| --- Log opened Wed May 07 00:00:44 2014 | ||
| --- Day changed Wed May 07 2014 | ||
| kanzure | aren't there 20 levels of top secret | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| kanzure | or is that knowledge top secret | 00:00 |
| kanzure | shit | 00:00 |
| fenn | congratulations, you are now a level 2 Mason | 00:01 |
| fenn | hold still while i sacrifice this goat over you | 00:01 |
| kanzure | i can't hold still without copious amounts of stimulants | 00:03 |
| kanzure | otherwise i'm worse than delinquentme | 00:03 |
| gradstudentbot | I think I have ebola. | 00:04 |
| kanzure | most likely | 00:04 |
| kanzure | fenn: is having shop space the main bottleneck? | 00:06 |
| kanzure | uh, not having | 00:06 |
| fenn | i dont know man | 00:07 |
| kanzure | well it has to be something | 00:07 |
| kanzure | rapid prototyping seems to give lots of advantages for making things that otherwise wouldn't be made | 00:08 |
| kanzure | and i don't mean just the 3d plastic goo kind | 00:08 |
| kanzure | also, did i scare away xentrac? | 00:09 |
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| fenn | i think i try to do too many things | 00:11 |
| fenn | but not having a place to work is definitely a problem | 00:11 |
| fenn | also not having people to work with is a problem | 00:12 |
| fenn | it's much easier to stay focused on a project when there is more than just yourself, or some words on a screen | 00:13 |
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| paperbot | RuntimeError: maximum recursion depth exceeded in cmp (file "/usr/lib/python2.7/_weakrefset.py", line 73, in __contains__) | 00:26 |
| entelechios | https://fart.academy/ | 00:56 |
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| xmj | how long do you think until the major health ministries notice that their recommended diets are crap, and scrap them? | 01:48 |
| jrayhawk | 60 years is the typical lag time. | 02:04 |
| jrayhawk | Have to wait for around two generations of doctors to die out. | 02:04 |
| jrayhawk | Which means we're seeing saturated fat come back now. | 02:06 |
| xmj | when do you recon doctors will recognize that diet cholesterol doesn't necessarily lead to serum cholesterol? | 02:13 |
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| nsh | in 2863535324324 seconds | 02:27 |
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| jrayhawk | probably about now, too | 02:44 |
| jrayhawk | well, hmm. I guess I don't know when that one started. | 02:44 |
| jrayhawk | even lipid hypothesists didn't really believe that one sixty years ago, so maybe that can just be traced back to time magazine | 02:45 |
| jrayhawk | which means we have to endure another thirty years of that shit | 02:46 |
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| xmj | meh | 03:24 |
| xmj | everytime i see a coworker send a message "got sick, caught a flu, fever, bla; feeding tea + pills" | 03:24 |
| xmj | I'm convinced this could be reduced to 10% or more if they just ... fixed their eating shit. | 03:24 |
| xmj | on another note, I just discovered http://lesswrong.com/lw/298/more_art_less_stink_taking_the_pu_out_of_pua/ | 03:25 |
| xmj | and find it hilarious. | 03:25 |
| ebowden | Oh, how Cabbage Patch Kids are born: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYRs3YMupg4&list=PL444097F0A7CDDF84 | 03:30 |
| ebowden | :D | 03:30 |
| jrayhawk | re: flu: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20219962 | 03:55 |
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| jrayhawk | asthma and influenza symptomology largely being defined by glutathione deficiency | 03:58 |
| jrayhawk | and vitamin d being a very good way to induce production | 03:58 |
| jrayhawk | http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12654482 and http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23770363 etc etc | 03:59 |
| paperbot | http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1016%2Fj.bbrc.2013.06.004 | 03:59 |
| jrayhawk | you're still pretty screwed when it comes to common colds, though | 04:01 |
| jrayhawk | that's nasal tissue permeability, which diet doesn't, AFAIK, modulate | 04:02 |
| jrayhawk | http://archotol.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=568658 there've been some interesting notes on supraphysiological supplementary notes on the subject | 04:10 |
| jrayhawk | s/notes on// | 04:11 |
| paperbot | http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1001%2Farchotol.1941.00660040843010 | 04:11 |
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| Qfwfq | paperbot: http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10590-011-9095-8 | 04:42 |
| paperbot | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/be628aab88afa24df71e3c0e8ab72282.txt | 04:42 |
| @_archels | Qfwfq: want? | 04:46 |
| @_archels | http://turingbirds.com/temp/art3A10.10072Fs10590-011-9095-8.pdf | 04:48 |
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| Qfwfq | _archels: <3 | 04:56 |
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| @_archels | http://www.theverge.com/2014/5/5/5684236/oculus-wants-to-build-a-billion-person-mmo-with-facebook | 05:32 |
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| xmj | uh okay | 06:05 |
| xmj | I doubt I want to play this MMO. | 06:05 |
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| @_archels | why not? | 06:12 |
| xmj | trying to un-facebook myself more and more | 06:18 |
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| xmj | closed platforms that use vendor-lockin are bad mmmkay | 06:19 |
| @_archels | yeah, I wonder how long we'll stick to the typical server/host and client paradigm | 06:20 |
| @_archels | connect to a particular server means being stuck inside the universe simulated by that server | 06:21 |
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| xmj | forever | 06:57 |
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| xmj | client-server vs mesh networks are a bit of a yin/yang thing. at one given point in time the prevailing paradigm is this, cue a few years forward there's a shift to that. | 06:58 |
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| @ParahSailin | wait, people are drinking raw oat flour? | 09:56 |
| kanzure | blah | 09:58 |
| @ParahSailin | i dont think thats safe | 09:59 |
| @ParahSailin | the actual soylent used maltodextrin which is not exactly the same thing as raw flour | 09:59 |
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| xmj | eurgh, flour sounds .. toxic | 10:21 |
| kanzure | fenn: i don't buy the "too many things" statement; that's the sort of thing that other people tell you because they want you to focus on their thing and they're being manipulative. | 10:25 |
| fenn | hm. "Selling yourself, which sounds almost noble [in context], is little more than manipulating other people to do what is good for you" | 10:26 |
| fenn | gah | 10:26 |
| kanzure | yes, well, that's what communication is for | 10:26 |
| fenn | where did you come from | 10:26 |
| kanzure | if you're not trying to manipulate their sensory inputs, then why are you even making sounds at them | 10:26 |
| fenn | i was reading that PUA without the PU article | 10:26 |
| fenn | kanzure: i think discovering ehlers-danlos has probably made more of a difference than i'm willing to admit | 10:27 |
| fenn | it's quite possible that i'm "fixed" and capable of doing whatever i want and just have my head stuck in the sand now | 10:28 |
| kanzure | "Pregnancy complications: increased pain, mild to moderate peripartum bleeding, cervical insufficiency, uterine tearing" this is clearly what you have | 10:29 |
| kanzure | other half of the problem is just making good picks | 10:33 |
| kanzure | project picks i mean | 10:33 |
| fenn | that's something i was complaining about the other day | 10:33 |
| kanzure | obviously you shouldn't pick something too overwhelmingly impossible | 10:33 |
| kanzure | and in fact, picking only things you're sure of is an okay strategy | 10:34 |
| fenn | given 2 projects, project A) benefits millions or billions of people, will be reproduced widely by others, propels humanity into the future, or project B) is a neat thing that would probably have no impact at all - I often find myself dreading project A and wanting to work on project B instead | 10:35 |
| kanzure | do you mean only those two descriptions, or all the externalities that they usually entail | 10:35 |
| fenn | like, the world probably doesn't need a waterproof spring loaded pill dispenser | 10:36 |
| kanzure | your goal has never been "be generally helpful to everyone on planet earth, because it is good to be helpful" | 10:36 |
| juri_ | really? thats my goal. i just resolve it a bit more in detail than that. | 10:37 |
| kanzure | your goal is selfish and stupid | 10:37 |
| juri_ | ok, so i think i know better than people what they need. | 10:37 |
| fenn | you probably do | 10:37 |
| juri_ | they need printable parts. | 10:37 |
| kanzure | juri_: if that was really your goal then you would be all over david pearce stuff | 10:37 |
| kanzure | and taken to the limit, there's a bunch of problems with that line of reasoning that makes it boring and pathetic | 10:38 |
| juri_ | kanzure: i haven't heard of his stuff, honestly. | 10:38 |
| fenn | juri_: don't worry, that line of reasoning didn't make sense | 10:38 |
| juri_ | i spend my days working on things to help others. no non-free software here. | 10:38 |
| kanzure | well if you genuinely believe in some sort of good maximization, then go read "david pearce" stuff. | 10:38 |
| kanzure | but i'll dislike you even more thoroughly | 10:38 |
| * juri_ tilts her head sideways. | 10:39 | |
| fenn | david pearce says "why suffer when we can experience gradations of happiness" | 10:39 |
| eudoxia | "why suffer when we have wireheading" | 10:39 |
| fenn | and various abolition of suffering mega projects | 10:39 |
| juri_ | yea, i don't buy that. i suffer because others are lazy. | 10:39 |
| fenn | norway seems to be doing alright | 10:39 |
| gradstudentbot | The paper got rejected. | 10:40 |
| juri_ | because i'm a hacker, i believe all people should be hackers, and hense, humanity should be saved (use raid6!). | 10:40 |
| kanzure | it's perfectly fine to work on a waterproof spring loaded pill dispenser. | 10:40 |
| juri_ | i'd rather see someone work on a waterproof spring loaded pill dispenser than play xbox games all day. | 10:40 |
| gradstudentbot | You know, I can just do consulting. | 10:40 |
| eudoxia | fenn: so, what projects have you considered that would proper humanity into the transhuman future | 10:40 |
| kanzure | fuck humanity, who cares if it propels "humanity" or only 10 billion people? | 10:41 |
| eudoxia | i'm just curious omg | 10:41 |
| eudoxia | you're talking to me too hard | 10:41 |
| kanzure | framing questions is really important | 10:42 |
| kanzure | you'll get really different answers | 10:42 |
| fenn | eudoxia: ontological assimilator, skdb, uh i guess that's about it | 10:42 |
| fenn | there's actually a whole spectrum of "meta" | 10:43 |
| eudoxia | fenn: i assumed skdb. what is an ontological assimilator? | 10:43 |
| fenn | eudoxia: skdb is a specific case of it | 10:43 |
| kanzure | figures out ontologies and makes it ontologically compatible with current ontology | 10:43 |
| fenn | right | 10:43 |
