| --- Log opened Sun Oct 07 00:00:48 2012 | ||
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| Jenda` | http://matt.might.net/articles/my-sons-killer/ on a very rare stop-mutation in N-Glycanase gene | 02:06 |
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| BioGuy | anyone around tonight? | 03:42 |
| foucist | sup | 03:44 |
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| exiff | Hello. | 03:47 |
| BioGuy | What are all you up to? | 03:47 |
| foucist | here's a transhumanist bodymod: http://i.imgur.com/jtHAa.jpg | 03:48 |
| exiff | I just wanted to ask. Given the choice between having children the normal way and raising your own clone, which would you choose? | 03:49 |
| BioGuy | ROFL @ foucist | 03:50 |
| BioGuy | i definitely wouldn't want to raise my clone | 03:50 |
| exiff | Why not? It/you get to inherit everything you've worked for in life. | 03:51 |
| BioGuy | What do yo mean? | 03:54 |
| exiff | When you... | 03:56 |
| exiff | If you die, you're gonna leave an estate behind.. | 03:56 |
| exiff | Someone has to inherit it. | 03:56 |
| foucist | easier to live through your own clone vicariously | 03:57 |
| exiff | You could have your own dynasty. | 03:57 |
| foucist | exiff: its' a slippery slope though, you don't want to end up with a stupid ass clone society | 03:58 |
| BioGuy | what would be the difference if you left things to your clone or a natural child? Its not as if your clone would be you. | 03:59 |
| exiff | Slippery is an understatement, it's a greased up slope with an 89 degree incline. | 04:00 |
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| exiff | That's why i ask which you would prefer. | 04:00 |
| strangewarp | you can avoid this issue entirely by simply living forever. | 04:00 |
| strangewarp | or by being less panicky about the future utility of hoarded capital. | 04:01 |
| ThomasEgi | foucist, i'd prefer a "not to do" list but the idea behind the pic is fun^ | 04:01 |
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| BioGuy | What would be the benefit of raising/heiring things to a clone rather than a natural born child? | 04:02 |
| exiff | strangewarp, having a clone is advantageous because you can genetically engineer any bad genes away. | 04:02 |
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| BioGuy | exiff you could do the same in a non-clone dont you think? | 04:03 |
| strangewarp | exiff: why are we focusing on expending resources to create a better iteration of one's self, instead of simply expending resources to improve one's self? | 04:03 |
| exiff | Sure you could. | 04:03 |
| exiff | Because most people want to have children. | 04:03 |
| exiff | Nature does that exactly that with sexual reproduction, mixing genes in the hopes that a better version is born. | 04:04 |
| exiff | We can now do that directly. Negating the need for sex. | 04:05 |
| strangewarp | If we're resorting to the naturalism of revering the instinct to have children, then that naturalism must be unmodified, or else it is ideologically arbitrary | 04:07 |
| BioGuy | negating the need for sex? Sounds like striving to make life more mundane. Honestly I don't trust my genes - I wouldn't want to have a clone nor my own child. Thats just me though | 04:07 |
| foucist | exiff: frankly though if your'e gonna have a clone, might as well stick your brain in the clone after it hits 15 years old or whatever | 04:07 |
| foucist | keep it a brainless clone until it's old enough | 04:07 |
| strangewarp | So creatin an offspring-clone isn't wrong, I'd say; just there's nothing objectively advantageous or honorable about the process in particular | 04:09 |
| strangewarp | creating* | 04:10 |
| exiff | strangewarp, what you're saying makes me think of what would happen if we removed that instinct to reproduce,and by extension,remove all other instincts. I wonder what is left could be called human. | 04:10 |
| strangewarp | exiff: what is a human? A miserable pile of self-reflective ontology! | 04:11 |
| strangewarp | I think you are coming up with stacked-deck situations to create philosophical drama, honestly | 04:11 |
| exiff | BioGuy, the purpose of sex is to reproduce, that's why it feels so good. I can't think of any other reason that it needs to feel as good as it does. | 04:11 |
| BioGuy | Honestly for as much as we would like to think that as humans we arent driven by instinct it seems to me that we are completely driven by instinct. We have self awareness though and would rather believe our instincts are choices. If we completely removed all instinct I think we would quite literally do nothing. We would have no drive for anything. | 04:13 |
| exiff | That isnt my intention strangewarp, the reality of 'designer children' is going to manifest. Such questions are going to come up whether they are philosophically dramatic or not. | 04:13 |
| foucist | instinct ftw | 04:14 |
| BioGuy | As for sex it feels good but also creates deep connections with another individual. It goes much beyond simply procreation. If we could genetically delete the need and desire for sex I'm not sure why we would want to. | 04:14 |
| foucist | i think we should accept a definition of 'human' as a collection of all the instincts and bullshit and whatever that we're made of | 04:14 |
| foucist | so if you start editing out instincts you end up with something that's not called human anymore.. and that should be fine | 04:15 |
| foucist | don't even call it neo-human or anything -human | 04:15 |
| exiff | No, it actually doesnt go beyond reproduction, BioGuy. It creates those connections because it is advantageous for a child to be raised by two parents. | 04:15 |
| foucist | avoid the whole issue of terminology completely! | 04:15 |
