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| eleitl | morning, gentlemen. | 01:42 |
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| delinquentmee__ | kanzure, | 06:39 |
| delinquentmee__ | i dont know how to save humanity | 06:39 |
| delinquentmee__ | =[ | 06:39 |
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| eudoxia | "everyone thinks about changing the world, nobody thinks about changing himself" | 06:45 |
| eudoxia | quoting tolstoy, that's another watchlist for me | 06:45 |
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| eleitl | if you want to save humanity, solve the energy, food and resource problem. | 07:28 |
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| chris_99 | get making that fusion reactor in your back garden! | 07:32 |
| eleitl | There's already a fusion reactor in your back garden. | 07:35 |
| archels | and/or produce fewer offspring | 07:35 |
| eleitl | Even with wireless power delivery. | 07:35 |
| * archels runs | 07:35 | |
| chris_99 | haha eleitl, it's so far away though | 07:36 |
| eleitl | Solar output is 4 MT/s, with Earth intercepting 2 kg/s. That's two Hz of Tsar Bombas. | 07:36 |
| * nsh blinks | 07:36 | |
| eleitl | Or 10^5 in excess of what we need right now. | 07:36 |
| nsh | may i borrow that eleitl? (two Hz of Tsar Bombas.) | 07:37 |
| chris_99 | hmm, i wonder if fusion may produce energy a lot cheaper than the amount of solar panels you'd need for the same power output | 07:37 |
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| eleitl | sure, nsh | 07:37 |
| nsh | i would recommend avoiding language constructs such as "produce energy" | 07:37 |
| chris_99 | why | 07:38 |
| eleitl | it's 2 kHz of Hiroshima/Nagasaki | 07:38 |
| nsh | as they reinforce poor grasp of physics | 07:38 |
| chris_99 | it's perfectly valid nsh imo | 07:38 |
| eleitl | chris_99, show me a working fusion reactor first | 07:38 |
| nsh | if you're thinking about it as being produced, you may possibly not be thinking about it in the most effective fashion | 07:38 |
| chris_99 | even fission probably extracts then, energy cheaper than solar i bet | 07:39 |
| nsh | in fact, if you're not thinking about entropy, then you're doin' it wrong | 07:39 |
| eleitl | you bet wrongly, chris_99 | 07:39 |
| eleitl | besides, we're talking about sustainable stuff, not something which peaks by 2040, if scaled up | 07:39 |
| chris_99 | last time i checked solar panels where exceptionally expensive | 07:39 |
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| eleitl | you sound american, chris_99 | 07:40 |
| chris_99 | i'm not | 07:40 |
| chris_99 | for your interest | 07:40 |
| eleitl | ok, did you do the total lifecycle accounting of PV production? | 07:40 |
| eleitl | as compared to fossil? | 07:40 |
| eleitl | or nuclear? | 07:40 |
| chris_99 | nope i'm merely hypothesising, i'd like some evidence to the contrary though | 07:41 |
| chris_99 | also what about countries where it's not especially sunny | 07:41 |
| eleitl | The German energy grid already is at 21.9% renewable, 135 TWh total. | 07:41 |
| eleitl | Wind was 45 TWh, biomass 41 TWh, photovoltaics 28.5 TWh and | 07:41 |
| eleitl | hydro 20.5 TWh. | 07:42 |
| eleitl | These numbers are for 2012. | 07:42 |
| chris_99 | how much nuclear does germany use? | 07:42 |
| eleitl | Less than solar. They switched off most of their nuclear. | 07:43 |
| eleitl | I think nuclear right now is effectively at 3%, if all things are factored in. | 07:43 |
| chris_99 | intriguing | 07:44 |
| eleitl | solar is very good to peak demand matching, which happens to be almost exactly noon in Germany | 07:44 |
| eleitl | elsewhere, the peak might be a bit off | 07:44 |
| eleitl | gas turbine peak plants will probably have to be subsidized next, as they almost always idle | 07:45 |
| eleitl | what I hope to see is turning peak into hydrogen and methane, via Sabatier | 07:47 |
| eleitl | German natural gas grid can currently buffer 3 months worth | 07:47 |
| chris_99 | it looks like france may use a majority of nuclear | 07:47 |
| eleitl | France's Hollande has decided to limit nuclear fraction | 07:48 |
| eleitl | reason is that nuclear doesn't work, even in France | 07:48 |
| chris_99 | why doesn't it work? | 07:48 |
| eleitl | Because it is a very expensive, not sustainable form of energy production which is fraught with severe problems. | 07:49 |
| eleitl | e.g. France imports electricity in the summer, mostly from Germany | 07:49 |
| eleitl | (it also does in the winter, but because the French have electric heating) | 07:49 |
| chris_99 | according to wiki ". In 2003, it produced 22% of the European Union's electricity, primarily from nuclear power: " | 07:49 |
| eleitl | it does it because the reactors have to be shut down during heat waves | 07:50 |
