| --- Log opened Sun Jun 01 00:00:21 2014 | ||
| -!- Viper168_ [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 00:19 | |
| -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] | 00:21 | |
| -!- Viper168_ is now known as Viper168 | 00:29 | |
| -!- ebowden [~ebowden@1.152.140.125] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 00:36 | |
| -!- delinquentme [~dingo@74.61.157.78] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 00:37 | |
| -!- Auctus [~Auctus@unaffiliated/auctus] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 00:54 | |
| -!- drewbot [~cinch@ec2-54-80-236-105.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 00:55 | |
| -!- drewbot [~cinch@ec2-107-21-162-223.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 00:55 | |
| -!- kumavis [~kumavis@107-219-148-42.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 00:56 | |
| -!- kumavis [~kumavis@107-219-148-42.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] | 01:00 | |
| -!- FourFire [~fourfire@227-138-15.connect.netcom.no] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 01:12 | |
| -!- delinquentme [~dingo@74.61.157.78] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] | 01:14 | |
| -!- delinquentme [~dingo@74.61.157.78] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 01:14 | |
| -!- FourFire [~fourfire@227-138-15.connect.netcom.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] | 01:23 | |
| -!- delinquentme [~dingo@74.61.157.78] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] | 01:32 | |
| -!- FourFire [~fourfire@207-222-15.connect.netcom.no] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 01:35 | |
| archels | so much of the ethical concerns about the | 01:48 |
|---|---|---|
| archels | feelings of the emulation miss the point that these things can be stopped, | 01:48 |
| archels | reversed and corrected at a later time. So any ethical cost to the | 01:48 |
| archels | emulation can be completely undone. | 01:48 |
| archels | that's an interesting thesis | 01:48 |
| archels | torture a virtual person for a decade, then just hit reset and it's all good? | 01:49 |
| -!- ebowden [~ebowden@1.152.140.125] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 01:57 | |
| -!- kuldeepdhaka [~kuldeepdh@unaffiliated/kuldeepdhaka] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 02:13 | |
| -!- EnLilaSko [EnLilaSko@unaffiliated/enlilasko] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 02:18 | |
| -!- kumavis [~kumavis@107-219-148-42.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 02:21 | |
| -!- mosasaur [~mosasaur@unaffiliated/mosasaur] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 02:24 | |
| -!- kumavis [~kumavis@107-219-148-42.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] | 02:26 | |
| FourFire | archels, well that depends doesn't it? | 02:30 |
| FourFire | what is the harm caused by torturing someone for ten years? | 02:31 |
| FourFire | is it mostly the initial pain, or the mentally scarred brain trying to function afterwards? | 02:31 |
| -!- mosasaur [~mosasaur@unaffiliated/mosasaur] has left ##hplusroadmap [] | 02:31 | |
| FourFire | if the latter, then i think you can say that it's "only a bit" immoral to torture a mind for ten subjective years, so long as you revert it | 02:32 |
| FourFire | but if it is the former, then I don't agree | 02:32 |
| archels | there's more than just those two options though | 02:36 |
| archels | for example, there are also the opportunities and subjective satisfaction that this treatment forecloses for the emulated animal/person | 02:37 |
| archels | and it's been argued that maltreatment of animals harms our own humanity (putting the actual harm to the actual animal in the second place) | 02:38 |
| FourFire | ok | 02:39 |
| FourFire | ideally, we could manufacture meat without any brains being involved | 02:40 |
| FourFire | I'm not sure what relevance improved meat and animal product production has to do with torturing minds for ten years | 02:40 |
| archels | oh sorry, this was in the context of research on virtual animals; with whole-brain emulation as the extreme case | 02:42 |
| FourFire | oh ok | 02:45 |
| -!- sapiosexual [~sapiosexu@d205-250-248-175.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] | 03:01 | |
| -!- ebowden [~ebowden@1.152.3.73] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 03:23 | |
| -!- ebowden [~ebowden@1.152.3.73] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 03:24 | |
| -!- kumavis [~kumavis@107-219-148-42.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 03:24 | |
| -!- ebowden [~ebowden@1.152.3.73] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 03:26 | |
| -!- kumavis [~kumavis@107-219-148-42.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] | 03:29 | |
| -!- kuldeepdhaka [~kuldeepdh@unaffiliated/kuldeepdhaka] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] | 03:41 | |
| -!- kuldeepdhaka_ [~kuldeepdh@unaffiliated/kuldeepdhaka] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 03:41 | |
| -!- kuldeepdhaka_ [~kuldeepdh@unaffiliated/kuldeepdhaka] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] | 04:01 | |
| -!- kuldeepdhaka__ [~kuldeepdh@unaffiliated/kuldeepdhaka] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 04:03 | |
| -!- kuldeepdhaka__ is now known as kuldeepdhaka | 04:06 | |
| -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 04:15 | |
| -!- poppingtonic [~poppingto@154.122.85.67] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 04:22 | |
| -!- HEx1 [~HEx@hexwab.plus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 04:26 | |
| -!- FourFire [~fourfire@207-222-15.connect.netcom.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] | 04:30 | |
| Burninate | paperbot http://www.sciencemag.org/content/early/2014/05/28/science.1253512 | 04:31 |
| paperbot | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/a05aa85e7c775fcaa96ed5c98de69c60.txt | 04:32 |
| Burninate | paperbot http://www.sciencemag.org/content/early/2014/05/28/science.1253512.full.pdf | 04:33 |
| paperbot | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/bfb313ff6ba3b31586bce0a27252da09.txt | 04:33 |
| -!- abetusk [~abe@c-71-192-163-80.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 04:37 | |
| -!- kuldeepdhaka [~kuldeepdh@unaffiliated/kuldeepdhaka] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] | 04:37 | |
| -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] | 04:38 | |
| -!- ebowden [~ebowden@1.152.3.73] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 04:38 | |
| -!- kuldeepdhaka_ [~kuldeepdh@unaffiliated/kuldeepdhaka] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 04:38 | |
| -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 04:39 | |
| -!- Auctus [~Auctus@unaffiliated/auctus] has left ##hplusroadmap ["What's this button do?"] | 05:08 | |
| -!- HEx1 [~HEx@hexwab.plus.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 05:08 | |
| -!- yorick [~yorick@oftn/member/yorick] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 05:35 | |
| -!- kuldeepdhaka_ [~kuldeepdh@unaffiliated/kuldeepdhaka] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] | 06:21 | |
| -!- realz [~pinky@unaffiliated/realazthat] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] | 06:21 | |
| -!- realz [~pinky@pool-74-108-116-26.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 06:25 | |
