| --- Log opened Mon Jun 24 00:00:05 2013 | ||
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| nmz787_ | paperbot: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1038/npg.els.0001315/pdf | 00:47 |
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| paperbot | no translator available, raw dump: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/a375dff30f61d2121895cc04e927557a.txt | 00:47 |
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| brownies | .meow | 06:29 |
| yoleaux | http://moar.edgecats.net/cats/tumblr_m7826eejVA1rqz8qx.gif | 06:29 |
| ThomasEgi | http://volldost.soup.io/post/320774644/yungsang | 06:39 |
| -!- abumirqaan is now known as upgrayeddd | 06:59 | |
| jonathan___ | http://aptamerbase.semanticscience.org/ | 07:05 |
| jonathan___ | What is the Aptamer Base? | 07:05 |
| jonathan___ | The Aptamer Base is a collaboratively created knowledge base about aptamers. Aptamers are short sinlge stranded nucleic acids or amino acid polymers that recognize and bind to targets with high affinity and selectivity. Nucleic acid aptamers are tipically isolated from large combinatorial libraries through the application of SELEX. The Aptamer Base has been built on Freebase (a free openly licensed community built resource for | 07:05 |
| jonathan___ | structured data). Freebase organizes over 360 million facts into bases, collections of thematically related topics. The Aptamer Base is one such collection which contains expert curated descriptions of in vitro created sequences and related experiments. | 07:05 |
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| kanzure | bosslab bioreactor https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-ODEMXOP1Nl8/UchRK2BkZ5I/AAAAAAAAAIc/q5dQLHI8hOc/s1600/20130623_162903.jpg | 07:49 |
| kanzure | haha freebase. they were acquired by google a while back. | 07:49 |
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| jonathan___ | geez the market is such a pain in my bernanke | 08:02 |
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| heath | .title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmTNtSs1UQY | 13:33 |
| yoleaux | Joseph Jackson (wtf) - YouTube | 13:33 |
| heath | never gets old | 13:33 |
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| ParahSai1in | paperbot: http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0042543 | 14:01 |
| paperbot | error: HTTP 500 http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/Not%20All%20Sequence%20Tags%20Are%20Created%20Equal%3A%20Designing%20and%20Validating%20Sequence%20Identification%20Tags%20Robust%20to%20Indels.pdf | 14:01 |
| ParahSai1in | ^ we independently did the exact same thing | 14:01 |
| ParahSai1in | pretty sure you can't fit 8000 3-distance sequences in 10mer space though | 14:04 |
| ParahSai1in | er nevermind, it was 4 distance that wouldn't fit that much-- at 4 edits you can only fit about 4k in there | 14:09 |
| kanzure | ParahSai1in: having fun repeating work? | 14:34 |
| ParahSai1in | nah, i did that a couple months before that was published | 15:03 |
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| kanzure | yashgaroth: hi | 18:23 |
| yashgaroth | sup | 18:24 |
| kanzure | pondering how to reframe the "whistleblower vs spy" question for snowden/assange/manning. | 18:25 |
| kanzure | it should be something like.. "freedom blower". | 18:25 |
| kanzure | but, you know, good. | 18:25 |
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| yashgaroth | hmm | 18:27 |
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| jonathan___ | austin is all over the news due to affirmative action supreme court ruling | 18:34 |
| jonathan___ | I'd love to know why my affirmative action bid also didn't work | 18:35 |
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| kanzure | there were two girls in that lawsuit originally | 18:35 |
| kanzure | the one that isn't mentioned in the article went to middle and high school with me. rode my bus. | 18:35 |
| jonathan___ | since I was the only white guy in a program otherwise filled with 30 asians/indians | 18:36 |
| kanzure | she was complaining about these problems back then. hehe. | 18:36 |
| kanzure | (rachel michalewicz) | 18:37 |
| kanzure | it took me like 4 years to figure out how to spell her name, until i found a students.csv sitting on a server somewhere. | 18:37 |
| kanzure | anywho i got into ut austin using the top 10% rule | 18:39 |
| kanzure | and she was classize+1 person away from being included in top 10% or something. | 18:39 |
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| jonathan___ | wow | 18:40 |
| jonathan___ | how on earth are you the 10% | 18:40 |
| kanzure | huh? anyone in top 10% counts. so top 1%, 3%, 5% etc. | 18:41 |
| jonathan___ | Ohhh | 18:41 |
| yashgaroth | top 10% of what | 18:41 |
| kanzure | shitty rule, though. #5 was a good person, studious, but was particularly clever about picking only classes that were guaranteed to keep a high gpa. | 18:42 |
| kanzure | graduating class of the given school | 18:42 |
| yashgaroth | ah | 18:42 |
| jonathan___ | Not sure how electrical engineering can possibly be affirmative action if everyone in the class is asian. Hm, well I did have a lot of mexican immigrants in my classes too. just zero white guys.. not very affirmative I guess. | 18:42 |
