| --- Log opened Wed Jun 25 00:00:45 2014 | ||
| -!- entelechy [~elysium@186.176.35.33] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] | 00:00 | |
| -!- petraya [~asakharov@24.60.79.55] has quit [Quit: quit] | 00:07 | |
| -!- EnLilaSko [EnLilaSko@unaffiliated/enlilasko] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 00:21 | |
| -!- strangewarp_ [~strangewa@c-67-176-51-230.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] | 00:30 | |
| -!- eligrey [~eligrey@oftn/board/eligrey] has quit [Quit: Leaving] | 01:23 | |
| -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 01:23 | |
| -!- sapiosexual [~sapiosexu@d75-156-90-46.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] | 01:23 | |
| -!- mokstar [~Mookaborb@unaffiliated/mokstar] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 01:26 | |
| -!- ielo [~ielo@host-89-243-47-30.as13285.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 01:39 | |
| -!- gene_hacker [~chatzilla@c-24-20-19-199.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 30.0/20140605174243]] | 01:48 | |
| -!- moktsar [~Mookaborb@c-24-21-241-171.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 01:57 | |
| -!- ElixirVitae [~Shehrazad@unaffiliated/shehrazad] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] | 02:01 | |
| -!- mosasaur [~mosasaur@unaffiliated/mosasaur] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 02:03 | |
| -!- strangewarp [~strangewa@c-50-183-58-192.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 02:29 | |
| -!- ElixirVitae [~Shehrazad@unaffiliated/shehrazad] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 02:45 | |
| -!- mosasaur [~mosasaur@unaffiliated/mosasaur] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] | 02:51 | |
| -!- [nsh] [~unf@wikipedia/nsh] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 02:59 | |
| -!- [nsh] [~unf@wikipedia/nsh] has quit [Quit: Leaving] | 03:52 | |
| -!- [nsh] [~unf@wikipedia/nsh] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 03:53 | |
| -!- [nsh] [~unf@wikipedia/nsh] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] | 03:54 | |
| -!- ElixirVitae [~Shehrazad@unaffiliated/shehrazad] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] | 03:54 | |
| -!- [nsh] [~unf@wikipedia/nsh] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 03:55 | |
| -!- drewbot [~cinch@ec2-54-237-237-58.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 03:55 | |
| -!- drewbot [~cinch@ec2-54-211-157-103.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 03:55 | |
| -!- [nsh] [~unf@wikipedia/nsh] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] | 03:56 | |
| -!- [nsh] [~unf@wikipedia/nsh] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 03:56 | |
| -!- yorick [~yorick@oftn/member/yorick] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 04:25 | |
| -!- AshleyWaffle [~waffle@gateway/tor-sasl/anastasiawyatt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 04:29 | |
| -!- AshleyWaffle [~waffle@gateway/tor-sasl/anastasiawyatt] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 04:30 | |
| -!- ElixirVitae [~Shehrazad@unaffiliated/shehrazad] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 04:33 | |
| -!- Guest92127 [~abe@c-71-192-163-80.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] | 04:54 | |
| -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-60-231-178-117.lns4.dav.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] | 04:55 | |
| -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-60-231-178-117.lns4.dav.bigpond.net.au] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 05:00 | |
| -!- ielo [~ielo@host-89-243-47-30.as13285.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] | 05:07 | |
| -!- seba-- [~hel1@cpe-90-157-233-7.static.amis.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] | 05:08 | |
| -!- seba- [~hel1@cpe-90-157-233-7.static.amis.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 05:08 | |
| -!- Shehrazad [~Shehrazad@78.162.42.102] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 05:19 | |
| -!- Shehrazad [~Shehrazad@78.162.42.102] has quit [Changing host] | 05:19 | |
| -!- Shehrazad [~Shehrazad@unaffiliated/shehrazad] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 05:19 | |
| -!- ElixirVitae [~Shehrazad@unaffiliated/shehrazad] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] | 05:21 | |
| kanzure | paperbot: http://stm.sciencemag.org/content/4/161/161ra151 | 05:23 |
|---|---|---|
| paperbot | http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1126%2Fscitranslmed.3004685 | 05:24 |