| eleitl | This is 2013, not 2003. | 07:50 |
| eleitl | The French nuclear industry has a bad work safety track. | 07:50 |
| eleitl | They also have demonstrated extreme cost overruns in their latest two construction projects. | 07:51 |
| eleitl | And so on, and so forth. | 07:51 |
| eleitl | See e.g. http://reneweconomy.com.au/2012/wind-energy-now-cheaper-than-nuclear-in-france-92181 | 07:52 |
| superkuh | Since no one has mentioned it explicitly yet: liquid fluoride thorium fission reactors with distributed solar seems to be the solution to me. | 07:52 |
| eleitl | superkuh, show me a working alternative fuelcycle breeder, then we talk | 07:53 |
| * nsh frowns when people talk about "the" solution | 07:53 | |
| eleitl | we can rule out certain solutions | 07:53 |
| eleitl | e.g. biofuels will never amount to much | 07:53 |
| eleitl | in fact, the 41 TWh biomass of 2012 in Germany will hopefully not be exceeded, and scaled back | 07:54 |
| nsh | says a biofuel | 07:54 |
| nsh | (but agree) | 07:54 |
| eleitl | people have been actually used as fuel in crematoriums, in concentration camps | 07:55 |
| nsh | ultimately it's all solar | 07:55 |
| chris_99 | yeah thorium sounds interesting superkuh there was a post on it recently http://rein.pk/thorium-reactors/ | 07:55 |
| chris_99 | on HN | 07:55 |
| eleitl | even fissibles is of stellar origin | 07:55 |
| * nsh nods | 07:55 | |
| eleitl | thorium sounds interesting, until you look at it in detail | 07:55 |
| eleitl | then, it stops sounding so interesting | 07:55 |
| superkuh | Can you expand on that, eleitl? | 07:55 |
| nsh | i have a rule of thumb | 07:55 |
| superkuh | I've been looking at it for a couple years now. | 07:55 |
| superkuh | But I guess I'm blind. | 07:55 |
| nsh | "if it's so amazing, why aren't you rich and laughing at me instead of trying to convince me of things?" | 07:56 |
| chris_99 | what?! | 07:56 |
| eleitl | thorium efforts are not new | 07:56 |
| eleitl | there have been many of them, all across the world, and so far all have failed | 07:56 |
| superkuh | Are you talking about solid fuel thorium? | 07:56 |
| eleitl | if you look at the US MSR pilot, then it you'll see it did not run on the thorium fuel cycle | 07:57 |
| eleitl | it was a toy, and it fed off the uranium fuel cycle | 07:57 |
| eleitl | show me a working MSR Th breeder | 07:57 |
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| superkuh | Okay. But what you said was untrue. | 07:57 |
| eleitl | what was untrue, superkuh? | 07:57 |
| superkuh | "<eleitl> there have been many of them, all across the world, and so far all have failed" | 07:57 |
| eleitl | yes, all thorium fuel cycle reactors have not resulted in a working design | 07:58 |
| eleitl | all of them have problems | 07:58 |
| eleitl | the Chinese seem to think that the THTR shutdown was a fluke | 07:58 |
| eleitl | they're going to learn it the hard way | 07:58 |
| ParahSai1in | show me a working uranium reactor 80 years ago | 07:59 |
| eleitl | they're not working even now | 07:59 |
| eleitl | you probably didn't get the memo yet | 07:59 |
| ParahSai1in | i really must have missed that memo | 08:00 |
| eleitl | they don't make prime rib pitchblende anymore | 08:00 |
| eleitl | show me a working uranium fuel cycle breeder, and then we talk | 08:00 |
| nsh | .wik natural uranium nuclear reactor | 08:00 |
| yoleaux | "A natural nuclear fission reactor is a uranium deposit where self-sustaining nuclear chain reactions have occurred. This can be examined by analysis of isotope ratios." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_nuclear_fission_reactor | 08:00 |
| ParahSai1in | i wonder what they're actually doing in that cooling tower in bay city | 08:00 |
| eleitl | yes, that was 2 gigayears ago | 08:00 |
| eleitl | back then U-235 ratio was about twice of today | 08:01 |
| ParahSai1in | probably thats where the stargate is, and nuclear reactor is just cover for it | 08:01 |
| eleitl | now, it's either graphite, or CANDU | 08:01 |
| nsh | CANDU? | 08:01 |
| nsh | oh | 08:01 |
| nsh | -oh | 08:01 |
| nsh | ? | 08:01 |
| eleitl | canadian heavy water moderated reactor | 08:01 |
| eleitl | Canadians have plenty of hydro, eh | 08:01 |
| nsh | ok | 08:01 |
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| eleitl | Hence electrolysis, and heavy water up the wazoo | 08:01 |
| eleitl | Just as Norway, when it got raided by ze Germans | 08:02 |
| eleitl | stole two tons of heavy water | 08:02 |
| nsh | they crossed more than two tons of heavy water just to get there | 08:02 |
| chris_99 | "France is the world's largest net exporter of electricity due to its very low cost of generation, and gains over EUR 3 billion per year from this." seems interesting to me | 08:02 |