| gradstudentbot | God, I'm going to quit. | 18:42 |
| kanzure | gradstudentbot: you can't quit, you have a paper to write. | 18:42 |
| gradstudentbot | Yeah, but who gets to be first author? | 18:42 |
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| jonathan___ | Hm, I slept thru calculus class because was up too late at night writing uber codez | 18:43 |
| jonathan___ | I don't think I would have made it in the top 1%. 10% not sure. | 18:44 |
| kanzure | i took calculus before i could write fluent latex, and as a result all of calculus notes are in html. | 18:44 |
| kanzure | huh, didn't know this.. "In 2011, Michalewicz withdrew from the case, leaving Fisher as the sole plaintiff.[5][8]" | 18:44 |
| jonathan___ | I remember one of the top %'er girls getting rejected from uc berkeley. supposedly she cried all night. asian born in the u.s. to immigrant parents. she later got in, on appeal. | 18:45 |
| kanzure | it's stupid anyway, you can get in anywhere after a year of community college or if you become an employee in some cases | 18:45 |
| jonathan___ | I would guess texas has much better high schools than california anyway, california is one of the lower qualities | 18:46 |
| kanzure | ut austin seemed to be the same as anywhere else. lots of extra resources. typical large-student intro classes. | 18:46 |
| yashgaroth | depends what city, like anywhere | 18:46 |
| kanzure | they wanted me to write visual basic scripts in the engineering intro course.. with excel macros. | 18:47 |
| kanzure | was not impressed | 18:47 |
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| jonathan___ | Hm | 18:48 |
| jonathan___ | They really should have special tracks for some kids for sure. | 18:48 |
| jonathan___ | I could have finished an entire CS degree in parallel with high school no problem. | 18:49 |
| kanzure | my special track was "work 3 lab jobs, hang out with cynical phd students, coauthor some papers with gradstudentbot, then drop out" | 18:49 |
| gradstudentbot | Am I going to be first author? | 18:49 |
| jonathan___ | maybe something like: audit the entire first 2 years of undergrad. | 18:49 |
| kanzure | i think auditing is a good idea | 18:49 |
| kanzure | i should have audited the courses that actually mattered. like the 400-level mechanical and electrical engineering courses. | 18:49 |
| kanzure | it would be nice to actually know how to spell thievenen | 18:50 |
| jonathan___ | I audited some business classes.. lol.. could not believe the college kids complaining about how hard the quizzes were, what. | 18:50 |
| kanzure | but yeah, a CS degree while in high school is definitely doable | 18:50 |
| jonathan___ | Unfortunately it ends up with the problem of being super young in the workplace then attempting to delegate work to 45 y/o's ... some of them are cool with this, some are not. | 18:51 |
| kanzure | all of the intro courses were just so disappointing. what i needed to be forced to do was write compilers and grammars and haskell, and instead they wanted me to write windows script host and re-re-re-study the dot product or partial differential equations. | 18:51 |
| kanzure | are you delegating work to people significantly older than you/ | 18:52 |
| jonathan___ | definitely | 18:52 |
| jonathan___ | especially out of college | 18:52 |
| jonathan___ | just cause their title says "senior engineer" doesnt mean smart enough to get the job done.. it basically means, been around longer.. often doing a not-so-great job | 18:53 |
| jonathan___ | I remember several coworkers really took things very poorly.. imagine being handed a stack of specification document from a young kid and they can't understand how to implement it then I have to train them how to do it | 18:54 |
| jonathan___ | and then they still just squeak by | 18:54 |
| kanzure | i am a big fan of the "arrive to a meeting over-prepared" method | 18:55 |
| kanzure | where you show up with the plans that you recommend | 18:55 |
| kanzure | since nobody else does this, usually your plans will be accepted | 18:55 |
| kanzure | i have had no problems with teaching older people how to do things | 18:56 |
| kanzure | today i gave a presentation about git to some people that are 3x my age | 18:56 |
| kanzure | they really appreciated it and thanked me profusely | 18:56 |
| jonathan___ | well, did they show up voluntarily? If so they already were open to it. | 18:56 |
| kanzure | it was simple things like "don't call it origin, call it github" and "don't pull, use fetch and merge" and other platitudes. | 18:56 |
| kanzure | oh good point, yes it was voluntary | 18:56 |
| kanzure | ok evidence retracted | 18:57 |
| jonathan___ | one comment I've heard a lot thru the years, after I learn a new whatever in a couple weeks. the senior guys like this will say "but you're young, so you can still learn fast" | 18:58 |
| jonathan___ | um, how about: "you're dumb, so you'll never get it anyway" | 18:58 |
| kanzure | haha, right, the "we'll just attribute it to the fact that you're young' | 18:59 |
| kanzure | oops i mean ". shift key problems today. | 18:59 |
| jonathan___ | what is the perfect engineering job which can be done 100% remote and 100% without any hardware other than a laptop? | 19:01 |
