2013-08-13.log

--- Log opened Tue Aug 13 00:00:40 2013
--- Day changed Tue Aug 13 2013
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@kanzurebeep boop07:48
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drazakkanzure: I dunno who this jewsin guy is but I like his post08:29
@kanzurehe sometimes shows up on irc but i haven't figured out his pattern08:31
@kanzurei think he was really into diybio a long time ago but then decided to get a job somewhere working in biotech08:31
@kanzurenaturally this kills the soul08:31
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drazakhardly08:32
drazakkanzure: didn't realize there was already a re: thread :/08:37
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@kanzuredrazak: it is permissible to have multiple replies to a single email, relax :P09:12
drazakyeah wasn't sure if it goes in the same page on the google group or what09:12
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@kanzuregoogle groups is all sorts of broken. i would suggest not using it.09:16
gradstudentbotSure, I'd love to switch into colorectal.09:16
@kanzurebtw the reason why there's a separate thread on google groups is because that other guy's (sebastian's) email client is misconfigured. google groups is incapable of parsing his headers.09:16
drazakkanzure: ahhh09:17
drazakI'm just using gmail in gmail :/09:18
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@kanzuresure.09:45
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nmz787can you have a PDF template that you shove plaintext into to make it look pretty?10:41
nmz787programmatically10:41
ParahSailinPDF can be generated algorithmically10:42
nmz787i'm thinking wiki template for DIY articles, and a button that converts the wiki template (filled in with good stuff) into a PDF to download10:42
drazakyeah10:42
drazakthat's a thing10:42
@kanzurei don't think a wiki template is a good idea, because wiki text is highly non-parseable10:43
@kanzureand if you want parseable wikis you end up with semantic mediawiki, which is just a revision control system for json on top of wikitext on top of mysql, which is all kinds of fucked up and wrong10:44
@kanzuremorally wrong, and technically wrong10:44
nmz787i don't believe that, there are format tags10:44
@kanzurehave you ever used semantic mediawiki?10:44
nmz787wikipedia is great.10:44
@kanzureit's awful man10:44
@kanzureit's hardly machine parseable10:44
drazakI really don't care if it's machine parseable10:44
ParahSailinwiki markup is parseable, just lots of syntax in it10:44
@kanzureeveryone who has ever written a wikipedia bot knows how bad wikipedia is10:44
@kanzurethe only way to parse wikitext is to run it through its htmlizer10:45
@kanzurewhy not just use an actual format though?10:45
ParahSailini think its a context-free grammar10:45
@kanzureand don't store it in a revision control system smashed on top of mysql10:45
@kanzureeither choose sql or version control, not both..10:45
nmz787a wiki seems like the right interface10:46
nmz787idk about implementation10:46
drazakkanzure: because people can edit a wiki really easily, it lets you link parts together easily, and it's familiar10:46
@kanzuredrazak: i don't want anything to do with software like mediawiki and i'll disown you10:46
nmz787otherwise, WYSIWYG interface with wiki-like history and talk page10:46
@kanzurei think ikiwiki is okay, but really those wikis are secretly just git10:46
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@kanzuretalk page is just another wiki page, you know10:46
gradstudentbotOh man, that's a great scrabble word. I got to write that down.10:47
@kanzurewiki-like history is just a poorly implemented version control system10:47
nmz787I think you're too concerned with implementation at this stage, this room can implement pretty much anything, the interface is the deal make or break-er10:47
@kanzureno, you're wrong. interfaces can be added later. if the implementation is wrong the data becomes useless.10:48
ParahSailininterface of what10:48
nmz787some ppl want a more standardized way to share DIY experiments10:48
drazakkanzure: nobody is going to use what you are suggesting man, people have a hard enough time doing science, making it harder by saying 'report it in a way you don't understand and can't interact with well" is stupid10:48
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ParahSailinnobody's doing any useful "DIY experiments" worthy of sharing10:48
ParahSailinmake that part happen first10:49
nmz787kanzure: I have to disagree with you, the interface is what people use10:49
nmz787i get what you mean about the backend10:49
drazakParahSailin: I think there are some people who are and only talking about it a little10:49
nmz787but you don't need a good backend if no one uses the front anyway10:49
nmz787the DIY gene gun was great10:50