| superkuh | All thorium is fertile. There's no need for for "prime rib". The amount of fissiles needed to start is not significant compared to current usage rates. I acknowledge that online chemical reprocessing in a two fluid reactor has not been demonstrated and that is is a truly hard problem. But I don't think there are any indications that it is infeasible. I have great hope for the Chinese project. Time will tell. | 08:02 |
| eleitl | "very low cost of generation" <-- bullshit | 08:03 |
| chris_99 | if it still gains 3 billion, can't be that much bullshit ;) | 08:03 |
| nsh | well, it's clearly low cost relative to what people will pay for it | 08:03 |
| eleitl | the chinese project is not MSR, superkuh | 08:03 |
| ParahSai1in | theres nothing fundamental in physics preventing fission from being an abundant source of energy | 08:03 |
| eleitl | it's the plain old graphite pile | 08:03 |
| ParahSai1in | just politics | 08:03 |
| superkuh | eleitl, that is false. | 08:03 |
| eleitl | ParaSailin, sorry, you have no clue | 08:03 |
| chris_99 | eleitl, that's constructive | 08:04 |
| superkuh | I mean, I've watched ~50 videos of their post-docs and profs talking about it at various conferences. | 08:04 |
| eleitl | the Chinese project I heard was a graphite pile reactor | 08:04 |
| ParahSai1in | i guess i have no clue | 08:04 |
| eleitl | they say sometimes about MSR but I'm aware of an actual Th cycle MSR yet | 08:04 |
| superkuh | Even the head of the Chinese academy of sciences explicitly stated there is a huge MSR project. | 08:04 |
| superkuh | For thorium. | 08:04 |
| eleitl | do you have an URL for that, superkuh? | 08:04 |
| superkuh | I'll go grab his spech off youtube for you. | 08:04 |
| eleitl | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molten_salt_reactor#Chinese_Thorium_MSR_project | 08:05 |
| eleitl | Chinese Thorium MSR project | 08:05 |
| eleitl | Under the direction of Jiang Mianheng, The People’s Republic of China has initiated a research project in thorium molten-salt reactor technology. It was formally announced at the Chinese Academy of Sciences (CAS) annual conference in January 2011. Its ultimate target is to develop a pilot scale thorium based molten salt nuclear reactor in 20 years.[15][20][21] The proposed completion date for a test 2 MW pebble bed solid thorium and molten salt | 08:05 |
| * eleitl is not impressed | 08:05 | |
| eleitl | wake me up when they have a 1 GW Th MSR | 08:06 |
| superkuh | You can be not impressed. But you are obviously wrong. | 08:06 |
| superkuh | Don't move the goalposts. | 08:06 |
| ParahSai1in | what exactly is your motivated cognition here eleitl? | 08:06 |
| eleitl | superkuh is wrong | 08:06 |
| eleitl | see, I can also generate useless test | 08:06 |
| ParahSai1in | solar only future? | 08:06 |
| ParahSai1in | ludditism? | 08:06 |
| eleitl | I have no interest discussing this topic, sorry | 08:07 |
| chris_99 | haha | 08:07 |
| eleitl | been there, done that, got the T | 08:07 |
| superkuh | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLX8jCKL9I4&list=SPKfir74hxWhM6oHIkO7YkezWAue0iQETw | 08:11 |
| superkuh | I've watched this one, the first half is pretty much all politics but it does confirm what I've said. | 08:12 |
| eleitl | thanks for the video. I will not discuss this topic anymore. | 08:13 |
| superkuh | Okay. | 08:13 |
| chris_99 | would ITER be one of the first fusion reactors? | 08:16 |
| eleitl | fusion, as in break-even? | 08:16 |
| eleitl | everybody can do fusion | 08:17 |
| eleitl | trouble is do cost-effective sustainable fusion | 08:17 |
| eleitl | Tsar Bombas converted 1 kg of matter to radiation, and most of it was from fusion | 08:17 |
| chris_99 | i'm talking nuclear electric power | 08:18 |
| eleitl | Hirsch-Farnsworth produce enough neutrons that you don't want to stand next to them for very long | 08:18 |
| eleitl | ITER (which looks like they killed it) won't produce electric power | 08:18 |
| chris_99 | "Success is widely anticipated and there are already plans afoot to build a "demonstration power plant" to start operating in the 2030s." which sounds interesting | 08:18 |
| eleitl | 2030 is a very interesting date | 08:18 |
| superkuh | Dense plasma focus already has better figures of merit for energy in/ neutrons out than ITER or the laser inertial confinment projects. But it is sort of fringe. | 08:18 |
| eleitl | because we're currently at peak overshoot, and there should be plenty of die-off by 2030 | 08:19 |
| eleitl | whatever fixes you need, they need to be 80% done by 2050 | 08:19 |
| eleitl | which is TW/year, or 3 TWp/year substitution rate for the next 40 years | 08:19 |
| eleitl | we're currently at 30 GWp, so do the math | 08:20 |
| eleitl | 30 GWp/year, I mean | 08:20 |
| eleitl | 2030 looks significant due to http://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/Looking-Back-on-the-Limits-of-Growth.html | 08:22 |