| gradstudentbot | I'm glad you brought that up, I'm going to do that right now. | 19:01 |
| jonathan___ | perfect meaning combination of: highest pay, easiest work, fewest hours. | 19:01 |
| kanzure | jonathan___: software | 19:01 |
| kanzure | jonathan___: i'm in san jose this month doing a contracting gig for a few weeks (but soon it'll be remote-only) | 19:02 |
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| kanzure | jonathan___: up for a quick phone call? i'd be happy to elaborate. | 19:02 |
| kanzure | oh wait you're anti-phone | 19:02 |
| kanzure | didn't think | 19:02 |
| jonathan___ | let me boot up my nsa-tapped skype | 19:04 |
| kanzure | skype is inconvenient right now | 19:04 |
| kanzure | there is nothing that i have to say to you that the nsa doesn't already know, but these are things you don't know | 19:04 |
| klafka | lol | 19:04 |
| jonathan___ | skype is only on my end. call my 'mobile' | 19:05 |
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| jonathan___ | ben bernanke is like gum stuck on the sidewalk | 19:43 |
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| ryankarason | have any of you used Big Blue Button? | 19:49 |
| ryankarason | seems NSA-free:) | 19:49 |
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| kanzure | jonathan___: my phone decided to reboot during our call | 19:50 |
| jonathan___ | blasted android! | 19:50 |
| jonathan___ | or.. the nsa | 19:50 |
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| skyLotus | hey | 19:51 |
| jonathan___ | we'll catch up later when my wifi connection is better. dropouts are lame. | 19:52 |
| kanzure | jonathan___: ok. i was just going to describe a failure mode of memory that allows for 'bit squatting'. it's like domain name typo squatting except for memory failure causing a phone to send a different url. so i was thinking of bit squatting some ad networks to collect their errant data. | 19:53 |
| ryankarason | use mumble:) it works with pretty low latency. | 19:53 |
| jonathan___ | ironic they call it mumble then eh? | 19:54 |
| ryankarason | haha | 19:54 |
| ryankarason | what i like about mumble is it takes out the noise from audio before it sends across the wire | 19:54 |
| ryankarason | so you end up getting a higher good bit rate | 19:54 |
| jonathan___ | Um, at least that's what they say | 19:55 |
| ryankarason | right right | 19:55 |
| jonathan___ | voice compression algs already do that | 19:55 |
| ryankarason | but i have hosted a mumble server on a raspberry pi with crappy internet | 19:55 |
| skyLotus | I'm looking into majors to pursue and I'm wondering if any of you can give some insight on what I'm thinking about | 19:55 |
| ryankarason | and i was able to host 3 or 4 people without any noticeable lags | 19:55 |
| jonathan___ | don't major in BIO | 19:55 |
| kanzure | biology is the worst thing to major in, if you want to be employable | 19:56 |
| jonathan___ | well raspberry pi has more than enough cpu power for multiple voice channels.. estimate 35 Mhz per channel. | 19:56 |
| skyLotus | what about biomedical engineering? | 19:56 |
| ryankarason | jonathan___: good point. | 19:56 |
| jonathan___ | heard complaints about biomed eng | 19:56 |
| jonathan___ | it's mostly mech eng with skeletons thrown in | 19:56 |
| ryankarason | computer science is a guarenteed job in my opinion. | 19:57 |
| kanzure | so the pilot hit the promega building | 19:57 |
| skyLotus | hmm | 19:57 |
| kanzure | and then crashed into a fedex truck (fedex driver was out of the vehicle for delivery) | 19:58 |
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| jonathan___ | wow | 19:58 |
| kanzure | http://www.sanluisobispo.com/2013/06/24/2558918/plane-hits-fedex-truck-slo.html | 19:58 |
| kanzure | http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/06/24/california-plane-hits-fedex-truck/2453871/ | 19:58 |
| skyLotus | Yeah, my whole life I've been really interested in computers. When I look at the list of topics for a CS / CE major I know a great deal about most of the topics but, I don't really think I want to pursue it as my major | 19:58 |
| kanzure | skyLotus: don't go to college | 19:58 |
| kanzure | skyLotus: do you do any programming right now? | 19:59 |
| jonathan___ | mutant promega organisms are runnign wild right now | 19:59 |
| kanzure | jonathan___: maybe promega prices will go down! | 19:59 |
| kanzure | wouldn't that be wonderful | 19:59 |
| skyLotus | I'm working on it, I never fully learned a programming language properly till now, almost done learning java and then I can get into programming real apps with it | 19:59 |
| kanzure | what country? | 20:00 |
| skyLotus | I kind of just know a little about everything when it comes to computers | 20:00 |
| skyLotus | US | 20:00 |
| kanzure | where in the US? | 20:01 |
| jonathan___ | "java" != "real apps" | 20:01 |
| skyLotus | In the midwest currently | 20:01 |
| kanzure | midwest is not the best place for software employment | 20:02 |
| skyLotus | Well, it's what I'm learning atm | 20:02 |
| kanzure | especially for someone with no experience | 20:02 |
| kanzure | i don't recommend starting with java | 20:02 |
| skyLotus | yeah I want to move to california eventually, but i'm not there yet | 20:02 |
