2013-03-06.log

--- Log opened Wed Mar 06 00:00:19 2013
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nmz787chesapeake bio looks like vapor at least on their website01:57
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archelsHmmm... so taking calcium supplements is generally bad for you. Tap water contains quite a bit of calcium. Should one thus not drink too much tap water?04:33
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delinquentmezomg HIO08:09
delinquentmekanzure, you know about tons of these technologies08:09
delinquentmelike whats new in the shit08:09
delinquentmepink is advocating to get a grand overview ... and then pipeline processes which create value08:09
delinquentmebut youuuu should have the overview no?08:09
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nmz787paperbot: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/jps.2600670519/pdf09:56
paperbotno translator available, raw dump: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/180b7d891488ac700cc1eaa612403ecc.txt09:56
nmz787paperbot: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com.journals.conserveonline.org:2048/doi/10.1002/jps.2600670519/pdf10:01
paperbotno translator available, raw dump: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/8fe835de5c5f862b01b0d0b3bab503c6.txt10:01
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ParahSailinyou should ban delinguentme11:10
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nmz787what the hell is pink anyway12:26
nmz787the Victorias Secret campaign12:27
nmz787the music artist12:27
nmz787the color12:27
nmz787vagina12:27
nmz787pork12:27
@kanzureParahSailin: that very question has plagued me for years.12:28
ParahSailinwell you have confirmation that others have the opinion that he adds nothing here12:32
chris_99http://www.theatlanticcities.com/arts-and-lifestyle/2013/03/farming-technique-will-revolutionize-way-we-eat/4880/ hadn't heard of that before 'aquaponics'12:39
@kanzureParahSailin: he occassionally builds a thing that doesn't entirely suck.12:40
ParahSailinah, i didnt realize he did anything12:42
@kanzurei told him to gtfo until he had a prototype and then he came back with a prototype12:42
@kanzureso i got nothing on him now :(12:42
ParahSailinprototype of what12:42
@kanzureorbital shaker12:42
ParahSailinoh so hes not a total loser12:42
@kanzureliquid handling machine12:42
@kanzureyou can see my dilemma.12:43
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@kanzureeleitl is trying to do diy production of microelectrode arrays13:53
archelsthat's silly, you can get pretty decent ones for a few hundred bucks13:54
archelstell him to use a CMOS sensor instead :)13:54
@kanzureis a utah array that cheap?13:54
archelsno, flat arrays are13:55
@kanzurecan you link me to one?13:55
chris_99what's he planning on using them for?13:55
@kanzuresame thing as everyone else.. neural recording and stimulation.13:55
ThomasEgithe utah array sels for roughly 4k13:56
@kanzureah i never knew how much, geeze.13:56
@kanzureis it hard to manufacture?13:56
ThomasEgiif you have the right tools, it's not that hard13:57
@kanzurei'm p. sure most research about microelectrode arrays is using the utah array itself13:57
chris_99some are implantable though aren't they13:57
chris_99some aren't13:57
@kanzurearchels: you can tell him to use cmos sensors yourself, https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!topic/diybio/h82UDs7fw1413:58
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@kanzurephillyj: hello14:28
@kanzurephillyj: welcome back14:28
phillyjkanzure: hey bryan14:28
@kanzurehow goes the job?14:29
phillyjkanzure: u remind me once in a while and i come back to check things out on here14:29
phillyjits good14:29
phillyjworkin on new contracts14:29
@kanzureone of the new features is paperbot14:29
phillyjlearning new stuff14:29
phillyjic14:29
phillyjjournal articles?14:30
@kanzurepaperbot: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0006291X8992400514:30
paperbotno translator available, raw dump: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/Electro-insertion%20of%20xeno-glycophorin%20into%20the%20red%20blood%20cell%20membrane.txt14:30
phillyjsweet14:30
@kanzurethat's a bad example i guess, since the pdf wasn't fetched that time.14:30
@kanzurepaperbot: http://rspb.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/early/2010/03/04/rspb.2010.0001.short14:30
paperbotno translator available, raw dump: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/e09e043e8f91a13687790044a07f10a4.txt14:30
@kanzurewow that one was working a few days ago14:30
@kanzurepaperbot: http://www.nature.com/nprot/journal/v7/n12/abs/nprot.2012.140.html14:31