| eleitl | you see food is slightly off, so that might shift, but probably not by much | 08:22 |
| eleitl | the next 20 years should tell us whether the model is completely wrong, or not | 08:23 |
| chris_99 | seen this superkuh http://prometheusfusionperfection.com/ i found that quite fascinating | 08:23 |
| superkuh | Yes. | 08:24 |
| eleitl | what happened to that polywell pilot? | 08:24 |
| superkuh | The emc2 polywell is still getting funded by the navy if I remember correctly. | 08:24 |
| eleitl | did it deliver? | 08:24 |
| superkuh | It achieved the navy's goals, whatever that means. | 08:25 |
| eleitl | I think tokamaks are quite dead, so you need something different | 08:25 |
| eleitl | especially if you don't have to do tritium breeding as well | 08:25 |
| eleitl | that could be a game changer, but I have not seen any evidence for it so far | 08:26 |
| eleitl | meanwhile, I'll put some 0.3 kWp up this spring, and will play around with it | 08:26 |
| eleitl | it's too bad there are no cheap proton membrane electrolyzers | 08:27 |
| eleitl | no reason why http://www.ginerinc.com/popup.photo.php?p=LWH2&n=2&s=products wouldn't be dirt cheap, if mass produced | 08:28 |
| eleitl | electrocatalysts needs not necessarily be platinum group | 08:28 |
| ParahSai1in | nafion is expensive | 08:28 |
| eleitl | we need a lot of money dumped into electrochemistry | 08:29 |
| eleitl | I'm very worried is that there is almost zero research into vital areas in the old West | 08:30 |
| eleitl | I'm not sure Asia can compensate for our lack | 08:31 |
| eleitl | slack, even | 08:31 |
| ParahSai1in | looks like their cheap alternative to nafion uses palladium and ruthenium | 08:32 |
| eleitl | plants use magnesium | 08:33 |
| eleitl | there is no magic in specific elements | 08:33 |
| eleitl | there are frequently ways to substitute something which was not deemend substitutable | 08:33 |
| ParahSai1in | im giving you a reason why http://www.ginerinc.com/popup.photo.php?p=LWH2&n=2&s=products would not be dirt cheap, if mass produced | 08:34 |
| eleitl | well, yeah, but the actual reason is that these are unicates | 08:34 |
| eleitl | not mass-produced | 08:34 |
| ParahSai1in | and also made out of precious metals | 08:34 |
| eleitl | the price of nafion or even platinum has much less to do with that | 08:34 |
| ParahSai1in | mostly the precious metals | 08:35 |
| eleitl | look at the price of commercial high pressure units | 08:35 |
| eleitl | at that price they'd be better made from solid platinum | 08:35 |
| eleitl | doesn't compute | 08:36 |
| ParahSai1in | a high pressure what unit? | 08:38 |
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| eleitl | high pressure electrolysis | 08:43 |
| eleitl | to simplify a pressure assembly | 08:44 |
| eleitl | you don't need a compressor, and can put the unit inside the pressure tank | 08:44 |
| ParahSai1in | whats the significance of electrolysis? | 08:45 |
| ParahSai1in | to current topic? | 08:46 |
| eleitl | if the current topic is saving the humanity, then hydrogen from electrolysis is a key factor | 08:46 |
| ParahSai1in | why? | 08:47 |
| eleitl | you need hydrogen for air nitrogen fixation, Sabatier, and the like | 08:47 |
| eleitl | current peak production can already overload the grid, and you need a technology compatible with natural gas | 08:47 |
| eleitl | enter hydrogen, and methane | 08:47 |
| ParahSai1in | i think there's plenty of cheap hydrogen left to be made from coal | 08:48 |
| eleitl | um, peak coal is 2030 | 08:48 |
| eleitl | there's nothing particularly cheap about a resource on the way out | 08:48 |
| ParahSai1in | there's hundreds of years of coal left | 08:49 |
| eleitl | there an infinity of years of coal left, it's just going to stay where it is | 08:49 |
| eleitl | EROEI | 08:49 |
| eleitl | you're looking for peak, not complete exhaustion | 08:50 |
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| ParahSai1in | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal#World_coal_reserves | 08:50 |
| eleitl | http://www.theoildrum.com/node/8064 | 08:51 |
| eleitl | it might be sooner, because due to peak oil especially developing economies have turned to coal to compensate | 08:52 |
| eleitl | peak oil was 2006, in case you also missed that memo | 08:52 |
| ParahSai1in | you're kind of an asshole aren't you | 08:53 |
| eleitl | always happy to be of service | 08:53 |
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| ParahSai1in | i said nothing about oil | 08:53 |
| eleitl | I mentioned oil because peak oil *might* accelerate peak coal, due to compensation | 08:54 |
| eleitl | We don't see it in the data yet | 08:54 |
| eleitl | The next problem on the table is food. | 08:56 |
| eleitl | Energy is closely linked to food, so that one's up next. | 08:56 |
