| --- Log opened Tue Jan 08 00:00:24 2013 | ||
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| @kanzure | "Requested requests==1.0.4, but installing version 0.14.2" | 00:44 |
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| @kanzure | what why would i want it to do that | 00:45 |
| @kanzure | well this should support requests==0.14.2 and requests==1.0.4 now | 00:51 |
| @kanzure | https://github.com/kanzure/careful-requests | 00:51 |
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| Burn_with_intent | I expect you've probably seen this, but just incase: http://arstechnica.com/science/2013/01/bacterial-immune-system-used-to-engineer-human-dna-in-human-cells/ | 07:58 |
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| @kanzure | http://www.marketwatch.com/story/elsevier-acquires-aureus-sciences-provider-of-databases-and-information-tools-for-pharmaceutical-and-biotech-companies-2013-01-08 | 09:32 |
| @kanzure | i wonder how elsevier decided to acquire them | 09:33 |
| @kanzure | was it just because they have "databases"? | 09:33 |
| delinquentme | biebs smokes weed | 09:45 |
| delinquentme | lulz | 09:45 |
| strangewarp | apparently if you get a strain of weed with a cannabinol:THC ratio of <1:20, it increases concentration and suppresses appetite: http://www.centennialseeds.com/2012/08/24/equatorial-sativas-difficult-to-grow-and-low-yielding-so-why-bother/ | 09:47 |
| strangewarp | They're very uncommon to find, though, since they don't have "jar appeal"... which is silly | 09:49 |
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| Burninate | strangewarp: My understanding was that low CBD:THC ratio produced extreme anxiety/paranoia | 11:02 |
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| strangewarp | Burninate: From what I know, that varies from person to person | 11:06 |
| @kanzure | http://symbolhound.com/ claims to do exact symbol web searching with special characters | 11:15 |
| @kanzure | it's sad that i have to call '"*/\|{}$ "special".. but it is what it is. | 11:15 |
| @kanzure | seems to only search stackoverflow though | 11:16 |
| chris_99 | oh darn, otherwise that'd be really useful | 11:16 |
| @kanzure | oh geeze stackoverflow's search isn't exact-symbol either | 11:16 |
| @kanzure | so i guess that is slightly useful | 11:16 |
| @kanzure | now all we need is a pdf search engine that actually respects bytes too | 11:19 |
| @kanzure | how did google scholar convince everyone to let them index content? | 11:19 |
| chris_99 | don't get you, don't they just spider all pdfs from webpages | 11:20 |
| @kanzure | no | 11:20 |
| @kanzure | publishers used to allow the google scholar user-agent string | 11:20 |
| @kanzure | and then they switched to ip address verification | 11:20 |
| chris_99 | oh intriguing | 11:21 |
| @kanzure | someone should check if there's any publishers left that are only checking the user-agent string | 11:21 |
| chris_99 | a distributed/p2p client that could run at unis to grab papers would be sweet, it could also act as a bibliography manager or something | 11:23 |
| brownies | i heard the other day that microsoft's scholar search was >> google's | 11:23 |
| @kanzure | brownies: it uses silverlight, it's a lie | 11:23 |
| brownies | i had no idea they even *had* a scholar search | 11:24 |
| brownies | kanzure: oh. dammit. | 11:24 |
| @kanzure | chris_99: well, if you have a username/password for one, i can add it to paperbot. | 11:24 |
| @kanzure | brownies: this thing, right? http://academic.research.microsoft.com/ | 11:43 |
| brownies | yeah that appears to be it | 11:45 |
| brownies | kanzure: not seeing any SilverLight yet ... ? | 11:45 |
| @kanzure | me either | 11:45 |
| @kanzure | seems sort of slow though? | 11:49 |
| @kanzure | also they use id numbers hehe | 11:51 |
| @kanzure | http://academic.research.microsoft.com/Publication/59618332 | 11:51 |
| @kanzure | http://academic.research.microsoft.com/Publication/59618331 | 11:51 |
| @kanzure | etc.. | 11:51 |
| @kanzure | it doesn't seem to link to the publisher's site | 11:53 |
| @kanzure | wait what's the point of this o_o | 11:54 |
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| @kanzure | a few of them have a "View publication" link or two: http://academic.research.microsoft.com/Publication/27048497/a-pvdf-receiver-for-ultrasound-monitoring-of-transcranial-focused-ultrasound-therapy | 11:58 |
| @kanzure | http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/stamp/stamp.jsp?arnumber=05473035 | 11:58 |
| @kanzure | damn you paperbot | 11:58 |
| brownies | kanzure: yeah the search was really quick, but clicking on a result was really slow for some reason. | 12:02 |
| @kanzure | ignoring for a moment that this paper is by hameroff, here's a study of transcranial ultrasound applied to the human brain: | 12:04 |
| @kanzure | http://www.quantumconsciousness.org/documents/TUSinpress2.pdf | 12:04 |
| @kanzure | from 2012 | 12:04 |
| @kanzure | fenn: so that might somewhat answer your question ("has anybody actually tried it") | 12:04 |
| brownies | who is Hameroff and why does that matter? | 12:05 |
| @fenn | somehow the url makes me immediately dubious i will enjoy reading the paper | 12:05 |