| jonathan___ | python is a great 1st language | 20:02 |
| kanzure | agreed | 20:02 |
| skyLotus | Well java is the course I'm signed up for and so it's what im going to learn first | 20:02 |
| jonathan___ | or 2nd or 3rd even | 20:02 |
| kanzure | don't bother with a course | 20:02 |
| jonathan___ | a couple software courses are good | 20:03 |
| kanzure | you can learn over the internet by bugging angry irc people | 20:03 |
| skyLotus | I've worked a little bit with python, java, c++ and a couple other programming languages | 20:03 |
| jonathan___ | just do all the homework and software on your own, refuse to work with a team, they'll just slow you down | 20:03 |
| skyLotus | yeah, i'm taking an online course from udacity atm | 20:03 |
| skyLotus | it's pretty good | 20:04 |
| kanzure | jonathan___: "refuse to work with a team" is nice in theory, but in practice wont help someone with zero experience | 20:04 |
| kanzure | jonathan___: i think working with a team of more experienced people is ok | 20:04 |
| kanzure | skyLotus: i highly recommend not using udacity. their programming courses are sub-par. | 20:04 |
| skyLotus | :\ | 20:04 |
| jonathan___ | my team was my copy of K&R, lol | 20:04 |
| kanzure | jonathan___: i have a friend that learned programming on udacity, but doesn't know the difference between return/print. | 20:04 |
| ryankarason | i had no problem getting a cs job in the midwest | 20:04 |
| kanzure | ryankarason: yeah, because nobody wants them | 20:04 |
| kanzure | and they pay low | 20:05 |
| skyLotus | Well I started learning programming when I was in 7th grade | 20:05 |
| kanzure | skyLotus: too old | 20:05 |
| ryankarason | i also agree don't go to college. plenty to learn about programming online | 20:05 |
| kanzure | skyLotus: should have started when you were in the womb | 20:05 |
| ryankarason | kanzure: i think it is getting better, but maybe my opinion is too biased. | 20:05 |
| jonathan___ | go to college but take a major like art or something | 20:05 |
| kanzure | skyLotus: you can achieve a lot without classes | 20:05 |
| ryankarason | i concur. | 20:05 |
| skyLotus | so even though the course isn't the best it's okay because i have alot of knowledge from learning before and i'm getting through it now | 20:05 |
| ryankarason | also, MIT open courseware | 20:05 |
| kanzure | mit open courseware doesn't teach programming that well, either | 20:06 |
| skyLotus | the thing is... without a course I haven't really got myself to learn programming | 20:06 |
| kanzure | how about peer pressure? | 20:06 |
| kanzure | or guilt | 20:06 |
| skyLotus | i have so many other priorities | 20:06 |
| kanzure | we can guilt you | 20:06 |
| ryankarason | but as for programming langauges to learn, if you want to have fun; do Common Lisp. | 20:06 |
| kanzure | jonathan___: my phone has no log of our call | 20:06 |
| jonathan___ | your problem is discipline, eh | 20:06 |
| kanzure | jonathan___: i think something really broke on my end | 20:06 |
| ryankarason | and school's don't teach discipline | 20:06 |
| jonathan___ | haha totally nsa | 20:07 |
| skyLotus | hey that would be nice, you guys can guilt me into finishing java and maybe working with it when I'm done with the course | 20:07 |
| jonathan___ | cia and kgb too | 20:07 |
| skyLotus | it's not really discipline it's just other priorities | 20:07 |
| * ryankarason is starting to get curious what ya'll are talking about such that all the worlds goverment agencys are blocking it | 20:07 | |
| gradstudentbot | Yeah, it's significant. | 20:07 |
| jonathan___ | gradstudentbot: have you filed a patent yet | 20:07 |
| gradstudentbot | I haven't written the abstract. | 20:07 |
| ryankarason | skyLotus: maybe try to find a way to merge priorities | 20:07 |
| jonathan___ | Common Lisp, that is not useful at all | 20:08 |
| kanzure | ryankarason: just normal business stuff, jonathan___ wanted the scoop on some things that aren't appropriate to dump into an irc channel | 20:08 |
| jonathan___ | I have never seen a recruiting ad that says "Must be Rockstar in Common Lisp" | 20:08 |
| skyLotus | well, that's what I am doing I started to go to college and I decided to take a programming course | 20:08 |
| skyLotus | anyway thats kind of beside the point | 20:09 |
| ryankarason | kanzure: ah, that is sensible. | 20:09 |
| skyLotus | I'm trying to decide what to major in | 20:09 |
| kanzure | skyLotus: well, just know that you can achieve a lot without doing those things. programming is a great option. biology less so. you can do biology, but you should learn it through community college or as a hobby. | 20:09 |
| ryankarason | jonathan___: i would agree, but learning lisp is about learning how to approach a program in new ways | 20:09 |
| jonathan___ | go with whatever major has the hottest girls. It works for the majority of the population. | 20:09 |
| ryankarason | and maybe major languages are starting to pull ideas from CL | 20:09 |
| ryankarason | such as Java 8 is planning to introduce lambdas. | 20:09 |
| kanzure | jonathan___: sadly, that's reasonably good advice. maybe some bachelors of arts degree program, in journalism or something. | 20:09 |
