| --- Log opened Wed Jun 11 00:00:14 2014 | ||
| --- Day changed Wed Jun 11 2014 | ||
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| nmz787 | umm | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| fenn | sayonara nmz787_i | 00:00 |
| nmz787 | yeah f that guy | 00:00 |
| fenn | order of magnitude calculation is a well respected tradition in physics and engineering | 00:01 |
| kanzure | estimation is much harder to do when your entire product is based on a giant black box (some commodity microscope with poor spec sheets) | 00:01 |
| nmz787 | no i'm not against estimation, but i don't want to spend 5 years on a brlcad estimation | 00:01 |
| gradstudentbot | Can I get my own desk? | 00:01 |
| kanzure | well, none of these other people did estimates either, and they ended up with microscopes that are not even micro-related | 00:02 |
| nmz787 | but they also have papers we're referring to with images of 10 micron lines or whatever | 00:02 |
| kanzure | hm? | 00:02 |
| nmz787 | the DMD microfluidics, laser-traced microfluidics | 00:02 |
| kanzure | we haven't referred to any of those for any of this | 00:03 |
| kanzure | "just get some gears" | 00:03 |
| nmz787 | that blu-ray head on custom CNC paper | 00:03 |
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| nmz787 | we did like a day or two ago | 00:03 |
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| nmz787 | pretty much same idea/conversation | 00:03 |
| kanzure | show me their BOM | 00:03 |
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| nmz787 | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/High%20resolution,%20low%20cost%20laser%20lithography%20using%20a%20Blu-ray%20optical%20head%20assembly.pdf | 00:05 |
| nmz787 | idk is it in there or not? | 00:05 |
| nmz787 | "The cost of the system, excluding the motion stages, is less than | 00:06 |
| nmz787 | $100." | 00:06 |
| nmz787 | The cost of the system, excluding the motion stages, is less than | 00:06 |
| nmz787 | $100 | 00:06 |
| nmz787 | The cost of the system, excluding the motion stages, is less than | 00:06 |
| nmz787 | apparently copy doesnt work on that | 00:06 |
| fenn | i thought you were just repeating for emphasis | 00:07 |
| nmz787 | nobody uses BOM sections anymore | 00:07 |
| fenn | then "everybody" is a useless fucktard | 00:08 |
| nmz787 | i actually lost points for having a for-loop like structure for some chem paper i wrote a few months ago for a class | 00:08 |
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| kanzure | well stop going to class | 00:08 |
| fenn | "here's some thing, lol have fun reverse engineering our blurry photographs" | 00:08 |
| nmz787 | where i basically said, repeat steps 1-10 using the subsequent reaction mixes in table ABC | 00:08 |
| nmz787 | or something like that | 00:08 |
| nmz787 | he was like 'that isn't clear' | 00:09 |
| fenn | there's a difference between pedantry and replicability | 00:10 |
| nmz787 | The cost of the system, excluding the motion stages, is less than | 00:10 |
| nmz787 | fuck | 00:10 |
| nmz787 | i'd copied and pasted this to chrome | 00:10 |
| fenn | why even publish a paper like this if you don't include a BOM though | 00:10 |
| nmz787 | NLS4-2.5-16-1 | 00:10 |
| nmz787 | no price listed | 00:10 |
| nmz787 | on their page | 00:10 |
| nmz787 | well its buried | 00:11 |
| kanzure | so they have a diffraction grating, cube beam splitter, collimator lens, reflecting mirror, turning mirror, mounted photodiode, an LCD (for correcting aberration), an objective lens, tilt-actuated lens... there's no way this cost only $100, fuck these fuckholes. | 00:11 |
| nmz787 | in the "Direct laser write experimental setup" section | 00:11 |
| nmz787 | nah dude | 00:11 |
| nmz787 | that's in the bluray optical sled | 00:12 |
| nmz787 | that's the beauty | 00:12 |
| nmz787 | billions of engineering across the globe already | 00:12 |
| nmz787 | in every fry's or bestbuy or random electronics bodega | 00:12 |
| kanzure | this isn't just a bluray | 00:12 |
| nmz787 | yeah, fig 1 | 00:12 |
| nmz787 | top view of sf-aw210 optical head schematic | 00:12 |
| nmz787 | that's all in a unit the size of a matchbox or smaller | 00:13 |
| kanzure | okay great.. where's the parts for the camera viewer. | 00:13 |
| nmz787 | they don't mention a cmarea | 00:13 |
| nmz787 | camera | 00:13 |
| fenn | i've never taken apart a blu-ray drive; is all that stuff really in there? | 00:13 |
| nmz787 | well you can't really see it | 00:13 |
| fenn | the aluminum frame with the various magical crystals and motors | 00:14 |
| nmz787 | its all in a glued up/sealed matchbox size thing | 00:14 |
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| nmz787 | fig 2 shows it | 00:14 |
| fenn | or are those diodes | 00:14 |
| nmz787 | fig 2 (a) | 00:14 |
| fenn | yeah i'm looking at it | 00:14 |
| nmz787 | even a dvd/cd drive looks similar | 00:15 |
| nmz787 | two lasers, idk about LCD... but like 4 or more photodiodes | 00:15 |
| nmz787 | buncha optics | 00:15 |
| nmz787 | all standarized for /some/ standard spot size and shape | 00:15 |
| fenn | what does it actually do? | 00:16 |
| nmz787 | now whether that is the best beam profile for straight sidewalls, idk, but it is a start | 00:16 |
| fenn | in the blu-ray drive i mean | 00:16 |
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| nmz787 | there is also LIGA which I think is DIYable | 00:16 |
| nmz787 | for making super steep sidewalls with basically an OK starting master | 00:16 |
| nmz787 | oh | 00:16 |
| nmz787 | well, the pixels are for feedback into the voice coil for the lens shift | 00:17 |
| nmz787 | it gets a reflectance signal from the disc, and so can tell if its off-track | 00:17 |
| nmz787 | then adjusts in the right direction | 00:17 |
| fenn | adjusts what? | 00:18 |
| nmz787 | LCD must just attenuate the edges, or the center I guess | 00:18 |
| nmz787 | the voice coil that holds the final lens | 00:18 |
| nmz787 | the one that if you poke with a pen tip, will move | 00:18 |
| nmz787 | the stepper motor does coarse movement, and fine movement is achieved with the voice coil | 00:19 |
| fenn | i guess this is "tuning mirror f"? | 00:19 |
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| nmz787 | no it would be h | 00:20 |
| nmz787 | fib 1 (b) part h | 00:20 |
| nmz787 | fig | 00:20 |
| fenn | is h included in the chunk of metal with the bits and bobs in it? | 00:20 |
| nmz787 | "n. Finally, the beam goes through the objective lens h, which is mounted on an actuator system that can tilt the lens, or move it horizontally or vertically to micro-focus." | 00:21 |
| fenn | ok i know what that looks like | 00:22 |
| nmz787 | yeah its the lens that is right next to the CD | 00:22 |
| nmz787 | the one you could see in a walkman | 00:22 |
| fenn | cd-drives didnt have all this other crap though | 00:22 |
| nmz787 | they had the sensor d | 00:22 |