paperbothttp://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/Monitoring%20local%20synaptic%20activity%20with%20astrocytic%20patch%20pipettes.pdf14:31
@kanzurethere we go :)14:31
phillyjhow does this work?14:31
phillyjhow did u pull up that paper?14:32
@kanzurepaperbot's source code is here https://github.com/kanzure/paperbot14:32
@kanzurepaperbot is just an elaborate interface to zotero translation-server, which uses zotero without a browser. zotero has 100s of scrapers for academic journals.14:32
phillyjkanzure: if i type a link, paperbot activates?14:35
phillyjhttp://microfluidics.utoronto.ca/papers/DMF%20by%20Marker%20Masking.pdf14:35
phillyjpaperbot: http://microfluidics.utoronto.ca/papers/DMF%20by%20Marker%20Masking.pdf14:36
paperbotno translator available, raw dump: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/b594add7ad6f4c3c819df96e9ade9e3d.pdf14:36
phillyjic now, that's cool14:36
jrayhawkhttp://www.ted.com/talks/allan_savory_how_to_green_the_world_s_deserts_and_reverse_climate_change.html on the subject of revolutionary agriculture14:57
jrayhawkarchels: Calcium is dangerous in the context of micronutrient imbalances. Excess vitamin A causes bone demineralization, excess vitamin D causes soft tissue calcification, and vitamin K2 deficiency causes both.15:00
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jrayhawkCalcium supplementation is almost always ineptly throwing more calcium at a calcium management problem. Genuine deficiencies are very rare.15:04
jrayhawks/[Ee]xcess vitamin ([AD])/Vitamin \1 dominance/15:11
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@fennarchels: more important is the ratio of calcium to magnesium (we dont get enough magnesium); i figure if you get enough magnesium from supplements or super special water you won't need to worry about calcium in the water15:38
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@fennof course what jrayhawk said is correct too. nobody said it was simple15:42
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@kanzurehmm https://www.circuitlab.com/blog/2013/03/06/circuitlab-integration-on-electronics-stack-exchange/15:44
@kanzurehttp://electronics.stackexchange.com/?from=CircuitLab15:44
@kanzure"We are excited to announce that CircuitLab is now integrated with the Electrical Engineering Stack Exchange site! Users can now insert a CircuitLab schematic directly into their question or answer."15:44
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@fennwhat is circuitlab15:45
@kanzureit's like upverter15:45
@fenngreat15:45
@kanzurehtml/javascript schematic editor15:45
@fenndoes it export its fucking data format15:45
@kanzurehaven't checked. upverter does (a bit? all the way? something like that).15:46
@kanzurehttp://blog.upverter.com/import-and-export-upverter-open-json-file-for15:46
@fennno, circuitlab not upverter15:46
@fenn"The only thing you can't do is render the schematics of your circuit (i.e Export to PDF, SVG, etc..."15:46
@fennCan I export my CircuitLab schematics out to another tool?15:47
@fennNot at this time.15:47
@kanzureouch15:47
@fennfuck that15:47
@kanzurewell, i can write some javascript to steal the data from their editor if someone finds a circuit they want.15:47
@fenni'm surprised i can't think of any general purpose netlist format15:47
@fennthere's spice but it doesn't handle integrated circuits15:48
@kanzureyeah i thought it was weird that upverter chose json until i tried to think of something else they could use, and thought of nothing..15:48
@fennwell json seems reasonable15:48
@kanzureyes but they had to come up with it15:48
@fennanyway i see this as sort of like "stackexchange users can now insert java applets into their code! yay!~"15:49
@fennexcept java is at least a standard15:50
@kanzurehtml is also a standard :p15:50
@fennprotons and electrons vibrating in space15:50
@fenneverything's physics!15:51
@kanzurercs.org has a few java applets that (apparently) many professors and schools use for doing their chemistry lab work15:52
@kanzureand when windows/osx rolled out their recent "disable jvm because of a critical vulnerability" a few weeks ago, that all stopped working15:52
@kanzureso there was a lot of hurried emails i saw complaining about this15:53
@kanzurepretty strange to see so many people using java applets15:53
@fennwow big surprise here: "At this time, CircuitLab is entirely free-of-charge.15:53
@fennIn the future, as the tool continues to grow and evolve, we may decide to charge15:53
@fennjava applets were a big deal in 200015:54
@fennfor a long time it was the only way to do anything that required fast computation in the browser15:54
@fennrecently javascript interpreters have sped up a lot15:54