| jonathan___ | I would suggest that learning to program is done by hand assembling machine code. pbbbt | 20:10 |
| kanzure | pbbbt == pffft? | 20:10 |
| ryankarason | i really really want to learn more about biology | 20:10 |
| ryankarason | and also about its merge with computer sciences | 20:10 |
| jonathan___ | pbbbbt is pffft but more spit lol | 20:10 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/wiki/diybio/faq/books | 20:10 |
| ryankarason | thanks kanzure ! | 20:10 |
| kanzure | gradstudentbot: calculate the spit ratio | 20:10 |
| gradstudentbot | I think I'm going to do industry. | 20:10 |
| jonathan___ | db/dt pbbbt = pffft | 20:11 |
| ryankarason | i really enjoyed biology and chemistry in high school. just never had the opportunity to take much of them in college | 20:11 |
| ryankarason | i need to see if there are any diybio groups in my area | 20:11 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/wiki/diybio/groups | 20:11 |
| skyLotus | I want to take biomedical engineering at school, I'm just not sure that's the right choice | 20:11 |
| jonathan___ | biochem eng is far superior to BIO from what I've seen | 20:12 |
| jonathan___ | there is no right choice except Highest Salary | 20:12 |
| kanzure | jonathan___: right now biology labor is really really cheap, i'm trying to figure out how to take advantage of this | 20:12 |
| jonathan___ | "do what you love" is what your mom will say right after "don't worry you're a good looking man, to me" | 20:12 |
| jonathan___ | Highest Salary guy could end up doing the exact same work as the Lame Major guy, in the end, except with the obvious difference | 20:13 |
| skyLotus | So do any of you do any diybio on your own? | 20:14 |
| ryankarason | kanzure: :( no Ohio groups. | 20:14 |
| jonathan___ | find a way to get your college paid for, is another way | 20:14 |
| skyLotus | I'm just not gonna worry about it right | 20:14 |
| skyLotus | now | 20:14 |
| skyLotus | I've got some plans how I'm getting college paid for | 20:14 |
| skyLotus | I'm thinking of what to do with my future | 20:14 |
| jonathan___ | really? how? | 20:14 |
| skyLotus | and this is just a major decision | 20:14 |
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| ryankarason | Molecular Biology of the Gene: 404 error :( | 20:15 |
| jonathan___ | in college, where you go is often more important than what you go for | 20:15 |
| kanzure | ryankarason: there's some ohio activity in toledo i think | 20:15 |
| kanzure | ryankarason: possibly via mike grube | 20:15 |
| skyLotus | jonathan____ careerwise or experiencewise? | 20:16 |
| ryankarason | hrm, only 2.5 hrs | 20:17 |
| jonathan___ | venture capitalist wise | 20:17 |
| ryankarason | i may have to inquire more | 20:17 |
| kanzure | ryankarason: 2.5 hours is too far. where are you? | 20:17 |
| ryankarason | i live in the Capitol | 20:17 |
| ryankarason | columbus, you would think there would be some activity here | 20:17 |
| kanzure | hold on.. thinking. | 20:18 |
| kanzure | how about these people? http://columbusideafoundry.com/ | 20:18 |
| jonathan___ | "research associate (molecular biology) $35k-$49k" | 20:18 |
| skyLotus | Kanzure what do you use for bookmarking and saving websites? | 20:19 |
| kanzure | that's actually on the high end for molecular biology | 20:19 |
| jonathan___ | "Senior Biological Scientist - University of Florida $35k - $52k" | 20:19 |
| jonathan___ | isn't that like... poverty level or something? | 20:19 |
| kanzure | skyLotus: 1) memory, i force myself to type out urls by hand, 2) i wrote a custom flat-file bookmarking system, 3) i want to use http://pinboard.in/ eventually | 20:19 |
| kanzure | jonathan___: yes | 20:19 |
| yashgaroth | we biologists just learn to live without nonessentials | 20:20 |
| jonathan___ | the real BIO money is on kickstarter these days! (rolls eyes) | 20:21 |
| cogitokat | "Senior Biological Scientist - University of Florida $35k - $52k" No wonder everyone here is so grumpy. | 20:21 |
| yashgaroth | between the glowing plant and the shitty EEG that got linked yesterday that raised 300k, I could totally bullshit my way to an early retirement in mexico | 20:21 |
| skyLotus | pinboard looks nice, I've always thought of making a bookmarking system but I've got to learn programming first lol | 20:22 |
| jonathan___ | "Senior Software Architect in San Diego, CA$104,000" | 20:26 |
| ryankarason | columbus idea foundary seems really interesting. didn't notice anything about diybio but i did about many of topics i am interested in. classes seem a bit pricey, but very very intrigued none the eless | 20:26 |
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| jonathan___ | no wonder pharma has such a hard time, if good people won't go into the low paying major. | 20:27 |
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| jonathan___ | "Principal Dsp Engineer$159,000" | 20:28 |
| skyLotus | So you said that I don't need a degree if I go into programming? | 20:35 |
| kanzure | you don't need a degree to do programming | 20:36 |
| skyLotus | Do any you have any experience with getting programming work without a degree | 20:36 |
| yashgaroth | yes he does | 20:37 |
| skyLotus | how does that work? Do you just do your own projects and hope for something to be good enough for people to pay for it, or do you get a job? | 20:38 |