| eudoxia | because mechanized agriculture requires oil? | 08:57 |
| eleitl | Yes. Fertilizer, pesticide, fuel. | 08:57 |
| eleitl | US 10:1 of fossil energy input for each food calorie output | 08:57 |
| eudoxia | i'm counting on OSE and 3d printers to save us all | 08:58 |
| eudoxia | you know, somehow | 08:58 |
| eleitl | I sure hope you're right, eudoxia. | 08:58 |
| ParahSai1in | develop thorium and then fusion, and then food is solved | 08:58 |
| eleitl | Because hungry people tend to do very stupid things. | 08:58 |
| eleitl | ParahSailin, have you seen the population curve, according to World3? | 08:59 |
| eleitl | a TW/year is about 1000 new nuclear reactors, annually. | 08:59 |
| eleitl | for the next 40 years | 09:00 |
| eleitl | plus electrification, plus infrastructure retooling | 09:00 |
| eleitl | as is, our infrastructure is already going to shit | 09:00 |
| ParahSai1in | 80 years ago, thermal coal reactors were expensive | 09:00 |
| eleitl | the volume of the shift bio-fossil was an order of magnitude smaller, and it took half a century | 09:01 |
| eleitl | plus, the world was a different place back then | 09:01 |
| ParahSai1in | nuclear engineering is solvable | 09:02 |
| eleitl | it might be. Just do it, then. | 09:02 |
| eleitl | Or pay somebody for doing it. | 09:02 |
| eleitl | See any of that? | 09:02 |
| ParahSai1in | any of what? | 09:02 |
| eleitl | Of the work, and money to pay that work. | 09:03 |
| * eleitl doesn't | 09:03 | |
| ParahSai1in | politics | 09:03 |
| eleitl | it might well be, but it doesn't matter what the reason is | 09:03 |
| ParahSai1in | i think that political problems are easier to solve than metaphysical problems | 09:04 |
| eleitl | You can assume that China and India will be trying to solve these problems. | 09:04 |
| eleitl | Europe and North America won't. | 09:04 |
| eleitl | Sorry if I didn't manage to cheer you up. | 09:07 |
| rigel | none of this shit is going to matter because were all going to be migrating due to crazy weather events | 09:07 |
| eleitl | weather will likely improve where I sit actually | 09:08 |
| eleitl | I'm on the right side of the Alps | 09:08 |
| rigel | cant build infrastructure like a thorium reactor if your labor force is fleeing your country for lack of food or water or opressive heat or superstorms | 09:08 |
| rigel | and if you could you still need the infra to get the power distributed out | 09:09 |
| eleitl | you're completely correct, rigel | 09:09 |
| eleitl | you didn't even mention wars | 09:09 |
| eleitl | because there will be plenty | 09:10 |
| eleitl | R&D kind dries up during wars, for some strange reason | 09:10 |
| rigel | for some things anyway | 09:10 |
| eleitl | the next world war won't be a lot like the last ones | 09:11 |
| eleitl | or even regional conflicts, which turn a tiny bit nuclear | 09:11 |
| * eudoxia is lucky to live in the least likely to be nuked region of the world | 09:12 | |
| eudoxia | unless those argentinians try to take the falklands and the fallout floats up to uruguay | 09:13 |
| eleitl | oz and south america should do quite well | 09:13 |
| eudoxia | unless australia continues to burn | 09:14 |
| eleitl | it is a lot easier to terraform australia than the Mooon | 09:14 |
| eudoxia | new zealand seems like a nice place to put a cryonics facility on | 09:15 |
| eleitl | I was thinking about how to reduce running costs due to cryogenics | 09:17 |
| eleitl | and to harden facilities about disruption | 09:17 |
| eleitl | Brian said that they did a thermal analysis of large soft vacuum assemblies way back, and found it a wash against Bigfoots | 09:18 |
| eleitl | I'm not entirely sure about that | 09:18 |
| eleitl | Just refills blow some 20% of LN into air | 09:18 |
| eleitl | and most of loss goes through the dewar neck, so you have to eliminate that | 09:18 |
| eleitl | so it seems to have to scale up, and use a labyrinthine path inside, so you'll need active agents for insertion and removal | 09:19 |
| eleitl | electroheated suits with rebreathers, or robots | 09:19 |
| eleitl | Brian said that was unnecessary drama a la Darwin. Maybe. | 09:19 |
| eudoxia | haha | 09:20 |
| eudoxia | like how a cryo org needs to be able to "weather a war that might last centuries"? | 09:20 |
| eleitl | it sure would suck if a guy passes out inside, and you have to send somebody in to rescue him | 09:20 |
| eleitl | I think if there's a disruption for longer than 10 years you're fucked | 09:20 |
| eleitl | so you need a facility that can cover a decade, with a dedicated caretaker | 09:21 |
| eleitl | beyond that, it's overengineering | 09:21 |
| eleitl | relying on steadiness of biweekly LN refills for a century is pure insanity | 09:21 |
| * eleitl loves the smell of DMSO and rotting human flesh in the morning | 09:22 | |
