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| eleitl | kanzure, will you be getting google fiber? | 01:40 |
|---|---|---|
| kanzure | i am zone-compatible but it will depend on whether or not the apartment complex pays google i think | 01:41 |
| eleitl | I would try organizing it | 01:42 |
| eleitl | you can always run VPN over the pipe, so fuck the data kraken | 01:42 |
| kanzure | not sure if i will still be in austin in 2014 | 01:42 |
| eleitl | oh? where are you going? | 01:42 |
| kanzure | probably san francisco. it is inevitable. | 01:42 |
| eleitl | sounds expensive | 01:42 |
| kanzure | "it's too expensive not to go!" | 01:43 |
| * brownies pours kanzure another glass of kool-aid | 01:43 | |
| eleitl | as long as you stay away from the salt mines, why not | 01:43 |
| eleitl | any idea what that North Korea propaganda is trying to distract from? | 01:47 |
| kanzure | they are busy digging a tunnel to china | 01:47 |
| eleitl | I keep looking, but only see Comex gold depositories being emptied, but that one might be a canard | 01:47 |
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| eleitl | http://www.kurzweilai.net/man-will-become-like-god-say-mormons-and-transhumanists-in-salt-lake-city <-- does not sound like a good idea | 05:31 |
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| Swordsman | The title brings to mind the 'original sin' from Christianity | 06:55 |
| Swordsman | not the original human sin, but the fall of Lucifer, for wanting 'to be like God' | 06:56 |
| chris_99 | that article explains nothing to me | 06:56 |
| Swordsman | Like, the Bible doesn't even say that Lucifer did anything, he just *wanted* to be as awesome as God | 06:58 |
| Swordsman | so like, God was basically Lucifer's rolemodel, and God pwn'd him | 06:59 |
| ThomasEgi | http://volldost.soup.io/post/307732632/my-own-heaven | 07:03 |
| chris_99 | lol | 07:09 |
| Swordsman | When I was a kid, I heard that a bunch in church, that Lucifer was cast from heaven for wanting to become God's equal, and it seemed to me that God was the real asshole in that situation | 07:09 |
| Swordsman | basically, it kinda seemed to me like Lucifer's crime was being a transhumanist (maybe though maybe a term like 'transangelist' would be more fitting or something) | 07:11 |
| Swordsman | so, I suspect that christianity and it's derivatives are technically in opposition to transhumanism, though a lot of christians seem to base their beliefs more on the culture of the church, than on what's actually written in the bible | 07:14 |
| * strangewarp grits teeth, avoids talking about theology/cosmology unless he's writing an opera about it or something ... | 07:15 | |
| Swordsman | so they're technically incompatible, but only hardcore fundamentalists are likely to notice | 07:15 |
| Swordsman | heh yeah, it's a bad subject... I'll try to stop now, and just go for a walk | 07:16 |
| strangewarp | on that subject, has anyone read Max Tegmark's cosmological work? I'm considering diverting myself with it | 07:17 |
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| strangewarp | Ugh, his website sucks, and his sense of humor seems stupid | 07:50 |
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| strangewarp | Hm, he spoke at a Singularity Summit at some point, apparently? Interesting | 07:59 |
| strangewarp | Oh hm. Max Tegmark has been acquaintences with Wei Dai for at least a decade and a half. That makes sense, since Wei Dai said he isn't concerned about preserving his brain with cryonics... | 08:29 |
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| kanzure | strangewarp: i think tegmark is worth reading once, and then never again. | 09:56 |
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| kanzure | eleitl: shame on you for reading kurzweilai.net | 10:01 |
| kanzure | you know that amara essentially regurgitates whatever you write by email, right? | 10:01 |
| kanzure | http://enjoythedisruption.com/post/47527556151/my-thoughts-on-mendeley-elsevier-why-i-left-to-start "For that reason then I co-founded PeerJ, an Open Access journal, with one aim of never being in the position to take shit ever again from a closed publisher." | 10:05 |
| strangewarp | kanzure: Not to pry, but is there a reason you dislike Tegmark? He seems to be confirming some hunches I've had, and some systems I've read casual explanations of, and I want to make sure I'm not falling into a cognitive trap. | 10:06 |
| kanzure | no, i said he's worth reading once. that does not mean i dislike him. | 10:08 |
| kanzure | but spending any more time on his cosmology wouldn't be very fruitful. | 10:08 |
| kanzure | same with lee smolin, unless you happen to be a loop quantum gravity researcher. which you're not. | 10:09 |
| strangewarp | ahhh | 10:10 |
| strangewarp | alright then. | 10:10 |
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| eudoxia | tt is the universal common ancestor of all hplus-related news on the internet | 10:13 |
| eudoxia | everything else, from nextbigfuture to kurzweilai is a link to a link to a link to a copypaste | 10:13 |
| kanzure | http://cryptojunky.com/blog/2013/02/17/bitcoin-asic-roundup/ | 10:14 |
| kanzure | eudoxia: nextbigfuture used to be alright | 10:15 |
| eudoxia | lel it just dropped from 260 to 215 | 10:16 |
| eudoxia | the bubble might be about to burst | 10:16 |
| eudoxia | i know | 10:17 |
| eudoxia | http://puu.sh/2xx6T | 10:21 |
| eudoxia | prepare your doom paul pictures, gather your children, say your goodbyes, for the Great Happening of our time is upon us | 10:22 |
| kanzure | .title | 10:23 |
| yoleaux | kanzure: Sorry, that doesn't appear to be an HTML page. | 10:23 |
| kanzure | fuck your shortened links | 10:23 |
| chris_99 | it's too hard to tell at the mo' i think it keeps swinging about | 10:23 |
| eudoxia | it's a picture | 10:24 |
| eudoxia | not a url shortener | 10:24 |
| chris_99 | http://bitcoinity.org/markets?currency=GBP&exchange=mtgox is a live link | 10:24 |
| eudoxia | the internet here is collapsing so i had to ask a friend in australia to screenshot it and upload it for me | 10:25 |
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| nmz787__ | jrayhawk: are you around? I'm locked out of my house :/ | 10:43 |
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| kanzure | through the windows! | 11:00 |
| kanzure | why the heck was mendeley doing any marketing related to "open access" in the first place? | 11:14 |
| kanzure | open access is mentioned a lot on e.g. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5525111 | 11:16 |
| kanzure | hm, that's not the best example. | 11:17 |
| kanzure | "In a much-rumored deal announced on Tuesday, academic publisher Elsevier (please see disclosure below) is acquiring Mendeley — a widely-used open platform for collaboration and networking related to scientific research — for about $70 million. While the founders of the network maintain that they are committed to the “open access” movement, and argue that having Elsevier’s resources will allow them to expand their work and make it ... | 11:18 |
| kanzure | ... even more accessible, a number of high-profile users have said they aren’t convinced that Elsevier has changed its stripes, and they are taking their work elsewhere." | 11:18 |
| kanzure | wtf? why would they even claim to be related to open access? | 11:18 |
| kanzure | huh, pmr dropped a comment that says "We have to build our own Open alternative. Academia spends 10 billion/year on #scholpub – it can afford to create the metadata". $10 billion? | 11:21 |
| kanzure | also strange that he doesn't consider zotero an alternative. | 11:22 |
| archels | haha, from the Bullet engine: | 11:25 |
| archels | Objects with higher mass do not fall faster, but require a larger force to be accelerated and stopped. Objects with higher mass only fall faster than lighter objects when there is air drag. | 11:25 |
| kanzure | if you can go for something lighter than bullet, then consider box2d | 11:26 |
| kanzure | also there's another one called openODE or something | 11:26 |
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| kanzure | "At 2Ghz the speed of light in a vacuum delay is a clock cycle every 15cm. Current fiber and copper transmission is about 70% of c, so that's a clock cycle every 10.5 cm. A few clock cycle might not matter for bulk storage, but Intel is also talking about separating main memory from individual processors. There individual clock cycles do matter. Witness the rise of low latency premium RAM." | 11:31 |
| ThomasEgi | the time where RAM was accessible wtihin a single clock cycle are over .. since quite a very long time ago actually | 11:32 |
| ThomasEgi | pretty much since cpu speeds surpassed the system bus speed | 11:34 |
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| ThomasEgi | that was like.. dunno when cpu speed went above 66MHz or so. | 11:36 |