| fenn | anyway it's more aimed at web browsing than building stuff | 10:43 |
| fenn | it's basically "the semantic web" implemented with a sledgehammer | 10:43 |
| kanzure | skdb is the wrong design, or at least, the wrong shape of the hypothetical solution | 10:44 |
| fenn | so, in that awful tv show "gundam wing endless waltz" a 12 year old kid from a space colony builds an entire gundam mecha by himself with some robots and a computer code. this is glossed over in about 5 seconds of screen time but it stuck with me | 10:45 |
| gradstudentbot | Hah, look at figure 6. That's definitely a little weird. | 10:45 |
| fenn | i don't see commercial "PLM solutions" heading toward anything like that | 10:46 |
| kanzure | most PLMs assume a workforce of like 1000 engineers i think | 10:46 |
| fenn | god i hate that phrase | 10:46 |
| fenn | it's like "life insurance" or something | 10:46 |
| kanzure | ask dingo, he probably has the most direct experience with them (gm) | 10:46 |
| fenn | "let's design this object to be thrown in the trash" | 10:47 |
| fenn | i really don't care about PLM | 10:47 |
| fenn | i put it in the same category as Eclipse IDE | 10:48 |
| fenn | big ugly piece of shit software for big ugly piece of shit corporations | 10:48 |
| fenn | give me the REPL of engineering | 10:49 |
| eudoxia | SKDB is basically the only software that tries to tackle open manufacturing, so even if it turns out to be a bad idea it might lead the way or something | 10:49 |
| eudoxia | learning from mistakes etc. | 10:50 |
| fenn | i really dropped the ball, i guess it was 4 years ago, when thingiverse and openscad came out | 10:50 |
| kanzure | openscad is still wrong | 10:50 |
| fenn | thingiverse is still wrong too | 10:50 |
| kanzure | python-brlcad will be able to replace openscad as soon as i unbreak it | 10:50 |
| eudoxia | what was bad about openscad again, other than "its not BRLCAD" | 10:51 |
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| kanzure | openscad has a custom language that sucks | 10:51 |
| fenn | eudoxia: it's not turing complete | 10:51 |
| kanzure | plus it's coupled to a GUI | 10:51 |
| fenn | also, it sucks | 10:51 |
| kanzure | and it's STL-only | 10:51 |
| fenn | and it's wrong, in the mathematical sense | 10:51 |
| kanzure | there's zero reason for a completely custom langugae | 10:51 |
| kanzure | *language | 10:51 |
| eudoxia | what about implicitcad | 10:51 |
| fenn | vaporware (?) | 10:51 |
| kanzure | olah is still around | 10:52 |
| fenn | i havent checked in a while | 10:52 |
| kanzure | sheena ran into olah in a totally different way, it was amusing | 10:52 |
| fenn | i like the idea of implicitcad, and functional geometry in general, but i'd rather design for compatibility with an exchange format | 10:52 |
| @ParahSailin | wow, all this time i've just been coping with not being able to use up arrows in python repl when all i needed to do was install readline | 10:53 |
| fenn | right now the most common exchange format is STEP but it leaves a lot to be desired. it's not "source code" by any means | 10:53 |
| kanzure | i thought readline was a default? | 10:53 |
| kanzure | the default python repl is kinda boring anyway. try ipython. | 10:53 |
| fenn | seconding ipython | 10:53 |
| @ParahSailin | kanzure: haha tell default to centos | 10:54 |
| kanzure | stop using centos | 10:54 |
| @ParahSailin | yeah i wish | 10:54 |
| kanzure | you're voluntarily time traveling into the past | 10:54 |
| fenn | i mean STEP AP203/214 describes the geometry, but it fails completely for describing constraints and relationships between objects | 10:55 |
| fenn | same with IGES, which frankly is a lot easier to implement | 10:55 |
| fenn | also IGES is an open standard | 10:55 |
| @ParahSailin | so, on this system, i have my own libc binutils, gcc etc in my $HOME | 10:55 |
| fenn | maybe it makes sense to extend IGES with constraints and relationships | 10:56 |
| fenn | if your cad program can't parse the extensions, you still get the geometry of the default configuration | 10:56 |
| eudoxia | both syntaxes look horrible, what were people thinking | 10:57 |
| eudoxia | this really puts my XML bitching into perspective | 10:57 |
| kanzure | don't worry, there's stepxml for that | 10:58 |
| fenn | now architects are doing all kinds of "parametric" design where you start with some isosurface and run it through a bunch of filters and end up with something that looks like a stinkhorn mushroom | 10:58 |
| fenn | it would be good to be able to support that kind of workflow too | 10:58 |
| gradstudentbot | Do I have to go through the IRB for that? | 10:59 |
| eudoxia | that's basically functional geometry | 10:59 |
| fenn | kanzure: step-xml at least means we don't have to deal with "XPRESSO" or whatever | 10:59 |
| fenn | eudoxia: yeah but it's not source code, it's usually done with a breadboard GUI interface (like yahoo pipes, what is this called) | 11:00 |
| eudoxia | yes | 11:01 |
| fenn | ugh i never should have switched to 13.04 | 11:01 |
| fenn | .title http://www.grasshopper3d.com/photo/grasshopper-reading-ecotect <- example of what i mean | 11:03 |
| yoleaux | fenn: Sorry, that command (.title) crashed. | 11:03 |
| fenn | seems like if they just rotated everything 90 degrees it would work out a lot better | 11:04 |
| fenn | inputs at top, outputs at bottom | 11:04 |
| fenn | "i try to follow your picture to make your code but i have problem. | 11:05 |
| fenn | could you sharing your code? | 11:05 |
| fenn | fuck that | 11:05 |
| fenn | anyway 90% of the melty architecture is just arbitrary melty crap, and it's not optimized for any particular thing besides meltiness | 11:07 |
| kanzure | there's a few people still working on stepcode.org and they have made "express" less awful | 11:07 |
| kanzure | although not completely non-awful | 11:07 |
| fenn | the geometry should be a process of iterative optizimation through FEM or thermal analysis or whatever utility function you want | 11:07 |
| fenn | optimizing for manufacturing springs to mind | 11:08 |
| fenn | a big problem in making SKDB is trying to figure out where to put the boundary between it and the hypothetical CAD program that does all the stuff i want | 11:09 |
| gnusha | https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=3f37f9e4 Bryan Bishop: general project heuristics >> projects/heuristics.mdwn | 11:09 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/wiki/projects/heuristics/ | 11:09 |
| fenn | should i do some sed magic to make a link to the page instead of the filename? | 11:09 |
| kanzure | i dunno if sed would be enough | 11:10 |
| kanzure | i have often wanted a tool that i could point to a file on my file system and get back the correct url | 11:10 |
| fenn | sed/^/http:\/\/diyhpl.us\/wiki\// | 11:10 |
| kanzure | don't think that's enough | 11:10 |
| kanzure | what about whitespace | 11:10 |
| fenn | there is no whitespace | 11:10 |
| fenn | try yourself: git --name-only | 11:10 |
| fenn | er, git show --name-only --oneline | 11:11 |
| kanzure | okay then | 11:11 |
| fenn | merges will still give spurious results but whatever | 11:13 |
| kanzure | were you originally arguing to me that monolithic design was dumb? | 11:16 |
| kanzure | years ago | 11:16 |
| kanzure | it seems like something you would have been aware of, and something that i would have handwaved | 11:16 |
| gnusha | https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=18eef56f fenn: test edit 2 files >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/talk:diybio/faq.mdwn | 11:17 |
| kanzure | should just be /wiki | 11:18 |
| fenn | that was 2 files | 11:18 |
| kanzure | and the file extension is stripped | 11:18 |
| fenn | something borked | 11:18 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/wiki/talk:diybio/faq/ | 11:18 |
| dingo | kanzure's git is so good, his PR's need PR | 11:18 |
| kanzure | hierarchical pull requests sound cool | 11:19 |
| fenn | how do i call the script without having to actually push a commit | 11:19 |
| kanzure | setup the environment variables and call it? | 11:19 |
| fenn | i dont get where oldrev newrev come from and what is ${BASH_REMATCH[1]} | 11:20 |
| gradstudentbot | I don't know what to tell you, I thought I would have graduated by now. | 11:20 |
| fenn | hm i shouldnt be using ${BASH_REMATCH[1]} | 11:21 |
| kanzure | i believe jrayhawk wrote the original version of the script | 11:22 |
| fenn | yeah but he didnt intend to link to any arbitrary url | 11:22 |
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| fenn | maybe each wiki should have its own hook script | 11:22 |
| fenn | fwiw diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki seems to work | 11:23 |
| fenn | all the links are changed | 11:24 |
| delinquentme | Venter is humanizing piggy organs | 11:24 |
| fenn | ls /srv/www/diyhpl.us/ -l | 11:31 |
| fenn | blah blah ... wiki -> diyhpluswiki | 11:31 |
| gradstudentbot | I don't have enough data to form a hypothesis. | 11:31 |
| fenn | i wonder how it knows to use /wiki in the link urls | 11:32 |
| fenn | instead of /diyhpluswiki | 11:32 |
| fenn | delinquentme: have you read http://macroevolution.net/ | 11:33 |
| delinquentme | fenn, cant say I have | 11:33 |
| fenn | you should | 11:33 |
| delinquentme | I could use one of these pets | 11:33 |
| fenn | and if you think it's funny you should read it again | 11:33 |
| delinquentme | fenn, | 11:34 |
| delinquentme | what is this? | 11:34 |
| delinquentme | lol its like a satire website but for biotech ... but links to real articles? | 11:35 |
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| fenn | read the section on human origins | 11:36 |
| kanzure | is it reasonable for me to expect that an ultrasound transducer array should be able to function between 250 kHz and 10 MHz using the same components | 11:37 |
| fenn | not really | 11:38 |
| delinquentme | ehh not particularly interesting | 11:38 |
| kanzure | or, what is the thing that i should check on this. is it the ADCs? the piezo elements? | 11:38 |
| fenn | delinquentme: you are a dull boy | 11:38 |
| fenn | kanzure: the PZT ceramic transducers at least, work by resonance, and the resonance band is only a few MHz | 11:38 |
| fenn | but i am still learning about it | 11:39 |
| kanzure | "Sonography is effective for imaging soft tissues of the body. Superficial structures such as muscles, tendons, testes, breast, thyroid and parathyroid glands, and the neonatal brain are imaged at a higher frequency (7–18 MHz), which provides better axial and lateral resolution. Deeper structures such as liver and kidney are imaged at a lower frequency 1–6 MHz with lower axial and lateral resolution but greater penetration." | 11:39 |
| fenn | it might be possible to use different harmonics for different frequency ranges | 11:41 |
| kanzure | welp let's see if there are any variable frequency transducers on the market | 11:41 |
| fenn | say your natural frequency is 1MHz, then you could do 2MHz, 4MHz, 8MHz, etc | 11:41 |
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| fenn | or is it 2n+1 | 11:42 |
| fenn | .wik harmonic | 11:42 |
| yoleaux | "A harmonic of a wave is a component frequency of the signal that is an integer multiple of the fundamental frequency, i.e. if the fundamental frequency is f, the harmonics have frequencies 2f, 3f, 4f, . . ." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harmonic | 11:42 |