| eleitl | it smells like... defeat | 09:22 |
| eudoxia | it would be nice if you could just get an ln2 plant, a few pumps and solar panels and let it run for a few centuries | 09:22 |
| eudoxia | but you need some form of automatics, or human caretaker | 09:23 |
| eleitl | there are commercial systems which run at 2-5 kW and cover a Bigfoot boiloff | 09:23 |
| eleitl | small ones, they use nitrogen separators, so it's not liquid air rectification | 09:23 |
| eleitl | they still need to be serviced periodically | 09:24 |
| eleitl | unattended, you need to have a no movable parts system running on geothermal gradient | 09:24 |
| eleitl | that would work, but it would be large scale engineering, and really expensive | 09:24 |
| eleitl | no movable parts = no solid movable parts. liquids would move. | 09:25 |
| eudoxia | of course | 09:26 |
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| eleitl | fuckit, I missed exporting some hosts | 09:29 |
| eleitl | brb | 09:29 |
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| @kanzure | oh jgilbert was around | 09:33 |
| eleitl | hi kanzure | 09:34 |
| @kanzure | yesss? | 09:35 |
| eleitl | just saying hi. need to export a couple hosts. | 09:35 |
| eleitl | built an all-in-one zfs system earlier today | 09:36 |
| eleitl | you should look into something like that when you have time | 09:37 |
| eleitl | unfortunately, I goofed up and forgot to specify not to use a SAS backplane | 09:38 |
| eleitl | hackerspaces ML looks fucked. they're discussing gender issues now. | 09:53 |
| eleitl | that won't end well. | 09:53 |
| eleitl | now I need 20 min to kill, and nobody's around | 09:55 |
| eudoxia | what is "ML" in this context? | 09:57 |
| eleitl | mailing list | 09:57 |
| eudoxia | a place? | 09:57 |
| eudoxia | oh facepalm | 09:58 |
| eleitl | oh, yes | 09:58 |
| eleitl | the gender trolls will be descending on them en masse | 09:58 |
| eudoxia | kanzure delete the last couple lines from the logs please | 09:58 |
| eudoxia | oh the shame | 09:58 |
| @kanzure | eudoxia: you will bare your shame for 2 years, then i will consider deleting it | 09:59 |
| @kanzure | bear? | 09:59 |
| eleitl | bore | 09:59 |
| eudoxia | bear | 09:59 |
| eleitl | pedo? | 09:59 |
| eudoxia | lol | 10:00 |
| @kanzure | yes that gender discussion is just going to implode | 10:00 |
| eleitl | they *might* have nicked just in time... | 10:00 |
| eleitl | that | 10:00 |
| @kanzure | eleitl: what's on the agenda today? | 10:00 |
| eleitl | countdown to weekend, cryo meeting tomorrow at my place/lab | 10:01 |
| eleitl | do you know how to weld stainless? | 10:01 |
| @kanzure | not yet | 10:01 |
| @kanzure | some others in here do | 10:01 |
| eleitl | we've got a liquid mixer, which is shittily welded | 10:01 |
| @kanzure | fenn: you are needed :( | 10:02 |
| eleitl | I don't think you need argon, but you probably need special electrodes | 10:03 |
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| eleitl | eudoxia is actually from uruguay? | 10:03 |
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| @kanzure | yes | 10:04 |
| eleitl | wow. | 10:04 |
| @kanzure | i mean, if he's faking it, he has been highly consistent about it for multiple years | 10:04 |
| eleitl | Big city? | 10:05 |
| @kanzure | no clue | 10:05 |
| eleitl | I was wondering what distant hackers do. | 10:05 |
| eleitl | Whether they're just isolated, or build their own little local activities. | 10:05 |
| @kanzure | he likes lisp and scheme. a lot. | 10:05 |
| eleitl | he has good taste | 10:06 |
| eleitl | local activities = local groups | 10:06 |
| @kanzure | we have a few people from czech (sanky, pasky) | 10:06 |
| @kanzure | (chido) | 10:07 |
| eleitl | to my shame, I've never gone to Prague yet | 10:07 |
| @kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/wiki/diybio/groups | 10:07 |
| eleitl | Mathias Bock? | 10:08 |
| @kanzure | where? what? | 10:08 |
| eleitl | he's mentioned as a contact for Munich | 10:09 |
| @kanzure | Matthias Bock <matthias.bock@hu-berlin.de>: [diybio, openspectrometer.com, open source hardware, spectrometers, spectrophotometers, "person:nathan mccorkle"] | 10:09 |
| @kanzure | Matthias Bock <matthias.bock@hu-berlin.de>: [diybio-berlin, diybio] | 10:10 |
| @kanzure | Matthias Bock <matthias.bock@hu-berlin.de>: [open manufacturing, diybio, 3d printing, lemoncurry] | 10:10 |
| eleitl | he's in Berlin? | 10:10 |
| @kanzure | i think so | 10:10 |
| @kanzure | guess i should fix that, oops | 10:10 |
| eleitl | I think my saturation point with email is reached | 10:12 |
| eleitl | time to start pruning lists | 10:12 |
| gnusha | https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=56fb4dc1 Bryan Bishop: fix diybio-berlin contact deets | 10:13 |
| * eleitl is off to see the wizard | 10:15 | |
