| --- Log opened Sun Jul 28 00:00:38 2013 | ||
| @heath | paper based microfludic design won't do for this design, but maybe there's another design is ideal for the FLASH method | 00:02 |
|---|---|---|
| @heath | paperbot: https://www.sciencemag.org/content/288/5463/113.long | 00:17 |
| paperbot | http://pdf.highwire.org/stamped/sci/288/5463/113.full.pdf | 00:17 |
| @heath | paperbot: https://www.sciencemag.org/content/298/5593/580.long | 00:17 |
| paperbot | http://pdf.highwire.org/stamped/sci/298/5593/580.full.pdf | 00:17 |
| @heath | this is going to be useful: http://www.coleparmer.com/Category/Microbore_PTFE_Tubing/6820 | 00:30 |
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| @kanzure | if i have to upload a few gigabytes, where should i go to do it quickly? | 04:54 |
| xl0 | Your own vps. | 04:56 |
| @kanzure | nope, the data is local to my physical presence | 04:57 |
| @kanzure | getting it to my vps would take forever from my current location | 04:57 |
| @kanzure | this is why i am asking where i should go | 04:57 |
| @kanzure | please proceed to nearest exist | 04:57 |
| ThomasEgi | any nearby universities? | 04:57 |
| @kanzure | oh, hm | 04:58 |
| @kanzure | yes | 04:58 |
| xl0 | Are you, like, in US? | 04:58 |
| ThomasEgi | many have pretty good internet connections. maybe not over wifi. but if you find a cable to plug in somewhere. that should do the trick | 04:58 |
| @kanzure | xl0: yes. | 04:58 |
| @kanzure | ThomasEgi: okay. too bad google fiber hasn't hit yet. the bilboards are promising "soon". | 04:59 |
| ThomasEgi | you mean NSA fibre :D | 04:59 |
| ThomasEgi | *fiber | 05:00 |
| @kanzure | shrug, whatever. i'm supposed to be a fed, right? | 05:00 |
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| biostudent | paperbot: http://www.nature.com/nbt/journal/v29/n9/full/nbt0911-774.html?WT.ec_id=NBT-201109 | 08:03 |
| paperbot | http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1038%2Fnbt0911-774 | 08:03 |
| biostudent | cheers paperbot | 08:04 |
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| @heath | gradstudentbot meet biostudent | 09:43 |
| gradstudentbot | The fluorescent microscope is broken. | 09:43 |
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| biostudent | we're acquainted, eh gradstudentbot? | 10:22 |
| gradstudentbot | Who got mustard on my cell culture? | 10:22 |
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| @ParahSail1n | i can't find non-PR of this http://www.nottingham.ac.uk/news/pressreleases/2013/july/world-changing-technology-enables-crops-to-take-nitrogen-from-the-air-.aspx | 11:14 |
| @ParahSail1n | paperbot, http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/gcbb.12006/abstract | 11:15 |
| paperbot | http://libgen.org/scimag4/10.1111/gcbb.12006.pdf | 11:15 |
| @ParahSail1n | seems related | 11:15 |
| gradstudentbot | The fluorescent microscope is broken. | 11:16 |
| @ParahSail1n | dude hasnt published recently | 11:17 |
| jrayhawk_ | 13:45 <@kanzure> jrayhawk_: what was your earlier point about me being a terrible person for not having a long list of non-engineering-related tasks for people to do? | 11:19 |
| @ParahSail1n | http://www.azotictechnologies.com/index.php/technology/ | 11:19 |
| jrayhawk_ | the idea was to have a list of non-engineering project lists similar to your engineering project lists that would be used as a counterexample for when people claim that you think non-engineers are useless | 11:20 |
| jrayhawk_ | a claim you seemed disproportionately indignant about on the occasions on which it arose | 11:21 |
| jrayhawk_ | if you don't really care, then eh | 11:21 |
| @kanzure | jrayhawk_: i encountered another claim recently where someone thought i was evil for hating random meetings of "diverse groups of people". my argument was something about diversity not being a necessaryily a condition that determines ssuccess on a project. and then they got all angry and called me a terrible person. | 11:38 |
| @kanzure | jrayhawk_: and i sort of assumed their claim of terribleness is related in some way to that other line of argumenting | 11:39 |
| @kanzure | *being a necessary condition | 11:39 |
| @kanzure | *success | 11:39 |
| @kanzure | (this was about writing standards and engineering specs) | 11:39 |
| jrayhawk_ | ah, cargo cultism | 11:40 |
| @kanzure | like, a bad spec is still bad even if your diversity metric is bumped way the hell up | 11:40 |
| @kanzure | how is that cargo cultism? | 11:40 |
| @kanzure | oh wait.. yeah it seems to fit exactly: "name derives from the apparent belief that various ritualistic acts will lead to a bestowing of material wealth" | 11:40 |