| -!- realz [~pinky@pool-74-108-116-26.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] | 06:25 | |
| -!- realz [~pinky@unaffiliated/realazthat] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 06:25 | |
| -!- kumavis [~kumavis@107-219-148-42.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 06:27 | |
| -!- realz [~pinky@unaffiliated/realazthat] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] | 06:30 | |
| -!- kumavis [~kumavis@107-219-148-42.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] | 06:31 | |
| -!- realz [~pinky@unaffiliated/realazthat] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 06:33 | |
| -!- kuldeepdhaka [~kuldeepdh@unaffiliated/kuldeepdhaka] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 06:37 | |
| -!- poppingtonic [~poppingto@154.122.85.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] | 06:58 | |
| -!- joepie91__ [5064fe45@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.100.254.69] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 07:19 | |
| -!- delinquentme [~dingo@74.61.157.78] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 07:28 | |
| -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@179.26.42.125] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 08:08 | |
| eudoxia | i think it's ethical to make copies of yourself to test various brain modifications and then off them | 08:09 |
| eudoxia | i mean they essentially agreed to it by being you ;) | 08:09 |
| -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@179.26.42.125] has quit [Client Quit] | 08:10 | |
| -!- delinquentme [~dingo@74.61.157.78] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] | 08:19 | |
| -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] | 08:23 | |
| -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 08:27 | |
| -!- kumavis [~kumavis@107-219-148-42.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 08:34 | |
| joepie91__ | if you were to have two identical clones of an individual, would their behaviour be deterministic; that is, would they behave identically assuming they physically start out in approximately the same place? | 08:55 |
| chris_99 | i think they've have to start out in exactly the same place | 08:57 |
| chris_99 | if you took two brains and fed the same sensory input though... | 08:58 |
| joepie91__ | chris_99: I'd be curious to know how a somewhat different starting position (assuming full clones incl. bodies), like, standing next to each other, would affect the decisionmaking and behaviour... | 09:00 |
| joepie91__ | intuitively, I'd expect it to cause a butterfly-effect-like behaviour | 09:00 |
| joepie91__ | or different in behaviour, rather | 09:00 |
| joepie91__ | where each diversion from the, well, sensory input of the other would drive the behaviour further apart | 09:00 |
| joepie91__ | in a snowball effect so to say | 09:00 |
| joepie91__ | but that's entirely unsubstantiated theoretical reasoning :P | 09:00 |
| chris_99 | i'd be curious what neuroscientists would say about it | 09:01 |
| joepie91__ | s/different/difference/ | 09:03 |
| joepie91__ | brain not fully operational yet, needs more food and/or caffeine | 09:03 |
| kanzure | if you start asking "if you go to sleep and someone exact replicas you, are you really ethical" then i'll ban you | 09:08 |
| kanzure | and everyone else for that matter | 09:08 |
| -!- sapiosexual [~sapiosexu@d205-250-248-175.bchsia.telus.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 09:09 | |
| kanzure | the lesswrong people see mto enjoy going around in endless circles on topics of that nature, have at it | 09:09 |
| kanzure | *seem to | 09:09 |
| chris_99 | http://www.vox.com/2014/5/19/5729182/the-case-for-raising-chickens-in-virtual-reality | 09:25 |
| chris_99 | personally i think that's just stupid | 09:25 |
| chris_99 | (in that they should just let them be free range) | 09:26 |
| joepie91__ | .. wat | 09:27 |
| joepie91__ | (the 'wat' being regarding the idea described in the article) | 09:27 |
| chris_99 | seems pretty crazy | 09:29 |
| -!- yashgaroth [~ffffff@cpe-76-167-105-53.san.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 09:29 | |
| -!- justanotheruser [~andrew@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 09:56 | |
| kanzure | .title http://www.ocpi.cu/ | 10:15 |
| yoleaux | Pagina Web de la Oficina Cubana de la Propiedad Industrial | 10:15 |
| chris_99 | what's a decent OSS cad program? | 10:58 |
| joepie91__ | chris_99: FreeCAD, supposedly | 11:00 |
| kanzure | brlcad and https://github.com/kanzure/python-brlcad | 11:00 |
| joepie91__ | (can't say I do any CAD work myself, so no idea if it's really as good as people tell me) | 11:00 |
| kanzure | freecad crashes every 10 seconds because opencascade is evil | 11:00 |
| kanzure | and their python bindings are broken (it works the wrong way: you must load freecad to use the freecad bindings? fuck that! might as well use pythonocc and bypass freecad) | 11:00 |
| chris_99 | i'll have a looky cheers guys | 11:01 |
| archels | joepie91__: yeah, of course the physical state of the clones would start to diverge after a Planck time or so | 11:06 |
| archels | only in a highly idealised, fully deterministic mathematical model would this be prevent | 11:07 |
| chris_99 | do neutrinos ever effect the brain? | 11:07 |
| archels | neutrinos very, very rarely interact with matter at all | 11:07 |
| chris_99 | yeah | 11:07 |
| chris_99 | but sometimes they do right | 11:07 |
| archels | sure, we can detect them after all | 11:09 |
| archels | but that requires a fairly massive detector and a lot of patience | 11:10 |
| chris_99 | mm | 11:10 |
| nshsome | neutrinos affect the brains having this conversaiton | 11:12 |
| nshsome | through mechanisms much more subtle than any conceived force-mediated particle interaction | 11:12 |
| kanzure | .title http://www.aripo.wipo.net/ | 11:35 |
| yoleaux | AFRICAN REGIONAL INDUSTRIAL PROPERTY ORGANIZATION | 11:35 |
| -!- FourFire [~fourfire@159.171.124.1] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 11:40 | |
| -!- justanotheruser [~andrew@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Quit: Reconnecting] | 11:44 | |
| -!- justanotheruser [~andrew@c-50-129-87-238.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 11:44 | |
| -!- justanotheruser [~andrew@c-50-129-87-238.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] | 11:45 | |
| -!- justanotheruser [~andrew@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 11:45 | |
| kanzure | .gc "toaster technology" | 12:00 |
| yoleaux | 11,800 (site), 14,000 (end), 201 (api) | 12:00 |
| kanzure | "Right, but can you point to where the patent system has actually created a problem for the open source hardware community yet?" | 12:04 |
| kanzure | man, for a mailing list called "open manufacturing", nobody seems to understand what "open source" is https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/openmanufacturing/vS4ju1VqXb0 | 12:18 |
| -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 12:42 | |
| -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Quit: Leaving] | 13:25 | |
| catern | kanzure: lots of people don't know what patents were originally, so your proposal just seems weird and arbitrary to them. if you explained the history first you'd do better | 13:39 |