| @fenn | oh they're using it for anesthesia? | 12:06 |
| nmz787 | Burninate: strangewarp I've heard pure THC is pretty nasty, but I only heard that from some BBC special where some doc injected it into this reporter | 12:07 |
| * Burninate is referencing same | 12:07 | |
| @kanzure | brownies: hameroff is the wacko who believes in quantum consciousness and tubules-many-world-theory | 12:07 |
| @kanzure | i think he's a wacko for believing in consciousness in the first place, but the broader scientific community dislikes him for his spurious claims of quantum theory and neuroscience | 12:08 |
| Burninate | considering it's semi-legal now in two states, I hope *some* dedicated amateur does some real research on it | 12:08 |
| @fenn | there has been a lot of research on THC in israel | 12:08 |
| @fenn | and various cannabinoids | 12:08 |
| @kanzure | fenn: they are using it to treat chronic pain in that paper | 12:08 |
| * Burninate wonders if gwern would move to Colorado | 12:08 | |
| @fenn | i'm not sure how THC came up as a topic in the first place; did i say something? i was reading about endocannabinoids last night | 12:09 |
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| @kanzure | jrochkind: hi | 12:10 |
| jrochkind | howdy | 12:10 |
| chris_99 | Penrose believes in quantum conciousness doesn't he, though he's more of a physicist | 12:10 |
| jrochkind | i got a few minutes. | 12:10 |
| Burninate | <delinquentme> biebs smokes weed | 12:11 |
| Burninate | <delinquentme> lulz | 12:11 |
| Burninate | <strangewarp> apparently if you get a strain of weed with a cannabinol:THC ratio of <1:20, it increases concentration and suppresses appetite: http://www.centennialseeds.com/2012/08/24/equatorial-sativas-difficult-to-grow-and-low-yielding-so-why-bother/ | 12:11 |
| @kanzure | jrochkind: i appreciated your insights on the HN thread | 12:11 |
| @kanzure | chris_99: penrose is also nuts | 12:11 |
| jrochkind | kanzure: cool. | 12:11 |
| chris_99 | hehe, i read a little of the Emporers new mind, didn't finish it though | 12:12 |
| jrochkind | kanzure: it's also possible i have no idea what i'm talking about. doing too many things at once, as usual. | 12:12 |
| jrochkind | kanzure: you guys are at georgia tech? is that where rsinger used to be back in the day, yeah? | 12:12 |
| @kanzure | i am not affiliated with an institution | 12:12 |
| jrochkind | ah | 12:12 |
| @kanzure | jrochkind: i was wondering what you know about ezproxy. it seems they wrote their own http server in c. | 12:12 |
| jrochkind | thus your interest in pirating PDFs (just kidding!) | 12:12 |
| jrochkind | kanzure: i am not familiar with the internal implementation of ezproxy, but that seems possible. EZProxy was not originally an OCLC product, it's company was purchased by OCLC. | 12:13 |
| jrochkind | kanzure: why would any of us care about the internal implementation of exproxy? | 12:13 |
| @kanzure | right, i think that acquisition happened in 2008 | 12:13 |
| @kanzure | because i have been reverse engineering it and finding some buffer overflows | 12:13 |
| jrochkind | okay... why? | 12:13 |
| @kanzure | there's at least 2000 schools that use it | 12:13 |
| @kanzure | because i want access? | 12:13 |
| @kanzure | i don't see how all these schools collectively decided to be using it anyway | 12:14 |
| @kanzure | it's not a great piece of software.. wtf happened? | 12:14 |
| jrochkind | Maybe if I were logged into an account without my real name attached, then, maybe, I could give you advice for hacking other schools EZProxy's to pirate scholarly content. Maybe. But I probably still wouldn't. | 12:14 |
| jrochkind | If that's really what you're asking me? | 12:14 |
| @kanzure | haha no that's not what i'm asking you, jeeze | 12:14 |
| @kanzure | i'm asking you more about the social context that allowed oclc to happen and why things like ezproxy are popular in the first place | 12:14 |
| jrochkind | Two seperate questions, which do you want? :) | 12:15 |
| jrochkind | Or short answer to both. | 12:15 |
| @kanzure | how about short :) | 12:15 |
| jrochkind | So back in the day (we're talking 100 years ago), every library had to catalog (write metadata) for it's own materials. | 12:15 |
| jrochkind | Then, even pre-computer, they started sharing cataloging on punchcards. | 12:15 |
| @kanzure | sure, they wanted to share their data input via oclc | 12:16 |
| jrochkind | They originally had regional cooperatives, like cooperatively member-owned organizations, they created to share cataloging, and also to share "who holds what", for inter-library loan in regional areas. | 12:16 |
| @kanzure | but i hear that ILL costs $0.30/query and other crap.. who would agree to this? | 12:16 |
| jrochkind | These cooperatively owned organizations were called 'bibliographic utiltiies'. They started merging. OCLC is what's left, it ate all of them. (It was originally Ohio). | 12:17 |
| jrochkind | That's the short answer to "the social context that allowed oclc to happen" | 12:17 |
| jrochkind | You want to know why OCLC _still_ exists, taht's a different question. :) | 12:17 |
| @kanzure | i assume licensing requirements or something | 12:18 |
| @fenn | the short short answer is "network effect" | 12:18 |