| kanzure | "It was discovered that LibreOffice unconditionally executed certain VBA macros, contrary to user expectations." (CVE-2014-0247) | 05:33 |
| -!- ielo [~ielo@host-89-243-47-30.as13285.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 05:33 | |
| -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 06:02 | |
| ebowden | paperbot: http://stm.sciencemag.org/content/4/161/161ra151.full.pdf | 06:15 |
| paperbot | http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1126%2Fscitranslmed.3004685 | 06:15 |
| ebowden | Damn. | 06:16 |
| EnLilaSko | Does anyone here know Chinese? | 06:17 |
| ebowden | Don't know. | 06:20 |
| -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-135-94-6.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 06:20 | |
| ebowden | EnLilaSko, I know someone who knows 4 languages, and could, if he were inclined, translate for you. | 06:22 |
| ebowden | What do you need translated? | 06:23 |
| EnLilaSko | It's quite a lot, but I just want to know the "basics" of it | 06:23 |
| EnLilaSko | http://imgur.com/a/7RMhr#3FAtj27 | 06:23 |
| EnLilaSko | All pics | 06:23 |
| ebowden | He's doing something now. | 06:27 |
| ebowden | Not really sure what. | 06:27 |
| EnLilaSko | No problem at all, I'm always here ;) | 06:30 |
| ebowden | So, are you a biologist of some sort, out of curiosity? | 06:31 |
| EnLilaSko | I'm not in uni yet (well, studied random courses at 75%), but will start molecular biology soon | 06:31 |
| ebowden | Ah, ok. | 06:32 |
| EnLilaSko | This was just to play with CES, see if it enhances sleep | 06:32 |
| ebowden | Now, so you know, this guy has an IQ of over 140, and is a recent champion in his uni debate circuit, but he's out of practice and doped up to the eyeballs on opiates after surgery, so don't go expecting miracles. | 06:34 |
| EnLilaSko | lol | 06:34 |
| EnLilaSko | Sure | 06:34 |
| ebowden | So, what exactly are those pictures of? | 06:35 |
| -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 06:35 | |
| -!- Viper168_ [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] | 06:38 | |
| ebowden | Ah, he says he's still looking through it, and that the opiates have taken his IQ down to "Ray Comfort level.". | 06:39 |
| ebowden | He also says what if you want this whole thing translated it's going to take a while. | 06:40 |
| ebowden | EnLilaSko? | 06:41 |
| EnLilaSko | The pictures are of a manual | 06:41 |
| EnLilaSko | I just want to know about the modes | 06:41 |
| EnLilaSko | You can press up/down to decide frequency, I want to know how that part works | 06:42 |
| kanzure | yes we have a few mandarin people | 06:42 |
| kanzure | don't ask to ask, lest you wish to be cursed with irc black magic | 06:42 |
| -!- cyborg_ [~cyborg@cpe-70-113-84-109.austin.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 06:42 | |
| kanzure | cyborg_: hello | 06:42 |
| cyborg_ | salutations | 06:43 |
| kanzure | .g 70.113 "kanzure" | 06:43 |
| yoleaux | http://gnusha.org/logs/html/2008-04-01.log.html | 06:43 |
| ebowden | EnLilaSko, awaiting his reply. | 06:43 |
| kanzure | .py print (0x4671546D - 0x46713670) | 06:44 |
| yoleaux | 7677 | 06:44 |
| kanzure | cyborg_: according to my math, you are presently down the street from me | 06:44 |
| kanzure | so please shut off the water | 06:44 |
| ebowden | EnLilaSko, he's working on the relevant section now. | 06:46 |
| cyborg_ | kanzure, prove it :) | 06:48 |
| kanzure | what brings you here? | 06:50 |
| cyborg_ | kanzure, and dont be a creep and ring my door bell. lol | 06:51 |
| kanzure | so you're saying i should ring it before i come in, so that i don't be a creep? | 06:51 |
| kanzure | woudn't it be easier if you just invite me inside? | 06:51 |
| cyborg_ | kanzure, just looking for someone that may be able to assist me with a USB Midi device thast does not have supported drivers in ubuntu. | 06:51 |
| kanzure | you'll probably have to write your own drivers | 06:52 |
| cyborg_ | kanzure, iwould like to bind a generic driver to it and see it's functionality and then possibly dev a new driver | 06:52 |
| cyborg_ | hehe | 06:53 |
| ebowden | Huh, cyborg_, you're right near kanzure, the guy apparently famous for beating the FDA with his whiffle bat of justice. | 06:53 |
| ebowden | Interesting. | 06:53 |
| kanzure | .d whiffle bat | 06:53 |
| yoleaux | Sorry, I couldn't find a definition for 'whiffle bat'. | 06:53 |
| kanzure | .ud whiffle | 06:53 |
| kanzure | .u whiffle | 06:53 |
| yoleaux | No characters found | 06:53 |
| kanzure | hm! | 06:54 |
| ParahSailin | it is warranty | 06:54 |
| cyborg_ | ParahSailin, im guessing you are asking if it is still under warranty | 06:55 |
