| --- Log opened Thu May 08 00:00:54 2014 | ||
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| @_archels | I thought that there's generally a lot of refurbished lab/medical equipment floating around in the US | 01:02 |
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| @_archels | won't that beat ordering at Alibaba? | 01:02 |
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| AshleyWaffle | music https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usxRzC-TI6k | 04:40 |
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| @kanzure | _archels: no, most of that equipment doesn't work | 06:37 |
| @kanzure | _archels: because if it did, it would be sold for much more | 06:38 |
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| @kanzure | hrm | 06:44 |
| @kanzure | oh, he was in a netsplit | 06:45 |
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| @_archels | is it worth buying one that is defunct and refurbishing yourself? | 06:57 |
| @_archels | paperbot: http://www.mitpressjournals.org/doi/pdf/10.1162/NECO_a_00592 | 07:00 |
| paperbot | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/1bec416a0a27662988cbd3364e0add53.pdf | 07:00 |
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| cluckj | paperbot, http://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org/content/early/2014/03/31/db13-1612.full.pdf | 09:14 |
| paperbot | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/f84791ea3c41091483e08cc9e6591b1a.txt | 09:15 |
| cluckj | shit's broke | 09:15 |
| chris_99 | paperbot: http://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-642-40675-1_73 | 09:36 |
| paperbot | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/63f7b3b32ccb40cc815121bc924f82b4.txt | 09:37 |
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| fenn | paperbot: http://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1007%2F978-3-642-40675-1_73.pdf | 10:35 |
| paperbot | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/119017d7992207b30d055f9cbf9254fc.txt | 10:35 |
| xmj | paperbot: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0006322314002753 | 10:42 |
| paperbot | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/683b55a712728fffb3067cbd5b22a44f.txt | 10:42 |
| xmj | now that didn't work | 10:43 |
| xmj | did it | 10:43 |
| fenn | paperbot: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0006322314002753/pdfft?md5=332367733ae617da66390d1b1fd43f0d&pid=1-s2.0-S0006322314002753-main.pdf | 10:44 |
| paperbot | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/14dd0eefc5b8e398517f0b5c6adf6a38.pdf | 10:44 |
| fenn | it's a robot, not very smart | 10:44 |
| fenn | "psilocibin correlates with positive mood" no shit | 10:45 |
| fenn | if only they could make it less fun, then we could turn it into a pharmaceutical | 10:46 |
| fenn | "The yellow stickers affixed to the trash and recycling bins said 'Take Me!' and so they did. Mina Krini read the notes as an invitation that the tubs were up for grabs, but Authorities saw things differently. The District, which is in the process of replacing the bins, had handed out the stickers so residents could mark the old ones for city removal. But the ffort to pick up and recycle the bins | 10:59 |
| fenn | has lagged, leaving containers with 'Take Me!' stickers littering alleys all over town. Mina Karini and Timothy Melham were out late, after 1 a.m. because people put out their trash before they go to bed. 'The words Take Me mean people don't want them anymore,' she said. But a Secret Service agent, who happened to spot them while guarding a Georgetown home, found the scene suspicious and alerted | 10:59 |
| fenn | the police. In their report, police intimated a scheme far more sinister than seeking free flower pots. By the time they were arrested, police said the pair had 51 bins stacked in a vehicle. An officer estimated the value of all 51 at $100, which works out to $1.96 a bin. The District gets 10 cents a pound for the recycled plastic. Karini and Melham are due in court May 15." | 10:59 |
| fenn | your tax dollars at work | 11:01 |
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| @kanzure | re: project selection, it should be a general method that applies to probably most project selection situations | 11:49 |
| delinquentme | say I wanted to expat to a country with a lively science community, cheap food + cheap living + non-geographically flat | 11:54 |
| delinquentme | <fenn> if only they could make it less fun, then we could turn it into a pharmaceutical +1 | 11:55 |
| delinquentme | Oh and a big internet pipe | 11:55 |
| @kanzure | china | 11:58 |
| @kanzure | are you as cool as this? http://www.anime-evo.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/10.jpg | 12:10 |
| ThomasEgi | what's this picture about? "guys,you goat to see this"? | 12:14 |
| @kanzure | no idea | 12:16 |
| fenn | delinquentme: finland | 12:22 |
| @kanzure | no kidding | 12:22 |
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| delinquentme | Finland. | 12:29 |
| delinquentme | Nordic women as well. And they speak english huh? | 12:29 |
| delinquentme | http://helsinki.en.craigslist.fi/search/apa?query=+ | 12:31 |
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| fenn | why can't i get a treemap of ram usage | 12:41 |
| superkuh | http://juanpalomez.wordpress.com/2013/04/18/memory-usage-treemap-windirstat-for-memory/ | 12:55 |
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| superkuh | Oh. Nevermind. It is perl but windows requirements. | 12:57 |
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| fenn | there are quite a few for windows but i haven't found anything for linux yet. basically i want gdmap for ram (even valgrind GUI is text based?) | 13:07 |
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| delinquentme | it kind of pisses me off how much SV wants to hire people to be good little workers | 13:07 |
| delinquentme | Sure I realized that I'm on the complete opposite of that spectrum ... but fuck man. We REALLY want benign well behaved worker bees | 13:08 |
| * delinquentme le sad faces | 13:08 | |
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| fenn | there's nothing wrong with being a worker bee | 13:09 |
| fenn | maybe you are in san jose | 13:09 |
| fenn | delinquentme: do you ever go to science talks at UCSF/stanford/berkeley? | 13:11 |
| delinquentme | fenn, I've been to a few ORB talks | 13:11 |
| fenn | what's ORB? | 13:11 |
| delinquentme | and I didn't know those were open to the public | 13:11 |
| delinquentme | OBR ** http://www.oxbridgebiotech.com/ | 13:12 |
| fenn | .title | 13:12 |
| yoleaux | Home » Oxbridge Biotech Roundtable | 13:12 |
| gradstudentbot | I think using the laser is making me sterile. | 13:12 |
| delinquentme | fenn, sure but its just that given the right people... Businesses could expand in massive ways | 13:13 |
| fenn | no, i meant science, not biotech business bullshit | 13:13 |
| gradstudentbot | I forgot to make a control group. | 13:13 |
| fenn | the sort of stuff gradstudentbot is doing | 13:13 |
| gradstudentbot | Should this be on ice? | 13:13 |
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| delinquentme | Like I just did an interview w watsi ... and I see it turning into a SOLID way to run clinical trials in 3rd world countries | 13:18 |
| delinquentme | The data resolution is sufficient that we could overcome most of the falsificaiton of data | 13:19 |
| catern | but delinquentme, that's soooo unethical! we must give the best possible care to everyone! no compromises! | 13:25 |
| delinquentme | Biology of Aging Journal Club: Wednesdays, 1:00 PM, GH, S336A conference room. Hosted by Kenyon Lab. | 13:25 |
| fenn | i wonder if mems stereolithography + silicone molds + polyurethane resin could make a high quality lego brick | 13:28 |
| fenn | or even just machining wax | 13:29 |
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| fenn | you could engrave your name on every stud | 13:32 |
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| delinquentme | fenn, In working with integrated plasmonics there are a few things like that that I thought they could use their FIB for | 13:59 |
| delinquentme | alt revenue streams | 13:59 |
| delinquentme | Thought about tagging really expensive watches with watermarks | 13:59 |
| fenn | umwhat you worked at integrated plasmonics? talk about a small world. i set up the zenbot cnc for emc2 | 14:08 |
| fenn | is it still the house with the ham radio maps in the kitchen? | 14:09 |
| fenn | and the hot tub | 14:09 |
| fenn | oh i guess kanzure was there once so maybe that's a connection | 14:10 |
| @kanzure | nope i didn't introduce them | 14:10 |
| delinquentme | emc2? | 14:12 |
| delinquentme | they needed an application dev for internal tools | 14:13 |
| delinquentme | also built out some http robotics for them | 14:13 |
| fenn | what http robotics | 14:13 |
| fenn | emc2 is a realtime linux machine controller, it runs the little engraving machine | 14:14 |
| delinquentme | their FIB? | 14:14 |
| fenn | no, a mechanical cutter | 14:14 |
| delinquentme | OHHHHH | 14:14 |
| delinquentme | the thing for scraping the lenses off the CMOS chips? | 14:15 |
| fenn | right | 14:15 |
| delinquentme | that thing was sitting on my desk for the longest time :D | 14:15 |
| delinquentme | looked janky :D | 14:15 |
| fenn | heh i figured it would get ignored | 14:15 |
| delinquentme | but if it worked! | 14:15 |
| chris_99 | lenses on cmos chips? as in microlenses? | 14:15 |
| fenn | chris_99: they were using modified camera chips as plasmonic sensors, the chips were in DIP packaging with a (plastic?) window | 14:16 |
| chris_99 | aha gotcha | 14:16 |
| delinquentme | yeah I had worked on some cherrypy server API calls to run different color filters past their camera chips | 14:16 |
| delinquentme | and troubleshooting USB drivers in gumstix SBCs .. ended up using a raspberrypi to control the steppers and run the server | 14:18 |
| fenn | yeah gumstix sounds great until you have to actually use it | 14:18 |
| delinquentme | Then wrote some software to sort out if we were getting different measurements per filter due to heating in the light train | 14:19 |
| delinquentme | IDK it was cool sshing in remotely to check on a robot :D | 14:20 |
| delinquentme | WHAT ARE YOU DOING RASPBERRYPI >> Bleep Bleep blat | 14:20 |
| fenn | cool until some kid discovers your password is "raspberrypi" | 14:21 |
| @kanzure | logging usually happens the other way: each machine pushes logs to a log collector | 14:21 |
| @kanzure | and then some other service beautifies it up into graphs n' shit | 14:21 |
| @kanzure | so that you can avoid ssh | 14:22 |
| @kanzure | and the associated public key management headache | 14:22 |
| fenn | puff piece about integrated plasmonics http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2012-07-26/social-plus-capital-the-league-of-extraordinarily-rich-gentlemen | 14:23 |
| @kanzure | that url does not seem to fit your description | 14:26 |
| fenn | well the first half of the article is about "palihapitiya invested in this cool startup" and the rest is about their VC club | 14:27 |
| fenn | actually it's all about palihapitiya :\ | 14:28 |
| delinquentme | ^ | 14:34 |
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| delinquentme | So I sent badylack an email ( head of mcgowan regenerative @ pitt ) | 14:36 |
| delinquentme | well see if I get a response back | 14:36 |
| delinquentme | 1) how to remove viral particles 2) why not use more voluminous organs than pig bladder for these applications | 14:36 |
| delinquentme | I also think theres a huge market for cage raised pigs | 14:38 |
| delinquentme | even if its gruesome | 14:38 |
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| delinquentme | non-antibiotic to help heal the wounds the pigs get while caged ... and its a contained population so disease transfer could be minimized | 14:39 |
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| delinquentme | but then I think for a moment and consider if we had controlled tools for writing out whole genomes w correct methylation .. then we'd probably have a big step towards a working anti-aging therapy | 14:41 |
| delinquentme | Also whats a cool idea is attempting to recreate the micro / macro structure of bones for persistent haemopoiesis | 14:42 |
| delinquentme | all of this shit needs to be done ... like right nao! | 14:43 |