| @kanzure | how did Useful Utilities get market domination? | 12:18 |
| jrochkind | The short answer to "why things like ezproxy are popular in the first place" -- universities spend millions of dollars each on licensing electronic scholarly content, hosted on third party platforms. These things are licensed for affiliated users. But most of these platforms are technologically craptastic (and most library/university IT infrastructures are too), so the only way they can authetnicate "who is an affiliated user" is by IP address. | 12:19 |
| jrochkind | Yet it's obviously important for libraries to let their users access these resources when they aren't on-campus. But the third party platform can only authenticate by IP address. So you need a VPN and/or proxy of some kind. Thus EZProxy. Which gives you a way to proxy, without the user having to log into a VPN (which sucks), and without the user having to configure their browser to send ALL traffic through a generic http proxy (which also sucks | 12:20 |
| @kanzure | yeah but why ezproxy? were they the only ones selling software that did what they needed? | 12:20 |
| jrochkind | EZProxy was actually really good at doing what it does. | 12:20 |
| jrochkind | Back when it was an independent operation, it was basically a one-man shop, and that one man was really clever, AND if you filed a support ticket, he'd fix the problem or even develop a new feature to meet your need very quickly. | 12:21 |
| jrochkind | EZProxy won by being better than the competition, legit. | 12:21 |
| jrochkind | Certainly there's a bunch of crappy things about EZProxy too. | 12:21 |
| jrochkind | I mean, the whole fucking _design_ is a nightmare, it's a bad way to do things, proxying traffic for the purpose of IP-based auth. But EZProxy did it better than any of the competitors. | 12:21 |
| @kanzure | how much was it acquired for? | 12:22 |
| @kanzure | and do you know how much a license costs? | 12:22 |
| jrochkind | i have no idea how much it was aquired for, probably not public info. | 12:23 |
| jrochkind | a license is relatively cheap, although it's probably gotten more expensive since the acquisition. | 12:23 |
| @kanzure | ah wait it is public, neat | 12:23 |
| brownies | what about OCLC? why does that continue to stick around when it costs such a price-gouging amount of money? | 12:23 |
| @kanzure | $600,000 in 2008. lame. | 12:23 |
| jrochkind | But it used to be REALLY cheap for enterprise software. Like $300 a year or something? Which is really cheap for the library market. | 12:23 |
| @kanzure | $600k for 2000 users? | 12:23 |
| jrochkind | Maybe $800 a year. Still cheap for the market. $800 is nothing when you're paying $20 million a year on the licenses for the content EZProxy is giving you access to. | 12:23 |
| jrochkind | I have no idea what justifies the companies purchase price. | 12:24 |
| @kanzure | yep that's about $300/customer, neat. | 12:24 |
| jrochkind | Maybe it's not $300/year*2000, so much as locking users into the OCLC platform and providing a complete wall-to-wall library IT solution, which is what OCLC wants/needs to do, you know? | 12:24 |
| jrochkind | But shit, you know how many companies Google has purchased for many multiples of their yearly revenue? Maybe OCLC just thought Google knew something it didn't. :) | 12:25 |
| @kanzure | google scholar striked deals with publishers to get full text | 12:25 |
| jrochkind | yeah, a lot of that is secret. My impression is that at first they had to pay publishers, but eventually they had publishers who would have paid google for the privilege of being indexed on scholar! | 12:26 |
| @kanzure | yeah, it used to be by user agent | 12:26 |
| jrochkind | As with everything internet, people are confused about what is valuable for whom how. | 12:26 |
| @kanzure | people were spoofing the google scholar user agent string | 12:26 |
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| jrochkind | interesting. easy enough for them to do it by IP instead, and it's harder (although not impossible) to spoof a google IP. But have they largely given up and realized that if they're letting google scholar index a page, it might as well be public? | 12:27 |
| @kanzure | it's too bad that google doesn't go after oclc. i figure there's not enough profit in the business of making books and knowledge free. | 12:27 |
| brownies | the "free" part probably throws a wrench into that | 12:28 |
| @kanzure | brownies: they can sell ads on android devices to read the books :P | 12:28 |
| jrochkind | I'm not sure the public would benefit from such a thing. And yeah, I think Google would be making a huge mistake in buying OCLC, it's not actually a very profitable business OCLC is in. | 12:28 |
| brownies | i would not mind advertisements next to my scholarly reading | 12:28 |
| brownies | read a paper on nootropics => "click here to purchase on Amazon.com!" | 12:29 |
| @kanzure | [B[A | 12:29 |
| @kanzure | deepdyve is awful, i hate it | 12:29 |
| @kanzure | they do rent per page and i think they might do some advertising | 12:29 |