| ebowden | Kanzure, it is the colloquial name for those large inflatable bats that are given to children in showbags. | 06:55 |
| cyborg_ | ParahSailin, answer would be no | 06:55 |
| ParahSailin | the chinese posted is a warranty | 06:55 |
| ParahSailin | i guess if you want to whole thing, just ocr it | 06:55 |
| kanzure | does chinese ocr work? | 06:55 |
| ebowden | EnLilaSko, he would like to know how soon you need the translation. | 06:56 |
| EnLilaSko | Whenever he feels like it | 06:56 |
| EnLilaSko | No need for it now | 06:56 |
| ParahSailin | chinese ocr works fine http://www.newocr.com/ | 06:58 |
| -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-60-231-178-117.lns4.dav.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] | 06:58 | |
| -!- ebowden_ [~ebowden@CPE-60-231-178-117.lns4.dav.bigpond.net.au] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 06:58 | |
| cyborg_ | soooo..... anyone game to help out | 06:59 |
| kanzure | don't ask to ask | 06:59 |
| seba- | is anyone into cancer | 06:59 |
| ebowden_ | EnLilaSko by now, you mean at the moment? | 06:59 |
| ebowden_ | (Not that you don't actually need it anymore.) | 06:59 |
| EnLilaSko | By this week | 06:59 |
| EnLilaSko | By this month | 06:59 |
| kanzure | seba-: you should say which specific form of cancer you're talking about | 07:00 |
| cyborg_ | seba-, sorry all out of cancer for the moment | 07:00 |
| seba- | no like, cancer research | 07:00 |
| kanzure | which specific cancer are you talking about | 07:00 |
| ebowden_ | Bread cancer. | 07:00 |
| ebowden_ | :D | 07:00 |
| cyborg_ | cheese cancer | 07:00 |
| seba- | oh, well my grandma was diagnosed with cancer a few months ago, that kind of got me into this, it's kind of interesting | 07:01 |
| seba- | mantle cell lymphoma | 07:01 |
| seba- | it's a rather rare one, cyclin D1 overexpression, b-cells | 07:01 |
| seba- | hm | 07:01 |
| ParahSailin | they giving her the fancy new antibody drugs? | 07:01 |
| seba- | ParahSailin yes | 07:01 |
| seba- | but those aren't really new | 07:01 |
| ParahSailin | oh yeah, which? | 07:01 |
| seba- | they are 10y+ old | 07:01 |
| seba- | rituximab of course | 07:01 |
| seba- | well she is "cured" as in went into full remission | 07:02 |
| kanzure | what you need is a targeted inhibitor of phosphatidylinositol-4,5-bisphosphate 3-kinase catalytic subunit delta isoform | 07:02 |
| seba- | but of course i doubt that will last | 07:02 |
| EnLilaSko | Does not seem to work that well ParahSailin | 07:02 |
| seba- | i'm looking at curcumin, it seems a good thing | 07:02 |
| EnLilaSko | Unless this is English | 07:02 |
| EnLilaSko | ga&aEmmm.§m§?mma%.zg: | 07:02 |
| seba- | but very low bioavailability | 07:02 |
| ParahSailin | bro, click the box, make it do chinese instead of english | 07:02 |
| seba- | does anyone have access to this | 07:03 |
| seba- | https://www.thieme-connect.com/products/ejournals/abstract/10.1055/s-2006-957450 | 07:03 |
| EnLilaSko | Oh, I thought it was what language I wanted it translated too | 07:03 |
| seba- | i'm wondering if the dose is oral or something else | 07:03 |
| seba- | it doesn't say in the abstract | 07:03 |
| kanzure | is this one of those cancers that has very large tumors? or is this one of those "haha you're fucked it's everywhere, but not yet metastatized" cancers? | 07:03 |
| seba- | kanzure, 2nd | 07:03 |
| kanzure | paperbot: https://www.thieme-connect.com/products/ejournals/abstract/10.1055/s-2006-957450 | 07:04 |
| ebowden_ | seba- Have you heard of any new curcumin derivatives? | 07:04 |
| paperbot | ConnectionError: HTTPSConnectionPool(host='www.thieme.connect.com', port=443): Max retries exceeded with url: /products/ejournals/abstract/10.1055/s-2006-957450 (Caused by <class 'socket.gaierror'>: [Errno -2] Name or service not known) (file "/usr/local/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/requests/adapters.py", line 375, in send) | 07:04 |
| kanzure | seba-: you will have more success treating cancers that are isolated to tumors | 07:04 |
| ebowden_ | Also, seba_, curcumin can be made a lot more bioavailable if administered with piperine. | 07:04 |
| seba- | ebowden_, well i'm looking at something "natural" | 07:04 |
| ebowden_ | A LOT more bioavailable. | 07:04 |
| seba- | ebowden_, yes, i gave the link, but i can't find if it's oral | 07:04 |
| seba- | it doesn't say | 07:04 |
| -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 07:05 | |
| ebowden_ | Oh jeez, "natural"? You're not one of those are you? | 07:05 |
| seba- | kanzure, MCL (mantle cell lymphoma) is treatable in vitro with curcumin | 07:05 |