| nmz787 | al-track based optical drive do | 00:23 |
| nmz787 | all | 00:23 |
| fenn | of course | 00:23 |
| nmz787 | hyphens all messed up | 00:23 |
| nmz787 | the beam shaping is just to clean up whatever weird shape or harmonics the diode laser produces | 00:23 |
| nmz787 | maybe merge multiple diodes into one beam | 00:23 |
| nmz787 | who knows | 00:23 |
| nmz787 | but they come out standard | 00:24 |
| nmz787 | to some spec | 00:24 |
| nmz787 | idk if that would be some redbook extension | 00:24 |
| nmz787 | i remember reading that in a cdrom manual when i was a kid, redbook | 00:24 |
| fenn | a highly technical term referring to a book with a red cover | 00:24 |
| fenn | hey guyz lets make a data storage system using a sequence of bubbles in a liquid channel | 00:26 |
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| fenn | red bubbles, blue bubbles | 00:26 |
| fenn | you know you wanna do bubbles | 00:26 |
| kanzure | how would calibration/alignment work | 00:26 |
| kanzure | without video | 00:27 |
| fenn | their lines aren't very straight | 00:27 |
| fenn | probably an eccentric leadscrew | 00:28 |
| kanzure | oh look they include fucking scale bars | 00:28 |
| kanzure | BOM, scale bars, sanity, pick none | 00:29 |
| kanzure | not having to deal with microscopes is nice | 00:31 |
| kanzure | why didn't they try a more complex design | 00:31 |
| fenn | not being able to see your work is not so nice | 00:31 |
| fenn | i think they were just screwing around | 00:32 |
| nmz787 | making gratings is useful | 00:35 |
| nmz787 | and works well for tests | 00:35 |
| nmz787 | you just compare spectra against a known good grating | 00:35 |
| nmz787 | i.e. a plot of your light source from a good spectrometer | 00:36 |
| nmz787 | then you get similar plots from items you generate | 00:36 |
| fenn | the grating would have turned out better if they only had the laser on in a single direction (instead of boustrophedon) | 00:36 |
| fenn | .wik boustrophedon | 00:36 |
| yoleaux | "Boustrophedon (/ˌbaʊstrɵˈfiːdən/ or /ˌbuːstroʊˈfiːdən/; from Greek βουστροφηδόν, boustrophēdon “ox-turning” from βοῦς, bous, “ox” and στροφή, strophē, “turn”; that is, turning like oxen in ploughing) is a kind of bi-directional text, mostly seen in ancient manuscripts and other inscriptions." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boustrophedon | 00:36 |
| fenn | so the periodic errors would line up and the lines would at least be parallel if not straight | 00:37 |
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| nmz787 | ok well buy some stuff and send it my way | 00:40 |
| nmz787 | i g2g get to sleep | 00:40 |
| nmz787 | send those $? newmark stages my way :) | 00:43 |
| nmz787 | later | 00:43 |
| kanzure | stages? | 00:56 |
| kanzure | fenn: i want to avoid a committee as much as possible | 00:56 |
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| dpk | paperbot: http://www.jbe-platform.com/content/journals/10.1075/dia.12.1.12las | 05:16 |
| paperbot | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/480a002e9c963de3a405322f278be14e.txt | 05:16 |
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| ParahSailin | "[DIYbio] Candidatus Liberibacter: Solution?" i actually have a bunch of ngs and assembly on this bug | 07:51 |
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| kanzure | multi-language virtualenv manager thing https://github.com/ekalinin/envirius | 08:27 |
| sheena | kanzure: here? | 08:28 |
| eudoxia | cool, i should make a CL plugin | 08:29 |
| kanzure | eudoxia, for why? | 08:32 |
| eudoxia | kanzure: because there's currently no environment manager for Common Lisp | 08:33 |
| eudoxia | except for CIM but that doesn't do virtualenvs just handling different implementations | 08:34 |
| kanzure | where does common lisp store its dependencies? | 08:40 |
| eudoxia | quicklisp, the package manager, has a single global environment | 08:40 |
| kanzure | haha | 08:41 |
| eudoxia | i know, right? | 08:41 |
| eudoxia | you can do manual virtualenvs: https://github.com/eudoxia0/cmacro/blob/master/Makefile | 08:42 |
| kanzure | .title http://www.tedpella.com/mscope_html/evolution.htm | 08:46 |
| yoleaux | Evolution, Portable Scientific Microscope | 08:46 |
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| kanzure | http://www.amscope.com/highpower-multi-observing.html | 09:29 |
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| kanzure | hm i didn't know manu's microscope was an actual micron-resolution microscope http://www.foldscope.com/#/foldscope/ | 09:39 |
| kanzure | paperbot: http://arxiv.org/abs/1403.1211 | 09:43 |
| paperbot | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/Foldscope%3A%20Origami-based%20paper%20microscope.pdf | 09:43 |
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| dpk | kanzure: http://piratepad.net/qJQPLHLE2p | 10:27 |
| kanzure | dpk: hmm not sure how to cover the multiple request use case | 10:34 |
| kanzure | i could imagine an intermediate object that contains "all relevant data", one of those datum is the page html, and other page html | 10:35 |
| kanzure | then the object proxies requests itself, and either serves up existing content, or does the actual http requests against the live interwebs | 10:35 |
| dpk | hmm, yes | 10:39 |
| kanzure | dpk: the other competing issue is streams. i don't remember why papermonk-plosone-downloader isn't working at the moment. | 10:45 |
| kanzure | it uses a streaming html parser, and as certain elements are parsed that match an xpath (etc), it emits json, and eventually the full json blob representing the metadata. | 10:45 |
| kanzure | or, that's what's supposed to happen :) | 10:46 |
| dpk | is it really necessary to use a streaming parser? | 10:46 |
| dpk | for a start, if you use a streaming parser you can't comply with the HTML5 parsing spec | 10:46 |
| kanzure | my (possibly bad) reasons were something about asynchronicity and callbacks | 10:47 |
| kanzure | i could be convinced | 10:47 |
| dpk | most of the Node HTML parsers i've seen will accept a stream as input | 10:52 |
| dpk | they just don't return anything (or rather, call their callbacks) until the stream has ended | 10:52 |
| kanzure | i was using https://github.com/substack/node-trumpet | 10:52 |
| kanzure | which uh, uses sax | 10:53 |
| kanzure | specifically this sax http://npmjs.org/package/sax | 10:53 |
| kanzure | well anyway, non-streaming-html-parsing is probably fine | 10:57 |
| kanzure | .title http://micro.magnet.fsu.edu/primer/museum/thurymulti.html | 11:04 |
| yoleaux | Molecular Expressions Microscopy Primer: Museum of Microscopy | 11:04 |
| kanzure | "Five eyepiece tubes are mounted on a central housing that contains a 90-degree prism, which allows light to be directed into each of the five tubes individually (but not simultaneously)." | 11:04 |
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| kanzure | dpk: so does that complete the puzzle? | 11:36 |