| kanzure | even without the historical context, patents are still pretty weird | 13:42 |
| kanzure | why do they have anything to do with technology? it's such a silly idea | 13:42 |
| catern | typical argument is: because it's more fair to reward people who deserve it, and demonstrating some technology shows you deserve it | 13:44 |
| kanzure | technology just seems to be tacked on | 13:45 |
| kanzure | why not show you deserve it by doing a funny dance | 13:45 |
| catern | maybe this is more subtle and you're understanding something I'm not, because I don't really understand your reform proposal, but: because technology is important and we want to incentivize it? | 13:47 |
| catern | and we don't care about funny dances as much relative to technology | 13:47 |
| -!- cpopell is now known as cpopell`food | 13:47 | |
| seba- | if you look what was before patents | 13:48 |
| seba- | patents make sense | 13:48 |
| seba- | the only problem is that they are abusing patents now | 13:48 |
| kanzure | what do yo umean "patents make sense if you look what was before patents".. just because the previous system was shit does not give you the pass to propose a still shitty system. | 13:48 |
| seba- | before patents | 13:49 |
| seba- | people kept their know-how totally secret | 13:49 |
| seba- | and a lot of times knowledge was lots | 13:49 |
| seba- | because they died | 13:49 |
| kanzure | catern: it looks like the invention patents were literally just some shitty king's attempt to get out of trouble. so he picked something random and said "okay fine, now it's about technoloy". that doesn't mean that he actually studied whether or not it was a good idea re: innovation or incentives... | 13:49 |
| kanzure | *now it's about technology | 13:50 |
| kanzure | *you mean | 13:50 |
| kanzure | seba-: no, before patents there were books just like any other century | 13:56 |
| nmz787 | anyone here use this before? http://www.freerouting.net/ | 13:57 |
| FourFire | seba-, that still happens, do you know about "starlite" ? | 13:57 |
| nmz787 | it is what kicad tells users to use | 13:57 |
| FourFire | seba-, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/StarLite | 13:57 |
| nmz787 | first you have to export some file from your PCB layout, then open that (java applet), and let it run | 13:57 |
| nmz787 | "The router fits together with FreePCB, Kicad, gEDA, CadSoft-Eagle and all host PCB design software containing an interface to the Specctra or Electra autorouter." | 13:58 |
| nmz787 | huh, I guess this is the dude http://alfonswirtz.de/ | 13:58 |
| kanzure | paperbot: http://heinonline.org/HOL/LandingPage?handle=hein.journals/jpatos18&div=8&id=&page= | 14:04 |
| paperbot | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/2bdd604f90a7ffd08777a1185426d68d.txt | 14:04 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/Generally%20inconvenient:%20the%201624%20Statute%20of%20Monopolies%20as%20political%20compromise.pdf | 14:09 |
| kanzure | hahaha there was a monopoly granted for going into people's homes and digging for manure "but it had to be only between sunrise and sunset", (England ca. 1606) | 14:25 |
| seba- | FourFire what's with starlite? | 14:26 |
| kanzure | "There was also no successful legal challenge to the monopolistic trading corporations, and there were judicial statements in support of patents of invention.203 It is, therefore, possible that only illegal monopolies were contrary to law.204 This accords with the perspective of the mercantilists. For them, if a restraint was for the public benefit — for the common wealth — it was not an abusive monopoly.205 The lack of clarity around the ... | 14:33 |
| kanzure | ... phrases ‘new Manufactures’ and ‘monopoly’ could, therefore, be intentional. The broad thrust of the Statute of Monopolies, then, may be aimed at the general, and perhaps too much focus on the specific limitations of words in s 6 of the Act is counter to the intent of the drafters. | 14:33 |
| kanzure | "The public interest aspect of the test in the Statute of Monopolies is more evident in the final policy-focused phrase ‘generally inconvenient’. Again, there is no clear definition of this concept; however, different interpretations have been suggested. According to one commentator, the Commons found a patent inconvenient if the grant, ‘though clearly obnoxious or injurious to the commonwealth, could not be proved definitely ... | 14:34 |
| kanzure | ... illegal.’206" | 14:34 |
| FourFire | seba-, dude who invented it kept the secret for himself, and died with it | 14:34 |
| -!- EnLilaSko [EnLilaSko@unaffiliated/enlilasko] has quit [Quit: - nbs-irc 2.39 - www.nbs-irc.net -] | 14:35 | |
| kanzure | "Further, Coke himself, in his commentary on the Statute of Monopolies, stated that an invention was ‘inconvenient’, and therefore contrary to the Act, if it turned ‘many labouring men to idlenesse’.208 It is possible, then, that the ‘generally inconvenient’ test was intended to be a broad public benefit test209 — that is, if a patent for invention was not in the public interest (such as in terms of its effect on employment), ... | 14:35 |
| kanzure | ... then it would be contrary to the Act and, as a result, not granted.210" | 14:35 |
| seba- | FourFire, invented what | 14:35 |
| FourFire | Starlite | 14:36 |
| seba- | what's that | 14:36 |
| FourFire | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/StarLite | 14:37 |
| seba- | i don't see what was the innovation FourFire | 14:38 |
| -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] | 14:41 | |
| kanzure | the folklore surrounding patents is extremely dense considering the obviously-poorly-considered origins. and most of the folklore seems to have nothing to do with the original purpose or nature of patents (which hasn't changed, with the exception of how people discuss it). | 14:42 |
| kanzure | and also, it's interesting how quick people are to defend the purity of patent law, compared to the defense of other laws | 14:42 |
| seba- | purity? | 14:44 |
| seba- | tf | 14:44 |
| seba- | wtf | 14:44 |
| kanzure | yeah, a lot of people think patent law is rather pure | 14:45 |
| kanzure | untouchably righteous etc | 14:45 |
| FourFire | seba-, I'm not sure it was especially innovative, it was just a heat resistant material, but the point is that people still do that thing keeping knowledeg to themselves and then losing it from the doman of human knowledge once they die | 14:48 |
| seba- | what | 14:48 |
| seba- | that gives me some satellite station FourFire | 14:48 |
| FourFire | yeah, never mind | 14:48 |
| seba- | some radio | 14:48 |
| -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 14:48 | |
| FourFire | sorry http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starlite | 14:49 |
| seba- | interesting | 14:50 |
| seba- | but that's an anomaly | 14:50 |
| seba- | it was much more common before patents | 14:50 |
| FourFire | yeah I magine | 14:51 |
| kanzure | uh, you can still make inventions known without resorting to patents, or keeping it secret | 14:55 |
| kanzure | ugh | 14:55 |
| seba- | yes | 14:59 |
| seba- | you can | 14:59 |
| seba- | you just can't profit from them usually | 15:00 |
| kanzure | uh, you're allowed to | 15:02 |
| -!- FourFire [~fourfire@159.171.124.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] | 15:03 | |
