| --- Log opened Fri Apr 19 00:00:02 2013 | ||
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| eleitl | goddamnit this SEPA crap, lost another 40 EUR due to transfer lag | 01:20 |
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| eleitl | you just can't trade if the platforms are shit | 01:20 |
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| kanzure | spam is getting even stranger " am the sales manager of Hangzhou Fenghe Bio-technology Co., Ltd. We are the manufacturer of APIs and feed additives. We specializes in manufacturing Dinitolmide,Nicarbazine,Robenidine HCl,Clopidol and Enramycin Premix for many years. Now, I am very glad to send this mail to you." | 01:57 |
| kanzure | APIs, you say.. | 01:57 |
| eleitl | there must be a market for highly targeted spam | 02:03 |
| eleitl | but, that's already occupied by Google and Fecesbook | 02:03 |
| nmz787 | kanzure: really that's not just some horrible-english-speaking chinese company from alibaba? | 02:23 |
| kanzure | just because they are on alibaba doesn't mean they don't send out spam | 02:24 |
| nmz787 | http://www.acronymfinder.com/API.html | 02:24 |
| nmz787 | **APIActive Pharma Ingredient | 02:24 |
| nmz787 | Advanced Pharmaceutical Ingredients | 02:24 |
| nmz787 | heh, Advanced Pharmaceutical Ingredients | 02:25 |
| nmz787 | i mean Automated Pellet Inspection | 02:25 |
| nmz787 | definitely something that needed automated | 02:25 |
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| eleitl | yeah, I'm dabbling in pharmaceuticals (supplements) and automation is key there | 02:33 |
| eleitl | plus, eliminate the human as source of contamination | 02:34 |
| kanzure | aren't the margins really shit in that business? | 02:34 |
| eleitl | if you look at the LEF prices, I strongly suspect that it's a money printing machine | 02:35 |
| kanzure | well sure if you attach whatever claims you want to the products | 02:35 |
| eleitl | LEF isn't doing that, they're just science-backed | 02:36 |
| eleitl | everybody else is selling thin gruel for low, low prices | 02:36 |
| kanzure | also in that market there's a lot of misinformation about pricing | 02:36 |
| kanzure | one site has some custom gel pills for $40 another is selling in bulk for $5 | 02:36 |
| kanzure | (depending on supplement of course) | 02:37 |
| eleitl | another niche is personalized pharmaceuticals | 02:37 |
| kanzure | i was working on a search engine that scraped nootropics pricing information | 02:37 |
| eleitl | we need to rev up that part after we've made LEF work | 02:37 |
| eleitl | LEF is difficult to resell, since they're trying to vaccuum up your customers | 02:37 |
| kanzure | considered a daily deal format for a few minutes.. couldn't make the numbers work favorably for supplements. | 02:38 |
| eleitl | many LEF member prices are below reseller prices. Think about that for a moment. | 02:38 |
| kanzure | i think it was LEF that was paying for hplusmagazine advertising space in obscene amounts | 02:38 |
| eleitl | hmm | 02:40 |
| kanzure | eleitl: what is the status of the cypherpunks list? is perry's the only one running? it looks dead. | 02:40 |
| eleitl | al-quaeda.net | 02:40 |
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| kanzure | does al-quaeda apply those recommended procmail filters? | 02:40 |
| eleitl | cypherpunks@al-qaeda.net is the only node that works | 02:40 |
| eleitl | no idea, never got any spam from there | 02:41 |
| kanzure | i was telling fenn the other day that merkle is technically more popular for his work in public key cryptography than his work in nanotechnology (which is hard/weird to remember sometimes) | 02:41 |
| kanzure | it also looks like there's been a drop of discussion on the cryptography list and cypherpunks list, at least in terms of working code. is this accurate? | 02:42 |
| eleitl | yes, there's a slow decline in volume and quality | 02:43 |
| kanzure | lovely. | 02:43 |
| eleitl | after Perry's list went down the second list never quite got up to previous standard | 02:43 |
| kanzure | perry seems like an ok moderator | 02:43 |
| eleitl | re Satoshi, guy is definitely not Japanese, and there have been a lot of speculation, with no conclusive results | 02:43 |
| eleitl | unmasking him will be likely quite difficult, unless he slipped up | 02:44 |
| eleitl | chances are, you already know Satoshi | 02:44 |
| kanzure | his style of writing is very familiar | 02:44 |
| kanzure | some of the phrases he tends to use can be traced back to these mailing list archives from others | 02:45 |
| kanzure | but i don't have complete archives | 02:45 |
| kanzure | he also alliterates sometimes even though he is trying not to | 02:46 |
| kanzure | and he says things like "sorry to be a wet blanket" which turns out to be uncommon | 02:49 |
| kanzure | most people say "sorry to be a wet blanket but" | 02:49 |
| eleitl | you can probably identify him with phrase analysis | 02:50 |
| eleitl | it would be probably not a good idea to | 02:50 |
| kanzure | i have an index of unique phrases that he has written | 02:50 |
| eleitl | he has his reasons to fly under radar | 02:50 |
| kanzure | and various histograms of his posting time | 02:50 |
| eleitl | is he in the US time zone? | 02:50 |
| kanzure | i was thinking i would extract the posting-time histories of people on cryptography/cypherpunks | 02:50 |
| kanzure | could be. might also be UK something like GMT -4. | 02:50 |
| chris_99 | how do you know he's not Japanese eleitl | 02:51 |
| kanzure | if he's japanese then he's probably kenji soita. but i doubt it. | 02:51 |
| eleitl | because others have analyzed his speech, and pegged him to a specific education cluster | 02:51 |