| dpk | in what sense? | 11:38 |
| dpk | well, basically, yes, i think the proposed API there solves the embedability problem | 11:38 |
| dpk | except that it'll be ughy to add multiple fetch support to it | 11:39 |
| dpk | there's also the issue of Zotero.Item | 11:44 |
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| kanzure | dpk: zotero can have its own wrappers; we just have to expose the right amount of data to zotero (e.g., "don't provide less than the previous implementation") | 12:02 |
| kanzure | various zemax files (optics simulation related) https://code.google.com/p/zmxoct/source/browse/#svn%2Ftrunk%2FLED%20collimator | 12:04 |
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| kanzure | oh yeah, i forgot about his visual diffs of pcbs http://www.evilmadscientist.com/2011/improving-open-source-hardware-visual-diffs/ | 12:20 |
| kanzure | .title http://www.xess.com/blog/schematics-really/ | 12:20 |
| yoleaux | kanzure: Sorry, that command (.title) took too long to process. | 12:21 |
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| * dpk nods | 12:25 | |
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| kanzure | "the oil meniscus makes you lose a refracting surface on the sphere and so your resolution gets cut in half" | 13:07 |
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| kanzure | http://vimeo.com/89546954 "16mm film roll exposed directly to the light, without the use of any lens or photographic equipment. | 13:32 |
| kanzure | The film was entirely developed and assembled in the dark room, using various bugs, organic elements, liquids, leafs, and bacteria growth in Petri dishes laid directly onto the film." | 13:32 |
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| dpk | kanzure: so, if i were to start working on this properly tomorrow, with the goal of having at minimum all the paper-scrapers (i.e. none of the encyclopedia/news articles/other crap) ported over to the new system by 30 June … would that be something you would be interested in? | 14:03 |
| dpk | i reckon i can get the scraper framework done on the first day, then from there it's just the schlep of converting the Zotero translators to use it | 14:04 |
| kanzure | pm | 14:07 |
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| kanzure | .title http://web.archive.org/web/20000130180314/http://atom.harvard.edu/~tweezer/parts.html | 15:00 |
| yoleaux | Optical Tweezers -- Parts List | 15:00 |
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| seba- | http://i.imgur.com/g2tS1O5.jpg | 15:14 |
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| eudoxia | seba-: it's probably just me but the ribcage looks like it's being crushed | 15:35 |
| seba- | it does | 15:39 |
| FourFire | seba-, wow that's morbid | 15:45 |
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| * heath wonders what to do in nyc | 15:59 | |
| heath | museum of mathematics? genspace? nyc resistor?... | 16:00 |
| seba- | heath, go on the WTC and see the view | 16:03 |
| kanzure | paperbot: http://proceedings.spiedigitallibrary.org/proceeding.aspx?articleid=876621 | 16:04 |
| paperbot | http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1117%2F12.625196 | 16:04 |
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| nmz787_i | heath: I haven't been to resistor, but I've been to genspace (worth checking out), and also hackManhattan (is ok) | 16:20 |
| nmz787_i | heath: walking across the Brooklyn Bridge is a good activity, very nice city views | 16:21 |
| nmz787_i | driving around parkway that encircles manhattan is cool too | 16:21 |
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| kanzure | this is a very curious history of the microscope: http://yadda.icm.edu.pl/yadda/element/bwmeta1.element.dl-catalog-d8435d5e-d0d2-4ab8-9f98-496d28b24547/c/Vasco_Ronchi_-_new_history_of__191-204.pdf | 16:39 |
| kanzure | it explains why the microscope was ignored for hundreds of years | 16:39 |
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| nmz787_i | 100s? | 17:04 |
| nmz787_i | we only got past chromatic aberration in the early 1800s | 17:04 |
| nmz787_i | kanzure: what about LibreCAD? | 17:05 |
| kanzure | what about it? | 17:06 |
| nmz787_i | that's the question i asked you. | 17:12 |
| kanzure | no i mean.. uh. | 17:13 |
| kanzure | yes it exists | 17:13 |
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| nmz787_i | but is it worth using | 17:18 |
| nmz787_i | how does it compare to brlcad? | 17:18 |
| nmz787_i | it says it is 'friends of brlcad' | 17:18 |
| kanzure | it's 2d cad stuff iirc | 17:18 |
| nmz787_i | huh, free open-source windows clone https://www.reactos.org/ | 17:20 |
| nmz787_i | and apparently libreCAD runs on it | 17:20 |
| pasky | http://arxiv.org/abs/1404.7828 (extremely extensive survey on deep learning, yet not completely finished but still cool) | 17:20 |
| kanzure | paperbot: http://arxiv.org/abs/1404.7828 | 17:23 |
| paperbot | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/Deep%20Learning%20in%20Neural%20Networks%3A%20An%20Overview.pdf | 17:23 |
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| pasky | (though it's awful they forgot to \use{hyperref} and references aren't clickable) | 17:35 |
| kanzure | write them an angry email | 17:38 |
| pasky | ok | 17:40 |
| kanzure | :) | 17:41 |
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| kanzure | i wonder if ussr nutrition sucked too | 18:01 |
| kanzure | i mean, nutrition knowledge | 18:01 |
| gradstudentbot | Yeah, I'm a 4th year. No wait, I'm a 6th year. | 18:01 |
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| gene_hacker | hey kanzure, how much do you know about nanoengineer/ | 18:34 |
| kanzure | i was rewriting it at one point, but stopped because i got bored | 18:34 |
| gene_hacker | what's it doing under the hood | 18:37 |
| gene_hacker | is it using a standard molecular dynamics tool? | 18:37 |
| kanzure | nanoengineer offloads simulation to GROMACS and "that other one" | 18:38 |
| kanzure | GAMESS | 18:38 |
| kanzure | and uh, MPQC | 18:38 |
| gene_hacker | all of it? | 18:39 |
| gene_hacker | don't you need potentials for that? | 18:39 |
| kanzure | simulation only happens when you click simulate | 18:40 |
| kanzure | the rest of the time it's using its own internal modeling | 18:40 |
| gene_hacker | so what does it pass to these simulations? | 18:41 |
| gene_hacker | and are the simulations really all that accurate? | 18:43 |
| kanzure | i dunno about accuracy or realism | 18:43 |
| kanzure | https://github.com/kanzure/nanoengineer/blob/master/cad/src/simulation/ | 18:43 |
| kanzure | this may be the one that passes data to the simulator: | 18:44 |
| kanzure | https://github.com/kanzure/nanoengineer/blob/master/cad/src/simulation/runSim.py | 18:44 |
| kanzure | dingo: lolfest in that file and https://github.com/kanzure/nanoengineer/blob/master/cad/src/simulation/movie.py | 18:45 |