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ParahSailinsomeone made a gene gun?10:52
chris_99didn't a gene gun start off as just a pellet gun10:53
drazakold wasn't it?10:53
drazaklike 2-3 years ago10:53
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nmz787http://www.museion.ku.dk/whats-on/exhibitions/biohacking-do-try-this-at-home/10:56
nmz787https://labitat.dk/wiki/Genegun10:56
nmz787http://hackteria.org/?p=197910:56
nmz787http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/diybio/r%C3%BCdiger-trojok-gene-gun.pdf10:57
ParahSailinlooks like they had no problem sharing their results11:02
nmz787using a wiki!!!11:03
nmz787oh no!11:03
nmz787and pdf11:03
nmz787paperbot: http://www.nature.com/ncomms/2013/130813/ncomms3307/full/ncomms3307.html11:04
paperbothttp://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1038%2Fncomms330711:04
nmz787third ezproxy time's the charm http://diyhpl.us/~nmz787/pdf/Repopulation_of_decellularized_mouse_heart_with_human_induced_pluripotent_stem_cell-derived_cardiovascular_progenitor_cells.pdf11:07
nmz787"Repopulation of decellularized mouse heart with human induced pluripotent stem cell-derived cardiovascular progenitor cells"11:07
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nmz787Noryokusha: hi! glad to see another chemist in here (I'm not one, drazak is I guess too)11:46
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@kanzurenmz787: just because there's an interface doesn't mean it's a good idea12:17
@kanzuredrazak: just because semantic mediawiki is easy to understand as a user does not mean it's a good idea.12:18
@kanzuredrazak: that's poor reasoning and you know it..12:18
nmz787i guess I meantI wanted to talk about the interface, not the backend, right now12:19
nmz787the backend will happen, but only if there's a need... the interface needs the backend, the people need the interface12:19
@kanzurewhat people? for doing what?12:21
ParahSailinso that all the thousands of people doing useful and interesting diy experiments but can't figure out how to upload a pdf to a mailing list or pastebin finally have a place to put it12:23
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nmz787right12:32
nmz787i bet you could even sell it to real biologists with money12:32
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@kanzurewhich biologists have money?12:41
ParahSailinjmil12:41
jmilsup dawg12:41
jmiloh lolz12:41
jmilo/ stieruridir whats up12:42
@kanzurei really don't think jmil would pay for a wiki template for lab journaling12:42
@kanzurebut even if he would... why would you want to make that?12:42
jmila lot of people use confluence kanzure. also openwetware is sufficient for most things12:43
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nmz787paperbot: http://cshprotocols.cshlp.org/content/2007/8/pdb.top11.full12:45
nmz787a lot of biologists need tools, i like making tools12:46
paperbothttp://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/53b07754fa8ee02f9d7abec3d1a1500d.txt12:48
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@kanzurenmz787: that wasn't what i asked13:02
nmz787"why would you want to make that?"13:03
nmz787"i like making tools"13:03
nmz787the journals already offer latex templates13:04
nmz787so makingsomething to ease data injection to the template doesn't seem terribly hard13:04
nmz787figuring out the right interface seems to be what would make or break something like this13:04
@kanzurebut if you like making tools, aren't there much better tools that you could spend your time on?13:05
@kanzurebut anyway, my other question was more important (which biologists have money?)13:05
@kanzurei don't think jmil has money, and he already said what he uses13:05
gradstudentbotDude, you contaminated my experiment.13:05
nmz787sure there are better tools, that's why I'm mainly concentrating on microfluidics and DNA synth... but that doesn't mean a paper writing tool wouldn't be helpful... I failed classes because I don't like writing papers13:06
nmz787I blame that more on data collection PITA though13:07
nmz787specifically this stupid spectrometer that had sudoku and tetris on it,  but no sane method for exporting data to USB drives13:07
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nmz787anyone read chinese in here?13:38
nmz787if so, what does it say inside the middle square with lines coming out of the sides? http://img04.taobaocdn.com/imgextra/i4/407779758/T2lAGAXlNbXXXXXXXX_!!407779758.jpg13:38
chris_99it's just a stepper motor driver isn't it, what's the circuit for?13:40
nmz787sure13:41
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chris_99got it13:45
chris_99LB1848MC - ON Semiconductor13:45
chris_99or at least that matches the pins13:45
nmz787hmm13:49
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nmz787it's slighlty cheaper than an allegro13:52