| kanzure | he is very obviously someone who takes cypherpunk to heart | 02:51 |
| eleitl | ask NSA. they know, for sure :) | 02:51 |
| kanzure | he speaks their language very carefully | 02:51 |
| eleitl | there are 3-4 likely candidates for who he might be | 02:52 |
| eleitl | but, why care? he did good. | 02:52 |
| kanzure | adjudicate. nobody uses "adjudicate". | 02:53 |
| eleitl | Geeks use language in whatever way they li.e | 02:53 |
| brownies | whoa, satoshi whatshisface is an alias? hm, i had no idea. | 02:53 |
| kanzure | sopping shenanigans somehow, the problem is that, anywhere near as large as gnutella less and less frequently the longer ago it was independently analysed to be screaming hot | 02:54 |
| kanzure | oh no now i will be identified as satoshi | 02:54 |
| eleitl | Markov chain? | 02:54 |
| kanzure | nah | 02:54 |
| eleitl | if you have a mailbox full of Satoshi I would like to have a copy, please | 02:54 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/bitcoin-satoshi/bitcoin-satoshi.zip | 02:55 |
| eleitl | Thanks! | 02:55 |
| fenn | szabo identifies "the failure of the cypherpunk program" as being due to the inability to enforce decentralized/anonymous contracts | 02:56 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/bitcoin-satoshi/phrases.txt | 02:56 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/bitcoin-satoshi/datetimes.yaml | 02:56 |
| chris_99 | what makes you think it could only be 4 people out of interest eleitl | 02:56 |
| eleitl | 3-4 most likely candidates. I have no particular interest in unmasking the guy. | 02:57 |
| eleitl | Just reporting the gossip. | 02:57 |
| kanzure | eugen has very specific knowledge of individuals in the cryptopunk scene | 02:57 |
| fenn | i still don't get why we never achieved a mainstream trust network | 02:57 |
| eleitl | most cypherpunks are useless | 02:58 |
| kanzure | elaborate | 02:58 |
| eleitl | but a few compensate for the rest of them | 02:58 |
| kanzure | there's something like 2000 subscribers? | 02:58 |
| eleitl | mostly feds, probably | 02:58 |
| eleitl | feds and fanboys | 02:58 |
| kanzure | he probably left identifying information in outgoing emails in 1995-1999 | 02:59 |
| kanzure | i think it's an interesting test of anonymization and pseudonymity | 03:00 |
| kanzure | if one of these damned cypherpunks can be defeated with simple phrase analysis and timing attacks, we're doomed. | 03:00 |
| fenn | meh just run it through google translate a couple times | 03:00 |
| eleitl | I doubt he was trying that hard | 03:00 |
| fenn | thesaurizer | 03:00 |
| eleitl | it's more about plausible deniability | 03:00 |
| kanzure | there are some annoying inconsistencies though. TOR. Tor.. | 03:01 |
| kanzure | "screaming hot" who the heck in japan says that. unlikely. | 03:01 |
| eleitl | oh, he said TOR and Tor? | 03:01 |
| kanzure | yeah | 03:01 |
| eleitl | this would lend credence to the team theory | 03:01 |
| kanzure | no | 03:01 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/bitcoin-satoshi/phrases.txt | 03:01 |
| eleitl | unless he would be fucking with it deliberatey | 03:01 |
| kanzure | i used to switch between american/british spellings of words but that was only because i was being careless | 03:02 |
| kanzure | not because i am a team | 03:02 |
| eleitl | which IRC channel was that? | 03:02 |
| kanzure | these were his bitcointalk.org posts | 03:02 |
| kanzure | and some emails and some comments in bitcoin-0.1.0.rar | 03:02 |
| eleitl | did you try to match him with the usual suspect list yet? | 03:03 |
| kanzure | i tried based on some googling restricted to cypherpunk/cryptology but the list didn't narrow down much | 03:03 |
| kanzure | i also have his activity on a mailing list called p2presearch which has a public list of subscribers. so he might be one of those other subscribers. | 03:04 |
| eleitl | was Wei Dai there? | 03:04 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/bitcoin-satoshi/p2p-research-members.txt | 03:04 |
| eleitl | I don't think he's Hal Finney | 03:04 |
| kanzure | p2presearch is not the sort of list to attract hal or wei | 03:05 |
| eleitl | no, it was largely waffle | 03:05 |
| kanzure | it's much more.. uh. i would call it low signal. | 03:05 |
| kanzure | i don't know if you remember but a few years ago on open manufacturing there was a troll named marc fawzi | 03:05 |
| kanzure | and i had to ban him | 03:05 |
| kanzure | well it turns out marc posted a lot to p2presearch | 03:05 |
| kanzure | and satoshi speaks favorably of marc's ideas | 03:05 |
| kanzure | but he might have just recently subscribed and read some of the emails too, so either way.. | 03:06 |
| eleitl | so many false alleys to chase down | 03:06 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/bitcoin-satoshi/email-p2presearch-2009-02-13-023120.txt | 03:07 |
| kanzure | well i think phrase analysis is the best bet | 03:07 |
| kanzure | given an archive of old 90s email including timestamps i think it would be possible to find some interesting suspects | 03:07 |
| kanzure | also with headers, that would be nice. | 03:07 |
| eleitl | but you can't prove anything, and that's how it is supposed to be | 03:08 |
| kanzure | you can't prove that i can't prove anything. | 03:08 |
| eleitl | nobody has been arrested based on a guess | 03:08 |
| eleitl | you might well know it's him, but unless he can show his wallet.dat you can't know it's him | 03:09 |
| kanzure | there might be other forms of evidence | 03:09 |
| kanzure | for instance, i might have the suspect's password | 03:09 |
| eleitl | forensic analysis of his hardware | 03:09 |
| eleitl | I doubt he's that sloppy | 03:10 |