@fennjavascript is still slower though15:55
@fenni havent been able to get java plugins to work for years though15:56
@kanzurei usually download the jar and run it with webstart from the shell15:56
@fennhm. i only ever wanted to use the falstad.com math and physics demos, and occasionally some crusty government GIS tools15:58
@kanzurei used an ssh applet so that i can do real work while at school15:58
@fenn oh but now we have "apps" for that :\15:58
@fennwhat is an "app" anyway15:59
@kanzurewell it was windows, so it had a lot of lockdown, and i couldn't install putty.15:59
@fenn"packaged apps are written in HTML5, JavaScript, and CSS. But packaged apps look and behave like native apps, and they have native-like capabilities that are much more powerful than those available to web apps."15:59
@fenni just mean this chrome extension thing, which seems totally bizarre to me16:00
@kanzuredo firefox extensions seem strange?16:00
@fennlike, the browser can't handle ssh:// protocol urls, but there's this thing you can install that isn't a document and isn't a program16:00
@fennblegh16:00
@fennno wonder kids dont know how computers work16:01
@fennfirefox extensions just modify how the browser goes about displaying a page16:02
@fennchrome apps are like webpages, but they're not on the web, or something16:02
@kanzurefirefox extensions do much more than that16:02
@kanzureit's more similar than you might think16:02
@kanzurebecause firefox's entire infrastructure is all javascript16:02
@fennit is?16:02
@kanzurethere are some parts that are not (like gecko) but everything else.. basically yes.16:03
@fennthey've invented so many layers and api's and copies of everything that i just assumed it was all in C++16:03
@fennlike XUL, what the hell is that16:03
@kanzurehttp://web.uvic.ca/~hitchner/assign1.pdf16:05
@kanzurefirefox architecture explanation doc16:05
@kanzurehm that doesn't explain the thing i wanted to point out16:05
@kanzurezotero translation-server is an okay example. zotero was originally a firefox extension. but now they don't require firefox and just requier some of the other parts like gecko sdk and xulrunner.16:06
@kanzurehttps://github.com/zotero/translation-server/blob/master/src/zotero.js16:07
@kanzurehttps://github.com/zotero/zotero/tree/master/chrome/content/zotero16:07
* fenn grumbles about boxes with dotted lines around them16:11
@fenni'm just worried that all the development is going to go into browser specific add-ons, and doing anything separately will become more and more of a chore because the tools weren't designed to be used by people in the first place16:12
@fenni shouldnt have to launch chrome to use the ssh protocol, but apparently you have to launch chrome to view a circuitlab document16:13
@fennthen in ten years nobody will know where to find the program to view this document, because it was never a "real" program in the first place16:15
@fennyou'd have to run a ten year old copy of chrome, and so on16:15
@kanzurepreaching to the choir16:16
@kanzurethat's why i offered to write some javascript to extract a circuit if you find one you like/want to keep.16:16
* fenn grumbles about DMCA circumvention clause16:17
@fenni dont know if it's even worth it16:17
@kanzurei never found anything particularly impressive on upverter16:18
@kanzurei hear they have an arduino shield template.. but meh?16:18
@fennyou'd just be propping up yet another web based circuit editor16:18
@kanzurei am troubled about the lack of culture around "maintaining" circuits on upverter (or anywhere else)16:19
@fennwell one of their two "featured" circuits is just a copy of a reference open source circuit taken from elsewhere on the web16:20
@fennthe other one is trivial, in the math sense16:20
@kanzurei guess once you make a voltage divider you don't really have to worry about it in the future, not much "maintaining" to do..?16:21
@fenna voltage divider is like the bitshift operator in C, it's not something one needs to distribute in the first place16:22
@fenni mean it's just a basic element of any design16:22
jrayhawkhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vb1pdvvoVoQ inflatable concrete rapid construction16:23
@fennodd how that downloads faster at high resolution16:24
jrayhawkyoutube does QoS based on video bitrate16:24
jrayhawkOr some related heuristic.16:25
@fenni think it's related to how many people in your CDN node's area have downloaded it recently16:26
@fennat that particular resolution16:26
jrayhawkNah, pretty reliably spikes at the beginning and settles down to 1.5-2x bitrate within five seconds.16:27
jrayhawkOn some videos I get pissed off and just reinitiate connections until I get what I want.16:27
