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| kanzure | "60 percent less eczema" does that mean less cases of eczema or less eczema? | 09:02 |
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| kanzure | those diybio emails about the job market are really pathetic.. | 09:17 |
| kanzure | "there's a glut of biology majors, therefore we're screwed" | 09:17 |
| kanzure | but uh.. no, that means you can hire a lot of science labor for really really cheap. | 09:18 |
| kanzure | someone's response was "That's not a good thing for you when you're the cheap labour." | 09:18 |
| kanzure | but that's not even true. of course it's a good thing if you're the cheap labor. | 09:18 |
| kanzure | that means it's cheap for you to hire others to do work | 09:20 |
| Burninate | Excess labor is not a good thing for employees, only for employers with the means to run a business | 09:51 |
| Burninate | Capital, industry experience, connections, good domain ideas, and managerial acumen might make it a good thing, but for the many people who don't have most of those things... | 09:53 |
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| kanzure | Burninate: "the means".. bootstrapping, yo. | 10:18 |
| kanzure | most of these biologists do have "experience", so you can strike that one off the list. tremendous amounts of experience. | 10:19 |
| kanzure | but very little confidence | 10:19 |
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| superkuh | It is easy to be confident when you have capital. | 10:38 |
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| kanzure | superkuh: their main capital resource is their time | 11:01 |
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| kanzure | http://johncarlosbaez.wordpress.com/2013/06/14/the-selected-papers-network-part-2/ | 11:23 |
| kanzure | https://github.com/cjlee112/spnet https://github.com/cjlee112/spnet/issues | 11:24 |
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| kanzure | grandma is asking me for stock picking advice.. "I thought if I put the name in the subj line, you might well answer. Any thoughts on buying 3-D printing stock? There is also 3D Systems which sells for less. What do you think the future holds for 3-D printing, both individually and on a large scale basis??? Perhaps I should have bought in early, but I didn't, alas." | 13:27 |
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| kanzure | i think it's sort of late to cash in on the makerbot acquisition :P | 13:27 |
| fenn | are there any companies doing DLP based stereolithography? | 13:28 |
| fenn | that's the new hotness | 13:29 |
| kanzure | bleh why is that new only now? | 13:30 |
| kanzure | why couldn't it have been new when it came out decades ago? | 13:30 |
| fenn | oh i guess zcorp did, and they're now part of 3d systems | 13:31 |
| fenn | zbuilder ultra | 13:31 |
| klafka | fenn: is that the stuff that the kickstarter was for | 13:31 |
| kanzure | there are many kickstarter.com projects | 13:32 |
| fenn | i dunno, there have been various people doing it from scratch | 13:32 |
| kanzure | i dunno if lemoncurry was on kickstarter but maybe you are thinking of lemoncurry | 13:32 |
| fenn | there was a brazilian (?) guy who was trying to be all secretive and proprietary | 13:32 |
| klafka | yeah | 13:35 |
| fenn | zbuilder only came out in 2010 | 13:35 |
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| fenn | where the hell did 3d systems get so much cash to buy out every company on the planet | 13:35 |
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| jrayhawk | kanzure: you'll have to give her some futurist technology to invest in, otherwise she might wind up putting her money into d-wave :( | 13:38 |
| kanzure | that's what my dad did >:( | 13:38 |
| kanzure | (he put money into d-wave) | 13:38 |
| kanzure | (no idea where that money went. i can't find the firm that handled that investment. wtf.) | 13:39 |
| delinquentme | who dis | 13:39 |
| fenn | how come they (d-wave) still don't have anything useful | 13:39 |
| delinquentme | who dis investmont | 13:39 |
| delinquentme | fenn, I think they do? | 13:39 |