| fenn | okay i have no idea then | 11:43 |
| kanzure | "vibro-acoustography" how do these people live with themselves | 11:44 |
| fenn | i remember when i thought "time-domain reflectometry" was technobabble | 11:45 |
| fenn | .wik time-domain reflectometry | 11:45 |
| yoleaux | "Time-domain reflectometry or TDR is a measurement technique used to determine the characteristics of electrical lines by observing reflected waveforms.Time-domain transmissometry (TDT) is an analogous technique that measures the transmitted (rather than reflected) impulse. Together, they provide a powerful means of analysing electrical or …" — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time-domain_reflectometry | 11:45 |
| kanzure | .wik vibro-acoustography | 11:46 |
| yoleaux | kanzure: Sorry, I couldn't find article. | 11:46 |
| kanzure | yep.. | 11:46 |
| fenn | .wik ATM machine | 11:46 |
| yoleaux | "An automated teller machine or automatic teller machine (ATM) (American, Australian, Singaporean, Indian, and Hiberno-English), also known as an automated banking machine (ABM) (Canadian English), cash machine, cashpoint, cashline or hole in the wall (British, South African, and Sri Lankan English), is an electronic telecommunications …" — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATM_machine | 11:46 |
| fenn | hole in the wall? | 11:47 |
| fenn | "here shove your money in" | 11:47 |
| kanzure | "Modern transducers are broad bandwidth transducers that are designed to generate more than one frequency. For example, a L 5-12 MHz transducer can generate waves ranging in frequency from 5-12 MHz." | 11:47 |
| gradstudentbot | That's the control group, right? | 11:47 |
| kanzure | http://www.usra.ca/transducer.php | 11:47 |
| fenn | great. what is "modern" then | 11:48 |
| chris_99 | i bought some 2MHz transducers from China, havent got round to using them yet though | 11:48 |
| kanzure | maybe "broad bandwidth" is the right keyword | 11:48 |
| kanzure | chris_99: how much did they cost? | 11:48 |
| chris_99 | one sec i'll have a look | 11:48 |
| fenn | in that figure is 1MHz the natural frequency and 9 10 11MHz are harmonics? | 11:49 |
| fenn | and what is the black gaussian | 11:49 |
| gradstudentbot | The real reason I wanted to join this lab was because I love to clean glassware. | 11:49 |
| fenn | (is that even a gaussian?) | 11:49 |
| kanzure | that page is apparently supposed to be talking about using ultrasound for anesthesia | 11:50 |
| kanzure | .title http://www.usra.ca/general.php | 11:50 |
| yoleaux | Ultrasound for Regional Anesthesia | 11:50 |
| chris_99 | 2 sensor:2*32USD=64USD. the shipping cost is 33USD by DHL, the PayPal charge is 4.5USD. so the total is 101.5USD | 11:50 |
| kanzure | what's the connector type? | 11:51 |
| chris_99 | wirese | 11:51 |
| chris_99 | *wires | 11:51 |
| fenn | oh that's just using ultrasound to guide an injection to the nerve, not actually affecting the nerve with ultrasound | 11:51 |
| kanzure | darn | 11:51 |
| gradstudentbot | I am busy researching. | 11:52 |
| fenn | the difference between 3MHz and 12MHz is almost imperceptible | 11:54 |
| kanzure | how do i know they didn't fuck up the imaging, the transducer design, uploading the files, etc. | 11:54 |
| kanzure | they might not have even tested the transducer to see what frequency it was really using | 11:54 |
| fenn | yeah if it's a harmonic there will be natural frequency undertones and overtones | 11:55 |
| fenn | not exactly straightforward to measure the actual signal though | 11:55 |
| kanzure | hydrophones? | 11:55 |
| fenn | you can't just hook up a USB sound card and microphone | 11:55 |
| fenn | at MHz the frequency response of the microphone becomes important, and then you are in a chicken and egg situation | 11:56 |
| kanzure | how does all this fancypants equipment work without regular calibration/testing etc | 11:56 |
| kanzure | well, i don't mean just a generic microphone | 11:56 |
| kanzure | what about having a small water tank with hydrophone arrays | 11:56 |
| fenn | sure, but that is basically what your ultrasound is doing anyway | 11:57 |
| fenn | .d transducer | 11:57 |
| yoleaux | transducer (/tranzˈdjuːsə, trɑːnz-, -ns-/): n. A device that converts variations in a physical quantity, such as pressure or brightness, into an electrical signal, or vice versa — http://is.gd/tuEu9q | 11:57 |
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| gradstudentbot | Well, that paper was actually retracted. | 11:58 |
| kanzure | merging https://github.com/kanzure/python-brlcad/pull/28 | 11:58 |
| fenn | plug your headphones into the mic port and see | 11:58 |
| kanzure | huh? | 11:58 |
| kanzure | is this your argument against a hydrophone array | 11:58 |
| fenn | no, uh.. some things are optimized for input or output | 11:59 |
| fenn | an LED doesn't make the best solar panel, and vice versa, but they are capable of doing the other's job in a minimal sense | 11:59 |
| fenn | basically, i don't know enough about ultrasound | 11:59 |
| kanzure | are you trying to convince me of something? | 12:00 |
| kanzure | because i don't follow the conversation | 12:00 |
| * fenn backtraces | 12:00 | |
| fenn | "they might not have even tested the transducer to see what frequency it was really using" verifying the frequency you're outputting might be harder than it's worth | 12:01 |
| fenn | s/frequency/spectrum/ | 12:01 |
| kanzure | it would also be nice to verify how much energy you're delivering | 12:02 |
| fenn | calorimeter maybe | 12:02 |
| gradstudentbot | Are you published? | 12:03 |
| fenn | .wik schlieren photography | 12:03 |
| yoleaux | "Schlieren photography is a visual process that is used to photograph the flow of fluids of varying density. Invented by the German physicist August Toepler in 1864 to study supersonic motion, it is widely used in aeronautical engineering to photograph the flow of air around objects." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schlieren_photography | 12:03 |
| fenn | well, something like that | 12:03 |
| fenn | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadowgraph | 12:05 |
| fenn | i guess it's an interferogram | 12:06 |
| fenn | yo dawg i heard you like wave imaging... | 12:07 |
| kanzure | since when is august a german name | 12:07 |
| kanzure | .ety august | 12:07 |
| yoleaux | august (adj.): "1660s, from Latin augustus "venerable, majestic, magnificent, noble," probably originally "consecrated by the augurs, with favorable auguries" (see augur (n.)); or else "that which is increased" (see augment)." — http://etymonline.com/index.php?term=august | 12:07 |
| augur | dont see me | 12:08 |
| kanzure | shoo | 12:08 |
| fenn | anyway, pour a slab of clear jello, put your transducer up to the side of it, shine one half of a laser beam through it and the other half through still air, and recombine on a screen | 12:08 |
| fenn | you should be able to optically verify the wavelength of a standing wave at least | 12:10 |
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| kanzure | in the absence of multifrequency capabilities i think that just means "make lots of different transducers" | 12:21 |
| kanzure | if the transducers only cost $60 in the first place, then buying them seems more sane | 12:22 |
| kanzure | i looked at alibaba and only saw $600/each | 12:22 |
| fenn | $60 might only be a single element transducer (i guess you could chop it tho) | 12:23 |
| fenn | i wonder if anyone's used peratech quantum rubber as an ultrasound sensor | 12:23 |
| kanzure | single element looks ok for imaging | 12:24 |
| fenn | really? | 12:24 |
| fenn | you need at least two right? | 12:24 |
| kanzure | .title http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14682638 | 12:25 |
| yoleaux | Design of effic... [IEEE Trans Ultrason Ferroelectr Freq Control. 2003] | 12:25 |
| kanzure | argh why the cutoff | 12:26 |
| kanzure | "Design of efficient, broadband single-element (20-80 MHz) ultrasonic transducers for medical imaging applications." | 12:26 |
| fenn | paperbot: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14682638 | 12:26 |
| kanzure | "B-Mode: “B” stands for “brightness”. Move the transducer in A-Mode laterally, i.e., usually along the target surface, a series of A-Scan line will be acquired. If the moving is controlled well, and lateral distance of each move is recorded, then align all these A-scan lines will form a 2D mapping of the ultrasound beam scanned area." | 12:28 |
| kanzure | "Each A-Mode scan line can be modulated by brightness or, gray scale and an image is formed. The image is called B-Mode image. On B-Mode image, usually horizontal direction is the lateral distance, and vertical is depth. B-Mode image can be a sector, rectangular, or a circular shape depends on the transducer scan mode and applications. In the early days, scanning is performed by a single element transducer, driven by rotation or swing of a ... | 12:28 |
| kanzure | ... motor, and image has a sector shape. Phased array also most likely gives a sector shape image. Linear array normally usually generates a rectangle shape image. For intravascular or endoscope, where the transducer is in rotation, giving a circular image." | 12:28 |
| kanzure | obviously an array is more interesting but if i can't get a relevant range of frequencies out of it, what's the point | 12:29 |
| fenn | wow i thought b-mode would turn out to be more sublime | 12:29 |
| fenn | so a 1D pushbroom scan sucks because you can't align the different sweeps to each other in order to compute geometry (tomography), also it's a lot of manual scanning | 12:31 |
| fenn | so a linear array transducer normally has a lens array on it? | 12:33 |
| kanzure | maybe we can coerce chris_99 into doing a teardown | 12:33 |
| chris_99 | of what sorry? | 12:33 |
| fenn | i didnt think he had bought a linear array | 12:34 |
| chris_99 | nah mine are single transducers, if that's what your'e talking about | 12:34 |
| fenn | linear array with lenses is dumb anyway | 12:35 |
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| fenn | it's not like you're imaging things flying around at hundreds of miles per hour | 12:35 |
| fenn | "the baby is very active, he kicks like bruce lee!" | 12:35 |
| fenn | "ma'am, I have bad news. your baby is not human" | 12:36 |
| fenn | .wik campaniform sensilla | 12:37 |
| yoleaux | "Campaniform sensilla are mechanoreceptors found in insects. When the exoskeleton bends the resulting strain stimulates the sensilla. The displacement is transmitted down until it reaches the central nervous system. The term campaniform refers to the bell shape appearance of these sensory structures when viewed in cross section." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campaniform_sensilla | 12:37 |
| fenn | ok guys new plan, we farm cockroaches and wire their legs up to a USB soundcard | 12:41 |
| fenn | phased cockroach array imagining | 12:41 |
| chris_99 | that's just cruel :( | 12:42 |
| fenn | it's ok they grow back | 12:42 |
| fenn | i just like this page in general http://medix.marshall.edu/~zill/Projects2003.htm | 12:43 |
| fenn | it's very star trek | 12:44 |
| fenn | if you invert the images | 12:44 |