| kanzure | gene_hacker: this is where GROMACS is launched, https://github.com/kanzure/nanoengineer/blob/master/cad/src/simulation/GROMACS/GROMACS.py#L73 | 18:46 |
| gradstudentbot | Yeah, but that was only a sample size of one. | 18:46 |
| gene_hacker | isn't it just using gromacs just for energy minimization of DNA structures | 18:47 |
| kanzure | hm maybe, | 18:48 |
| kanzure | so the other half of nanoengineer was this thing called nanohive | 18:48 |
| kanzure | over here: | 18:48 |
| kanzure | https://github.com/kanzure/nanoengineer/tree/master/sim/src | 18:48 |
| kanzure | oh wow i thought i had ripped out libpython23.a.gz from the history.. that shouldn't be there (makes the repo larger) | 18:50 |
| kanzure | nice set of tests though, | 18:51 |
| kanzure | https://github.com/kanzure/nanoengineer/tree/master/sim/src/tests/motors | 18:51 |
| gene_hacker | so nanoengineer used nanohive? | 18:54 |
| kanzure | iirc, nanohive was built independently, then nanorex acquired the software and technology, and may have integrated it directly into naneongineer | 18:55 |
| kanzure | .title http://www.nanotech-now.com/news.cgi?story_id=17117 | 18:55 |
| yoleaux | Press Release: 'Nanorex acquires Nano-Hive' | 18:55 |
| gene_hacker | and how was this thing made? | 18:56 |
| gene_hacker | http://www.nanotech-now.com/images/Nanorex-smallbearing-esp1-big.gif | 18:56 |
| gene_hacker | huh, so it seems like it could use several molecular dynamics systems? | 18:57 |
| kanzure | gromacs, gamess, mpqc | 18:58 |
| gene_hacker | can it still do that? | 18:58 |
| kanzure | no idea :) | 18:58 |
| kanzure | nanohive had some plugins: AIREBO, BondCalculator, MPQC_SClib, REBO_MBM | 18:59 |
| kanzure | http://web.archive.org/web/20070504133937/http://www.nanoengineer-1.com/nh1/index.php?option=com_staticxt&staticfile=bodyframe/PluginReference.html#PluginReference.PIPs.REBO_MBM | 18:59 |
| kanzure | and here's their mechanosynthesis simulation, | 19:00 |
| kanzure | http://web.archive.org/web/20070504133937/http://www.nanoengineer-1.com/nh1/doc/diamond-ms-index.html | 19:00 |
| kanzure | "Using the REBO_MBM Interaction Plugin described above, D. Huang et al's proposed reaction sequence of epitaxial diamond growth [13] , Sinnott et al's hydrogen abstraction [14] , and adaptations of Ralph Merkle's proposed hydrocarbon assembly tools [15] , we created an example of the mechanosynthesis of diamond with the simulator." | 19:00 |
| kanzure | so, a while back, i built a chroot environment for running nanoengineer in the original linux environment it was developed for | 19:01 |
| kanzure | the instructions are in the README | 19:01 |
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| kanzure | i did not try to use the simulators, but the process would be (1) find the appropriate versions of GROMACS, MPQC, GAMESS, (2) put it in the chroot (just download it), (3) install/run.. | 19:02 |
| gene_hacker | so nanoengineer doesn't find potentials on it's own right? | 19:04 |
| kanzure | i think the simulator might, | 19:05 |
| kanzure | https://github.com/kanzure/nanoengineer/blob/13316409d2911388e7fbc4643804553dbc2f13ed/sim/src/BUGS | 19:05 |
| kanzure | https://github.com/kanzure/nanoengineer/blob/13316409d2911388e7fbc4643804553dbc2f13ed/sim/src/minstructure.c#L58 | 19:05 |
| kanzure | line 56: // This is the potential function which is being minimized. | 19:05 |
| gene_hacker | no, not that sort of the potential | 19:06 |
| kanzure | updateVanDerWaals, calculatePotential, jigMinimizePotentialRotaryMotor, jigMinimizePotentialLinearMotor, .. | 19:06 |
| kanzure | oh.. | 19:06 |
| gene_hacker | the force field you get around atoms and molecules which you get from DFT | 19:06 |
| kanzure | electrostatic potential? | 19:06 |
| gene_hacker | I think so ? | 19:07 |
| nmz787_i | omg ben krasnow not only does everything else cool, he owns a deLorean http://www.tek.com/blog/mdo3000-tracks-delorean%E2%80%99s-uneven-idle?mkt_tok=3RkMMJWWfF9wsRonuKTJeu%2FhmjTEU5z17%2B4lXKe%2Fi4kz2EFye%2BLIHETpodcMRcFkNK%2BTFAwTG5toziV8R7XNKM13yt0QUxXi | 19:09 |
| gene_hacker | and how hard is it to add a pseudo atom to nanoengineer? | 19:16 |
| kanzure | modifying nanoengineer is a little painful because the code is poorly written, and nobody knows the source code anymore really | 19:17 |
| kanzure | you can add new types of atoms but they will not work everywhere in the system, i think | 19:18 |
| kanzure | the principle of duck typing applies because it's python, so that's nice.. | 19:18 |
| gene_hacker | so adding metal bonding would be pretty difficult with it? | 19:19 |
| kanzure | no idea, sorry, might be simple | 19:20 |
| nmz787_i | gene_hacker: how does metal bonding differ from whatever it has now? | 19:21 |
| nmz787_i | wouldn't a metal just be able to get higher numbers of attachments? | 19:21 |
| nmz787_i | or have stronger bonding? | 19:21 |
| gene_hacker | it doesn't like it when I put a metal atom in | 19:21 |
| gene_hacker | I can't add enough bonds | 19:22 |
| kanzure | what does it do? | 19:22 |
| kanzure | just error? | 19:22 |
| nmz787_i | ben krasnow has a diffusion pump for giveaway for an informal contest | 19:23 |
| gene_hacker | it seems to act strangely? | 19:24 |
| gene_hacker | maybe it's correct? | 19:24 |
| gene_hacker | but it just won't let me add additional bonds is all | 19:25 |
| gene_hacker | I'm just looking for an easy to use and somewhat accurate molecular dynamics/statics system | 19:26 |
| gene_hacker | and nanoengineer certainly fulfills the easy to use part | 19:27 |
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| kanzure | gene_hacker: http://www.gromacs.org/Documentation/Terminology/Molecular_Dynamics_Simulations | 19:35 |
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| delinquentme | Can you guys think of any machines which would allow me to make a filament somewhat like a fishingline ... but in a varying diameter? | 19:45 |
| gene_hacker | man that documentation is so much more readable than the LAMMPS documentation | 19:46 |
| gene_hacker | without changing the nozzle? | 19:46 |
| gene_hacker | otherwise you're looking those things that are used in injection molding machines | 19:47 |
| kanzure | nmz787: how does this guarantee feature sizes? http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/optics/photolithography/UV-LED%20exposure%20system%20for%20low-cost%20photolithography.pdf | 19:49 |
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| kanzure | it does not seem to be using an objective | 19:53 |
| kanzure | 5 mm LED tube diameter | 19:55 |
| kanzure | "The optimum distance between the sample stage and the LEDs was found to be approximately 3.5 cm. " | 19:55 |
| kanzure | "15 degree viewing angle" | 20:01 |
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| gene_hacker | how does that even work? | 20:02 |