| -!- delinquentme [~dingo@74.61.157.78] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 15:19 | |
| -!- justanotheruser [~andrew@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Quit: Reconnecting] | 15:21 | |
| -!- justanotheruser [~andrew@c-50-129-87-238.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 15:22 | |
| -!- justanotheruser [~andrew@c-50-129-87-238.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] | 15:22 | |
| -!- justanotheruser [~andrew@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 15:22 | |
| -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: realz | 15:26 | |
| -!- Netsplit over, joins: realz | 15:35 | |
| kanzure | "If you have a good transcript, you can temporarily upload the video to YouTube (mark it as private if you like, it only needs to be accessible to you) - then in the "Captions and Subtitles" options, upload the plain text transcript. YouTube will sync the transcript to the audio, (removing the ambiguity of it having to guess what is being said, as you're telling it that - so now it knows what words it's listening out for) and you can download ... | 15:36 |
| kanzure | ... the resulting automatically timed file as an SBV or SRT type file." | 15:36 |
| jrayhawk_ | huh, i am surprised there isn't an open source implementation of such a system | 15:45 |
| jrayhawk_ | maybe there are, like, six of them, all hidden away in doctoral theses somewhere | 15:46 |
| -!- yorick [~yorick@oftn/member/yorick] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 15:46 | |
| -!- delinquentme [~dingo@74.61.157.78] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] | 15:53 | |
| kanzure | "there is no evidence that Leibniz was ever granted a patent of nobility" oh right, patents were for nobility | 16:00 |
| -!- nshsome is now known as [nsh] | 16:00 | |
| -!- ebowden [~ebowden@1.152.60.70] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 16:18 | |
| -!- delinquentme [~dingo@74.61.157.78] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 16:19 | |
| dpk | you may be confusing patents with letters patent | 16:30 |
| dpk | wait, no you're mot | 16:31 |
| dpk | *not | 16:31 |
| dpk | that's the opposite of what you're doing | 16:31 |
| dpk | carry on | 16:31 |
| kanzure | your diligence is duly noted | 16:32 |
| -!- delinquentme [~dingo@74.61.157.78] has quit [Quit: Leaving] | 16:34 | |
| -!- AshleyWaffle [~waffle@gateway/tor-sasl/anastasiawyatt] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] | 16:36 | |
| -!- ParahSailin [~parahsail@unaffiliated/parahsailin] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] | 16:37 | |
| seba- | what | 16:37 |
| seba- | why are we even talking about patents | 16:37 |
| seba- | in the first place | 16:37 |
| seba- | kanzure, anyway my incubator worked well enough to grow lactobacillus | 16:38 |
| seba- | which was the control | 16:38 |
| seba- | the probiotic solution for cats had zero colonies haha | 16:38 |
| seba- | which was the point of the test | 16:38 |
| -!- ebowden [~ebowden@1.152.60.70] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 16:43 | |
| -!- ebowden [~ebowden@1.152.196.111] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 16:47 | |
| -!- AshleyWaffle [~waffle@gateway/tor-sasl/anastasiawyatt] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 16:53 | |
| -!- ParahSailin [~parahsail@unaffiliated/parahsailin] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 16:54 | |
| -!- snuffeluffegus [~John@homie-vserver314.dreamhost.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] | 16:55 | |
| -!- petrushka [~asakharov@24.60.79.55] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 16:58 | |
| kanzure | huh i forgot about this user http://mjr.iki.fi/ | 17:01 |
| kanzure | "Rentoutuakseni artikkelien lukemiseen ja kirjoittamiseen painottuvasta työstä tutkijakoulutettavana teen vapaamuotoista sukututkimusta ja luen hyvin sekalaista kirjallisuutta." | 17:01 |
| kanzure | alright that can't possibly be a language | 17:02 |
| seba- | why not | 17:03 |
| seba- | aaaaa | 17:03 |
| kanzure | because it would be too inconvenient | 17:04 |
| -!- ebowden [~ebowden@1.152.196.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] | 17:08 | |
| -!- gene_hacker [~chatzilla@c-24-20-19-199.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 17:24 | |
| kanzure | http://libswift.org/ is an interesting complement to http://serfdom.io/ | 17:33 |
| kanzure | http://www.cs.cornell.edu/~asdas/research/dsn02-swim.pdf | 17:34 |
| kanzure | http://www.cs.cornell.edu/home/rvr/papers/flowgossip.pdf | 17:34 |
| justanotheruser | kanzure: know anything about Kademlia? | 17:36 |
| kanzure | .wik kademlia | 17:37 |
| yoleaux | "Kademlia is a distributed hash table for decentralized peer-to-peer computer networks designed by Petar Maymounkov and David Mazières in 2002. It specifies the structure of the network and the exchange of information through node lookups. Kademlia nodes communicate among themselves using UDP." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kademlia | 17:37 |
| kanzure | nope | 17:37 |
| kanzure | justanotheruser: it's funny seeing clock's questions about bitcoin. i thought he knew these things. | 17:38 |
| justanotheruser | kanzure: have you talked to him before or something? | 17:38 |
| kanzure | he was in here a few days ago | 17:39 |
| kanzure | he's well known for ronja and other reasons | 17:39 |
| kanzure | http://ronja.twibright.com/ "Ronja is a free technology project for reliable optical data links with a current range of 1.4km and a communication speed of 10Mbps full duplex." | 17:39 |
| kanzure | "Ronja (Reasonable Optical Near Joint Access) is an User Controlled Technology (like Free Software) project of optical point-to-point data link. The device has 1.4km range and has stable 10Mbps full duplex data rate. Ronja is an optoelectronic device you can mount on your house and connect your PC, home or office network with other networks. Or you can use it as a general purpose wireless link for building any other networking project." | 17:39 |
| seba- | hm | 17:43 |
| seba- | http://lea.hamradio.si/~s53mv/ | 17:43 |
| seba- | nbp | 17:43 |
| kanzure | .title | 17:43 |
| yoleaux | Matjaz S53MV (lea.hamradio.si) | 17:43 |
| seba- | wireless link 10 mbit theoretical | 17:43 |
| seba- | they have it | 17:43 |
| seba- | over 80 km | 17:43 |
| seba- | works nicely | 17:43 |
| seba- | :D | 17:43 |
| seba- | also you have gps/glonass from discretes | 17:43 |
| seba- | lots of avionics | 17:43 |
| seba- | etc. | 17:44 |
| justanotheruser | kanzure: so.. high speed wireless communication? | 17:44 |
| kanzure | justanotheruser: open source hardware stuff | 17:44 |
| kanzure | hmm http://lea.hamradio.si/~s53mv/zifssb/block.html | 17:46 |
| kanzure | .title | 17:46 |
| yoleaux | Design of zero-IF SSB transceivers | 17:46 |
| justanotheruser | hmm | 17:46 |
| seba- | they've made a network here | 17:47 |
| seba- | works nice | 17:47 |
| seba- | you can get internet for free | 17:47 |
| seba- | if you care to build the hw | 17:47 |
| kanzure | "A third book on amateur satellite activities is certainly missing. There are several reasons. The most important is the total failure of the AMSAT-P3D satellite due to several independent design flaws. Free access to analog and/or digital weather-satellite images is no longer available: except for the NOAA polar orbiters, data from all other weather satellites is now being encrypted. Professional satellite point-to-point links and broadcast ... | 17:48 |
