nuclear, biological | 13:49 |
| kirka | Sure, they probably cannot destroy whole population | 13:50 |
| eudoxia | but with mnt you can make a shitton of nukes? | 13:50 |
| eudoxia | I doubt it | 13:50 |
| kirka | NO | 13:50 |
| kirka | We already have nukes | 13:50 |
| kirka | *no | 13:50 |
| eudoxia | I just don't see how MNT plays into the need to have a moon base | 13:50 |
| kirka | Ther is possibility of some war caused by economic turbulence | 13:51 |
| eudoxia | an assembler-centered economy would definitely change the economy | 13:52 |
| kirka | I agree, Moon base seems an excess | 13:52 |
| eudoxia | a friend of mine convinced me colonizing the ocean was better | 13:52 |
| kirka | Looks rational. With geothermal energy I suppose? | 13:53 |
| eudoxia | I think he suggested hydrothermal vents | 13:54 |
| kirka | Ah | 13:54 |
| eudoxia | which is the same | 13:54 |
| strangewarp | When people have their basic needs of food, water, and housing satiated, they're less likely to become warlike.. so if you get molecular assemblers to the point where they're acting as public dispensers for such things, it would probably make the world more stable, not less | 13:54 |
| cpopell_ | moon is a good place to do construction | 13:54 |
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| kirka | I think universal ecophage isn't possible in near future. For example it would need a lot of tools, maybe 1000s to deal woth diffirent atoms and molecules | 13:55 |
| eudoxia | precisely | 13:56 |
| kirka | strangewarp I hope it's so | 13:56 |
| eudoxia | that's one point I never heard Freitas address | 13:56 |
| strangewarp | Maybe, but all you'd need is a box that can assemble basic nutrition, clean water, and building materials, and you'd be set | 13:56 |
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| eudoxia | I was thinking something more like, MNT to create microfluidic ordinary-chemistry plants to synthesize some basic food chemicals | 13:56 |
| strangewarp | So the problem is hard, definitely, but doesn't require a /comprehensive/ solution - just a good-enough solution | 13:56 |
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| kirka | I hope so | 13:58 |
| kirka | Threr are still politics who think with balls, not their heads | 13:58 |
| kirka | And military guys | 13:58 |
| strangewarp | "The grand irony of the modern age is that technologies of abundance are held by elites who think only in terms of scarcity" | 13:58 |
| * strangewarp /paraphrasing | 13:59 | |
| eudoxia | oh good i thought it was an original quote | 13:59 |
| eudoxia | since google didn't find it | 13:59 |
| kirka | eudoxia For radical solution of food problem, I thought about engineering a plant that grows easiliy and produces fruits tailored to human nutritional needs. But that's order of magnitude more complex than current genetic engineering. | 13:59 |
| kirka | Heh | 14:00 |
| cpopell_ | radical solution of food problem: improve distribution | 14:00 |
| strangewarp | There are two paths to the food problem: improving distribution, and improving food-bootstrapping tech | 14:00 |
| strangewarp | I advise pursuing both | 14:00 |
| @kanzure | i advise catapults for food distribution | 14:03 |
| @kanzure | we can catapult food with railguns from our backyards to siberia or w/e | 14:03 |
| kirka | Heh | 14:03 |
| strangewarp | I choose... to take that idea seriously | 14:04 |
| strangewarp | hmmm | 14:04 |
| kirka | Thre aren't much people in Siberia | 14:04 |
| eudoxia | I don't think that's sustainable | 14:04 |
| eudoxia | railguns are expensive | 14:04 |
| @kanzure | there's prolly a cheaper way to catapult things | 14:04 |
| kirka | I think Africas food problems are caused by laziness - they could have three harvests per year | 14:04 |
| strangewarp | err | 14:05 |
| kirka | Israel exports food grown with hydroponics | 14:05 |
| strangewarp | Africa's politics are fucked up from the legacy of colonialism and post-colonialism, and their famines and wars are caused by the political fallout thereof | 14:06 |
| kirka | And Palestina lives off humanitarian aids | 14:06 |
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| ParahSailin | africa's food problems are because colonists wanted to plant annual corn that is not really suited to the lcimate | 14:06 |
| kirka | Hmmh | 14:06 |
| ParahSailin | previously subsaharan africa was pastoralist as in herding animals that eat grass | 14:06 |
| cpopell_ | politics and war =/= laziness | 14:06 |
| ParahSailin | less erosion and desertification that way | 14:07 |