@fennheh16:28
jrayhawkI'm a little surprised the quvi community hasn't automated that yet.16:28
@fennon some videos i just drag the slider around and watch the preview thumbnails16:28
@fenn90% o the time it conveys the message16:28
@fennlook a talking head with poor lighting16:29
jrayhawkTED!16:29
@fennat least they have slides usually16:29
@fenni'm talking about "my raw food diet update #22"16:30
@fennjust give me the transcript please16:30
@kanzurefor some reason not many people believe in transcripts these days16:31
@fenni wish youtube's automatic captions were more accurate16:31
@kanzureit's not exactly a huge investment16:31
@fennthey can afford to do all this transcoding for free, why not decent speech recognition16:31
jrayhawkcrowdsource everything16:31
@kanzurebut the crowd invariably does not type it up16:32
@kanzureit ends up being me16:32
@kanzurea crowd of one16:32
@fennuse humans to do the computer's job!~16:32
@fennseriously when did this start sounding like a good idea16:32
klafkamturk16:32
@fennit was a bad idea then too16:32
@kanzuremturk costs money to do transcripts16:32
@kanzurewhen you post a video, it should just be good citizenship to write up a quick transcript.16:33
@fenni think nobody knows how to do it because it's not part of the basic video upload interface16:33
jrayhawknow i am sad that i am not watching "my raw food diet update #22"16:33
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@fennjrayhawk: i was thinking of this video http://www.rawradianthealth.com/blog/2011/01/15/part-1-my-vitamin-b12-deficiency-change-of-diet-ep321/ (hint: you can figure it out from the URL)16:41
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jrayhawkhaha, good lord16:45
jrayhawkthat warms the cockles of my grain-hating bacon-loving heart16:51
jrayhawkhaha the difference in eye bagginess from that and http://www.rawradianthealth.com/blog/2011/11/16/test-results-update-on-my-vitamin-b12-deficiency-ep342/16:54
jrayhawkboom, thyroid works again16:54
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nmz787i see bags under her eyes in both vids18:06
nmz787i guess they're less blue18:07
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@kanzurewhat's a sane way to return variables from a bash function?18:17
@kanzureplease assume i want to keep stdout18:17
@kanzurei mean, that i am flooding stdout with crap.18:17
@kanzurei see some guides that are suggesting to use eval(??) to set a global variable based on a name passed to the function, instead of just setting a global variable.18:18
@fennhow many variables are you returning?18:24
@fenni'd just pass in empty variables to be filled18:25
@fennthis could be an array, if you want to go there18:27
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@kanzurewtf, why doesn't this work? curl --request PUT --data "hello=world" -F myfile=@test.txt http://httpbin.org/put18:31
@kanzurei am pretty sure you can send data inside a PUT request..18:32
@fennbecause you're sending two types of data? --data and -F18:33
@kanzurethis works: r = requests.put("http://httpbin.org/put", data={"hello": "world"}, files={"stuff": open("/tmp/testing.txt", "r")})18:34
@kanzurewhen i set --data "hello=world" --data myfile=@test.txt, it sends "myfile=@test.txt" instead of a file called myfile.18:34
@fennof course18:35
@kanzure"A normal PUT with curl is made with -T without the use of -X or -d." what..18:36
@kanzurei think this is saying that it is impossible to use command-line curl to PUT a file with other data in the same request18:37
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@fenn-T seems to be different from -F18:39
@kanzurewhen i use --data with -T it seems to overwrite the other data with the file contents18:39
@kanzurealso you can't set the filename when using -T (you must do -T file.txt not -T name=@file.txt)18:39
@fennperhaps requests and curl have different capabilities18:40
@kanzurethey definitely do18:40
@kanzurerequests uses urllib318:41
@kanzurethere's human_curl which has the same api as requests but uses curl under the hood18:41
@fennmaybe nobody ever thought you'd want to send form data and multipart form data in the same request18:41
@kanzure... really?18:41
@kanzurei'm pretty sure i do that all the time on forms18:41
@kanzure"upload a file, also type some things to describe this file". happens everywhere on the web.18:41
@fennthis seems to support my theory http://stackoverflow.com/questions/12667797/using-curl-to-upload-post-data-with-files18:44
@fennbasically they say to use a bunch of -F parameters18:45
@fenncurl --request PUT -F "myfile=@test.txt" -F "hello=world" http://httpbin.org/put18:45