| EnLilaSko | That's awesome ParahSailin, thanks! | 07:05 |
| seba- | ebowden_, no, i'm not | 07:05 |
| ebowden_ | Anyway, yes, it drastically increases oral bioavailability. | 07:05 |
| -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 07:05 | |
| seba- | ebowden_, but natural has many pluses | 07:05 |
| cyborg_ | wow i wish had known y'all when my dad was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer | 07:05 |
| ebowden_ | Oh boy. | 07:05 |
| ParahSailin | everything is treatable in vitro | 07:06 |
| seba- | ParahSailin, yes | 07:06 |
| seba- | ebowden_, well for starters if it's natural it means usually that it's cheap+easily accessible | 07:06 |
| ebowden_ | Anyway, piperine can be found in a LOT of spicy foods. | 07:06 |
| ParahSailin | so whats the deal with newer antibody drugs like ipilimumab | 07:06 |
| seba- | ebowden_, yeah i've already extracted piperine once | 07:06 |
| ebowden_ | Well, there you go. Piperine and Curcumin, they go great together. | 07:07 |
| kanzure | .wik ipilimumab | 07:07 |
| yoleaux | "Ipilimumab (i pi lim′ ue mab; also known as MDX-010 and MDX-101), marketed as Yervoy, is a drug used for the treatment of cancer. It is approved by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) for the treatment of melanoma, a type of skin cancer." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ipilimumab | 07:07 |
| seba- | ebowden_, also if she takes a natural compound it's more likely to get doctor's support | 07:07 |
| gradstudentbot | Well, I can't really talk about it because I'm trying to get it published in Science or Nature. | 07:07 |
| ParahSailin | how do you get more natural than an antibody | 07:07 |
| kanzure | haha doctor's support | 07:08 |
| seba- | ParahSailin, she's already taking those, rituximab | 07:08 |
| kanzure | "not only do i want to cure cancer, but i also want approval from my local doctor" | 07:08 |
| kanzure | .wik rituximab | 07:08 |
| yoleaux | "Rituximab (trade names Rituxan, MabThera and Zytux) is a chimeric monoclonal antibody against the protein CD20, which is primarily found on the surface of immune system B cells. Rituximab destroys B cells and is therefore used to treat diseases which are characterized by excessive numbers of B cells, overactive B cells, or dysfunctional B cells." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rituximab | 07:08 |
| ebowden_ | LOL | 07:08 |
| gradstudentbot | Let's pour a bunch of chemlights into a spinner flask and claim it's luminescent e.coli. | 07:08 |
| seba- | well if it would be for me | 07:08 |
| seba- | i wouldn't really care | 07:08 |
| seba- | i would be willing to take highly experimental non-"natural" crap | 07:09 |
| ParahSailin | seba-: can they get her the newer one i linked? | 07:09 |
| ebowden_ | Anyho. Your grandma wants something "natural"? | 07:09 |
| seba- | ParahSailin, why would she take that one | 07:09 |
| kanzure | ebowden_: you need to learn to read better | 07:10 |
| kanzure | ebowden_: he already went over that. the answer is no. | 07:10 |
| seba- | ebowden_, not really, but she doesn't want something highly experimental | 07:10 |
| seba- | that could cause more harm than good | 07:10 |
| ParahSailin | anti ctla4 works on the host immune system to make it attack cancer cells | 07:10 |
| seba- | ParahSailin, doesn't seem to be for the type she has or a b-cell type | 07:11 |
| ParahSailin | erm, you are not reading | 07:11 |
| seba- | ParahSailin, anyway you have ibrutinib, which is rather ok, but not yet totally available in europe | 07:11 |
| ParahSailin | anti ctla4 works on the host immune system to make it attack cancer cells | 07:11 |
| kanzure | i think we're just surrounded by idiots who don't read | 07:11 |
| kanzure | this is insufferable. why the fuck am i here. | 07:12 |
| ParahSailin | it works on t cells, to make them attack other kinds of cells | 07:12 |
| ParahSailin | so a t cell can attack a b cell, despite having a different first letter | 07:12 |
| EnLilaSko | Lol, 90% of the pages seem to be sales letter | 07:12 |
| seba- | ParahSailin, uhm, rituximab works the same way anyway | 07:12 |
| EnLilaSko | Assuming the site can view it properly | 07:12 |
| ParahSailin | nope, anti-cd20 just destroys b cells directly | 07:13 |
| seba- | hm | 07:14 |
| ParahSailin | which is kind of confusing i guess, when in one drug, the immune cells are the bad guy, and in another drug, immune cells are the good guy to be modulated by a fancy drug | 07:14 |
| seba- | let's see if MCL has this CTLA-4 | 07:15 |
| ebowden_ | I read that anti-inflammatory drugs, whilst controlling the side effects, didn't adversely affect the survival rates. | 07:16 |