| gene_hacker | it isn't use a lense? | 20:03 |
| gene_hacker | oh I see | 20:03 |
| gene_hacker | they put a photomask on the wafer | 20:03 |
| kanzure | damn you're right | 20:05 |
| kanzure | those jerks | 20:05 |
| gene_hacker | so why aren't you doing maskless lithography with a projector hooked up to a microscope again? | 20:07 |
| kanzure | something about buying connectors? | 20:08 |
| kanzure | not sure which ones to get | 20:09 |
| gene_hacker | what do you mean by connectors? | 20:10 |
| kanzure | imagine a trinocular microscope, and a projector | 20:11 |
| kanzure | the projector will fall off the microscope- that's what a connector fixes | 20:11 |
| gene_hacker | why not get a really small projector? | 20:12 |
| nmz787 | i emailed ben krasnow and asked what shop equipment he recommends | 20:12 |
| nmz787 | he makes adapters and crap all the time | 20:12 |
| kanzure | a really small projector also needs to be adapted to the microscope | 20:12 |
| nmz787 | a pico projector doesn't have as many pixels | 20:12 |
| gene_hacker | how many pixels do you need? | 20:13 |
| nmz787 | and we're going to need to overepresent pixels a bit so we can align stepped areas | 20:13 |
| gene_hacker | is making a connector your only problem? | 20:13 |
| nmz787 | overrepresent physical-pixels with DMD pixels | 20:13 |
| nmz787 | if that makes sense | 20:13 |
| kanzure | technically, a projector photolithography system can be tested without a microscope (since the mirrors are 17 microns) | 20:13 |
| nmz787 | i had shyed away from DMD/DLP when i saw the bluray on a CNC paper | 20:14 |
| nmz787 | because its more available (cheaper to get bluray drive) | 20:14 |
| nmz787 | and i saw a paper with interpixel noise from a DMD... but i guess they weren't over-representing pixels | 20:14 |
| juri_ | http://www.smbc-comics.com/?id=2766#comic | 20:14 |
| gene_hacker | well it can't be that accurate with a CNC | 20:14 |
| nmz787 | (i.e. you want 1 micron features, but use 10 pixels to fit into that 1 micron, so you can move the features sub-micron in software | 20:15 |
| nmz787 | if your stepper motors suck | 20:15 |
| gene_hacker | well how low do you need the interpixel noise? | 20:15 |
| kanzure | gene_hacker: he means an xy table, not a cnc | 20:15 |
| gene_hacker | yeah I know | 20:15 |
| nmz787 | gene_hacker: quite low | 20:15 |
| gene_hacker | you still need a pretty accurate x-y table | 20:15 |
| nmz787 | the interpixel peaks were enough to make the surface look kinda like an egg carton | 20:16 |
| nmz787 | not as deep as an egg carton | 20:16 |
| nmz787 | but you could see it | 20:16 |
| nmz787 | it is more crap to have to model, more complex models | 20:16 |
| gene_hacker | and this was done where? | 20:16 |
| nmz787 | which means the hydrodynamics will be more complex | 20:16 |
| gene_hacker | hydrodynamics of? | 20:17 |
| gene_hacker | low Re flow? | 20:17 |
| nmz787 | of the liquids and molecules contained therein | 20:17 |
| gene_hacker | this is for microfluidics right? | 20:17 |
| gene_hacker | and wouldn't you have the same problem with a laser? | 20:18 |
| nmz787 | like for some things like sorting cells you don't care as much about nano smoothness, but more about micro | 20:18 |
| nmz787 | but for DNA it might be the opposite | 20:18 |
| nmz787 | or you care about both | 20:18 |
| gene_hacker | because the laser beam is gaussian? | 20:18 |
| nmz787 | cause DNA can get ripped or trapped in a low-pressure zone | 20:18 |
| gradstudentbot | Hood life: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=296519020495014 | 20:18 |
| nmz787 | the difference is moving the beam smoothly as you trace | 20:19 |
| nmz787 | wtf gradstudentbot you're on facebook? | 20:19 |
| gradstudentbot | The autoclave smells really good. | 20:19 |
| gene_hacker | again, it's low reynolds number flow | 20:19 |
| nmz787 | ? | 20:19 |
| nmz787 | explain | 20:19 |
| gradstudentbot | This seems to be based on surface normals. | 20:19 |
| fenn | rob rhinehart is going to be in the colbert report in 10 min | 20:20 |
| gene_hacker | in other words, you get practically no vorticity | 20:20 |
| nmz787 | yeah but its surface area | 20:20 |
| gene_hacker | so the worry with DLP is that it will produce surfaces that are too rough? | 20:21 |
| nmz787 | that's one thought | 20:21 |
| nmz787 | and availability/price | 20:21 |
| gene_hacker | and what feature size are you trying to make? | 20:21 |
| nmz787 | also reliability with UV exposure | 20:22 |
| nmz787 | I'm aiming for 1 to 10 microns | 20:22 |
| nmz787 | a blu-ray has optics we wouldn't mess with | 20:22 |
| nmz787 | so billions of engineering $$$$ behind them | 20:22 |
| nmz787 | vs our duck-tape mounted projector on some ebay lens | 20:22 |
| kanzure | so, why are you asking that ben person? could you just measure the projector and measure the ocular port dimensions and tell me those numbers instead? | 20:23 |
| nmz787 | they're all good ideas, i'd like to try them all | 20:23 |
| nmz787 | and compare | 20:23 |
| nmz787 | i asked ben about shop equipment | 20:23 |
| gene_hacker | so how are you going to move a bluray laser to within 10 micrometer accuracy? | 20:23 |
| kanzure | you don't | 20:23 |
| kanzure | you move the sample | 20:24 |
| nmz787 | my garage is more convenient than downtown hackerspaces | 20:24 |
| kanzure | gene_hacker: http://diyhpl.us/laser_etcher/laser_etcher has the stage | 20:24 |
| nmz787 | you have a very high threadcount screw and a geared stepper motor | 20:24 |
| nmz787 | or possibly even use the bluray stepper setup | 20:24 |
| nmz787 | then use the voicecoil actuated objective on the bluray for nano/micro movement | 20:25 |
| nmz787 | that idea would not be constant illumination | 20:25 |
| nmz787 | so could have 'interpixel' noise | 20:25 |
| nmz787 | but it would be super cheap and easy | 20:25 |
| nmz787 | it could probably be hacked with polar coordinates too, idk, and just use the single bluray drive as-is | 20:26 |
| dingo | 01:46 < kanzure> dingo: lolfest in that file and https://github.com/kanzure/nanoengineer/blob/master/cad/src/simulation/movie.py | 20:26 |
| nmz787 | maybe with just a working distance adjustment | 20:26 |
| * dingo catching up | 20:26 | |
| gene_hacker | so don't you have to index the sample with sub-resolution you want to achieve? | 20:26 |
| nmz787 | you have to control with better than you want | 20:26 |
| dingo | thats a lot of 3rd party import hehe | 20:27 |
| nmz787 | if that's what you're asking | 20:27 |
| dingo | def get_sim_posns(self): #bruce 060111 renamed and revised this from get_posns, for use in approximate fix of bug 1297 | 20:27 |
| dingo | # note: this method is no longer called as of bruce 060112, but its comments are relevant and are referred to | 20:27 |
| dingo | # from several files using the name of this method. It's also still correctly implemented, so we can leave it in for now. | 20:27 |