@kanzureokay much better: curl --request PUT -F "hello=world" -F "stuff=@test.txt" http://httpbin.org/put18:46
@kanzureyes18:46
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nmz787kanzure: uploading via android <=2.3 doesn't allow you to select multiple files from the image gallery20:11
@kanzureinstall linux, use a terminal app, and just chroot into linux.20:15
@kanzurei guess i mean install debian, not linux.20:16
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@kanzurehttp://www.the-scientist.com/?magazines.view/magazineIssueNo/1634/title/The-Do-It-Yourself-Revolution/20:35
@kanzurehttp://www.the-scientist.com/?articles.view/articleNo/34457/title/The-Rebirth-of-DIYbio/20:35
@kanzurehttp://www.the-scientist.com/?articles.view/articleNo/34467/title/DIY-in-the-Lab/20:35
@kanzurehttp://www.the-scientist.com/?articles.view/articleNo/34442/title/Sticky-Lithography/20:35
@kanzurehttp://www.the-scientist.com/?articles.view/articleNo/34443/title/DIYbio--Low-Risk--High-Potential/20:36
@kanzurehttp://www.the-scientist.com/?articles.view/articleNo/34444/title/Regulating-Amateurs/20:36
@kanzurehttp://www.the-scientist.com/?articles.view/articleNo/34433/title/Do-It-Yourself-Medicine/20:36
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@kanzure"Humberto Macedo, an ALS patient in Brazil, started a Google Docs spreadsheet to track self-reported ALSFRS-R scores." clearly he most be stopped (using google docs is an obvious sign of being completely nuts)20:37
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@kanzurehaha they got todd to write the article on risk? that's the most biased source you can pick.20:41
@kanzure"A key first step is choosing a leader. The NSABB, set up after the Fink Committee report, has already become a source of expertise in regulation and safety and is an obvious choice as a central authority to oversee DIYbio"20:42
@kanzureugh20:42
@kanzure"Another important task is to encourage further institutionalization of the DIYbio movement." how did that sentence pass editing? that sentence just explodes all over itself.20:43
@fennyes they should all be put in padded rooms before they explode again20:44
@kanzure"our plan is to institutionalize the non-institutionalization people"20:45
@fennyou'd think it would be an obvious contradiction, but years of argument on the mailing list shows that many people don't see it that way20:46
@kanzureprobably because everyone is generally okay with things like biocurious and genspace existing.. but this means that when they get in the media splotlight, they don't ever clarify the non-institutional aspects of people who don't explicitly use their labs.20:47
@fenni haven't been following it for a while; has anyone associated with DIYbio actually done anything useful in the past year?20:47
@kanzurepatrik broke a printer and put some notes on instructables20:47
@fennokay, but that has nothing to do with biology20:48
@kanzurecathal has been working on a custom plasmid that he plans to sell20:48
@fennwhat does it do?20:48
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@kanzurei think his goal is to just make it easier to insert genes20:48
@fennfair enough20:49
@kanzurenot sure, i don't remember the details because he's sort of hush hush about it.20:49
@fennhas anyone snagged a copy of biobrick dna yet?20:49
@kanzurestacey put up some notes on instructables for another thermocycler http://www.instructables.com/id/Arduino-PCR-thermal-cycler-for-under-85/ http://github.com/kanzure/wiremound-pcr20:49
@kanzureno, but juul would be the person to ask about that since he works for biofab/drew endy20:49
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@fenni thought the pvc+lightbulb thing was good enough20:50
@kanzurei'm just trying to remember specific things you might be interested in20:50
@fennso, two hackerspaces and zero projects came out of them?20:50
@kanzureyash: fenn wants a list of things that happened in diybio in the past year that might be categorized as progress20:50
yashpfft haha20:51
@fennor even negative results20:51
@kanzurethis is up-to-date if you want to look yourself, but it's only what the news picks up http://diyhpl.us/wiki/diybio/faq/news20:51
@fenndiybio should publish its own newsletter. what happened to that? nobody cares?20:51
@kanzurea lot of the recent stuff has been commercial.. like john schloendorn finally started a company to sell reagents.20:51
@kanzuremac wanted it to be his own thing, that postcard thing20:52
@kanzurewhere he physically sends you a fucking postcard -_-20:52
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@fenni dont get the postcard idea at all20:52
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@kanzureit's for people in the government who believe in information overload20:52