| ParahSailin | god, you are still not reading | 07:17 |
| ParahSailin | all ctl cells have ctla-4 | 07:18 |
| ParahSailin | if she doesnt have ctl cells, she has bigger problems than cancer | 07:18 |
| seba- | oh apparently ipilimumab is available | 07:19 |
| seba- | ParahSailin ok i read now better lol | 07:21 |
| seba- | interesting stuff | 07:22 |
| seba- | isn't there any small molecule agent to do this | 07:22 |
| seba- | lol | 07:22 |
| seba- | preferably some from a spice! | 07:22 |
| seba- | this could be a fun project | 07:24 |
| seba- | finding a small molecule, that inhibits CTLA-4 :D | 07:24 |
| seba- | anyway | 07:26 |
| seba- | i'll try curcumin / piperine | 07:26 |
| seba- | maybe it works | 07:26 |
| seba- | http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0006295205002418 | 07:26 |
| kanzure | .title | 07:27 |
| yoleaux | Curcumin (diferuloylmethane) inhibits constitutive NF-κB activation, induces G1/S arrest, suppresses proliferation, and induces apoptosis in mantle cell lymphoma | 07:27 |
| kanzure | haha good job ignoring ParahSailin | 07:27 |
| kanzure | way to go | 07:27 |
| ParahSailin | ask the doctor why he doesnt give her the newest stuff | 07:28 |
| seba- | ParahSailin, i think because it's not an agent within the established doctrine of treating this type of cancer | 07:29 |
| seba- | ParahSailin, i think i'll have to wait that she gets the cancer back, then i will try to request ipilimumab + rituximab + ibrutinib combo. | 07:36 |
| seba- | oh well | 07:40 |
| kanzure | why a combination?? | 07:40 |
| seba- | kanzure, because it works better! | 07:41 |
| kanzure | uh... evidence? | 07:41 |
| seba- | well the ipilimumab + rituximab is currently in clinical trials | 07:41 |
| seba- | ibrutinib + rituximab has passed and works much better | 07:41 |
| seba- | anyway, this curcumin/piperine seems promising for the mean while hm | 07:44 |
| seba- | oh | 08:01 |
| seba- | hypericin also inhibits NF-κB | 08:01 |
| seba- | fun | 08:01 |
| seba- | or not | 08:02 |
| seba- | maybe i'm again not reading lol | 08:02 |
| -!- Twey [~twey@unaffiliated/twey] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] | 08:03 | |
| -!- Twey [~twey@unaffiliated/twey] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 08:04 | |
| archels | EnLilaSko: out of interest, which device did you get? | 08:13 |
| EnLilaSko | I'll try to find it again, 2 sec | 08:13 |
| EnLilaSko | archels: http://www.aliexpress.com/snapshot/312098992.html | 08:15 |
| archels | ha, that's pretty barebones | 08:17 |
| archels | don't suppose you're planning on reverse engineering it? | 08:17 |
| -!- Shehrazad [~Shehrazad@unaffiliated/shehrazad] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 08:17 | |
| EnLilaSko | Nah, don't have any skills for that | 08:17 |
| EnLilaSko | Would love a proper unit though, ofc | 08:18 |
| chris_99 | what's the aliexpress thing do | 08:18 |
| chris_99 | i mean the sleeping aid thing | 08:18 |
| kanzure | .title | 08:19 |
| yoleaux | Wholesale Product Snapshot Product name is Sleeping electronic meter household multifunctional digital meridian therapy instrument sleeping physiotherapy | 08:19 |
| EnLilaSko | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cranial_electrotherapy_stimulation | 08:19 |
| chris_99 | aha | 08:20 |
| -!- ebowden_ [~ebowden@CPE-60-231-178-117.lns4.dav.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] | 08:20 | |
| -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-60-231-178-117.lns4.dav.bigpond.net.au] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 08:21 | |
| * archels wonders if the Chinese have caught on to using 'meridian' as a euphemism for 'orgasm' | 08:25 | |
| kanzure | .ud meridian | 08:26 |
| * kanzure looks at yoleaux sternly | 08:26 | |
| archels | as in, ASMR | 08:28 |
| seba- | https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/results/NCT00113841?term=curcumin&rank=12§=X7430156 | 08:30 |
| seba- | oh cool | 08:30 |
| kanzure | .title | 08:31 |
| yoleaux | kanzure: Sorry, that command (.title) took too long to process. | 08:32 |
| seba- | kanzure, it's a piperine/curcumine trial on multiple myeloma, which is close enough | 08:35 |
| ParahSailin | combos always work better | 08:37 |
| ParahSailin | throw in DCA while you're at it | 08:39 |
| ParahSailin | you can get that from hindustan | 08:39 |
| seba- | ParahSailin, i was thinking about DCA yes, but i'm not sure it would work for this type of cancer | 08:40 |
| ParahSailin | only one way to find out | 08:41 |
| seba- | ParahSailin, what would you do? | 08:44 |