| kanzure | ... are being replaced by optical fiber. The only remaining satellites with free access seem to be the GPS and GLONASS navigation satellites." | 17:48 |
| kanzure | http://lea.hamradio.si/~s53mv/archive/archive.html | 17:48 |
| kanzure | "Weather-satellite image scan converter, TV monitor output, 128x128 resolution" http://lea.hamradio.si/~s53mv/archive/a031.pdf | 17:48 |
| -!- gene_hacker [~chatzilla@c-24-20-19-199.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] | 17:53 | |
| -!- gene_hacker [~chatzilla@c-24-20-19-199.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 17:53 | |
| kanzure | electronic antennae beam steering for amateur satellite attitude stabilization http://lea.hamradio.si/~s53mv/archive/p082.pdf | 17:53 |
| gene_hacker | it may not be broadcast over an unencrypted downlink, but it's interesting nonetheless: http://eol.jsc.nasa.gov/HDEV/ | 17:53 |
| kanzure | "A rather simple solution for amateur satellites with global (hemispherical) coverage in a high Earth orbit is a retrodirective transponder. A retrodirective transponder uses similar antenna arrays for signal reception and transmission. The individual transponders are operated coherently with the same local oscillator and are connected to the antenna arrays so that the signal is transmitted back exactly in the same direction from where it came." | 17:54 |
| gene_hacker | sadly this didn't work: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/zacinaction/kicksat-your-personal-spacecraft-in-space/posts/843807 | 17:56 |
| kanzure | was that the one that blew up recently | 17:56 |
| -!- gene_hacker [~chatzilla@c-24-20-19-199.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] | 17:57 | |
| kanzure | maybe that was cubesat.. hm. | 17:57 |
| -!- gene_hacker [~chatzilla@c-24-20-19-199.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 17:57 | |
| -!- gene_hacker [~chatzilla@c-24-20-19-199.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] | 18:01 | |
| -!- gene_hacker [~chatzilla@c-24-20-19-199.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 18:01 | |
| kanzure | gene_hacker: cheap home semiconductor fabrication links please? i'm not sure cmos is the cheapest, and a lot of the organic transistor stuff is flimsy.. | 18:05 |
| -!- lichen [~lichen@c-50-139-11-6.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 18:12 | |
| nmz787 | got kicad to compile on windows with minimal messing around (though I had to do a little) | 18:17 |
| gene_hacker | oh that's easy, just live in space and work outside | 18:22 |
| kanzure | huh | 18:23 |
| gradstudentbot | His lab is so awkward. | 18:25 |
| kanzure | .title http://cmosfold.blogspot.com/2012/04/xilinx-xc4413.html | 18:27 |
| yoleaux | CMOSfold: Xilinx XC4413 | 18:27 |
| kanzure | "This is a mask programmed version of the XC4013/E FPGA. I didn't realize Xilinx had ever made mask programmable FPGAs. Maybe popular for reducing cost by removing the external flash or increased reliability for aero/mil/medical. " | 18:27 |
| kanzure | nice blog | 18:28 |
| kanzure | also, http://siliconpr0n.org/archive/doku.php?id=true_mask_art | 18:28 |
| kanzure | dogbert? http://siliconpr0n.org/archive/doku.php?id=azonenberg:myricom:xbar | 18:28 |
| kanzure | ah it even says so. confirmed dogbert. | 18:28 |
| -!- gene_hacker [~chatzilla@c-24-20-19-199.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] | 18:31 | |
| -!- gene_hacker [~chatzilla@c-24-20-19-199.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 18:31 | |
| -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 18:34 | |
| kanzure | 17:52 < azonenberg> A paper from SDSU demonstrates a UV direct write laser lithography system for under $1K | 18:35 |
| kanzure | 17:52 < azonenberg> with better than 5um resolution across a large area | 18:35 |
| kanzure | 17:55 < azonenberg> That paper quoted 2um "easily" | 18:35 |
| jrayhawk_ | http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-ci0KqN3i94k/TZQNJq5eLLI/AAAAAAAAAIg/8RttMD0yYlA/s640/110331_Demons_of_Stupidity_800x1022_FULL.JPG | 18:36 |
| kanzure | .title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPlLp1OHiio | 18:36 |
| yoleaux | Maskless photolithography by holographic projection | 18:36 |
| -!- sapiosexual [~sapiosexu@d205-250-248-175.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] | 18:36 | |
| -!- gene_hacker [~chatzilla@c-24-20-19-199.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] | 18:49 | |
| -!- gene_hacker [~chatzilla@c-24-20-19-199.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 18:49 | |
| kanzure | hm i can't actually find that paper | 18:49 |
| kanzure | there's a one-page pdf file on diyhpl.us but i'm not convinced that's the content azonenberg was referring to | 18:49 |
| -!- gene_hacker [~chatzilla@c-24-20-19-199.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] | 18:51 | |
| kanzure | is this just a one page file? http://ma.ecsdl.org/content/MA2012-02/59/3990.abstract | 18:51 |
| -!- gene_hacker [~chatzilla@c-24-20-19-199.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 18:51 | |
| kanzure | ah: "Meeting Abstracts, 3990-3990" damn | 18:52 |
| kanzure | "Jeri Ellsworth has a FEOL process for doing transistors working at macro-scale without lithography. If you can do direct-write exposure, you can buy standard photoresist and developer solutions and do lithography. Jeri's stuff used conductive epoxy and regular fine-gauge hookup wire." | 18:56 |
| kanzure | "Deep UV photoresists are not sold to the general public. 193nm is the standard wavelength for most mass production afaik. You can buy them if you're Intel, by the 55 gallon drum." | 18:57 |
| kanzure | "Thats the main problem with direct laser. Availability of the resist. Shipley 1813 can be bought by the quart from fisher scientific for $372 for example. Then you can get HMDS from SPI supplies for $12 for 30ml or $15 for 100ml but the larger volume needs hazmat shipping. injectorall.com sells photoresist in small volumes intended for PCBs" | 18:58 |
| -!- Guest87321 [~abe@208.184.72.78] has quit [Quit: Leaving] | 18:59 | |
| kanzure | does anyone remember what azonenberg's hold up was | 19:00 |
| kanzure | did he graduate and then lose interest? | 19:00 |
| -!- gene_hacker [~chatzilla@c-24-20-19-199.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] | 19:01 | |
| kanzure | 12:14 < azonenberg> I've been away from this project for a while due to lack of time and funding | 19:01 |
| kanzure | 12:14 < azonenberg> once i have a real job and am out of grad school i plan to get back to it | 19:01 |
| kanzure | aha | 19:01 |
| -!- gene_hacker [~chatzilla@c-24-20-19-199.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 19:01 | |
| ParahSailin | is omni the main treadmill startup for vr? | 19:01 |
| kanzure | hm, "microfluidics vs mesofluidics" is the same thing as "make a maskless photography setup for electronics vs just use lots of breadboards and commodity electronics" | 19:04 |
| kanzure | although microfluidics is way messier and prone to failure, i think | 19:05 |
| gene_hacker | commodity electronics are really cheap | 19:07 |