| eudoxia | don't forget diseases | 14:07 |
| kirka | They are incapable of forming effective governments on their own, it seems | 14:07 |
| kirka | Africa is full of dictators | 14:07 |
| ParahSailin | who is capable of forming effective governments | 14:07 |
| eudoxia | well, what passes for effective in the world | 14:07 |
| kirka | West is good at it, seriously | 14:07 |
| @kanzure | no we'er not | 14:07 |
| cpopell_ | I think you're ignoring context in a lot of ways, kirka | 14:08 |
| kirka | Better than rest of the world | 14:08 |
| kirka | Probably | 14:08 |
| strangewarp | The lines that make up many African countries are the same ones that were drawn by colonial interests, and often contain multiple incompatible cultural groups in a manner that leads to strife | 14:08 |
| kirka | I just don't like that 3rd world countries are exploiting humanitarian aid | 14:08 |
| cpopell_ | what do you think about south america, kirka? | 14:08 |
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| strangewarp | Dictatorships like the D.R. Congo are largely sustained by neo-colonial resource-extraction companies, who will prop up a corrupt government in order to keep prices low | 14:08 |
| kirka | Well Brazil seems to be on right way | 14:08 |
| kirka | I may have a large pro-capitalist bias, yes | 14:09 |
| cpopell_ | I have a large pro-capitalist bias as well, but I also realize it's not a mathematically perfect system | 14:10 |
| ParahSailin | pro-capitalist or pro-mercantilist? | 14:10 |
| kirka | Because I'm precepting results of 70 years communism building right now | 14:10 |
| cpopell_ | I'm sort of fond of a mixed capitalist/socialist society | 14:10 |
| kirka | ParahSailin Sorry, I haven't heard about mercantilism as separate doctrine | 14:11 |
| kirka | Hmmh | 14:11 |
| kirka | I have strong anti-socialist and anti-communist bias as well | 14:11 |
| strangewarp | Honestly.. the USSR's form of communism, as set forth by Lenin at the second International, required so much ideological purification that it would inevitably create an environment of corruption and repression | 14:12 |
| ParahSailin | certain political scientists have tried to reclaim the word capitalism from the way marx defined it as a synonym for mercantilism | 14:12 |
| kirka | Russia was richer before commies came | 14:12 |
| strangewarp | But, I don't think there is anything objectively wrong with communalist efforts in general | 14:12 |
| cpopell_ | I support socialism to some degree at this point mainly because there aren't going to be enough jobs for people soon | 14:12 |
| cpopell_ | even more so than now | 14:12 |
| kirka | Yes, jobs seem a problem | 14:12 |
| kirka | Meybe grundeneinkomm could work | 14:12 |
| kirka | *Maybe | 14:12 |
| ParahSailin | generally they distinguish "good capitalism" from mercantilism as the absence of monopolies to capital owners | 14:13 |
| kirka | But that means that government has to do domething to monopolists? | 14:14 |
| kirka | It looks to me that most monopolies will decay by themeselves as a consequence of low mobility: look at Microsoft | 14:15 |
| eudoxia | last i checked microsoft is still going strong and only 1-2% of people use linux on the desktop | 14:15 |
| strangewarp | Microsoft is trying to stop people from switching to Linux by strong-arming the chip manufacturers into hardcoding mechanisms that only accept Windows OSes.. | 14:15 |
| ParahSailin | i mean government-granted monopolies | 14:16 |
| kirka | Yes, but it's not the largest IT commpany anymore | 14:16 |
| kirka | ParahSailin That's bad, I agree | 14:16 |
| ParahSailin | a la the east india company, or a modern days IP profiteer | 14:16 |
| eudoxia | oh god why did you have to bring that up | 14:16 |
| eudoxia | Intel's latest chip will be a "Windows 8 only chip" | 14:16 |
| * eudoxia 's aneurysm just keeps getting bigger and bigger | 14:17 | |
| * kirka has AMD | 14:17 | |
| @kanzure | so 70 million linux users? | 14:18 |
| @kanzure | and 500 million android/linux users | 14:18 |
| chris_99 | is that for real eudoxia? | 14:18 |
| Urchin | linux is very much on servers | 14:18 |
| kirka | I thought a lot about possible benefits of centralized automated industry goverened by control theory alorithms and came to conclusion that their time was in 20 century, Modern world cannot be centralized anymore | 14:19 |
| eudoxia | http://techcrunch.com/2012/09/14/new-intel-chip-wont-support-linux/ | 14:19 |
| kirka | There was such project in USSR | 14:19 |
| kirka | But it was abandoned | 14:19 |