| jrayhawk | because quantum computing is not very useful altogether | 13:39 |
| delinquentme | pepers published on comparison processing for combinatorics problems | 13:40 |
| delinquentme | that I dont think is true :D | 13:40 |
| fenn | the largest potential application i see is solving protein structure from sequence | 13:41 |
| kanzure | i don't see how that requires quantum computing | 13:42 |
| kanzure | there are a number of protein folding motifs that we already have heuristics for | 13:42 |
| fenn | it doesn't require it, it's just a good match | 13:42 |
| delinquentme | fenn, esplain | 13:43 |
| delinquentme | prez. | 13:43 |
| ParahSailin | lol 3d printing stocks | 13:43 |
| ParahSailin | just tell her novo nordisk does 3d printing | 13:44 |
| fenn | delinquentme: the different possible rotations and bond energies in a folded protein segment can be analyzed in one go with enough qubits, otherwise you'll have to divide and conquer with exponentially increasing compute time | 13:44 |
| kanzure | i told her to put her money in google or tesla *shrug* | 13:44 |
| kanzure | if she is going to actually ask me then i guess i should give her something relatively safe | 13:45 |
| ParahSailin | 3d printing is toys | 13:45 |
| fenn | ParahSailin: diabetes care? | 13:46 |
| ParahSailin | i wouldnt tell her tesla, hype bubbles can pop pretty fast | 13:46 |
| delinquentme | fenn, research papers? | 13:46 |
| delinquentme | illermernerti | 13:46 |
| ParahSailin | diabetes drugs are always gonna be good money | 13:46 |
| fenn | delinquentme: sorry i dont have any links for you | 13:46 |
| delinquentme | =[. | 13:47 |
| delinquentme | i bug you later then | 13:47 |
| delinquentme | yuno drink in sf fenn ? | 13:47 |
| delinquentme | YUNO? | 13:47 |
| ParahSailin | that market is only gonna grow | 13:47 |
| ParahSailin | sure it's a "sin stock | 13:47 |
| delinquentme | till cured ! | 13:48 |
| ParahSailin | pretty sure it is cured, but theres more money in treatment | 13:48 |
| jrayhawk | 'cure' is ambiguous here; we can cure the underlying condition pretty easily, but the damage done is sometimes permanent. | 13:49 |
| fenn | http://blogs.nature.com/news/2012/08/d-wave-quantum-computer-solves-protein-folding-problem.html seems to indicate that the problems with noise have been limiting quantum computing's usefulness so far | 13:50 |
| jrayhawk | Beta cells function is permanently (at least until we work out stem cell therapies) destroyed by T1D in the overwhelming majority of cases and by T2D in a small minority of cases. | 13:51 |
| jrayhawk | Same thing with the brain in T3D | 13:51 |
| ParahSailin | thats skinny diabetes | 13:52 |
| ParahSailin | novo nordisk sells drugs for fat diabetes | 13:53 |
| fenn | "type 3 diabetes" eh? | 13:53 |
| ParahSailin | yeah i think thats one alz theory | 13:54 |
| jrayhawk | http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=type+3+diabetes | 13:54 |
| gradstudentbot | Someone's sitting at my bench space. | 13:54 |
| fenn | btw anyone interested in quantum computing, this is an interesting spin on it http://www.frc.ri.cmu.edu/~hpm/project.archive/general.articles/1991/TempComp.html | 14:05 |
| jrayhawk | fenn: I'm sorta shaky on the theory, but from what I've gathered from academics, quantum computing has advantages in P-scaling that are absolutely dwarfed by the head start classical computing has on it. If we project exponential advancement for both technologies, QC still not be faster within our lifetime for any NP problem without a miracle. | 14:05 |
| fenn | "It may well be that time travel is as common as dirt, and shapes our physical laws, but conspires, by wave function interference, to prevent any operations that would result in logically inconsistent situations," | 14:06 |
| jrayhawk | and, of course, d-wave can be emulated on practically any PC faster than it operates in real time. | 14:06 |
| jrayhawk | at least, for NP problems | 14:07 |
| fenn | i expect something similar to SIMD coprocessors | 14:07 |
| jrayhawk | BQP-specific problems I don't really understand at all | 14:07 |