| kanzure | gene_hacker: i pulled back from doing dna synthesis via microfluidics because it multiplies the number of variables that can go wrong and require tweaking (means more prototyping etc), compared to conventional dna synthesizers | 19:08 |
| kanzure | since it's already a 12-step chemical formula adding all sorts of other unknown-reliability components is detrimental to getting something that works | 19:09 |
| kanzure | (12 steps that require tweaking, yield management, etc) | 19:09 |
| gene_hacker | isn't venter doing the same? | 19:10 |
| kanzure | specifically? | 19:10 |
| gene_hacker | using rooms full of old dna synthesizers to make artifical chromosomes? | 19:10 |
| kanzure | oh, probably | 19:11 |
| kanzure | maybe he ordered the dna from a company though | 19:11 |
| kanzure | and they have the rooms of machines | 19:11 |
| ParahSailin | some guy made a yeast chromosome using rooms full of undergrads | 19:11 |
| gene_hacker | which is why he hasn't made synthia yet | 19:11 |
| ParahSailin | paperbot: http://www.sciencemag.org/content/344/6179/55 | 19:12 |
| paperbot | http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1126%2Fscience.1249252 | 19:12 |
| gene_hacker | so what about that photogenerated acid microfluidics approach? | 19:12 |
| kanzure | link? | 19:13 |
| gene_hacker | you don't use complicated valving, all you need is a specially shaped microfluidics chip you hook up to a regular DNA synthesizer | 19:13 |
| gene_hacker | I'm sure you have it somewhere | 19:13 |
| gene_hacker | and something to produce structured UV light | 19:14 |
| kanzure | this is not ringing a bell. so you wire up the microfluidic chip to a conventional synthesizer? for what | 19:14 |
| gene_hacker | pumping stuff through the chip | 19:14 |
| kanzure | i think there was one that was continuous flow | 19:15 |
| gene_hacker | http://www.lcsciences.com/wp-content/uploads/picoarray.png | 19:15 |
| gene_hacker | this guy | 19:15 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/microfluidics/Synthesis%20-%20Microfluidic%20PicoArray%20synthesis%20of%20oligodeoxynucleotides%20and%20simultaneous%20assembling%20of%20multiple%20DNA%20sequences%20(10%20kb).pdf | 19:16 |
| gene_hacker | from what I understand it doesn't require that much reagents | 19:18 |
| kanzure | hmm well you're right this doesn't use valves | 19:18 |
| -!- gene_hacker [~chatzilla@c-24-20-19-199.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] | 19:18 | |
| -!- gene_hacker [~chatzilla@c-24-20-19-199.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 19:18 | |
| kanzure | 30mers.. huh. | 19:19 |
| kanzure | this is not as bad as i remember it | 19:19 |
| kanzure | so why was it hooked up to that expedite 8909 dna synthesizer | 19:20 |
| -!- gene_hacker [~chatzilla@c-24-20-19-199.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] | 19:22 | |
| -!- gene_hacker [~chatzilla@c-24-20-19-199.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 19:22 | |
| kanzure | "The synthesis process was carried out on a regular DNA synthesizer that is equipped with a programmable digital light projector as described previously (17, 20, 21). The PicoArray microfluidic device was connected to the synthesizer in the same way as a regular synthesis column and the synthesis was similar to the process that was described previously (17)." | 19:23 |
| kanzure | hey i was published in this journal once. cool. | 19:24 |
| kanzure | i don't get it. what's the machine for? | 19:26 |
| gene_hacker | pumping stuff through the chip | 19:28 |
| kanzure | then why not just use a syringe pump? | 19:33 |
| kanzure | expedite 8909 manual http://tools.lifetechnologies.com/content/sfs/manuals/cms_041567.pdf | 19:33 |
| nmz787 | presumably for metering and sequencing the reagents | 19:34 |
| kanzure | ""Each reagent is delivered as fixed volume pulses by individual fluid injectors. Therefore, consistent reagent volumes are delivered to the reaction columns. This enables accurate monitoring of reagent usage without calibrating the flow rates for each reagent. There are two valve trains (see Figure 1-3) that deliver reagents to the reaction columns. • The A-train delivers the deblocking, washing, capping and oxidation reagents. • The ... | 19:35 |
| kanzure | ... B-train delivers the activation and coupling reagents." | 19:35 |
| kanzure | got it | 19:35 |
| kanzure | so, lazy | 19:35 |
| kanzure | i wonder if the volume is user-selectable | 19:36 |
| gene_hacker | yup | 19:38 |
| kanzure | "Pulse volume: 15.5 microliters +- 20%" | 19:39 |
| nmz787 | that's huge | 19:39 |
| nmz787 | in terms of what's needed for genes/operons | 19:39 |
| kanzure | so they were flowing 15.5 microliters through this microfluidic device? i wonder whta pressure | 19:40 |
| kanzure | *what | 19:40 |
| -!- gene_hacker [~chatzilla@c-24-20-19-199.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] | 19:46 | |
| -!- gene_hacker [~chatzilla@c-24-20-19-199.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 19:46 | |
| kanzure | well anyway, avoiding valves is a good idea | 19:48 |
| kanzure | it significantly simplifies the device | 19:48 |
| kanzure | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valvetrain | 19:50 |
| kanzure | hmm https://www.google.com/search?q=valve+train&num=100&safe=off&tbm=isch&tbo=u | 19:52 |
| -!- kuldeepdhaka [~kuldeepdh@unaffiliated/kuldeepdhaka] has quit [Quit: Leaving] | 19:55 | |
| gene_hacker | a 60 Hz DNA synthesizer? | 20:04 |
| kanzure | also, it's interesting to note that a good maskless photolithography system can probably be reused for dna synthesis, microfluidics, and microelectronics | 20:06 |
| gene_hacker | and 3d printing! | 20:06 |
| kanzure | very tiny 3d printing perhaps | 20:07 |
| kanzure | well, larger too, maybe you just remove a lense or something? | 20:07 |
| gene_hacker | well if you have a system that can put out a lot of structured UV light, you can make precision investment casting molds | 20:07 |
| gene_hacker | of course, if you want them to be any good you can't use STL | 20:08 |
| kanzure | what's the advantage of any of the bluray led systems compared to the micromirror array approach | 20:08 |
| -!- gene_hacker [~chatzilla@c-24-20-19-199.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] | 20:12 | |
| -!- gene_hacker [~chatzilla@c-24-20-19-199.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 20:12 | |
| gene_hacker | ??? | 20:16 |
| kanzure | we were thinking of building an xy stage with bluray led- http://diyhpl.us/laser_etcher/laser_etcher/ | 20:17 |
| gene_hacker | bluray laser diodes scan slower | 20:17 |
| gene_hacker | plus, you can | 20:17 |
| gene_hacker | 't get as deep into the UV spectrum with them | 20:17 |
| kanzure | i just don't remember why we weren't focusing on dmd though | 20:17 |
| gene_hacker | You have to extensively modify a projector | 20:18 |
| -!- gene_hacker [~chatzilla@c-24-20-19-199.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] | 20:19 | |
| -!- gene_hacker [~chatzilla@c-24-20-19-199.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 20:19 | |
| kanzure | oh right, it was going to be used for cutting | 20:19 |
| gene_hacker | or get a DMD devkit from TI | 20:19 |
| -!- gene_hacker [~chatzilla@c-24-20-19-199.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] | 20:22 | |
| -!- gene_hacker [~chatzilla@c-24-20-19-199.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 20:22 | |