| @kanzure | and challenging that belief is probably as bad as trying to evangelize the opposite of whatever religious practices they (don't) partake in | 11:41 |
| @heath | .title http://compare.ebay.com/like/220926514624?var=lv<yp=AllFixedPriceItemTypes&var=sbar | 11:42 |
| yoleaux | Perkin Elmer SCIEX prOTOF 2000 MALDI-OTOF Proteomics Mass Spectrometer on eBay! | 11:42 |
| @kanzure | it's weird how you can't easily comment about how diversity is not a sufficient condition for success without being easily branded a terrible person | 11:42 |
| @heath | only 20,000USD | 11:42 |
| @kanzure | you can probably find a cheaper mass spec | 11:42 |
| @heath | er, ~30,000USD :| | 11:42 |
| @kanzure | most startups these days are opting to hire a person to build specialty lab equipment instead of buying new equipment | 11:43 |
| @kanzure | if a good mechanical engineer costs only $80k/year and can serve as the technician to fix all of your equipment problems, then it's way more cost effective to go for the warm body | 11:43 |
| @kanzure | (even if you factor in healthcare or other "fully loaded" expenses) | 11:44 |
| @kanzure | halcyon molecular did that for their electron microscopy work and dna miniscus stuff | 11:44 |
| @kanzure | idtdna does that for their dna sequencers (other than the ones they get through their "buy back" program) | 11:45 |
| @kanzure | transcriptic sorta kinda does that (though not really.. i think a lot of their equipment is off-the-shelf). | 11:45 |
| @kanzure | geneart definitely does their own synthesizers. i am pretty sure they are supposed to be giant 4x8 foot tables? haven't seen them yet. | 11:45 |
| cpopell | most good graduating meches I know are getting out of the field unfortunately | 11:46 |
| @kanzure | cambrian genomics is another obvious one | 11:46 |
| @kanzure | cpopell: do you know why? | 11:46 |
| cpopell | except for a couple specialties | 11:46 |
| cpopell | yeah, the pay | 11:46 |
| @kanzure | how bad is the pay? | 11:46 |
| cpopell | 60-70 starting if you're lucky. 20-30 higher for compsys and compsci, 15 higher for EE | 11:46 |
| cpopell | you're lucky if you get an offer of 72 with a masters | 11:47 |
| cpopell | it's also somewhat too 'focus' specific | 11:47 |
| @kanzure | cpopell: i did a survey on cs and it's a bit higher than you might think, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5802295 | 11:47 |
| klafka_ | kanzure i dont' think that's a good sampling frame | 11:47 |
| klafka_ | frankly | 11:47 |
| cpopell | yeah, I'm not using my own friends group for CS, lol | 11:47 |
| cpopell | because one of them had a starting 130 | 11:48 |
| klafka_ | is that total comp or base salary | 11:48 |
| @kanzure | i bet base. | 11:48 |
| cpopell | that was first year comp | 11:48 |
| cpopell | err | 11:48 |
| cpopell | first year base | 11:48 |
| cpopell | including signing | 11:48 |
| klafka_ | i could see that if they had good self projets and stuff in something like mobile or embedded | 11:49 |
| cpopell | but he's good enough that's he keeps getting max raises | 11:49 |
| cpopell | (Microsoft) | 11:49 |
| klafka_ | like at google or another big company | 11:49 |
| klafka_ | yeah | 11:49 |
| @kanzure | anyway, yeah i can see how mechanical people are getting screwed a bit | 11:49 |
| @kanzure | i mean, a lot of them were treated like cad monkeys | 11:49 |
| cpopell | aero is just as bad | 11:49 |
| @kanzure | and that's practically the same as being 3d modeling monkeys for movie studios, except you have to constrain your models to obey reality | 11:49 |
| cpopell | except there's even less 'lower tier' aero jobs | 11:49 |
| @ParahSail1n | you're talking about mechE's? | 11:50 |
| @kanzure | yes | 11:50 |
| cpopell | ParahSail1n: yeah | 11:50 |
| @ParahSail1n | yeah i just put a craigslist ad out for a mechE | 11:50 |
| cpopell | They found jobs, I'm not saying they didn't. They're just getting away from their field and gravitating to higher paying ones. | 11:50 |
| gradstudentbot | Actually, I didn't do that part, it was already here when I joined the lab. | 11:50 |
| @ParahSail1n | the field seems pretty desperate | 11:50 |
| cpopell | not enough depts are teaching controls theory or finite elements | 11:51 |
| @kanzure | i often hear EEs making extremely elitist comments against mechanical engineering folks. it's really crazy. | 11:51 |
| @kanzure | i bet we can troll jonathan cline into ranting about that | 11:52 |
| cpopell | we live in a wired paradigm | 11:52 |
| klafka_ | control theory seems to be more of an EE thing | 11:52 |
| cpopell | Ehhhh | 11:52 |
| @kanzure | klafka_: nah, consider mechatronic stuff | 11:52 |
| klafka_ | aah | 11:52 |
| cpopell | Yeah | 11:52 |