| ParahSailin | get a grip of drugs and crunk her? | 08:46 |
| seba- | lol | 08:46 |
| seba- | ParahSailin, well she's without cancer atm | 08:46 |
| ParahSailin | you can't sue yourself for malpractice, so you have more freedom to do the right stuff | 08:47 |
| seba- | i know | 08:47 |
| seba- | i think i could try curcumin/piperine for few months | 08:47 |
| seba- | that seems rather cheap+safe+effective | 08:48 |
| ParahSailin | why not | 08:49 |
| seba- | i'll do that | 08:51 |
| seba- | i just don't know if it's cheaper/better for me to extract curcumin | 08:51 |
| seba- | or to buy it extracted | 08:51 |
| seba- | lol | 08:51 |
| ParahSailin | if that worked then i would expect low cancer rates in malaysia | 08:51 |
| seba- | ParahSailin, i don't think it works for all cancers and also the doses are quite high | 08:53 |
| seba- | ~4 g/day of curcumin | 08:53 |
| -!- augur [~augur@216-164-48-148.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] | 09:01 | |
| -!- augur [~augur@216-164-48-148.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 09:02 | |
| dbolser | seba-: bio-reactor using plant stem cells? | 09:07 |
| seba- | dbolser, for? | 09:07 |
| seba- | oh you mean for growing curcumin | 09:09 |
| -!- ielo [~ielo@host-89-243-47-30.as13285.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] | 09:12 | |
| seba- | shitty cancers | 09:20 |
| seba- | why isn't there any cool cure | 09:20 |
| kanzure | you mean poop cancer? sucks | 09:20 |
| kanzure | well, tumors have some pretty neat cures | 09:20 |
| kanzure | "blast a lot of high-frequency radiation at this target and then it explodes" | 09:21 |
| seba- | DCA is cool of course | 09:21 |
| seba- | lol | 09:21 |
| -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 09:24 | |
| kanzure | http://www.freelists.org/list/corkbiomakerspace | 09:26 |
| ParahSailin | rm: cannot remove `_130812_M01612_v_AAER01.bam': No space left on device | 09:26 |
| seba- | why aren't here 10 cancer researchers | 09:28 |
| kanzure | "like gofmt, except for brainfuck" https://github.com/eteeselink/bffmt | 09:28 |
| -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-60-231-178-117.lns4.dav.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 09:41 | |
| -!- Jaakko911 [~Jaakko@77.98.240.65] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 09:58 | |
| -!- Jaakko910 [~Jaakko@cpc13-newc15-2-0-cust64.16-2.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] | 09:58 | |
| -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 10:00 | |
| -!- superkuh [~superkuh@unaffiliated/superkuh] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] | 10:20 | |
| -!- superkuh [~superkuh@unaffiliated/superkuh] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 10:21 | |
| -!- superkuh [~superkuh@unaffiliated/superkuh] has quit [Excess Flood] | 10:24 | |
| -!- superkuh [~superkuh@unaffiliated/superkuh] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 10:25 | |
| -!- nmz787_i [nmccorkx@nat/intel/x-djcmwbaiqgmdukyd] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 10:50 | |
| -!- nmz787_i1 [nmccorkx@nat/intel/x-engqfwkqhiiopozr] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 10:51 | |
| -!- ielo [~ielo@host-89-243-47-30.as13285.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 10:52 | |
| -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-135-94-6.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] | 10:52 | |
| -!- nmz787_i [nmccorkx@nat/intel/x-djcmwbaiqgmdukyd] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] | 10:54 | |
| kanzure | https://github.com/Pacmanfan/UVDLPSlicerController | 11:19 |
| kanzure | https://github.com/Pacmanfan/UVDLPSlicerController/blob/master/UVDLP/Software/Firmware/Sprinter-master/Sprinter/thermistortables.h | 11:19 |
| -!- ielo_ [~ielo@host-89-243-47-30.as13285.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 11:19 | |
| nmz787_i1 | why are those LUTs interesting? | 11:28 |
| kanzure | .d LUT | 11:28 |
| yoleaux | Sorry, I couldn't find a definition for 'LUT'. | 11:28 |
| nmz787_i1 | .d lookup table | 11:29 |
| yoleaux | Sorry, I couldn't find a definition for 'lookup table'. | 11:29 |
| nmz787_i1 | .wik LUT | 11:29 |
| yoleaux | "Lut may refer to:" — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LUT | 11:29 |
| nmz787_i1 | .wik lookup table | 11:29 |
| yoleaux | "In computer science, a lookup table is an array that replaces runtime computation with a simpler array indexing operation. The savings in terms of processing time can be significant, since retrieving a value from memory is often faster than undergoing an 'expensive' computation or input/output operation." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lookup_table | 11:29 |