chris_99whatcha making13:53
nmz787oh it doesn't do any of the microstepping or mixed-decay stuff allegro does13:54
nmz787or maybe i'm mixing up the allegro i was looking at13:55
nmz787one had control, one was just some H bridges13:55
nmz787working on smell-o-vision13:55
nmz787and also thinking about pumps for microfluidics13:55
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chris_99smell-o-vision? as in generating arbitrary smells somehow13:56
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nmz787sort of13:57
nmz787using an array of 10 or 20 spices13:57
nmz787and mixing them13:57
nmz787bought some cheap linear steppers from aliexpress13:58
nmz787and some 1 inch wide lay-flat plastic tubing13:58
chris_99sounds cool13:58
chris_99you mean powered spices or some kind of fluid made from them13:58
nmz787which is ~2/3 inch diameter13:58
chris_99*powdered13:58
nmz787yeah powdered13:59
nmz787tubing is cheap, like $2 per 20 spice channels13:59
nmz787for several feet13:59
nmz787stppers were like $1 each13:59
chris_99so after you've mixed the spicers what do you do with them?13:59
chris_99*spices13:59
nmz787depending on the current I might be able to use shift registers to power the steppers14:00
nmz787so 1 spice per channel14:00
nmz787i'm thinking of stuffing cotton balls into the tubing, then adding the spice powder, and connecting this to an air manifold which is connected to an air compressor14:00
nmz787linear actuator downstream of cotton14:01
nmz787to pinch off air fow14:01
nmz787flow14:01
nmz787then thinking of a mixer manifold at the end of the line before blowing into someone's face14:01
chris_99so sort of spraying the powder out right?14:02
nmz787or maybe have all the tubes connected to a helmet rather than a mixer14:02
nmz787nah the cotton should prevent particulate14:02
chris_99hmm, would there be much smell though14:02
chris_99with the cotton14:02
nmz787sure14:02
nmz787open any jar of spices in your kitchen and take a sniff of the lid14:02
chris_99hmm true14:03
nmz787cotton willl adsorb some smell, but it will saturate14:03
chris_99sounds a fun project :)14:03
drazakwhat are you making14:04
ParahSailin驱芯片14:06
ParahSailin驱动芯片14:06
ParahSailinunicode doesnt show up well in my terminal14:07
@kanzureyou might not have fonts installed14:07
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ParahSailini use source code pro on my terminal14:08
ParahSailinim sure if i used a different font non-roman stuff might look better but then the roman stuff wouldnt look as nice14:08
ParahSailinλ just shows up as an x-ed out box though so maybe i should do something about it14:09
nmz787?14:10
nmz787unicode?14:10
nmz787someone can't read me?14:10
chris_99anyone ever used high amperage LiPo batteries before like 100ah14:11
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heathdid halcyon molecular already spend 20 million in funding?14:41
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heathand then fold?14:42
@kanzurei dunno what the actual status is, but the word on the street is that they folded14:43
@kanzurei dunno if they spent all of their money14:43
@kanzurethey had an equipment liquidation event at one point14:43
heathnmz787: re: failing classes, sounds like you could have used org-mode and auctex :)14:46
@kanzureauctex?14:47
heathhttps://www.gnu.org/software/auctex/14:48
heathquick way of writing latex14:48
@bkeroAnybody ever show you LyX?14:48
heathyeah14:48
heathi used kile before auctex14:49
nmz787orgmode?14:50
gradstudentbotI am busy researching.14:51
nmz787hah14:51
@kanzureorgmode is an emacs feature for todo addicts14:51
@kanzurei hear it is blissful14:51
nmz787hmm, i don't even know normal emacs14:52
* heath prefers emacs with evil-mode on by default14:53
@kanzurewell, you're supposed to be working on learning vim, aren't you?14:56
* kanzure looks sternly14:56
nmz787yessir15:02
@kanzuredid you try vimtutor?15:02
nmz787no i need to install it15:03
@kanzureit's just a command you type into your shell15:03
@kanzureno way15:03
@kanzurewhat distribution are you on?15:03
nmz787win715:03
nmz787:P15:03
nmz787its on gnusha tho15:03
@kanzuredid you install vim?15:03
nmz787i just checked15:03
nmz787no15:03
nmz787i was using vim on some ubuntu server the other day when vimdiff came up15:03
@kanzurei think it's even distributed with vim in cygwin if you're using cygwin in win715:03
nmz787thanks to mercurial15:03
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nmz787ahh, i'm using msysgit to have bash, and it seems to have installed vim too15:04
@kanzurei highly recommend cygwin over msysgit15:04
@kanzureor if your box can handle it, a virtual machine15:05
nmz787i think it uses cygwin15:05
nmz787yeah I have a few vms15:05
nmz787but they're slow15:05
nmz787(er15:05
nmz787)15:05
gradstudentbotYeah, I'm familiar with the technique. Sort of.15:05