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| jrayhawk | nmz787: ha ha | 11:45 |
| kanzure | strange that he didn't just text you | 11:46 |
| jrayhawk | Yeah. | 11:46 |
| kanzure | actually, i suppose it's even stranger that i would suggest texting you | 11:47 |
| kanzure | nevermind. | 11:47 |
| jrayhawk | Oh I guess those underscores imply that he's not paying attention to his normal account. | 11:47 |
| kanzure | he seems to only login to gnusha once in a blue moon | 11:47 |
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| kanzure | i wonder if elsevier-mendeley is going to start deleting papers from your collection | 12:57 |
| archels | oh, bitcoin already crashed. that was quick | 12:59 |
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| BioGuy | paperbot http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/ja00505a037 | 13:04 |
| paperbot | error: HTTP 500 http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/Lucibufagins.%202.%20Esters%20of%2012-oxo-2.beta.%2C5.beta.%2C11.alpha.-trihydroxybufalin%2C%20the%20major%20defensive%20steroids%20of%20the%20firefly%20Photinus%20pyralis%20%28Coleoptera%3A%20Lampyridae%29.pdf | 13:05 |
| kanzure | http://www.nature.com/news/see-through-brains-clarify-connections-1.12768 | 13:13 |
| kanzure | "A chemical treatment that turns whole organs transparent offers a big boost to the field of ‘connectomics’ — the push to map the brain’s fiendishly complicated wiring." | 13:13 |
| kanzure | "The new method instead allows researchers to see directly into optically transparent whole brains or thick blocks of brain tissue. Called CLARITY, it was devised by Karl Deisseroth and his team at Stanford University in California. “You can get right down to the fine structure of the system while not losing the big picture,” says Deisseroth, who adds that his group is in the process of rendering an entire human brain transparent." | 13:14 |
| kanzure | "The technique, published online in Nature on 10 April, turns the brain transparent using the detergent SDS, which strips away lipids that normally block the passage of light (K. Chung et al. Nature http://dx.doi.org/10.1038/nature12107; 2013). Other groups have tried to clarify brains in the past, but many lipid-extraction techniques dissolve proteins and thus make it harder to identify different types of neurons. Deisseroth’s group ... | 13:14 |
| kanzure | ... solved this problem by first infusing the brain with acrylamide, which binds proteins, nucleic acids and other biomolecules. When the acrylamide is heated, it polymerizes and forms a tissue-wide mesh that secures the molecules. The resulting brain–hydrogel hybrid showed only 8% protein loss after lipid extraction, compared to 41% with existing methods." | 13:14 |
| kanzure | paperbot: http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/nature12107.html | 13:14 |
| paperbot | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/Structural%20and%20molecular%20interrogation%20of%20intact%20biological%20systems.pdf | 13:14 |
| kanzure | paperbot: http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/vaop/ncurrent/extref/nature12107-s1.pdf | 13:15 |
| paperbot | no translator available, raw dump: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/7b0c273e70ca41c9d5e28f4efef62ada.pdf | 13:15 |
| kanzure | http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/vaop/ncurrent/fig_tab/nature12107_SV2.html "3D visualization of the YFP-expressing neuronal circuit elements from pial surface to the thalamus in the intact Thy-1:eYFP mouse brain (16 weeks old) shown in Fig. 2." | 13:16 |
| kanzure | http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/vaop/ncurrent/fig_tab/nature12107_SV14.html "Hippocampus region showing networks of YFP-expressing neurons (green), distribution of PV-positive neurons (red) and astrocytes (blue)." | 13:19 |
| BioGuy | paperbot: http://link.springer.com/article/10.1023/A%3A1021072303515 | 13:20 |
| paperbot | error: HTTP 500 http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/Firefly%20Toxicosis%20in%20Lizards.pdf | 13:20 |
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| kanzure | "Second, whereas passive diffusion of detergent micelles would take many months to completely extract lipids from the adult mouse brain, we developed an active-transport organ-electrophoresis approach, which we term electrophoretic tissue clearing (ETC), that capitalizes on the highly charged nature of ionic micelles." | 13:26 |
| kanzure | ... organ electrophoresis. | 13:27 |
| jrayhawk | ah, apparently he also lacks a phone | 13:28 |
| kanzure | wtf is this madness http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/vaop/ncurrent/fig_tab/nature12107_SV3.html "3D visualization of YFP-expressing neuronal circuit elements in the ventral half of the intact Thy-1:eYFP mouse brain (16 weeks old)." | 13:29 |
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| kanzure | oh :( "K.C. and K.D. have disclosed these findings to the Stanford Office of Technology Licensing, which has filed a patent to ensure broad use of the methods in microscopy systems and for studying disease mechanisms and treatments. All protocols and methods remain freely available for academic and non-profit research in perpetuity, and supported by the authors, through the CLARITY website (http://CLARITYresourcecenter.org)" | 13:39 |
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| kanzure | http://clarityresourcecenter.org/ | 13:40 |
| kanzure | http://clarityresourcecenter.org/CLARITY_Protocol.pdf | 13:40 |
| kanzure | http://clarityresourcecenter.org/CLARITY_materials.pdf | 13:40 |
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| kanzure | archels: is neuroml-technology@lists.sourceforge.net any good? | 13:59 |
| kanzure | https://github.com/NeuroML/NeuroML2 | 14:00 |
| kanzure | https://github.com/NeuroML/jNeuroML | 14:00 |
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| ParahSailin | paperbot: http://www.cell.com/current-biology/retrieve/pii/S0960982213002108 | 14:22 |
| paperbot | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/Vervet%20Monkeys%20Solve%20a%20Multiplayer%20Forbidden%20Circle%20Game%20by%20Queuing%20to%20Learn%20Restraint.pdf | 14:22 |
| ParahSailin | paperbot: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0960982213002108 | 14:23 |
| paperbot | no translator available, raw dump: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/Vervet%20Monkeys%20Solve%20a%20Multiplayer%20Forbidden%20Circle%20Game%20by%20Queuing%20to%20Learn%20Restraint.txt | 14:23 |
| kanzure | why is the same id in the cell.com and sciencedirect.com urls? | 14:24 |
| ParahSailin | that "pdf" that paperbot fetched the first time linked to that sd url as the "canonical" one | 14:25 |
| kanzure | hmm. | 14:26 |
| kanzure | paperbot: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=GatewayURL&_origin=CELLPRESS&_urlversion=4&_method=citationSearch&_version=1&_src=FPDF&_piikey=S0960982213002108&md5=7e2a1388af7c193792480eec36b20722 | 14:26 |
| paperbot | no translator available, raw dump: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/Vervet%20Monkeys%20Solve%20a%20Multiplayer%20Forbidden%20Circle%20Game%20by%20Queuing%20to%20Learn%20Restraint.txt | 14:26 |
| kanzure | i suppose i should not trust zotero translation-server to always return a pdf url | 14:27 |
| kanzure | or paperbot should check the content-type on the url it gets back from asking translation-server instead of assuming it should be pdf | 14:28 |
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| kanzure | i wonder if i could convince elsevier to run a program that checks pdfs for watermarks and then revoke access rights to unlicensed elsevier papers. just to see how evil they are willing to be. | 14:30 |
| kanzure | uh, i mean, based on their new giant mendeley collection. | 14:31 |
| brownies | can you really trust servers to return correct content-types? | 14:35 |
| kanzure | in general i have found that most pdf serving servers will return the correct content-types | 14:35 |
| kanzure | i can't recall an example where the pdf server was wrong | 14:39 |
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| kanzure | http://blog.blackwinghq.com/2013/04/08/2/ "Dissecting PostgreSQL CVE-2013-1899" | 15:41 |
| kanzure | "Let’s take a look at this thing. Basically, the essence of the vuln is that when a client connects and specifies a database name that begins in “-” (hyphen), the postgres server misinterprets the database name as a command line flag for the server instance handling that connection (Even before any authentication is performed). In other words, an unauthenticated attacker can specify arbitrary command line flags to the target postgres ... | 15:41 |
| kanzure | ... server that will handle their session." | 15:42 |