| dingo | cute | 20:27 |
| dingo | does any of this code supposed to work | 20:27 |
| kanzure | yep... check the README for fancy graphics. | 20:27 |
| gene_hacker | is this good enough: http://www.nature.com/ncomms/2013/130719/ncomms3103/full/ncomms3103.html?message-global=remove | 20:28 |
| kanzure | .title | 20:28 |
| yoleaux | Desktop nanofabrication with massively multiplexed beam pen lithography | 20:28 |
| dingo | kanzure: if we invited you to san jose in the long future would you make it? | 20:28 |
| dingo | we were discussing today to invite you sometime in december | 20:28 |
| dingo | that if we planned it out long enough you might come | 20:28 |
| dingo | "and leave his apartment" | 20:29 |
| kanzure | dingo: yep | 20:29 |
| dingo | great | 20:29 |
| nmz787 | dingo: aww i was just in san mateo at the maker faire | 20:29 |
| kanzure | dingo: the beauty of being free is that i can choose to be wherever i want.. | 20:29 |
| dingo | mm i have a lot to learn from you | 20:30 |
| kanzure | also the way of lard | 20:30 |
| dingo | "bruce" occurs like five hundred times in this file | 20:30 |
| dingo | why doesn't bruce get his shit together and do his TODO's | 20:30 |
| kanzure | bruce appears everywhere | 20:30 |
| kanzure | throughout the whole project | 20:30 |
| gene_hacker | 120 nm line width | 20:30 |
| nmz787 | gene_hacker: trying to get full copy | 20:31 |
| nmz787 | hold on | 20:31 |
| kanzure | dingo: it's just endless, | 20:31 |
| kanzure | https://github.com/kanzure/nanoengineer/blob/master/cad/src/model/part.py | 20:31 |
| dingo | i missed the makerfair unfortunately | 20:31 |
| dingo | in detroit, MI, it was like .. one parking lot, not very large | 20:32 |
| dingo | i hear the one in california is *huge* | 20:32 |
| nmz787 | yeah | 20:32 |
| dingo | i had a good time in the detroit one, i taught lock picking to children | 20:32 |
| dingo | it was great | 20:32 |
| nmz787 | cool | 20:32 |
| kanzure | i think there was at least 1 trampling at the bay area one | 20:32 |
| nmz787 | i went to the lockpicking area | 20:32 |
| nmz787 | i was teaching kids how to take stuff apart | 20:32 |
| dingo | but i have a masterlock i found on the street i've been trying to pick for a week now, i'm not feeling very proficient | 20:32 |
| dingo | kids are great | 20:33 |
| nmz787 | this chinese lock i had at home it pretty tough even though i think its from harbor freight | 20:33 |
| dingo | i used to tutor college students in programming, but i really think my future is in tutoring children to program | 20:33 |
| dingo | they got the right mindset -- doing it only for the joy of doing it -- nothing more | 20:33 |
| nmz787 | i feel like its cheapness made the insides sloppy which makes it harder | 20:33 |
| nmz787 | but i'm a total n00b | 20:33 |
| dingo | college students and adults have this "how do i make money from this" attitude that kind of burns it all away | 20:33 |
| dingo | yeah the worst lock i ever picked was a rusty old crusty piece of junk | 20:34 |
| gene_hacker | oh you need a weird subwavelength aperture array, a scanning probe lithography system, and a DLP chip | 20:34 |
| dingo | i was just considering that the other day | 20:34 |
| dingo | lockpicking is only easy on brand new locks from home depot | 20:34 |
| dingo | the real challenge is doing *any* lock, in any situation, no matter how rusty it is | 20:34 |
| nmz787 | http://diyhpl.us/~nmz787/pdf/Desktop_nanofabrication_with_massively_multiplexed_beam_pen_lithography.pdf | 20:34 |
| kanzure | gene_hacker: dlp dev kit is like $8k sux | 20:34 |
| dingo | if they just machined them poorly -- that makes it more challenging! | 20:34 |
| dingo | thoguh the most *impossible* lock i ever tried to pick was an albaloy | 20:34 |
| nmz787 | kanzure: you bought me a DLP dev kit, essentially... the only difference is the framerate | 20:34 |
| kanzure | the actual dev kit probably comes with other goodies | 20:35 |
| dingo | abloy | 20:35 |
| nmz787 | not too much | 20:35 |
| nmz787 | a light that is connected in the right way | 20:35 |
| dingo | they have these half-moon structures, based in concentric circules, its imposible to pick by traditional means | 20:35 |
| nmz787 | maybe a lens with a standard mount | 20:35 |
| nmz787 | i think i heard protec was the best one | 20:35 |
| kanzure | dingo: what you need is x-ray imaging of locks before you pick them | 20:35 |
| nmz787 | but that could have been my bike helmet from when i was a kid | 20:35 |
| nmz787 | dingo: any recommendations for getting a key outta a car ignition? | 20:36 |
| nmz787 | i bought an extractor set, but had no luck | 20:36 |
| nmz787 | couldn't seem to get onto the tip of the key | 20:36 |
| nmz787 | its broken halfway in the ignition, so nothing sticking out | 20:36 |
| nmz787 | there's even at least one (i think only 1) pin blockin it in | 20:37 |
| gene_hacker | you have a DLP dev kit? | 20:37 |
| dingo | ahh broken halfway in huh | 20:37 |
| nmz787 | nah just a projector i modified | 20:37 |
| dingo | i've used some very nice needle-nose pliars or very strong magnets for such tasks | 20:37 |
| nmz787 | had to make a little board to fake out the fan speed sensors | 20:37 |
| nmz787 | hmm | 20:37 |
| gene_hacker | so you've tried the microscope trick then? | 20:38 |
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| dingo | once you pick a lock a few times and learn the pins and depths, it becomes easier | 20:38 |
| nmz787 | i was using like the 0.2mm extractor to get between the key and the sleeve or whatever... the keyway | 20:38 |
| nmz787 | gene_hacker: i gave up when i didn't think of a way to attach the two | 20:38 |
| nmz787 | i really didn't want to build things out of 2x4s | 20:38 |
| dingo | so theres truth the x-ray trick | 20:38 |
| dingo | kanzure: sl4shd0t tells me she stopped by to say hellow | 20:38 |
| dingo | but she spelled her nickname backwards | 20:39 |
| kanzure | stopped by where? | 20:39 |
| dingo | it was like t0dhs4ls or some such | 20:39 |
| dingo | here | 20:39 |
| nmz787 | i went to a 4 yr old's bday party last weekend, thought about getting her a clear lock and some picks | 20:39 |
| kanzure | oh | 20:39 |
| nmz787 | but idk if the parents would be OK | 20:39 |
| dingo | then she was embaressed and left, she's shy like that | 20:39 |
| dingo | though she's married, she claims you are very cute! how about that | 20:39 |
| dingo | i didn't say that hehe | 20:39 |
| kanzure | tell her i'm too old for her | 20:39 |
| dingo | haw haw haw | 20:40 |
| nmz787 | this is logged, you did say that :P | 20:40 |
| dingo | damn logs'll be the end of me | 20:40 |
| dingo | i'll be in court one day contesting irc logs i know it | 20:40 |
| kanzure | oh that was on the 9th | 20:42 |
| kanzure | that's pretty funny, i said hi within a few seconds | 20:42 |
| kanzure | typical | 20:42 |
| kanzure | nmz787: what photoresists do you have? | 20:43 |