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| @kanzure | "This is a quick announcement that my new (5 months) DIYBio Group in San Diego is officially open for business. We are called THE WET LAB - A DIYBIO GROUP FOR ALGAE RESEARCH and are housed with generous support from Fab Lab. We meet weekly on Wednesday evenings. Today we are focused on algae research but will expand as we grow. We have 50+ members to date. Feel free to join our group HERE and find our Google Group where we are sharing ideas ... | 15:07 |
| @kanzure | ... and research HERE. We have great support from Biosurplus and are accumulating wet lab equipment. We have another warehouse where we will set up a temporary wet lab to test equipment and get things organized so that we can do synbio experiments on algae in the next few months. FYI, today we are building bioreactors for growing algae, wiring sensors and electronics, teaching about algae and molecular biology, testing cells, and studying ... | 15:08 |
| @kanzure | ... scientific papers." | 15:08 |
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| delinquentme | also SIS " Small intestine submucosa" | 15:22 |
| delinquentme | we're taking ecm from all these dirty ass part of the pig | 15:22 |
| delinquentme | I really want to start a biotech called ' distributed biologics ' | 15:23 |
| delinquentme | give pig farmers equipment to make scaffolds n shit + get that social buy in for regenerative medicine | 15:24 |
| @ParahSailin | http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/High-Quality-Bovine-Collagen_718324046.html?s=p | 15:29 |
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| nsh | what's all this collagen for again? | 15:37 |
| @ParahSailin | no idea | 15:38 |
| nsh | k | 15:38 |
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| delinquentme | nsh, collagen is part of it | 15:41 |
| delinquentme | basically we've got a ton of different growth factors embedded in ECM as well as a number of structural proteins | 15:41 |
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| delinquentme | ParahSailin, I could definitely sell it on alibaba ... but also I kind of want to monitor it | 15:42 |
| nsh | what's the objective? | 15:42 |
| delinquentme | easy to market biotech with inputs which could eventually be used in human applications | 15:42 |
| delinquentme | easy to market because I can start with horses and pets ... and I've got responses from doctors interested | 15:42 |
| nsh | kk | 15:43 |
| @ParahSailin | people already extract and sell collagen on industrial scale | 15:43 |
| delinquentme | human impact bc we're already doing research on it ... so I could develop the supply chain while research is being done | 15:43 |
| delinquentme | Correct ParahSailin but they're also charging a ton | 15:43 |
| @ParahSailin | $10/kg dry mass is not a lot at all | 15:44 |
| delinquentme | The question is if I can do it cheaply. Cleaning is the big question | 15:44 |
| delinquentme | purification | 15:44 |
| delinquentme | @_@ | 15:44 |
| delinquentme | no its not | 15:44 |
| delinquentme | thats also just collagen | 15:44 |
| @ParahSailin | the whole hog is $1/kg live, which includes like 90% water and bone | 15:45 |
| delinquentme | Theres also a social movement aspect to giving farmers tools they can use to heal their animals | 15:46 |
| delinquentme | its not a HUGE selling point ... but its one way to get groups of people involved w regen med | 15:46 |
| delinquentme | ParahSailin, good find though... Im going to email these guys + see if they can do ECM | 15:47 |
| @ParahSailin | this is what happens when you use a search engine | 15:47 |
| @ParahSailin | you dont have to produce things that people are already producing at great economies of scale | 15:47 |
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| delinquentme | ParahSailin, I would have to know the explicit viral particles I'm trying to remove to clean those out ... right? | 15:57 |
| fenn | i think caging pigs and giving them more antibiotics is going backwards | 15:57 |
| delinquentme | This wouldn't just be some machine right? | 15:57 |
| delinquentme | fenn, these aren't antibiotics :D | 15:58 |
| delinquentme | thats the beauty of it | 15:58 |
| FourFire | Old news probably, but: http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/182119-first-living-thing-with-alien-dna-created-in-the-lab-we-are-now-officially-playing-god | 15:58 |
| fenn | oh "non-antibiotic" nm | 15:58 |
| delinquentme | especially when you're deriving the ECM from within a population | 15:58 |
| fenn | delinquentme: what about prions | 15:58 |
| @kanzure | FourFire: -1000 points for listening to a news source that tells you that you're playing god | 15:58 |
| FourFire | two new types of basepairs ... | 15:58 |
| FourFire | kanzure, the title of the article is crap, the content is still interesting | 15:59 |
| delinquentme | you dont like being god kanzure ? | 15:59 |
| @ParahSailin | when i did a lab extracting collagen, i think we did salt precipitation | 15:59 |
| @kanzure | FourFire: novel nucleotides have been done very often before | 15:59 |
| delinquentme | fenn, good question. I dont have an answer | 15:59 |
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| FourFire | kanzure, they have? | 15:59 |
| fenn | you could sell prions for economic warfare | 15:59 |
| FourFire | it's the first I've heard of it | 16:00 |
| FourFire | source? | 16:00 |
| delinquentme | I mean I don't know how to separate out the desireables from the virii save for a suggestion from a orgo chemist to use capillary gel electrophoresis | 16:00 |
| @kanzure | FourFire: there's tons, it's really hard not to find anything about artificial, novel nucleotides | 16:00 |
| delinquentme | lol fenn I've thought about the damage that can be done here ... its doesn't require much creativity :D | 16:00 |
| @kanzure | FourFire: http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=%22artificial+nucleotide%22&btnG=&hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C44 | 16:01 |
| fenn | delinquentme: so you're doing protein purification basically right? but don't want to denature the proteins too much | 16:01 |
| fenn | delinquentme: virall particles don't go less than 20nm so you can run the whole shebang through a guaranteed 20nm mechanical filter | 16:01 |
| fenn | you will lose the collagen and other macromolecules with this approach | 16:02 |
| fenn | macro-macromolecules | 16:02 |
| FourFire | thanks, I thought I was getting too excited about it... I need to read more | 16:03 |
| FourFire | actually, I need to read more from the correct sources, what do you recommend kanzure ? | 16:04 |
| fenn | you might be able to dissolve your protein of interest in SDS or some other detergent, which would tear up the viroids, and since you're fractionating the different proteins they won't recombine | 16:04 |
| @kanzure | i recommend never visiting "extremetech.com" again | 16:04 |
| fenn | delinquentme: also you realize that VEGF in pigs is different from the same protein in humans right? | 16:04 |
| FourFire | ok, that's a negative, I'm asking about a positive | 16:05 |
| @kanzure | FourFire: believe it or not, that's a positive | 16:05 |
| @kanzure | think of all the hours i've saved you now | 16:05 |
| gradstudentbot | I hope they kick me out. | 16:05 |
| fenn | mode +b gradstudentbot | 16:06 |
| gradstudentbot | Who's in charge of the master mix? | 16:06 |
| fenn | who's in charge here anyway! | 16:06 |
| delinquentme | fenn, correct . we'll have homologues ... but also we're not sure if it matters | 16:07 |
| delinquentme | erm. or we're not sure if its deleterious | 16:08 |
| fenn | i'm pretty sure eli lilly wouldn't be a major company today if you could just use pig insulin | 16:09 |
| delinquentme | fenn, I've never heard of fractionating | 16:09 |
| fenn | fractionating is usually a term applied to centrifuging but in this case i mean separating with a gel | 16:10 |
| FourFire | I'll now spend some time trying to increase the quality of content on that crappy subreddit | 16:10 |
| delinquentme | Agree completely. But to have a valuable product you don't need it to be perfect . Just good enough | 16:10 |
| delinquentme | got it. | 16:10 |
| @kanzure | who said anything about perfect | 16:10 |
| @kanzure | i am trying to understand but it looks like you're strawmaning either me or someone else? | 16:10 |
| delinquentme | So yeah we'll not get the benefits derived from VEGF ... but if there are more conserved growth factors we will | 16:11 |
| @kanzure | who is "we"? | 16:11 |
| fenn | that would be a good thing to look into before you go off on a pig blending crusade | 16:11 |
| delinquentme | whoever is applying these. or me | 16:11 |
| delinquentme | Yeah i've got my list of growth factors to check out. But also separating those out will up the costs | 16:11 |
| delinquentme | its naive to say, but ideally those can just be left in | 16:12 |
| fenn | this is just to check if you have a business model at all | 16:12 |
| delinquentme | prions though | 16:12 |
| fenn | if none of your growth factors work, what's the point | 16:12 |
| delinquentme | There is none. | 16:12 |
| delinquentme | I mean you'd get some small benefit from more collagen maybe | 16:12 |
| fenn | people already sell collagen | 16:13 |
| delinquentme | fibronectin etc ... but | 16:13 |
| delinquentme | sure but I'm saying if a product is delivered with non-interacting growth factors ... then the product won't be as effective as desireable | 16:14 |
| fenn | i wonder if extruded remelted HDPE bags would make a good structural material | 16:15 |
| fenn | then again so would bamboo | 16:15 |
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| @kanzure | is there a structural reason that bamboo requires so much water? | 16:16 |
| fenn | does it require a lot of water? | 16:17 |
| fenn | i thought it grew on mountains | 16:17 |
| fenn | it certainly grows like crazy around here | 16:17 |
| delinquentme | fenn you're bay area right? | 16:19 |
| delinquentme | I want to fight someone w bamboo | 16:19 |
| fenn | hah | 16:19 |
| xmj | what about 30cm dildos? | 16:19 |
| fenn | i had a great big pile of bamboo at langton, dunno if it's still there | 16:19 |
| delinquentme | those grow like crazy here too ... castro | 16:19 |
| delinquentme | I keep getting the invites -- havnt been down | 16:20 |
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| fenn | go do some recon for me | 16:20 |
| fenn | bring your kinect and make a 3d map | 16:20 |
| delinquentme | no have kinect | 16:21 |
| delinquentme | but I know some kids @ berkeley who are doing work w monitoring respiration w kinects | 16:21 |
| delinquentme | Also I learned that the kinect has been approved by the FDA for medical applications | 16:21 |
| fenn | lame | 16:21 |
| fenn | we're supposed to have hunter killer drones by now | 16:22 |
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| fenn | huh weird all the references are to existing military hardware | 16:23 |
| fenn | http://terminator.wikia.com/wiki/HK-Aerial | 16:23 |
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| fenn | http://wordlesstech.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/Boeings-Phantom-Swift-X-Plane-22.jpg | 16:27 |
| fenn | high endurance quadcopter/airplane UAV | 16:28 |
| @ParahSailin | kanzure: requires lots of water because it has high metabolism | 16:32 |
| delinquentme | fenn, there are also claims that a 3+1 "quadcopter" can also add efficiency to drones | 16:33 |
| @ParahSailin | synchropter | 16:34 |
| @kanzure | oh yeah, it grows more than 0.1 m/day | 16:35 |
| @ParahSailin | well, thats usually when it has lots of sugars stored in rhizomes | 16:35 |
| gradstudentbot | Don't mess with me, I'm a world pipetting champion 14 years running. | 16:36 |
| @ParahSailin | but still its pretty effective with photosynthetic yield | 16:36 |
| fenn | can you inject sugar into it to increase growth rate? | 16:38 |
| delinquentme | counsyl pulls in another $28 mil | 16:38 |
| delinquentme | those guys are kind of kicking ass | 16:39 |
| @kanzure | fenn, not growing fast enough yet? | 16:39 |
| delinquentme | kanzure, is gradstudentbot basically the hipster barrista of biotech? | 16:39 |
| gradstudentbot | Man, if only I could biopsy his organs. | 16:39 |
| delinquentme | LOL | 16:39 |
| @kanzure | fenn: it looks like the other phases of bamboo are the important ones, like the 3-5 years of not doing any growing | 16:39 |