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| kanzure | deleting mendeley accounts http://duncan.hull.name/2013/01/18/mendelete/ | 15:55 |
| kanzure | http://www.glasscollective.com/ "Google Ventures, Andreessen Horowitz, and Kleiner Perkins Caufield & Byers have teamed up to form the Glass Collective. We’re excited by the promise of the Glass platform. Developers are already dreaming up new experiences for Glass, and we want to help bring those ideas to life. The Glass Collective investment syndicate will provide financing and support to entrepreneurs shaping the future through Glass." | 15:57 |
| kanzure | "Glass is still in the early stages. Take a sneak peek at the Google Mirror API, which will allow you to build services for Glass." | 15:57 |
| kanzure | gah it's a link to a fucking video :( | 15:57 |
| kanzure | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JpWmGX55a40 | 15:57 |
| brownies | am i the only one who hates that you have to communicate with Glass through audio? | 16:07 |
| brownies | is it too much to ask that they just stuff a brain wave sensor in the frame, by the ear? | 16:07 |
| kanzure | "brain waves" ugh | 16:08 |
| kanzure | i fear that we will forever be talking about "brain waves" | 16:08 |
| kanzure | yes yes i know that potentials are real... but :( | 16:08 |
| brownies | brain particles? whatever | 16:08 |
| brownies | you know, just throw some magnets in there and then... stuff will happen. | 16:08 |
| kanzure | i would rather communicate with it by keyboard | 16:08 |
| brownies | where would you put the keyboard though? | 16:09 |
| kanzure | i wonder if i should attempt to pitch the zencoder/face-recognition idea. | 16:09 |
| kanzure | on a shoulder strap | 16:09 |
| brownies | zencoder? | 16:09 |
| kanzure | or a belt hoist | 16:09 |
| brownies | yes, a "utility belt" | 16:09 |
| kanzure | the thing about provisioning servers for real-time video face processing stuff | 16:09 |
| kanzure | we talked about this | 16:09 |
| brownies | i vaguely recall this. you want to stream the Glass video to somewhere and then do something? | 16:10 |
| kanzure | i remember it was you on the other side of the conversation | 16:10 |
| kanzure | yeah because most people wont want to bother with the server problems of video encoding and other crap | 16:10 |
| brownies | i remember that much too | 16:10 |
| kanzure | everyone and their mom is going to be doing face recognition or facial expression detection | 16:11 |
| kanzure | but they will want to focus on that instead of the other server stuff | 16:11 |
| brownies | why does there need to be video encoding in the cloud? wouldn't it be most useful for client-side encoding before sending it to the clouds? | 16:11 |
| kanzure | also: i just got the most amazing recruiter email ever. the subject line reads "Rails opportunity NYC (full telecommute okay)". ha ha ha. | 16:12 |
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| kanzure | brownies: well, you need to re-encode if you want it to be shown on other types of devices because not all devices play the same formats. | 16:12 |
| brownies | i suppose so. | 16:12 |
| kanzure | these are some battle-won bits of knowledge i picked up when i made that ridiculous mobile social network video thing.. | 16:13 |
| kanzure | mobile devices are not going to be encoding your video into 10 different versions of x264 or w/e | 16:13 |
| brownies | sure. just need one efficient one to get it up to the cloud | 16:13 |
| kanzure | there are probably better ideas to be had | 16:14 |
| brownies | brain waves, man. it's all about the brain waves. | 16:15 |
| brownies | until they figure that one out the market will be confined to nerdboys who are ok with wandering around saying "ok glass" all the time | 16:15 |
| kanzure | have you ever useed an eeg? | 16:15 |
| brownies | hm... no, i don't think so. | 16:15 |
| kanzure | i had an emotiv epoc for a while | 16:16 |
| brownies | i'm aware it is... non-trivial. | 16:16 |
| kanzure | and then i began reverse engineering it | 16:16 |
| kanzure | https://github.com/kanzure/emokit | 16:16 |
| kanzure | it's not that it's non-trivial.. gaussian distributions to detect changes in the data are relatively easy. | 16:16 |
| kanzure | the problem is that it sucks. | 16:16 |
| kanzure | an ability to solve non-trivial problems will not make it suck less | 16:16 |
| brownies | well, detecting a change is obviously easy enough | 16:16 |
| brownies | the problem is making it a viable input/output mechanism that can be used reliably | 16:16 |
| kanzure | a keyboard. | 16:17 |
| brownies | so that, for example, glass doesn't call my dentist when i need it to take a photo | 16:17 |
| kanzure | i think the output mechanism is the display, though. | 16:17 |
| brownies | yeah, and audio. | 16:17 |
| kanzure | you should go find a friend with an emotiv or neurosky or mindsky headset | 16:18 |
| brownies | so really it's just a matter of "learning" how to input commands by pointing your brain in a certain direction | 16:18 |
| kanzure | and go try it out | 16:18 |
| kanzure | maybe i just had a particularly bad experience with them, but they could hardly be trained to distinguish between 2 different commands. | 16:18 |
| brownies | i've seen the studies, as well as anecodtal usage by other people | 16:18 |
| brownies | well... case studies, anyway | 16:19 |
| kanzure | some people claim that there are up to 16 different trainable signals but i think that was like one guy that achieved that in a youtube demo once | 16:19 |
| brownies | i do agree it's still years away from being viable for real use | 16:20 |
| kanzure | i think the most successful eeg product so far has been the ears | 16:20 |
| brownies | ears? | 16:20 |
| kanzure | http://en.necomimi.com/ | 16:20 |
| brownies | hahah | 16:22 |
| brownies | i love how they productized it actually | 16:22 |
| kanzure | they really know their market heh | 16:22 |
| kanzure | ugh http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NnofwhV6fw0 | 16:24 |
| @fenn | they're just a bit too big | 16:25 |
| chris_99 | and theres a tail too i believe! | 16:26 |
| @fenn | now it would be cool if they had built in parabolic microphones and earbuds | 16:27 |
| chris_99 | i'm sure i remember speaking to the guys in ##neuroscience and someone saying that it's not technically EEG but something else, but can't remember what they mentioned | 16:27 |
| kanzure | probably EMG | 16:28 |
| chris_99 | yeah could be that | 16:28 |
| kanzure | and their tail is ECG or something.. | 16:29 |
| kanzure | http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/tailly-the-tail-that-wags-when-you-get-excited | 16:29 |
| kanzure | ugh :\ | 16:29 |
| chris_99 | lol | 16:29 |
| kanzure | maybe one day i will get over my EEG bias. | 16:31 |
| kanzure | anti-EEG bias i mean. | 16:31 |
| brownies | it's based on heartrate? that's pretty lame | 16:32 |
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| @fenn | parietal lobe would make more sense for the ears, and then you wouldn't have a nerdstigma on your forehead | 16:33 |
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| strangewarp | these things will not be good enough until they connect to the nervous system. everything before then just feeds off otaku overenthusiasm | 16:33 |
| kanzure | strangewarp: i think it's perfectly fine to feed off of otaku overenthusiasm. they found a really good market fit. | 16:34 |
| kanzure | i just happen to hate it. heh. | 16:34 |
| brownies | i don't think it's necessary to connect directly. there's enough data available from external sensors; it's just a UI matter | 16:34 |
| @fenn | i guess they didnt want to mess with electrodes going through hair | 16:34 |
| kanzure | brownies: you really need to experiment with these devices before you claim there's enough data.. | 16:34 |
| kanzure | the data is there but it's not necessarily something that you can control as a user.. | 16:34 |
| brownies | kanzure: that's why i said it's a UI matter | 16:35 |
| kanzure | by that logic everything is user interface | 16:35 |
| kanzure | what? | 16:35 |
| brownies | kanzure: http://www.nature.com/news/scientists-read-dreams-1.11625 | 16:35 |
| @fenn | that's fMRI; huge difference | 16:35 |
| brownies | kanzure: it is a matter of making the "interface" usable without loads of training, and making it error-free | 16:35 |
| brownies | fenn: i said "external sensors" | 16:36 |
| brownies | you people. | 16:36 |
| @fenn | let's make an effort not to conflate EEG and fMRI | 16:38 |
| kanzure | i would be happy to lug around an fmri | 16:38 |
| kanzure | at least it would be more useful than eeg | 16:38 |
| brownies | besides, that is one example of how much data is available | 16:38 |
| brownies | fenn: let's make an effort not to read "external sensors" as "one type of sensor" then. | 16:38 |
| kanzure | wtf... | 16:38 |
| @fenn | the whole conversation was about EEG up to this point | 16:38 |