| -!- AshleyWaffle [~waffle@gateway/tor-sasl/anastasiawyatt] has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] | 20:24 | |
| -!- joepie91__ [5064fe45@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.100.254.69] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] | 20:24 | |
| kanzure | well you can also cut out microelectronic circuits too. so you lose out on dna synthesis and throughput/parallelism | 20:25 |
| -!- gene_hacker [~chatzilla@c-24-20-19-199.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] | 20:28 | |
| -!- gene_hacker [~chatzilla@c-24-20-19-199.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 20:28 | |
| -!- AshleyWaffle [~waffle@gateway/tor-sasl/anastasiawyatt] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 20:31 | |
| -!- gene_hacker [~chatzilla@c-24-20-19-199.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] | 20:42 | |
| -!- gene_hacker [~chatzilla@c-24-20-19-199.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 20:42 | |
| -!- ebowden [~ebowden@1.154.195.248] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 20:43 | |
| -!- ebowden [~ebowden@1.154.195.248] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 20:44 | |
| -!- andytoshi [~andytoshi@unaffiliated/andytoshi] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] | 20:44 | |
| -!- nsh [~nsh@wikipedia/nsh] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] | 20:50 | |
| kanzure | oh hm "The first integrated circuits had features of 200 micrometres which were printed using contact lithography. This technique was popular in the 1960s until it was substituted by proximity printing, where a gap is introduced between the photomask and the substrate. Proximity printing had poorer resolution than contact printing (due to the gap allowing more diffraction to occur) but generated far less defects. The resolution was sufficient ... | 21:01 |
| kanzure | ... for down to 2 micrometre production. In 1978, the step-and-repeat projection system appeared. [1] The platform gained wide acceptance due to the reduction of the mask image and is still in use today." | 21:01 |
| kanzure | "The chief advantage of contact lithography is the elimination of the need for complex projection optics between object and image. The resolution limit in today's projection optical systems originates from the finite size of the final imaging lens and its distance from the image plane. More specifically, the projection optics can only capture a limited spatial frequency spectrum from the object (photomask). Contact printing has no such ... | 21:03 |
| kanzure | ... resolution limit but is sensitive to the presence of defects on the mask or on the substrate." | 21:03 |
| kanzure | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contact_lithography | 21:03 |
| -!- gene_hacker [~chatzilla@c-24-20-19-199.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] | 21:06 | |
| -!- gene_hacker [~chatzilla@c-24-20-19-199.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 21:06 | |
| -!- nsh [~nsh@wikipedia/nsh] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 21:08 | |
| -!- nsh [~nsh@wikipedia/nsh] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] | 21:08 | |
| -!- ebowden [~ebowden@58.171.101.63] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 21:08 | |
| -!- nsh [~nsh@wikipedia/nsh] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 21:08 | |
| -!- nsh [~nsh@wikipedia/nsh] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] | 21:08 | |
| -!- nsh [~nsh@wikipedia/nsh] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 21:09 | |
| -!- nsh [~nsh@wikipedia/nsh] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] | 21:09 | |
| kanzure | huh, moore's law was originally 12 months | 21:09 |
| -!- nsh [~nsh@wikipedia/nsh] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 21:09 | |
| -!- nsh [~nsh@wikipedia/nsh] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] | 21:09 | |
| -!- nsh [~nsh@wikipedia/nsh] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 21:10 | |
| -!- nsh [~nsh@wikipedia/nsh] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] | 21:10 | |
| -!- nsh [~nsh@wikipedia/nsh] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 21:11 | |
| -!- nsh [~nsh@wikipedia/nsh] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] | 21:11 | |
| -!- nsh [~nsh@wikipedia/nsh] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 21:12 | |
| -!- nsh [~nsh@wikipedia/nsh] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] | 21:12 | |
| -!- nsh [~nsh@wikipedia/nsh] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 21:12 | |
| -!- nsh [~nsh@wikipedia/nsh] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] | 21:12 | |
| -!- nsh [~nsh@wikipedia/nsh] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 21:13 | |
| -!- nsh [~nsh@wikipedia/nsh] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] | 21:13 | |
| -!- nsh [~nsh@wikipedia/nsh] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 21:13 | |
| -!- nsh [~nsh@wikipedia/nsh] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] | 21:14 | |
| -!- nsh [~nsh@wikipedia/nsh] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 21:14 | |
| -!- nsh [~nsh@wikipedia/nsh] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] | 21:14 | |
| -!- nsh [~nsh@host217-43-193-138.range217-43.btcentralplus.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 21:15 | |
| -!- nsh [~nsh@host217-43-193-138.range217-43.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Changing host] | 21:15 | |
| -!- nsh [~nsh@wikipedia/nsh] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 21:15 | |
| -!- nsh [~nsh@wikipedia/nsh] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] | 21:15 | |
| -!- nsh [~nsh@wikipedia/nsh] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 21:15 | |
| -!- nsh [~nsh@wikipedia/nsh] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] | 21:15 | |
| -!- ebowden [~ebowden@58.171.101.63] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 21:22 | |
| -!- ebowden [~ebowden@101.172.122.116] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 21:22 | |
| -!- gene_hacker [~chatzilla@c-24-20-19-199.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] | 21:23 | |
| -!- gene_hacker [~chatzilla@c-24-20-19-199.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 21:23 | |
| -!- ebowden [~ebowden@101.172.122.116] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 21:26 | |
| -!- sapiosexual [~sapiosexu@d205-250-248-175.bchsia.telus.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 21:29 | |
| kanzure | "Thermopneumatic microvalve: control liquid in a sealed cavity is expanded by thermal power of resistive heaters. Temperature and actuation force can be specified by appropriate choice of the control liquid." | 21:40 |
| kanzure | "Performance of reswood microvalve: .... flow rate 50 ml/min water @ 20 psi, supply presure <40 psi, response time ~ 1000 ms, power consumption ~ 1 W, acceptable chemicals: aceton, octane, methanol, HCL, NaOH" | 21:41 |
| kanzure | oh.. http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/microfluidics/Review%20-%20Microvalves.pdf | 21:42 |
| -!- gene_hacker [~chatzilla@c-24-20-19-199.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] | 21:47 | |
| -!- gene_hacker [~chatzilla@c-24-20-19-199.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 21:47 | |