@kanzurethey think it's "neat"20:52
@fennthe reason for diybio writing its own newletter is that other news sources just rehash the same stories over and over20:52
@kanzurewell jason/mac wanted people to write blog articles for a while, but nobody regularly submitted content20:53
@fennso if you want to know what's actually going on, you're out of luck20:53
@kanzureand i guess jason/mac are both too lazy to do it themselves20:53
@fennbastards20:53
@fennprinting out a hashtag doesn't count as editorial critique20:53
@kanzurethere was a biosafety thing that jason setup... but you have to go to diybio.org to type in your question to this box, and then an Expert might answer your question~~20:53
@kanzurelamest shit ever20:54
@fennis there a stackoverflow thingy for wetlab techniques?20:54
@kanzureyes it's called methodmint and nobody uses it20:55
@fennhttp://biology.stackexchange.com/ seems too general20:55
@kanzurehttp://abl.es/20:55
@kanzuremethodmint renamed to abl.es and i haven't been able to remember it ever since20:56
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yashffs20:56
@fennit just looks like a blank white page20:56
@fennis this some kind of postmodern ironic satire?20:56
@fenn"just change the values of the pixels to create your own instructions!"20:56
@kanzureoh i didn't see this before, but they seem to have git repos for their site on the public web20:57
@kanzurehttp://trac.methodmint.org/wiki/MethodmintRepositories20:57
@kanzurei wonder if that is intentional20:57
yashok so seriously I guess openbiotech.com is diybio-related, but I don't really follow the google group that much20:57
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@kanzureopenbiotech.com is just a company though20:58
yashyeah, but...still, I guess20:58
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@kanzuredatabase password is 'mould' http://trac.methodmint.org/browser/settings.py20:59
@kanzuremy guess is that this is not supposed to be public20:59
@kanzuregentlemen, start your cloning.20:59
@fennwoo a bunch of plaintext protocols that may or may not be correct21:00
@kanzureright..21:00
@kanzurewell that's the reaction to any book of protocols21:00
@kanzureis there a way to clone from trac? it looks like it doesn't expose the git repository itself.21:01
@fennisnt trac usually svn?21:02
@fennanyway i doubt the protocols are in the repo, since it's django21:03
@fennyou need to get a database dump somehow21:03
@kanzureer no i am just interested in defacing their site or having access without their knowledge21:03
@kanzuretheir protocols aren't that interesting21:04
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@fennif you dont care about version history you can just spider http://trac.methodmint.org/browser21:05
@fennoh i guess they are using git21:05
@kanzureyeah i just thought trac would host something like trac.methodmint.org/methodmint.git or something21:07
@kanzureaha http://git.methodmint.com/methodmint21:09
@fenngee i wonder what the password might be21:09
@kanzurei think SECRET_KEY = 'u2y=71bj-k%-iubxq+gvtwo7__7#b2gr^^4ug)a4*uzy^c7d#m'21:12
@kanzurecould be used somehow, i just don't remember the exact algorithm django uses to generate its cookies.21:12
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@kanzuresomething like sha256(SECRET_KEY + str(user.id))21:12
@fenni'm always amazed at how much goes into a simple website21:15
@kanzurei wasn't aware that they have taken 2 years to make the site so far, that's a bit extreme for the current state of the site. it looks like it's just a once-in-a-while hobby of theirs.21:15
@fennmaybe it is a once-in-a-while hobby that they've been doing for two years21:16
@fennhow do they get people to contribute protocols?21:18
@kanzurei don't think they do.. it looks like their plan was "build it and they will come".21:20
@fennbut they have contributions21:20
@kanzureah.. hashlib.sha1((key_salt + secret).encode("utf-8")).digest()21:20
@kanzurethe fuck is key_salt in this case21:20
@kanzurehashlib.sha1("u2y=71bj-k%-iubxq+gvtwo7__7#b2gr^^4ug)a4*uzy^c7d#m" + str(963)).hexdigest()21:22
@kanzurethis does not match the cookie they gave me.21:22
@fenn379 users so far is not too bad http://abl.es/profiles/379/21:23
@fennyou know what a salt is right?21:23
@kanzureyes but the salt has to be written down somewhere21:23
@kanzurei don't see it in settings.py21:24
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@fennsorry i got you distracted on this21:28
@fennthere are probably more worthwhile things to be doing21:28
@kanzurelike taking pictures of ads http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/bldfjiad.gif21:29