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| @fenn | unless you meant something else by "brainwaves" | 16:38 |
| brownies | well, y'know. if they just make MRI 1000x smaller, that works too. | 16:38 |
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| chris_99 | what's the thing called where you shine a laser through the skull and pickup the reflection iirc | 16:38 |
| brownies | fenn: fair, i did say "waves." i'm open to all brainy things though. | 16:38 |
| @fenn | chris_99: infrared spectroscopy? | 16:38 |
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| kanzure | infrared reflectrometry or something | 16:38 |
| kanzure | reflectometry | 16:38 |
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| kanzure | brownies: i still insist that you should go steal one of these devices (emotiv epoc, neurosky, mindsky, etc.) from a friend and try it out for a few days. | 16:39 |
| ParahSail1n | those are eegs? | 16:39 |
| kanzure | also if you know someone who has an openeeg helmet, that would also be acceptable | 16:39 |
| @fenn | better to get something like openEEG so you can see what the raw data looks like | 16:39 |
| kanzure | ParahSail1n: to be honest i've lost track. | 16:39 |
| @fenn | it's a NOORAL IMPALS AKTUATOR | 16:40 |
| kanzure | i guess i should write this down on the wiki | 16:41 |
| kanzure | i thought someone was claiming that emotiv epoc wasn't eeg either | 16:42 |
| brownies | kanzure: looking over summaries, there is obviously enough available data from EEGs | 16:42 |
| brownies | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain%E2%80%93computer_interface#EEG | 16:42 |
| brownies | it's just a matter of reducing training time and requiring fewer electrodes | 16:42 |
| kanzure | number of electrodes seriously doesn't matter to me. couldn't care less if it was 100 or 1000. | 16:43 |
| brownies | experiments from the '90s proved there was enough data available | 16:43 |
| brownies | so i don't know where you people get off | 16:43 |
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| brownies | kanzure: yeah, i would wear any sort of fancy hat if it would save me the trouble of having to physically type things | 16:44 |
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| ParahSail1n | someone had a silly eeg game at sens 2011 | 16:44 |
| kanzure | i see nothing in this wikipedia article about data bandwidth through an eeg helmet | 16:44 |
| kanzure | i mean, controlled data, not raw data. | 16:44 |
| brownies | kanzure: there's enough data available to move around a mouse cursor. that's about the right order of magnitude to work with glass, i think. | 16:46 |
| kanzure | just use a gyroscope for that? | 16:46 |
| kanzure | that's what emotiv does for mouse movement. | 16:46 |
| brownies | would be kind of clunky to move around a mouse cursor over my field of view, but it's still better than saying "ok glass" all the time like a jackass | 16:46 |
| kanzure | it turns out that daeken got the protocol wrong when he was looking into emotiv epoc | 16:46 |
| brownies | kanzure: well, the point here is to do it without requiring any movement or... "external output" from the body, if you will | 16:47 |
| kanzure | and as a result the mouse would bounce around like crazy | 16:47 |
| kanzure | he later admitted to me that he totally guessed | 16:47 |
| brownies | haha | 16:47 |
| kanzure | until i fixed it https://github.com/kanzure/emokit/commit/b023a3c195410147dae44a3ce3a6d72f7c16e441 | 16:47 |
| kanzure | dunno where he even came up with the idea of -106 and -105 there... | 16:48 |
| ParahSail1n | lol | 16:49 |
| brownies | heh | 16:49 |
| ParahSail1n | those were the lowest values he observed, so just used them as offset | 16:49 |
| kanzure | hmm i wonder why qdoteledildonics hasn't merged in my branch yet | 16:50 |
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| * strangewarp sidles up to a stranger wearing Google Glass on the subway | 16:50 | |
| strangewarp | "ok glass, search for tubgirl" | 16:50 |
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| kanzure | superkuh is not solid state yet | 16:52 |
| brownies | hopefully glass does voice recognition so not anyone can command your own glass? | 16:56 |
| brownies | otherwise it would be a really shitty MVP | 16:56 |
| kanzure | but that would mean you can't hand your device to someone else to play with | 16:57 |
| kanzure | it's probably doing the jawbone sound thing? | 16:57 |
| brownies | i don't want other people getting their grubby face on it | 16:58 |
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| strangewarp | Eventually I will run my entire live music setup off a Glass-like device (for HUD) and a RasPi-like device (for MIDI software and USB devices). Until then.. glancing diagonally at a laptop | 17:15 |
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| kanzure | huh, i didn't know that eidetic memory was considered unproven | 17:40 |
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| @fenn | the CLARITY technique makes for some great brain porn, if you haven't seen the mouse hippocampus video yet: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-NMfp13Uug | 17:43 |
| @fenn | i wonder what keeps membrane-bound proteins from washing out along with the lipids | 17:45 |
| kanzure | i think the proteins get attached to the hydrogel | 17:45 |
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| kanzure | paperbot: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S002839320400301X | 18:19 |
| paperbot | no translator available, raw dump: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/Recollection%20of%20vivid%20memories%20after%20perirhinal%20region%20stimulations%3A%20synchronization%20in%20the%20theta%20range%20of%20spatially%20distributed%20brain%20areas.pdf | 18:19 |
| kanzure | paperbot: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2889679/pdf/fnhum-04-00046.pdf | 18:26 |
| paperbot | no translator available, raw dump: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/664a7fef7c56221148ab75759d29f431.pdf | 18:26 |
| kanzure | that's a really neat article. it's a review of 100 years of electrical brain stimulation literature. | 18:31 |
| superkuh | Yoink. | 18:34 |
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| kanzure | "We are located in Seattle, WA. The project is headed by Bergen McMurray (Co-Director) and Katriona Guthrie-Honea (Co-Director). Bergen is a student of neuroscience and has worked with the Allen Institute for Brain Science and Jigsaw Renaissance. Katriona is a student at Ingraham High School and an intern at the Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center." | 19:35 |
| kanzure | hooray maybe we will get a mole at allen brain institute | 19:35 |
| kanzure | http://www.synbio.org.uk/component/content/article/46-instrumentation-news/2725-microincubator-for-long-term-live-cell-microscopy-and-hypoxic-culture.html | 19:42 |
| brownies | why do you need a mole? | 19:42 |
| kanzure | because it's a brain probing organization funded by a billionaire? | 19:43 |
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| kanzure | "Along with his sister Jo Lynn, Allen pledged $100 million in 2003 to found the Allen Institute for Brain Science, a nonprofit corporation (501(c) (3)) and medical research organization. Utilizing the mouse model system (given its great similarity to human DNA), 20,000 genes in the adult mouse brain were mapped to a cellular level for the Allen Brain Atlas. The data generated from this effort is contained in the free and publicly available ... | 19:47 |
| kanzure | ... Allen Brain Atlas application." | 19:48 |
| kanzure | "On July 16, 2008, Allen launched a $41 million online "Allen Spinal Cord Atlas" mouse gene map." | 19:48 |
| kanzure | "In March 2012 he continued the funding of the Allen Institute for Brain Science with a contribution of $300 million to look at how we see." | 19:48 |
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| abetusk | When searching for 'open hardware' from the list of channels, this channel is only one of two that show up | 20:09 |
| kanzure | there used to be #openhardware but nothing happens in there | 20:10 |
| kanzure | #reprap is probably the largest open hardware channel | 20:10 |
| kanzure | #qi-hardware is the one with the most money or income | 20:11 |
| kanzure | and #hackerspaces has the most global reach | 20:11 |
| abetusk | interesting | 20:12 |
| abetusk | thanks | 20:12 |
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| kanzure | there's also #makerbot #lemoncurry and a number of other project-specific channels | 20:13 |
| abetusk | sure, but open hardware specifically | 20:13 |
| kanzure | reprap. 447 users. | 20:13 |
| abetusk | oshwa, for example, doesn't have a channel | 20:14 |
| abetusk | at least, not on freenode | 20:14 |
| kanzure | the oshwa people are not the types to use irc :( | 20:14 |