| kanzure | you can do both, but the second one (get a job) is much more likely to work. | 20:39 |
| kanzure | wtf, i was just on a phone call and mentioned phosphoric acid | 20:39 |
| skyLotus | When applying to jobs do you just send them code of what you've already made and that's what they use to evaluate you? | 20:40 |
| kanzure | and then i received spam selling phosphoric acid | 20:40 |
| kanzure | (i get the weirdest spam) | 20:40 |
| kanzure | but this seems to be extremely unlikely to be coincidence | 20:40 |
| skyLotus | haha strange... | 20:40 |
| kanzure | skyLotus: sort of. depending on who the company is, you show them a very specific example project or two. | 20:40 |
| skyLotus | I see | 20:41 |
| kanzure | skyLotus: for example, for a company in the bay area (like san francisco or mountain view), you would do a project in python/flask, python/django, ruby/rails, ruby/sinatra, javascript, something like that, to demonstrate your ability. then you would schedule an interview, where you would hear about the problems the company has, and then you get hired. | 20:41 |
| kanzure | (you would intentionally show that project to each person you are talking with) | 20:42 |
| skyLotus | that makes a whole lot of sense | 20:42 |
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| skyLotus | Yeah I'm going to have to make a choice eventually what I end up doing | 20:43 |
| ryankarason | my suggestion is to make a github account and publicly post and opensource your softwarez | 20:43 |
| skyLotus | for me personally, I find it hard to really concentrate on one subject | 20:43 |
| ryankarason | the cool thing about computer science is it is embedded in every subject | 20:44 |
| skyLotus | I want to learn everything but it's not really possible | 20:44 |
| ryankarason | or at least has the potential to be | 20:44 |
| kanzure | ryankarason: no, they don't actually look at your github account. while it's true that you should make a git repository and put it on github, they wont actually look. | 20:44 |
| ryankarason | kanzure: interesting. | 20:44 |
| kanzure | ryankarason: i've gone through 50+ interviews and i can guarantee you that nobody looks at your github repos, no matter how many you have: http://github.com/kanzure | 20:44 |
| ryankarason | interesting. | 20:44 |
| kanzure | (the reason i go through those interviews is because i'm really picky) | 20:45 |
| skyLotus | Kanzure how do you decide on a company to work for, are you interested in working in startups or in estalished companies? | 20:45 |
| ryankarason | ah. makes sense to be | 20:45 |
| ryankarason | it is *your* future. | 20:45 |
| jonathan___ | DSP engineer requires a fair degree of high level math which is very difficult to learn independently | 20:46 |
| kanzure | skyLotus: i am interested in being paid, so i work for whoever pays me. | 20:46 |
| ryankarason | i believe i have known people whom their github accnt has been look at by a company, but these were startups i believe | 20:46 |
| kanzure | startups sometimes look, but not always | 20:46 |
| ryankarason | $ is useful. | 20:46 |
| ryankarason | kanzure: if you had to suggestion any one starter diybio book to purchase, could you? | 20:47 |
| kanzure | no. don't buy books. | 20:47 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/wiki/diybio/faq/books | 20:47 |
| jonathan___ | "current protocols in molecular biology" | 20:48 |
| kanzure | "current methods in molecular biology" is a larger series than current protocols, also worth it | 20:48 |
| ryankarason | okay thanks | 20:51 |
| gradstudentbot | I'm so doing industry. | 20:51 |
| ryankarason | Moleculary Biology of the Gene link is broken. | 20:52 |
| ryankarason | is there another source? | 20:52 |
| jonathan___ | I've gotten pings to interview from my Perl Robotics work | 20:52 |
| jonathan___ | that's clearly mentioned on my resume and linkedin | 20:52 |
| jonathan___ | although the last couple pings I got by recruiters thru linkedin, after acking their email and asking them specifics, they reply "send me your resume"... so I responded "Just copy & paste my linkedin profile, no one uses resumes anymore" ..... silence. ha | 20:53 |
| kanzure | jonathan___: what about transcriptic? have you considered them? | 20:54 |
| kanzure | ryankarason: http://libgen.net/ | 20:54 |
| jonathan___ | I'm only so-so interested in continnuing with the robotics work because it is lab oriented and I'd rather not have to go into a lab anymore | 20:55 |
| jonathan___ | Hodak sent me email long ago very eager to talk to me | 20:56 |
| skyLotus | so you don't really recommend I learn java first, but let's say thats what I do. Do you have any recommendations what I should do after that? | 20:57 |
| kanzure | hodak is probably in the "buckle down" phase while he gets revenues higher so he can pay for his engineering force | 20:57 |
| kanzure | skyLotus: if you insist on java, then you should learn spring or jboss or something, whatever is hot in the java world. make sure you use maven or ant. | 20:58 |
| kanzure | skyLotus: but other than that, you should use python, or even jython if you insist on java/jvm things. python is a great place to start. | 20:58 |