nmz787"We compile Git as a pure MinGW program, though, i.e. a program without any link-dependencies on anything but standard Windows libraries. So unless you need to use any parts of Git that are still implemented only as shell or Perl scripts, you can get away with running plain git.exe."15:07
heathanyone want to make a market making bot with me?15:07
heathhttp://imgur.com/a/J8DQz15:07
nmz787kanzure: I don't actually use MSys (I didn't know it existed actually)15:07
heathclearly money to be had15:07
nmz787kanzure: msysgit was a one download installer to get git on here15:07
@kanzurenmz787: have you ever used cygwin?15:07
nmz787err15:07
nmz787bash15:07
nmz787i think i tried like 10 years ago15:08
nmz787then just used wine15:08
@kanzureimho cygwin tends to be more stable than wine15:08
@kanzurealso wine wasn't sold to redhat for $600 million15:08
nmz787kanzure: but is getting bash via cygwin a one-download and one-click to install on windows?15:09
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nmz787when I wanted bash on windows a year ago, msysgit seemed like the easiest solution15:09
nmz787i also can't stand cmd.exe so I use console2 and load bash immediately15:09
heathsurely you all can see the those price discrepancies15:10
@kanzureno, you will have to download http://cygwin.com/setup-x86.exe and then either click through the installer or setup.exe -q -n --site http://mirrors.kernel.org/sourceware/cygwin/ --root "C:\\temp\\cygwin" -l "C:\\temp\\cygwin"\packages -P wget,openssh,vim,git15:10
heaths/the//15:10
@kanzureso it's like 2 or 3 clicks15:10
@kanzurebackground: i've been writing python against cygwin all day for a paid gig15:10
gradstudentbotOh great, my paper got accepted with no revisions. Nice.15:10
nmz787hmm15:11
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ParahSailincygwin is now 64bit15:23
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nmz787jmil: any advice/tips/contacts to a paramedic/epidemiologist/bio b.s. friend that starts med school at UT Houston next week?15:24
nmz787s/to/for/15:24
ParahSailinrent's cheap in the third ward15:25
heathnobody? wow, alright15:25
@kanzureParahSailin: cygwin has both 32 and 64 bit builds. by default i'm still using 32 bit builds. i don't see a particular reason to jump to 64 bit builds.15:25
@kanzureheath: i have an uncle that's into trading software, but honestly there's a lot easier money doing other things (like programming)15:26
nmz787he's renting a condo15:26
nmz787already15:26
nmz787will bike to school, has a car with parking etc15:27
nmz787so the basics are covered15:27
nmz787but he doesn't really know anyone15:27
heathwrite a market making bot, make sure it doesn't trade with a loss, and let it run. i don't know what could be easier. the only issue with trucoin is they don't have an api endpoint, and one of the devs didn't even know why anyone would ever want one -_-15:27
nmz787says most of the other med students are total n00bs15:27
heathyou would have to write it using phantomjs or similar15:27
nmz787and most are super unliberal15:28
nmz787conservatinve15:28
nmz787conservative15:28
gradstudentbotSure, I've been spending a lot of time at a pub.... well, pubmed at least.15:28
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heathhttp://arxiv.org/abs/1112.007615:31
paperbothttp://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/Bandit%20Market%20Makers.pdf15:31
@kanzureheath: what are you trading against on trucoin? i don't get it.15:31
heathit's a metaexchange between mt.gox, btc-e, and bitstamp15:32
heaththe first rt meta-exchange15:32
heathand there's a 10USD price discrepancy between each exchange15:32
heathcirca 1015:32
ParahSailinso you're telling me there's a risk-free arbitrage in the most overheated currency speculation market?15:33
heathyou can trade between all three in under a minute and have your money secured in USD in under 415:34
heathif you do it manually...15:35
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Noryokushajust got home nmz78715:36
Noryokushaim not a polymer chemistry15:36
Noryokushamy masters will mostly be in organic and electrochemistry15:36
Noryokushabut i can learn!!15:36
NoryokushaI15:36
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nmz787hi Noryokusha15:50
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@kanzureheath: why is it so fast? bitcoin has a 15 minute delay. where's the site?15:53
heathtrucoinrt.com15:54
heathit's invite only atm15:54
@kanzurecan you get me an invite?15:54
heathyeah, sec15:54
heathshould have something coming your way soon15:55
@kanzureheath: do i have to have 3 accounts on each one?15:59
@kanzureerm, i mean, do i have to have accounts on each exchange?15:59
heathat least two of them15:59
heaththat process can take awhile15:59
@kanzuredo you have accounts on those exchanges?15:59
heathyes16:00