| jrochkind | OCLC is also a member-owned cooperative, the customer members would have to agree by vote to sell to Google. Or maybe you just mean Google competing with OCLC, not Google buying OCLC. Yeah, I don't think it's nearly profitable enough for Google. | 12:29 |
| brownies | jrochkind: we were looking at OCLC's pricing ... surely they make good money, given how much they price-gouge their customers? | 12:29 |
| nmz787 | so i really need a PDF organizer with search | 12:29 |
| @kanzure | nmz787: mendeley | 12:30 |
| brownies | they have the most obscene fees for the most ridiculous things... basically multiple cents per API call | 12:30 |
| jrochkind | So a couple things. | 12:30 |
| nmz787 | kanzure: mendeley isn't local | 12:30 |
| @kanzure | nmz787: yes it is | 12:30 |
| @kanzure | the mendeley client is local. | 12:30 |
| jrochkind | One, it's VERY hard to get accurate info on OCLC pricing, it's quite possible what you were looking at is outdated and not OCLC's current pricing model. | 12:30 |
| @kanzure | nmz787: also, zotero has local search | 12:30 |
| jrochkind | Two, OCLC is, again, actually a member-owned cooperative, it's customer-owned. There are no profits going to investors. Believe it or not, all of OCLC's income goes to operating expenses. including salaries for executives, of course. And executives are i'm sure paid well, but not as well as Google's. :) | 12:31 |
| @kanzure | nmz787: zotero can be used outside of firefox (because of xulrunner) if you happen to not like firefox | 12:31 |
| nmz787 | hmm | 12:31 |
| nmz787 | i can't find this stupid paper and it's not in the directory i thought it should be | 12:31 |
| nmz787 | :/ | 12:31 |
| @kanzure | actually yeah, use zotero. it's open source. mendeley is evil. | 12:31 |
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| @kanzure | mendeley seems to be trying to do a play to eat ISI's lunch. | 12:32 |
| @kanzure | jrochkind: "profits going to investors" isn't exactly how a venture-backed operation works | 12:32 |
| jrochkind | i dunno man, i'm no entrepeneur. All I'm saying is when you say "surely they make good money", i'm not sure what you mean but it's probably not so. The only way anyone's making money from OCLC is from their salaries. | 12:33 |
| @kanzure | well at $0.30 per api call, it adds up to lots of dollars | 12:34 |
| @kanzure | is it paying for bandwidth? no, that can't be it. is it paying for data entry? no, the libraries pay for that.. | 12:34 |
| jrochkind | perhaps their financial statements are public and you can see their revenue and expenses and where it goes, i dunno. | 12:34 |
| nmz787 | does OCLC also negotiate the content tho | 12:34 |
| nmz787 | is some % of that .30 going to Nature group? | 12:34 |
| @kanzure | no | 12:34 |
| jrochkind | It is to some extent mysterious to me too, honestly. Except I know there's nobody secretly making millions off it, it's not possible. | 12:34 |
| @kanzure | oclc is primarily for books and cataloging | 12:35 |
| @kanzure | institutions make individual subscription deals to academic publishers | 12:35 |
| @kanzure | *deals with | 12:35 |
| jrochkind | I think a large part of the explanation lies in "legacy". When you've been doing something for 80 years, you've got a lot of legacy to support, and it gets expensive in annoying ways. Perhaps someone starting from scratch could do it with less expenses, but then someone starting from scratch would have trouble competing with OCLC naturally. :) | 12:35 |
| jrochkind | Why are you guys so obsessed with OCLC, anyhow? | 12:36 |
| @kanzure | i want my content :3 | 12:36 |
| jrochkind | But OCLC isn't the one guarding your content, is it? That's what I'm curious about, why you've focused on OCLC, they don't have much to do with electronic scholarly content, honestly. | 12:36 |
| jrochkind | OCLC _used_ to be an electronic content aggregation vendor themselves, but they've been mostly trying to get out of that business. | 12:36 |
| @kanzure | they have a giant index of all books and holdings of books that i can't access | 12:36 |
| @kanzure | they have a shitty search interface that makes it impossible to copy the database | 12:37 |
| @kanzure | nearly impossible | 12:37 |
| @kanzure | and claiming copyright on it is annoying | 12:37 |
| jrochkind | all that stuff is in flux, but, yeah, they don't really wnat you to copy their db. | 12:37 |
| jrochkind | I'm not sure why you are so fixated on wanting to though, it won't give you access to _the content_, just to an index of books, what so excites you about a database of books? | 12:38 |
| jrochkind | If you're annoyed you can't get scholarly article PDFs, you should focus your ire more on Elsevier et al. | 12:38 |
| @kanzure | knowing which books and papers exist is the first step to getting them all | 12:38 |
| brownies | jrochkind: yes, i think they stick around because of legacy and possibly some network effects from having all libraries on their system | 12:38 |
| jrochkind | they don't really have a very good database of papers, and what they do have they've largely licensed from others, it's not uinque to them. | 12:38 |
| jrochkind | And books, Amazon and Google Books both probably have better databases of books even. | 12:38 |