| dingo | i had an angry parent come to me because i gave her 12yr-old-boy a 2-item lockpick set from my own, hehe | 20:44 |
| dingo | theres no laws against it | 20:44 |
| dingo | its good to encourage children to break into security systems | 20:44 |
| dingo | people should know these are just techincal formalities | 20:44 |
| dingo | "its locked, i guess we just give up, then" is not the right attitude | 20:45 |
| kanzure | hmm would be nice to have a micro LED array thing: http://techcrunch.com/2014/05/02/apple-acquires-power-efficient-led-tech-company-luxvue/ | 20:45 |
| kanzure | oh i wonder if it's switchable | 20:45 |
| nmz787 | kanzure: just the ebay stuff right now, though i should get some su-8 | 20:46 |
| nmz787 | kanzure: i have a lab address for shipping stuff to | 20:46 |
| kanzure | i haven't been tracking the names of the materials that respond to which wavelengths | 20:46 |
| kanzure | it's probably a long list of options | 20:46 |
| gene_hacker | this is interesting: | 20:47 |
| gene_hacker | http://repositories.lib.utexas.edu/bitstream/handle/2152/3406/luy88570.pdf?sequence=2 | 20:47 |
| kanzure | .title | 20:47 |
| kanzure | oh, pdf | 20:47 |
| yoleaux | kanzure: Sorry, that command (.title) crashed. | 20:47 |
| gradstudentbot | That result wasn't repeatable. | 20:49 |
| nmz787 | kanzure: also the photoresist company up the street | 20:49 |
| kanzure | in that paper, "Patterns of each layer are drawn in a series of PowerPoint slides" | 20:51 |
| kanzure | oh well | 20:51 |
| kanzure | why not something more hilarious, like "in excel spreadsheets zoomed out all the way" | 20:51 |
| gene_hacker | nmz787 any chance you could measure how much UV your projector throws out? | 20:52 |
| nmz787 | not until my spectrometer is built | 20:53 |
| nmz787 | or kanzure sends me one | 20:53 |
| nmz787 | anyway i was shining a 405nm laser into it | 20:53 |
| nmz787 | so it would be 99% 405nm | 20:53 |
| nmz787 | kanzure: powerpoint is pretty easy | 20:53 |
| nmz787 | kanzure: you can have timers for each slide | 20:53 |
| gene_hacker | you were shining a laser through a projector? | 20:53 |
| nmz787 | yep | 20:54 |
| nmz787 | last year | 20:54 |
| nmz787 | or the one before | 20:54 |
| gene_hacker | so it isn't too hard to replace the lamp? | 20:54 |
| nmz787 | it came without one | 20:54 |
| nmz787 | from ebay | 20:54 |
| nmz787 | i had to make a voltage to freq converter basically | 20:54 |
| nmz787 | to trick out the fan speed sensors | 20:54 |
| gene_hacker | because if you can make a projector throw out a crapload of UV, you can do some fun stuff at the macroscale | 20:54 |
| nmz787 | https://github.com/nmz787/DLP-Projector-fan-and-lightbulb-override-msp430 | 20:54 |
| nmz787 | UV is a concern of mine for longevity of the DMD method | 20:55 |
| gene_hacker | well what's the DMD made of? | 20:55 |
| nmz787 | as they're not rated (no literature on it in the manual for example) | 20:55 |
| nmz787 | and its getting closer to where photoelectric effect is stronger | 20:55 |
| nmz787 | probably Al | 20:56 |
| nmz787 | but there are electronics under each mirror | 20:56 |
| nmz787 | and between | 20:56 |
| gene_hacker | http://www.ti.com/lit/an/dlpa031c/dlpa031c.pdf | 20:56 |
| kanzure | "UV windows have special AR coatings designed to be more | 20:57 |
| kanzure | transmissive for ultraviolet wavelength, v" | 20:57 |
| nmz787 | for the normal window its still in the 90s % | 20:58 |
| nmz787 | guess longevity should be ok then | 20:58 |
| nmz787 | unless they actually have changed their DMD design | 20:59 |
| nmz787 | and this is actually a special part | 20:59 |
| nmz787 | for a special part | 20:59 |
| nmz787 | heh, that paper is by Yi Lu... I know a guy named Yue Li | 21:01 |
| nmz787 | i actually was able to just twist the projector lense past its normal zoom set point and focus the image to about 2cm per side | 21:02 |
| nmz787 | but you've got no idea if its still focused in that usage | 21:03 |
| nmz787 | since it was engineered to be all in focus when the image is like 8 ft per side | 21:03 |
| gene_hacker | they are basically two types of DMDs, ones for NIR, and ones that'll do every wavelength up until they start passing through it | 21:04 |
| nmz787 | passing through was never my concern | 21:05 |
| nmz787 | it was the photons that make it past, not through | 21:05 |
| gene_hacker | point is, if you can throw out a crap load of UV light, you can make precision ceramic molds for making turbine | 21:05 |
| nmz787 | lol | 21:05 |
| nmz787 | my farmer /does/ have a stream he needs power extracted from | 21:06 |
| gene_hacker | by passing through, I mean, you can use almost any wavelength of light up to x-rays | 21:06 |
| nmz787 | yeah i got ya | 21:06 |
| gene_hacker | I don't mean water turbines, though you could do that, I mean single crystalline jet turbine blades | 21:07 |
| nmz787 | nano? | 21:07 |
| gene_hacker | macro | 21:07 |
| gene_hacker | they're just about the hardest thing to make ever | 21:07 |
| gradstudentbot | Seriously, who moved my samples? | 21:07 |
| nmz787 | cool, so for my future nuclear steam car/VTOL | 21:07 |
| gradstudentbot | Where are the pipettes? | 21:08 |
| gradstudentbot | You know, I can just do consulting. | 21:08 |
| nmz787 | gene_hacker: then why can't one use that method to make glass microfludicis? | 21:12 |
| gene_hacker | because you can't cast class? | 21:12 |
| gene_hacker | *glass | 21:12 |
| nmz787 | gene_hacker: http://invenios.com/micro-fabrication-resources/foturan-photo-sensitive-glass/ | 21:12 |
| nmz787 | i thought you said it was photo based | 21:12 |
| nmz787 | "It is a lithium-potassium glass dotted with small amounts of silver and cerium oxides, produced by Schott Glass Corp." | 21:13 |
| gene_hacker | http://ddm.me.gatech.edu/page8/page8.html | 21:13 |
| gene_hacker | it is, you are exposing photopolymer with ceramic particles in it | 21:14 |
| kanzure | hah "Direct Digital Manufacturing of Airfoils via Large Area Maskless Photopolymerization " | 21:14 |
| kanzure | large area.. wonder how large. | 21:14 |
| gene_hacker | how large do you want it? | 21:14 |
| kanzure | meters | 21:14 |
| gene_hacker | that's what they're trying to do | 21:15 |
| gene_hacker | they take a projector and move it across a big vat of photopolymer | 21:15 |
| gradstudentbot | Oh great, my paper got accepted with no revisions. Nice. | 21:17 |
| kanzure | why is radstudentbot acting up | 21:18 |
| kanzure | ParahSailin: chinese real estate is weird http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-06-11/mindblowing-fact-day-china-has-over-52-million-vacant-homes#comment-4846800 | 21:31 |
| kanzure | (i mean the "never sell your last home" aspect) | 21:31 |
| ParahSailin | zerohedge is reporting decade old news now? | 21:32 |
| kanzure | yeah i dunno why it's reporting that | 21:32 |
| kanzure | but i meant the comment i linked to | 21:32 |