| fenn | well sugar is cheap as fuck and easier to transport than bamboo | 16:39 |
| fenn | it's the 3-5 years i want to skip | 16:40 |
| @kanzure | skip by injecting sugar..? | 16:40 |
| fenn | "t can reach its full height and width in a single three-four month growing season" | 16:40 |
| fenn | that sounds pretty good, but 5 years does not | 16:41 |
| @kanzure | i'm not sure if full height is the only property though, maybe there's some other biochemical effects that matter? | 16:41 |
| fenn | density, rigidity are important | 16:41 |
| @kanzure | why do you need 10 meter bamboo anyway? what about just lots of 1 meter bamboo? | 16:41 |
| fenn | young bamboo looks pretty good to me tho | 16:41 |
| fenn | bamboo doesn't grow 1 meter | 16:41 |
| @kanzure | well presumably less height will take less time | 16:42 |
| fenn | anyway, the longer it is the easier to process | 16:42 |
| fenn | also longer stalks are generally thicker, and vice versa | 16:43 |
| @kanzure | but yes i see what you want- some bamboo extrusion factory | 16:44 |
| @kanzure | that takes in sugar and uh, dirt, and uh, fertilizer, and poops out bamboo | 16:44 |
| fenn | "n the standard life cycle of bamboo, fungus and mold begin to develop on the outer culm within the first five to seven years of its life. Within the decade, the fungus and mold will overtake the bamboo, causing it to collapse in on itself. For this reason, harvesting bamboo for construction, flooring, or furniture is best completed after full maturity at age 3, until about age 7" i dont really | 16:44 |
| fenn | get that, why wait until its full of mold to harvest? | 16:44 |
| fenn | so it should be possible to extrude a variety of fibrous materials as tubes/rods with polymers as the binder | 16:47 |
| fenn | i have some fiberglass tent poles that are fantastically rigid | 16:47 |
| fenn | a combination of fiberglass and cellulose would be rigid but also tough, since the fiberglass strands would break first as the cellulose takes up the load | 16:47 |
| fenn | (i have these tent poles probably because one of them broke in the wind) | 16:48 |
| fenn | some of them have polyethylene sleeves which would at least contain the fibers after breaking | 16:49 |
| fenn | polyethylene/cellulose cloth would make a good flat surface covering | 16:50 |
| fenn | you'd combine these two as a sort of translucent quonset hut or geodesic dome | 16:50 |
| delinquentme | How does one go about verifying that what I'm sent from a chinese supplier is actually pig derived ECM ? | 16:50 |
| delinquentme | Is this like an effload of analytical machines? | 16:51 |
| fenn | delinquentme: use a plasmonic sensor with anti-ECM antibodies, duh! | 16:51 |
| delinquentme | lolololol | 16:51 |
| fenn | eh you could do mass spec | 16:51 |
| @ParahSailin | simple elisa | 16:51 |
| fenn | assuming you can get the antibodies for elisa | 16:52 |
| fenn | i mean that's just another thing you need to verify | 16:53 |
| gradstudentbot | I really like him, but some of his work is really problematic. | 16:53 |
| delinquentme | I could hit up one of these labs who are doing the work w ECM ... as im sure they'd have all the tools | 16:53 |
| delinquentme | aside: Cheap light, semi-ergo chairs? | 16:55 |
| fenn | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bamboo_textiles i have a bamboo washcloth and it's badass, dries quickly, feels nice, doesn't stink | 16:55 |
| fenn | delinquentme: ikea poang | 16:55 |
| @ParahSailin | bamboo textiles is just rayon | 16:55 |
| fenn | i thought so | 16:56 |
| @ParahSailin | sourced from bamboo cellulose | 16:56 |
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| fenn | it's still nice | 16:56 |
| @ParahSailin | rayon is nice | 16:56 |
| fenn | alternative manufacturing process "the woody part of the bamboo is crushed mechanically before a natural enzyme retting and washing process is used to break down the walls and extract the bamboo fibre. This bast fibre is then spun into yarn. Bamboo fabric made from this process is sometimes called bamboo linen." | 16:58 |
| fenn | if you have a bunch of branches left over, this would be a good use for it | 16:59 |
| fenn | moso bamboo "is the most common species used in the bamboo textile industry of China. Its physical properties boast an average breaking tenacity more than three times that of cotton, wool, rayon, or polyester" | 17:04 |
| fenn | "raw bamboo fabric lets almost all damaging UV radiation pass through and reach the skin" | 17:05 |
| fenn | "Very little bamboo is irrigated and there is sound evidence that the water-use efficiency of bamboo is twice that of trees." | 17:08 |
| delinquentme | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HlpPXp49d8k << kanzure listen to it for 3 seconds | 17:10 |
| fenn | a bamboo polyethylene airplane would be doable i think | 17:10 |
| fenn | tyvek is also ridiculously strong | 17:10 |
| fenn | tyvek = randomly oriented polyethylene fiber | 17:10 |
| fenn | there is a bunch of bamboo that got knocked over in a windstorm near here, maybe i should go get it | 17:12 |
| @kanzure | .title | 17:13 |
| yoleaux | Woe, Is Me - Vengeance (Live Video) | 17:13 |
| gradstudentbot | I haven't seen my PI in like a week. | 17:14 |
| delinquentme | kanzure, this too https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhBONyHQcRc | 17:20 |
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| delinquentme | screamy, saturated, mean | 17:20 |
| @kanzure | "The major accomplishment of the paper referenced in the original article is that they demonstrated the feasibility of unnatural bases in vivo. The work in the Yang, et. al. paper occurred in vitro, whereas the Malyshev paper was in an E. coli system. Malyshev, et al. noticed that the unnatural bases were being degraded in the space between inner and outer cell membranes (periplasm), so they added a membrane transport protein to import the ... | 17:32 |
| @kanzure | ... unnatural bases into the cell. From there, the E. coli was able to incorporate the unnatural bases into replicates of an introduced DNA segment (plasmid) using its endogenous replication machinery. They also demonstrated that the unnatural bases were not a hinderance to growth, and they they were not excised by the DNA repair enzymes." | 17:32 |
| @kanzure | "There have been other papers demonstrating the use of unnatural bases in various cases in vitro (some cited in the paper), but this is notable because it is a thorough example of use in vivo. Peter Schultz has done similar work, as well as exciting work on unnatural bases in tRNA. The bases in the Yang paper and those in the Malyshev paper both exhibit Watson-Crick bonding geometry, and pair by hydrogen bonding. One distinction of those ... | 17:32 |
| @kanzure | ... mentioned in the Malyshev paper is the presence of a sulfur substituent, though there is no mention of its participation in the bond." | 17:32 |
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| @kanzure | .t https://twitter.com/ethereumcharles/status/463794004492951552 | 17:37 |
| yoleaux | kanzure: Sorry, I don't know a timezone by that name. | 17:37 |
| @kanzure | .title https://twitter.com/ethereumcharles/status/463794004492951552 | 17:37 |
| yoleaux | kanzure: Sorry, that command (.title) crashed. | 17:37 |
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| @kanzure | fuck it, "We'd like to welcome Dr. Ralph Merkle to the Ethereum team assisting us with the hard problems of the cryptocurrency world" | 17:37 |
| delinquentme | what the fuark | 17:38 |
| delinquentme | yeahh ok I saw a talk by him on the latter | 17:39 |
| delinquentme | paperbot, http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15157928 | 17:47 |
| paperbot | http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1016%2Fj.trim.2003.12.016 | 17:47 |
| delinquentme | A thought: perhaps the reason that intestines + bladders are used is that they're pretty homogenous tissue types ... so correspondingly the ECM should be pretty similar as well | 18:11 |
| delinquentme | but that might be invalidated by the fact that we regrow muscle tissue using bladder derived ECM | 18:12 |
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| fenn | better cryptocurrency than singularity university stuff | 18:13 |
| @kanzure | ethereum has its own set of issues that it will have to fix | 18:14 |
| @kanzure | possibly just as bad as the singularity university infighting | 18:15 |
| @kanzure | the level of infighting associated with singularity university is truly pathetic | 18:15 |
| @kanzure | and sickening | 18:15 |
| fenn | well, i just disagree with their whole mission in general | 18:15 |
| @kanzure | selling lectures? | 18:15 |
| fenn | overpriced lectures | 18:15 |
| @kanzure | bill clinton gets paid at least $30,000/hour to do talks. is that also bad? | 18:16 |
| fenn | how about, you know, DOING stuff | 18:16 |
| delinquentme | BAM!!!!!!!!! | 18:16 |
| delinquentme | In one such study, the infrarenal aorta (5.0 cm length) | 18:16 |
| delinquentme | was replaced in 13 dogs with porcine derived SIS w27x. | 18:16 |
| delinquentme | All 13 dogs maintained patent grafts until the time of | 18:16 |
| delinquentme | euthanasia, which ranged from 4 days to 8 years after | 18:16 |
| delinquentme | surgery. T | 18:16 |
| delinquentme | fuck yes thats good news | 18:16 |
| fenn | so you can sell to vets | 18:16 |
| @kanzure | "Clinton received $10.7 million for 52 paid speaking engagements last year, a sizable increase from the 36 paid speeches he delivered in 2009 for a total of $7.5 million. " | 18:16 |
| delinquentme | fenn, ^_^ | 18:17 |
| @kanzure | okay, $205k/engagement | 18:17 |
| fenn | is there a "pet food and vet administration" | 18:17 |
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| delinquentme | also I have a really simple method for doing some trials ... as there are sufficient doctors who volunteer service to homeless animals | 18:17 |
| delinquentme | except this scales wayyyy better than their macro suture process | 18:18 |
| gradstudentbot | Yeah, but his project was so easy. | 18:18 |
| @kanzure | sheena: ping.. 16:17 < fenn> is there a "pet food and vet administration" | 18:18 |
| fenn | i was kidding | 18:18 |
| @kanzure | what's the point of having experts if you don't use them | 18:18 |
| fenn | i think both functions are performed by the FDA | 18:19 |
| delinquentme | Whaa? fenn the FDA cares about vet applications? | 18:20 |
| delinquentme | that'd be a big fat TIL | 18:20 |
| fenn | http://www.fda.gov/AnimalVeterinary/default.htm | 18:21 |
| fenn | some parts of it might be USDA | 18:21 |
| fenn | i think that's more about how to kill animals though | 18:22 |
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| fenn | Tillers International teaches classes on farming with animal power, blacksmithing, wood-working, and many more traditional skills at their learning centers in Scotts, Michigan and Mozambique. http://www.tillerinternational.org | 18:24 |
| fenn | i know someone who lives there, from a long time ago | 18:24 |
| fenn | i wonder if they'd consider earth bag construction "traditional" enough | 18:25 |
| fenn | http://www.tillersinternational.org | 18:26 |
| fenn | "to preserve, study, and exchange low-capital technologies" sounds relevant | 18:26 |
| @kanzure | we should give up tech things and form a retro skateboarding team | 18:27 |
| fenn | i wonder where vinay gupta is | 18:27 |
| fenn | or does he just do the bill clinton talk circuit | 18:28 |
| fenn | dammit xentrac | 18:29 |
| fenn | anyway, i've been thinking about detroit | 18:30 |
| @kanzure | i am completely unsure about how serious i was | 18:30 |
| fenn | is it really that much cheaper than, say, somewhere along the sacramento river? | 18:30 |
| @kanzure | cheapness is not the main interesting property of the uh.. properties. | 18:31 |
| fenn | factoring in the arctic winters and remoteness and lack of interesting people (unverified, check this assertion) | 18:31 |
| @kanzure | only reason i would bother would be excess cheaply easily accessed equipment | 18:31 |
| @kanzure | but you can use the same argument to move to china | 18:31 |
| fenn | that's also something i've considered | 18:31 |
| delinquentme | fenn, you're thinking about moving to detroit?? | 18:31 |
| delinquentme | I'd consider china | 18:32 |
| @kanzure | pls try to follow along -_- | 18:32 |
| @kanzure | i don't think he has made any commitments | 18:32 |