| fenn | can you still be arrested for writing a computer program that generates numbers? | 03:10 |
| kanzure | (but i would only be able to confirm that if i have that possible suspect from the old 90s emails) | 03:10 |
| fenn | i mean what would the charges be | 03:11 |
| kanzure | why would you charge him with anything? bah. | 03:11 |
| fenn | because you're a vindictive asshole | 03:11 |
| eleitl | I've lost a bit of emails from the 1990s | 03:11 |
| eleitl | besides, these would be mixed with personal email, so I wouldn't be able to give them to you even if I would find them | 03:12 |
| kanzure | haha i wonder if it's jim choate. that would be hilarious. | 03:13 |
| kanzure | i was hoping it was anders so that i wouldn't have to be disappointed in him anymore. | 03:13 |
| eleitl | Choate doesn't have the skill or the language capability | 03:13 |
| kanzure | choate lives around here somewhere, i see him on the local mailing lists once in a while. it's cute. | 03:13 |
| eleitl | it's funny how you could implement AP today, with existing tools | 03:14 |
| -!- augur_ is now known as augur | 03:14 | |
| kanzure | AP? | 03:14 |
| eleitl | Assassination Politics | 03:14 |
| eleitl | but needs moar laundering | 03:14 |
| kanzure | also wtf why do you know jim choate. he's just a local loony sorta. | 03:15 |
| eleitl | Sorry, confused Choate with Bell. | 03:16 |
| eleitl | I know Choate via cpunks of 1990s. | 03:16 |
| kanzure | well you should at least search your archives for "fairly satisfactorily". that's the sort of string to stand out. | 03:16 |
| eleitl | in case I find these, I'll grep that | 03:16 |
| fenn | how did you generate this phrase list anyway? | 03:17 |
| kanzure | i was bored and i read everything satoshi wrote | 03:17 |
| kanzure | do not judge me :( | 03:17 |
| eleitl | since you already read anything Satoshi, any interesting ideas? | 03:18 |
| kanzure | i haven't read his paper. | 03:19 |
| kanzure | i figured a paper would be sufficiently butchered to not be recognizable. | 03:19 |
| kanzure | the surface area can be significantly reduced just by collecting a list of all subscribers to these mailing lists | 03:21 |
| kanzure | his use of irc is a little alarming, i admit, because it means either he has some background in botnets (or he sat around until he genuinely thought that irc was a good idea, which i think is unlikely). | 03:22 |
| fenn | there are "anonymous" web based irc proxies all over the place | 03:24 |
| kanzure | eleitl: could be you. | 03:25 |
| fenn | gentlemen, there's a currency killer in our midst | 03:26 |
| eleitl | actually, kanzure is satoshi | 03:26 |
| kanzure | i don't take privacy seriously enough for that to be true | 03:26 |
| kanzure | i am insufficiently paranoid | 03:26 |
| eleitl | ah, but that's what you want *us* to think | 03:27 |
| fenn | " I underestimated him. I didn't even consider the possibility that he would reveal his identity to me on purpose. He could be telling all his other suspects the same thing. In fact, it doesn't even have to be him. He could have sent a double instead." | 03:27 |
| kanzure | have you read gwern's phrase analysis fan work? | 03:28 |
| kanzure | http://www.gwern.net/Death%20Note%20Anonymity | 03:28 |
| eleitl | Keyser Söze <-- Satoshi | 03:28 |
| kanzure | also this one: | 03:29 |
| kanzure | http://www.gwern.net/Death%20Note%20script | 03:29 |
| eleitl | gwern seems to be intent to waste his time | 03:30 |
| kanzure | yeah none of those drugs seem to really help him stop doing that | 03:30 |
| kanzure | he spends all day in #lesswrong pasting large sections of text from blogs | 03:30 |
| kanzure | and then masturbating to ponies fucking each other or w/e | 03:31 |
| eleitl | he's on meds? what for? | 03:31 |
| kanzure | nah just random testing | 03:31 |
| fenn | random testing? | 03:32 |
| fenn | like quantified mind stuff? | 03:32 |
| kanzure | taking noots writing stuff down | 03:32 |
| kanzure | standard self-experimentation procedures | 03:32 |
| fenn | oh, you mean "poor experimental design" | 03:33 |
| kanzure | that too | 03:33 |
| eleitl | why doesn't he do something useful? | 03:33 |
| kanzure | one sec.. reviewing his answers. | 03:34 |
| kanzure | 14:06 <@gwern> kanzure: you start a lot of stuff but you do ever finish and use them? | 03:35 |
| kanzure | 14:06 < kanzure> gwern: yes. | 03:35 |
| kanzure | 14:07 < kanzure> gwern: stop projecting | 03:35 |
| kanzure | heh | 03:35 |
| kanzure | 14:08 <@gwern> kanzure: published doesn't mean applied or useful | 03:35 |
| kanzure | 14:09 < kanzure> gwern: i think you're talking out of your ass. would you like to help these projects? | 03:35 |
| eleitl | how old is he by now? Should be around 20, right? | 03:36 |
| kanzure | 14:14 <@gwern> kanzure: I also have zero hardware skills | 03:36 |
| kanzure | 14:16 <@gwern> kanzure: maybe, but my next target is getting a serial cable for my zeo working, so I have some basic eeg capability for meditation | 03:37 |
| kanzure | meditation :( | 03:37 |
| kanzure | 14:16 < kanzure> gwern: what is your goal with meditation? | 03:37 |
| kanzure | 14:17 <@gwern> kanzure: I'd like to correlate with sleep: there are widespread reports that meditation can reduce sleep needs. with a zeo eeg, I could hope to correlate any reduction with something more specific: total time spent in meditation? time in a specific band? etc | 03:37 |
| kanzure | 14:18 <@gwern> kanzure: a zeo eeg would also establish a higher quality null: if I saw no change in sleep, I could still say 'but on these objective metrics (time in gamma etc) I saw subtantial quality improvements in my meditation! so this is a real null and not me being crappy at meditation' | 03:37 |
| eleitl | what an awful waste of human life | 03:38 |