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| kanzure | now the pharmacy needs an "early release form", because i filled my prescriptions "late" last time (but no later than usual) | 13:03 |
| kanzure | why haven't i been able to do "early release" before when i, you know, actually needed it | 13:03 |
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| fenn | is it really that hard to get adderall? | 13:13 |
| kanzure | it's like pulling teeth | 13:15 |
| kanzure | having a prescription is not enough, it's also this time-space constraint satisfaction problem where you have to perfectly time when you fill each prescription, versus when you're going to get a new set of prescriptions, and when each of those prescriptions can be filled versus when they expire, versus the hours of operation of the pharmacy (thankfully i found a 24 hour one) | 13:16 |
| fenn | how long is the overlap period? or is there no overlap | 13:18 |
| kanzure | overlap is not allowed | 13:18 |
| * fenn mmbles methlab on a potato chip | 13:19 | |
| kanzure | if i had insurance that covered this prescription, then i would be eligible for a 90-day supply instead of 30-day supplies | 13:20 |
| fenn | that doesn't make any sense | 13:21 |
| fenn | why does it matter who pays for it | 13:21 |
| fenn | bbl | 13:22 |
| entelechios | i got that shit for free no questions asked | 13:24 |
| entelechios | for a year straight i was on it | 13:24 |
| entelechios | fuck the diminishing returns though | 13:24 |
| kanzure | http://www.reddit.com/r/ADHD/comments/1jcjxo/where_do_i_find_the_laws_and_regs_for_adderall_in/ | 13:24 |
| entelechios | theres better things to be feeding your head with | 13:24 |
| entelechios | i was getting the fun kind too | 13:25 |
| entelechios | 'oh yeah the sustained release doesnt work so well, i had the instant ones when i was a kid' doc didnt even know instant existed but wrote the script anyways | 13:25 |
| entelechios | adhd is a scam | 13:25 |
| kanzure | "I had to leave that practice after I erupted in the office bc they wouldn't change the date despite the last month having 31 days. I wasn't my nicest self that day..." | 13:25 |
| kanzure | entelechios: fuck off and die | 13:26 |
| entelechios | nah i think i'm good | 13:26 |
| entelechios | pretty sure i hope to live a happy healthy life on this world for as long as i can get away with it | 13:26 |
| kanzure | entelechios: it's most definitely not a scam. either show me evidence or banhammer. | 13:26 |
| entelechios | i think it's a scam because just about everyone i've ever known could probably benefit from the meds for it. i think it's a diagnosis due for becoming obsolete with further, more holistic views of how to treat the mind | 13:27 |
| kanzure | okay, so because you want holistic mind shit, you think that stimulants are a scam? | 13:27 |
| entelechios | nah i don't really think scam is the right word for it here. too many toes stepped on, what are you some kinda centipede | 13:28 |
| entelechios | i think that it's going to look funny to people in the future | 13:28 |
| kanzure | why should i not kickban you? i see almost no evidence of reasoning in anything you've written. | 13:28 |
| entelechios | go ahead you'll prove nothing yourself either | 13:28 |
| kanzure | huh? | 13:28 |
| kanzure | it's not about proving anything, it's about taking out the garbage | 13:29 |
| entelechios | you know what's not available in my country, along with many others that think adhd is a bogus diagnosis? adhd meds | 13:30 |
| kanzure | can you try saying something more substantial | 13:30 |
| entelechios | can only get them for narcoleptic spectrum disorders | 13:30 |
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| entelechios | i'm just saying that given a society of distractions keeping peoples attention pulled in many different directions that focus itself as a limited resource is being strained out through crude means | 13:32 |
| @kanzure | so you are arguing both (1) adhd diagnosis is a scam, and (2) stimulants are a scam, and your evidence for both is that stimulants are generally beneficial to anyone, therefore #1 and #2? | 13:32 |
| entelechios | i think it's a scam if i can just walk into a doctor and tell him i have trouble with focusing and that i'm going back to school so plz halp 'ok kid heres way more amphetamine than you will ever need' | 13:32 |
| @kanzure | how is that a scam? | 13:33 |
| entelechios | i think that the adhd diagnosis itself is the problem here | 13:33 |
| xmj | wow that is such a bullshit entelechios | 13:33 |
| entelechios | i'm pretty sure just about everyone i know in whatever circumstances on a daily basis isnt on top of their game | 13:33 |
| entelechios | at one point or another | 13:33 |
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| @kanzure | that's not adhd | 13:33 |
| xmj | entelechios: wake up, man. wake up. | 13:33 |
| @kanzure | xmj: wake up from what? | 13:33 |
| entelechios | i've been given the diagnosis myself through my life | 13:33 |
| xmj | kanzure: blaming ADHD for government regulations | 13:34 |
| xmj | that's just Bullshit. | 13:34 |
| @kanzure | entelechios: you seem to be incapable of responding to me in any meaningful way | 13:34 |
| entelechios | i think that giving speed to kids on a wide basis has been a mistake. so do a lot of medical professionals who are shying away from giving many kids speed | 13:35 |
| entelechios | i don't think the adhd diagnosis is entirely bogus but i do think that we could be at least trying to figure out better ways of treating it | 13:35 |
| @kanzure | you're changing your opinions every other message | 13:35 |
| @kanzure | you have also demonstrated that you don't know what adhd is | 13:37 |
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| entelechios | adhd is what emerges when you start to raise children on a steady diet of distraction and their genes aren't tuned enough to deal with that diet | 13:40 |
| @kanzure | yawn | 13:40 |
| @kanzure | you have been so extremely discredited that i don't know why you continue to speak | 13:40 |
| entelechios | because fuck off and die, that's why | 13:41 |
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| @kanzure | pls stay out | 13:41 |
| entelechios | what can i say you started it with the hostility | 13:41 |
| entelechios | with that exact same phrase | 13:41 |
| @kanzure | my hostility has been proven to be 100% fucking justified | 13:41 |
| @kanzure | i am able to use my memory of you and my ability to read your messages to draw conclusions | 13:41 |
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| * nsh licks entelechios in the eyeballs relentlessly | 13:54 | |
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| chris_99 | kanzure, what are you wanting to use ultrasound for? | 14:10 |
| @kanzure | "the psycho-neurotic institute for the very, very nervous" | 14:10 |
| @kanzure | chris_99: imaging and neuron stimulation | 14:10 |
| chris_99 | imagine neuron activity somehow? | 14:11 |
| chris_99 | *imaging | 14:11 |
| chris_99 | is that more precise than EEG | 14:12 |
| @_archels | unless I missed something, imaging can only resolve structural features and BOLD | 14:13 |
| @kanzure | nope not imaging neurons | 14:14 |
| chris_99 | oh ok | 14:14 |
| @kanzure | main point was neuron stimulation | 14:14 |
| @kanzure | but ultrasound imaging is pretty common and uses basically the same equipment | 14:14 |
| chris_99 | ok | 14:14 |
| @kanzure | and for some reason ultrasound imaging machines are $20-$50k | 14:14 |
| @kanzure | and i figure a functional imaging device could be constructed and sold for <$500 | 14:14 |
| @_archels | it makes sense: locate the nerve or region of interest with a structural scan, then direct your energy there | 14:14 |
| chris_99 | what kind of power do you need to stimulate | 14:15 |
| @kanzure | maybe 300 mW/cm^2 | 14:15 |
| @_archels | what's the point-spread function is what I'd like to know | 14:16 |
| @kanzure | at 250-750 kHz | 14:16 |
| @ParahSailin | augustus gloop is german | 14:17 |
| @kanzure | _archels: how would i find that or calculate that? | 14:17 |
| @_archels | I don't have an answer for that right now | 14:18 |
| @_archels | numerical simulation, perhaps | 14:18 |
| @kanzure | i did see a paper with a handful of "PSFs" the other day, actually | 14:19 |
| @kanzure | but it was not a neuroscience paper | 14:19 |
| @_archels | paperbot: http://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S0041-624X(08)00181-9 | 14:21 |
| paperbot | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/f391802da42b816a077871f75ca79dcb.txt | 14:21 |
| entelechios | ultrasonic neuromodulation is pretty neat | 14:22 |
| entelechios | has it gone beyond those people over at tylerlab a huge lot yet? | 14:22 |
| chris_99 | do you guys have any opions of the Scio, i've backed it in the hope it's not a) a scam b) complete crap | 14:23 |
| @_archels | In so doing, first we have identified key parameters of a PSF in | 14:23 |
| @_archels | ultrasound imaging: they are axial depths of lateral and elevational | 14:23 |
| @_archels | foci, the height and width of transducer elements in the ultrasound | 14:23 |
| @_archels | imaging system, and the speed of sound and frequency-dependent | 14:23 |
| @_archels | attenuation of the impulse response in soft tissue. | 14:23 |
| @kanzure | chris_99: strange that you would ask for opinions /after/ backing? | 14:24 |
| @_archels | paperbot: http://turingbirds.com/temp/1-s2.0-S0041624X08001819-main.pdf | 14:24 |
| paperbot | TypeError: unicode() argument 2 must be string, not None (file "/usr/local/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/requests/models.py", line 825, in text) | 14:24 |
| @_archels | so how does one obtain the axial depths of lateral and elevational foci? | 14:24 |
| @kanzure | wat | 14:24 |
| @kanzure | how did paperbot fail on that one | 14:25 |
| @_archels | er | 14:25 |
| chris_99 | kanzure, heh true, i'm still curious though | 14:25 |
| @_archels | perhaps there's unicode in the filename? | 14:25 |
| @ParahSailin | paperbot failed because it tried to lxml a pdf file | 14:25 |
| @kanzure | aha, thanks | 14:26 |
| @kanzure | but the error is requests/models.py | 14:27 |
| @ParahSailin | oh, then who knows | 14:27 |
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| @kanzure | secondmarket's bitcoin survey results http://www.bitcointrust.co/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Bitcoin-Survey_Final.png | 14:59 |
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| @_archels | .title http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24509078 | 15:09 |
| yoleaux | Optogenetic stimulation of the auditory pathway. [J Clin Invest. 2014] | 15:09 |
| @_archels | this is *fucking awesome* | 15:09 |
| @_archels | this is going to lead to clinical approval for optogenetics in postnatal humans | 15:10 |
| @kanzure | "ere, we used animal models to characterize optogenetic stimulation, which is the optical stimulation of neurons genetically engineered to express the light-gated ion channel channelrhodopsin-2 (ChR2). Optogenetic stimulation of spiral ganglion neurons (SGNs) activated the auditory pathway, as demonstrated by recordings of single neuron and neuronal population responses. Furthermore, optogenetic stimulation of SGNs restored auditory activity ... | 15:10 |