| jonathan___ | "According to an SEC filing, Zynga’s unsecured credit line has been cut from $1 billion to $200 million. Zynga also recently cut 18% of its staff. " .... easy come easy go | 20:58 |
| kanzure | jonathan___: yeah, they fired 500 people a few weeks ago | 20:58 |
| cogitokat | If you learn python after java, it will make you feel really good and like you are cheating. | 20:58 |
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| jonathan___ | learn java then write cool plugins for libreoffice | 20:59 |
| skyLotus | I think I will mostlikely learn python after java | 20:59 |
| jonathan___ | like, a paperbot plugin | 20:59 |
| kanzure | haha who the hell wants to write for libreoffice, jeeze | 20:59 |
| kanzure | that code base was not fun | 20:59 |
| ryankarason | learn Clojure after Java:) | 20:59 |
| jonathan___ | learn objective c after java, then you can make money while you learn | 21:00 |
| kanzure | you can get paid a reasonable wage in the mid-west as a java drone, but you can make more doing other things literally everywhere else | 21:00 |
| skyLotus | well I'm pretty much locked in to learning java right now and learning java is better than learning no programming. If I want to continue after learning java python would be a good choice you think? | 21:02 |
| ryankarason | what about Jython? | 21:03 |
| skyLotus | should i get practice using for a while with java and then after a couple months do python? | 21:03 |
| skyLotus | when will I know I'm ready | 21:03 |
| kanzure | i think you should do python right now, like 5 minutes ago. it's really easy. | 21:03 |
| ryankarason | http://www.jython.org/index.html | 21:04 |
| ryankarason | :P~ | 21:04 |
| kanzure | ryankarason: i think jython might be a bad idea actually, i was sort of being sarcastic.. the jvm access is nice, but totally unnecessary. | 21:04 |
| skyLotus | does anyone actually use jython for anything? | 21:04 |
| ryankarason | i was talking to a man in industry that uses jython | 21:04 |
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| ryankarason | but learning Python is useful if you want to contribute to the majority of open source projects | 21:05 |
| kanzure | the majority of open source projects are not written in python. | 21:05 |
| gradstudentbot | The paper was rejected. | 21:05 |
| kanzure | there's a huge history of open source software written in 100s of other languages | 21:05 |
| ryankarason | i personally enjoy studying many programming languages | 21:05 |
| ryankarason | i suppose most of the people i personally know that do open source programming use python | 21:06 |
| kanzure | skyLotus: yes i use jython sometimes. but not always. and not regularly. | 21:06 |
| gradstudentbot | Friends don't let friends go to super school. | 21:06 |
| kanzure | skyLotus: i would say about 0.1% of the time i use python, i use jython. | 21:06 |
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| ryankarason | jvm does have its benefits. it is really interesting how many languages are starting to move over to being built on top of it | 21:07 |
| skyLotus | Okay, well. I'm just going to learn what I'm learning. Probably not the best in the long run but I'll know for next time to become a bit more informed in what I'm doing. | 21:07 |
| skyLotus | I'm going to stick around in this irc and stop in more often and you guys can hold my feet to the fire about learning it :) | 21:08 |
| ryankarason | my personal thought about programming languages is highly dependent upon what i want to do with the language. if i was doing web development i would use Ruby, if i were doing fancy shell hacking, i use Python. if i were trying to enjoy myself i would use Common Lisp. if i were going to prototype something quickly, i would use Java. | 21:08 |
| jonathan___ | skyLotus what's your age? | 21:09 |
| skyLotus | I'm 20 | 21:09 |
| gradstudentbot | Yeah, that's a really good question. I don't know, but I'll have to look into that. | 21:10 |
| jonathan___ | If I were writing any code that is not dependent on cpu usage or a GUI, I would use python pretty much period. | 21:10 |
| kanzure | yup | 21:10 |
| kanzure | java is worth knowing eventually, but a 20 year old isn't going to get hired for java chops, he's going to get hired for python chops | 21:10 |
| ryankarason | interesting. i personally don't write any python. | 21:10 |
| ryankarason | but i can read it. | 21:11 |
| kanzure | well, ruby is also an acceptable replacement in my sentence | 21:11 |
| skyLotus | why what makes the difference in being hired for one language over another? | 21:11 |
| kanzure | except ruby isn't fun to read | 21:11 |
| gradstudentbot | Can I defend with just one aim done? | 21:11 |
| kanzure | skyLotus: there is market demand for skills in different languages. i know it sounds stupid, but that's the way the world ticks right now. | 21:12 |
| ryankarason | right, you need to find out what industry is using. | 21:12 |
| ryankarason | those from my experience they seem to do alot of Java and C# | 21:12 |
| kanzure | C# is pretty much mid-west only :) | 21:12 |
| skyLotus | I really don't know much aout how the industry looks and it's something I should learn to get better at | 21:12 |
