2013-01-07.log

--- Log opened Mon Jan 07 00:00:23 2013
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archelshttp://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=kilocycle%2Ckilohertz&year_start=1900&year_end=2000&corpus=15&smoothing=3&share=04:52
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@kanzureleafblowers :(07:17
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@kanzureOn Mon, Jan 7, 2013 at 6:40 AM, Petros Amiridis <support@github.com> wrote:08:41
@kanzure> If you are willing to create a video that demonstrates the issues, we could investigate further.08:41
@kanzurewtf github08:41
@kanzurei should just rick roll them08:41
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nmz787http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2011/06/21/how-to-fit-an-elephant/09:57
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juri_the proper response is to use gitorious. ;)10:22
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nmz787https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/66041_4437827936711_1687120021_n.jpg10:45
nmz787juri_: how does gitorious compare to github?10:46
@kanzuregitorious has less users and a worse ui11:05
@kanzurebut more of its software is open source. github has only open sourced a limited amount of its infrastructure.11:05
@kanzurebitbucket is an okay alternative to github but also has less users or potential contributors11:06
Lucas_hey there11:37
chris_99i wish github had statistics on the # of checkouts etc.11:38
@fennblueback09 writes, "Hi,Are you still developing SKDB?"11:41
@fennhe's openalia.wordpress.com11:42
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@kanzurehe also emailed me that11:54
@kanzurebut then he never replied11:54
archelshttp://www.nature.com/npp/journal/vaop/naam/abs/npp20132a.html12:00
paperbothttp://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/Fluoxetine-Induced%20Cortical%20Adult%20Neurogenesis.pdf12:00
archelsFluoxetine-Induced Cortical Adult Neurogenesis12:00
archelspaperbot: lolwat12:01
@fenndoes anyone get what this paper is about? http://arxiv.org/abs/1211.054512:01
@kanzurepaperbot: http://arxiv.org/abs/1211.054512:01
@kanzure..12:01
@fennhah12:01
paperbothttp://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/Negative%20Absolute%20Temperature%20for%20Motional%20Degrees%20of%20Freedom.pdf12:01
@fennoh it's just slow12:01
@kanzurearchels: :)12:02
archelsfenn: I've seen some follow ups on that on blog posts and [tt]12:02
archelscould find links?12:02
archelshttp://www.empiricalzeal.com/2013/01/05/what-the-dalai-lama-can-teach-us-about-temperatures-below-absolute-zero/12:02
nmz787crazy weird physucs12:04
@kanzurearchels: paperbot needs other ways to access papers for when it fails. do you have an account or access you could contribtue?12:06
archelsOh, I would be happy to find papers for people if they give me a poke, but I won't hook up my university accounts to a bot, sorry.12:22
@kanzuredamn.12:22
archelsIs it all going through your account currently?12:23
@kanzureno, we're hosted at pdx.edu and have had access all along12:24
@kanzurei just.. uh. forgot.12:24
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archelsoh, neat. Well, if you ever need something, let me know. ;)12:28
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@kanzureno thanks.12:29
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archelspaper-related that is ;)12:31
@kanzureno thanks.12:34
@kanzureit's just not efficient if i have to contact hundreds of people just to get one paper. i'd rather just write some code once to do it.12:35
archelsWell, there are some 56 people here but yourself, that puts you more than halfway there. ;)12:36
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nmz787kanzure umb got back to me13:09
wrldpcdoes anyone recall the name of the german-based design collective that did the modular housing stuff and the seed mortar (launched plant seeds or something) -- radical ecological group.  German.13:10
wrldpcI think they're German.  I thought it was Core77 but that's not it … it's something 'like' that.13:10
wrldpcCore42 or something.13:10
@fennwrldpc: http://www.n55.dk13:11
wrldpcw0000t thanks fenn!13:11
@fenni'm a big fan of n5513:11
@fenni want to build something like this http://www.n55.dk/MANUALS/BOAT/BOAT.html13:12
chris_99which one is the seed mortar? that sounds intriguing13:12
@fenneh some political bullshit, i don't really care so much for it http://www.n55.dk/MANUALS/N55ROCKETSYSTEM/N55ROCKETSYSTEM.html13:13
chris_99ah heh, i thought it'd be more like a potato cannon that shot a load of seeds13:15
@fennwaste of a good rocket13:16