| ThomasEgi | exiff, "desiner children" may only be designable up to the point where you get hair,eyes, whatever right. you won't be able to design a genious. if you put that child in front of a tv instead of rising it properly it'll be just as stupid as the rest of todays society. it might look good, but still dump. | 04:16 |
| exiff | Also, if we are looking for pleasure, i'm sure we can engineer even more pleasurable things than sex. | 04:16 |
| BioGuy | Have you never had sex with someone and created a bond with that person but used condoms or other forms of birth control? | 04:17 |
| foucist | what kind of fucking idiot would put their kid infront of a tv? | 04:17 |
| ThomasEgi | foucist, most people do because most people are idiots. | 04:17 |
| ThomasEgi | i have plenty of relative who raise their kids buy putting them in front of the tv at early age, the playstation usualy joins in at the age of 3 | 04:18 |
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| exiff | ThomasEgi, of course. But by designer i meant in a broader sense, like complementing genetic cognitive enhancement wit the right kind of education after the child is born... or better yet, create an instinct whereby seeking knowledge and learning feels as good as sex. | 04:19 |
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| ThomasEgi | learning is a very generic process.. doubt you can make it feel good to learn useful stuff. | 04:20 |
| ThomasEgi | genetic is only factor of development. the influences from the world onto the person, especially the brain weight a lot more (unless you have some serious gene-defects) | 04:21 |
| exiff | That remains to be seen. | 04:21 |
| BioGuy | I just think sexual relationships go much farther beyond simple 2 dimensional pleasure. Sure it can be used for that. But, with the right person, or the right relationship before having sex it can foster something much more powerful that pleasure. Maybe on a purely evolutionary basis it makes sense for those connecions to purely support the child. But we have instincts on top of instinctns on top of | 04:21 |
| BioGuy | drives and motivations that I think looking at sex as being merely reporductive is underrating it a bit | 04:21 |
| exiff | What other purpose does it serve then BioGuy? | 04:22 |
| BioGuy | foucist I think the fucking idiot that puts their kid in front of a tv would probably be the average human | 04:23 |
| foucist | i was trolling guys | 04:23 |
| foucist | i mean that was a troll statement | 04:23 |
| BioGuy | not all...but defenitely a good proportion | 04:23 |
| BioGuy | ahh | 04:23 |
| BioGuy | I should have known | 04:23 |
| foucist | people in here are terrible at trolling | 04:23 |
| exiff | I leanrt english from tv. So it's actually the right type of tv you need to put your child in front of. | 04:23 |
| foucist | except for kanzure | 04:23 |
| foucist | ThomasEgi: i think you're being too pessimistic/realistic about it when exiff is just idealizing/brainstorming/envisioning/daydreaming | 04:24 |
| foucist | i.e. no point in bringing up issues about learning being a generic process and what not | 04:25 |
| ThomasEgi | just wanted to point out that those issues have to be addressed in such a case. | 04:25 |
| exiff | They can and most likely will be addressed... so bearing that in mind, let's cd .. up back to designer clones. | 04:26 |
| exiff | And just what value sex will have when genetic engineering can produce superior offspring. | 04:27 |
| exiff | Or rather, not leave it to chance. | 04:27 |
| BioGuy | I dont doubt you can make it feel good to learn things. I wouldn't find it unusual if those that tend to be more curious or those that tend to pursue knowledge and understanding over others that dont might have some kind of increased dopamine (or other pleasure related response) release when they learn | 04:28 |
| exiff | Chance and instinct. Because we seem to be attracted to things that seem genetically superior | 04:28 |
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| BioGuy | I don't know...in my opinion rather than forcing specific genes upon an unborn child (i.e. designer children) I think it might be more productive to allow people to decide what kind of gene therapies they might want once they are of age. Allow them to make a choice of what they want to give up and gain. | 04:29 |
| exiff | Yes BioGuy, we just need to find those genes then. | 04:29 |
| BioGuy | Thought I also think there is enough evidence to show that a person is much more than just their genes - but rather they are a product of their genes interaction with their environment over many years | 04:31 |
| exiff | The thing is, ideology is something that is taught. It's our environment that influences what ideals we pursue. Meaning we can raise our children to want to have those enhancements. | 04:32 |
| exiff | What choices do you think future generations are going to make? | 04:33 |
| BioGuy | Thats an interesting question. If I could engineer myself to anything I wanted through gene therapies then I would defintely increase my memory, cognitive, and social abilites. Though I wouldn't engineer away my ability to feel sadness, pain, remorse, regret. | 04:36 |
| exiff | Why wouldn't you? | 04:37 |
| BioGuy | On the other hand I also wonder just how capable we are as humans to make decisions about our own genetic destiny. Do we have the foresight to see all the ramifications? What if by allowing us to engineer ourselves however we see fit it was analogous to letting a child have whatever he/she wanted. | 04:37 |
| exiff | Are you afraid to lose your humanity? :P | 04:38 |
| foucist | your genes suck if you're not afraid | 04:38 |
| foucist | selfish genes bro, that's all you are driven by | 04:38 |
| ThomasEgi | not a gene thing tho. | 04:38 |