| @kanzure | ... in deaf mice. Approximation of the spatial spread of cochlear excitation by recording local field potentials (LFPs) in the inferior colliculus in response to suprathreshold optical, acoustic, and electrical stimuli indicated that optogenetic stimulation achieves better frequency resolution than monopolar electrical stimulation. Virus-mediated expression of a ChR2 variant with greater light sensitivity in SGNs reduced the amount of light ... | 15:11 |
| @kanzure | ... required for responses and allowed neuronal spiking following stimulation up to 60 Hz." | 15:11 |
| @kanzure | hmm, so this virus does genomic integration i guess? | 15:11 |
| @_archels | yeah, they used retroviruses | 15:11 |
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| fenn | bionic ears | 15:17 |
| fenn | wouldn't you need more than just a single LED to get any improvement over 16-channel electrode arrays? | 15:20 |
| fenn | like an OLED array or some kind of scanner | 15:20 |
| fenn | can they make DMDs that small? | 15:21 |
| @_archels | yeah, you'd need a 1D array | 15:21 |
| @_archels | DMD? | 15:21 |
| fenn | micro electromechanical mirror array (digital micromirror device) | 15:21 |
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| fenn | good for projecting a pattern of laser dots | 15:22 |
| @_archels | with the right kind of fibre, yeah | 15:24 |
| @_archels | that'd be nice; being able to insert a fully passive fibre insead of a LED array on a flexible substrate | 15:25 |
| fenn | i forgot about honeycomb fibers | 15:25 |
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| fenn | 126 AD: The Pantheon was rebuilt in Rome using a honeycomb structure to support its dome. | 15:37 |
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| delinquentme | is it a misnomer to refer to 'viral particles ' ? | 15:48 |
| @_archels | they're really waves | 15:49 |
| gradstudentbot | I need to send that abstract. | 15:50 |
| fenn | .gc "viral waves" | 15:54 |
| yoleaux | 5,800 (site), 5,560 (end), 208 (api) | 15:54 |
| fenn | .gc "viral particles" | 15:54 |
| yoleaux | 673,000 (site), 95,600 (api) | 15:54 |
| fenn | .gc "viral wave-particle duality" | 15:54 |
| yoleaux | 0 (site) | 15:54 |
| fenn | pick your poison | 15:54 |
| jrayhawk | fenn: FWIW I think optimally cgit should have an option to generate a list of links based on regexes when someone looks at a file | 15:59 |
| jrayhawk | but i am no good with C | 16:00 |
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| fenn | not sure what cgit has to do with it | 16:08 |
| fenn | user pushes to git, post-receive hook tells bot to say filename/url of file | 16:09 |
| fenn | the url points to the wiki | 16:09 |
| fenn | cgit comes in where? | 16:09 |
| fenn | i mean there should be a url to the diff too, but that's a separate issue | 16:10 |
| jrayhawk | cgit shows the actual changes, optionally linking to compilation products produced | 16:10 |
| jrayhawk | this would also add some symmetry since ikiwiki gladly links to cgit, but cgit does not normally reciprocate | 16:11 |
| fenn | that is a good point | 16:11 |
| gradstudentbot | So, I'll let you have my reagents when I'm done with my project. | 16:12 |
| delinquentme | Urine excretion of EGF approximated 1.5 micrograms/h or 25 ng/mg creatine. | 16:15 |
| delinquentme | https://www.goldbio.com/EGF-IGF-1-VEGF-C238.php?gclid=CJjLn6Ldmr4CFc5ffgodoEUAeA | 16:15 |
| fenn | delinquentme: you should call it "pink slime" instead of "ECM" | 16:15 |
| delinquentme | in a 3rd world country you could dispose of piss and monetize it. | 16:16 |
| delinquentme | and the gates foundation would be interested | 16:16 |
| delinquentme | fenn, whys that | 16:16 |
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| fenn | it's more visceral, people would immediately grasp the nature of your product | 16:16 |
| fenn | also, ghostbusters | 16:16 |
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| fenn | .wik pink slime | 16:17 |
| yoleaux | ""Pink slime" is the common name for a controversial beef product. The names used in the meat industry are "lean finely textured beef," abbreviated LFTB, and "boneless lean beef trimmings," or BLBT." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pink_slime | 16:17 |
| delinquentme | fenn, you're pretty good for not having a marketing degree | 16:18 |
| fenn | i've been studying social artistry. | 16:18 |
| @kanzure | marketing degrees are not necessary | 16:18 |
| * fenn preens expertly | 16:19 | |
| fenn | in 2012 "The three plants produced a total of about 900,000 pounds of the product per day." raspberry frozen yogurt for everyone! | 16:21 |
| @kanzure | .ety preen | 16:21 |
| yoleaux | preen (v.): ""to trim, to dress up," late 14c., perhaps a variation of Middle English proynen, proinen "trim the feather with the beak" (see prune (v.)); or perhaps from Old French poroindre "anoint before," and Old French proignier "round off, prune." …" — http://etymonline.com/index.php?term=preen | 16:21 |
| fenn | .d preen | 16:21 |
| yoleaux | preen (/priːn/): v. (Of a bird) tidy and clean its feathers with its beak: reed buntings ⁓ed at the pool’s edge — http://is.gd/yfKzmh | 16:21 |
| fenn | aw how can they not have the image of pink slime on wikipedia | 16:22 |
| @kanzure | cultural suppression | 16:24 |
| fenn | i guess i don't see what the big deal is, ammonium hydroxide isn't that bad | 16:24 |
| fenn | It has been mockingly termed "soylent pink." image submitted by user Tyler Durden: com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/2012/03/pink-slime | 16:26 |
| delinquentme | ok you two think tanks. Why would the above mentioned operation be a bad business model. | 16:26 |
| @kanzure | fuck off | 16:27 |
| fenn | recycling EGF for ... ? | 16:27 |
| delinquentme | fenn, to sell | 16:28 |
| fenn | "Serum concentration of VEGF is high in bronchial asthma and diabetes mellitus." | 16:28 |
| delinquentme | kanzure, whats the issue? | 16:28 |
| delinquentme | https://www.goldbio.com/EGF-IGF-1-VEGF-C238.php?gclid=CJjLn6Ldmr4CFc5ffgodoEUAeA | 16:28 |
| fenn | he's just tired of you coming here and asking for business plans or whatever | 16:28 |
| delinquentme | $50 bucks for a 3rd world country is substantial ... and thats just one protein . Claims are 1.5um / hr by typical healthy humans | 16:29 |
| delinquentme | stupid to be upset over that. | 16:29 |
| fenn | those are for molecular biology research, not injecting into poor people | 16:29 |
| fenn | most of the cost is the purity and science markup | 16:29 |
| fenn | "Growth Factors & Stem Cell Reagents" | 16:30 |
| delinquentme | So any efficiency created would be in the refinement | 16:30 |
| delinquentme | kanzure, i wasn't being facetious either | 16:30 |
| fenn | they probably need to be frozen constantly | 16:30 |
| fenn | i just dont get why you would want EGF in the first place | 16:31 |
| fenn | "someone's selling it" doesn't count | 16:31 |
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| delinquentme | sure. but its a possible indication of a market | 16:31 |
| fenn | no it's not | 16:31 |
| fenn | there are 90 zillion compounds in the sigma catalog, most of which have no market opportunity outside of the sigma catalog | 16:32 |
| @kanzure | 90 zillion is accurate | 16:32 |
| fenn | .wa 90 zillion in metric | 16:32 |
| delinquentme | noted. | 16:32 |
| yoleaux | fenn: Sorry, no result! | 16:32 |
| delinquentme | thanks fenn | 16:32 |
| gradstudentbot | Still haven't cured cancer. | 16:34 |
| fenn | is there an open source wolfram alpha clone? | 16:34 |
| fenn | sage is pretty good, but it doesn't have the database or the natural language interface | 16:35 |
| @kanzure | nsh: seems like your department | 16:35 |
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| nsh | not aware of one | 16:36 |
| nsh | it's main value is pretty proprietary / difficult to replicate | 16:36 |
| nsh | *its | 16:36 |
| fenn | why is it proprietary? the idea has been around forever | 16:36 |
| fenn | its main value is lots of pedantic data assimilation | 16:37 |
| fenn | it doesn't even do a good job at understanding natural language | 16:37 |
| fenn | .wa accelerate at 1 gravity for 1 second distance | 16:38 |
| yoleaux | fenn: Sorry, no result! | 16:38 |
| fenn | it doesn't know that "accelerate" == "acceleration" | 16:38 |
| fenn | .wa acceleration 1 gravity for 1 second distance | 16:39 |
| yoleaux | fenn: Sorry, no result! | 16:39 |
| fenn | .wa acceleration 1 gravity for 1 second what is the distance | 16:39 |
| @kanzure | i thought that after the 60s everyone agreed to stop caring about natural language stuff | 16:39 |
| yoleaux | fenn: Sorry, no result! | 16:39 |
| fenn | hm, mosasaur figured it out eventually | 16:39 |
| fenn | the .wik command is pretty good for most "what is" type queries | 16:42 |
| fenn | .wik wet noodle | 16:42 |
| yoleaux | "A wet noodle is a strip or string of pasta that has become soft and flaccid after being soaked in water. The term is used in a number of non-literal ways, generally based on the visual image of spaghetti noodles that are long and straight when dry, including:" — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wet_noodle | 16:42 |
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| fenn | .d wet noodle | 16:44 |
| yoleaux | Sorry, I couldn't find a definition for 'wet noodle'. | 16:44 |
| fenn | .wa what is a wet noodle | 16:45 |
| yoleaux | fenn: Sorry, no result! | 16:45 |
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| fenn | anyway, freebase has a ton of stuff in it | 16:46 |
| @kanzure | yawn | 16:46 |
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| fenn | ok mister smartypants, find the etymology of "wet noodle" without using a search engine | 16:47 |
| @kanzure | why am i doing that | 16:47 |
| @kanzure | i thought i was trying to fund enough mental capacity to look at DSPs | 16:48 |
| gradstudentbot | Let's pour a bunch of chemlights into a spinner flask and claim it's luminescent e.coli. | 16:48 |
| fenn | fine, automatically generate a list of DSP's sorted by their relevant characteristics | 16:48 |
| @kanzure | that wont be done by natural language processing | 16:49 |
| @kanzure | because the data isn't there | 16:49 |
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| @kanzure | it's just in unreadable pdfs | 16:49 |
| fenn | the data is too there, it's just in a natural language format | 16:49 |
| @kanzure | well that's useless to me | 16:49 |
| @kanzure | who cares? | 16:50 |
| fenn | because ... | 16:50 |
| fenn | do i really have to explain this | 16:50 |
| fenn | because if you had a natural language parser, it would parse the datasheets into a structured data format that you could sort | 16:50 |
| @kanzure | i haven't seen any evidence of that | 16:50 |
| fenn | huh? | 16:50 |
| @kanzure | so far it seems to require humans transcribing data manually | 16:50 |
| fenn | no, that's the stupid way to do it | 16:51 |
| delinquentme | Ive read some research that suggests heads of operations significantly define the character of an organization | 16:51 |
| fenn | that's just mechanical turk | 16:51 |
| fenn | besides, the structure of datasheets is pretty regular | 16:52 |
| @kanzure | sounds like you're the smartypands | 16:52 |
| @kanzure | why should i want this in natural language form anyway, FUCK that | 16:53 |
| @kanzure | just give me some json files and commands | 16:53 |