| @kanzure | look at the messages. it's all there. | 18:32 |
| fenn | i haven't even looked on zillow | 18:32 |
| fenn | supposedly you can buy a house for $1k | 18:33 |
| fenn | not that i really want a house | 18:33 |
| @kanzure | property taxes are the sleeping giant killer there | 18:33 |
| fenn | but a strip farm next to a body of water connected to the ocean, that's interesting | 18:33 |
| @kanzure | and backtaxes | 18:33 |
| entelechy | there was this grand kickstarter scheme not so long ago which wanted to buy a huge part of delerict detroit and turn it into some kind of zombie-themed game | 18:33 |
| delinquentme | Just electricity, people, utilities and a big fat internet pipeline | 18:33 |
| entelechy | it didn't come through | 18:33 |
| QuantumG | damn | 18:34 |
| QuantumG | Detroit is already full of the walking dead too. | 18:34 |
| entelechy | i think you should purchase a private island | 18:34 |
| entelechy | http://www.privateislandsonline.com/ | 18:34 |
| @kanzure | a private island doesn't give you direct access to all the fancypants equipment you need | 18:35 |
| entelechy | nah but if you build a floatplane hangar on it you can just get shit flown in | 18:35 |
| fenn | those islands are all 3 orders of magnitude too expensive | 18:35 |
| entelechy | http://www.privateislandsonline.com//islands?keywords=panama | 18:35 |
| entelechy | try cheaper countries | 18:35 |
| gradstudentbot | Whatever, I'm really dating school anyway. | 18:35 |
| entelechy | i'd totally do this if it wasn't for having to rely on satellite internet which cuts out when the clouds get thick nuff | 18:36 |
| fenn | also, they're even further away from interesting people | 18:36 |
| fenn | i might as well go to the north pole | 18:36 |
| fenn | or siberia | 18:36 |
| entelechy | i've met some interesting people from siberia | 18:36 |
| QuantumG | well, you said it | 18:36 |
| fenn | i don't want to invest in development that's dependent on surplus equipment | 18:37 |
| entelechy | you got your plan in mind | 18:37 |
| fenn | infrastructure is ok because that's a commodity | 18:37 |
| @kanzure | i'm somewhat from siberia, if it counts: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xS_dGgRQGRo | 18:38 |
| QuantumG | you know the answer? Blimp housing! What were we talking about again? | 18:38 |
| entelechy | man the only soviet movie i can think of off the top of my head that ive watched was 'kindzadza', now that one was funny | 18:38 |
| fenn | QuantumG: this is what i have open right now in my browser http://wordlesstech.com/2013/06/28/aether-luxury-cruise-airship-concept-by-mac-byers/ | 18:39 |
| fenn | a little bit large for a first project though | 18:39 |
| @kanzure | first? | 18:39 |
| QuantumG | wow, creepy.. I just picked two words out of the air (so to speak), I honestly thought you were talking about seasteading or something | 18:39 |
| fenn | ugh i have such a crap bookmark system | 18:39 |
| QuantumG | the first 10 hits for "blimp housing" on Google having nothing to do with "housing" in the a-place-to-live sense. | 18:40 |
| QuantumG | and there's only 3,520 results | 18:41 |
| entelechy | actually if i could live in any kind of unconventional housing unit it'd have to be something from treehotel.se | 18:42 |
| entelechy | http://www.treehotel.se/?pg=mirrorcube | 18:42 |
| @kanzure | ParahSailin: why aren't you living in china? | 18:42 |
| entelechy | like this | 18:42 |
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| @kanzure | yashgaroth: we're going to china, pack your bags i'll pick you up at 2am | 18:42 |
| yashgaroth | k | 18:43 |
| QuantumG | 1. tether a big blimp in silicon valley | 18:43 |
| QuantumG | 2. rent rooms | 18:43 |
| QuantumG | 3. Profit! | 18:43 |
| fenn | QuantumG: i am sort of talking about seasteading, in the sense that i want to build self-sufficient colonies for research and development of more such colonies | 18:43 |
| QuantumG | (oh the huge manatee) | 18:43 |
| fenn | i think environmentally powered sea vehicles will be a large part of the future of transport | 18:44 |
| fenn | wind, sun, wave power | 18:44 |
| entelechy | i think the us navy did something where they convert seawater into hydrogen fuel | 18:44 |
| entelechy | i'm not sure how efficient it is or if its just some dumb hype but | 18:44 |
| gradstudentbot | Where's my pellets? | 18:44 |
| fenn | sounds like dumb hype | 18:44 |
| entelechy | here's a dumb hype discovermag article | 18:45 |
| entelechy | http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/d-brief/2014/04/08/u-s-navy-can-convert-seawater-fuel/ | 18:45 |
| fenn | ok i don't give a shit | 18:45 |
| entelechy | ahahaha its reporting on it as if they did it with a real ship | 18:45 |
| entelechy | this is just a scale model | 18:45 |
| entelechy | http://www.navy.mil/submit/display.asp?story_id=80171 | 18:45 |
| entelechy | ah wait they mention it being a model. well. anyways. | 18:46 |
| fenn | wait, is this from nuclear power? | 18:46 |
| entelechy | nah catalytic conversion of seawater into hydrogen | 18:46 |
| fenn | wrong, read the fucking article | 18:46 |
| fenn | "a specialized catalytic converter that transforms carbon dioxide and hydrogen from seawater into a liquid hydrocarbon fuel" | 18:47 |
| fenn | key phrase being "hydrogen from seawater" | 18:47 |
| fenn | seawater is not hydrogen | 18:47 |
| entelechy | no, they split it somehow | 18:47 |
| fenn | yes, with a nuclear reactor | 18:47 |
| entelechy | where's that part | 18:47 |
| fenn | "This is really for Nuclear Powered Aircraft Carriers – They can produce fuel for the aircraft, removing a huge dependency on tankers. That is why the test was with a model airplane." | 18:48 |
| QuantumG | heh | 18:48 |
| entelechy | ahhhhhh yeah | 18:48 |
| fenn | it wasn't in the article, because the article is crap | 18:48 |
| entelechy | no dobut | 18:48 |
| QuantumG | so yeah, floating apartments in silicon valley, there's your billion dollar company. | 18:48 |
| fenn | i dont want to build apartments, apartments are stupid | 18:48 |
| entelechy | i want an ewok village | 18:48 |
| QuantumG | you don't wanna do anything, slacker | 18:49 |
| fenn | that hurts, it really does | 18:49 |
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| QuantumG | heh | 18:49 |
| entelechy | i want this ssh access on an ip i cant reach and this damn virtual machine to start working properly so i can get some work done tonight | 18:49 |
| entelechy | damn everything crapping out at once every time | 18:49 |
| fenn | QuantumG: google got fined bigtime because they did construction on their barge without being docked to a wharf | 18:51 |
| fenn | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_barges | 18:52 |
| fenn | maybe i should just camp out on that | 18:52 |
| entelechy | anyone have any thoughts on google's project loon | 18:52 |
| entelechy | http://www.google.com/loon/ | 18:53 |
| fenn | seems like a good idea | 18:53 |
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| fenn | this guy looks familiar http://www.devaul.net/ | 18:54 |
| entelechy | he looks like at least 3 friends of mine | 18:55 |
| fenn | heh yeah the reformed type 1 sysadmin | 18:55 |
| @ParahSailin | kanzure: horribly polluted | 18:55 |
| entelechy | lol they got types of sysadmins somewhere? or is that just some jokes you made up on the spot | 18:56 |
| FourFire | "<fenn> not that i really want a house" get a yurt | 18:56 |
| entelechy | fuck yurts get a mirrorcube | 18:57 |
| fenn | yes thank you for the redundant input | 18:58 |
| fenn | does anyone know what the personal airship house was called? | 18:58 |
| entelechy | https://encrypted.google.com/search?hl=en&q=airship%20house | 18:59 |
| entelechy | seems like at least one here | 18:59 |
| fenn | entelechy: really man, i know how to use google | 18:59 |
| entelechy | thank you for the vague question then :P | 19:00 |
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| FourFire | "<entelechy> i think the us navy did something where they convert seawater into hydrogen fuel" jet fuel, even | 19:00 |
| FourFire | using their nuclear reactor-powered aircraft-carriers | 19:00 |
| entelechy | yeah i didnt read the actual article until just a bit ago | 19:00 |
| entelechy | i like that plasma arc gasification to turn garbage into syngas project | 19:01 |
| entelechy | www.plascoenergygroup.com | 19:01 |
| entelechy | http://www.plascoenergygroup.com for all you with shitty link parsers | 19:01 |
| FourFire | floating yurts! | 19:01 |
| entelechy | mirroryurtships | 19:01 |
| entelechy | that'll freak the people out | 19:01 |
| gnusha | https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=fa98d738 Fernando Borretti: Import part of the molecular manufacturing article from the Transhumani wiki: Overview, History, and Mechanosythesis sections with references >> | 19:03 |
| FourFire | "<entelechy> anyone have any thoughts on google's project loon" if it works, great | 19:03 |
| FourFire | else, meh | 19:03 |
| gradstudentbot | Do I use a one or two sided t-test for that? | 19:04 |
| entelechy | yeah it seems like a pretty flighty plan with a goofy ass name like htat | 19:04 |
| entelechy | *that | 19:04 |
| FourFire | what is a mirrorcube? | 19:04 |
| fenn | yeah who would invest in a company named "google" | 19:04 |
| FourFire | entelechy, link me? | 19:04 |
| fenn | FourFire: it's a cube, with mirrors on it | 19:05 |
| entelechy | http://www.treehotel.se/?pg=mirrorcube << mirrorcube | 19:05 |
| entelechy | it's something you can live in | 19:05 |
| entelechy | and to freak out trespassing trippers | 19:05 |
| FourFire | that would freak people out lol | 19:05 |
| entelechy | it would be like stumbling upon the monolith from 2001: a space oddesey or something | 19:05 |
| entelechy | next thing you know your monkey ass friend is clubbing you in the head and you're done. | 19:06 |
| fenn | the mirrors are camouflage? but the kind of camouflage that can accidentally signal your position to hundreds of miles away | 19:06 |
| entelechy | nah its more just a cool place to live in | 19:06 |
| gradstudentbot | Still haven't cured cancer. | 19:06 |
| entelechy | not camoflage | 19:06 |
| fenn | i saw it on a "doomsday preppers" show, maybe they were confused | 19:06 |
| entelechy | they figured out how to get it so that birds dont crash into it and die too | 19:06 |
| entelechy | To prevent birds from flying into the mirrored walls, they have been clad with infrared film. The colour is invisible to humans, but visible to the birds. | 19:06 |
| fenn | why am i talking to you | 19:07 |
| FourFire | it's a hotel in sweden | 19:07 |
| entelechy | nah you can order one to wherever in the world | 19:07 |
| FourFire | cool stuff | 19:07 |
| entelechy | indeed it is | 19:08 |
| FourFire | floatingmirrorcubes is what I want now | 19:08 |
| entelechy | floatingmirrcubeships | 19:08 |
| @kanzure | /kick 4entelry | 19:09 |
| gnusha | https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=3b8c6d6a Fernando Borretti: Add a whole bunch of links to the molecular manufacturing article >> | 19:10 |
| FourFire | I wonder how the mirror surface erodes over time | 19:10 |
| FourFire | like, say a year | 19:10 |
| entelechy | me too, i'm sure after a decade you'd be like 'fuck why did i get that thing' | 19:10 |
| FourFire | if the infrared coating could also be covered by clear hydrophobic surface it could be good | 19:11 |
| entelechy | kinda like those people who invested in leaky geodesic domes in the 70s thinking buckminster fullers ideas would save the world | 19:11 |
| fenn | the domes from the 70s were not designed by buckminster fuller and ignored 90% of what he said | 19:11 |
| entelechy | really? that's interesting | 19:11 |
| entelechy | no surprise though | 19:12 |
| entelechy | people were lazy stoned hippies back then | 19:12 |
| fenn | the best dome design i've seen is the pillowdome made by new alchemy institute | 19:12 |
| fenn | it was CO2/argon inflated tefzel film and aluminum frame (i think) | 19:12 |
| entelechy | damn that thing is cool | 19:13 |
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| fenn | it was abandoned for 30 years but, except for a few tree branches that had poked through, still in good condition | 19:13 |
| fenn | the cornwall eden project is similar | 19:14 |
| entelechy | they made it to admit UV light in which takes care of mold | 19:15 |
| entelechy | cool | 19:15 |
| entelechy | glad to see this idea is viable | 19:15 |