| @kanzure | i think isi, mendeley, google scholar and microsoft academic research search have fairly good index of all papers | 12:39 |
| jrochkind | And both Amazon and Google Books have better free APIs. Amazon's ToS are weird, Google Books aren't even that. | 12:39 |
| @kanzure | their free APIs are just throwaways though, they don't really want you to have the data. | 12:39 |
| @kanzure | if they cared that much, they would give archive.org the data | 12:39 |
| jrochkind | Yeah, a good idnex of all papers is hard to come by for free. But OCLC doesn't have it either. | 12:39 |
| jrochkind | What OCLC does have, they've licensed from others on terms that prevent them from sharing it with you. | 12:40 |
| @kanzure | yes, i just enumerated the sources of where you would find that, you would note oclc was not in that list -_- | 12:40 |
| @kanzure | what's the point though of all this non-sharing | 12:40 |
| @kanzure | that's not what a library is | 12:40 |
| jrochkind | In fact, OCLC's _papers_ index isn't available via API _even to OCLC member/customers_, becuase of their own licensing. | 12:40 |
| jrochkind | which pisses OCLC off too, heh. | 12:40 |
| @kanzure | fascinating. is there a story? | 12:40 |
| jrochkind | not really. OCLC didn't have an index of papers. They knew they needed one. They assembled one by licensing metadata from people like ISI, and publishers. They licensed it on terms that don't let them redistribute it in bulk or via API, either because they didn't realize they needed to or because those they got it from weren't willing to give it away. | 12:41 |
| jrochkind | the whole scholarly market is a mess. | 12:41 |
| jrochkind | and everyone knows it. | 12:41 |
| @kanzure | what are publishers going to be doing about the open access requirements that the UK setup a year-ish ago? | 12:42 |
| jrochkind | I agree OCLC is making some mistakes, and ought to be a lot more open with their data. They're motivated by trying to stay in business; I think they're still doing things wrong. But I don't think OCLC is at the heart of the disfunction that is pissing you off. | 12:42 |
| jrochkind | and now i'll do a bit of work at work before I go home. Good luck! | 12:43 |
| @kanzure | seeya. thanks for tolerating our questions. | 12:44 |
| jrochkind | (and for better or worse, I predict that libraries as a whole and OCLC in particular will all no longer exist in 10 years. :) ) | 12:44 |
| @kanzure | didn't we predict that 10 years ago? | 12:44 |
| jrochkind | Some people did. I didn't, heh. | 12:45 |
| @kanzure | oops i mean, didn't we say 10 years from now as of 10 years ago? | 12:45 |
| @kanzure | erm.. i mean. it's past due. | 12:45 |
| jrochkind | 10 years ago, I still personally didn't really believe ebooks were going to happen. Ebooks are going to be final nail in the coffin. Becuase publishers largely will not allow libraries to lend ebooks. | 12:45 |
| @kanzure | libraries are far older than publishers, it's hilarious how much more leverage publishers have over libraries | 12:45 |
| jrochkind | with print books, there are certain legal provisions in the US at least that give the libraries power vis a vis the publishers, that they don't have with ebooks. | 12:46 |
| jrochkind | @google first sale doctrine | 12:46 |
| jrochkind | oops, no bot in here. | 12:46 |
| @kanzure | we just have paperbot. also some suspect that i might be a bot. | 12:46 |
| jrochkind | you know about #code4lib, that's the channel where the library software geeks hang out. | 12:46 |
| jrochkind | you can ask them all questions too, and start interesting argumetns there. :) | 12:46 |
| @kanzure | is aaronsw hanging out there anymore? | 12:46 |
| jrochkind | i don't actually know him. | 12:46 |
| nmz787 | kanzure: what is umb's exproxy URL? | 12:46 |
| @kanzure | nmz787: http://ezproxy.lib.umb.edu/login | 12:47 |
| @kanzure | jrochkind: he was the kid that got caught at mit | 12:47 |
| jrochkind | but yeah, legally a library (or anyone else) in the US can buy any old copy of a print book anywhere, and have the legal right to lend it out (or even rent it out for $) without copyright owners permission. not so with ebooks. | 12:47 |
| jrochkind | i dont' remember that story, kid that got caught at mit. Oh wait, vaguely. | 12:48 |
| jrochkind | what was he doing? | 12:48 |
| jrochkind | (allegedly) | 12:48 |
| @kanzure | he was allegedly copying jstor things | 12:48 |
| jrochkind | aha. | 12:48 |
| @kanzure | federal governmen is prosecuting at the moment. | 12:48 |
| @kanzure | *government | 12:48 |
| jrochkind | interesting. | 12:48 |
| @kanzure | archive.org has the court documents | 12:48 |
| jrochkind | what's his full name? I'd like to google it more, maybe publisize it a bit on my blog. | 12:48 |
| @kanzure | aaron swartz | 12:48 |
| jrochkind | thanks | 12:48 |
| @kanzure | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Swartz#JSTOR | 12:49 |
| @kanzure | "JSTOR put out a statement saying it would not pursue civil litigation against Swartz." | 12:49 |
| @kanzure | government still going after him anyway | 12:49 |
| jrochkind | so you guys are, like, the hackers that care about scholarly information? heh | 12:49 |
| jrochkind | that's fucked up. | 12:49 |