| BioGuy | Not necessarily humanity but I feel there is value and personal growth we experience by unpleasant things. Granted I would personally engineer away more serous forms of depression and mental states that hinder a person from growing and developing. | 04:40 |
| exiff | Selfish genes are useless when there isn't competition... | 04:40 |
| ThomasEgi | once more i'd say this is less a gene thing and more of a "how you got raised" problem | 04:41 |
| exiff | In which context is that growth though BioGuy? | 04:41 |
| BioGuy | What do you mean? | 04:42 |
| exiff | Im trying to find out exactly what Personal growth is. | 04:42 |
| exiff | And if it can't just be leant by intelligent anticipation. | 04:43 |
| BioGuy | Oh ok...well I think thats a HUGE philosopic question. But for the moment lets just boil it down to adaptation. If I only ever felt pleasant or happy then I would have no drive to change. There would be no migration of will... | 04:45 |
| BioGuy | without sadness or concern I don't suppose I would consider other paths. Whatever decision I made I would be content with. I would be exposed to less... | 04:47 |
| strangewarp | I'd like to note for posterity that, even for people who are supposedly child-prodigies on paper, and who are raised with innovative education techniques, the result can still end up pretty awful, since the person has agency of their own; and if they dislike their environment they will subvert opportunities out of spite or anxiety. | 04:48 |
| exiff | The only thing that might migrate will is the pursuit of knowledge. But that adaptation you mentioned is directly linked to one's environment... and human environment is entirely artificial. | 04:48 |
| BioGuy | I want regret because we tend to feel regret when we have made a mistake and we can change the path we take to avoid such regret again. By never feeling regret I think we would hinder our ability to learn and adapt. | 04:49 |
| exiff | So we just have to improve the environment the child lives and grows in strangewarp. | 04:49 |
| strangewarp | This is my first day off nootropics in a half-year and I can't decide whether this conversation is sloppy or whether I've just become a fool.. | 04:50 |
| BioGuy | I'm not sure what to make of this conversation either...but I do kind of enjoy it | 04:50 |
| exiff | Regret is just another instinctive thing... it's a means to tell us we went wrong somewhere, it is entirely useless if we make no wrong decisions. | 04:51 |
| strangewarp | What about people who want to choose to have the sort of emotions that don't result in a perfect child of the imperium, eh | 04:52 |
| BioGuy | exiff I think you have defined the purpose of life is purely the pursuit of knowledge. Though many would disagree. | 04:53 |
| exiff | Those people eh? Well, strangewarp, choice will always be there. At the very least they will know why bad things happen. If you're driving towards a cliff, you can always choose to stop, or carry on because 'you want to feel regret' | 04:54 |
| BioGuy | How would you feel regret if you engineered it away? | 04:55 |
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| exiff | BioGuy, i can't find any other purpose. I'm willing to listen to any other suggestions. | 04:56 |
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| BioGuy | How could we ever be at a state where we would would make no wrong decisions? We would have to know everything there is to know even if that is infinite | 04:56 |
| BioGuy | Ok time for sleep...theres one thing I would get rid of if I could. Night all | 04:59 |
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| exiff | Sorry, i got disconnected. | 05:04 |
| BioGuy | exiff I have to hit the sack, thought I think it would be intersting to pick up this conversation later | 05:06 |
| exiff | Any new insights while i was away? | 05:06 |
| exiff | Alright, good night. | 05:06 |
| exiff | I'm curious strangewarp, what no0tropics do you take? | 05:16 |
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| curt1s | good morning | 06:27 |
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| strangewarp | oh | 06:33 |
| strangewarp | I take noopept and Cognizin | 06:33 |
| strangewarp | Going off them for a day is an immense, marked difference | 06:34 |
| strangewarp | I think it's the noopept that does the heavy lifting; all Cognizin seems to do is make me "snappy", if that makes sense as a descriptor | 06:43 |
| strangewarp | They are /definitely/ acting as antidepressants for me, judging by how I feel today | 06:46 |
| skorket | morning all | 06:49 |
| skorket | strangewarp, where did you purchase them? | 06:49 |
| strangewarp | Noopept: Brainpower Nutriceuticals | 06:50 |
| strangewarp | Cognizin: Amazon (supplier: Healthy Origins) | 06:50 |
| skorket | how much of each do you take a day? | 06:51 |
| skorket | and are you taking anything else? | 06:51 |
| strangewarp | every 24 to 26 hours: 30mg noopept (padded with 615mg choline citrate), 250mg Cognizin, and 600mg Alpha-GPC (which is probably extraneous considering the noopept's choline citrate padding) | 06:52 |
| strangewarp | with noopept, you don't want to go over 30mg per 24 hours. At the 60mg point, you risk damaging your liver. | 06:53 |
| strangewarp | the Cognizin dose should probably be doubled, and I may do that, hm | 06:54 |
| skorket | why did you choose those numbers? | 06:54 |
| strangewarp | 250mg Cognizin is what's in Nawgan energy drinks, which have been excellent to me whenever I've tried them. 600mg Alpha-GPC is a bit much, but those were the ones I could get the best deal on at the time. 30mg noopept is a high dosage, but seems safe as an upper bound, and it's how Brainpower Nutriceuticals packages their gelcaps. | 06:57 |
| strangewarp | Alpha-GPC is basically another form of choline, to aid absorption of nootropics. It may be superior to choline citrate and choline-CDP; the Nawgan people seen to think so, anyway. | 06:59 |