| cpopell`working | Man, envision the future of the human race: instead of a boot heel stomping on a face forever, it's people transcribing unstructured data to structured because it's cheaper than automating parts of it, forever | 16:53 |
| cpopell`working | (not really, but damn what a depressing thought) | 16:53 |
| fenn | what i'm saying is, it's cheaper to teach a computer to do it | 16:54 |
| fenn | actually, it's cheaper to teach a computer to teach a human to teach a computer how to do it, but that doesn't sound as good | 16:54 |
| @kanzure | and all of this is so that i don't have to go to ti.com and lookup that file i am supposed to be reading? | 16:55 |
| fenn | right | 16:55 |
| @kanzure | yak shaving | 16:55 |
| fenn | you say, "yoleaux, what DSP should i use for ultrasound" | 16:56 |
| fenn | yoleaux says "not enough parameters defined" | 16:56 |
| @kanzure | that's a bad question | 16:56 |
| @kanzure | no, even with parameters | 16:56 |
| @kanzure | sigh | 16:56 |
| @kanzure | you should konw that | 16:56 |
| @kanzure | *know | 16:56 |
| fenn | why is it a bad question? | 16:56 |
| @kanzure | because it's entirely possible to do ultrasound things without DSPs | 16:57 |
| @kanzure | the two things are very unrelated | 16:57 |
| fenn | i say, "yoleaux, what DSP is capable of inverting a 256x256 matrix in 10 milliseconds" | 16:57 |
| fenn | or whatever | 16:57 |
| @kanzure | still underdefined | 16:57 |
| fenn | and it looks at the datasheets, does some unit conversions, and tells me a list of DSPs | 16:57 |
| @kanzure | why are you so interested in natural language | 16:58 |
| fenn | because there's so much of it out there | 16:58 |
| @kanzure | well, that's their fault | 16:58 |
| fenn | but that doesn't change anything | 16:58 |
| @kanzure | you don't have to suffer that | 16:58 |
| fenn | but i do suffer from it | 16:58 |
| @kanzure | kill them | 16:58 |
| fenn | that doesn't solve the problem | 16:58 |
| @kanzure | just because they exist doesn't mean that it's worth your time to do any of that | 16:58 |
| @kanzure | or to even bother with it | 16:59 |
| fenn | how else is data ever going to get into a structured format? | 16:59 |
| fenn | preferably in the ontology i want it in | 16:59 |
| @kanzure | you mean other than "fenn writing the ultimate natural language ai thingy"? well, for one, people can stop being morons and not publish datasheets as pdfs. | 16:59 |
| fenn | but what about all the old pdfs | 17:00 |
| @kanzure | ~/archive and forget | 17:00 |
| fenn | that's as good as deleting them | 17:00 |
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| fenn | i'm not arguing for anything more complex than OCR | 17:00 |
| @kanzure | well for one you invoked "replicate everything about wolfram alpha" | 17:01 |
| @kanzure | which is much more than OCR | 17:01 |
| fenn | i didn't say it was ocr | 17:01 |
| fenn | ok OCR is a classifier that has 100 or so categories of targets (the characters and punctuation) | 17:02 |
| @kanzure | that doesn't seem to be relevant | 17:02 |
| fenn | it can assign probabilities to various hypotheses about which character it is, and add to the probability based on context | 17:03 |
| @kanzure | i am trying to convince you that yak shvaing is yak shvaing | 17:03 |
| @kanzure | *shaving | 17:03 |
| fenn | well why should i care about an ultrasound machine more than an ontological assimilator | 17:03 |
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| @kanzure | why should you care about anything at all? :) | 17:04 |
| fenn | hitler | 17:04 |
| * fenn watches tv | 17:04 | |
| gradstudentbot | Hey, I got 100% yield! Oh wait, no. | 17:05 |
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| @kanzure | and now they get to keep my prescriptions | 18:33 |
| @kanzure | this has some interesting numbers http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-05-06/alibaba-files-ipo | 18:56 |
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| @kanzure | "Fuck Pulte homes made out of shoddy lumber and crap drywall for $20 a sq ft. I'll buy a kit home from Alibaba for $2.50 a sq ft and put it together myself. Is crap Chinese steel worse than shit fiberboard? Seriously go to Alibaba and check out the steel frame kit homes. Makes the 1950s prefabs look like rejects from a trailer park." | 19:01 |
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| @kanzure | the other thread is about stockpiling bacteria cultures "because of the coming collapse/apocalypse", hah | 19:12 |
| @kanzure | i guess that's a nice take on the prepper idea | 19:12 |
| * nsh collects heirloom tweed | 19:22 | |
| @kanzure | .d tweed | 19:23 |
| yoleaux | kanzure: Sorry, that command (.d) crashed. | 19:23 |
| @kanzure | alright | 19:23 |
| @kanzure | so much botfail | 19:23 |
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| nsh | .w tweed | 19:39 |
| yoleaux | nsh: Sorry, that command (.w) crashed. | 19:39 |
| nsh | software is hard | 19:39 |
| @kanzure | i don't understand | 19:40 |
| nmz787_i | after I use subprocess.popen and redirect stdout to PIPE... from the new process how do I end the PIPE connection? | 19:42 |
| nmz787_i | since I have a listener at the initiating side of the PIPE, and I can control what the new process prints... I'm thinking I send some special string that the listener hears and closes the connection | 19:43 |
| @ParahSailin | exit? | 19:47 |
| gradstudentbot | I'll be at the microscope. | 19:51 |
| nmz787_i | I don't want to exit the new process, just redirect stdout from the PIPE to elsewhere | 19:51 |
| @ParahSailin | you want to close the parent's fd? | 19:56 |
| fenn | "The biggest fear US retailers should have is consumers seeing what items really cost. Alibaba can upset the entire chain of US commerce once people realize that big box retail adds 500% markup just for putting something on a shelf." | 20:06 |
| fenn | i've seen a lot of chinese sellers popping up on Amazon, but their prices are nowhere near what's listed on Alibaba, why? | 20:07 |
| @kanzure | alibaba probably has intense competition? | 20:08 |
| @kanzure | i mean, listing on alibaba exposes you to intense competition? | 20:08 |
| fenn | well they haven't done a good job of making a "walled garden" or whatever vendor lockin strategy facebook uses | 20:08 |
| fenn | i get emails all the time from chinese factories, dunno if they're from alibaba or skdb documentation crawlers though | 20:09 |
| @kanzure | according to these infonumber pixel graphical artifacts, the majority of alibaba sales are not from the interesting industrial byproducts | 20:09 |
| @kanzure | that china spam is just being sent to everyone i think | 20:09 |
| @kanzure | i started to collect it a while back | 20:09 |
| fenn | what is the majority of sales? | 20:09 |
| @kanzure | according to that last zerohedge.com link, it's just typical commerce stuff | 20:10 |
| fenn | SAINTBOND scales and geotextile, shipped to you! | 20:10 |
| @kanzure | "fashion" "food" "consumer electronics" | 20:10 |
| @kanzure | "books" | 20:10 |
| fenn | food? | 20:10 |
| fenn | huh? where do you buy food from china? | 20:10 |
| @kanzure | http://www.alibaba.com/Products | 20:10 |
| @kanzure | "Food & Beverage(1518531)" http://www.alibaba.com/Food-Beverage_p2 | 20:11 |
| @kanzure | heh http://www.alibaba.com/Instant-Food_pid216 | 20:11 |
| @kanzure | "Jamila Chicken Soup Bouillon Cube,10g spices" "10 Metric Tons (Min. Order)" | 20:12 |
| @kanzure | man i love this site | 20:12 |
| gradstudentbot | That's definitely not repeatable. | 20:12 |
| fenn | what's the price per ton of chicken bouillon? | 20:12 |
| @kanzure | hrmm http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/chicken-bouillon-cube-msg-free_444747123.html?s=p | 20:12 |
| @kanzure | well. | 20:12 |
| @kanzure | "10g/piece, 60 pieces/box, 24 boxes/carton, 14.4 kg/carton" | 20:13 |
| fenn | 30USD for 14.4kg? | 20:13 |
| fenn | that's ... extremely cheap | 20:13 |
| fenn | can you actually buy things in reasonable quantities tho? like one carton | 20:13 |
| fenn | i can never figure it out because they are trying to size me up and we have to do this stupid dance | 20:14 |
| fenn | just give me a fucking "buy it now" button | 20:14 |
| @kanzure | nope you have to sign up to qq first | 20:14 |
| @kanzure | and then learn chinese emoticon customs | 20:14 |
| @kanzure | or just bug ParahSailin | 20:14 |
| fenn | somehow they manage to ship single items for less than a dollar for ebay | 20:15 |
| fenn | i don't get why alibaba is so hard to use | 20:15 |
| @ParahSailin | you want taobao if you want to buy one | 20:16 |
| @ParahSailin | alibaba is for the container load | 20:16 |
| fenn | but i usually want weird scientific/industrial shit that is only on alibaba | 20:16 |
| @kanzure | i wonder if there's any money to be made in making pretty interfaces to alibaba ordering | 20:16 |
| fenn | i don't want a pretty interface, i want a 'buy it now' button | 20:17 |
| fenn | and a price would be good too | 20:17 |
| @kanzure | that's called a pretty interface | 20:17 |
| @kanzure | the button, i mean | 20:17 |
| fenn | that's not a pretty interface, i don't care if it's a button or what, i just want a price and the ability to buy the product | 20:17 |
| fenn | it could be an API call for all i care | 20:17 |
| @kanzure | yeah, i think an automatic price thing could be doable based on just looking at the page and estimating based on their peer listings | 20:17 |
| fenn | i don't want to have to talk to "sharon" or "elaine" or whatever crap name they made up | 20:17 |
| @kanzure | thankfully it's not "call to discuss price" | 20:18 |
| @kanzure | it's slightly less terrible | 20:18 |
| @kanzure | overall a good trend! | 20:18 |
| @ParahSailin | thats vaguely racist | 20:18 |
| @kanzure | no, i don't want to phone ANYONE | 20:18 |
| fenn | it's vaguely racist to pretend your name is "sharon" when you're a chinese factory worker | 20:18 |
| @kanzure | fun fact, but nobody ever calls me, despite my phone number being tacked on to the end of every email ever | 20:18 |
| @kanzure | it's actually really nice | 20:18 |
| @kanzure | i wouldn't mind talking to any of you guys, but you don't even need to ring me | 20:19 |
| @kanzure | http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/American-Piezoelectric-crystals_898394445.html?s=p | 20:19 |
| @ParahSailin | pretty much everyone in china picked an english name in high school | 20:19 |
| @kanzure | "American Piezoelectric crystals" | 20:19 |
| @kanzure | ParahSailin: why are they not fond of name disambiguation? | 20:20 |
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| @kanzure | "The piezoelectric power generating sheet has a high electromechanical coupling coefficient,the LED lamp can be lit during normal pressing under conditions." | 20:20 |
| @kanzure | "under conditions" | 20:20 |
| @ParahSailin | the english names tend to be a couple generations out of fashion, but theyre still names they identify by | 20:20 |
| fenn | ok, so it's a name they go by, i still don't want to have to tell them my life story just to order a kilogram of nickel powder | 20:21 |
| @ParahSailin | anything specific you want from china within the next two weeks? | 20:21 |
| fenn | i think they wanted something like $100 to ship me a kilogram | 20:22 |
| @ParahSailin | its not really worth their time to sell a single unit of some small item | 20:22 |