| jrochkind | JSTOR not pursuing litigation but gvmt doing it anyway, is. | 12:49 |
| @kanzure | if science is so important, why the fuck don't i have a backup? | 12:49 |
| nmz787 | we are knownledge junkies | 12:50 |
| nmz787 | need more info!!! | 12:50 |
| * nmz787 beams crazy eyes around the room | 12:50 | |
| jrochkind | if there is a _particular_ paper you want and can't get, you can probably ask in #code4lib, and someone will probably email you a PDF. From time to time. if you do it every day, people will prob get tired of it, heh. | 12:50 |
| @kanzure | no i have my own methods of access | 12:51 |
| @kanzure | paperbot: hiii | 12:51 |
| jrochkind | JStor of course doesn't own the copyright for any of that stuff. They just license it themselves. | 12:51 |
| @kanzure | nature.com/nmat/journal/v11/n9/full/nmat3357.html | 12:51 |
| @kanzure | oops | 12:51 |
| @kanzure | http://nature.com/nmat/journal/v11/n9/full/nmat3357.html | 12:51 |
| nmz787 | when paperbot fails it just pings #code4lib :P | 12:51 |
| jrochkind | Elsevier etc. are the real public enemies number 1 here. | 12:51 |
| paperbot | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/Rapid%20casting%20of%20patterned%20vascular%20networks%20for%20perfusable%20engineered%20three-dimensional%20tissues.pdf | 12:51 |
| jrochkind | Woah. | 12:51 |
| jrochkind | You want to write a paper on how paperbot works? :) | 12:51 |
| jrochkind | I'm awfully curious. | 12:51 |
| @kanzure | sure, i'd be happy to. | 12:52 |
| nmz787 | it just downloads the paper and pastes a link i thought | 12:52 |
| @kanzure | it uses zotero | 12:52 |
| jrochkind | oh, it just uses zotero, hmm. | 12:52 |
| @kanzure | so under the hood it's https://github.com/zotero/translators | 12:52 |
| jrochkind | Wait, I still don't get it. | 12:52 |
| @kanzure | but before that it's a layer of proxies | 12:52 |
| jrochkind | How can a zotero translator get access to something you don't have access to? | 12:52 |
| @kanzure | i do have access | 12:52 |
| jrochkind | ah. | 12:53 |
| jrochkind | how THAT is so is the interesting part. :) | 12:53 |
| @kanzure | pdx.edu gives you a user id when you signup to register for classes | 12:53 |
| @kanzure | i just don't take classes | 12:53 |
| jrochkind | interesting. | 12:53 |
| jrochkind | You might not want to admit THAT in a public article, or at least don't mention PDX by name, heh. | 12:54 |
| @kanzure | well it's sort of obvious, check the /whois on paperbot | 12:54 |
| jrochkind | yeah, but if you start publisizing it, they might have to change their practices. | 12:54 |
| @kanzure | yes :( | 12:54 |
| jrochkind | but i'd be interested in reading a piece by you on all this stuff, the ways you manage to get access to this stuff grey area-ly. | 12:55 |
| jrochkind | paperbot, etc. | 12:55 |
| @kanzure | haha but they would just use it to stop me :( | 12:55 |
| @kanzure | i just want to read my papers, you know | 12:55 |
| jrochkind | yeah, you could do it without mentioning PDX by name etc. But yeah, understood, indeed. | 12:55 |
| jrochkind | If you wanted to though, you could send an article proposal to Code4Lib Journal. | 12:55 |
| @kanzure | but really, zotero/translators.git is a pretty accurate answer | 12:55 |
| @kanzure | haha let me guess, $2000/page to publish? | 12:56 |
| jrochkind | nah, free and free. | 12:56 |
| jrochkind | completely open access journal, nobody gets paid nobody pays. | 12:56 |
| jrochkind | i'm on the editorial committee. it's the journal for hackers who work for libraries. :) | 12:56 |
| @kanzure | hmm. | 12:56 |
| @kanzure | these librarian hackers seem to be slacking? :p | 12:57 |
| jrochkind | 'hacker' in maybe the other sense. | 12:57 |
| @kanzure | ah yes the conformist we-cant-do-anything sense.. | 12:57 |
| @kanzure | sorry, i'm just bitter. | 12:57 |
| jrochkind | http://journal.code4lib.org. You might find it interesting, although much of it is not going to be irrelevant to you. | 12:57 |
| nmz787 | kanzure: my name best show up in that article | 12:57 |
| nmz787 | :D | 12:57 |
| @kanzure | nmz787: you want to be identified as the individual that exposed all this? wouldn't you prefer to be anonymous. | 12:57 |
| nmz787 | :D | 12:58 |
| nmz787 | I need publications for super college | 12:58 |
| nmz787 | :D :D | 12:58 |
| jrochkind | If you're expecting people who work for libraries to break the law and/or their employers licenses and get fired and no longer work for libraries, indeed you will be dissapointed. shrug. | 12:58 |
| @kanzure | jrochkind: also, there's at least one android app in the wild that is serving as a reverse proxy for paper access. college students install the app unknowingly. | 12:58 |
| jrochkind | interesting! | 12:58 |
| nmz787 | huh | 12:58 |
| nmz787 | like its a trojan sorta? | 12:58 |
| nmz787 | i.e. in some other stupid game or something? | 12:59 |
| @kanzure | yes | 12:59 |
| nmz787 | is that what Angry Birds really is! | 12:59 |
| @kanzure | i wish | 12:59 |
| nmz787 | genius | 12:59 |
| @kanzure | actually, someone made a fake angry birds version that did a root exploit | 12:59 |
| @kanzure | so yes it's possible there might be an angry birds version floating around acting as a reverse proxy for paper access... heh | 12:59 |