| entelechy | doubt the mirrorcube has these things covered | 19:16 |
| entelechy | lol | 19:16 |
| entelechy | the moldy mistakecube | 19:16 |
| fenn | UV light is a double edged sword | 19:16 |
| fenn | it will kill mold, but also makes plastics brittle, bleaches colors, and you get a sunburn obviously | 19:17 |
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| entelechy | there any other unconventional geometric constructions you know about which have a decent element of practicality? | 19:18 |
| fenn | tefzel is too expensive to use as a building material but "10 year" hindered amine light stabilized polyethylene greenhouse film should do just fine, at a fraction of the cost | 19:18 |
| fenn | hexayurt is the standard open source housing design of the day | 19:18 |
| fenn | steel quonset hut is used by millions of farmers | 19:19 |
| fenn | we also make 'monkeyhuts' for burning man, which is similar to a row greenhouse | 19:19 |
| entelechy | ah yeah those things at burning man | 19:19 |
| entelechy | nice nice | 19:19 |
| entelechy | so lemme guess you're mr.gupta? | 19:20 |
| fenn | heh no | 19:20 |
| fenn | i've met him a couple times | 19:20 |
| fenn | we are pretty similar in personality though | 19:20 |
| entelechy | aye | 19:20 |
| entelechy | i just heard his name mentioned in here earlier and thought people were cracking jokes | 19:20 |
| fenn | i was cursing xentrac for not being here, because he has worked with gupta and probably knows where he is at | 19:21 |
| fenn | .title http://www.shelter-systems.com/gro-row.html | 19:22 |
| yoleaux | Portable Row Cover Greenhouse | 19:22 |
| fenn | there is a science to making unflappable membrane structures | 19:22 |
| entelechy | oh crazy i seen those before | 19:22 |
| fenn | i like their geodesic frame but i don't think the shape of the plastic is right | 19:23 |
| entelechy | seems like itd trap moisture in an undesireable way somehow | 19:23 |
| fenn | plastic flapping in the wind breaks from fatigue in short order | 19:24 |
| entelechy | yeah i seen these back in british columbia | 19:24 |
| entelechy | wont say wher | 19:24 |
| * entelechy shifts eyes | 19:24 | |
| entelechy | but they left an impression | 19:24 |
| fenn | well a monkey hut is the same thing but with recycled billboard fabric over the poles | 19:25 |
| entelechy | and i guess that improves multiple resistance factors right | 19:25 |
| fenn | please restate the question | 19:26 |
| entelechy | i'll totally restate it. what benefit does what you just mentioned confer exactly? | 19:26 |
| fenn | shade, flapping resistance, easier to tie down | 19:27 |
| fenn | billboard tarps have channels sewn in the edges you can run a rope through | 19:27 |
| fenn | they are pretty heavy and smell bad tho | 19:28 |
| fenn | i've also used just a plain silver tarp | 19:28 |
| gnusha | https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=64633749 Fernando Borretti: Add links and descriptions of a bunch of molecular nano books >> | 19:28 |
| fenn | tarps tear easily since they are thin and made of a single material | 19:28 |
| entelechy | right | 19:29 |
| @kanzure | eudoxia: you could just make a db dump and convert to git instead of manually dumping | 19:30 |
| fenn | entelechy: http://n55.dk/MANUALS/SPACEFRAME/spaceframe.html http://n55.dk/MANUALS/SNAIL_SHELL_SYSTEM/SSS.html http://n55.dk/MANUALS/DYNAMIC_CHAIR/CHAIR.html http://n55.dk/MANUALS/BED_MODULES/BED.html | 19:30 |
| fenn | oh yeah this is cute too http://n55.dk/MANUALS/FLOAT_PLAT/FLOAT_PLAT.html | 19:31 |
| eudoxia | kanzure: i'm using this as an opportunity to sort and fix things a little | 19:31 |
| entelechy | damn! thanks for the links fenn :) | 19:31 |
| eudoxia | oh i remember that from that talk you gave about skdb | 19:31 |
| eudoxia | well most of these links actually | 19:31 |
| fenn | maybe i should just go to denmark | 19:32 |
| entelechy | http://n55.dk/MANUALS/DYNAMIC_CHAIR/CHAIR.html | 19:32 |
| entelechy | i'd say this chair sucks for not having a back but i've been sitting at a bar on a stool for the past 2 hours | 19:32 |
| fenn | i used to have a yoga ball as my computer chair | 19:32 |
| @kanzure | http://www.wired.com/wp-content/uploads/blogs/wiredenterprise/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/gox-screen.jpg | 19:33 |
| fenn | i also like the kneeling computer chairs; you could make one with this building technology | 19:34 |
| eudoxia | i'm having trouble identifying what is real in that picture | 19:34 |
| fenn | it's all real | 19:34 |
| entelechy | hahaha fucking mt gox, me and my buddy were calling mark karpeles an 'untrustworthy cheeseblock eater' before everything crapped itself | 19:35 |
| fenn | someone denoised the image and then rescaled it | 19:35 |
| fenn | i dunno what's up with the pixellation on his hand | 19:36 |
| @kanzure | motion blur from bouncing | 19:36 |
| entelechy | buddy of mine just got exclusive reuters/AP distribution on all cryptocurrency-related news | 19:36 |
| eudoxia | hahaha | 19:36 |
| fenn | the bouncing bitcoin butt bubble burst | 19:36 |
| entelechy | the pixellation on his hand is from eating too many blockchains of cheese | 19:36 |
| entelechy | it causes pixellated fat growths that can't be cured | 19:36 |
| @kanzure | karpeles' idiocy isn't because he's chubby | 19:36 |
| entelechy | oh no of course not | 19:37 |
| entelechy | i'm a pretty fat guy myself | 19:37 |
| @kanzure | then why bother mentioning cheese | 19:37 |
| entelechy | because 'cheeseblock eater' is a hilarious term | 19:37 |
| fenn | i prefer my cheese in block form | 19:37 |
| @kanzure | um, but the reality of his mental issues are way more hillarious than just saying "cheese" | 19:37 |
| eudoxia | the blockchain of cheese joke reminds me of that dogecoin comic where proof of stake is a doge holding a steak | 19:37 |
| eudoxia | it's kinda cute | 19:37 |
| entelechy | that's something i can agree with kanzure | 19:37 |
| @kanzure | all you stupid redditors remind me of this: http://xkcd.com/1210/ | 19:37 |
| @kanzure | .title | 19:38 |
| yoleaux | xkcd: I'm So Random | 19:38 |
| fenn | "PHP Developer working on some weird stuff, like a mail server (POP3/IMAP4/SMTP) written in PHP" hmm.. | 19:38 |
| entelechy | lol | 19:38 |
| @kanzure | fenn: that's the least hilarious | 19:38 |
| @kanzure | fenn: what about that php ssh server | 19:38 |
| fenn | ugh | 19:38 |
| @kanzure | fenn: or how he had no employees | 19:38 |
| @kanzure | and no balance sheet | 19:38 |
| fenn | so it was all pure network effects? | 19:38 |
| @kanzure | or audits | 19:38 |
| fenn | like, why would people keep their money there? | 19:39 |
| fenn | also, why would people keep their money in an "exchange" | 19:39 |
| @kanzure | bitcoin is a surprisingly alien technology | 19:39 |
| @kanzure | it doesn't work like any other technology that people have used before | 19:39 |
| @kanzure | so a website seems like a sane thing to try to use, because you've always had to use a website for everything else in the past | 19:39 |
| entelechy | i saw some supposed code leak and i was laughing pretty hard at it | 19:39 |
| @kanzure | all you need to know about karpeles is http://web.archive.org/web/20020121050728/http://www.pokemon-noir.com/ | 19:40 |
| fenn | but everyone who got on the bitcoin train early knew about all this, so the followers should have at least known by reading what the first people wrote? | 19:40 |
| @kanzure | this is around the time he was learning php | 19:40 |
| @kanzure | fenn: no, some people are just given bitcoins | 19:40 |
| entelechy | yeah kanzure his weeabooness is laughable too | 19:40 |
| @kanzure | so given all this fodder, why the fuck would you make jokes about cheese | 19:41 |
| gradstudentbot | Are you published? | 19:41 |
| eudoxia | who the hell moves to japan just for being a weeaboo | 19:41 |
| eudoxia | god just watch anime like normal people | 19:41 |
| @kanzure | he moved to japan for a few other reasons besides that | 19:41 |
| entelechy | karpeles would do shit like piss off everyone on his team by insisting on editing shit in production and not telling anyone at all | 19:41 |
| @kanzure | he didn't really have a team | 19:41 |
| @kanzure | there was only production | 19:41 |
| entelechy | ouch | 19:42 |
| entelechy | we were making jokes about cheeseblock eating cause of some inside joke stuff really | 19:42 |
| eudoxia | it really puts my daily "why isn't this on vagrant and ansible" whining into perspective | 19:42 |
| entelechy | apologies for not sharing your sense of humour | 19:42 |
| entelechy | was there any business reasons for running shit out of tokyo? | 19:43 |
| entelechy | i mean i went to japan as a kid for school | 19:43 |
| entelechy | i would -not- want to live there | 19:43 |
| fenn | i hate when popular software projects are named after other cool things | 19:43 |
| @kanzure | tasteful joke might be osmething like, "so what are they serving in his bitcoin cafe? php soup and spaghetti?" | 19:43 |
| fenn | or just generic objects like "celery" | 19:43 |
| entelechy | you have people joking to you in your face as if youre too stupid to understand japanese about how white people smell like hamburger and milk | 19:43 |
| entelechy | which i admit is funny but | 19:43 |
| @kanzure | "cheese! randomness! hahahaha" is not a snese of humor | 19:43 |
| entelechy | even funnier when you call the kids doing that out on it and they get that scared asian look on their face and get off at the next stop | 19:44 |
| @kanzure | *sense | 19:44 |
| @kanzure | *something | 19:44 |
| eudoxia | >After a brief, unsuccessful attempt to set up a server company in Israel - "the electricity grid was bombed and the power was out for days," she recalled - Karpeles joined a software distribution firm called Nexway, was promoted and, in 2009, was offered a post in Japan. | 19:44 |
| gradstudentbot | Are you published? | 19:44 |
| entelechy | karpeles out of japanese jail in 20yrs: http://1.media.collegehumor.cvcdn.com/45/76/00454719bbc0d85f28945a87cea61533-merka-lady-consumes-entire-block-of-cheese.jpg | 19:44 |
| @kanzure | what is this about being published all of the sudden | 19:44 |
| @kanzure | he seems to be very concerned about that today | 19:44 |
| fenn | publish or perish, the law of the academic jungle | 19:45 |
| fenn | maybe it's mating season | 19:46 |
| entelechy | kanzure, i appreciate that you got a sense of wit rather than humour here, but eh, guess my tolerance for finding things funny is way lower than yours, i don't know who enjoys it more but i'm just sitting here lol'ing at most things | 19:46 |
| entelechy | it's pretty enjoyable | 19:46 |
| @kanzure | i don't care, fuck off | 19:46 |
| entelechy | neh | 19:46 |
| fenn | eudoxia: did ansible exist ~2 years ago? | 19:47 |
| eudoxia | fenn: i think so | 19:47 |
| fenn | so "enders game" the movie kinda ruins the whole story for anyone, since the whole point was you didn't know he was actually fighting aliens until the very end | 19:49 |
| eudoxia | 2012-02-23 | 19:49 |
| fenn | ok no wonder i haven't heard of it | 19:49 |
| fenn | wait what? $30/year per node? wtf | 19:50 |
| entelechy | vagrant is screwing up on me right now | 19:51 |
| entelechy | its not going past the GRUB menu | 19:51 |
| entelechy | so i gotta do it manually thru runnig it via GUI | 19:51 |
| eudoxia | that sometimes happens when i update and end up with a bunch of different kernel versions for vagrant to choose from | 19:51 |
| entelechy | hmm dont think thats happened in between the time it was working hunky dory and now | 19:52 |
| catern | hey hey you guys are using vagrant | 19:52 |
| catern | why? | 19:52 |
| catern | what's the point of it | 19:52 |
| entelechy | catern: right now because it was the fastest way to get a working dev environment for a project someone got ahold of me to work on again after a year of not working on it | 19:52 |
| entelechy | it was literally as easy as this | 19:52 |
| entelechy | https://github.com/Crisu83/yii-app | 19:52 |
| @kanzure | you can also just use vservers or lxc containers | 19:53 |
| entelechy | but otherwise it's great for working in a team where you wanna make sure everyones dev environments are homogeneous | 19:53 |
| @kanzure | you could also use a chroot | 19:53 |
| fenn | yeah i dont see the point of depending on some web startup to exist just so you can run a vserver | 19:53 |
| catern | no-one uses vservers anymore kanzure | 19:53 |