| fenn | you wouldn't run an IRC client on a quantum computer, but maybe certain specific problems in cryptography or graphics | 14:07 |
| fenn | i dont know what BQP is | 14:08 |
| fenn | classical computing progress is driven by reduced feature size from improved lithographic processes; QC manufacturers also have access to those processes | 14:10 |
| fenn | have you looked at a d-wave chip layout? they are wasting most of the chip | 14:10 |
| fenn | oops i was wrong, d-wave uses most of the chip surface, nevermind | 14:12 |
| jrayhawk | we also have improved branching, pipelining, compilation, etc. | 14:13 |
| jrayhawk | and the next 30 years of progress are going to be a lot more about math and less about physics | 14:14 |
| fenn | what makes you say that? | 14:14 |
| jrayhawk | our primary limitation at this point is the clock | 14:15 |
| fenn | clock is limited by RC constant due to metallic wires | 14:15 |
| fenn | optical interconnects can enable another order of magnitude or two | 14:16 |
| fenn | then there's 3d circuitry which further reduces wire length | 14:16 |
| jrayhawk | http://arc.cecs.pdx.edu/publications | 14:17 |
| kanzure | what is cryptoloop? | 14:17 |
| fenn | i do agree that the turing machine paradigm has to be overcome to really take advantage of distributed processing | 14:17 |
| fenn | (i guess that's math) | 14:17 |
| jrayhawk | an ancient and lousy block device encryption scheme | 14:17 |
| kanzure | oh grand | 14:18 |
| * kanzure pokes /dev/loop0 | 14:18 | |
| jrayhawk | yes, the quality of our compilers determines how small our clock domains can go while still doing useful computation | 14:18 |
| fenn | just making sure we're on the same page, you're talking about things like RALA asynchronous logic? | 14:20 |
| jrayhawk | I think Ivan has an arbitrarily scalable pipeline running at 5GHz, now, provided you use the bespoke functional language | 14:20 |
| jrayhawk | And yeah, something like that. | 14:22 |
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| klafka | fenn: sort of confused do you mean von neumann? | 14:36 |
| klafka | we don't use turing machines we just use things equivalent to turing machines | 14:37 |
| jrayhawk | what exactly does the word "paradigm" mean to you | 14:39 |
| klafka | uggh i find paradigm to be defining characteristics of a particular set | 14:40 |
| jrayhawk | okay, and how is von neumann not a subset of a turing machine | 14:41 |
| fenn | von neumann architecture is an implementation of a finite universal turing machine | 14:42 |
| klafka | i see | 14:42 |
| klafka | so what would non-turing machine computation be? | 14:42 |
| fenn | anyway, you're right that the thing i'm trying to do away with is the separation of memory and logic | 14:43 |
| eudoxia | klafka: the C preprocessor probably | 14:43 |
| ParahSailin | like what the loper-os guy talks about? | 14:43 |
| fenn | any subset of turing complete languages | 14:43 |
| fenn | when engineers design, say, a JPEG decoder block on a camera ASIC, they don't make a CPU and then program it with software, because it's too slow | 14:45 |
| fenn | they make logic that implements the algorithm directly | 14:45 |
| klafka | so you want to actually decrease abstraction? | 14:45 |
| fenn | it can only do that algorithm, and not any other computations | 14:45 |
| fenn | yes | 14:45 |
| fenn | abstraction is important in interfaces for modularity, but it hugely increases the cost of computation | 14:46 |
| eudoxia | PawrahSailin: i have only skimmed the site but is he some kind of paranoid schizophrenic lisp coder kind of like of the losethos guy? | 14:46 |
| klafka | btw i saw you guys were talking about d-wave did you see the scott aaronson blog post ? | 14:46 |
| klafka | fenn: i see i see | 14:46 |
| jrayhawk | i saw that he acknowledged that it was, at the very least, not a complete fraud | 14:47 |
| fenn | klafka: did you mean http://www.scottaaronson.com/blog/?p=954 ? | 14:47 |
| ParahSailin | eudoxia: nah hes not insane like that losethos guy | 14:48 |
| ParahSailin | his articles on buttcoin are interesting | 14:48 |
| klafka | no http://www.scottaaronson.com/blog/?p=1400 | 14:48 |