| Viper168 | haters | 20:15 |
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| AshleyWaffle | does anyone know how practical appearance modifying (nano? perhaps slightly bigger than nano) bots are? | 21:37 |
| AshleyWaffle | at this point, anyway | 21:38 |
| brownies | i can put a Sony Aibo on my head | 21:38 |
| kanzure | have you considered surgery | 21:38 |
| AshleyWaffle | Lol | 21:39 |
| AshleyWaffle | kanzure: it doesn't work for some things though (or at least not as well), like height | 21:39 |
| AshleyWaffle | or {foot,hand,shoulder,everything} size | 21:39 |
| kanzure | have you considered hormones? | 21:39 |
| AshleyWaffle | kanzure: yeah, that can help with SOME stuff | 21:40 |
| AshleyWaffle | less than you might think | 21:40 |
| AshleyWaffle | not nearly a "magic pill" | 21:40 |
| AshleyWaffle | there's apparently FFS for every facial feature, but I don't know what quality | 21:40 |
| AshleyWaffle | (face feminzation surgery == FFS) | 21:40 |
| kanzure | i didn't say it was magic | 21:40 |
| AshleyWaffle | well | 21:42 |
| AshleyWaffle | I assume nano bots are relative magic | 21:42 |
| AshleyWaffle | "Any sufficient technology seems like magic" - Whoever | 21:43 |
| AshleyWaffle | I mean at this level, changing such relatively basic appearance features should (and PARTIALLY is already) fairly trivial | 21:43 |
| AshleyWaffle | not turning into an octupus or anything lol | 21:43 |
| @fenn | how about a face transplant | 21:44 |
| @fenn | hundreds of faces going into the dumpster every day | 21:45 |
| kanzure | thanks to face off | 21:45 |
| kanzure | here, read some nanotech science http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/nanotech/ | 21:45 |
| AshleyWaffle | fenn: can't do a "height" transplant though :( | 21:46 |
| @fenn | AshleyWaffle: maybe in 5 years we'll have usable "3d printed" tissue, but until then it's the same old meat cleaver routine | 21:46 |
| AshleyWaffle | I can wait 5 years | 21:47 |
| @fenn | you can modify height, it's just expensive and extremely painful | 21:47 |
| AshleyWaffle | fenn: yeah... by the time I'd recover (if), they'd be able to 3d print a new body for me | 21:47 |
| @fenn | as much as i love that scene in the fifth element, it's not going to happen any time soon | 21:49 |
| @fenn | also there's the whole problem of identity | 21:49 |
| kanzure | identity? | 21:50 |
| @fenn | you know, the forking problem | 21:50 |
| @fenn | if you make a perfect copy, which one's "the real you" | 21:50 |
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| @fenn | if you delete the original is it murder (or suicide) or whatever | 21:50 |
| @fenn | things for your sister to argue about with her college buddies | 21:51 |
| kanzure | why phantomjs doesn't have Function.prototype.bind https://groups.google.com/d/msg/phantomjs/r0hPOmnCUpc/uxusqsl2LNoJ | 21:52 |
| AshleyWaffle | I think bitcoin's fall is good timing | 21:56 |
| AshleyWaffle | cause now the people looking into it after the hype | 21:56 |
| kanzure | please keep bitcoin talk to #bitcoin-price | 21:56 |
| AshleyWaffle | can get a good price | 21:56 |
| AshleyWaffle | er... | 21:56 |
| AshleyWaffle | is that a rule? 0_o | 21:56 |
| kanzure | sort of. sure. why not. | 21:56 |
| kanzure | everyone in agreement about banning bitcoin? | 21:56 |
| AshleyWaffle | lol | 21:56 |
| yashgaroth | aye | 21:56 |
| kanzure | also banning lol while we're at it | 21:56 |
| AshleyWaffle | and silence? | 21:57 |
| kanzure | been meaning to do that one for a while | 21:57 |
| kanzure | no silence is fine | 21:57 |
| AshleyWaffle | o_o | 21:57 |
| kanzure | i think that word is useful | 21:57 |
| kanzure | do you disagree? | 21:57 |
| AshleyWaffle | yes | 21:57 |
| kanzure | you are against silence? | 21:57 |
| AshleyWaffle | mmhmm | 22:01 |
| AshleyWaffle | LOUDNESS IS PATRICIAN! :D | 22:01 |
| AshleyWaffle | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OATPtXONrt4 | 22:01 |
| kanzure | .title | 22:03 |
| yoleaux | NOVAkILL - DEADinside (live) - YouTube | 22:03 |
| kanzure | what? | 22:03 |
| AshleyWaffle | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XibCSxvwT9s | 22:03 |
| AshleyWaffle | .title | 22:03 |
| yoleaux | GRENDEL: Guilt By Association - YouTube | 22:03 |
| AshleyWaffle | electro-industrial | 22:04 |
| AshleyWaffle | come to think of it, the genre was recommended to me by another agorist transhumanist friend | 22:04 |
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| AshleyWaffle | Aldenious: nibble :D | 22:05 |
| AshleyWaffle | alden's mah friend | 22:05 |
| AshleyWaffle | he's a monarchist | 22:06 |
| Aldenious | AshleyWaffle, Rawr! | 22:06 |
| Aldenious | lol | 22:06 |
| AshleyWaffle | lol | 22:06 |
| kanzure | please no lol | 22:06 |
| Aldenious | not really | 22:06 |
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| AshleyWaffle | :( | 22:06 |
| Aldenious | i'm a objectivist. | 22:06 |
| AshleyWaffle | Aldenious: well you called ME a monarchist | 22:06 |
| @fenn | -_- | 22:06 |
| Aldenious | AshleyWaffle, i was jokinh, calm down :P | 22:06 |
| * AshleyWaffle was never de-calmed | 22:07 | |
| Aldenious | the royal we! | 22:07 |
| @kanzure | fenn: what do i do | 22:07 |
| AshleyWaffle | all the royals | 22:07 |
| AshleyWaffle | kanzure: replicating like rabits lol | 22:07 |
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| AshleyWaffle | hey :( | 22:07 |
| AshleyWaffle | what did I do? | 22:07 |
| @kanzure | i was very clear about it | 22:07 |
| AshleyWaffle | about...? | 22:08 |
| @kanzure | i don't know how i can possibly be more clear than that | 22:08 |
| Aldenious | i think he's geting anoyed. | 22:08 |
| * Aldenious shrugs. | 22:08 | |
| AshleyWaffle | Aldenious: by? | 22:08 |
| Aldenious | not sure. | 22:08 |
| @kanzure | you two are really bad at reading | 22:08 |
| AshleyWaffle | ohhh | 22:09 |
| AshleyWaffle | you were saying "ell oh ell" is against the rules... | 22:09 |
| AshleyWaffle | which I don't get at all | 22:09 |
| @fenn | also the SNR dropped by about 20 dB | 22:09 |
| Aldenious | kanzure> please no lol: no political discusion? | 22:09 |
| @kanzure | it means no "lol" | 22:09 |
| AshleyWaffle | ... | 22:09 |
| AshleyWaffle | statist oppressor | 22:09 |
| @kanzure | why are you here? can you leave? | 22:09 |
| AshleyWaffle | monarchist! | 22:09 |
| AshleyWaffle | I'm just idling, ParahSailin invited me | 22:10 |
| @kanzure | this is not how you idle | 22:10 |
| AshleyWaffle | yeah, I occasionally (gasp) speak, and then I get quiet again | 22:10 |
| Aldenious | he's asking us to keep politcis out of here, thats oki by me. | 22:10 |
| AshleyWaffle | from my observations, that's... normal by irc standards | 22:10 |
| jrayhawk_ | HI EVERYONE <<<HUGS>>> A/S/L | 22:10 |
| @kanzure | no, filling a channel with gibberish is not normal. get out. | 22:10 |
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| yashgaroth | lol | 22:11 |
| yashgaroth | OH GOD IT'S SPREADING | 22:11 |
| @fenn | squee! | 22:11 |
| yashgaroth | help | 22:11 |
| @kanzure | XD XD XD 16f cali | 22:11 |
| AshleyWaffle | jrayhawk: I'm 237, I live in DC, and I'm all the sexes | 22:11 |
| Aldenious | o.O. 19m NZ? o.O | 22:11 |
| @kanzure | we were being sarcastic. what we really meant was shut up. | 22:11 |
| AshleyWaffle | ohhh | 22:12 |
| * Aldenious shuted up >>. | 22:12 | |
| AshleyWaffle | why have a channel if people can't talk | 22:12 |
| AshleyWaffle | not only that but the topic seems to suit "silly" populations... | 22:12 |
| jrayhawk | kanz ur so mean :pout: | 22:12 |
| Aldenious | i'd disagree sorta AshleyWaffle | 22:12 |
| @kanzure | you are not being silly, you're being low signal | 22:12 |
| AshleyWaffle | :pout: | 22:12 |
| Aldenious | i think the topic's quiet serious. | 22:12 |
| AshleyWaffle | Aldenious: nice pun | 22:12 |
| Aldenious | i didn't intend a pun? o.O | 22:13 |
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| @kanzure | yashgaroth: suggestions please | 22:13 |
| yashgaroth | kill them, kill them all | 22:13 |
| AshleyWaffle | yashgaroth: you said lol | 22:13 |
| AshleyWaffle | banhammer | 22:13 |
| yashgaroth | but then that's my solution to everything | 22:13 |
| AshleyWaffle | oh god I just said it too! | 22:13 |
| * Aldenious sighs, curls up, and hmms | 22:13 | |
| AshleyWaffle | Aldenious: Silence! Humming is not allowed! | 22:14 |
| * Aldenious eyerolls. | 22:14 | |
| @kanzure | if you two have any projects you'd like to share, we're listening. otherwise get out. | 22:14 |
| @fenn | so. 3d printed bodies. your tax dollars at work, the only useful results from the visible human project: http://www.criticalcommons.org/Members/JLipshin/clips/the-fifth-element-and-the-cyborg | 22:14 |
| Aldenious | well, actuly, i was just talking about artifical intelience on another channel. | 22:14 |
| @kanzure | artificial intelligence is also banned. | 22:14 |
| Aldenious | i'm a compsci? >>. | 22:15 |