heathminus bitstamp16:00
@kanzurewhat's wrong with bitstamp?16:00
@kanzureoh i see16:00
nmz787Noryokusha: so you did chemistry in undergrad?16:02
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heathNoryokusha: ping16:20
heathnmz787: yes he did16:20
heathgradstudentbot: say something for Noryokusha16:21
gradstudentbotYeah, that's a really good question. I don't know, but I'll have to look into that.16:21
heathnmz787: there you go :)16:21
Noryokushasorry, was way for a bit16:23
Noryokushayes i did nmz78716:23
Noryokushait was a really general education though. no specialization.16:23
Noryokushai'm getting more specialized in organic chem and echem16:23
Noryokushaand soon computational work16:23
Noryokushahmm apparently you cant pm without registration?16:27
Noryokushai got a funny message16:27
heath/query nickserv register16:30
Noryokushathanks got it!16:33
nmz787cool16:38
nmz787bbl16:39
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@kanzurewhy is this able to offer 4% interest? https://perfectmoney.is/16:40
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@kanzurehong kong doesn't generally have high interest rates16:40
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ParahSail1nbitcoin ponzi scheme?16:41
heathdid anyone ever read pauling's college chemistry textbook?16:43
heathcame out in ~195016:43
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heathit's an extremely light read16:43
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@kanzureParahSail1n: seems unrelated to bitcoins16:45
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ParahSail1ni dont see 4% interest on that page16:45
@kanzurehttps://perfectmoney.is/fees.html16:45
@kanzure4% per year16:46
@kanzureUnit 1213, 12/F, Wing On Plaza, 62 Mody Road16:46
@kanzureTsim Sha Tsui East, Kowloon, Hong Kong16:46
ParahSail1nprobably because they charge so much to wire in and out16:47
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ParahSail1nand of course that referral link screams ponzi scheme16:48
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Noryokushatest graduatestudentbot16:54
Noryokushaerr16:54
Noryokushatest gradstudentbot16:54
gradstudentbotNope, that's not even remotely possible.16:54
@kanzureParahSail1n: yeah i think you're right16:56
ParahSail1nis there some reason you came upon that place?16:57
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@kanzurebtc-e17:16
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heathkanzure: have you used the phatomjs node module much?17:58
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nmz787heath: i haven't, is the 1950 edition /the/ edition to read?18:19
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heathnmz787: if /the/ = "the only", then yes :)18:21
heathoh, i'm wrong again18:24
heathsupposedly there's an "extensively revised and updated third edition"18:24
heath.title http://amzn.com/048665622518:24
yoleauxAmazon.com: General Chemistry (Dover Books on Chemistry) (9780486656229): Linus Pauling: Books18:24
gradstudentbotI'll need to pull an all-nighter.18:27
heathgradstudentbot: it isn't that hard18:28
gradstudentbotYeah, I couldn't repeat that.18:28
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ananniegradstudentbot: Red bull is your friend.18:34
gradstudentbotYou know, I hear you make more money being a garbage man.18:34
browniesgradstudentbot: get a real job!18:37
gradstudentbotYeah, it's the new grad student's fault.18:37
ananniegradstudentbot: How so?18:41
gradstudentbotYeah, but his project was so easy.18:41
heathNoryokusha: gradstudentbot is dissing on you18:42
gradstudentbotIf I was your endoplasmic reticulum, would you want me smooth or would you want me rough?18:42
heathgradstudentbot: haven't been on any dates lately, huh?18:43
gradstudentbotIf I break my arm, do I still have to present tomorrow?18:43
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panaxhttp://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2010/05/22/matt-groening-on-graduate-school/18:53
@kanzureheath: the phantomjs module in npm is wrong and broken. don't use it. phantomjs is a separate js engine. on the level of node. so don't combine the two.18:55
heathokay18:56
heathit's frustrating18:56
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@kanzureheath: yeah, don't use it19:09
@kanzureheath: just write normal javascript in phantomjs, and use require(), you can even use npm19:09
* heath wonders why https://github.com/ariya/phantomjs/ doesn't have language statistics above the list of files19:37
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jmilnmz787: advice about what?20:09
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cvillahi, can i use your wifi without dyings pls just moved in and am waiting on it here @kanzure20:54
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