| klafka | It appears that, while the D-Wave machine does outperform certain off-the-shelf solvers, simulated annealing codes have been written that outperform the D-Wave machine on its own native problem when run on a standard laptop. | 14:49 |
| ParahSailin | http://www.loper-os.org/?p=846 | 14:50 |
| eudoxia | >Loper has no “cores”, no instruction set (in the usual sense,) no interrupts or DMA. These concepts are, for the most part, artifacts of the Von Neumann paradigm. | 14:52 |
| eudoxia | the operating system is so Lisp, it doesn't exist | 14:52 |
| eudoxia | zen, brah | 14:52 |
| klafka | hahah | 14:52 |
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| fenn | loper seems more similar to the forth software and chips from green array than anything else | 14:54 |
| fenn | maybe the symbolics machines | 14:55 |
| fenn | oh he even mentions greenarray in the comments | 14:55 |
| eudoxia | http://www.loper-os.org/?p=849 | 14:56 |
| eudoxia | muh conspiracy | 14:56 |
| jrayhawk | hah, aaronson links to this: http://arxiv.org/abs/1305.4904 | 14:57 |
| eudoxia | http://www.loper-os.org/?p=498 | 14:59 |
| eudoxia | >The universe keeps its most beautiful jewels in a safe that most of us cannot crack or even see. But JMC could. And did. | 14:59 |
| eudoxia | ;_;7 | 14:59 |
| strangewarp | :|a | 15:03 |
| eudoxia | strangewarp: is that your first under your chin as in thinking | 15:05 |
| fenn | "Solution: Give all developers a 200Mhz Pentium I computer with 64MB of ram to program on. Their code won’t be bloated and will run mega-fast on current-day hardware." | 15:08 |
| kanzure | they will just ssh into "the cloud" to get around those restrictions | 15:09 |
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| klafka | it's true | 15:38 |
| klafka | i have a fancy computer and i do all my programming on the cloud | 15:38 |
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| kanzure | weles: hi | 16:43 |
| kanzure | Juul: sup | 16:43 |
| Juul | kanzure, 'lo | 16:45 |
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| kanzure | "Since then I've been accruing a lot of synthetic biology experience (I'm currently probably the most experienced person in the world at a new technique called "gibson assembly" - I've done upwards of 100 successful gibson assemblies on a wide range of molecular biology targets), which should help the process go even more smoothly." | 17:10 |
| kanzure | this world blows chunks | 17:10 |
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| kanzure | the "most experienced person" at gibson assembly has only done it 100 times? fuck everything. | 17:10 |
| kanzure | " the developers of Gibthon (FOSS gibson assembly design software; http://gibthon.org/)" | 17:10 |
| kanzure | stalk: https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=dnautics isaac@indysci.org | 17:11 |
| kanzure | ugh he uses reddit and respects omri | 17:11 |
| kanzure | fuck | 17:11 |
| kanzure | "isaac yonemoto" | 17:12 |
| kanzure | oh it looks like i am wrong and he hates omri too, http://www.indysci.org/mission/oncrowdfunding.html | 17:12 |
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| kanzure | prince of persia c64 development stuff http://popc64.blogspot.com/ | 17:15 |
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| fenn | why are you interested in porting from one old platform to another? | 17:19 |
| kanzure | i have this slight hope that people have better ideas than me once in a while | 17:19 |
| kanzure | this paid off in the case of static recompilation, like http://andrewkelley.me/post/jamulator.html | 17:20 |
| kanzure | .title | 17:20 |
| yoleaux | Statically Recompiling NES Games into Native Executables with LLVM and Go - Andrew Kelley | 17:20 |
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| fenn | uh, is this not just disassembly and compilation? | 17:26 |
| kanzure | it is simultaneously both | 17:28 |
| fenn | but there's an intermediate step that looks a lot like assembly | 17:29 |
| fenn | We just turned a binary machine code program into human-readable assembly. | 17:30 |