| kirka | Maybe that's a good thing | 14:20 |
| strangewarp | It could have turned things around, honestly, if the USSR's leadership weren't so resistant to automation | 14:20 |
| kirka | Yes | 14:20 |
| strangewarp | But, the USSR was a fatally flawed project, thanks to Lenin's early obsession with ideological purity.. | 14:21 |
| chris_99 | i'm confused by that eudoxia it say's it's x86 | 14:21 |
| eudoxia | "any ideology that requires changing human nature is bound to fail" | 14:21 |
| kirka | It's a good thing that that archaic regime cdidn't crashed 20 years later | 14:21 |
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| strangewarp | indeed | 14:21 |
| Urchin | hm,14th most powerful supercomputer is running windows | 14:21 |
| kirka | We have cold war ended | 14:22 |
| eudoxia | chris_99 I'm confused too. I did not know processors had to support operating systems, and not the other way around. | 14:22 |
| chris_99 | it's just that it's not supported | 14:22 |
| chris_99 | it doesn't mean it wont run | 14:22 |
| kirka | Clover Trail is just a chip for tablets | 14:22 |
| Urchin | Lenin was getting his act together near the end, Stalin fucked things up | 14:23 |
| chris_99 | also it's just a crappy Atom chip ;) | 14:23 |
| kirka | They all had criminal past: STalin actually robbed banks | 14:23 |
| Urchin | lol | 14:23 |
| chris_99 | so, how are Lenin/Stalin actually commies? | 14:24 |
| Urchin | Stalin had one good thing going for him during WWII, he was *proven* to be a lousy military commander | 14:24 |
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| kirka | chris_99 They called themeselves "communists" | 14:25 |
| kirka | Oh, it's late already | 14:26 |
| * kirka sleeps | 14:26 | |
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| chris_99 | https://www.coursera.org/course/bioelectricity | 14:27 |
| cpopell_ | viscosity had a larger than predicted effect on droplet size | 14:34 |
| cpopell_ | fuuuuck | 14:34 |
| cpopell_ | on the other hand, I predicted the response to all other variables | 14:34 |
| chris_99 | pardon? | 14:34 |
| cpopell_ | my masters thesis model | 14:36 |
| chris_99 | whats your thesis on? | 14:38 |
| cpopell_ | 'A physics inspired control oriented model of near field electrohydrodynamic inkjet printing' | 14:40 |
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| @kanzure | i wonder if open hardware summit will ask makerbot to not be present | 17:18 |
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| @kanzure | hah "which means if you want real information about a given drug then the only way to get it is to subpoena the FDA, or read a book written by someone who has." | 17:19 |
| brownies | kanzure: hey, so i was reading that instructables thing about "make your own PCR with 3 pieces of wood and a laser" or something | 17:20 |
| brownies | kanzure: why don't people just make a bunch of those wee PCR machines and sell them? | 17:20 |
| @kanzure | they do.. that's what openpcr is | 17:21 |
| @kanzure | except they priced it at >$500 | 17:21 |
| brownies | but isn't it like $12 in parts? | 17:21 |
| @kanzure | yes | 17:21 |
| brownies | kanzure: isn't it open-source? why doesn't someone else just start selling it for $25? | 17:21 |
| brownies | although i guess they have no shortage of people willing to pay http://openpcr.org/2012/06/alas-openpcr-is-pre-stocked/ | 17:22 |
| @kanzure | do you really want to sit around procuring parts and packing boxes | 17:23 |
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| brownies | wait, they send it to you as a kit o.O you have to assemble it yourself like a jackass | 17:23 |
| @kanzure | i think they were doing laser cut parts, so they were running a laser cutter all day or something | 17:24 |
| brownies | kanzure: yeah, i guess i'd demand a 4000% profit margin for doing that, too. | 17:24 |
| @kanzure | i agree with you that someone should do it, but i don't know if i like the numbers enough | 17:24 |
| brownies | kanzure: yeah, that's the other thing. wtf @ the wood paneling! | 17:24 |
| brownies | i'd like to see it done with some laser-cut aluminum, with a branding/logo lasered into the back | 17:25 |
| brownies | sell the whole thing preassembled, shiny, and ready to go. | 17:25 |
| @kanzure | i'm sure it can be chinified easily | 17:25 |
| @kanzure | i'd be more interested in finding a chinese reverse engineering shop | 17:25 |
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| brownies | kanzure: heh. i'm sure they're all busy ;) | 17:26 |