| @kanzure | you don't sound comp sci | 22:15 |
| Aldenious | i am very much a computer science student. | 22:15 |
| @kanzure | if you were really comp sci then you would say machine learning | 22:15 |
| @fenn | there is in fact a difference | 22:15 |
| @kanzure | which is categorically different from "artificial intelligence" | 22:15 |
| Aldenious | no, i mean artificial intelligence. | 22:15 |
| Aldenious | i understand the difference | 22:15 |
| @kanzure | right, artificial intelligence is the one that nobody knows anything about | 22:15 |
| Aldenious | but i mean artifical inteigence | 22:15 |
| @kanzure | and that is the one that goes nowhere | 22:16 |
| @kanzure | and that nobody can appropriately talk about | 22:16 |
| @fenn | if you want to be really nerdy you talk about game theory | 22:16 |
| Aldenious | usually, yes. | 22:16 |
| jrayhawk | hey guys want to talk about the singularity man that ray kurzweil guy is so amazing | 22:16 |
| Aldenious | except i may have recently pinned it to something faitly specific. | 22:16 |
| @fenn | jrayhawk: omg did u see the movie | 22:16 |
| yashgaroth | guys I am so totally getting nanobots to make me like 10 feet tall | 22:17 |
| AshleyWaffle | meanwhile, /me is forming a mutiny... | 22:19 |
| AshleyWaffle | jrayhawk: he's so patrician | 22:19 |
| AshleyWaffle | yashgaroth: or to have ten feet! (teen feet?) | 22:19 |
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| @kanzure | ParahSailin: your friends suck dude | 22:23 |
| @kanzure | ParahSailin: why did you bring them in here | 22:23 |
| venturecommunism | hey bryan | 22:23 |
| @kanzure | yes? | 22:24 |
| venturecommunism | how's the dependency management system for OSHW coming | 22:24 |
| @kanzure | needs more developers. | 22:24 |
| venturecommunism | i remember you were working on that at some point | 22:24 |
| Aldenious | OSHW? | 22:24 |
| venturecommunism | i'm working on dependency management for tasks, but it's not in python | 22:25 |
| venturecommunism | http://meteor.com | 22:25 |
| @kanzure | you raised $12M? | 22:25 |
| venturecommunism | the idea is to be interoperable with http://taskwarrior.org | 22:25 |
| AshleyWaffle | venturecommunism: rule 1, no "lol", rule 2, no artificial intelligence, rule 3 no bitcoin, rule 4, this is not an irc channel, this is a place for peace and tranquility | 22:26 |
| @kanzure | i highly doubt that you are behind meteor | 22:26 |
| AshleyWaffle | kanzure: I think you're a troll | 22:26 |
| venturecommunism | i'm not trying to imply i'm behind meteor | 22:26 |
| venturecommunism | i'm saying that instead of writing the thing i'm writing in python i'm writing it in meteor | 22:26 |
| @kanzure | i don't think a todo list is the right format for expressing hardware dependencies | 22:27 |
| venturecommunism | well you're focused on the interfaces right? | 22:27 |
| @kanzure | s/expressing/representing/ | 22:27 |
| @kanzure | not at the moment no | 22:27 |
| venturecommunism | conceptually though? | 22:27 |
| venturecommunism | what's your focus now anyway | 22:27 |
| @kanzure | right now skdb could use some honest architecture review from other developers | 22:28 |
| @kanzure | also it could use smaller tools that work really well on specific problems instead of one monolithic tool that is supposed to do everything | 22:28 |
| @kanzure | furthermore it would be really cool if more people tried to package all the open source hardware out there | 22:28 |
| @kanzure | that would be very helpful | 22:28 |
| venturecommunism | definitely | 22:28 |
| * fenn puts in a request for a decent open source cad program while we're at it | 22:28 | |
| venturecommunism | i was thinking of mass producing http://shapeoko.com routers as an open participation mass collaborative enterprise | 22:29 |
| venturecommunism | in nyc | 22:29 |
| @kanzure | why does it have to be in nyc wtf | 22:29 |
| venturecommunism | so that would involve curating and versioning that better, video i'd hope, etc. | 22:29 |
| @kanzure | and why shapeoko in particular.. that also strikes me as odd. | 22:29 |
| venturecommunism | i'm very open to that shapeoko is not right | 22:29 |
| venturecommunism | in fact the biggest piece i'd say i'm missing at the moment is to fit my particular logistical situation of nyc, occupy sandy warehouses, etc. | 22:30 |
| @kanzure | what? | 22:30 |
| venturecommunism | to a specific product | 22:30 |
| venturecommunism | i have a link to the concept, one sec | 22:30 |
| venturecommunism | http://venturecommunism.com/document/plan-local-manufacturing-using-example-product-shapeoko | 22:30 |
| @kanzure | what is the point of this | 22:31 |
| venturecommunism | massive onboarding of open source hardware people would be nice | 22:31 |
| venturecommunism | popularizing the concept not just of OSHW but open source business models | 22:32 |
| venturecommunism | for worker cooperatives | 22:32 |
| @kanzure | "p2p flash manufacturing"... no thanks. not interested. | 22:32 |
| venturecommunism | little buzzwordy, ok | 22:32 |
| @kanzure | sigh | 22:32 |
| @fenn | i think you should reorganize your draft with an outline at the top that explains 1) goal/problem definition 2) method/solution | 22:32 |
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| venturecommunism | problem definition, people need skills, money and step by step instructions for how to arrive at the open source hardware solution through first hand experience, some mass movement, some visibility | 22:33 |
| @kanzure | there are already business models that work with open source software/hardware | 22:33 |
| @kanzure | it doesn't really "need popularizing" in the first place.. who cares. | 22:33 |
| venturecommunism | anyway right now i'm in the early stages of planning how to gamify an online technical school for OS hardware | 22:36 |
| @kanzure | ugh you're a redditor aren't you | 22:36 |
| venturecommunism | not until a few months ago | 22:37 |
| venturecommunism | ~3 | 22:37 |
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| @kanzure | fenn: huh one of the langton labs guys did meteor | 22:39 |
| @kanzure | glasser i think | 22:39 |
| @kanzure | hmm "Geoff is the proprietor of Monument, a 24-unit live/work community for scientists and artists, currently being built in a converted warehouse in San Francisco" | 22:41 |
| @kanzure | phage should infect that and take it over | 22:41 |
| venturecommunism | i think geoff is the one who has comments in the code that say "Stand back, I'm going to try SCIENCE" | 22:42 |
| venturecommunism | meteor's getting better documented over here: http://www.eventedmind.com/ | 22:42 |
| venturecommunism | anyway i'm a beginner to javascript | 22:43 |
| @kanzure | how about instead of all this social stuff you write some code or review the package format or something | 22:43 |
| @kanzure | bleh | 22:43 |
| venturecommunism | been up 40 hours tonight writing code | 22:43 |
| venturecommunism | to gamify open source hardware incubation | 22:44 |
| @kanzure | that makes me sad. | 22:44 |
| venturecommunism | you know i have looked at skdb before? | 22:44 |
| venturecommunism | it was a year or two ago | 22:44 |
| @kanzure | gamification isn't going to make a thousand packages spring up | 22:45 |
| @kanzure | nor will "in app payments" | 22:45 |
| venturecommunism | it's little work for me to do in app payments since i'm just piggybacking off http://payswarm.com | 22:45 |
| venturecommunism | which already has a node.js client, it works fine | 22:46 |
| @kanzure | just because it's easy doesn't mean it makes sense | 22:46 |
| @kanzure | wtf dude | 22:46 |
| venturecommunism | what's the harm | 22:46 |
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| @kanzure | wasting time on bullshit when you could be working on more important things | 22:46 |
| @kanzure | that's the harm. | 22:47 |
| venturecommunism | i'm open to what you think i should be doing | 22:47 |
| venturecommunism | i asked what's happened lately on skdb since i saw it a year ago | 22:47 |
| @kanzure | i gave you some very explicit answers | 22:47 |
| AshleyWaffle | kanzure: how hard is biohacking? | 22:47 |
| AshleyWaffle | sorry for being silly earlier | 22:47 |
| venturecommunism | make packages, well i was going to "package" shapeoko but maybe not in the skdb sense of a package since the two don't relate | 22:47 |
| venturecommunism | and now i find out shapeoko is awful and i'm glad to hear that because i've wanted input on that for a while | 22:48 |
| @kanzure | what is this second sense of package that you are talking about? | 22:48 |
| @kanzure | AshleyWaffle: have you worked in a biology lab ever? | 22:48 |
| AshleyWaffle | Not really | 22:49 |
| AshleyWaffle | so no | 22:49 |
| venturecommunism | my goal is to document well enough to bootstrap a flurry of activity that would be grounds for getting the high hanging CAD fruit, the circuitry, the 10 or 12 different kinds of open hardware data | 22:49 |