| eudoxia | ParahSailin: i always though the asian guys we worked with were actually called ewan and kevin or something | 20:22 |
| fenn | just for shipping | 20:22 |
| @ParahSailin | eudoxia: one of the coolest english names ive seen was a hk guy called kawin | 20:22 |
| eudoxia | that's a pretty cool name | 20:23 |
| fenn | see that's bullshit, they have enough time to give me the run around but not enough time to just sell me a product? | 20:23 |
| @kanzure | mom wants to know if i want a $9 x-ray of my neck. because it's cheap. | 20:23 |
| @ParahSailin | fenn: shipping is expensive unless its lcl or something | 20:23 |
| fenn | what's lcl? | 20:23 |
| @ParahSailin | less than container load | 20:23 |
| fenn | and what does that mean | 20:24 |
| @kanzure | oh, it's normally $150. okay, that's not worth it. | 20:24 |
| @ParahSailin | its really not worth their trouble to figure out logistics for selling a single unit of some cheap thing | 20:24 |
| fenn | but it's all their things | 20:24 |
| fenn | actually it was 10g, not a kilogram | 20:25 |
| fenn | $100 to ship 10g of powder | 20:25 |
| gradstudentbot | I don't know what to tell you, I thought I would have graduated by now. | 20:26 |
| fenn | they were willing to throw in a free sample, but after 5 emails i got tired of it and bought something from ukraine (which still hasn't arrived, almost a year later) | 20:26 |
| fenn | i'm probably on some nuclear terrorism watchlist now | 20:26 |
| eudoxia | who isn't lol | 20:27 |
| @ParahSailin | do you need any equipment from china in the next two weeks or so? | 20:27 |
| @kanzure | fenn is currently space-constrained i think | 20:28 |
| @kanzure | and mass-constrained | 20:28 |
| @kanzure | hrm, i should have a wishlist of random junk | 20:28 |
| @ParahSailin | well, it would be something that would have to fit in a checked bag or carryon | 20:28 |
| @kanzure | ah. | 20:29 |
| @kanzure | fenn: on a morbid note, i've often wondered what i would do with mom's business whenever she passes | 20:29 |
| fenn | i am sort of wondering about the relative price of LED strip lighting | 20:29 |
| @ParahSailin | the furniture thing? | 20:29 |
| @kanzure | fenn: i wouldn't want to run that business at all, but if it had to be closed down, i might take her shop | 20:29 |
| @kanzure | it's turned into expensive cabinets :) | 20:29 |
| fenn | she and les should get married :P | 20:30 |
| @kanzure | they would never see each other | 20:30 |
| fenn | exactly | 20:30 |
| @kanzure | she's the type that wants company | 20:30 |
| fenn | and she's your mother? | 20:31 |
| @kanzure | huh? | 20:31 |
| fenn | so your grandmother, the one who reads next big future, is that on your mom's side or your dad's side? | 20:31 |
| @kanzure | mom's side | 20:31 |
| eudoxia | next big future isn't that bad, occasionally (once every two years or so) they post MNT/zyvex stuff | 20:32 |
| eudoxia | well, rather, he posts | 20:32 |
| fenn | i like it, very broad range of stuff that i'm also interested in | 20:32 |
| @kanzure | it's really weird how she has more of an idea of what's going on in my life than my mom does (considering i speak with mom more?) | 20:34 |
| gradstudentbot | Can I borrow some sulphuric acid? | 20:34 |
| fenn | wow http://nextbigfuture.com/2014/05/south-korea-has-best-plastic-surgeons.html | 20:34 |
| fenn | DNA test time | 20:35 |
| @kanzure | nice "Travelers can use the certificate to help convince immigration officials on the return trip home." | 20:36 |
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| fenn | .wik venicula | 20:39 |
| yoleaux | "Within each osseo-aponeurotic canal the tendons of the Flexor digitorum superficialis (Flexores digitorum sublimis although accurate is no longer a common description) and profundus are connected to each other, and to the phalanges, by slender, tendinous bands, called vincula tendina. There are two sets of these:" — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vincula_tendina | 20:39 |
| fenn | aw that's not what i meant | 20:39 |
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| @kanzure | i wonder if plastic surgery can make your hands type faster | 20:39 |
| fenn | .wik bunnicula | 20:39 |
| yoleaux | "Bunnicula is a children's book series written by James Howe (and his late wife Deborah in the case of "Bunnicula") about a vampire bunny that sucks the juice out of vegetables. It is also the name of the first book in the series, published 1979 (ISBN 0-689-80659-0)." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bunnicula | 20:39 |
| gradstudentbot | Still haven't cured cancer. | 20:40 |
| @ParahSailin | south korea has lots of reality tv shows about picking the ugliest applicant and making her pretty | 20:40 |
| @kanzure | i have slightly reduced control of 4 and 5 compared to the others | 20:40 |
| @kanzure | and it's symmetrical, applying to both hands | 20:41 |
| fenn | do they give them plastic surgery or just lots of "styling" | 20:41 |
| @ParahSailin | extensive surgery | 20:41 |
| @kanzure | actually, i suppose finger 5 is okay compared to 4. | 20:41 |
| @ParahSailin | like, science fiction | 20:42 |
| fenn | kanzure: that's normal | 20:42 |
| @kanzure | yes it's normal but it's also stupid | 20:42 |
| fenn | The middle finger is often used for finger snapping together with the thumb.[citation needed] | 20:44 |
| fenn | do we really need a citation on that? | 20:44 |
| @kanzure | it would be nice to have citation of stuff you encounter in every day life | 20:44 |
| @kanzure | so that i can stop wondering about the swirls in my cereal or the magnification effect of drops of water on my glasses | 20:44 |
| fenn | "modern humans generally eat breakfast in the mornings after waking up" | 20:44 |
| fenn | journal of obvious observations | 20:44 |
| @kanzure | i'd rea dit | 20:45 |
| @kanzure | *read it | 20:45 |
| fenn | i had several eye doctors who were either unaware of "entoptic phenomena" or unwilling to discuss it | 20:45 |
| fenn | .wik entoptic phenomenon | 20:45 |
| yoleaux | "Entoptic phenomena (from Greek ἐντός "within" and ὀπτικός "visual") are visual effects whose source is within the eye itself. (Occasionally, these are called entopic phenomena, which is probably a typographical mistake.)" — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entoptic_phenomenon | 20:45 |
| fenn | anyway you can see all sorts of weird shit if you pay attention | 20:46 |
| @kanzure | "In Helmholtz's words; "Under suitable conditions light falling on the eye may render visible certain objects within the eye itself. These perceptions are called entoptical."" | 20:46 |
| @kanzure | oh well that's easy, helmholtz didn't exist therefore all of his commentary is ignorable | 20:46 |
| fenn | if you stare at a blue sky you can see blood cells moving around in the veins | 20:46 |
| fenn | if you close your eyes and stare at the sun you can see "dust motes" or some kind of turbulent fluid flow, i still haven't figured out what this is, probably edge detector feedback | 20:47 |
| @kanzure | "The Prisoner's cinema is a phenomenon reported by prisoners confined to dark cells and by others kept in darkness, voluntarily or not, for long periods of time. It has also been reported by truck drivers, pilots, and practitioners of intense meditation" | 20:47 |
| @kanzure | "practicioners of intense meditation" rather than the less intense subtype | 20:47 |
| eudoxia | Scintillating scotoma is the worst | 20:47 |
| eudoxia | and it's weird because i've never had a migraine? | 20:47 |
| fenn | while staring at the sun with your eyes closed, wave your fingers in front of your eyes, all sorts of patterns appear | 20:47 |
| fenn | they always thought i was talking about "floaters" but everybody knows what floaters are | 20:48 |
| fenn | .wik floaters | 20:48 |
| yoleaux | "Floaters are deposits of various size, shape, consistency, refractive index, and motility within the eye’s vitreous humour, which is normally transparent. At a young age, the vitreous is transparent, but as one ages, imperfections gradually develop." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floaters | 20:48 |
| @kanzure | the only reasonable plastic surgery of the hand is the type that adds a nitro booster | 20:48 |
| fenn | just remember to take your B12 | 20:49 |
| fenn | nitrous can make you deficient | 20:49 |
| @kanzure | because everyone should have some b12? | 20:49 |
| @kanzure | oh i see | 20:49 |
| fenn | (a built in crack pipe?) | 20:49 |
| fenn | this barely looks like anything https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/95/Scintillating_scotoma_interpretation.gif | 20:50 |
| eudoxia | mine look like those black and white optical illusions | 20:53 |
| @kanzure | $688/unit http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/THR-US6602-Economic-portable-ultrasonic-transducer_548685087.html | 20:53 |
| @kanzure | this is the type with the weird keyboard | 20:54 |
| @kanzure | heh running windows | 20:54 |
| fenn | wtf why would anyone buy a CRT | 20:54 |
| @kanzure | "Supply Ability: 15000 Unit/Units per Month" | 20:55 |
| @kanzure | that's the whole product | 20:55 |
| jrayhawk | because CRTs stack more easily than LCDs! | 20:55 |
| jrayhawk | duh! | 20:55 |
| fenn | not when they have round handles on top | 20:55 |
| jrayhawk | if another opportunity came up to buy an FW900 for $50, I would totally take it | 20:56 |
| @kanzure | "THR Medical, Professional in Hospital Furniture & Medical Equipment!!" what sort of weird world is this | 20:56 |
| @kanzure | "!!!!! hospital furniture!!!" | 20:56 |
| @kanzure | "Being Your Private Secretary!! " | 20:56 |
| @kanzure | "Competing in a fast developing country, China, Zhangjiagang Thriving Import & Export Co., Ltd is a rapidly growing company. To keep us at the top of this competition, our company has advanced equipment and five large-scale production lines. Besides, we also have cooperated with several hi-tech factories. " | 20:56 |
| fenn | jrayhawk: your monitors weighs 92 pounds? | 20:57 |
| @kanzure | hrm i should do some alibaba seo stuff | 20:59 |
| @kanzure | .title http://www.biotrac.com/pages/Tracs/Trac55.html | 20:59 |
| yoleaux | TRAC 55: Engineering with CRISPR, TALENs, and ZFNs | 20:59 |
| @kanzure | fenn: have you ever met phil goetz? | 21:00 |
| fenn | uh maybe? did he write for wired at one point? | 21:00 |
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| @kanzure | dunno if he did, but even if he did it's not why you should know him | 21:00 |
| @kanzure | phil says "next week they have a course on animal+human cell culture" (in DC) | 21:01 |
| cpopell`working | he lives near me | 21:01 |
| @kanzure | yeah, i want fenn to meet him | 21:01 |
| fenn | so not in austin | 21:01 |
| @kanzure | he's in DC | 21:01 |
| fenn | why do people have such generic names | 21:01 |
| fenn | hi, i'm john smith, from smith and smith | 21:02 |
| @kanzure | this is the other transhumanist ex-bodybuilder | 21:02 |
| @kanzure | who presently does biology things for craig venter | 21:02 |
| @kanzure | where in DC do you live? | 21:02 |
| fenn | arlington | 21:03 |
| @kanzure | he says it is very close | 21:03 |