| kanzure | oh, well, i'm just not sure why it's a lookup table at all in the first place | 11:29 |
| nmz787_i1 | calibration most likely | 11:31 |
| kanzure | alright | 11:32 |
| -!- seba- [~hel1@cpe-90-157-233-7.static.amis.net] has quit [Changing host] | 11:44 | |
| -!- seba- [~hel1@unaffiliated/seba-] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 11:44 | |
| -!- [nsh] [~unf@wikipedia/nsh] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] | 12:30 | |
| -!- [nsh] [~unf@wikipedia/nsh] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 12:37 | |
| -!- [nsh] [~unf@wikipedia/nsh] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] | 12:49 | |
| -!- nmz787_i1 [nmccorkx@nat/intel/x-engqfwkqhiiopozr] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] | 12:52 | |
| -!- nmz787_i [~nmccorkx@192.55.55.41] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 12:52 | |
| -!- [nsh] [~unf@wikipedia/nsh] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 12:53 | |
| -!- [nsh] [~unf@wikipedia/nsh] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] | 12:54 | |
| -!- [nsh] [~unf@wikipedia/nsh] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 12:56 | |
| kanzure | Workplane("front").box(1,1,1).cut(Workplane("front").center(-1, -1).circle(1).extrude(3)) | 13:21 |
| kanzure | well that's not right.. | 13:21 |
| -!- Burnin8 [~Burn@pool-173-66-15-196.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 13:22 | |
| kanzure | mvhttp://heybryan.org/shots/2014-06-25-152439-freecad-cadquery.png | 13:24 |
| kanzure | oops | 13:24 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/shots/2014-06-25-152439-freecad-cadquery.png | 13:24 |
| dingo | well thats interesting | 13:24 |
| dingo | thats a lot like the abaqus-cae console i programmed in long ago | 13:25 |
| dingo | i really liked that, python console at the bottom | 13:25 |
| -!- Burninate [~Burn@pool-173-66-15-196.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] | 13:26 | |
| kanzure | pythonocc has a repl + visualizer without all the other gui junk | 13:26 |
| kanzure | (uses ipython in qt-loop-mode) | 13:26 |
| dingo | oh nice | 13:26 |
| kanzure | i was aiming for a hole through the center of the cube | 13:27 |
| -!- eridu [~eridu@gateway/tor-sasl/eridu] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 13:35 | |
| kanzure | Workplane("front").rect(1, 1).circle(0.25).extrude(1) | 13:36 |
| kanzure | that worked (for hole through a cube) | 13:36 |
| -!- eridu [~eridu@gateway/tor-sasl/eridu] has quit [Client Quit] | 13:37 | |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/cadqueryfail.0001.svg | 13:44 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/cadqueryfail.0001.html | 13:45 |
| kanzure | hm.. that did not tessellate well. | 13:45 |
| dpk | paperbot: http://ijl.oxfordjournals.org/content/19/1/99.abstract | 13:48 |
| paperbot | http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1093%2Fijl%2Feci053 | 13:48 |
| kanzure | so much for delinquentme's code | 13:49 |
| dpk | ugh, i can't even get that with my samizdat ezproxy account | 13:53 |
| kanzure | dpk: have some more, https://raw.githubusercontent.com/kanzure/ezproxy-urls/master/urls.txt | 13:53 |
| dpk | things i will never understand: why anyone thought that making academic papers difficult to access would be a good idea | 13:54 |
| kanzure | because librarians sold out | 13:54 |
| dpk | i was amused to find out the other day that papers with open access are more likely to be cited | 13:54 |
| dpk | by a statistically significant amount | 13:55 |
| chris_99 | hehe | 13:55 |
| -!- ElixirVitae [~Shehrazad@78.174.33.58] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 13:56 | |
| -!- ElixirVitae [~Shehrazad@78.174.33.58] has quit [Changing host] | 13:56 | |
| -!- ElixirVitae [~Shehrazad@unaffiliated/shehrazad] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 13:56 | |
| dpk | it's a somewhat horrifying thought, though | 13:56 |
| dpk | that what's influencing the direction in which science develops is not necessarily what is worthwhile, or well-researched, or otherwise generally good | 13:57 |
| kanzure | oh please, the availability of grant money highly constrains research too | 13:57 |
| dpk | but rather, whether researchers can be bothered to log into their ezproxy/efc accounts | 13:57 |
| dpk | *etc | 13:57 |
| dpk | well, yes | 13:57 |
| dpk | but if you're going to pick one paper of a dozen to cite, you'd hope it'd be the best one judged by its content and not just the one that was easiest to get to | 13:58 |