| @kanzure | AshleyWaffle: have you studied any biology ever? | 22:50 |
| @kanzure | venturecommunism: that doesn't answer my question | 22:50 |
| AshleyWaffle | Yeah, I'm in a biology class now in fact | 22:50 |
| AshleyWaffle | But not much | 22:50 |
| @kanzure | high school biology? | 22:50 |
| AshleyWaffle | yeah, I'm in high school biology now | 22:50 |
| AshleyWaffle | it's fairly interesting stuff | 22:51 |
| @kanzure | okay. i recommend throwing away your text book and reading these: http://diyhpl.us/wiki/diybio/faq/books | 22:51 |
| venturecommunism | i mean basics like bill of materials, URLs for parts suppliers for off the shelf parts, CAD files for the parts that are currently susceptible economically and logistically for large numbers of people to local manufacturing | 22:51 |
| @kanzure | *textbook | 22:51 |
| AshleyWaffle | hehe thanks | 22:51 |
| @kanzure | venturecommunism: i think a good first step would be to make tools that work with that file format | 22:51 |
| @kanzure | venturecommunism: thingdoc is very lonely all by itself | 22:51 |
| AshleyWaffle | kanzure: 404 http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/bio/books/Molecular%20Biology%20of%20the%20Gene%20-%202006.pdf | 22:51 |
| @kanzure | AshleyWaffle: also you should read http://diyhpl.us/wiki/diybio/faq or edit it when you see something wrong | 22:51 |
| @kanzure | AshleyWaffle: use the other ones | 22:52 |
| AshleyWaffle | yeah, there's a 404 for that one | 22:52 |
| AshleyWaffle | okay | 22:52 |
| venturecommunism | i'll look at the specs again, see what i can do | 22:52 |
| @kanzure | venturecommunism: i don't think you should skip straight to in-app payments when all the other tools are undefined | 22:52 |
| venturecommunism | i'm not spending time on in-app payment, i'm getting everything else started | 22:52 |
| @kanzure | venturecommunism: just because you can string certain words together doesn't mean they are communicating anything.. same goes with code. | 22:52 |
| venturecommunism | the gamified environment could be coursera.org as much as some kind of package manager | 22:52 |
| @kanzure | i don't think that makes any sense. | 22:53 |
| venturecommunism | where's the online technical school for OSHW? | 22:53 |
| @kanzure | why would there have to be a school? unschool. | 22:53 |
| venturecommunism | coursera is unschool to me | 22:53 |
| @kanzure | coursera is a pile of horseshit | 22:53 |
| AshleyWaffle | kanzure: unschooling. I'm with you | 22:53 |
| @kanzure | have you ever tried their offerings? it's just hours of bullshit video. | 22:53 |
| venturecommunism | yeah i like their course on gamification | 22:54 |
| venturecommunism | i agree that it's crap compared to what's needed | 22:54 |
| @kanzure | video is nothing like package management | 22:54 |
| @kanzure | i think you are on drugs and crazy | 22:54 |
| venturecommunism | where's the electrical box set, where's the plumbing box set | 22:54 |
| @kanzure | what? | 22:54 |
| AshleyWaffle | venturecommunism: seriously, what are you talking about | 22:54 |
| venturecommunism | i didn't say video was like package management. i said that a gamified meteor.js realtime collaborative portal for open source hardware workers' coops could be a technical school, a package manager | 22:55 |
| @kanzure | i am not convinced that you know what a package manager is | 22:55 |
| venturecommunism | i don't know of any good electrical or plumbing courses online in video | 22:55 |
| venturecommunism | a package manager for open source hardware? other than skdb i don't know of any | 22:55 |
| venturecommunism | other than that i like conary | 22:56 |
| @kanzure | if you want to make videos for learning plumbing that's cool but you should use different words to say that | 22:56 |
| venturecommunism | i'm willing to adapt how i speak for the sake of clarity, sure | 22:56 |
| AshleyWaffle | kanzure: what do you mean by package manager in this context? like apt? | 22:56 |
| @kanzure | AshleyWaffle: http://gnusha.org/skdb | 22:56 |
| venturecommunism | so feel free to let me know what would make it more clear | 22:56 |
| @kanzure | i don't see how watching videos has anything to do with computers figuring out dependencies | 22:57 |
| @kanzure | or why i would want your "realtime collaborative portal". | 22:57 |
| venturecommunism | need visibility to attract experts | 22:57 |
| venturecommunism | a purpose, a war effort, motivation | 22:57 |
| @kanzure | visibility does not attract experts. | 22:57 |
| venturecommunism | i don't know how you can disconfirm that it does, but i've been operating under the assumption that it might | 22:58 |
| @kanzure | instead of hoping for experts to show up how about you gain smoe damn expertise yourself. geeze. | 22:58 |
| @kanzure | *some | 22:58 |
| venturecommunism | do you think there's value in product selection metrics a la OSE? | 22:59 |
| AshleyWaffle | kanzure: what book should I be reading first? | 22:59 |
| venturecommunism | as a communication device? | 22:59 |
| @kanzure | AshleyWaffle: all of them. they are difficult to read one at a time. | 22:59 |
| @kanzure | venturecommunism: i think OSE is terrible at open source hardware. | 22:59 |
| AshleyWaffle | I don't understand... How else would I read them? | 23:00 |
| @kanzure | i don't know what you mean by "product selection metrics" | 23:00 |
| venturecommunism | http://opensourceecology.org/wiki/Product_Selection_Metric | 23:00 |
| @kanzure | AshleyWaffle: it's possible to read multiple books at the same time.. you don't have to "finish" one.. | 23:00 |
| venturecommunism | kanzure: could you elaborate on OSE being terrible at that? | 23:00 |
| AshleyWaffle | kanzure: I guess I've never tried that... | 23:01 |
| @kanzure | venturecommunism: OSE has publicly admitted recently that they don't even believe in schematics | 23:01 |
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| @kanzure | venturecommunism: OSE is probably the absolute worst role model you can pick for open source hardware | 23:01 |
| @kanzure | now excuse me while i watch my dbz movie trailer https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MlmbmNZP9s | 23:02 |
| venturecommunism | well they've done SOME things | 23:02 |
| venturecommunism | kanzure: and they're seeking collaboration in effective ways | 23:02 |
| @kanzure | hahah effective | 23:02 |
| @kanzure | dude wtf | 23:02 |
| AshleyWaffle | kanzure: all I can say is their site looks cool. | 23:03 |
| AshleyWaffle | but that doesn't say much | 23:03 |
| @kanzure | AshleyWaffle: who's site? | 23:03 |
| venturecommunism | kanzure: can you link me to something you think i should read then? | 23:03 |
| AshleyWaffle | kanzure: OSE's | 23:03 |
| AshleyWaffle | I mean, it's well marketed in that sense I guess | 23:04 |
| @kanzure | AshleyWaffle: they are trying to do hardware projects without schematics and just by dumping in lots of text into wikis. that's not how you do real hardware projects. | 23:04 |
| venturecommunism | but it's how you put more eyes on the problem | 23:04 |
| @kanzure | venturecommunism: i think prusa's reprap git repos are really good examples | 23:04 |
| AshleyWaffle | Yeah, I noticed that when I looked deeper into the wiki | 23:04 |
| @kanzure | venturecommunism: no. eyes on their problem haven't solved it. | 23:04 |
| venturecommunism | it's how you put real skills BODILY into people | 23:04 |
| @kanzure | venturecommunism: nope. they are still just as bad as they were when they ignored our advice years ago. and fenn's even earlier. | 23:05 |
| @kanzure | fuck 'em | 23:05 |
| @kanzure | they will die in their own miserable non-version controlled non-computerized hell | 23:05 |
| venturecommunism | kanzure: what do you think the role of JSON-LD or OWL etc. might play here? | 23:06 |
| venturecommunism | iow what about working on the linked data problem per se | 23:06 |
| venturecommunism | maybe payments is the killer app | 23:06 |
| @kanzure | owl? the format? | 23:06 |
| venturecommunism | the concept that maybe even though it's been however many decades in the making we're near some useful applications of linked data | 23:07 |
| venturecommunism | i dunno your stance on it | 23:07 |
| @kanzure | i think it's overkill. | 23:07 |
| @kanzure | do you have any experience making any packages for any system ever? | 23:07 |
| venturecommunism | software? | 23:07 |
| @kanzure | sure | 23:08 |
| venturecommunism | some | 23:08 |
| @kanzure | like what? | 23:08 |
| venturecommunism | i was a drupal developer for a bunch of years | 23:08 |
| @kanzure | i'm sorry. | 23:08 |
| venturecommunism | i've moved on as you can see | 23:08 |
| @kanzure | i don't think drupal has a sane packaging system, but i haven't looked in a few years. | 23:08 |
| venturecommunism | meteor has a great one | 23:08 |