| cpopell | there's a lot of physical dynamics | 11:52 |
| @heath | nmz787: oligo synthesis, i'm a bit focused on it right now | 11:52 |
| cpopell | RPI actually taught the first Mechatronics class to my knowledge | 11:52 |
| @kanzure | "you mean i have to actually consider axial rotation?" | 11:52 |
| @heath | nmz787: might be a good time to collaborate | 11:53 |
| @kanzure | heath: http://diyhpl.us/wiki/synthesis.html | 11:53 |
| @heath | i'm aware | 11:53 |
| gradstudentbot | I don't have enough data to form a hypothesis. | 11:53 |
| @ParahSail1n | oh, but what you're saying is that mechE's are getting hired pretty easily? | 11:53 |
| @heath | "Chemical Syntehsis of Oligonucleotides" Behlke, Devor is helpful | 11:53 |
| @kanzure | heath: i meant http://diyhpl.us/wiki/dna-synthesis.html | 11:53 |
| cpopell | not in their own field, ParahSail1n | 11:54 |
| @kanzure | i have no information about how hard it is to get hired for mechanical engineering work | 11:54 |
| cpopell | and not with competitive salaries | 11:54 |
| @heath | if you check the server logs, you'll probably have seen a kindle fetch that page | 11:54 |
| @kanzure | heath: i want to work on a non-microfluidic dna synthesizer. | 11:54 |
| cpopell | hm | 11:55 |
| gradstudentbot | The fluorescent microscope is broken. | 11:55 |
| cpopell | right, chevrm was working on sequencing, not synthesizing | 11:55 |
| @heath | kanzure: samehere, it's the first logical step imho | 11:55 |
| * heath ignores mass spec for now | 11:57 | |
| @kanzure | okay, what's up with the fluorescent microscope today. the bot keeps complaining about it. is it stuck on a loop? | 11:58 |
| @kanzure | maybe i should actually fix the microscope. | 11:59 |
| gradstudentbot | If I break my arm, do I still have to present tomorrow? | 11:59 |
| @kanzure | yeah he sent the message like 3 times. | 11:59 |
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| streety | what does gradstudentbot do? | 13:53 |
| gradstudentbot | I don't know whether I am Turing dreaming that I am a machine, or a machine dreaming that I am Turing! | 13:53 |
| @kanzure | streety: he works in the ##hplusroadmap molecular biology lab | 13:57 |
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| streety | ##hplusroadmap has a molecular biology lab? | 13:57 |
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| @kanzure | yes.. i thought everyone knew this. | 13:59 |
| @kanzure | i sometimes fail to mention things | 13:59 |
| jrayhawk_ | 11:42 <@kanzure> it's weird how you can't easily comment about how diversity is not a sufficient condition for success without being easily branded a terrible person | 14:12 |
| jrayhawk_ | diversity is a chicken and egg problem that can be jumpstarted with deception | 14:14 |
| jrayhawk_ | including self-deception | 14:14 |
| jrayhawk_ | lots of social activism involves pretending things are different until renormalization happens | 14:15 |
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| @kanzure | jrayhawk_: that doesn't sound like a reliable way to do things | 14:32 |
| jrayhawk_ | the reliable ways are less wholesome | 14:39 |
| * heath recalls a paper where capping was unnecessary.. | 14:44 | |
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| @heath | it's one of these papers: https://gist.github.com/heath/b10812351b6b8125a41c | 14:47 |
| @heath | that's the one | 14:56 |
| @heath | A microfluidic oligonucleotide synthesizer - 2009.pdf | 14:56 |
| @heath | """Short oligonucleotides $15–25-nt in length can be synthesized without any capping step. Oligonucleotides >40 nt in length required a capping step to achieve high yield of full-length product.""" | 14:57 |
| @heath | "A low-cost, open-source DIY DNA Synthesizer Project" when and where did you present this, kanzure? | 14:59 |
| @heath | Looks like you were trying to obtain funding | 15:00 |
| ParahSail1n | it got funding from nsa | 15:00 |
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| @kanzure | ParahSail1n: that's not helping. padz already thinks i've been replaced by a fed for a completely unrelated reason. | 15:01 |
| @kanzure | heath: yeah, nathan and i were testing the waters. i can self-fund this sort of project but if i can raise money that's even better. (never use your own money on risky projects) | 15:02 |
| @kanzure | heath: btw i feel that a non-microfluidic synthesizer is much less risky and shouldn't require outside funding | 15:02 |
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| @kanzure | jrayhawk_: i can't tell if you are joking or not. less wholesome according to who? | 15:04 |
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| @kanzure | nicedice: hi | 15:44 |