| eleitl | catch you laters | 10:16 |
| @kanzure | night | 10:16 |
| eleitl | n8 | 10:16 |
| * pasky doesn't feel distant ;-) | 10:20 | |
| ParahSai1in | does google books give everyone identical preview pages? | 10:22 |
| @kanzure | to my knowledge no | 10:22 |
| @kanzure | i remember fenn was testing that at one point for reassembling a book from the previews | 10:22 |
| ParahSai1in | it would be cool to have a p2p network to scrape pages and assemble, but that backdoor would be trivial for google to fix | 10:24 |
| ParahSai1in | paperbot: http://books.google.com/books?id=4niZl6Qn2SsC&pg=PA4&img=1&zoom=3&hl=en&sig=ACfU3U2iePXUSH4A7ftpjCul51ANUumYQQ&w=685 | 10:30 |
| paperbot | no translator available, raw dump: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/97630dbf3506560317498bd1c6673660.txt | 10:30 |
| @kanzure | "3d printable object search engine" http://www.fabforall.com/ | 10:57 |
| @kanzure | too bad they don't have parametric search or something useful | 10:58 |
| delinquentmee__ | where buy 505 long pass filter? | 11:01 |
| delinquentmee__ | nmz787, | 11:01 |
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| ParahSai1in | really? "touch finished.txt.tmp && mv finished.txt.tmp finished.txt" | 12:13 |
| @kanzure | finished.txt.tmp might already exist | 12:13 |
| ParahSai1in | nah, they just "$(TOUCH) $(SAFE_TARGET)" which expands to that | 12:22 |
| ParahSai1in | not super redundant i guess | 12:23 |
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| nmz787 | so why don't we just email these folks directly with a link to sign up for the google group? http://diybio.org/safety/biosafety-advisory/ | 13:41 |
| @kanzure | yeah, i don't know | 13:42 |
| @kanzure | i think that would make sense | 13:42 |
| nmz787 | called one of the listed ppl | 13:44 |
| nmz787 | left a msg | 13:45 |
| nmz787 | why does the diybio descript obscure that 'univrsity' she works for, google immediately tells me its uPitt | 13:45 |
| @kanzure | it seems a little separated.. like these people couldn't be bothered to just discuss things openly? | 13:46 |
| @kanzure | why should safety get the boot | 13:47 |
| @kanzure | nmz787: you should bring those issues up on the list | 13:51 |
| nmz787 | kanzure: how do you know Randall A. Gordon | 13:51 |
| nmz787 | kanzure: yeah i made a post | 13:51 |
| @kanzure | randallgorden was a user in here for a while | 13:52 |
| ParahSai1in | paperbot: http://www.springerlink.com/index/081317611K3170U3.pdf | 13:54 |
| paperbot | no translator available, raw dump: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/ccbc84341fc1d5eca5cdb934037f29c8.txt | 13:55 |
| nmz787 | do you know this guy kanzure https://plus.google.com/u/0/105872806106213007611/posts?cfem=1 | 13:55 |
| @kanzure | no | 13:55 |
| nmz787 | "Those are fantastic cases, and a great option for the vast majority of Nokias Lumia 820 customers. But in addition to that, we are going to release 3D templates, case specs, recommended materials and best practiceseverything someone versed in 3D printing needs to print their own custom Lumia 820 case. We refer to these files and documents collectively as a 3D-printing Development Kit, or 3DK for short" | 13:57 |
| @kanzure | yes they posted some stl files | 13:59 |
| ParahSai1in | paperbot: http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/0926-6690(95)00029-C | 13:59 |
| paperbot | no translator available, raw dump: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/7825715341c79551bbc50d9a7799589.txt | 13:59 |
| ParahSai1in | paperbot: http://pdn.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=MiamiImageURL&_cid=271144&_user=1694017&_pii=092666909500029C&_check=y&_origin=article&_zone=toolbar&_coverDate=1995--31&view=c&originContentFamily=serial&wchp=dGLbVlV-zSkzV&md5=fb0703b544518c3db67e27556b9de0dd&pid=1-s2.0-092666909500029C-main.pdf | 14:00 |
| paperbot | no translator available, raw dump: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/9a187cd05989cd616986c3601b897837.pdf | 14:00 |
| @kanzure | paperbot should try via multiple proxies before giving up | 14:02 |
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| @kanzure | ParahSai1in: here's the springerlink one, http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/Thermal%20stability%20and%20impact%20and%20flexural%20properties%20of%20epoxy%20resins-epoxidized%20caster%20oil-nano-caco3%20ternary%20systems.pdf | 14:06 |
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| @kanzure | cpopell: welcome back | 14:10 |
| cpopell | Supposed to have a meeting with xhonk. | 14:10 |
| cpopell | WHen's the last time you see eud around? | 14:10 |
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| cpopell | *saw | 14:10 |
| @kanzure | a few hours | 14:10 |
| cpopell | Hmm. I'll camp out here till I see him again. | 14:11 |