chris_99i just got the engine to make a little hybrid rocket using one of those tiny nitrous oxide cartridges13:17
@fenndoes that work? i'd have thought the weight to fuel ratio would be too low13:18
@fenner, fuel to weight ratio13:18
chris_99it just uses plastic or a paper tube for the fuel, which isn't too heavy13:20
chris_99i haven't tested it yet though13:20
@fennwrldpc: n55 isnt about ecology, it's about flattening power hierarchies13:27
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wrldpcCopy that.13:36
wrldpchow do you divorce the mission statement from the political ideology.  they're obviously a marxist lenninist communist socialist group who are ecologically minded.13:39
wrldpcunless payloads of genetically modified superweed seed payloads are just a means to an end.13:39
wrldpci guess it's more anarchy than anything.13:39
wrldpcthe modular housing units smack of communism.13:39
@fennyes it is explicitly communist, but without invoking the historical baggage of soviet russia13:41
nmz787". To counter the threat of genetic pollution posed by biotech firms, persons are encouraged to equip themselves with superweeds to potentially sabotage commercial GM crop fields. SuperWeeds are distributed by Heath Bunting, www.irational.org/cta/superweed/"13:41
nmz787wtf13:41
wrldpcLOL13:41
nmz787that's horrible13:41
wrldpcagreed13:41
@fenni think there's a bit of playful disinfo there13:42
nmz787http://www.irational.org/cgi-bin/language/language.pl?url=http://www.irational.org/cta/superweed/kit.html13:42
nmz787thanks to monsanto and tested by Novartis... at the botton13:43
@fenn"capable of producing a genetically mutant superweed" means they think that if you put these two plants together and let them stir around, they'll somehow magically cross pollinate and make a superweed13:43
nmz787yeah13:43
wrldpclulz13:43
wrldpclike jason silva's idea sex thing.13:43
eudoxiaoh god not that guy again13:43
wrldpc"ideas have sex, maaaan."13:43
@fenn"Whatever you do, the threat is often as effective as the execution."13:44
wrldpcisn't that the definition of the ultimate weapon?13:44
wrldpcbah that sounds awfully philosophical to me.13:44
wrldpcit's all great until they call your bluff and the weeds don't copulate.13:45
wrldpcI met a materials scientist on my flight from Japan and sat next to a design student from RISD on the flight back here.  http://energy.umich.edu/energy-research/faculty-old/aniruddha-deb/13:45
superkuhWhy would they bother interacting with you? They'll just have the local federal government raid you and put the fear of god in.13:45
wrldpcDeb's dream is a $19k Li-ion car.13:45
wrldpche did some research on zinc deficiency and pancreatic cancer.13:46
wrldpcand was specializing in producing some kind of ceramic membrane for use in lithium ion batteries to factor their efficiency.  some performance doubling.13:47
wrldpcthe RISD student is thoroughly indoctrinated by the old guard manufacturing model.13:47
wrldpcI brought up makerbot and the 3d printers and he brushed it off, "that will never replace industrial manufacturing."13:48
eudoxiahnnnghhhh13:49
wrldpcI'm like uhh13:49
wrldpcwhat about industrial lathes, CNC machines?  etc?  I don't know, he was on his way to Osaka to study from a master in the production of traditional japanese woodblocks for printmaking.13:50
@fennbut CNC woodblocks will never replace laser printers~13:50
wrldpcyes but his point is that the current paradigmatic shift loses what he calls "soul" -- he was justifying all of the time they wasted teaching him outdated or obsolete ways of doing things.13:52
@fenni have this vague feeling of how everything around me is just disposable crap, it doesn't really matter how it's made because it will be thrown away in ten years regardless13:52
wrldpcExactly!13:52
wrldpcI brought up that point "well it threatens the chinese manufacturing base for garbage trash."13:53
wrldpcHe likes the Germans of course.  Everyone likes German design.  He said "something is lost in the current design process."  they still had this kid modeling in clay.13:54
@fenni'm somewhat disappointed in what happened with arduino. now a first-gen arduino is basically useless because it's too much effort to learn how to use it, even though it's functionally identical for the typical use case13:54
wrldpcclay then the foam, then the styrene13:54
wrldpchttp://alecbabala.com/13:54
wrldpcwait wut13:56
@fennwrong link?13:56
wrldpchow many generations?13:56
wrldpcno that's him13:56
@fennthere are something like five generations of arduino now13:56