| @kanzure | diyhpl.us is one giant honking vserver | 19:54 |
| entelechy | true, but how easy is it to provision everything through puppet and stuff on those vs vagrant | 19:54 |
| @kanzure | puppet is silly anyway | 19:54 |
| eudoxia | ansible != the company that started around it | 19:54 |
| entelechy | other devs i work with arent sharpest tools in the shed | 19:54 |
| entelechy | so it helps | 19:54 |
| fenn | eudoxia: please explain | 19:54 |
| @kanzure | you saw it on reddit and that's why you like it | 19:54 |
| catern | well everyone else is using OpenVZr, LXC or full hardware virtualization | 19:54 |
| catern | openvz* | 19:54 |
| entelechy | lol i'm in the 'fuck reddit' camp for sure | 19:54 |
| fenn | eudoxia: what is the $2500 "no tech support" option for? | 19:55 |
| entelechy | i think you hounded me for linking something from there one time and have assumed i waste time there ever since | 19:55 |
| eudoxia | fenn: ansible is just a program to run stuff on servers (or local vagrant machines) and stuff, i don't know what you were looking at. ansible guru/services? | 19:55 |
| entelechy | but let me get ahead of you, 'all time on reddit is a waste' | 19:55 |
| eudoxia | s/program/open source program | 19:55 |
| fenn | eudoxia: the front page of ansible.com | 19:55 |
| fenn | er, http://www.ansible.com/pricing | 19:56 |
| eudoxia | fenn: that's just some bullshit services michael dehaan built around his program | 19:56 |
| entelechy | plus i arrived at this company who purchased a VMware license | 19:56 |
| eudoxia | ansible is free and open source | 19:56 |
| entelechy | and i was basically like 'how do i manage this the most cleanly' | 19:56 |
| entelechy | LXC/docker looks like it could do the same sort of thing though | 19:56 |
| entelechy | i just haven't had the chance to use it at all yet | 19:57 |
| eudoxia | vagrant can use docker as a backend | 19:57 |
| catern | I just don't see the point of using different tools for deploying your local dev environment and deploying a server | 19:57 |
| entelechy | no doubt | 19:57 |
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| fenn | catern: dynamically scaling up a full ubuntu install wastes time and cpu | 19:58 |
| @kanzure | who said anything about a full install though | 19:58 |
| fenn | presumably your local computer isn't running busybox | 19:59 |
| catern | fenn: I meant that as a point against Vagrant, which does that. what are you arguing against? | 19:59 |
| @kanzure | he said tools for deploying | 19:59 |
| @kanzure | a full ubuntu install is not a "tool for deploying" | 19:59 |
| entelechy | vaagrant can work with any image you set it to | 19:59 |
| entelechy | we use minimally provisioned debian | 19:59 |
| eudoxia | vagrant lets you simulate the production environment | 19:59 |
| fenn | maybe we have a different interpretation of "your local dev environment" | 19:59 |
| eudoxia | that's kinda useful | 19:59 |
| @kanzure | entelechy: everyone has already confirmed that they have used vagrant, shut up already | 19:59 |
| entelechy | and when we finally get a programmer worth a shit into the company it'll be a snap to have him working with us | 20:00 |
| entelechy | kanzure: neh | 20:00 |
| catern | eudoxia: ah that actually sounds helpful | 20:00 |
| catern | eudoxia: virtual networking and things? | 20:00 |
| catern | eudoxia: whole constellations of VMs living locally? | 20:00 |
| eudoxia | catern: do you mean mapping ports from the guest to the host? | 20:00 |
| eudoxia | and yes | 20:00 |
| @kanzure | you can have a constellation of VMs without vagrant, though | 20:00 |
| fenn | entelechy: what's your company? | 20:01 |
| entelechy | fenn: i'm not allowed to speak about it but i'll PM you | 20:01 |
| * fenn rolls eyes | 20:01 | |
| catern | eudoxia: no, I mean like virtual switches and routers | 20:01 |
| fenn | we make stealth cheese blocks for cheese blockchain eaters | 20:01 |
| eudoxia | not to the best of my knowledge | 20:01 |
| entelechy | lol | 20:01 |
| catern | eudoxia: lame, then vagrant goes back to sucking | 20:01 |
| catern | useless! | 20:01 |
| @kanzure | it's useful for people who don't want to spin up VMs through anything other than vagrant commands | 20:02 |
| @kanzure | the hard part that i struggle with is getting service discovery working in development just like in production | 20:03 |
| eudoxia | i use it for web applications, the vagrant vm is exactly the same as a remote server, so i don't have to eg set up nginx on my physical computer | 20:03 |
| @kanzure | for this reason i have been eyeballing http://serfdom.io/ | 20:03 |
| @kanzure | it shouldn't just be "exactly the same", the image is what you should be deploying | 20:03 |
| @kanzure | instead of a game of cat-and-mouse trying to do server configuration management | 20:04 |
| catern | eudoxia: yes, using virtual machines for development is useful | 20:04 |
| gradstudentbot | Yeah, I don't know. | 20:04 |
| entelechy | that's pretty cool | 20:04 |
| fenn | so, instead of "local" as in your laptop in the subway tunnel, you mean "local" as in the test server | 20:05 |
| @kanzure | also, mumble mumble something about packer | 20:05 |
| @kanzure | the test server is often something you spin up locally anyway | 20:05 |
| eudoxia | fenn: yes | 20:05 |
| entelechy | packer is fun to watch | 20:05 |
| catern | all these hip new things are so far removed from the actual physical server room I mess with | 20:08 |
| catern | we don't even have LDAP, we'll never have decentralized fault-tolerant service discovery buzzwords ;_; | 20:08 |
| @kanzure | hardcoding ip addresses into your application source code is morally wrong | 20:09 |
| @kanzure | because it gives people like me cancer | 20:09 |
| @kanzure | that's what service discovery solves | 20:09 |
| @kanzure | (also usually also some various load balancing issues) | 20:09 |
| catern | oh | 20:09 |
| catern | that sounds useful | 20:10 |
| @kanzure | and dhcp isn't always the right way to solve that | 20:10 |
| @kanzure | but also, maybe outage in your system is more acceptable | 20:11 |
| catern | oh no I wasn't making fun of serfdom or buzzwards | 20:12 |
| catern | our system sucks in every way | 20:12 |
| catern | i'm showing my jealousy | 20:12 |
| @kanzure | have you considered quitting | 20:12 |
| catern | lolo | 20:12 |
| catern | it's a student organization server room made up of donated hardware that I and other students maintain on a volunteer basis | 20:14 |
| fenn | then there's no excuse | 20:15 |
| fenn | you have no pointy haired boss to appease | 20:15 |
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| catern | ah but that's where you're wrong | 20:16 |
| @kanzure | really? | 20:16 |
| catern | i do have a pointy haired boss-equivalent | 20:17 |
| fenn | kick his ass | 20:17 |
| catern | the previous generations who still use our shell servers | 20:17 |
| catern | they vastly outnumber me | 20:17 |
| fenn | no seriously, just wrap them up in a duct tape cocoon | 20:17 |
| fenn | make sure to leave a hole for air and water | 20:18 |
| @kanzure | ParahSailin: loper-os person was introduced to me by the molecular biology grad student that was assigned to me in 2008 | 20:18 |
| catern | that's the plan | 20:18 |
| fenn | if you attach a keyboard and terminal input you can just hang them up on a rack like a salami, and they'll be fine | 20:19 |
| fenn | that's why soylent is so popular among the hacker crowd these days | 20:19 |
| fenn | for supplying your redundant array of virtual hackers | 20:20 |
| catern | flood their racks with a nutrient-rich sludge every 8 hours | 20:21 |
| eudoxia | hahaha | 20:21 |
| fenn | wake up! meal time! | 20:21 |
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| fenn | i dunno what this is but it looks cool http://www.isotruss.org | 20:25 |
| fenn | more info http://isotruss.info | 20:26 |
| fenn | i wonder if this is real http://isotruss.info/graphics/isopole.jpg | 20:27 |
| fenn | http://isotruss.info/graphics/holdingpole.jpg looks real enough | 20:28 |
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| fenn | i knew i had seen isotruss before somewhere http://fennetic.net/irc/isotruss_bike.jpg | 20:37 |
| fenn | not exactly the same | 20:38 |
| fenn | vs http://news.byu.edu/releases/archive07/May/modernmarvels/0501-25211.jpg | 20:40 |
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| fenn | i'd like to make something like that that disassembles into a set of short pole bundles | 20:44 |
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| fenn | wtf ntrs | 20:57 |
| fenn | how could it be 404 | 20:57 |
| fenn | paperbot: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1359835X01001130 | 21:02 |
| paperbot | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/ae6fcac583ff98b22137d54423fbbf4b.txt | 21:02 |
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| fenn | paperbot: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1359835X01001130/pdfft?md5=1678d3d3e91f62a9fcf83527842e77cd&pid=1-s2.0-S1359835X01001130-main.pdf | 21:05 |
| paperbot | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/aa0e718b04e29c402df832c3faebb70d.pdf | 21:05 |
| fenn | that shouldn't have worked | 21:05 |
| fenn | let's try some other 404s then | 21:08 |
| fenn | paperbot: http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/20030017982_2003023064.pdf | 21:08 |
| paperbot | XMLSyntaxError: None (file "/home/bryan/code/paperbot/phenny/modules/scihub.py", line 51, in _go) | 21:08 |
| fenn | paperbot: http://www.tech.plym.ac.uk/acmc/iccm12/site/papers/pap357.pdf | 21:09 |
| paperbot | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/55255a58ae13da725ef6062cedd6ec5c.txt | 21:09 |
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| fenn | http://femci.gsfc.nasa.gov/Isogrid/NASA-CR-124075_Isogrid_Design.pdf | 21:11 |
| fenn | jeesh 1973, why does this look so futuristic still | 21:11 |
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| dingo | hey kanzure http://keysleft.com/ | 21:15 |
| @kanzure | .title | 21:17 |
| yoleaux | You have a finite number of keystrokes left in your hands before you die. How many is that? | 21:18 |
| @kanzure | "3,801,599 Emails to your boss left" | 21:18 |
| fenn | heresy! burn the deathist! | 21:18 |
| @kanzure | simple, just say you're -100000 years old | 21:18 |
| dingo | lol | 21:18 |
| @kanzure | "5,765,183,999 Emails to your boss left" | 21:18 |
| @kanzure | gee i better get started | 21:19 |
| dingo | I have only -79,914,240,004 keystrokes left before I die. | 21:19 |
| dingo | i overflowed ! | 21:19 |
| fenn | you are already dead | 21:19 |
| fenn | one could wind the isogrid fibers around aluminum coupling nuts or tee nuts to make a nice lightweight mechanical breadboard | 21:20 |
| @kanzure | dingo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kPII561-GY | 21:21 |
| @kanzure | (context) | 21:21 |
| dingo | oh thats an awful movie, why do you know that movie | 21:21 |
| fenn | the floors/walls of skylab look like this http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/dd/Assembling_the_Skylab_Orbital_Workshop_7014162.jpg | 21:21 |
| @kanzure | how could i NOT know that movie | 21:22 |
| @kanzure | the live action one wasn't completely crap | 21:22 |
| fenn | eh live action? | 21:22 |
| dingo | lol been 10 years ... maybe its not so bad... i forgot about heads exploding | 21:23 |
| @kanzure | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXcmG2uvgRY | 21:23 |
| @kanzure | .title | 21:23 |
| yoleaux | Fist of the North Star (1995 Live Action) | 21:23 |
| fenn | okay guess what i am not watching | 21:27 |
| @kanzure | bah why not | 21:27 |
| @kanzure | better than writing 5 billion emails to your boss | 21:27 |
| fenn | it's 2 hours, and i already know what happens | 21:27 |
| @kanzure | this is why more than one monitor is useful | 21:28 |
| fenn | so i can accomplish nothing twice as fast | 21:28 |
| @kanzure | i'd like to think i do a little bit more than nothing | 21:28 |
| fenn | looks like homs, syria | 21:29 |
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| dingo | i do nothing very well | 21:31 |
| dingo | anytime you need nothing, let me know, i'm there for you | 21:31 |
| fenn | can you take over for an hour while i go do something | 21:32 |
| @kanzure | dingo: "When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all." | 21:32 |
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| dingo | i'm doing nothing pretty well now, how do i get people to stop thinking i know everything, thats my next task | 21:35 |