| @kanzure | send them a unit -> get back 10 chinese knock-offs. | 17:26 |
| hifrog | oh, ah... http://arstechnica.com/science/2012/09/pulsating-nanotube-spits-out-buckyballs/ | 17:26 |
| @kanzure | but then you have quality issues and you have to teach them how to test it, and pay them to test it, etc. | 17:26 |
| brownies | kanzure: more like... send them a unit ... get back 100 knock-offs... hope that 1 of them works. | 17:26 |
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| @kanzure | brownies: they're both in sf btw, josh and tito. josh is a software guy. | 17:27 |
| @kanzure | if you wanted to, say, go talk to him. | 17:28 |
| brownies | kanzure: might take you up on that later | 17:28 |
| brownies | not sure what i'd talk about with him atm, other than "zomg get your branding together man" | 17:28 |
| @kanzure | sure. | 17:29 |
| @kanzure | i think lots of teachers were paying for it | 17:29 |
| @kanzure | i'm not completely sure though, it's definitely out of the price range of teachers | 17:29 |
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| brownies | yeah, that seems strange. you mean professors? | 17:34 |
| brownies | there's no way in hell a teacher has $600 | 17:34 |
| @kanzure | no professors apparently get lab equipment via an initial career/lab grant from the university/NIH | 17:35 |
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| @kanzure | i could see a few biology teachers at a high school chipping in for one | 17:36 |
| @kanzure | but certainly not a single teacher | 17:36 |
| @kanzure | and, it's not exactly diybioers, because i hear almost nobody talking about their openpcr on diybio | 17:36 |
| @kanzure | so who exactly is buying this junk? | 17:37 |
| delinquentme | bc the cost? | 17:37 |
| @kanzure | teachers are poor | 17:37 |
| delinquentme | So like market fit right? | 17:38 |
| delinquentme | who uses really niche versions of orbital shakers? | 17:38 |
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| delinquentme | the easiest business model is PAY ME for shit | 17:38 |
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| delinquentme | but at the same time ... that market fit could turn that into pay me 10x | 17:39 |
| @kanzure | what are you talking about | 17:39 |
| delinquentme | cost on orbital shakers | 17:39 |
| delinquentme | and how can I build out a niche product | 17:39 |
| @kanzure | why | 17:39 |
| delinquentme | $$ | 17:40 |
| @kanzure | you've already demonstrated your inability to deliver prototypes or do marketing | 17:40 |
| delinquentme | kanzure, fuck yourself | 17:40 |
| delinquentme | sincerely | 17:40 |
| delinquentme | dont ever say shit like that | 17:40 |
| @kanzure | :\ so how is an orbital shaker different from the liquid handler though | 17:40 |
| delinquentme | what do you mean | 17:40 |
| @kanzure | i would prefer the liquid handling machine to suceed more than i'd care about an orbital shaker | 17:40 |
| @kanzure | people asked you to show your prototype doing things and you refused | 17:41 |
| delinquentme | yeah but I'm lacking the stack knowledge on how to put it together | 17:41 |
| @kanzure | they were going to buy things from you, possibly | 17:41 |
| @kanzure | what? you had it working i thought | 17:41 |
| delinquentme | the 001 was a joke | 17:41 |
| delinquentme | like it got pumping | 17:41 |
| delinquentme | but not reliably | 17:41 |
| @kanzure | i see. i didn't know this. | 17:41 |
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| delinquentme | I know that the shaker has value so like stepping in the direction is a smart move | 17:42 |
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| delinquentme | and it gets me industry contacts | 17:42 |
| delinquentme | I've got the materials sitting at my house to start building | 17:42 |
| delinquentme | lasercut parts came in yesterday | 17:42 |
| delinquentme | now i just need afew more screws off mcmaster | 17:42 |
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| delinquentme | the issue on the full on LH002 is that when people need to make revisions or add additional functionality | 17:43 |
| delinquentme | I didn't have a solid solution for " how can I simply add another encoder here? " | 17:43 |
| delinquentme | like it would require a redesign of the chips I was using ... which is dumb | 17:43 |
| delinquentme | is I2c sufficiently fast to run a LH machine? | 17:44 |
| delinquentme | IDK | 17:44 |
| delinquentme | but that style protocol lends itself well to modularity | 17:44 |