wrldpcHe expressed a desire to join the marines and "apply my design skills there" -- the tragedy is there is no space for that.  The Marine Corps stopped designing for itself years ago. That's all outsourced … then the outsourced companies interface with the war fighters to revise the designs when the designers should be the war fighters.13:57
wrldpcthere is the marine corps research center but those projects are limited.13:58
@fenngovernment institutions are not known for their innovative culture13:58
wrldpc^13:58
wrldpcoh my god13:58
wrldpcwe have these white fiberglass coffins we keep the AIM-9X missiles in.13:59
wrldpccomplete lack of design.13:59
wrldpcthere are like 24 of these cheap metal hasps that line the outside of the coffin to secure the lid to the container and whoever designed those looked for the most antagonistic form for human fingers to manipulate.14:00
wrldpcit is by no means high-speed design.14:01
nmz787fenn what do you mean about the old arduino being hard to use?14:02
@fennnmz787: now everyone "needs" an uno because otherwise you'd have to install USB drivers :\14:04
@fenni guess i'm mostly just annoyed that reprap firmware doesn't work/fit on old models14:05
@fennhow will the open hardware movement ever settle on any sort of standard kit?14:07
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@fennby the time people are settling in with beagleboard 1 and software finally works etc, beagleboard 2 comes out and everyone starts making new projects using that instead14:08
@fennarduino is relatively more stable because there's less to go wrong, less complexity and less stupid IP issues14:10
@fenni'm just frustrated by the 20 brands of tomato sauce14:11
chris_99you could always just use a PIC / AVR straight, then theres only two14:13
@fennoh but it's not just two14:14
chris_99two types of programmers though ;)14:14
@fennthere are literally hundreds of different PIC chips, and at least a dozen programmers for them14:14
@fennat least AVR has standardized its programming interface14:14
chris_99Pickit 3 will programm all pic chips14:14
chris_99AVR is actually less standard afaik14:15
@fennhow so?14:15
chris_99it has more more different types of programming interfaces14:15
@fennyou mean ICSP vs bootloader? or just pinouts?14:15
chris_99i mean some AVRs use JTAG, some use others14:16
@fennnobody uses JTAG14:16
chris_99?14:16
@fennsure if you've got it set up already why not, but i really doubt anybody goes out of the way to use JTAG instead of ICSP for no reason14:17
@fennalso, it's not a requirement. any chip can be programmed with ICSP14:18
@fenni don't really want to get into a religious war here, just whining about the lack of preferred numbers, and the lack of any sort of process to get rid of cruft14:18
chris_99i just thought when i spoke to the guys in AVR there was different types of interfaces used in programming AVRs14:19
chris_99but i could well be wrong14:19
@fennthe only way to "upgrade" a piece of hardware is to throw the old version away14:23
@fennthis really is the big difference between hardware development and software development14:23
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chris_99yeah, i don't like that idea of throwing away stuff like that14:23
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chris_99you could have one section of the project, as a breadboard ;)14:24
@fennyou're thinking of electronics, but i mean anything made of stuff14:24
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@fennbuildings, bicycles, robots14:25
@fennthe answer really is "design for disassembly"14:25
@fennbut the most promising technologies are not modular at all14:25
@fennyou can't re-use different parts of a microchip14:26
ThomasEgiactually. you can.14:26
ThomasEgibut not as a conmuser14:26
ThomasEgi*consumer14:26
ThomasEgimost microcontrollers and chips are highly modular. you can combine whatever functionality you need and manufacture a new chip from it in a very short ammount of time.14:27
@fennthe chip components might have standard interfaces on the schematic level, but by the time it's rendered as a mask all the functionality gets scrambled together14:27
@fenn"and manufacture a new chip from it" is exactly what i'm saying14:28
@fennthe software is reusable, the hardware is not14:28
ThomasEgiwell that's the price you pay for miniaturisation14:28
chris_99FPGAs are "re-usable" i guess14:28
@fennit applies to large scale objects as well14:28
@fennit's often more expensive to renovate a building for a new purpose than to just build a new one14:28
@fennmost buildings are designed for human occupation, so that's not a very good example14:30