| nmz787 | nice | 12:59 |
| nmz787 | sooo, I have an account with UMB now | 13:00 |
| nmz787 | no $ down | 13:00 |
| nmz787 | i just requested lib access | 13:00 |
| @kanzure | but you had to email them | 13:00 |
| nmz787 | via email from my new umb.edu email :D | 13:00 |
| @kanzure | and you don't have access yet? | 13:00 |
| @kanzure | let me know when you have paper access | 13:00 |
| nmz787 | I have computer access to their course registration | 13:00 |
| brownies | university of massachuseetts? | 13:00 |
| nmz787 | yes | 13:00 |
| nmz787 | bostoin | 13:00 |
| jrochkind | the ironic thing, as I'm sure you guys know, is how many papers (including JStor hosted papers) are available on the public internet, and findable with google scholar, and were put on the net by _professors_, who either didn't realize they were 'pirating' or didn't care. | 13:01 |
| @kanzure | sure | 13:02 |
| jrochkind | And how many of those are the _authors_ of the papers putting them up. Teh authors don't make any money from those papers, they don't care if they're on the internet. | 13:02 |
| @kanzure | a lot of the papers i look for end up in google scholar showing up as hosted by... me | 13:02 |
| jrochkind | heheh | 13:02 |
| @kanzure | because i forgot that i archived them | 13:02 |
| nmz787 | can't an author release their own pubs to direct other individuals legally? | 13:02 |
| @kanzure | no in most cases that is not legal | 13:02 |
| jrochkind | nmz787: not usually. it depends on the nature of their agreement with their publisher. | 13:02 |
| @kanzure | they usually sign over the copyrights | 13:02 |
| @kanzure | when you publish a paper, there's a huge amount of cocksucking | 13:03 |
| nmz787 | oh i thought they had the right to give it person to person | 13:03 |
| jrochkind | But "release their own pubs to direct other individuals " is different than 'put on the internet' anyway. The former, legal or not, nobody's going to notice. | 13:03 |
| nmz787 | but not post a URL | 13:03 |
| nmz787 | hmm | 13:03 |
| nmz787 | sure | 13:03 |
| @kanzure | jrochkind: iirc someone had a pdf phone home function once. it was evil. | 13:03 |
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| jrochkind | Whether you are the author or not, in the US anyway, you may be able to make a copy of a paper for a specific individual at a time, for academic/research purposes, under fair use. | 13:03 |
| jrochkind | kanzure: i didn't even know pdf could do that. | 13:03 |
| jrochkind | you MAY be able to, it's all pretty unclear legally. | 13:04 |
| nmz787 | pdf phone home? | 13:04 |
| @kanzure | i think it was possibly through a pdf malware thing | 13:04 |
| nmz787 | soo the viewer recognized desired titles if that PDF was open it got sent to a remote server? | 13:05 |
| @kanzure | no, it was a vulnerability in acrobat reader or something | 13:05 |
| @kanzure | CVE-2010-0188 | 13:06 |
| @kanzure | http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/38195/discuss | 13:06 |
| @kanzure | "Adobe Acrobat and Reader are prone to a remote code-execution vulnerability An attacker can exploit this issue to execute arbitrary code within the context of the affected application. Failed exploit attempts will result in a denial-of-service condition." | 13:06 |
| @kanzure | http://downloads.securityfocus.com/vulnerabilities/exploits/38195.py | 13:06 |
| @kanzure | CVE-2010-0188. | 13:07 |
| @kanzure | "Adobe PDF LibTiff Integer Overflow Code Execution" ah it was font related.. neat | 13:07 |
| @kanzure | oops, didn't mean to send the CVE a second time | 13:07 |
| @kanzure | i blame irssi | 13:07 |
| @kanzure | i assume the intention was to see how many times a pdf/paper was opened, and ping a remote url to register the view. | 13:12 |
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| @kanzure | fenn: well that study was mostly useless. pain is an interesting to look at, but "global affect".. meh. | 13:18 |
| @kanzure | also the targeting in that study was really poor. "uh we held it up to their head and blasted them with ultrasound".. yeah great targeting guys. | 13:21 |
| @kanzure | also, it looks like tyler received funding from khosla ventures to do transcranial ultrasound via neurotrek, inc | 13:24 |
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| strangewarp | Hmm. | 13:46 |
| strangewarp | I told someone I supported radical abundance, and they told me I should get away from Zeitgeist for a while. | 13:47 |
| strangewarp | I am getting kind of pissed off at Zeitgeist. | 13:47 |
| strangewarp | I was never a Zeitgeist person, but they seem to have co-opted some of the terms I talk about, and twisted them around this new-agey populism... | 13:48 |
| chris_99 | http://www.qualcommtricorderxprize.org/competition-details/overview | 13:51 |
| nmz787 | kanzure: umb lib access is mine | 14:04 |
| nmz787 | no $ down | 14:04 |
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| nmz787 | i registered using my normal home address | 14:04 |
| nmz787 | grr what's that journal yashgaroth was asking about | 14:06 |
| nmz787 | human gene therapy? | 14:06 |
| nmz787 | i can't tell if this is the right journal, as this PDF works with no login http://online.liebertpub.com/doi/pdfplus/10.1089/hum.2011.153 | 14:06 |