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| delinquentme | YES the LH is more interesting ... but I know I can deliver on a shaker without an issue | 17:44 |
| delinquentme | and move from there | 17:44 |
| delinquentme | very soon I get to call the dude @ gilson up who shot me down | 17:45 |
| delinquentme | and be like ' You should buy a few of these ' | 17:45 |
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| @kanzure | ok so you were trying to get them to buy a thing that didn't exist | 17:46 |
| @kanzure | that's a pretty good reason for them to not have given you money | 17:47 |
| delinquentme | kanzure, stop being the asshole in the room with all the alleged answers | 17:47 |
| @kanzure | that's a different story from what i thought you were pitching a few minutes ago. | 17:48 |
| delinquentme | seriously theres a million variables and you're claiming to grok the specifics of how it want down | 17:48 |
| delinquentme | went** | 17:48 |
| delinquentme | and I dont follow | 17:48 |
| @kanzure | yes, because of what you told me previously.. which turned out to be wrong. | 17:48 |
| @kanzure | i was using the previous information to inform my statements about your orbital shaker marketing crusade. | 17:48 |
| @kanzure | people don't just give you money without working demos. but as i've now learned, you weren't telling them that you had a working prototype. as long as you understand that the same rule applies for an orbital shaker, go for it. | 17:50 |
| delinquentme | kanzure, clearly kickstarted doesnt work | 17:51 |
| delinquentme | kickstarter* -- specifically people never. EVER. get $$ w/o working demos | 17:51 |
| delinquentme | I mean like we could go on all night w shit like this ... but its just not productive | 17:51 |
| @kanzure | you mean going on talking about kickstarter? | 17:52 |
| delinquentme | in response to <kanzure> people don't just give you money without working demos. | 17:52 |
| @kanzure | ok so you disagree with that? and that's why you would be talking about it all night? | 17:53 |
| delinquentme | I mean ... | 17:56 |
| delinquentme | OK heres a synopsis of the stack: | 17:57 |
| delinquentme | humans = complex | 17:57 |
| delinquentme | depending on who you're selling to .. different things will work | 17:57 |
| delinquentme | yes there are major factors .. having a proto would be one of those ... but like say you've got the street cred .. youd probably not need a proto | 17:57 |
| @kanzure | brownies: so on one of my paying gigs.. they started to put javascript in erb files while i was working on another thing. words can't explain my sadness right now. | 17:58 |
| delinquentme | example w peter diamandis ... and the x prize ... he didn't have the product .. but he convinced people because he had convinced others to stand with him on it | 17:58 |
| delinquentme | I mean I think you're intention is to help | 17:59 |
| delinquentme | but! what I could really use help on is picking out specific markets | 17:59 |
| delinquentme | I know " really big ass duty shakers " is a niche | 17:59 |
| delinquentme | another niche im thinking exists is " slave this to another machine easily " | 17:59 |
| delinquentme | robotic arm controlling a shaker has value | 18:00 |
| delinquentme | X controlling a shaker .. has value | 18:00 |
| delinquentme | temp controlled shakers .. are also a niche .. GE makes a killing on these things at like 4k a pop | 18:00 |
| delinquentme | like its this kinda stuff with which I can put your knowledge to use ... sales I think I've got a decent hold on | 18:03 |
| @kanzure | brownies: wait no it's even worse; binary data is being directly written into <script> by a template by something that pulls a file from s3. | 18:03 |
| brownies | kanzure: we have some js.erb files. it's not a big deal. | 18:05 |
| brownies | well, that second thing is pretty bad. rofl. | 18:05 |
| @kanzure | why do you have .js.erb files >:( | 18:06 |
| @kanzure | delinquentme: ok we are on two different wavelengths. our previous conversation was about something completely different. | 18:06 |
| brownies | kanzure: usually we end up being forced to tack on the ERB so that we can use the url/path helpers | 18:07 |
| brownies | iirc we're not using any other ERB, as that would be strange and terrifying. | 18:07 |
| brownies | hm, i wonder, is that killing our load times? does the idiot Rails server generate that JS file uniquely each time? | 18:07 |
| brownies | ugh... it probably does. fuck. | 18:07 |
| @kanzure | your urls/paths shouldn't be changing that regularly dude :P | 18:07 |