@fennwhy is it red?21:30
@kanzureprobably to match the app's background21:30
@fennis there OCR designed for screenshots?21:31
@kanzureactually it started out as html21:31
@kanzurehttp://diyhpl.us/~bryan/ad.html21:31
@kanzurebut if i want to store what the ad looks like i think an image is better21:31
@fennuh, okay21:32
@kanzurecan't have 100 iframes on a page showing ads21:32
@fennwhy not21:32
@kanzuretheir remote javascript might change21:33
@kanzurethey might start blocking http requests that have my referer address21:33
@fenncan't you just save the html?21:33
@kanzurethe html calls on some remote js21:33
@fennoh21:33
@kanzurei could host that js myself but then i need to port all the things in it to work with my servers21:34
@kanzureand then i need to do this each time they change their js21:34
@fenndont you love the internet21:34
@kanzurenot really21:34
@fennwhats the word or observing a black box and designing a program that emulates all of its functions21:35
@fennfor*21:35
@fennreverse engineering is not really what i mean, more like automated decompilation, but without any binary21:36
@fenni guess that's an NP hard problem21:36
@fennit would make for some kick-ass compression though21:37
@kanzurei thought that was called black boxing21:37
@fennisn't that a word for something a human programmer does?21:37
@fennmeh. nevermind21:38
@fenneureqa/symbolic regression gets close21:39
@kanzurei keep finding creative excuses to use eureqa21:40
@kanzurethe last time i used it was to figure out the algorithm for how pokemon maps connect to each other in the games.21:40
@kanzurethere were about 10 variables that had to be manipulated somehow to get a series of bytes for each map21:40
@fenni want to run it on the tables in CRC handbook, machinery handbook, etc21:40
@kanzuretoo bad that would be a DMCA violation.21:40
@fennno it wouldn't21:41
@fenni'm just deciphering the laws of the universe, a purely philosophical inquiry21:41
@kanzurewell, crc is hosted on the web somewhere, and it has a few anti-circumvention things.21:41
@fennah i do have the pdf21:42
@kanzuretell juri_ to make gift do it for you21:42
@kanzurethat's her job right?21:42
@fenngift doesnt do layout recognition does it?21:43
@kanzurenever used it21:44
@fenni think it just compares histograms or something silly like that21:44
@fennyou wouldn't think it's such a hard problem to reverse engineer page layouts21:45
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@kanzurewell, make up some test cases and a scoring metric.21:46
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@kanzurebased on some known-good samples.21:46
@kanzureand then release that somewhere public so that you don't forget about it.21:46
@fenni'm not really sure how to go about it21:47
@fennmost computer vision tools are pixel based, but a pdf has infinite resolution21:47
@fennseems wasteful to throw away those sub-pixel coincidences21:47
@kanzureis it a poor scan of crc?21:47
@fennno it's the cd that came with the book21:48
@fennsome of the pages are scans though, because the authors were lazy21:48
@fennmaybe it's better to just assume i only have the scan21:48
@fennthis is such a dumb problem, i hate humanity21:49
* fenn goes away to mope21:49
@kanzureoh geeze http://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=bensw21:54
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nmz787so kanzure re: multi image select in android, looks like there is java code to add the checkbox to allow multi-select, but I'm wondering if I should do it in phonegap22:05
nmz787iphone i believe allows multi image selection22:05
nmz787but phonegap would allow a non-web app to take birth22:06
@kanzuremulti..select?22:08
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nmz787yeah, i'm not sure why you mentioned installing debian earlier22:21
nmz787that isn't something that's remotely possible to expect app users to do22:21
@kanzureyou said to upload images or something22:22
@kanzurei assumed you meant on your phone22:22
@kanzureso install debian in a chroot, then use a saner program like lftp, scp, etc., to upload multiple files.22:22
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@kanzureauthorea looks like a sharelatex clone http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=533530422:47
@kanzurehttps://www.authorea.com/22:47
cpopellkanzure--meeting with Andrew Herr Tuesday. Any questions for him?22:56
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@kanzurehooray :rainbows: humanity+ is closing down23:55
archelskanzure: so why did eleitl stop coming here anyway?23:59
--- Log closed Thu Mar 07 00:00:20 2013

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