| kanzure | 14:19 < kanzure> "quality improvements in meditation"? | 03:38 |
| kanzure | 14:20 <@gwern> yes | 03:38 |
| kanzure | 14:20 < kanzure> i should stop asking actually. i'll either end up trying to convince you that you can get better gains by working on other technologies, or just annoyed about you. | 03:38 |
| kanzure | eleitl: agreed. | 03:38 |
| fenn | trading sleep time for meditation time doesn't seem like much of a gain | 03:38 |
| eleitl | sleep seems too basic to try to hack it out of your system without severe side effects | 03:39 |
| eleitl | e.g. I think my memory improvements are almost solely due to improved sleep | 03:39 |
| fenn | some people seem to get by fine on 4-5 hours of sleep.. it's a major handicap if you sleep 12 hours a day | 03:40 |
| fenn | trying to bridge that gap would (theoretically) make an overall 50% productivity boost, nothing to scoff at | 03:40 |
| eleitl | the assumption is that you can modify individual variations without side effects | 03:41 |
| eleitl | there seems to be little evidence that's possible | 03:41 |
| fenn | the more i read about biochemistry the more it seems that most life parameters are nearly completely arbitrary, but since they've remained beyond our control for so long we accept them as absolute | 03:42 |
| eleitl | sleep is very many layers removed from biochemistry | 03:42 |
| eleitl | diurnal cycles are with us for gigayears | 03:43 |
| fenn | eleitl: what's your opinion on "programmed aging" vs the sens style "accumulated damage" hypothesis? | 03:43 |
| eleitl | I'm agnostic. None of fixes will come in within the rest of my lifetime. | 03:43 |
| kanzure | eugen plans to die young at 84 | 03:44 |
| fenn | that's a baseless assertion, you can't predict the future | 03:44 |
| eleitl | I have no interest to debate you on that, fenn. | 03:44 |
| eleitl | you pays your money, and you takes you chances. | 03:44 |
| fenn | there's so much hype about antioxidants, but if the accumulated damage theory is incorrect there's no reason to spend money on them | 03:45 |
| kanzure | http://pub5.di.fm/di_vocaltrance_aac?type=.flv | 03:45 |
| fenn | whereas hormonal therapies barely get a passing mention even in publications like LEF magazine | 03:46 |
| eleitl | I'm taking a number of supplments, but I have no reason to assume they're going to make a difference | 03:46 |
| fenn | then why take them? i'm confused | 03:47 |
| eleitl | in the escape velocity difference | 03:47 |
| eleitl | there's value in a decade or more with good QoL | 03:47 |
| fenn | right | 03:47 |
| eleitl | but, I'm rather focusing in cryonics, and active shutdown | 03:47 |
| eleitl | there is still time for that, though not a lot of time | 03:48 |
| kanzure | speaking of not a lot of time, does hal have an eeg device? | 03:49 |
| eleitl | not sure | 03:51 |
| eleitl | I suspect he's using speech input at the moment | 03:51 |
| kanzure | his forum post claims he is using an eye tracking device | 03:52 |
| eleitl | oh, is it that bad already? | 03:52 |
| eleitl | that sucks | 03:52 |
| kanzure | can't produce sounds | 03:52 |
| kanzure | feeding tubes + breathing tubes | 03:52 |
| eleitl | fuckit | 03:52 |
| eleitl | poor bastard | 03:52 |
| kanzure | i sent him some eeg links with some reverse engineered protocol stuff | 03:52 |
| kanzure | he claims he wrote some arduino software to control his chair | 03:52 |
| kanzure | so maybe he will write some eeg things because eye tracking/dasher sucks | 03:53 |
| eleitl | he has hair, so he would have to shave | 03:53 |
| kanzure | actually no | 03:53 |
| fenn | for eye tracking a two-dimensional version of dasher could be useful | 03:53 |
| kanzure | emotiv epoc claims you do not need hair | 03:53 |
| kanzure | i've used emotiv epoc and i hate it but others claim it works | 03:54 |
| fenn | with active electrodes, dry contacts work fine | 03:54 |
| kanzure | https://github.com/kanzure/emokit | 03:54 |
| fenn | the problem is that EEG sucks | 03:54 |
| kanzure | sucks less than ALS | 03:54 |
| eleitl | it's a signal problem, you have to eliminate everything in between | 03:54 |
| eleitl | so shaving and wet electrodes would do better | 03:54 |
| eleitl | but, they suck as well | 03:54 |
| fenn | i'm not clear enough on what signals you have to work with to come up with any useful ideas | 03:55 |
| eleitl | ECoG would be the best, but no way to get that via elective surgery | 03:55 |
| kanzure | with emotiv epoc you need to do lots of training to get like 3 or 4 distinct signals | 03:55 |
| fenn | apparently hawking twitches his cheek muscle? why did that one survive? will hal have use of his eyes, or just a cheek muscle, or nothing, or something else? who knows | 03:55 |
| kanzure | and i could never do better than a ~2 second switching time | 03:55 |
| kanzure | iirc hawking lost his cheeks | 03:55 |
| fenn | so hawking is totally mute now? | 03:56 |
| eleitl | hal seems to have deteriorated quickly | 03:56 |
| eleitl | not sure how his prospects are | 03:56 |
| kanzure | i think hawking might also be doing eye contact | 03:56 |
| kanzure | eleitl: hal seems to think he has 10+ years | 03:56 |
| kanzure | https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=155054.0 | 03:57 |
| kanzure | "For those who don't know me, I'm Hal Finney. I got my start in crypto working on an early version of PGP, working closely with Phil Zimmermann. When Phil decided to start PGP Corporation, I was one of the first hires. I would work on PGP until my retirement. At the same time, I got involved with the Cypherpunks. I ran the first cryptographically based anonymous remailer, among other activities." | 03:57 |