| eudoxia | fenn: i wonder why the floors on the skylab were rigid metal instead of something like a mesh | 21:35 |
| @kanzure | dingo: have you tried giving the wrong answers? | 21:35 |
| dingo | yeah -- it just made things worse lol | 21:35 |
| @kanzure | tough problem | 21:36 |
| dingo | cause they don't know it! | 21:36 |
| dingo | never do a bad job well -- you'll get stuck with it | 21:36 |
| @kanzure | how stuck are you now? | 21:36 |
| dingo | i'm ls's replacement | 21:36 |
| @kanzure | yep | 21:36 |
| fenn | eudoxia: it was a rigid mesh... ? i dont get the question | 21:37 |
| dingo | my mouth hurts from so much blah blah blah | 21:37 |
| dingo | then i realize most people forget 90% of what i say lol | 21:37 |
| @kanzure | and even if you type it out, they wont read it anyway | 21:37 |
| dingo | that e-mails too long! give me the answer! lol | 21:37 |
| eudoxia | fenn: i mean something like a net, something flexible and lightweight | 21:37 |
| fenn | eudoxia: equipment and stuff was bolted to the floors during launch | 21:37 |
| @kanzure | dingo: if i was in your situation, i would start thinking about how many other digits i want | 21:38 |
| dingo | so i pushed back about that -- guess what they did, made me 50/50 lead, with *vv* as my complimentary, without any extra digits... wtf | 21:39 |
| dingo | sincerely letting vv do the leading and me do the leaving, let it sink | 21:39 |
| @kanzure | heh' nice | 21:39 |
| @kanzure | well if that's how they feel about it | 21:40 |
| @kanzure | not much else to say on the matter | 21:40 |
| dingo | i haven't been making ultimatums yet... i think they're doing that stupid move "lets make them both the same position, then decide whose best", but you know, that won't end well, vv would leave if i got it and he didn't | 21:41 |
| fenn | eudoxia: "Skylab's floors were made up of triangular grids. Triangular shoe cleats fitted into the grid cavities. With a twist of his foot, a crewman could position himself wherever he chose." | 21:41 |
| fenn | a flexible grid would suck to use for positioning | 21:41 |
| @kanzure | dingo: there's already too many levels to the top anyway, so it wouldn't matter either way | 21:42 |
| dingo | well im gunna go soak up some denny's cheesey cheesey, ttyl | 21:43 |
| @kanzure | priorities | 21:43 |
| gradstudentbot | She keeps talking about her Nature paper, but she was only third author. | 21:44 |
| fenn | here's a better view of the skylab floor grid https://www.flickr.com/photos/studies_and_observations/9579058/ | 21:45 |
| fenn | i think octet truss is better from a mass vs rigidity standpoint, but isogrid is more compact | 21:46 |
| fenn | hm. entelechy should find this funny http://www.collectspace.com/ubb/Forum14/HTML/000893.html | 21:49 |
| entelechy | ahahaha | 21:49 |
| entelechy | that was 4yrs ago | 21:50 |
| entelechy | someone order kanzure a wheel of cheese please | 21:50 |
| fenn | and have it delivered by rocket? | 21:50 |
| entelechy | by nuclear missle | 21:50 |
| @kanzure | your petty weapons of war can't destroy me | 21:50 |
| @kanzure | no matter how cheesey | 21:51 |
| entelechy | but you'll eat the wheel of cheese? | 21:51 |
| entelechy | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheshire_Mammoth_Cheese this is my favorite giant cheese story | 21:52 |
| entelechy | white house gets delivered 1234 pound block of the stuff | 21:52 |
| entelechy | doesnt know wtf to do with the stinky thing | 21:52 |
| entelechy | so finally they were like 'lets just invite a bunch of people to take some of it' | 21:52 |
| fenn | was the 1234 intentional? | 21:53 |
| entelechy | nah it was just read off the wiki article | 21:53 |
| entelechy | i dont know what their idea was other than 'its 1802 lets make a shit load of cheese for freedom' | 21:54 |
| eudoxia | >The naming of the cheese was the first time the word mammoth was used as an adjective. | 21:54 |
| fenn | untold history of the united states | 21:54 |
| eudoxia | idk guys this is more interesting than the cheese | 21:54 |
| entelechy | is that substantiated or just an anecdote | 21:54 |
| @kanzure | why are you in this channel again? | 21:55 |
| entelechy | when was the first wolly mammoth found | 21:55 |
| entelechy | kanzure: because thank you for the interesting discussions but fuck you for the pretentiousness | 21:55 |
| eudoxia | entelechy: i dunno there's a reference next to it | 21:55 |
| eudoxia | kanzure: me or enty | 21:55 |
| @kanzure | first i'm emotionless, then i'm pretentious, next i'm what | 21:55 |
| entelechy | you're probably a pretty cool guy IRL | 21:55 |
| @kanzure | i don't care | 21:55 |
| entelechy | but a dick online | 21:55 |
| entelechy | why? lots of idiots here | 21:56 |
| @kanzure | still don't care | 21:56 |
| entelechy | i can tell why though | 21:56 |
| @kanzure | eudoxia: you're fine | 21:57 |
| eudoxia | cool | 21:58 |
| @kanzure | meh http://www.1coinpool.com/blog/bitcoin-atm-btm-kiosks-startups | 22:00 |
| entelechy | a buddy of mine i was trying to start a company with not long ago, which failed due to numereous reasons unfortunately outside of our control and now being taken care of by lawyers, moved on to other things and has now secured exclusive reuters/AP distro of cryptocurrency news | 22:01 |
| entelechy | the only reason we can afford lawyers is because of cryptocurrency | 22:02 |
| entelechy | shits real | 22:02 |
| @kanzure | why are you saying those things | 22:02 |
| @kanzure | what the fuck dude | 22:02 |
| entelechy | lol why not | 22:03 |
| @kanzure | ##hplusroadmap is not just some random-ass stream of consciousness text | 22:03 |
| @kanzure | and if that text was supposed to be a refutation of "meh", it's a really terrible one because it doesn't even address the topic of the fucking link | 22:04 |
| entelechy | which is 'bitcoin ATMs are a thing'? | 22:05 |
| entelechy | vs your opinion of 'meh'? | 22:05 |
| entelechy | 'meh' is not the topic of the fucking link | 22:05 |
| @kanzure | "shits real" and "some story about being too poor to pay lawyers" is not a good response to "here's a list of bitcoin atms, but meh because the list sucks" because it's very distantly related (aka unrelated) | 22:05 |
| entelechy | i'm not fuckin psychic and able to tell everything you're on the same tip of | 22:06 |
| entelechy | that said i dont see the original vancouver one on there | 22:07 |
| @kanzure | i'm not either; i wasn't making commentary about lawyers- how would you even get to that topic | 22:07 |
| @kanzure | sigh | 22:07 |
| entelechy | it's an aside | 22:07 |
| @kanzure | uh... sure. | 22:07 |
| @kanzure | i highly doubt that | 22:07 |
| entelechy | i'm not going to blather off here as to why. everyone knows lawyers are expensive though | 22:07 |
| entelechy | all that matters | 22:07 |
| @kanzure | no, that's not all that matters | 22:08 |
| @kanzure | otherwise you would just say anything in here | 22:08 |
| entelechy | not really no | 22:08 |
| @kanzure | you seem to be evidence to the contrary | 22:08 |
| entelechy | lol | 22:09 |
| entelechy | whatever you say bossman | 22:09 |
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| @kanzure | fenn: what's the c2.com of hardware? | 22:26 |
| fenn | um. please restate the question | 22:26 |
| fenn | so, believe it or not, engineers from multiple disciplines don't really talk to each other | 22:27 |
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| fenn | eh you are at hive76? | 22:27 |
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| @kanzure | jmil used to be at hive76 | 22:29 |
| @kanzure | jmil: welcome back to the land of the living | 22:29 |
| @kanzure | jmil: also, opensls was cool | 22:29 |
| fenn | should i watch those AMRI videos? | 22:29 |
| @kanzure | i haven't looked. maybe? | 22:29 |
| @kanzure | also, why don't they talk? | 22:29 |
| jmil | o/ | 22:30 |
| @kanzure | the disciplines would cross and everything would break? | 22:30 |
| jmil | thanks! | 22:30 |
| jmil | if you like science, fenn | 22:30 |
| jmil | :D | 22:30 |
| jmil | what? they do talk | 22:30 |
| jmil | they are talkies | 22:30 |
| @kanzure | i was replying to: | 22:30 |
| @kanzure | 20:27 < fenn> so, believe it or not, engineers from multiple disciplines don't really talk to each other | 22:30 |
| jmil | i’m so confused | 22:30 |
| jmil | oh | 22:30 |
| @kanzure | do you know off-hand what was so expensive about opensls? | 22:30 |
| @kanzure | iirc it was $15k? | 22:30 |
| jmil | ya | 22:31 |
| jmil | it was $7k for the laser cutter, then lots of little bits | 22:31 |
| @kanzure | was the laser cutter off the shelf or over the counter? | 22:31 |
| jmil | usually they are $200k, so i dunno how you think $15k is expensive :D | 22:31 |
| @kanzure | the $200k ones are also expensive | 22:31 |
| jmil | lulz | 22:31 |
| fenn | so a gantry style laser doesn't seem like the right tool; a galvo system would be more appropriate, and faster | 22:31 |
| @kanzure | with 50,000% markup | 22:31 |
| fenn | $15k is expensive for a 3d printer toy | 22:32 |
| gradstudentbot | Yeah, it's significant. | 22:32 |
| fenn | too bad DMD would probably melt | 22:32 |
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| fenn | maybe you could put the dmd under water | 22:33 |
| fenn | lol | 22:33 |
| jmil | why is it a toy? | 22:33 |
| jmil | we are using it for science | 22:33 |
| fenn | what are you using SLS for? | 22:33 |
| jmil | guess you’ll have to watch taht video | 22:33 |
| gradstudentbot | My matlab crashed. | 22:33 |
| fenn | ugh i hate videos | 22:34 |
| @kanzure | there was also a blog | 22:34 |
| jmil | gradstudentbot: you fail | 22:34 |
| gradstudentbot | Yeah, I'm a 4th year. No wait, I'm a 6th year. | 22:34 |
| jmil | gradstudentbot: when do you graduate? | 22:34 |
| gradstudentbot | So, there's this really good conference in Spain that I want to attend. | 22:34 |
| @kanzure | gradstudentbot: you should coauthor a paper with jmil | 22:34 |
| gradstudentbot | I have the methods section but I haven't written the introduction or conclusions. | 22:34 |
| @kanzure | that was fast | 22:35 |
| fenn | jmil: are there thread deposition systems for reprap yet? like fiber composite layup | 22:35 |
| jmil | i thought someone did that | 22:35 |
| fenn | there was a silly thing with mechanical pencil mechanism to do copper wire circuit boards, but i'm more interested in fiberglass/polymer composites | 22:37 |
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| fenn | jmil: have you looked into photo cured resins for cell scaffolding? | 22:42 |
| jmil | yes fenn, we are synthesizing it. it’s part of my phd thesis from ‘08 | 22:43 |
| jmil | that’s what the open dlp is all about | 22:43 |
| fenn | i am out of the loop | 22:43 |
| @kanzure | link? | 22:43 |
| fenn | i thought you were doing sugar printing with reprap | 22:43 |
| fenn | http://open3dlp.blogspot.com/ | 22:44 |
| fenn | oh the thing about bamboo fiber/hdpe extrusion is you can extrude in t-slot cross sections | 22:45 |
| jmil | fenn, we do a lot of stuff | 22:45 |
| fenn | jmil: do you think dlp would work for making molds to cast lego bricks? | 22:46 |
| jmil | ummmmm… you can use legos to make a mold to cast lego bricks. | 22:47 |
| fenn | there are something like 11,000 different lego bricks | 22:49 |
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| entelechy | i didnt grow up rich enough to get lego for christmas | 22:51 |
| entelechy | instead i got this shit | 22:51 |
| entelechy | https://sites.google.com/site/sportsrunner117/picturesforwebsite020.jpg | 22:51 |
| fenn | 11,274 sets, 33,664 parts, 6,907 minifigs | 22:52 |
| nmz787_i | http://vimeo.com/858385 | 22:53 |
| nmz787_i | .title | 22:53 |
| yoleaux | What If Bacteria Designed Computers? on Vimeo | 22:53 |
| nmz787_i | by Ward Cunningham | 22:54 |
| fenn | anyway designing all the parting lines and sprues and air gaps and ejector pins and mold keys seems a lot easier to do in a computer automatically | 22:54 |
| fenn | then you can just download a set description with all the brick geometries in it and press 'print' and it makes a mold with all the bricks | 22:55 |
| fenn | well, one for each color | 22:55 |
| @kanzure | hm: "Sheiko S.S., Möller M., Reuvekamp E.M.C.M., Rogalla H., “Mesoscopic Calibration of AFM Tips”, NL-9202179, 1992" | 22:57 |
| fenn | jmil: i've never actually seen a dlp printed part so i'm not sure what the surface quality is really like | 23:00 |