| kanzure | this one is also weird: | 21:35 |
| kanzure | http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-06-11/chinese-gdp-set-plunge-government-shuts-20-million-wechat-prostitution-accounts | 21:35 |
| kanzure | qq isn't favored any more? | 21:36 |
| nmz787 | "More than one in five homes in China's urban areas is vacant" | 21:37 |
| nmz787 | that doesn't seem too much | 21:37 |
| nmz787 | 20% extra | 21:37 |
| ParahSailin | im kinda surprised that you read that far into the zh comment section | 21:37 |
| kanzure | well i skip the articles | 21:38 |
| kanzure | all news sources are complete bullshit, but sometimes they trick someone useful into commenting | 21:38 |
| kanzure | that's how i found QuantumG (who now hates me, but whatever) | 21:38 |
| nmz787 | i;ve never heard of the site before | 21:41 |
| kanzure | it's not worth your time | 21:41 |
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| fenn | nmz787: librecad is just qcad minus some non-free fonts and stuff | 21:53 |
| fenn | "QCad has been removed from wheezy for depending on qt3 and containing non-distributable fonts, patterns, libraries, and documentation. LibreCAD is the community-maintained qt4 port of QCad and has superseded Qcad in Debian as the package "librecad"." | 21:55 |
| gene_hacker | why can't somebody just write a decent CAD kernel? | 21:57 |
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| kanzure | because all the people that understand nurbs intersection math happen to be terrible programmers | 21:59 |
| kanzure | i have tried it a few times, but it was difficult for me to envision the correct implementation plus write sane tests for each component at the same time (and if you don't write tests the whole way, then you're screwed...) | 22:01 |
| nmz787 | maybe that's a reason to start with requirements/tests completed first? | 22:13 |
| kanzure | hard to do if you don't know the full implementation | 22:15 |
| kanzure | it's not just line/line intersection stuff, it's also tests of the weirdo polynomial curve subdivision magic, knots, etc | 22:16 |
| kanzure | here's a basic one.. http://diyhpl.us/wiki/cad/boole/ | 22:16 |
| ParahSailin | lol qq | 22:17 |
| ParahSailin | yeah weixin is the only popular one now | 22:17 |
| gene_hacker | yup, all that math is pretty weird | 22:17 |
| gene_hacker | or someone could just fix that open cascade | 22:18 |
| kanzure | gene_hacker: i started looking more closely at opencascade's implementation, http://diyhpl.us/wiki/cad/opencascade/ | 22:18 |
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| fenn | qcad/librecad works fine for what it does; we don't always need a super mongo ultra complexicated solution | 22:18 |
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| fenn | i'd rather have an "embedded qcad" than having to learn how opencascade does it | 22:20 |
| fenn | of course parametric stuff gets complicated | 22:20 |
| fenn | qcad should be parametric anyway | 22:21 |
| gradstudentbot | You used the wrong formula. | 22:22 |
| kanzure | i got stuck tracing opencascade's intersection routine somewhere around "pave blocks", see http://diyhpl.us/wiki/cad/opencascade/#BRepAlgo_BOP | 22:23 |
| kanzure | by "see" i mean don't click it will haunt you | 22:32 |
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| kanzure | joepie91_: poke.. | 22:59 |
| joepie91_ | morning | 23:00 |
| * joepie91_ boots up brain | 23:00 | |
| kanzure | paranoia stuff? | 23:00 |
| joepie91_ | hmm? | 23:00 |
| kanzure | just bugging you | 23:01 |
| joepie91_ | oh | 23:01 |
| joepie91_ | derp | 23:01 |
| joepie91_ | sorry, brain did not make the connection to pdfparanoia | 23:01 |
| joepie91_ | I read it as actual paranoia :P | 23:01 |
| kanzure | isn't it though | 23:01 |
| joepie91_ | but yeah, I've been learning PDF, and my estimate is that it's just going to be 2 suddenly motivated days of non-stop coding | 23:01 |
| joepie91_ | one for PDF inspector | 23:01 |
| joepie91_ | one for pdfparanoia architecture/plugins | 23:02 |
| joepie91_ | PDF is a surprisingly reasonable format | 23:02 |
| joepie91_ | for something that comes from Adobe | 23:02 |
| kanzure | anything that lets you embed javascript does not sound reasonable | 23:02 |
| joepie91_ | kanzure: HTML ;) | 23:02 |
| kanzure | html is not reasonable | 23:02 |
| joepie91_ | sure it is | 23:03 |
| joepie91_ | or well | 23:03 |
| joepie91_ | it is /now/ | 23:03 |
| kanzure | you are clearly part of the sgml illuminati | 23:03 |
| joepie91_ | hehe | 23:03 |
| joepie91_ | don't you dare suggest xhtml | 23:03 |
| joepie91_ | that was a disaster | 23:03 |
| kanzure | nope | 23:03 |
| joepie91_ | clear case of correctness trumping usability | 23:03 |
| joepie91_ | (where "correctness" is very subjective) | 23:04 |
| joepie91_ | anyway, kanzure, I should be able to hack pdf.js into a full-blown inspector | 23:04 |
| joepie91_ | which would take care of the object highlighting and all that stuff | 23:04 |
| kanzure | is there a way to trick mozilla people into maintaining that inspector aspect | 23:04 |
| joepie91_ | in pdf.js viewer, you maen? | 23:05 |
| joepie91_ | mean * | 23:05 |
| kanzure | yeah | 23:05 |
| joepie91_ | perhaps | 23:05 |
| joepie91_ | I've found the devs to be very receptive to tickets | 23:05 |
| kanzure | it is always nice when people who aren't yourownself end up maintaining stuff | 23:05 |
| joepie91_ | generally a good sign | 23:05 |
| joepie91_ | so not excluding the possibility that I could eventually integrate it into the default viewer and pull-request it back | 23:05 |
| joepie91_ | the architecture of pdf.js already more or less facilitates it | 23:06 |
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| joepie91_ | (the viewer doesn't, though) | 23:07 |
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| kanzure | nmz787: you should take measurements on the microscope's ocular ports and projector's exit port, and then tell me those numbers, so that i can figure out adapter things | 23:10 |
| kanzure | also pics of those two's ports would help (but the measurements are more important i think) | 23:11 |
| * joepie91_ slowly wakes up | 23:14 | |
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| kanzure | oh good, someone tested using 35 mm film negatives for microfabrication: | 23:42 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/optics/photolithography/Simple%20photolithographic%20rapid%20prototyping%20of%20microfluidic%20chips.pdf | 23:42 |
| heath | thanks for the advice nmz787 | 23:46 |
| kanzure | "However, the method is limited to larger features (greater than 50 microns) and low aspect ratios (1:3)" | 23:48 |
| kanzure | well, how much greater than 50? >:( | 23:48 |
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| heath | nice link | 23:53 |
| --- Log closed Thu Jun 12 00:00:32 2014 | ||
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