| nicedice | hi | 15:45 |
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| ParahSail1n | paperbot, http://dx.doi.org/10.1038/nchem.1476 | 16:24 |
| paperbot | http://libgen.org/scimag4/10.1038/nchem.1476.pdf | 16:24 |
| @heath | adventures in synthetic biology went from comic to animation it seems: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1N6Wvz-6FNI&list=PL6ECA7768EF1B38C0 | 16:38 |
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| ParahSail1n | .wa specific heat of fusion of water * 1 kg in btu | 17:27 |
| yoleaux | ParahSail1n: Sorry, no result! | 17:27 |
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| ParahSail1n | these commercial ice making machines seem to get terrible coefficent of performance | 17:44 |
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| nmz787 | heath: cool, where are you located? | 18:23 |
| nmz787 | heath: and remind me of your background, so I can appropriately talk to you about this stuff | 18:23 |
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| @heath | nmz787: northern part of alabama currently | 18:39 |
| @heath | nmz787: where are you sir | 18:39 |
| @heath | my background is the internet :P | 18:40 |
| @heath | i'm a software developer | 18:40 |
| nmz787 | portland oregon | 18:41 |
| nmz787 | background is programming and biotech | 18:41 |
| nmz787 | and lots of selflearned electronics | 18:41 |
| nmz787 | but heading out, back in a few hours | 18:42 |
| @heath | k | 18:42 |
| @heath | i feel like most everything is self taught :) | 18:42 |
| @heath | ..in the sense that you have to listen/read and reason about whatever is presented to you, otherwise aren't taught | 18:53 |
| @kanzure | i'm not sure the distinction between formal/informal education matters in this context | 18:54 |
| @kanzure | doesn't seem to be a point worth discriminating on | 18:54 |
| @heath | the wiki article on oligo synth has improved a lot since ~2010! | 18:55 |
| cpopell | Of interest to this channel: DARPA STTR ST13B-001 is 'Advanced Tools for Mammalian Genome Engineering' | 19:03 |
| cpopell | 'OBJECTIVE: Improve the utility of Human Artificial Chromosomes (HACs) by developing new selectable metabolic markers for use in human cells, new high-fidelity methods for inserting DNA constructs of at least 50,000 base pairs (bp) in length into defined genomic loci, and new methodologies for facile intercellular genome transplantation.' | 19:03 |
| yashgaroth | darpa's supersoldier program coming along nicely | 19:04 |
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| @heath | paperbot: http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jo01348a035 | 19:08 |
| @heath | paperbot... | 19:08 |
| @heath | paperbot! | 19:09 |
| paperbot | http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1021%2Fjo01348a035%26pubId%3D40602996 | 19:09 |
| ParahSail1n | http://sci-hub.org/pdfcache/ee81468942f6b97aacdf568b806e5250.pdf | 19:09 |
| @kanzure | you have to wait for him sometimes | 19:17 |
| * heath feels that he might should purchase phosphodiesters | 19:21 | |
| ParahSail1n | we have any folks here who are students at big unis with good library subscriptions? | 19:23 |
| @heath | the only student i'm aware of is biostudent | 19:26 |
| @heath | mostly because his nick has "student" in it | 19:26 |
| @kanzure | ParahSail1n: let's not use people we know. be smart about it. | 19:26 |
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| @heath | kanzure: are you aware of a large company in python land similar to hashrocket? | 20:29 |
| * heath is finally disenchanted with node.js | 20:29 | |
| * heath is only aware of enthought | 20:30 | |
| @kanzure | enthought is on the wrong end of the spectrum from what you're looking for | 20:30 |
| @kanzure | continuum too | 20:33 |
| @kanzure | i mean the company named continuum it's not me just saying spectrum differently | 20:33 |
| @kanzure | thoughtbot is also not what you want | 20:36 |
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| delinquentme | paperbot, http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23731381 | 22:23 |
| paperbot | http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1089%2Fscd.2013.0088 | 22:23 |
| @kanzure | beeeeep | 22:24 |
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| delinquentme | seems like it doesnt work | 22:27 |
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| @heath | kanzure: ping | 22:30 |
| gradstudentbot | I think more research is required. | 22:30 |
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| --- Log closed Mon Jul 29 00:00:39 2013 | ||
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