| -!- yashgaroth [~ffffff@cpe-76-167-105-53.san.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] | 21:53 | |
| -!- sheena [~home@d154-20-226-28.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] | 21:53 | |
| -!- HEx1 [~HEx@hexwab.plus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] | 22:05 | |
| -!- sheena [~home@d154-20-226-28.bchsia.telus.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 22:23 | |
| -!- gene_hacker [~chatzilla@c-24-20-19-199.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] | 22:41 | |
| -!- sapiosexual [~sapiosexu@d205-250-248-175.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] | 22:41 | |
| -!- gene_hacker [~chatzilla@c-24-20-19-199.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 22:41 | |
| -!- sapiosexual [~sapiosexu@d205-250-248-175.bchsia.telus.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 22:46 | |
| -!- delinquentme [~dingo@74.61.157.78] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 22:50 | |
| -!- Viper168_ [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 22:50 | |
| kanzure | "Part of the high cost of mobile delivery of last mile services is the requirement for this heavy infrastructure to service a small number of people." | 22:51 |
| kanzure | is this another case of people thinking you need to pay $200,000 for some shitty "capital" equipment | 22:51 |
| -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] | 22:52 | |
| nmz787 | openspectrometer 0.1 on oshpark is $99 for 3 boards | 22:55 |
| nmz787 | i need to work on it some more, but i think I can probably get the sq inches down to about 80 or 90% of that | 22:56 |
| nmz787 | so a little cheaper | 22:56 |
| kanzure | it's too bad that a lot of our stuff is optics limited | 22:59 |
| kanzure | i don't want to be grinding lenses for the rest of my life, fuck that? | 22:59 |
| kanzure | actually i haven't seen many alternatives to glass lenses | 23:03 |
| kanzure | besides vague metamaterial things | 23:03 |
| kanzure | oh yeah and fluidic lenses | 23:03 |
| nmz787 | diffractive optics | 23:04 |
| nmz787 | mirrors | 23:04 |
| gene_hacker | IEEE gets it: | 23:04 |
| gene_hacker | http://spectrum.ieee.org/aerospace/space-flight/robots-will-pave-the-way-to-mars | 23:04 |
| gene_hacker | pinhole lenses | 23:05 |
| gene_hacker | that weird diffraction pattern lense thing | 23:05 |
| gene_hacker | an aerosol floating in space: http://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/files/Quadrelli_2012_PhI_OrbitingRainbows_.pdf | 23:08 |
| gene_hacker | ^but that's really just for imaging and not image forming | 23:08 |
| kanzure | well i'm also thinking of scenarios like: microscopy, routing laser beams around, optical holography, optical tweezer stuff, etc | 23:09 |
| kanzure | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thin-film_optics | 23:10 |
| kanzure | maybe dendrimers | 23:12 |
| gene_hacker | Well for most of that I think you need a spatial light modulator | 23:14 |
| gene_hacker | which you probably have in front of you | 23:14 |
| -!- strangewarp [~strangewa@c-67-176-51-230.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] | 23:14 | |
| gene_hacker | it's basically just a glorified see through LCD screen | 23:15 |
| kanzure | is that enough for magnification and projection | 23:16 |
| -!- strangewarp [~strangewa@c-67-176-51-230.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 23:17 | |
| gene_hacker | no, you still need some fancy glass optics | 23:17 |
| gene_hacker | but it's what you need for holography and optical tweezers | 23:17 |
| kanzure | "Fabrication of continuous-relief micro-optical elements by direct laser writing in photoresists" | 23:18 |
| kanzure | "A laser writing system for the fabrication of continuous-relief micro-optical elements in photoresist is described. The technology enables a wide range of planar micro-optical elements to be fabricated and replicated into polymer film using Ni shims electroformed from the photo-resist originals. The advantages and limitations of laser writing technology for micro-optics fabrication are discussed. Examples of fabricated micro-optical elements ... | 23:18 |
| gene_hacker | for magnification, you can probably get a microscope off ebay | 23:18 |
| kanzure | ... include Fresnel microlenses and microlens arrays, kinoforms, and other continuous-relief phase elements." | 23:18 |
| kanzure | paperbot: http://spie.org/Publications/Journal/10.1117/12.179892 | 23:18 |
| paperbot | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/fca8eabbc88fb16dbdf2960c1a4df67.txt | 23:18 |
| kanzure | planar micro-optics sounds nice | 23:18 |
| gradstudentbot | Friends don't let friends go to super school. | 23:19 |
| gene_hacker | microlenses are fucking cool | 23:19 |
| gene_hacker | They're what you need to make augmented reality contacts | 23:20 |
| -!- strangewarp [~strangewa@c-67-176-51-230.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] | 23:26 | |
| -!- delinquentme [~dingo@74.61.157.78] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] | 23:27 | |
| -!- delinquentme [~dingo@74.61.157.78] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 23:31 | |
| kanzure | "A recent prior work (2007) demonstrated that a quasi-periodic array of nanoholes, in a metal screen, were able to focus the optical energy of a plane wave to form subwavelength spots (hot spots). The distances for the spots was a few tens of wavelengths on the other side of the array, or, in other words, opposite the side of the incident plane wave. The quasi-periodic array of nanoholes functioned as a light concentrator.[54]" | 23:33 |
| -!- strangewarp [~strangewa@c-67-176-51-230.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 23:37 | |
| kanzure | "Direct write of optical diffractive elements and planar waveguides with a digital micromirror device based UV photoplotter" | 23:41 |
| kanzure | http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00339-010-6054-9 "This work describes how the size and shape of an incident laser beam can be dynamically controlled in real time with the use of a digital micromirror device (DMD), resulting in laser-printed functional nanomaterials with geometries identical to those of the projected beam." | 23:42 |
| kanzure | paperbot: | 23:42 |
| kanzure | paperbot: http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00339-010-6054-9 | 23:42 |
| paperbot | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/Laser%20forward%20transfer%20based%20on%20a%20spatial%20light%20modulator.pdf | 23:42 |
| -!- sheena [~home@d154-20-226-28.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] | 23:46 | |
| kanzure | oh i guess that makes sense "X-ray holographic microscopy using photoresists", http://xrm.phys.northwestern.edu/research/pdf_papers/1990/jacobsen_josa_1990.pdf | 23:47 |
| -!- sheena [~home@d154-20-226-28.bchsia.telus.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 23:48 | |
| -!- sheena [~home@d154-20-226-28.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] | 23:53 | |
| delinquentme | learning about major histocompatibility complex | 23:54 |
| delinquentme | woooooo | 23:54 |
| --- Log closed Mon Jun 02 00:00:08 2014 | ||
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.15.0.dev0 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!