| eleitl | I've read that one, yes. | 03:57 |
| kanzure | ah well there was another one on lesswrong, | 03:58 |
| kanzure | (2009) http://lesswrong.com/lw/1ab/dying_outside/ | 03:58 |
| fenn | choose life. choose being an open source programmer and pishing it all in a last ditch attempt to spawn a replacement for yourself | 03:58 |
| kanzure | "I hope to be able to read, browse the net, and even participate in conversations by email and messaging. Voice synthesizers allow local communications, and I am making use of a free service for ALS patients which will create a synthetic model of my own natural voice, for future use. I may even still be able to write code, and my dream is to contribute to open source software projects even from within an immobile body. That will be a life ... | 03:58 |
| kanzure | ... very much worth living" | 03:59 |
| eleitl | if all else fails, there's http://eleitl.imgur.com/all/ | 04:00 |
| kanzure | have you scanned your brain and encoded the data in cat photos? | 04:00 |
| eleitl | tested the ice bath yesterday, no leaks | 04:00 |
| kanzure | oh good they are not cat photos. | 04:00 |
| fenn | i have scanned cat photos and encoded the data in my brain, does that count? | 04:01 |
| kanzure | wrong way fenn | 04:01 |
| kanzure | recalibrate. | 04:01 |
| fenn | scanned cat brains and encoded the data in photos? | 04:01 |
| kanzure | i give up | 04:01 |
| eleitl | CAT scan has insufficient resolution | 04:02 |
| fenn | i'm pretty impressed by the CLARITY microscopy technique; with receptor-specific stains i think we have a decent chance to do high throughput synaptic junction reconstruction | 04:03 |
| fenn | there's only so many optical wavelengths though.. | 04:03 |
| kanzure | you can wash the stains/antibodies off | 04:03 |
| eleitl | BTC is on a sucker rally | 04:04 |
| eleitl | let's see how far up this one will go | 04:04 |
| fenn | the dead cat bounce | 04:04 |
| eleitl | I missed the window to buy at 60 EUR | 04:05 |
| eleitl | now, I will have to wait | 04:05 |
| fenn | i missed the window to buy at $0.0038.. | 04:05 |
| eleitl | tell me about it, I read Satoshi's original announcement | 04:06 |
| kanzure | in 2009 i was experiencing e-currency fatigue | 04:06 |
| kanzure | so i was really annoyed and didn't realize there was an implementation and not just a manifesto. | 04:06 |
| eleitl | moral: don't wait for debian packages, roll your own | 04:06 |
| eleitl | oh, I ran the first version, I was just snobbish to not have Windows 24/7 | 04:07 |
| kanzure | all those damn "peer-to-peer" "social currencies" | 04:07 |
| kanzure | fenn: did you read those gwern.net pages? | 04:09 |
| fenn | er.. i read the first part of the hollywood one and decided i didnt need to finish | 04:09 |
| eleitl | here's a great project: help people stop wasting time | 04:10 |
| eleitl | giant ROI | 04:10 |
| fenn | you dont need to do time analysis to determine that Kira is living in japan; all of the deaths were japanese criminals | 04:11 |
| kanzure | fenn: yeah, the basic idea is easy to understand. "use our brains to analyze things." | 04:11 |
| kanzure | i think it was unspoken that he also murdered others at some point | 04:12 |
| fenn | but Kira was already a social phenomenon before he got smart about it | 04:12 |
| eleitl | if you murder the right people, it's definitely going to help | 04:12 |
| eleitl | but you have to keep doing it, though | 04:12 |
| eleitl | sounds like a full-time job | 04:13 |
| fenn | i think it was after like the first 20 deaths people were txting madly Kira this Kira that, who will be next | 04:13 |
| kanzure | eleitl: death note is a story about a kid who finds a magic way to cheat and kill people from a distance. but there are various rules and he ends up being an idiot that gets caught because he doesn't know enough about anonymity. | 04:13 |
| fenn | anyway we already have "assassination politics" it's just that it's accomplished using military drones equipped with missiles | 04:16 |
| fenn | why the hell does a google search for "site:deviantart.com obama drone manhattan" bring up pictures of aaron swartz | 04:17 |
| superkuh | Google knows what your heart truly desires. | 04:17 |
| superkuh | Search queries are just suggestions. | 04:18 |
| kanzure | i wish google would take my queries seriously again. | 04:18 |
| eleitl | kanzure, I know what Death Note is. | 04:18 |
| eleitl | Just never had time to watch it. | 04:18 |
| kanzure | not sure if it's your type | 04:19 |
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| fenn | i tried to watch it but i wasn't intelligent enough to understand what was going on | 04:19 |
| * eleitl has been trying to watch Simoun lately | 04:20 | |
| kanzure | you might enjoy blame? | 04:20 |
| kanzure | oh wait i've seen simoun.. | 04:21 |
| kanzure | maybe once. | 04:21 |
| eleitl | my point precisely | 04:21 |
| eleitl | Blame! looks interesting | 04:21 |
| fenn | i'll second blame! | 04:22 |
| fenn | it doesn't really get going until chapter 7 | 04:22 |
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| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/blame.tar.gz | 04:23 |
| kanzure | have fun | 04:23 |
| eleitl | great, was scoring for amazon.com DVDs | 04:23 |
| kanzure | no animation version | 04:23 |
| fenn | actually chapter 8 is the best starting place | 04:24 |
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| kanzure | "Killy .. wanders a vast technological world known as "The City". He is searching for Net Terminal Genes, a (possibly) extinct genetic marker that allows humans to access the "Netsphere", a sort of computerized control network for The City. The City is an endless vertical space of artificially-constructed walls, stairways and caverns, separated into massive "floors" by nearly-impenetrable barriers known as "Megastructure". The City is ... | 04:25 |