@fennchris_99: right, fpga is starting to break down the barrier between hardware and software. i'd like to see more work using this philosophy14:31
@fenna breadboard is very similar in spirit14:31
@fennprotein synthesis is another example14:31
@fennin all these cases we sacrifice some performance for the sake of modularity and reusability14:32
@fennthe n55 boat/platform/house is a good example of a mesoscale modular system14:33
chris_99i guess it's not in the advantage of consumer hardware manufacturers to make things re-usable14:35
@fennbut then we have things like arduino, which are essentially glorified breadboards that aren't disassembly-friendly14:36
@fennis arduino a consumer hardware manufacturer?14:36
chris_99hmm good point, don't know about that14:37
chris_99are all arduinos pin for pin compatible14:37
chris_99with the shields14:37
@fennso are ATX motherboards14:37
@fennit's hard to convince people that the reprap threaded rod system is better than a lasercut plywood or lasercut acrylic, when those materials are both such a small part of the overall system cost14:39
@fennit would be great if we could use discarded CD-ROM motors or whatever, but here again the lack of standardization bites back14:40
@fennso we're stuck buying off the shelf stepper motors just to have a design that is documented14:41
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@kanzurenmz787: what did umb say?14:42
@kanzurefenn: is there an arduino package manager? that seems like a rather glaring oversight.14:44
chris_99you could always RE the stepper motor though, but yeah it'd take time14:45
@kanzurei think you can apt-get whatever-lib dash dev packages, but i doubt there's arduino things being distributed in -dev form14:45
@fenna majority of the code is included in the arduino package itself14:46
@fennfilesystem code, serial protocols, etc14:47
@kanzurea stdlib is enough for nayone14:47
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juri_my reprap has a lot of reccled parts. standardization isn't the problem, its that the language used for part design does not easily let you say "this part was made for a nema17, but we have a nema21. recompile.'15:19
juri_thats why i've become a fan of implicitcad; the language itsself makes such changes easier.15:19
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juri_now i just need to learn the bloody language, and they need to finish off 'constraints' support.15:20
@kanzure"Due to export restrictions, TokenKey requires an EZproxy license"15:33
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@kanzurehmmm16:15
@kanzurehttps://github.com/kanzure?tab=contributions16:15
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@kanzureOn Mon, Jan 7, 2013 at 6:21 PM, Arnold <arnoldsander@gmail.com> wrote:17:12
@kanzure> any current public effort`s to extend DIYbio's information base beyond this17:12
@kanzure> google group? (this group seems to be the only place left where I seem to be17:12
@kanzure> able to find information that is current)17:12
@kanzurei wonder if my emails are just being filtered at this point17:12
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eudoxiameanwhile at the DHS' secret underground volcano fortress...17:41
eudoxia"he knows! abort abort"17:41
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@kanzurewell this is enraging https://github.com/kennethreitz/requests/issues/107418:51
@kanzurethey broke proxy support and are blaming it on another library :|18:51
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nmz787kanzure: umb said i had a student record created, but said i would get another email with a username or ID #, which I haven't got yet, I emailed their omputer support team so maybe I'll hear tomorrow19:34
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joehot.wa 1+121:20
paperbot1+1;2;two;| +->-> = ->, 1->->1->->2;age 6:  3.2 seconds -> age 8:  1.8 seconds -> age 10:  1.2 seconds -> , age 18:  0.83 seconds, (ignoring concentration, repetition, variations in education, etc.)21:20
joehothah21:20
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joehotpaperbot: tell kanzure cool disable friend21:21
paperbotjoehot: I'll pass that on when kanzure is around.21:21
yashgarothpaperbot: where's my damn bagel21:22
@kanzurefjkdla;adkfjadlfjklad21:23
paperbotkanzure: 05:21Z <joehot> tell kanzure cool disable friend21:23
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joehotshouldnt have said anything21:24
joehottotally exploitable21:25
joehotdo you want a pastebin of the excludes21:25
@kanzureno i want phenny fixed21:25
joehotare you going to do it21:25
joehoti think its pretty funny that they didnt stop to think the other half of the eqn didnt get implemented21:26