| strangewarp | seem* | 06:59 |
| skorket | interesting, thank you | 07:00 |
| * strangewarp nods | 07:00 | |
| strangewarp | bah, okay, I want to get work done and I'm not used to having the wretched emotionally disturbed personality I had before I tried out nootropics. | 07:02 |
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| strangewarp | I'll just bump ahead my pill schedule by the amount of time I've been awake. | 07:03 |
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| curt1s | ive been attacked by a crazy mosquito | 07:21 |
| curt1s | awful | 07:21 |
| curt1s | bit me all over my face and arm | 07:21 |
| curt1s | unless anyone has new/experimental methods for dealing with this i guess i will be taking an antihistamine | 07:22 |
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| Urchin | that's probably a good idea | 07:59 |
| curt1s | yeah | 08:00 |
| curt1s | cetirizine helped a lot | 08:00 |
| curt1s | and doesnt have the somnolent side effects of diphenhydramine | 08:01 |
| Urchin | wht sort of a moxquito | 08:01 |
| Urchin | we have a tiger mosquito infestation here | 08:01 |
| curt1s | it was a very small one | 08:01 |
| curt1s | and only one, as far as i could tell. it bit me repeatedly on the face, neck and forearm | 08:02 |
| curt1s | im in manhattan and this keeps happening | 08:03 |
| curt1s | they even sprayed my neighborhood about a month ago | 08:03 |
| curt1s | ridiculous | 08:03 |
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| Urchin | tiger mosquitos are rather large, and leave a huge dose of alergens and cause large inflamations | 08:04 |
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| curt1s | yeah this was a little one | 08:05 |
| curt1s | but im also very sensitive to the bites in general | 08:05 |
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| curt1s | they always swell up to alarming size | 08:05 |
| curt1s | now theres a particularly stupid looking one on my forehead | 08:06 |
| curt1s | fortunately the antihistamine reduced the swelling by a lot | 08:06 |
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| brownies | what is Cognizin, exactly? | 08:12 |
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| kanzure | i nominate exiff to be banned | 09:30 |
| gnusha | diyhpluswiki.git: 4b02731 add biohackers-nyc group | 09:38 |
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| kanzure | http://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/6157/list-of-freely-available-physics-books | 09:52 |
| kanzure | whaat "Springerlink's LaTeXsearch you can search articles by using latex formulas input" | 09:53 |
| kanzure | i'm surprised anyone bothered to make that. neat. | 09:53 |
| kanzure | http://www.latexsearch.com/ | 09:53 |
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| kanzure | nmz787: hi | 09:54 |
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| nmz787 | hi | 10:05 |
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| strangewarp | brownies: Cognizin is citicoline: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citicoline | 10:06 |
| kanzure | yashgaroth: oh sorry, didn't notice your question. asp is a microsoft product for building web pages. | 10:07 |
| kanzure | "upgrade of the space shuttle cockpit" http://human-factors.arc.nasa.gov/ihi/research_groups/isis/McCandless/shuttle.html | 10:10 |
| brownies | strangewarp: hm, i see. | 10:12 |
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| nmz787 | http://www.indiegogo.com/hackert0wn | 10:27 |
| nmz787 | cool idea | 10:28 |
| kanzure | why do laptop hinges suck so greatly? | 10:36 |
| nmz787 | they're not designed for people to pick up their laptops by the screen | 10:42 |
| kanzure | i'm not sure i've ever done that | 10:43 |
| curt1s | how ever you might feel about microsoft...i actually think their new tablet design is pretty cool | 10:50 |
| curt1s | mainly the keyboard/cover thing | 10:50 |
| curt1s | install some tablet linux distro on there and it will be good to go :) | 10:52 |
| ParahSailin | i dont buy conflict electronics | 10:52 |
| curt1s | oh really | 10:53 |
| curt1s | so where do you get your conflict-free stuff | 10:53 |
| ParahSailin | 中国 | 10:54 |
| curt1s | hm | 10:54 |
| curt1s | google is telling me those funny characters mean "china" | 10:54 |
| curt1s | the land of foxconn itself | 10:55 |
| curt1s | lol microsoft owns surface.com | 10:55 |
| curt1s | for their new tablet | 10:56 |
| ParahSailin | i dont buy anything from the IP cartel | 10:56 |
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| Sanky | Has anybody tried mapping individual letters to tones yet, and tried to learn to understand words as resulting melodies? | 10:58 |
| chris_99 | sounds like FM | 11:02 |
| kanzure | yes, i did that for the bible once | 11:02 |
| kanzure | it was pretty awful | 11:02 |
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| Sanky | hrm! | 11:04 |
| kanzure | but i just converted it to tones on my sound card and played beeps | 11:05 |
| kanzure | it wasn't really about melodies | 11:05 |
| ParahSailin | learn chinese or yoruba | 11:06 |
| ParahSailin | tonal languages | 11:06 |
| Sanky | I was trying to imagine it, but I do think it wouldn't be terribly exciting. | 11:07 |
| kanzure | "We have added over two hundred Allen Atlas brain regions to the latest version of the Whole Brain Catalog." | 11:22 |
| kanzure | hmm http://blog-dev.wholebraincatalog.org/?p=49 | 11:22 |
| kanzure | oh i didn't know the openworm mailing list was active, dayum | 11:24 |
| kanzure | http://groups.google.com/group/openworm | 11:24 |
| kanzure | whole brain catalog download: svn co http://wholebrain.googlecode.com/svn/wbc/trunk wbc | 11:25 |