| brownies | kanzure: it's largely to make it seamless between dev and production | 18:08 |
| brownies | kanzure: and they do change somewhat often, since we recompile and update static assets regularly | 18:08 |
| * brownies pulls up the actual codebase to see how prevalent this is | 18:08 | |
| delinquentme | kanzure, I mean I told you what I could *SUPERLY* use from your knowledge | 18:09 |
| delinquentme | you should be able to tell whats holding you up by just looking at the server logs... | 18:09 |
| delinquentme | Completed in 67ms (View: 65, DB: 0) | 200 OK [http://localhost/login] | 18:10 |
| brownies | kanzure: never mind. we only use it in one file, to swap out production/dev API keys | 18:10 |
| brownies | <% if Rails.env.production? %> stupid_api_key = etc. <% else %> etc. | 18:10 |
| @kanzure | brownies: i sort of feel like that shouldn't be done by erb :P | 18:10 |
| cluckj | mmm yeah just built a fractal tv antenna out of aluminum foil :) | 18:12 |
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| @kanzure | virnovus: hi | 18:13 |
| virnovus | hi | 18:13 |
| virnovus | hey, i just found this video. I have a hard time believing it's true though: http://www.ndtv.com/video/player/news/major-breakthrough-full-body-transplant/195256 | 18:13 |
| virnovus | claims an Indian lab has done full-body transplants | 18:14 |
| @yashgaroth | no it doesn't | 18:14 |
| virnovus | ? | 18:14 |
| @yashgaroth | /no they haven't | 18:14 |
| @yashgaroth | that's just the obvious truth, let me finish watching it | 18:15 |
| @kanzure | heh | 18:15 |
| virnovus | the thing is, if they ever did do something like that, it'd be in India, where they don't have the ethical objections, and human life is cheap | 18:16 |
| @yashgaroth | haha "then it's simply, they just take your head and place it on the donor's entire body" | 18:16 |
| @kanzure | brownies: oh god i need to rant about this to someone | 18:17 |
| @kanzure | see pm | 18:17 |
| virnovus | i liked the "a man had to go through counseling, because they put his head on a woman's body because it was the only one available" | 18:17 |
| virnovus | it doesn't say if they're quadraplegics though. It would actually be possible if they just didn't attach the spinal cord | 18:19 |
| @kanzure | who are you | 18:19 |
| virnovus | that is, they've successfully done it on animals | 18:19 |
| @kanzure | why are you here | 18:19 |
| virnovus | me? | 18:20 |
| @kanzure | yes | 18:20 |
| virnovus | I've been here before, just not for a few months | 18:20 |
| @yashgaroth | this is so obviously fake that it boggles my mind you posted it | 18:20 |
| @kanzure | can you leave? | 18:20 |
| virnovus | i just thought it was bizarre and kind of funny. what's wrong? | 18:20 |
| virnovus | eh, whatever. | 18:25 |
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| cluckj | lol | 18:26 |
| @kanzure | wtf :( | 18:28 |
| cluckj | don't feel too bad, he was pretty offensive | 18:29 |
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| JerrySperry | hey | 20:45 |
| JerrySperry | wassup | 20:45 |
| @yashgaroth | hello | 20:45 |
| @kanzure | JerrySperry: you should get together with ParahSailin | 20:45 |
| JerrySperry | lol | 20:46 |
| JerrySperry | so whats this IRC for? | 20:46 |
| ParahSailin | heh | 20:46 |
| @kanzure | global world domination | 20:46 |
| JerrySperry | ?? | 20:46 |
| @kanzure | why are you here? | 20:47 |
| JerrySperry | idk | 20:47 |
| @kanzure | did you go to harvard | 20:48 |
| JerrySperry | i attend | 20:48 |
| JerrySperry | how did u know | 20:48 |
| @kanzure | or are you the adjunct prof at brown | 20:48 |
| JerrySperry | dafuq | 20:48 |
| @kanzure | oh you know.. standard creepy stalking skills | 20:48 |
| JerrySperry | ? | 20:48 |
| @kanzure | hey so, you should go to bosslab at davis sq | 20:48 |
| @kanzure | i assume you're into biohacking stuff if you're in here | 20:48 |
| JerrySperry | how did u do this | 20:48 |
| JerrySperry | yeah | 20:48 |
| JerrySperry | please enlighten me as to how u did that | 20:49 |
| ParahSailin | hx | 20:49 |
| @yashgaroth | mad hx | 20:49 |
| JerrySperry | ip lookup i assume | 20:49 |
| @yashgaroth | they teach you that at harvard | 20:49 |
| @kanzure | your irc client shows your name | 20:49 |
| JerrySperry | ? | 20:49 |
| JerrySperry | what do you mean | 20:50 |
| @kanzure | ircname : Steven Petteruti | 20:50 |
| @kanzure | ~stevenpet@ip68-229-65-95.ri.ri.cox.net | 20:50 |
| JerrySperry | lol | 20:50 |
| JerrySperry | how did u get that | 20:50 |