@kanzurefucking with urllib at the moment21:26
@kanzurephenny will be next21:26
joehotill do it21:26
joehothttps://github.com/sbp/phenny/pull/4/files21:31
joehotthey werent paying attention21:31
@kanzurethat doesn't seem to account for per-channel rules21:32
joehotthere are none21:32
joehotor are there21:32
joehotafaik that was never an option to begin with21:32
joehotthe bot is pretty primitive atm21:32
@kanzurehttps://github.com/sbp/phenny/blob/master/phenny#L2521:33
@kanzurein particularl ine 5221:33
@kanzure*line 5221:33
joehotmaybe it chains into setup()21:34
joehot"maps channel names to white or black lists"21:35
joehotoh21:35
joehoti think theyre separate21:35
joehoti have a feeling that wasnt even implemented either21:35
joehotim surprised they remembered to do the part where it holds together21:36
joehotstartup is a reqd module21:36
joehoti guess i assumed it was more fleshed out21:37
@fennwhat the hell was .wa supposed to do?21:38
@fennoh was that wolfram alpha?21:40
joehot.wa -i21:41
joehotoh right the bots gone21:41
@kanzurei wonder who recommended phenny to me21:42
joehotweird, it kind of looks like there is code for it already21:50
joehothm actually this looks accidental21:55
joehotwait no, that's just inconsistency21:56
joehotfound the bug22:01
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joehotwait22:05
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joehotkanzure: pastebin your default.py22:06
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@kanzurejoehot: http://pastebin.com/0fw578ga22:11
@fenni hope the text on supybot.org is autogenerated22:11
joehot   '*': ['!'], # default whitelist, allow all22:12
joehotthere was no bug22:12
joehotmy problem happened because i put modules/ in extra22:12
joehotwell, there was a bug22:13
joehotbecause if you put modules/ in extra it includes all of them22:14
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@kanzurepaperbot: .help22:14
@kanzurepaperbot: .admin22:14
@kanzurepaperbot: .wa 1+122:14
joehotso i guess it includes all modules in extra folders22:14
joehot.wa 1+122:14
paperbot1+1;2;two;| +->-> = ->, 1->->1->->2;age 6:  3.2 seconds -> age 8:  1.8 seconds -> age 10:  1.2 seconds -> , age 18:  0.83 seconds, (ignoring concentration, repetition, variations in education, etc.)22:14
joehothm22:14
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joehotenable is empty22:14
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joehotwait22:15
joehotenable is commented out22:15
joehotso i think you can turn the default whitelist back on22:15
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@fennenable = [] no?22:16
joehotit has to be uncommented22:16
@fennoh its different on the pastebin22:16
joehotyes22:17
@fenn/home/bryan/code/paperbot/modules/  is wrong22:17
joehotapparently not, papers works22:18
joehot.papers22:18
@fennshould be /home/bryan/code/paperbot/phenny/modules/22:18
joehotoh, right22:18
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joehot.papers22:18
joehot.wa 1+122:18
@kanzureno i wanted /home/bryan/code/paperbot/modules/ to be a separate thing22:18
joehotnow its just broken22:18
@kanzurewhy would i want to commit all of the other phenny modules?22:18
@kanzurehttp://arxiv.org/abs/1211.054522:19
paperbothttp://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/Negative%20Absolute%20Temperature%20for%20Motional%20Degrees%20of%20Freedom.pdf22:19
@kanzurelooks like it works to me22:19
@fenn.reload22:20
@kanzurepaperbot: reload papers22:20
paperbotkanzure: <module 'papers' from '/home/bryan/code/paperbot/phenny/modules/papers.pyc'> (version: 2013-01-07 04:08:54)22:20
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joehot.papers22:21
joehotpaperbot: paper22:22
joehotpaperbot: papers22:22
@kanzurei find your lack of faith disturbing22:22
@fennso it doesn't fetch papers if you say anything else before the link?22:25
@fennhttp://foo22:25
@kanzurei used str.startswith because i was too lazy to parse strings for urls22:26
@kanzurebut that would be a relevant addition22:26
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@fennhttp://httpstatus.es/40122:28
@fennoh it has to find that url in the url22:29
@kanzurehuh?22:29
@kanzurefenn: https://github.com/kanzure/paperbot/blob/master/modules/papers.py22:29
@kanzurea nice patch for someone to contribute would be one that parses multiple urls in a message *cough*22:31
@kanzurehmm and title = title.encode(..) should probably be moved up before os.path.join22:32
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--- Log closed Tue Jan 08 00:00:24 2013

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