| jmil | you should look into opendlp, we have microscope pics | 23:01 |
| fenn | yeah but that's just confusing because of the arbitrary scale | 23:02 |
| fenn | i mean, what looks like huge bumps in a microscope are just a glossy sheen to the unaided eye | 23:02 |
| nmz787_i | what's going on in here? | 23:03 |
| fenn | i'm rambling about isogrid and pestering jmil about 3d printers | 23:03 |
| fenn | ok so after watching that 13 minute video i learned he casts hydrogel around the sintered sugar | 23:05 |
| nmz787_i | duuhhh | 23:08 |
| nmz787_i | you coulda asked us | 23:08 |
| fenn | the answer was "watch the video" | 23:09 |
| nmz787_i | the key is the extrusion speed, temperatures, sugar recipe.... at least | 23:09 |
| nmz787_i | oh | 23:09 |
| nmz787_i | I'm sorry | 23:09 |
| fenn | this was SLS of maltose (?) | 23:09 |
| nmz787_i | idk | 23:09 |
| nmz787_i | i assume there is a wiki or github recipe somewhere | 23:09 |
| nmz787_i | or some journal article | 23:09 |
| fenn | .title http://youtube.com/watch?v=EE5KRSlO9rA this is all i know | 23:10 |
| yoleaux | fenn: Sorry, that command (.title) crashed. | 23:10 |
| fenn | jesus yoleaux you're making me look bad | 23:10 |
| nmz787_i | http://youtube.com/watch?v=EE5KRSlO9rA | 23:10 |
| nmz787_i | .title | 23:10 |
| yoleaux | Andreas Bastian - AMRI 2013 Final Presentations | 23:10 |
| nmz787_i | paperbot: http://dx.doi.org/10.1038/scientificamerican0413-54 | 23:11 |
| paperbot | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/3717ed0d4ba12ee8cb269e7e72d496cf.txt | 23:11 |
| cpopell`working | y'all see what gwern just posted in #lesswrong? https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/280585369/2014-dubal.pdf | 23:12 |
| nmz787_i | http://www.google.com/patents/US20120058174 | 23:12 |
| nmz787_i | cpopell`working: is that safe for work? | 23:12 |
| nmz787_i | fenn: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3586565/ | 23:13 |
| cpopell`working | nmz787_i: Life Extension Factor Klotho Enhances Cognition | 23:13 |
| cpopell`working | (title) | 23:13 |
| nmz787_i | hmm, it says open access at the top right | 23:13 |
| nmz787_i | so why is it on dropbox? | 23:13 |
| cpopell`working | I just snagged the link from gwern | 23:14 |
| @kanzure | "separation of synaptic membrane fractions" those poor souls | 23:14 |
| cpopell`working | http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.celrep.2014.03.076 ugh | 23:16 |
| nmz787_i | http://c2.com/cybords/ | 23:20 |
| * fenn mumbles something about choline | 23:21 | |
| @kanzure | is this because ward cunningham was in the news, or because i mentioned c2.com earlier today | 23:21 |
| @kanzure | too many signals getting crossed | 23:21 |
| fenn | i'm knowledgeable about electronics and control systems and molecular biology and i still don't get it | 23:24 |
| @kanzure | fenn: what would it take to get a c2.com wiki for hardware | 23:24 |
| @kanzure | fenn: i mean, where people would write the epic "perl is evil" rants except of hardware | 23:24 |
| fenn | you'd need to get eric hunting interested | 23:25 |
| fenn | you could just copy openmanufacturing onto it :P | 23:25 |
| fenn | jk don't do that | 23:25 |
| @kanzure | why doesn't eric do electronics? | 23:26 |
| @kanzure | afaik he doesn't | 23:26 |
| fenn | i think he used to build ebook readers, before they were a thing | 23:26 |
| fenn | joeypad(?) | 23:26 |
| nmz787_i | he's using atmel chips to simulate cascade reactions or something like that... he says each chip computes a 'dice toss', and then he connects them to others and they add together | 23:27 |
| fenn | http://radio-weblogs.com/0119080/stories/2003/02/27/interestsJoeypadAndGeode.html | 23:27 |
| fenn | nmz787_i: ok but ... WHY | 23:28 |
| nmz787_i | "i did this dice thing because my ham radio friend said, uh, gee why don't you do this dice thing" | 23:31 |
| entelechy | english language textbooks from russia | 23:31 |
| entelechy | has me curious | 23:31 |
| @kanzure | "In 1882 Edison switched on the world's first large-scale electrical supply network that provided 110 volts direct current to fifty-nine customers in lower Manhattan" | 23:33 |
| @kanzure | only 59 customers? | 23:33 |
| entelechy | was that edison's operation? | 23:33 |
| entelechy | wait no i didnt even catch that part | 23:33 |
| entelechy | hahahaha how dumbfuck of me | 23:33 |
| entelechy | all i know is that they operated for a while with the DC on oldschool elevators | 23:33 |
| fenn | what "Liquid Crystal Light Valve displays readily afforded resolutions in excess of 300dpi with additive color of potentially unlimited color depth and screen areas as big as a movie theater screen. Then, and now, they far surpassed the graphics capabilities of the most powerful computers." | 23:34 |
| @kanzure | wikipedia's history of electronics is awful. it has no sense of scale of circuits. | 23:34 |
| entelechy | i knew this guy in my neighborhood back where im from who wired his whole place up with solar power/dc off the grid in the middle of town | 23:35 |
| entelechy | great way to go | 23:35 |
| entelechy | http://www.microsec.net/ this dude! | 23:36 |
| entelechy | he had a hydrogen fuel cell powered boat | 23:36 |
| @kanzure | ugh go away | 23:36 |
| entelechy | kanzure: never | 23:37 |
| -!- mode/##hplusroadmap [+b entelechy!*@*] by kanzure | 23:37 | |
| nmz787_i | hmm this is neat https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquid_crystal_on_silicon | 23:37 |
| fenn | heh i had read his radiation hormesis pages | 23:38 |
| -!- mode/##hplusroadmap [-b entelechy!*@*] by kanzure | 23:38 | |
| -!- mode/##hplusroadmap [+q entelechy!*@*] by kanzure | 23:38 | |
| fenn | a little too gung-ho without the evidence to back up wearing a chunk of uranium around your neck | 23:38 |
| @kanzure | fenn, what is the approximate size (in number of elements/nodes) of circuits between 1600-1800? or was nobody building circuits because nobody had capacitors or diodes etc. | 23:39 |
| nmz787_i | wasn't that contaminated steel in china/hong kong retracted or something? | 23:39 |
| nmz787_i | contaminated with radioation steel (journal article) | 23:39 |
| nmz787_i | diodes were pretty shitty/nonexistent before 1900 | 23:40 |
| fenn | kanzure: 5-10 | 23:41 |
| @kanzure | fascinating | 23:41 |
| @kanzure | "In the 19th and early 20th century, electricity was not part of the everyday life of many people, even in the industrialised Western world. The popular culture of the time accordingly often depicts it as a mysterious, quasi-magical force that can slay the living, revive the dead or otherwise bend the laws of nature.[73] This attitude began with the 1771 experiments of Luigi Galvani in which the legs of dead frogs were shown to twitch on ... | 23:41 |
| @kanzure | ... application of animal electricity. "Revitalization" or resuscitation of apparently dead or drowned persons was reported in the medical literature shortly after Galvani's work. These results were known to Mary Shelley when she authored Frankenstein (1819), although she does not name the method of revitalization of the monster. The revitalization of monsters with electricity later became a stock theme in horror films." | 23:41 |
| nmz787_i | there was the coherer just before the cat's whisher | 23:41 |
| fenn | leyden jars and piles took a long time to develop into capacitors and batteries | 23:41 |
| @kanzure | i didn't know that it galvani was directly responsible | 23:41 |
| nmz787_i | whisker* | 23:41 |
| @kanzure | -it | 23:41 |
| @kanzure | so he shocked a few frogs and now we have weird science fiction about blasting lightning bolts into the undead to awaken the hidden plague? | 23:42 |
| fenn | nmz787_i: no retraction that i'm aware of.. mostly dumb silence from the "radiation causes cancer" crowd | 23:43 |
| @kanzure | piles? | 23:43 |
| fenn | there are other studies to back it up, like incidence of cancer among nuclear reactor workers (lower than average) | 23:44 |
| nmz787_i | oh, I guess a coherer isn't a diode per-se | 23:44 |
| fenn | kanzure: piles are like really tall stacks of multiple layers of saltwater soaked cloth and different metals | 23:44 |
| nmz787_i | but the thermionic tube was 1873 and crystal diodes 1874 | 23:44 |
| nmz787_i | hertz was in the late 1800s, making waves with spark gaps | 23:45 |
| fenn | what is a coherer? | 23:46 |
| @kanzure | shouldn't there be like, uh, "circuit philosophers" who were theorizing about capacitors around that time | 23:46 |
| fenn | i guess it's a tunneling spark gap | 23:47 |
| @kanzure | "damn, if only i had this one other part that doesn't exist yet, .." | 23:47 |
| nmz787_i | fenn: but to reset it, you had to physically shake it | 23:47 |
| fenn | what's the point of that | 23:47 |
| nmz787_i | fenn: marconis solution was an automatic hammer | 23:47 |
| fenn | "when dusty air was electrified, the particles of dust would tend to attach themselves together in the form of strings" | 23:48 |
| fenn | nmz787_i: do you know about peratech quantum tunneling composite rubber? | 23:49 |
| fenn | it's a low impedance pressure sensor | 23:49 |
| fenn | you can actually run DC motors through the sensor, so they turn on when you press the blob of rubber (with wires jabbed in the sides) | 23:50 |
| fenn | it works on a similar mechanism, except the particles don't actually bond together | 23:50 |
| nmz787_i | fenn: this article is littered with 'rejected' https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiation_hormesis | 23:50 |
| nmz787_i | hmm | 23:51 |
| nmz787_i | no i've not heard of that | 23:51 |
| nmz787_i | i saw the axially conductive tape on sparkfun recently :D | 23:51 |
| fenn | nmz787_i: all i see is "National Research Council" doesnt like it, and 54 citations | 23:52 |
| fenn | http://www.peratech.com/qtc-material.html | 23:53 |
| @kanzure | i doubt galvani was routing lightning bolts straight into frog legs anyway | 23:53 |
| nmz787_i | "Hwang et al. proposed that the lower rate of "all cancers" might due to the exposed populations higher socioeconomic status and thus overall healthier lifestyle, but this was difficult to prove" | 23:54 |
| nmz787_i | kanzure: poking a chick heart with a scalpel will cause it to start or stop fibrillating | 23:54 |
| fenn | galvani was using piles, which were based on "galvanic current" | 23:54 |
| fenn | .ety galvanic | 23:55 |
| nmz787_i | and of course you know about the robot and rat neural cell thing | 23:55 |
| yoleaux | galvanic (adj.): "1797; see galvanism + -ic." — http://etymonline.com/index.php?term=galvanic | 23:55 |
| fenn | .ety galvanism | 23:55 |
| yoleaux | galvanism (n.): ""electricity produced by chemical action," 1797, from French galvanisme or Italian galvanismo, from Italian physicist Luigi Galvani (1737-1798) who discovered it c.1792 while running currents through the legs of dead frogs." — http://etymonline.com/index.php?term=galvanism | 23:55 |
| nmz787_i | soo i doubt you'd need much voltage to get a leg to jump | 23:55 |
| fenn | it's not about the voltage so much as the rate of change in current | 23:55 |
| nmz787_i | a 9-volt does the trick on your tongue ;) | 23:55 |
| nmz787_i | i'm not so sure about that | 23:56 |
| nmz787_i | you need the voltage to cause the impulse to start | 23:56 |
| gradstudentbot | It's not really significant, but there's definitely a trend. | 23:56 |
| gradstudentbot | Cancer: still not cured. | 23:56 |
| fenn | yeah if you lay a frog leg on a copper plate and poke it with a zinc wire touching the plate, it should jump | 23:56 |
| nmz787_i | to get over the membrane insulation | 23:56 |
| fenn | myelin only covers part of the cell | 23:56 |
| fenn | also, cells run on like 200mV | 23:57 |
| nmz787_i | the membrane covers the whole cell | 23:57 |
| fenn | so what | 23:57 |
| nmz787_i | it is fat/oil | 23:57 |
| fenn | nerve cells are sitting there ready to trigger at the slightest provocation | 23:57 |
| fenn | they're like mousetraps | 23:57 |
| fenn | throw in a ping pong ball | 23:58 |
| nmz787_i | hmm, so it's some number of Joules then? | 23:58 |
| fenn | you should "experience the joule!" | 23:58 |
| nmz787_i | enough to pull some ions and shift the concentration enough? | 23:58 |
| fenn | https://www.flickr.com/photos/sgoralnick/4993190055/ this was so much fun | 23:59 |
| fenn | people lining up to get the shit zapped out of them | 23:59 |
| --- Log closed Fri May 09 00:00:55 2014 | ||
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