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| nmz787 | weird | 14:07 |
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| nmz787 | kanzure: can you access the first article but not the rest http://online.liebertpub.com/toc/hum/23/12 | 14:07 |
| nmz787 | oo | 14:08 |
| nmz787 | there is a green dot that means its free | 14:08 |
| nmz787 | well trying them with ezprxy gives a 404 | 14:09 |
| nmz787 | umb has access to nature protocols, which pdx doesnt | 14:11 |
| nmz787 | nice, even my RIT ezproxy doesnt have nature protocols! | 14:11 |
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| @kanzure | haha who has nature protocols then | 14:33 |
| nmz787 | UMB | 14:33 |
| @kanzure | oh oh i see | 14:33 |
| @kanzure | that's great | 14:33 |
| @kanzure | get them all | 14:33 |
| nmz787 | :D I am too innefficient to do that | 14:34 |
| juri_ | win 24 | 15:02 |
| juri_ | er. ;) | 15:02 |
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| @kanzure | "OCLC sells NetLibrary to EBSCO Publishing for $7,867,200." | 16:37 |
| @kanzure | "OCLC acquires EZproxy from Useful Utilities for $600,000." | 16:38 |
| @kanzure | http://www.librarytechnology.org/oclc.pl | 16:39 |
| brownies | only 600K? wild. | 16:42 |
| @kanzure | it was "one guy" and i guess he let himself get bought out early | 16:43 |
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| jrayhawk | https://mobile.twitter.com/zagar well, he technically exists on twitter | 16:52 |
| @kanzure | hm? | 16:52 |
| jrayhawk | the one guy | 16:53 |
| @kanzure | "At first, EZproxy would change the authority information by assigning a unique port number for each host:port combination and rewriting the URL based on this port" | 16:54 |
| @kanzure | "such as changing http://www.somedb.com/ to http://ezproxy.yourlib.org:2050/. Through this remapping, each remote web server was represented by a different port." | 16:54 |
| @kanzure | i think there's a buffer overflow exploit in ezproxy but it's not completely working yet | 16:59 |
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| yashgaroth | nmz787: the journal was current gene therapy | 17:22 |
| jrayhawk | 'we didn't read half of the papers we cite because they are behind a paywall #overlyhonestmethods' | 17:30 |
| jrayhawk | 'Before measurement, samples were kept free from contamination & if we dropped any we totally followed the 5 second rule #overlyhonestmethods' | 17:30 |
| jrayhawk | 'the eppendorf tubes were "shaken like a polaroid picture" until that part of the song ended #overlyhonestmethods' | 17:31 |
| @kanzure | sigh | 17:35 |
| @kanzure | could someone make those updates to paperbot for me? the http link detection issue is a really easy contribution to make and i'm really busy doing other things. | 17:36 |
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| Undine | i wonder if there's somekind of buy out of equipment in DIYbio/stem cell research area | 18:25 |
| Undine | like 300k worth of it | 18:25 |
| Undine | but really, it's like 3 million worth | 18:25 |
| Undine | company foreclosure. | 18:25 |
| @kanzure | huh? | 18:26 |
| @kanzure | wait a sec i know you | 18:27 |
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| @kanzure | mode -q *!*@64.235.97.82 | 19:43 |
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| @kanzure | "He has since been surpassed by Steve Woodmore, who achieved a rate of 637 wpm" | 19:58 |
| @kanzure | "According to Woodmore, he first discovered his talent at 7, when tasked with reciting long texts as punishment for being too talkative in school." | 19:58 |
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| jrayhawk | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAbngwUgSW0 | 20:06 |
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| @kanzure | jrayhawk: what si it? | 20:20 |
| @kanzure | is. | 20:20 |
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| nmz787 | kanzure: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/08/overly-honest-methods-twitter_n_2435364.html | 20:46 |
| @kanzure | yes jrayhawk posted some | 20:47 |
| nmz787 | yes | 20:54 |
| nmz787 | and you asked him "what is it" | 20:55 |
| @kanzure | ah okay | 20:55 |
| @kanzure | no i think i said 'sigh' | 20:55 |
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| nmz787 | ahh he also posted a youtube link | 21:07 |
| yashgaroth | nmz787: any luck with current gene therapy via UMB? | 21:07 |
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| yashgaroth | and human gene therapy as well actually, since pdx doesn't seem to let me access it | 21:12 |
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| delinquentme | does anyone happen to have a usenet membership in here? | 21:58 |
| delinquentme | Models: Attract Women Through Honesty mark manson | 21:58 |
| delinquentme | ^ looking for this | 21:58 |
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| @kanzure | so i'm confused | 23:48 |
| @kanzure | yashgaroth: can you just link him to the things, so that he can check? | 23:48 |
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| --- Log closed Wed Jan 09 00:00:25 2013 | ||
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