| kanzure | http://code.google.com/p/wholebrain/ | 11:25 |
| kanzure | hrm it's still being updated? | 11:26 |
| kanzure | http://data.wholebraincatalog.org/tangibles/cellinstances/375jo | 11:27 |
| kanzure | oh i see. https://github.com/openworm | 11:30 |
| kanzure | yashgaorth: he's in san diego, can you go stalk him down? slars0n <stelar@alum.mit.edu> | 11:31 |
| kanzure | https://github.com/SynBioDex | 11:36 |
| nmz787 | so it seems no one wants to actually set up a digital DNA parts repo, so we should actually do it | 11:38 |
| nmz787 | I have no interest in being part of some distributed physical DNA share thing, right now at least | 11:39 |
| nmz787 | but I can see the existing digital parts/DNA registries being closed in the future | 11:39 |
| kanzure | nmz787: what do you mean by digital DNA parts repo, exactly? | 11:43 |
| kanzure | and how does ncbi's stuff not count? | 11:43 |
| kanzure | "OpenWorm Simulation Engine using Websockets to stream simulation of 302 HH neurons running on the GPU to multiple clients" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WavxNrHdWAU | 11:47 |
| nmz787 | yeah but mirroring stuff from NCBI | 11:54 |
| nmz787 | and igem parts reg | 11:54 |
| nmz787 | or what if there is another censorship issue with DNA sequences being published | 11:55 |
| nmz787 | and stuff that's there now goes away | 11:55 |
| kanzure | tbh i hate the current biobricks repository | 11:55 |
| kanzure | it's like half wiki, half terribly-written perl | 11:55 |
| nmz787 | what was the thing you said was like lighter djangon | 11:56 |
| nmz787 | django | 11:56 |
| nmz787 | * | 11:56 |
| kanzure | flask? | 11:56 |
| nmz787 | and the db? | 11:56 |
| kanzure | i'm not sure a web framework is necessary for a parts repository. what about just a folder of the things? | 11:56 |
| nmz787 | sqlite? | 11:57 |
| kanzure | well, when i use flask i use sqlalchemy as an orm layer to interact with databases | 11:57 |
| kanzure | i only use sqlite for very tiny one-off projects | 11:57 |
| nmz787 | how come? | 11:57 |
| kanzure | sqlite has a number of important flaws | 11:57 |
| kanzure | for instance, it doesn't support column alterations like renames | 11:57 |
| kanzure | scaling sqlite to thousands of simultaneous connections is really difficult or impossible | 11:57 |
| kanzure | i highly recommend postgresql for anything in production or that is expected to be used by more than one thing at a time :p | 11:57 |
| nmz787 | searchable git? | 11:58 |
| bkero | kanzure: postgres is unnecessary complication, what he really needs to be using is sqlite. | 11:58 |
| kanzure | before deciding on a solution i think the problem has to be understood. | 11:58 |
| nmz787 | with each revision just displaying in the same 'part' page, with each data field being editable | 11:58 |
| kanzure | bkero: it depends on what problem he is solving | 11:58 |
| kanzure | nmz787: i have never seen a biobrick "updated". so i'm not sure that each biobrick needs to be under version control or not. | 11:59 |
| nmz787 | i think so | 11:59 |
| nmz787 | because i take a natural sequence, then codon optimize | 11:59 |
| nmz787 | that's a diff | 11:59 |
| kanzure | where the hell is juul? he works with thousands of biobricks in an automated manner. | 11:59 |
| nmz787 | not a new part | 11:59 |
| nmz787 | sure the function could be new, or unbroken, or even broken for older 'systems' | 12:00 |
| nmz787 | hmm | 12:00 |
| kanzure | have you seen this? | 12:01 |
| kanzure | http://partsregistry.org/das/parts/features/?segment=BBa_R0050:0,500000 | 12:01 |
| kanzure | http://partsregistry.org/DAS_-_Distributed_Annotation_System | 12:01 |
| nmz787 | the first link seems useless | 12:01 |
| kanzure | list of all parts: http://partsregistry.org/das/parts/entry_points | 12:02 |
| kanzure | e.g. to get the sequence http://partsregistry.org/das/parts/dna/?segment=BBa_S01532 | 12:02 |
| kanzure | i'm not really sure why they picked xml | 12:03 |
| kanzure | i think "things just happened" and now they have this "DASDNA" thing. | 12:03 |
| nmz787 | so /dna and /features | 12:04 |
| nmz787 | what else? | 12:04 |
| kanzure | it's listed on that DAS page | 12:04 |
| nmz787 | where is the description | 12:04 |
| kanzure | looks like the description is only provided through the wiki | 12:05 |
| kanzure | http://partsregistry.org/Part:BBa_S01532 | 12:05 |
| kanzure | here's a better example: | 12:06 |
| kanzure | http://partsregistry.org/wiki/index.php?title=Part:BBa_K206000 | 12:06 |
| kanzure | http://partsregistry.org/Part:BBa_K206000:Experience | 12:08 |
| kanzure | nmz787: i think if a mirror/repo was to be established, the format would have to be changed to something more sane. obviously this data is not in a parsable format. it's all over the place. | 12:12 |
| kanzure | the xml stuff is usable, but the citations are super important and not listed in the file output. | 12:12 |
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| nmz787 | by citations you mean references? | 12:37 |
| nmz787 | i.e. [1] Schlief, R. (2000). Regulation of the L-arabinose operon of Escherichia coli. Trends in Genetics. 16(12):559-565. | 12:37 |
| nmz787 | [2] Khlebnikov A, Datsenko KA, Skaug T, Wanner BL, and Keasling JD. (2001). Homogeneous expression of the PBAD promoter in Escherichia coli by constitutive expression of the low-affinity high-capacity AraE transporter. Microbiology. 147(12):3241-7. | 12:37 |
| kanzure | sorry, yes i mean references | 12:37 |
| nmz787 | same same | 12:38 |
| nmz787 | well i dont know if part should have revisions, I guess there could be a sparse backlink if someone wanted to do that | 12:38 |
| nmz787 | forwardlinks would be 'one to many' | 12:40 |
| nmz787 | I think that aspect would be important for documenting directed evolution | 12:40 |