| fenn | Now that we can figure out the assembly source code from 6502 machine code, we can start the fun part - converting the assembly program into native machine code. | 17:30 |
| fenn | i mean it's educational, if you want to know how a disassembler works | 17:31 |
| kanzure | i wrote a disassembler, but i did it very poorly | 17:36 |
| kanzure | i think llvm makes more sense for that task | 17:36 |
| eudoxia | llvm is the best thing ever | 17:37 |
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| fenn | you can't make this stuff up http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smiley#Licensing_and_legal_issues | 18:20 |
| delinquentme | fenn r/nottheonion | 18:20 |
| kanzure | don't make fenn visit reddit he will never fucking return | 18:20 |
| kanzure | screw you | 18:20 |
| kanzure | fenn has a single track attention span and you have just destroyed him for months i think | 18:21 |
| strangewarp | but le reddit big social media website with democratic voting system super epic!!!aaaaaaaa | 18:21 |
| fenn | reddit doesn't do it for me, for whatever reason | 18:22 |
| kanzure | probably because of the overwhelming disappointment | 18:22 |
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| fenn | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Emerging_technologies | 21:33 |
| kanzure | it lists EEG -_- | 21:38 |
| kanzure | and "ethics of ai".. how is that a technology. | 21:38 |
| kanzure | "whole genome sequencing".. this is the lamest list ever. | 21:38 |
| * brownies pokes gradstudentbot | 21:39 | |
| gradstudentbot | The grant got rejected. | 21:39 |
| fenn | i dont know why ethics is on there, but overall the list is pretty interesting stuff IMHO | 21:40 |
| kanzure | it seems very typical | 21:42 |
| kanzure | also this sounds interesting in theory, but it just links to something with some crap about 3d printing on the moon http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Hieroglyph | 21:42 |
| kanzure | "oh my god we can take things that work on earth and do it elsewhere???" | 21:42 |
| fenn | i think you missed the point of that one | 21:43 |
| fenn | the idea is "we can do this cool stuff, so why aren't we doing it" | 21:43 |
| kanzure | "Stephenson says that "a good SF universe has a coherence and internal logic that makes sense to scientists and engineers. Examples include Isaac Asimov" | 21:43 |
| fenn | apparently the answer is "powerpoint" | 21:46 |
| kanzure | huh? | 21:46 |
| fenn | PowerPoint exerts a significant and probably measurable drag on economic productivity. How many hours are spent each year by highly educated people creating PowerPoint slides? ... It might be going too far to suggest that this fully explains modern society’s inability to Get Big Stuff Done, but my gut tells me that it’s a major contributing factor. Meetings and groups might be an excellent | 21:48 |
| fenn | way to establish dominance hierarchies among primates, but they are not the way to cultivate and develop extraordinary ideas. | 21:48 |
| fenn | Actually making things come to pass. Isn’t that what Hieroglyph is all about? | 21:52 |
| fenn | So, let’s stop prevaricating around the bush, and start laying out actual roadmaps to the futures we’re talking about. | 21:52 |
| fenn | i dare say that sounds familiar | 21:52 |
| kanzure | yeah but check his site, it's like one article about 3d printing or something | 21:53 |
| fenn | i dont see where you're getting that | 21:53 |
| kanzure | hover over 'projects' | 21:53 |
| kanzure | http://hieroglyph.asu.edu/project/stereolunagraphy/ | 21:53 |
| kanzure | http://hieroglyph.asu.edu/project/the-tall-tower/ | 21:54 |
| fenn | NIH announced at the end of April that they’ll be distancing themselves from the DSM after the 5th edition is released. The primary reason given is that existing mental health pathologies are too qualitative and don’t sync up with emerging neurobiological explanations for cognitive/mood disorders. | 22:01 |
| fenn | go NIH! woo | 22:01 |
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| --- Log closed Sat Jun 22 00:00:04 2013 | ||
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