| kanzure | ... inhabited by scattered human and transhuman tribes as well as hostile cyborgs known as Silicon Creatures. The Net Terminal Genes appear to be the key to halting the unhindered, chaotic expansion of the Megastructure, as well as a way of stopping the murderous horde known as the Safeguard from destroying all humanity." | 04:25 |
| kanzure | seems a good enough summary | 04:25 |
| fenn | it was weird to read Feersum Endjinn and see where nihei got various ideas | 04:25 |
| fenn | blame is about a million times more epic | 04:26 |
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| eleitl | http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0008FPIMW/ <-- ordered as well | 04:27 |
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| fenn | i wonder if we could manage to preserve iain banks' brain | 04:27 |
| kanzure | cancel it. the dvd is terrible. | 04:27 |
| eleitl | got that tarball kanzure, thanks. | 04:27 |
| kanzure | they spent all of their production budget on the credits. the rest is like 1 or 2 pictures with voiceover. | 04:28 |
| kanzure | and the voiceover isn't even meaningful. | 04:28 |
| eleitl | so there's no decent anime? | 04:28 |
| kanzure | there is no decent anime of blame | 04:28 |
| eleitl | just manga? | 04:28 |
| kanzure | just manga. | 04:28 |
| kanzure | i should have warned you sooner. i am sorry. | 04:28 |
| fenn | the dvd is just 5 minutes of confusing cut scenes and weird sound effects | 04:28 |
| kanzure | also it's on youtube anyway. | 04:30 |
| eleitl | ok, one-star review agrees. canceled. | 04:30 |
| kanzure | this guy made a way better attempt at a video of blame: | 04:30 |
| kanzure | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yl9GGiwtD98 | 04:30 |
| superkuh | What reader do you use, kanzure? | 04:32 |
| kanzure | i have been lucky enough to just use mangafox.com and other sites :( | 04:32 |
| kanzure | http://mangafox.me/manga/blame/v01/c007/1.html | 04:33 |
| kanzure | i do not recommend this | 04:34 |
| kanzure | yeah this is broken | 04:34 |
| eleitl | apparently, nexus 10 only sold ~650 k units | 04:40 |
| kanzure | i think it is better to say that they only made 650k units | 04:41 |
| kanzure | nobody was able to buy them | 04:41 |
| kanzure | they were perpetually out of stock | 04:41 |
| eleitl | if only there was a 3G version | 04:41 |
| kanzure | so.. eleitl is otaku. the plot thickens. | 04:46 |
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| @archels | eleitl: Have you ever considered using impedance spectroscopy as a means of determining the viability of tissue? | 04:50 |
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| eleitl | archels, no. | 04:51 |
| eleitl | Fahy uses Na/K ratio, which is quite easy | 04:51 |
| @archels | intracellularly? | 04:52 |
| eleitl | I'm interested in electric function, which will need multiple pickups anyway | 04:52 |
| eleitl | no, they assume if the ion pumps are down and tissue equilibrates it's down | 04:52 |
| eleitl | don't ask me how they validated that proxy | 04:52 |
| eleitl | brb, meeting | 04:55 |
| fenn | gwern assumes that killing criminals is the only goal, whereas it would seem light's law school background would lead him to believe that deterrence is a benefit of punishing criminals | 04:57 |
| eleitl | would work well in politics | 04:57 |
| fenn | if famous people you agreed with just died, and nobody noticed a pattern? | 04:58 |
| fenn | er, s/agreed/disagreed/ | 04:58 |
| fenn | it doesn't seem like politics to me | 04:59 |
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| kanzure | for the record i liked the anime. but i also like metalocalypse so take that as you might. | 05:02 |
| kanzure | fenn did you get a whiff of the google glass mirror api documentation? | 05:03 |
| fenn | meh | 05:03 |
| fenn | i saw that it was only open to developers and decided i didn't care | 05:04 |
| fenn | they'll fuck it all up anyway | 05:04 |
| kanzure | it's pretty limited. | 05:04 |
| kanzure | if you could possibly convince your langton lab homies to give you one then at least someone could start reverse engineering it and writing actually ok software | 05:05 |
| fenn | david left google to work on meteor | 05:06 |
| fenn | i know other people who work there but i doubt it would be any advantage | 05:07 |
| kanzure | oh that's the same david? | 05:07 |
| fenn | yep | 05:07 |
| kanzure | meteor raised quite a large sum of venture funding.. | 05:07 |
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| fenn | jeez.. gwern's article about "how terrorism doesn't work" has a connotation that one could make huge stock market gains by assassinating a CEO to influence the company's share price | 05:20 |
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| @archels | paperbot: Ectopic eyes outside the head in Xenopus tadpoles provide sensory data for light-mediated learning | 06:19 |
| @archels | shit | 06:19 |
| @archels | paperbot: http://jeb.biologists.org/content/216/6/1031.full.pdf+html | 06:20 |
| paperbot | no translator available, raw dump: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/Ectopic%20eyes%20outside%20the%20head%20in%20Xenopus%20tadpoles%20provide%20sensory%20data%20for%20light-mediated%20learning.pdf | 06:20 |
| @archels | yep, figured it was being misrepresented on popular science sites | 06:29 |
| @archels | of the tadpoles with ectopic eyes, only those that showed innervation of the spine/gut allowed the tadpole to learn shock avoidance based on a light cue | 06:29 |