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| ParahSai1in | kanzure: thansk | 14:17 |
| cpopell | Swartz hung out here from time to time, didn't he? My condolences to anyone who knew him. | 14:17 |
| sbp | thanks | 14:18 |
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| @kanzure | rvca: hello | 14:36 |
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| @kanzure | who was it in here that has a data hand keyboard? was that JayDugger? | 15:43 |
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| @kanzure | "One [DataHand] worker achieved 90 wpm in less than an hour and others have achieved their flat keyboard speed in a couple of days to several days." | 15:47 |
| @kanzure | this design doesn't make sense to me: http://www.dustyneuron.com/fingerworks/images/layouts/LP_silver_QWERTY_sm.jpg | 15:54 |
| @kanzure | in this one, you have to move your right hand off of the keys to the arrow keys | 15:54 |
| @kanzure | backspace/space being easily accessible is nice | 15:54 |
| @kanzure | and home/end/page up/page down are also not as easily accessible. in my experience most function keys are rarely used, why wouldn't they just put the useful stuff in the middle where f1-f9 are? | 15:55 |
| joehot | datahands are cool if you type like a robot | 16:01 |
| joehot | any design that separates the keys doesnt account for the fact that you can move your hands around | 16:02 |
| joehot | if your hands were glued to the keyboard like then it would be extremely uncomfortable. but did anyone really learn to type that way? | 16:03 |
| joehot | like they contend* | 16:03 |
| @kanzure | here's someone who wrote an algorithm to search for alternative keyboard layouts: | 16:04 |
| @kanzure | http://arcavia.com/kyle/Projects/ProgrammerKeyboard.html | 16:04 |
| @kanzure | his cost function might need tweaking though | 16:04 |
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| @kanzure | "This was a humongous waste of time. The program to do the analysis is about 700 lines of code, and went though about 3 iterations. I am most disappointed by the lack of benefit offered by a more efficient layout; even when considering a purely optimized layout you only get 21% savings over Qwerty." | 16:06 |
| @kanzure | but i think his method looks a little suspicious, he doesn't seem to account for "reaching" or "reach paths" really | 16:07 |
| @kanzure | and why would you assume rows? | 16:08 |
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| @kanzure | yashgaroth: hi | 16:13 |
| yashgaroth | yo | 16:13 |
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| @kanzure | readcube is distributing custom javascript to different academic publishers | 16:35 |
| @kanzure | http://onlinelibrarystatic.wiley.com/js/wol.readcube.js | 16:36 |
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| @kanzure | athens has an xss vulnerability | 16:41 |
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| abetusk | evening | 17:11 |
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| @kanzure | underscor: thanks for the "Show n entries" dropdown, it helps | 19:28 |
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| JayDugger | Good evening, everyone. | 20:26 |
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| juri_ | hio. :) | 21:20 |
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| @kanzure | you guys are boring :( | 22:41 |
| juri_ | still waiting for an answer. | 22:45 |
| juri_ | ;) | 22:45 |
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| juri_ | you know, when i asked the nice people in anonops the same question, they replied immediately, and were very helpful. now, whos this man wearing a black suit, pounding on my door? he seems helpful, too! | 22:47 |
| juri_ | i hope he's friendly! :P | 22:48 |
| JayDugger | Sure he is... | 22:53 |
| @kanzure | pfft pulling projects out of my ass perfectly suited to your skills is not easy | 22:53 |
| @kanzure | it's asking quite a lot | 22:53 |
| @kanzure | especially if all of the prjoects flying by haven't been anything you want to engage in | 22:53 |
| * juri_ nods. | 22:56 | |
| juri_ | well, worse case, i'll just work on that improved microscope. | 22:57 |
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| brownies | juri_: we could use more people on the Glowing Cat project | 23:07 |
| @kanzure | or dna synthesis/microfluidics, nanoengineer, afm, hplc, spectrography, etc. | 23:30 |
| juri_ | spectography could be fun. building a gas chromatograph? | 23:32 |
| @kanzure | nmz787 has been working on an open source hardware project for spectrophotometry | 23:33 |
| @kanzure | http://openspectrometer.com/ | 23:33 |
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| --- Log closed Sat Jan 19 00:00:34 2013 | ||
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