| ryankarason | ah that is interesting | 21:12 |
| kanzure | oh also seattle does lots of C# | 21:12 |
| ryankarason | i am also told if you want to make good money | 21:13 |
| ryankarason | learn Cobol | 21:13 |
| ryankarason | because a lot of legacy systems use it and are in dire need of being convereted | 21:13 |
| kanzure | skyLotus: i started a survey about that, you should read the comments here.. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5802295 | 21:13 |
| kanzure | jonathan___: you might be interested in that link too | 21:13 |
| gradstudentbot | Uh, interesting question. | 21:15 |
| skyLotus | how is that poll related to what I said? | 21:17 |
| kanzure | "I really don't know much aout how the industry looks" | 21:17 |
| kanzure | so i gave you some data | 21:17 |
| skyLotus | ah i see thanks | 21:17 |
| skyLotus | what I meant was like what languages are popular, what are they used for, what kind of programs are being worked on. I'm clueless on all of that. I just know some basic programming concepts but never applied it to real work | 21:18 |
| kanzure | top languages- https://github.com/languages | 21:19 |
| kanzure | popular projects- https://github.com/repositories | 21:19 |
| skyLotus | that's really useful I'm going to have to get more familiar with github | 21:20 |
| kanzure | here's some work i have up on github, https://github.com/kanzure | 21:21 |
| jonathan___ | C# and java are the same language, just depends if you hate microsoft then avoid C# that's all | 21:21 |
| jonathan___ | c and objective c are near the same language, just depends if you love apple the learn obj c that's all | 21:22 |
| skyLotus | Is knowing assembly useful jobwise? | 21:22 |
| jonathan___ | if you do hardware related projects, yes | 21:22 |
| jonathan___ | there are still good jobs in assembly language dsp programming for some algorithms | 21:23 |
| jonathan___ | or kernel startup code | 21:23 |
| jonathan___ | or graphics accelleration | 21:23 |
| skyLotus | okay that's good to know, I always just saw it useful for gamehacking never knew it could be good for other things | 21:24 |
| skyLotus | how old are you guys? | 21:24 |
| jonathan___ | I don't age | 21:24 |
| skyLotus | pfft | 21:24 |
| jonathan___ | I want to get into this range 160k-169k | 21:25 |
| skyLotus | have you been coding for a long time? | 21:25 |
| jonathan___ | I have been coding since age 6 | 21:25 |
| jonathan___ | in 7th grade I was writing assembly language | 21:25 |
| jonathan___ | hand assembled from opcodes | 21:26 |
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| jonathan___ | it's fairly common | 21:26 |
| skyLotus | yeah | 21:26 |
| jonathan___ | i wrote a complete social networking site in 8th grade | 21:27 |
| skyLotus | seems that way | 21:27 |
| jonathan___ | in this language, what was it called, acos I think | 21:27 |
| skyLotus | your really bad at coding | 21:27 |
| jonathan___ | not dissimilar to python | 21:27 |
| kanzure | skyLotus: i am 23 | 21:27 |
| skyLotus | but i've got nothing against you | 21:27 |
| skyLotus | I'll know java by the end of summer | 21:29 |
| jonathan___ | ah, here's some random link of acos. wow crazy http://shootingstarbbs.kicks-ass.net/files/Apple_II/ACOS%20BBS%20Code/ROBBING.SEG.S.TXT | 21:29 |
| jonathan___ | damn zuckerburg was late to the party, we had it all set up way before he got on the scene LOL | 21:31 |
| jonathan___ | hey, the best business is one in which people are physically addicted to the product. | 21:31 |
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| jonathan___ | Pharmacokinetics and Phenomenology of Inhaled Salvinorin A in Humans http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKVYzytVpFc | 21:38 |
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| jonathan___ | facebook is apparently very addictive to humanity | 21:44 |
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| jonathan___ | paperbot: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21131142 | 22:05 |
| paperbot | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/d5c0de2fd5fb19c23713c6bd6b4ec6.txt | 22:05 |
| jonathan___ | doh that's a free pub.. yet paperbot got stuck | 22:06 |
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| kanzure | ncbi often doesn't have a pdf link | 22:47 |
| sivoais | but it does if you follow to PMC. Might be useful to have that as a special case since it is so common in certain fields | 22:57 |
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| kanzure | sivoais: submit a bug report or a patch, https://github.com/kanzure/paperbot | 23:09 |
| skyLotus | Thanks for the help today guys | 23:09 |
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| kanzure | oh look someone bothered to type The Wild | 23:33 |
| kanzure | http://worldtracker.org/media/library/English%20Literature/Z/Zindell,%20David/David%20Zindell%20-%20RfHS%202%20-%20The%20Wild.pdf | 23:33 |
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| kanzure | oh, they don't have the last one. lame. | 23:34 |
| kanzure | sivoais: thanks | 23:37 |
| sivoais | no problem | 23:37 |
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| --- Log closed Tue Jun 25 00:00:06 2013 | ||
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