| ParahSailin | illegal hx | 20:50 |
| @kanzure | i think i'll be the one asking questions here, thanks | 20:50 |
| JerrySperry | lol | 20:50 |
| @kanzure | who is your daddy and what does he do? | 20:50 |
| JerrySperry | is this illegal? | 20:51 |
| @kanzure | no we're sanctioned by the FBI WMD directorate | 20:51 |
| @yashgaroth | quick jerry, code a gui to anonymize your ip | 20:51 |
| JerrySperry | ? | 20:51 |
| @kanzure | s/sanctioned/possibly sanctioned | 20:51 |
| @kanzure | gotta be legit about that.. don't want to upset nathan about that | 20:51 |
| @yashgaroth | supported, in a way | 20:51 |
| @kanzure | "involved", if you will | 20:51 |
| @kanzure | hah | 20:51 |
| ParahSailin | whats zebra do? | 20:52 |
| @kanzure | anyway no i'm not illegal | 20:52 |
| @kanzure | are you illegal? | 20:52 |
| JerrySperry | i have no idea what you guys are talking about lol | 20:52 |
| @kanzure | no but really, why are you here. | 20:53 |
| JerrySperry | i just searched biology | 20:53 |
| JerrySperry | b/c i like bo | 20:53 |
| JerrySperry | *bio | 20:53 |
| @kanzure | huh? where did you search this? | 20:53 |
| @yashgaroth | excellent SEO work, kanz | 20:53 |
| JerrySperry | in the channel thing | 20:53 |
| @kanzure | yashgaroth: hah. lucky rabbit foot seo must be working! | 20:54 |
| JerrySperry | can u tell me how to hide my name and stuf | 20:54 |
| @kanzure | why would you do that :( | 20:55 |
| ParahSailin | already know your name | 20:55 |
| @kanzure | hahah | 20:55 |
| @kanzure | yeah it only works if we don't know you already | 20:55 |
| JerrySperry | i used an alias | 20:56 |
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| @yashgaroth | well that was odd | 20:58 |
| @kanzure | man it's surprisingly easy to be a mad hax0r these days.. | 20:59 |
| @kanzure | jrayhawk's "show goatse on a remote screen" trick the other day would seem like pure magic to him, i bet. | 21:00 |
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| @kanzure | "It takes approximately six to nine months to produce an episode of Futurama." | 21:12 |
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| brownies | kanzure: 6 to 9 months for a single episode? | 21:55 |
| brownies | hm, something about that math doesn't quite add up. | 21:55 |
| @kanzure | the wikipedia article says they use some pre-maya software from the 90s | 21:57 |
| nmz787 | so have you seen this kanzure http://www.youtube.com/user/HplusDigitalSeries | 21:57 |
| @kanzure | i've seen it mentioned around.. | 21:58 |
| @kanzure | haven't watched it. it will probably make me angry. | 21:59 |
| @kanzure | is it safe? | 21:59 |
| @yashgaroth | it's a fairly normal 'transhumanism causes the apocalypse' series | 22:01 |
| @kanzure | youtube comments seem to indicate it's luddite bullshit | 22:02 |
| @kanzure | blah. yeah fuck that. | 22:02 |
| @kanzure | man, i think we're probably the most dangerous people in the world | 22:02 |
| @kanzure | on the one hand we have all the antitranshumanist luddite haters hating on us | 22:02 |
| @kanzure | and then we also have the weapons of mass destruction biohacking peeps hating on us | 22:02 |
| @kanzure | is there anyone that likes me | 22:02 |
| delinquentme | <3 | 22:03 |
| delinquentme | occasionally | 22:03 |
| brownies | kanzure: -pre-maya software? don't they just... draw it by hand? | 22:07 |
| delinquentme | BRB! | 22:08 |
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| @kanzure | brownies: not according to wikipedia.. PowerAnimator | 22:08 |
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| nmz787 | brownies: openPCR isn't $12 in parts | 22:24 |
| nmz787 | it is probably 4 to 6 X that | 22:24 |
| brownies | nmz787: ok, so.. buy for $60, put parts in box (without assembling!) and sell for $600? | 22:37 |
| brownies | i certainly don't begrudge them their success with such an audacious model. i'm downright impressed. | 22:38 |
| @kanzure | they might still be doing manual laser cutter runs, but yes that's essentially what they're doing | 22:38 |
| nmz787 | no 60 is still too low | 22:42 |
| nmz787 | the wood plus cutting probably costs about $8, the power supply another 8 or 10 (in bulk), the peltier unit is at least 25 but possibly up to 45 | 22:43 |
| nmz787 | then you have the wires, the microcontroller and board, the peltier driver (H bridge) | 22:43 |
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| nmz787 | plus I think it has an LCD or LED display, another 8 or 12 dollars | 22:43 |
| nmz787 | so maybe 60 | 22:44 |
| nmz787 | maybe 80 | 22:44 |