| venturecommunism | in the making | 23:09 |
| @kanzure | i recommend looking into nodejs modules since you seem to like those. | 23:09 |
| @kanzure | then move on to looking at how debian packages work. | 23:09 |
| @kanzure | including their maintainers and the maintainers' motivations. | 23:09 |
| venturecommunism | utter specificity to induce laborless onboarding of small contributions? | 23:10 |
| venturecommunism | DAGs | 23:10 |
| venturecommunism | clear divisions between versions so people don't plan half the parts from version .8 and half the parts from 1.2 | 23:12 |
| venturecommunism | i mean i could probably get shapeoko into yaml | 23:15 |
| venturecommunism | if you think it's worth it | 23:15 |
| @kanzure | there might be a simpler solution than yaml | 23:15 |
| @kanzure | i think it would be more useful to review the current tools and figure out simpler, smaller solutions for specific problems. | 23:15 |
| @kanzure | but if you hate that then yes a package of shapeoko would be nice | 23:16 |
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| venturecommunism | well yaml's pretty easy, i don't know what would be simpler | 23:16 |
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| @kanzure | just because it's easy doesn't mean it's a good idea | 23:16 |
| @kanzure | there were these terrible objects that we sprinkled into the yaml files | 23:16 |
| @kanzure | and nobody called me out on it | 23:16 |
| @kanzure | you people are all awful | 23:16 |
| venturecommunism | i'm not even sure we should be doing shapeoko, i'm open to suggestions | 23:17 |
| venturecommunism | very | 23:17 |
| venturecommunism | the purpose is to create paid work for people hit by sandy, basically | 23:18 |
| @kanzure | .. what? | 23:18 |
| venturecommunism | all kinds of intermediate purposes to other goals here but we have some occupy sandy resources, physical spaces, money | 23:18 |
| venturecommunism | masses of people who would be motivated by a collaborative open hardware production run | 23:19 |
| AshleyWaffle | kanzure: I've been reading some of "Molecular Biology of a Cell" | 23:19 |
| AshleyWaffle | are the complicated terms at the beginning explained later? | 23:20 |
| AshleyWaffle | or is there something else I should read first that better explains some of that | 23:20 |
| yashgaroth | can you give an example of a term | 23:21 |
| @kanzure | you should ask better questions like including the words that you hate | 23:21 |
| @kanzure | biology is basically science barf and it takes a while to learn how to read it | 23:21 |
| AshleyWaffle | yashgaroth: "amino acids, sugars, and the purines and pyrimidines required to make nucleotides." | 23:22 |
| AshleyWaffle | I'm aware that amino acids are the building blocks of proteins | 23:22 |
| AshleyWaffle | and I know sugars are used in DNA (right?) | 23:22 |
| AshleyWaffle | I'm missing the rest | 23:22 |
| yashgaroth | well try reading up on the relevant wikipedia articles when you get stuck | 23:23 |
| AshleyWaffle | okay | 23:23 |
| AshleyWaffle | thanks | 23:23 |
| yashgaroth | I'd recommend a chemistry textbook, but that shit's even worse than bio | 23:23 |
| @kanzure | no way. it tends to be better organized. | 23:23 |
| @kanzure | purines and pyramidines are just the two classes of complementary base pair nucleotide | 23:24 |
| @kanzure | btw there are also thousands of youtube videos about these | 23:26 |
| AshleyWaffle | I think I'm getting the "basic idea" so far though: on the violent/chaotic early Earth, so many crazy chemical reactions were able to occur that inevitably SOMEWHERE and in all that time, some autocatylitic molecules had to do better than their competitors. it seems to refer to these as sort of semi-alive. | 23:26 |
| AshleyWaffle | ah | 23:26 |
| AshleyWaffle | off to youtube with me | 23:26 |
| venturecommunism | kanzure: is there an equivalent concept to a URI in skdb? | 23:27 |
| venturecommunism | does the file name "costco_tote_dimensions" encode machine readable information itself? | 23:28 |
| @kanzure | i think that is a bad file name | 23:28 |
| venturecommunism | wouldn't that be an i18n problem? | 23:28 |
| AshleyWaffle | kanzure: did that summary sound about right so far? | 23:28 |
| @kanzure | here's the formal skdb spec http://gnusha.org/skdb/package_spec.html | 23:28 |
| @kanzure | if you have a better idea for a minimal packaging tool then speak up | 23:28 |
| venturecommunism | JSON-LD? | 23:29 |
| @kanzure | AshleyWaffle: sort of. i would read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RNA_world_hypothesis if you cared about that. | 23:29 |
| venturecommunism | have an OWL ontology sitting there in theory but really use JSON-LD for most applications | 23:29 |
| @kanzure | i don't think an ontology should be necessary. | 23:29 |
| venturecommunism | without URIs i could imagine coming across problems | 23:30 |
| venturecommunism | anyway reading the spec | 23:30 |
| @kanzure | why | 23:30 |
| AshleyWaffle | kanzure: it does intrigue me | 23:31 |
| venturecommunism | the universality of the resource indicator. that if the canonical link goes down it can be mirrored in a convenient way, consumed by web apps, etc. | 23:31 |
| AshleyWaffle | kanzure: how much into unschooling are you? | 23:31 |
| venturecommunism | makes the data more useful to interoperate with the rest of linked data potentially | 23:31 |
| AshleyWaffle | not only that, how much else have I been doing wrong (eg. instinct to read books in order) | 23:32 |
| @kanzure | AshleyWaffle: i don't really know much about unschooling. i just don't like schools. they tend to be broken. | 23:34 |
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| @kanzure | venturecommunism: debian packages seem to work just fine without requiring explicit uris. | 23:34 |
| venturecommunism | conary is better, and it's made better by rpath although it's proprietary, because they do this kind of thing | 23:35 |
| AshleyWaffle | kanzure: what's the alternative, specifically? | 23:35 |
| @kanzure | AshleyWaffle: learning whatever you want whenever you want to ? | 23:35 |
| AshleyWaffle | sounds about right | 23:35 |
| AshleyWaffle | but, if you just bounce around from thing to thing, how can you produce any productive results? | 23:36 |
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| venturecommunism | AshleyWaffle: it's better to bounce around as required than to sit for hours needlessly | 23:36 |
| AshleyWaffle | That I agree with | 23:36 |
| @kanzure | the same can be asked about schools. those curriculums are the weakest shit i've ever had the displeasure of being subjected to. | 23:36 |
| AshleyWaffle | kanzure: Agreed | 23:37 |
| AshleyWaffle | So if schools are bad | 23:37 |
| AshleyWaffle | And "bouncing around" can also be disorganized | 23:37 |
| AshleyWaffle | What remains? | 23:37 |
| @kanzure | i don't care about bouncing around. | 23:37 |
| AshleyWaffle | What do you mean? | 23:38 |
| @kanzure | is it really so bad that you had to use a dictionary to lookup nucleotide? | 23:38 |
| AshleyWaffle | no | 23:39 |
| @kanzure | also the synthetic biology book on that list might be more interesting to you since the author has a more programming perspective | 23:40 |
| @kanzure | but don't be confused: any synthetic biology person that tells you cells are like computers are liars and should be hanged | 23:40 |
| AshleyWaffle | I'm also guessing that since we're looking at non-life, but fairly complex, molecules gaining complexity | 23:40 |
| @kanzure | then move on to http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/bio/ | 23:40 |
| AshleyWaffle | okay | 23:40 |
| venturecommunism | kanzure: what about building a so-called serious game to mimick a hardware package management system | 23:41 |
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| venturecommunism | or model or utilize or consume, whatever word you want to use | 23:42 |
| AshleyWaffle | kanzure: Um, it's formatted weirdly on my pdf reader... let me try with evince instead | 23:42 |
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| AshleyWaffle | there we go, it works in evince | 23:44 |
| venturecommunism | woot, evince | 23:44 |
| -!- mode/##hplusroadmap [+ri] by kanzure | 23:45 | |
| @kanzure | oh god what | 23:45 |
| -!- mode/##hplusroadmap [-r] by kanzure | 23:46 | |
| AshleyWaffle | what are those modes? | 23:46 |
| -!- mode/##hplusroadmap [-i] by kanzure | 23:46 | |
| -!- mode/##hplusroadmap [+o archels] by kanzure | 23:46 | |
| -!- mode/##hplusroadmap [+o ParahSailin] by kanzure | 23:46 | |
| * kanzure sleeps | 23:46 | |
| @kanzure | http://googleblog.blogspot.in/2013/04/fighting-human-trafficking.html | 23:48 |
| @kanzure | ok now sleep | 23:49 |
| AshleyWaffle | kanzure: night | 23:50 |
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| --- Log closed Thu Apr 11 00:00:54 2013 | ||
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