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| eleitl | what is a good RSS reader for Android? | 06:40 |
| eleitl | gReader Pro? | 06:42 |
| eleitl | second question, does OwnCloud do full text PDF search? | 06:43 |
| eleitl | everybody seems to be using Evernote | 06:43 |
| eleitl | http://forum.owncloud.org/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=10464 looks recent, not working yet | 06:44 |
| eleitl | http://techcrunch.com/2013/02/24/meet-owncloud-5-the-open-source-dropbox/ | 06:45 |
| eleitl | Another big new addition is a full-text search mechanism, powered by Lucene. This is something that ownCloud offers that the proprietary solutions don’t. The full-text search will work in the mobile clients, as well as the web interface, allowing you to find files based on their contents, not just their file names. | 06:45 |
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| eudoxia | i think satoshi is just one guy | 08:56 |
| eudoxia | mixing TOR and Tor and tor are probably the first things i would think of to obscure my text | 08:56 |
| eudoxia | there's also http://www.yodaspeak.co.uk/ | 08:58 |
| eudoxia | 'Think of to obscure my text I mixing tor and tor and tor are probably the first things would.' oh what a failure | 08:58 |
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| chris_99 | maybe he ran his text through some kind of randomisation algorithm to stop people attempting to identify him ;) | 09:07 |
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| kanzure | chris_99: there's no randomization algorithm that produces writing that strong. | 09:39 |
| chris_99 | just give it a very low probability of flipping words for alternatives | 09:41 |
| chris_99 | hmm bitcoin seems to be slowly creeping back up too | 09:44 |
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| chris_99 | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5I9OwaLRv8 | 11:43 |
| chris_99 | .title | 11:43 |
| yoleaux | Science research shows how bees are attracted to flowers - YouTube | 11:43 |
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| ParahSailin | http://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/?p=3040 | 12:52 |
| kanzure | .title | 12:53 |
| yoleaux | The $12 Gongkai Phone « bunnie's blog | 12:53 |
| chris_99 | impressive | 12:55 |
| ParahSailin | http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/open-tech-forever-r-d-factory-for-open-source-industrial-hardware | 13:08 |
| ParahSailin | how do i get into the "sponging off of donations for open source projects" class | 13:08 |
| kanzure | .title | 13:09 |
| yoleaux | Open Tech Forever - R&D Factory for Open Source Industrial Hardware | Indiegogo | 13:09 |
| kanzure | oops my bad | 13:09 |
| kanzure | that should have been obvious | 13:09 |
| kanzure | i got spam from them earlier today. i deeted it. | 13:09 |
| kanzure | *deleted | 13:10 |
| ParahSailin | kanzure: have you pulled off an indiegogo money collection? | 13:11 |
| kanzure | nope, don't want to either. | 13:11 |
| ParahSailin | too proud to collect money from suckers? | 13:12 |
| ParahSailin | er, scrupulous is probably the better word | 13:13 |
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| kanzure | this guy is a spammer and i hate him: Yoonseo Kang <ykang404@gmail.com> | 13:38 |
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| ParahSailin | lol | 13:48 |
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| kanzure | openworm wiki is migrating to https://github.com/openworm/OpenWorm/wiki | 16:37 |
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| kanzure | god damn it | 17:34 |
| kanzure | http://www.museion.ku.dk/biohack-lab/ | 17:34 |
| kanzure | fuck these fuckers and their forced oaths | 17:34 |
| kanzure | can't they at least say "we also realize that we don't represent everyone in the community" if they are so self-proclaimedly focused on being "ethical". | 17:35 |
| kanzure | i like how their ethics isn't about actually being independent. | 17:37 |
| clock | " and will apply it for the benefit of humankind" | 17:46 |
| clock | means he has to do at least one thing for the benefit of humankind? or all the things he does have to be for the benefit of humankind? | 17:46 |
| clock | I also think the term "benefit of humankind" is too vague term to be used in such a context | 17:47 |
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| kanzure | clock: i don't think people are thinking carefully about these things. | 17:49 |
| clock | kajetan, so do I understand right, u dont like the oath? | 17:50 |
| kanzure | do you mean to ask me? | 17:51 |
| kanzure | anyway, yes, i am strongly opposed to top-down mandates in this community | 17:51 |
| clock | kanzure, yes you kanzure sorry | 17:51 |
| kanzure | i am also opposed to the "self-imposed moratorium" that was floated around a while ago | 17:51 |
| clock | I dislike it when I read it too | 17:52 |
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| clock | These make impression on me they are irrelevant anywaya | 17:52 |
| kanzure | i also think it is strongly misleading to write an oath because you are misleading others to think that all non-institutional members are following the same oauth, which isn't true. | 17:52 |
| clock | what are they going to achieve in DIY biology or whatever by making museums of dried mummies or whatever is on the pages? | 17:52 |
| kanzure | better than wet mummies, i imagine? | 17:53 |
| clock | kanzure, a guz who takes strawberries and blender is in my opinion much more relevant for this kind of science | 17:53 |
| kanzure | i have never been mummified before i dunno | 17:53 |
| clock | this web makes impression on me that #1 goal is impressive graphics | 17:53 |