| kanzure | http://thepiratebay.se/torrent/7664270/Nature_Magazine_Ultimate_Collection_-_1869___2010_(Malestrom) | 12:49 |
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| streety | I think I need a larger hard drive | 13:05 |
| kanzure | igem software projects https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkuvTGMlkqD1dGJoU2pGNmQwLTUyRmtwVmlrOEwxMWc#gid=2 | 13:08 |
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| kanzure | https://github.com/mrginglymus/Gibthon | 13:09 |
| kanzure | "Gibthon Construct Designer - an interactive design tool for primers for use in the Gibson Assembly method" | 13:09 |
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| alusion | What do you all recommend to stack with Piracetam? | 13:17 |
| kanzure | oh look another terrible forum http://www.freehardwaremovement.com/phpbb/ | 13:20 |
| streety | I'm not sure it's smart to use a generic domain like freehardwaremovement as your personal homepage | 13:21 |
| ParahSailin | stack methadone with piracetam | 13:23 |
| alusion | Lol. | 13:27 |
| alusion | kanzure, what are your thoughts on Brainmeta? | 13:27 |
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| alusion | o_o anyone got info? | 14:49 |
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| kanzure | michal got his site back up.. http://faculty.washington.edu/mgaldzic/igem/igemsoft/ | 15:19 |
| kanzure | "A cheap alternative to Commercial Liquid Handling Systems. The robot was built using Lego bricks, and is designed to be modular in design, allowing for user-designed parts and added functionality. Source code for the drivers that operate the BioBrick-A-Bot." | 15:19 |
| kanzure | http://2009.igem.org/Team:Washington-Software/Downloads | 15:19 |
| kanzure | wtf? the gerontology research group sends out its monthly email digests through faxes to some of the subscribed professors, because they prefer that over email. | 15:21 |
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| kanzure | http://jalopnik.com/5949166/how-to-steal-the-space-shuttle-a-step+by+step-guide | 15:24 |
| kanzure | yashgaroth: Justin Rebo <justin@openbiotech.com> | 15:29 |
| kanzure | yashgaroth: John Schloendorn <john@openbiotech.com> | 15:29 |
| kanzure | this seems to be the same justin that went to singularity summit once, Justin Rebo <illuminatus@yahoo.com> | 15:30 |
| ParahSailin | whats schloendorn up to now? | 15:32 |
| kanzure | openbiotech.com apparently | 15:32 |
| ParahSailin | how did he blow thiel money that fast? | 15:33 |
| kanzure | immunepath? | 15:33 |
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| yashgaroth | I suppose if it's schloendorn's thing it's probably legit...can we deploy agent juul to the open science summit to ask him about it? | 15:47 |
| kanzure | why not just ask john directly? didn't he used to come in here? | 15:48 |
| yashgaroth | oh yeah I guess that works too | 15:48 |
| kanzure | and besides juul we have others in sf like brownies, roksprok, jmil will prolly be there, jojack, all of the biocurious folks, etc. | 15:50 |
| yashgaroth | I just wanted to say 'deploy agent juul' tbh | 15:51 |
| kanzure | you don't need a reason for that :) | 15:53 |
| streety | kanzure, I love the idea of smuggling a Shuttle out of the US to a landlocked country by submarine | 16:03 |
| kanzure | you know, just launching the rocket seems simpler | 16:03 |
| streety | it really does | 16:05 |
| kanzure | in fact, you can alter its return trajectory and just have some military vessels waiting there. | 16:06 |
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| brownies | kanzure: that's hilarious | 17:11 |
| brownies | oh, you mentioned it in the other chan. but it's still hilarious. | 17:11 |
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| nmz787 | amryis http://www.fastcompany.com/3000040/rise-and-fall-company-was-going-have-us-all-using-biofuels | 18:04 |
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| curt1s | forgive me for asking (im new) but what is super college (re topic) | 18:34 |
| kanzure | grad school | 18:35 |
| streety | I hadn't noticed that | 18:38 |
| nmz787 | http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16672214 | 18:44 |
| nmz787 | Lactagogue effects of Torbangun, a Bataknese traditional cuisine. | 18:44 |
| nmz787 | AbstractColeus amboinicus Lour (CA) has been used as a breast milk stimulant (a lactagogue) by Bataknese people in Indonesia for hundreds of years. However, the traditional use of CA is not well documented, and scientific evidence is limited to establish CA as a lactagogue. This investigation was conducted to elucidate the effect of traditional use of CA during the first month of lactation on quantity and quality of the breast milk. Th | 18:44 |
| ParahSailin | so can i use it to get milk out of my (male) boobs/ | 18:47 |
| streety | 65% seems like a lot, I wonder whether it's needed | 18:49 |
| curt1s | kanzure: is grad school bad? | 18:53 |
| nmz787 | curt1s: now necessarily | 18:54 |
| kanzure | curt1s: grad school is one of the most evil things | 18:54 |
| nmz787 | not* | 18:54 |
| nmz787 | depends if you're using the system or its using you | 18:55 |
| curt1s | ah ok | 18:55 |
| curt1s | well i have heard things like 'you should never pay for grad school' | 18:55 |
| curt1s | but if a school wants to pay you to do it then its ok maybe | 18:55 |
| yashgaroth | "pay" | 18:56 |
| curt1s | personally i havent finished regular college :\ | 18:56 |
| ParahSailin | major is what | 18:56 |
| kanzure | ##hplusroadmap is not a college friendly environment | 18:56 |
| curt1s | haha | 18:56 |
| curt1s | thats cool i guess | 18:57 |
| curt1s | i havent been particularly college friendly until recently | 18:57 |
| curt1s | but i didnt really do anything first time around | 18:57 |
| curt1s | (theater major lol) | 18:57 |