| fenn | The honeymoon was out of a dimestore romance. I had the brains, she had the looks, and together we made a lovely couple. Widescreen movies and gaming (in those titles that supported it) was intoxicating. Carrying her mammoth-like girth over my third-floor threshold nearly killed me (literally), but otherwise we had the makings of a solid, long-lasting relationship. | 21:05 |
| fenn | why are amazon reviews so much better than anywhere else? | 21:06 |
| @kanzure | check your inbox | 21:07 |
| @kanzure | i wish i was better at geographically remembering which people are supposed to be meeting | 21:08 |
| fenn | that's for the computer to figure out | 21:09 |
| gradstudentbot | Hey, does anyone have an extra undergrad? | 21:09 |
| cluckj | <kanzure> this is the other transhumanist ex-bodybuilder <-- does not really narrow it down, I think | 21:09 |
| @kanzure | well, there's only two | 21:10 |
| @kanzure | jojack and the other guy | 21:10 |
| fenn | max more? | 21:10 |
| @kanzure | iirc max more never | 21:10 |
| fenn | i dunno, he seemed beefy | 21:10 |
| cluckj | he did seem kinda beefy | 21:10 |
| eudoxia | wasn't there a guy who was a chemist/bodybuilder that kanz mentioned to eleitl, unless it's this guy | 21:10 |
| @kanzure | the chemist is someone who is not explicitly transhumanist | 21:11 |
| cluckj | oh | 21:11 |
| gradstudentbot | Let's pour a bunch of chemlights into a spinner flask and claim it's luminescent e.coli. | 21:11 |
| catern | oh gradstudentbot | 21:11 |
| gradstudentbot | So, people always joke about that, but I feel like weaving baskets underwater would not be the easiest thing in the world. | 21:11 |
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| eudoxia | also what's his name dvorsky | 21:13 |
| fenn | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_transhumanist_bodybuilders | 21:13 |
| cluckj | lol | 21:13 |
| @kanzure | it was patrick arnold | 21:13 |
| @kanzure | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_Arnold | 21:14 |
| fenn | oh i've actually heard of him | 21:14 |
| @kanzure | "Patrick Arnold is an American organic chemist known for introducing androstenedione, 1-Androstenediol, and methylhexanamine into the dietary supplement market, and for creating the designer steroid tetrahydrogestrinone, also known as THG and "the clear".[1] THG, along with two other anabolic steroids that Patrick Arnold manufactured (norbolethone and desoxymethyltestosterone (DMT), were drugs at the heart of the BALCO professional sports ... | 21:14 |
| @kanzure | ... doping scandal.[2] At the time of their creation, they were not on any banned substance list. BALCO distributed these worldwide to world class athletes from a wide variety of sports ranging from track and field to professional baseball and football." | 21:14 |
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| @kanzure | "but he top-posted... loses old-skool points for that." | 21:14 |
| fenn | he's talking about warburg's metabolic theory of cancer on his blog | 21:15 |
| @kanzure | "Arnold was sentenced to three months in prison at Federal Correctional Institution, Morgantown in West Virginia for his role in the BALCO incident.[1]" | 21:16 |
| @kanzure | 3 months! heh | 21:16 |
| @kanzure | "you have now served your debt to society for having created awesome home runs" | 21:16 |
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| fenn | i wonder if bodybuilding would be as sleazy as it is today if steroids hadn't been invented in the soviet union | 21:17 |
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| @kanzure | are they on the commerce control list? | 21:19 |
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| fenn | no they are on the controlled substances list | 21:22 |
| @kanzure | oh right, the other other ohter list | 21:22 |
| @kanzure | *other | 21:22 |
| fenn | wait, i mean list of substances that are controlled list | 21:22 |
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| fenn | Congress considered placing anabolic steroids under the Controlled Substances Act following the controversy over Ben Johnson's victory at the 1988 Summer Olympics in Seoul. During deliberations, the American Medical Association (AMA), Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA), Food and Drug Administration (FDA) as well as the National Institute on Drug Abuse (NIDA) all opposed listing anabolic | 21:26 |
| fenn | steroids as controlled substances, citing the fact that use of these hormones does not lead to the physical or psychological dependence required for such scheduling under the Controlled Substance Act. Nevertheless, anabolic steroids were added to Schedule III of the Controlled Substances Act in the Anabolic Steroid Control Act of 1990. | 21:26 |
| fenn | why? because communism is evil, and you wouldn't download a pizza. | 21:27 |
| fenn | anabolic steroids are defined to be any drug or hormonal substance chemically and pharmacologically related to testosterone (other than estrogens, progestins, and corticosteroids) that promote muscle growth. | 21:28 |
| fenn | so ... if it's not related to testosterone, it's not a controlled substance? | 21:29 |
| fenn | .title http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1797194/?tool=pubmed | 21:34 |
| yoleaux | Novel phytoandrogens and lipidic augmenters from Eucommia ulmoides | 21:34 |
| fenn | apparently this is sold legally "over the counter" because it is not related to testosterone? | 21:34 |
| fenn | they also list daidzein; i thought that was a phytoestrogen | 21:37 |
| @ParahSailin | maybe it had antiaromatase activity or sth | 21:40 |
| fenn | "pecifically activate the tranactivational capacity of the sex steroid receptors" | 21:42 |
| fenn | specifically* | 21:42 |
| fenn | whatever that means | 21:42 |
| FourFire | so, for those who even care /r/futurology got made a default subreddit, so the already not fantastic content is going to get noisier and much banhammering will occur | 21:44 |
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| cluckj | what's reddit? | 21:45 |
| fenn | a commenting system | 21:46 |
| cluckj | oh | 21:47 |
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| @kanzure | "why is this still unresolved? why doesn't someone sequence a bunch of tumors together with their mitochondrial dna?" | 21:49 |
| fenn | i haven't looked into the warburg hypothesis, but what does mitochondrial dna have to do with it? | 21:50 |
| @kanzure | "the idea is that cancer stems from mitochondrial dysfunction" | 21:53 |
| @kanzure | "wikipedia says "Today, mutations in oncogenes and tumor suppressor genes are known to be responsible for malignant transformation, and the Warburg effect is considered to be a result of these mutations rather than a cause"" | 21:53 |
| @kanzure | "true that tumors are often found to have such mutations. I'm trying to think whether I consider that conclusive." | 21:55 |
| @kanzure | "it requires finding that tumors with such mutations metabolize by glycolysis" | 21:55 |
| @kanzure | "there's also a hypothesis that cancer can be caused by mitochondrial dna inserting into nuclear dna" | 21:55 |
| @kanzure | "this is hypothesized bcoz there's lots of mitochondrial dna fragments in nuclear dna" | 21:56 |
| @kanzure | "they might not be in the genbank sequences, if people strip out mito dna on the assumption that it's contamination" | 21:56 |
| fenn | ok that's some other hypothesis | 21:57 |
| fenn | and another hypothesis on top of that | 21:57 |
| fenn | if "the idea is that cancer stems from mitochondrial dysfunction" then i see no reason why mitochondrial DNA has to get involved | 21:58 |
| gradstudentbot | Yeah, but that was only a sample size of one. | 21:58 |
| fenn | is it just me or is "oncogenes and tumor suppressor genes" not really an explantion | 22:00 |
| fenn | "cancer is caused by genes that cause cancer and the failure of genes that prevent cancer" | 22:00 |
| fenn | paperbot: http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2FBF02787340 | 22:01 |
| fenn | why am i reading this | 22:01 |
| paperbot | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/How%20do%20mutated%20oncogenes%20and%20tumor%20suppressor%20genes%20cause%20cancer%3F.pdf | 22:01 |
| @kanzure | because i'm ignoring your earlier question | 22:02 |
| FourFire | mitchondrial DNA is more vulnerable to damage than nuclear DNA though | 22:03 |
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| FourFire | due to how evolution doesn't design stuff, just randomly tests stuff by breaking it | 22:04 |
| @kanzure | heh http://investor.gov/news-alerts/investor-alerts/investor-alert-bitcoin-other-virtual-currency-related-investments#.U2r0TlRDs-N | 22:09 |
| @kanzure | "Security concerns. Bitcoin exchanges may stop operating or permanently shut down due to fraud, technical glitches, hackers or malware. Bitcoins also may be stolen by hackers." | 22:09 |
| cluckj | oh no hackers | 22:10 |
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| fenn | this article is pretty interesting, if anyone is doing body building https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenoandrogen | 22:31 |
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| fenn | delinquentme: "The isolation of gonadal steroids can be traced back to 1931, when Adolf Butenandt, a chemist in Marburg, purified 15 milligrams of the male hormone androstenone from tens of thousands of litres of urine." following in the path of, something | 22:35 |
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| jrayhawk | fenn: that one broke, but yes | 22:58 |
| jrayhawk | the 92 pound CRT | 22:58 |
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| fenn | “Xenoandrogens – the new problem number 1”. You could think that this is a reaction to some athlete’s serious medical condition or even death caused by xenoandrogens. Not so. What is the biggest problem in the eyes of Dr. Smith is that the stuff actually works and still is legal. So basically, the message is that you can sell any sh*t and claim that it will make you huge but it may not | 23:10 |
| fenn | really produce any results. This is OK. But a substance that lives up to its promises must be banned from professional sports as well as from shelves of nutrition shops. | 23:10 |
| fenn | http://anti-doping.info/xenoandrogens-the-new-problem-no-1/ | 23:12 |
| fenn | elevated LDL is the best they can come up with | 23:14 |
| fenn | paperbot: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1749-6632.1989.tb14909.x/abstract | 23:19 |
| paperbot | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/88da5544077f3a12aebc8d5b5f1a52cf.txt | 23:19 |
| fenn | paperbot: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1749-6632.1989.tb14909.x/pdf | 23:19 |
| paperbot | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/1c2da1f0f99c774b9f88619558cbde08.txt | 23:20 |
| fenn | aw. "PUBLICATION_OUTSIDE_OF_LICENSE_PERIOD" | 23:20 |
| fenn | "this paper is too old, give us more money!!!" | 23:20 |
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| delinquentme | fenn, are tools like HPLC difficult to master? or at least tune for high purity? | 23:54 |
| @kanzure | unnecessarily long http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?WhyWeHateLisp | 23:58 |
| @kanzure | this isn't completely awful http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?SimulationOfTheFuture | 23:59 |
| --- Log closed Thu May 08 00:00:54 2014 | ||
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