| kanzure | i think i prefer meredith's biopunk manifesto if anything.. | 17:54 |
| kanzure | why is hackteria and biologigaragen agreeing to this. i would expect better of them. | 17:54 |
| kanzure | openbioprojects.net is just trojak, so he can agree to whatever he wants. | 17:54 |
| clock | anyone needs any kind of DIY ddevices tools for biopunk? | 17:55 |
| clock | I want to do living by open source hardware development | 17:55 |
| clock | I need some useful simple projects to develop | 17:56 |
| clock | I have Twibright Labs | 17:56 |
| kanzure | what do you mean you "have twibright" | 17:56 |
| kanzure | what does "do living" mean | 17:57 |
| clock | like at the moment I am working on the technology for cutting arbitratry shapes (also complicated inner holes) into up to 2mm steel plates at home | 17:57 |
| clock | without any noise, effort or dangerous chemicals | 17:57 |
| clock | kanzure, I am kinda founder of Twibright Labs | 17:57 |
| clock | kanzure, do for living | 17:57 |
| clock | and I needed a device for separation by sedimentation | 17:57 |
| clock | I made a nice one from PET bottles | 17:57 |
| clock | it even has screw-based stopcock which can be adjusted! I am amazed what can be done from trash when the need is here | 17:58 |
| kanzure | are you kkulhavy | 17:58 |
| clock | yes | 17:58 |
| kanzure | here is a list of things that would be helpful to work on: | 17:59 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/diytranshuman_projects.v4.html | 17:59 |
| kanzure | other relevant equipment: | 18:00 |
| kanzure | http://gnusha.org/skdb/BOMs/diybio-equipment.yaml | 18:00 |
| clock | I used BRL-CAD extensively | 18:00 |
| clock | BRL-CAD actually even used some of my project screenshots on their conference presentations | 18:01 |
| kanzure | brlcad has recently implemented partial nurbs surface-surface intersection: | 18:01 |
| kanzure | http://brlcad.org/wiki/User:Phoenix/GSoc2012/Reports | 18:01 |
| clock | "For this reason, job candidates must already have a machine shop and lab to work in" - DIY bio only for machine shop and lab owners? | 18:02 |
| kanzure | that idea was for funding a specific open source hardware developer to work through the backlog of needed equipment | 18:02 |
| kanzure | at the time, i wasn't able to fund a full hackerspace on my own (at least, not to the level i wanted) | 18:03 |
| clock | I like to work in a different way | 18:03 |
| kanzure | so it was more efficient to find someone who already had the desire and capability but perhaps not the income | 18:03 |
| clock | I do free physical products for manufacture by the consumer | 18:03 |
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| clock | If you buy a Ferrari, you don't need to own a car workshop | 18:03 |
| clock | If you buy a bread, you don't need a bakery | 18:03 |
| kanzure | i will build a car workshop if i want to, screw you | 18:04 |
| clock | If you buy a TV, you don't need to have an oscilloscope, a multimeter and a soldering iron to be able to bring it to turning on | 18:04 |
| clock | Similarly, I think requirements of labs workshops etc. are restrictive and undermine the idea | 18:04 |
| kanzure | i think having an oscilloscope, multimeter, voltmeter, soldering iron, smt pick-and-placer are all very useful | 18:04 |
| clock | kanzure, I feel insulted and discrespected when you say screw you | 18:05 |
| kanzure | you are trying to tell me that i can't have lab equipment :( | 18:05 |
| kanzure | or that i shouldn't need it | 18:05 |
| kanzure | that's totally false and i know you're lying | 18:05 |
| kanzure | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M30-oInTKs4 | 18:05 |
| kanzure | .title | 18:05 |
| yoleaux | Chicken embryo heart cells beating in culture - YouTube | 18:05 |
| kanzure | clock: perhaps this will help put things in perspective, having the ability to build tools is not a bad thing. in fact, it can be considered critical. http://diyhpl.us/wiki/declaration | 18:06 |
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| superkuh | http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=8CRdRc8CcGY#t=594s - galvanic vestibular stimulation mentioned at the Oculus VR session at the game developer conference. | 22:07 |
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| -!- Topic for ##hplusroadmap: biohacking, nootropics, transhumanism, open hardware | sponsored by george church and the NRA | http://gnusha.org/logs http://diyhpl.us/wiki http://groups.google.com/group/diybio | banned by the Federal Death Administration | official paperbot fan club | 22:20 | |
| -!- Topic set by kanzure [~kanzure@131.252.130.248] [Sat Mar 23 20:40:45 2013] | 22:20 | |
| [Users ##hplusroadmap] | 22:20 | |
| [@archels ] [ chido ] [ gnusha_ ] [ lupfantomo ] [ ParahSailin ] [ strangewarp] | 22:20 | |
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| [ AdrienG ] [ devrandom ] [ HEx1 ] [ nmz787 ] [ processing ] [ Suwap ] | 22:20 | |
| [ AlonzoTG ] [ DMXRoid ] [ ivan` ] [ nmz787_ ] [ randalla1ordon] [ Thomas42 ] | 22:20 | |
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| -!- Irssi: ##hplusroadmap: Total of 72 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 71 normal] | 22:20 | |
| -!- Channel ##hplusroadmap created Thu Feb 25 23:40:30 2010 | 22:20 | |
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| fenn | i liked his comment at the end about using eye tracking to dynamically adjust the display's focus | 23:08 |
| fenn | oh he left | 23:10 |
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| kanzure | fenn: pm. | 23:15 |
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| --- Log closed Sat Apr 20 00:00:03 2013 | ||
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