| yashgaroth | so what brought you to genspace | 18:58 |
| yashgaroth | or was theater your previous major | 18:58 |
| curt1s | soo ive actually been thinking pretty seriously about going back for cs | 18:58 |
| kanzure | don't do it | 18:58 |
| ParahSailin | til you need to take classes to learn computers | 18:58 |
| curt1s | lol i know | 18:58 |
| curt1s | but thats kind of what i wanted to ask you guys | 18:59 |
| curt1s | what would you recommend | 18:59 |
| yashgaroth | learn to program off the internet and make mad dollaz in SF | 18:59 |
| curt1s | i mean what do you think is worthwhile in terms of school | 18:59 |
| gnusha | diyhpluswiki.git: 621b2b9 grindhouse wetware interview | 19:00 |
| curt1s | heh thanks yashgaroth but thats not exactly what i want | 19:00 |
| ParahSailin | start doing your own projects | 19:00 |
| yashgaroth | do what you like, as long as it's not art you'll be fine | 19:00 |
| ParahSailin | and eat food and pay rent if you're unemployed-- cheaper than school | 19:00 |
| kanzure | school is worthwhile for things where you absolutely need certification (like hvac or physicians) | 19:00 |
| curt1s | im semi employed atm | 19:01 |
| kanzure | save your money and skip school | 19:01 |
| nmz787 | school is good when you can't get that knowledge/experience offline or cheaper at a community college | 19:02 |
| streety | 'grad school' worked out well for me but it wasn't in the US and I suspect it's very different between countries | 19:02 |
| kanzure | curt1s: new plan.. instead of paying $50k for college, how about you pay me $40k and i'll teach you compooting | 19:02 |
| curt1s | haha | 19:02 |
| curt1s | nah i definitely wouldnt pay 50k | 19:02 |
| yashgaroth | and give me the other 10k | 19:02 |
| curt1s | if anything id go to hunter, its cheap to begin with (im nyc resident) and ill probably get financial aid | 19:03 |
| kanzure | in my experience, schools are really awful at teaching programming or even just computer science | 19:03 |
| kanzure | until you get to your umpteenth year, but everyone keeps handwaving and says wait until your n+1 year | 19:04 |
| ParahSailin | if you're semi-employed, you're not in that much of a hurry to get a computer job | 19:04 |
| curt1s | yeah kanzure cs might be a bad choice. im also thinking about other sciences | 19:04 |
| streety | how common is it here to be paid for post-grad education? | 19:05 |
| curt1s | also this http://www.hunter.cuny.edu/qubi | 19:05 |
| ParahSailin | if you're a phd student, you're getting paid | 19:05 |
| yashgaroth | very common in the sciences | 19:05 |
| streety | that was my experience | 19:05 |
| curt1s | kanzure: i know i dont want to just be a programmer and i also know school isnt the best place to learn programming | 19:14 |
| curt1s | as i mentioned i studied art (theater) first time around, and ive been working in film/tv the past few years | 19:15 |
| curt1s | and it pretty much sucks | 19:17 |
| curt1s | been thinking of going for cs degree because i know i like it and have some aptitude for it but im interested in lots of science too | 19:19 |
| curt1s | not really sure how to proceed | 19:19 |
| kanzure | i don't understand. what is your goal precisely? | 19:19 |
| curt1s | thats been a tough question. like i said, i am pretty sick of working crappy film/tv production jobs. short term, im trying to narrow my focus a little, figure out what i might like to pursue, and ultimately work on something worthwhile and engaging and fulfilling | 19:25 |
| kanzure | ok but what does that mean? | 19:26 |
| kanzure | what the hell is fulfilling? i suggest you eat | 19:26 |
| curt1s | heh | 19:26 |
| curt1s | i know thats really broad | 19:26 |
| curt1s | i hear you on the anti-school thing, ive only just come around myself. this is what im trying to get across; school as a means to figuring this out | 19:28 |
| alusion | Hello | 19:29 |
| curt1s | im 27. ive been working in a field i dont want to work in. i want to study science. still broad but does that answer your question somewhat? | 19:29 |
| yashgaroth | there's a lot of science out there | 19:30 |
| ParahSailin | science isnt really full of jobs | 19:33 |
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| ParahSailin | have you considered skilled labor? | 19:34 |
| curt1s | what, like a plumber? | 19:40 |
| curt1s | ParahSailin: im not entirely sure what you meant earlier (if you're semi-employed, you're not in that much of a hurry to get a computer job) | 19:47 |
| curt1s | i would actually love any kind of computer job but ive found im not at all qualified yet. this is one reason school sounds okay | 19:48 |
| curt1s | im open to any suggestions | 19:49 |
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| JayDugger | Well...you have to survive, and income provides a means to that end. | 19:54 |
| JayDugger | Do you have that covered? | 19:54 |
| JayDugger | As for working in a field you don't want to work in, I sympathize. | 19:56 |
| curt1s | yeah i have a totally normal, boring job. im surviving just fine, but i need to do more | 20:02 |
| curt1s | working in film/tv production generally means jumping from one gig to the next with zero stability | 20:03 |
| curt1s | i took a more stable job because it would allow me to survive and go to school in the afternoons/evenings | 20:03 |
| curt1s | (those production jobs tend to be all hours, unpredictable and generally offer no flexibility for anything else i.e. school) | 20:04 |
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| curt1s | anyway i dont know if anybody caught my link earlier but this sounds pretty relevant to my interests, and possibly some of yours as well http://www.hunter.cuny.edu/qubi | 20:08 |