| nmz787 | the peltier is the big ticket item though | 22:44 |
| @kanzure | you can safely assume they are bad at sourcing the board/controller | 22:44 |
| @kanzure | actually i haven't checked what part they are using for that :( | 22:44 |
| nmz787 | cluckj: why did you say that virnovus guy was offensive? | 22:45 |
| @kanzure | because of how misinformed and wrong he was | 22:45 |
| @kanzure | you can be so wrong that you're offensive | 22:45 |
| nmz787 | nah the board/controller is prob cheap no matter where you get it done | 22:45 |
| @yashgaroth | also I checked, he was that guy who drugged his friends or something | 22:46 |
| @kanzure | what | 22:46 |
| nmz787 | well he didn't state anything more than that video said | 22:46 |
| @yashgaroth | 21:05 < virnovus> and i didn't want them to smoke it all so i spiked it with jwh-018 | 22:46 |
| nmz787 | oh | 22:46 |
| nmz787 | it was posted on April 1 | 22:46 |
| nmz787 | so it must've been an april fools | 22:46 |
| @yashgaroth | oh haha | 22:47 |
| nmz787 | what were they smoking tho? | 22:47 |
| @kanzure | it's obvious for other reasons though | 22:47 |
| @yashgaroth | nmz787 21:04 < virnovus> they came over, looking for weed | 22:47 |
| nmz787 | if it was alread pot, adding jwh wouldn't be drugging his friends more than they would have prob wanted | 22:47 |
| nmz787 | i wouldn't want to unknowingly be spiked with jwh | 22:47 |
| nmz787 | I would be interested in cloning myself | 22:48 |
| nmz787 | I'm not sure its a great idea for anything other than organ harvesting | 22:49 |
| nmz787 | I was pretty pissed at my body during puberty | 22:49 |
| nmz787 | there must be some better genetics out there for some potential future kid of mine | 22:49 |
| @kanzure | see, this is why i support venter-style global grave sampling expeditions | 22:52 |
| @kanzure | i do wonder if there's any utility in building up 'genetic portfolios' in the mean time though.. | 22:53 |
| @yashgaroth | corpspeditions | 22:53 |
| @kanzure | for instance, raise some VC money now and start doing studies on 1000-5000 individuals to do SNP analysis for certain traits | 22:53 |
| @kanzure | some traits are already known, others are probably controlled by a few polymorphisms, and others are definitely not (like limbs) | 22:53 |
| nmz787 | heh | 22:54 |
| @kanzure | i hear that patri friedman did some genetic work on his son before they found a surrogate mother | 22:54 |
| nmz787 | so i didn't find much on animal dwarfism genetics | 22:54 |
| @kanzure | but he might have just been talking it up | 22:54 |
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| nmz787 | i remember in a first year bio class, there was a case study on some peruvian/andean people who would have basically died out (or moved from the hills to a city slum) if child labor were outlawed, purely because the children were energetically more efficient at farm work than their larger elders | 22:55 |
| nmz787 | mini-nmz787.... | 22:56 |
| @yashgaroth | plenty of money to be made there if you can make perma-kittens and such | 22:57 |
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| @kanzure | yashgaroth: i'm pretty sure you could just secretly replace their kittens and get the same effect | 22:59 |
| nmz787 | yashgaroth: only if they glow too i fear | 22:59 |
| @yashgaroth | once a month, we throw some chloroform into your bedroom, and a new permakitten(tm) will be placed in your home | 23:00 |
| @yashgaroth | glowing is of course standard | 23:00 |
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| @kanzure | genetic portfolio entry: none of those retarded hereditary diseases | 23:02 |
| @kanzure | insurance companies would eat that up | 23:02 |
| @yashgaroth | so uh isn't that similar to what 23andme does, where they sequence a million SNPs and then ask you short questions about your traits? | 23:03 |
| @yashgaroth | not that they really know anything about the volunteers except their name and how they answer questions, which isn't super scientific | 23:06 |
| nmz787 | farmer-oriented dating site... farmersonly.com | 23:07 |
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| @yashgaroth | likes: combine harvesters, dislikes: rinderpest | 23:09 |
| cpopell_ | okay, feel much better | 23:15 |
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| Mokbortolan_ | jrayhawk: Missed the meeting today :( | 23:57 |
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| Mokbortolan_ | did you go? | 23:57 |
| --- Log closed Sun Sep 23 00:00:34 2012 | ||
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