| JayDugger | Have you talked to any of the people listed on the faculty advisors page about your situation? They might have good suggestions. http://www.hunter.cuny.edu/qubi/faculty-advisors | 20:10 |
| curt1s | yeah i plan on it | 20:10 |
| curt1s | ive been in touch with some admissions people so far, applied for spring | 20:10 |
| JayDugger | Good! | 20:10 |
| kanzure | curt1s: it sounds like you've already made up your mind and don't like our advice | 20:10 |
| curt1s | just feeling kind of stuck, frustrated you know | 20:11 |
| JayDugger | Again, I sympathize, but you've already taken action. | 20:11 |
| curt1s | kanzure: i havent made up my mind about anything, im very curious about what you do and what you'd recommend | 20:11 |
| kanzure | i think the content on http://bioinformatics.org/ is probably better than whatever crappy bioinformatics program you can get into. | 20:11 |
| JayDugger | That doesn't mean it will help him. | 20:11 |
| kanzure | oh sorry, i mean http://bioinformatics.org/wiki/ | 20:11 |
| kanzure | yeah the first link sucks, sorry about that | 20:12 |
| kanzure | just read everything on that wiki twice, and then use each of these tools: | 20:12 |
| kanzure | http://www.bioinformatics.org/wiki/Category:Software | 20:12 |
| kanzure | and you'll be about 10x more effective than most guys going through bioinformatics classes | 20:12 |
| JayDugger | If curtis has a goal of interesting, meaningful work, then he might need a credential to enable him to get anything listed here: http://bioinformatics.org/wiki/Employment | 20:12 |
| kanzure | you don't need an employer to have interesting, meaningful work | 20:13 |
| kanzure | you're full of it JayDugger | 20:13 |
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| JayDugger | That's true. You can have interesting and meaningful work at an employer. | 20:14 |
| JayDugger | You don't need an employer for it, though. | 20:14 |
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| JayDugger | Established employers help provide a sense of stability, which has some value. | 20:16 |
| curt1s | kanzure: what do you do for work | 20:16 |
| curt1s | are you totally independent | 20:16 |
| kanzure | i make things to amuse myself, but sometimes people pay me as an independent contractor. | 20:17 |
| curt1s | cool | 20:17 |
| kanzure | i didn't stay in college and i don't recommend it | 20:18 |
| curt1s | i would say the same thing to any film or theater student | 20:18 |
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| kanzure | curt1s: if you don't go to college for film, how else are you going to steal a copy of autodesk maya 2013? | 20:20 |
| kanzure | oh right | 20:20 |
| JayDugger | Ha! | 20:20 |
| brownies | hehe | 20:22 |
| brownies | i did ______ and therefore i recommend you also _______! | 20:22 |
| curt1s | heh yeah... | 20:23 |
| JayDugger | Excellent advice. | 20:24 |
| kanzure | "Launches are done in the Baltic Sea, 30-40 km. east of the Danish island Bornholm. In order to stream live we managed to get a wi-fi connection going from Bornholm to the mission control ship 40 kilometers away, but we couldn't reliably get enough bandwidth to stream all our camera positions to Bornholm. " | 20:25 |
| kanzure | "Furthermore internet connection on Bornholm is not very good. The result being that we needed to do the videomixing at sea. Only problem was that the broadcast studio, and thus the people that need to do the vdeomixing, were placed in Copenhagen." | 20:25 |
| kanzure | "he result being this videomixer where we can send two streams from the launch site at sea: the livefeed and a mosaiq of available camera positions. The studio in Copenhagen can then remotely mix the livefeed based on the mosaiq using a webbased interface, or a commandline." | 20:25 |
| yashgaroth | also what the hell how did I miss that spacex launch tonight | 20:26 |
| brownies | how could you! | 20:26 |
| brownies | although it turns out that space is mostly black and empty, especially when you're watching it through a grainy camera streaming over a satellite link | 20:26 |
| kanzure | i wish the feeds would show things like technical schematics, or interview engineers about design decisions | 20:29 |
| kanzure | or mention what checklist items are going on at the moment | 20:29 |
| kanzure | and then you could have telemetry visualization for when it launches | 20:29 |
| kanzure | http://www.indiegogo.com/TychoDeepSpace2 "Fund the development of DIY space capsule Tycho Deep Space II. This is the 3rd spacecraft developed and tested by Copenhagen Suborbitals" | 20:30 |
| kanzure | they are asking for only $10k? | 20:30 |
| kanzure | oh weird, so apparently they make $10k/mo in donations http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4071473 | 20:31 |
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| audy | kanzure "funding for the first pressure system design and production" they're funding it piecemeal | 20:32 |
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| kanzure | ah. hm. | 20:32 |
| kanzure | wait, why don't i see ads during space launches anyway? | 20:33 |
| audy | kanzure $2,000 donation gets you a cuban cigar. | 20:33 |
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| nmz787 | jrayhawk: know if cage-free pork impacts the resultant meat? lipid/hormone profile? http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/06/business/pig-farmers-face-pressure-on-the-size-of-the-sty.html?_r=1&smid=fb-share | 23:18 |
| ParahSailin | commercial pig people will continue to do cafo | 23:24 |
| nmz787 | kanzure: awake? | 23:38 |
| nmz787 | ParahSailin: cafo? | 23:39 |
| ParahSailin | conflated aminal fueling operation | 23:39 |
| nmz787 | http://jeremykun.wordpress.com/ Math ∩ Programming | 23:53 |
| --- Log closed Mon Oct 08 00:00:49 2012 | ||
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