| dpk | we're spoiled anyway, of course | 13:59 |
| kanzure | when you're blowing the paper submission deadline you usually just pack some citations in anyway | 13:59 |
| dpk | back in ye day, people had to use paper to read their papers! | 13:59 |
| kanzure | "oh that paper from greg's lab a few minutes ago sounded cool" | 13:59 |
| -!- moktsar [~Mookaborb@c-24-21-241-171.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] | 13:59 | |
| dpk | hehe. yes | 13:59 |
| kanzure | "lemme just cite that" | 13:59 |
| dpk | the grant money problem is the bigger one, i concede | 14:00 |
| cluckj | gradstudentbot, what do you think about open access journals | 14:02 |
| gradstudentbot | Yeah, that's a reasonable explanation. | 14:02 |
| -!- TeMPOraL [~user@89-68-70-120.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 14:03 | |
| -!- cyborg_ [~cyborg@cpe-70-113-84-109.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 14:04 | |
| dpk | Historical Thesaurus of English is a case-in-point: "the total cost of the Thesaurus was £1.1million in grants (when adjusted for inflation approximately £2.2m/$3.4m in 2010 equivalent), in addition to a good deal of uncosted academic time; a bargain at a little over 1p per word and around 340 words a week!" | 14:05 |
| kanzure | it was written by grant money? | 14:05 |
| dpk | 320,000 person-hours of work | 14:05 |
| kanzure | $1 million bought 320k hours? | 14:06 |
| dpk | .c 2.2 million / 320,000 | 14:06 |
| kanzure | that's not even minimum wage | 14:06 |
| yoleaux | 2200000/320000 = 55/8 | 14:06 |
| dpk | right, most of the time they were working as volunteers | 14:06 |
| kanzure | haha that's dumb | 14:06 |
| kanzure | science labor is fucked up | 14:06 |
| gradstudentbot | Are the marmosets for anyone to use? | 14:06 |
| gradstudentbot | The thing about this particular theory is that it's excellent at predicting ethnic conflicts which have already happened. | 14:06 |
| dpk | .py 55/8 | 14:07 |
| yoleaux | 6 | 14:07 |
| kanzure | .py 55/8.0 | 14:07 |
| yoleaux | 6.875 | 14:07 |
| dpk | ty | 14:07 |
| dpk | £6.88 an hour on average, adjusted for inflation | 14:07 |
| gradstudentbot | I think my e.coli culture got friendzoned. | 14:08 |
| * dpk pets gradstudentbot | 14:08 | |
| gradstudentbot | Should this be on ice? | 14:08 |
| gradstudentbot | Just wait until the ethics review board never hears about this. | 14:09 |
| dpk | boggles the mind that a project which received such huge plaudits, which broke massive new ground in understanding the history of language, should have been done by people earning so little. and it wasn't for want of trying to get more, either | 14:09 |
| kanzure | most labor related to science is very poorly paid | 14:10 |
| * dpk nods | 14:10 | |
| kanzure | i've often wondered what would happen if biologists were paying themselves wages like programmers do | 14:10 |
| kanzure | or lawyers for that matter | 14:10 |
| dpk | but bailing out banks is more important for governments to spend money on than science | 14:11 |
| dpk | because, really, who needs to invent the future when you've got rich people in the present | 14:11 |
| cluckj | or like guns | 14:11 |
| cluckj | or drug advertising | 14:11 |
| kanzure | i'm not convinced that grants are a good idea | 14:11 |
| dpk | why? | 14:11 |
| kanzure | something something markt.. | 14:12 |
| kanzure | *market | 14:12 |
| dpk | the way they work now is fucked up, but they're not per se a bad thing | 14:12 |
| dpk | right | 14:12 |
| dpk | they should fund people, not projects | 14:12 |
| cluckj | something something barriers to entry | 14:12 |
| kanzure | so, first, the line regarding "you can't do blue sky research in the open market because you won't make any money" is bullshit | 14:12 |
| kanzure | that just means that *you* suck at doing research | 14:12 |
| * dpk frowns | 14:13 | |
| dpk | i don't understand | 14:13 |
| kanzure | the common argument for why science should be funded by grants is that there's no other way for people to make money doing science | 14:13 |
| dpk | you mean that people claim that you can't start a new business just to do research because you won't make money? | 14:13 |
| dpk | right | 14:13 |
| gradstudentbot | The autoclave smells really good. | 14:14 |
| dpk | why do people suck at research for saying that, then? | 14:14 |
| dpk | it seems fairly reasonable to me | 14:14 |
| kanzure | it doesn't seem reasonable at all! | 14:14 |
| kanzure | you can do two things at once | 14:15 |
| dpk | if you're inventing the future, making profit with it should not be wasting valuable braintime | 14:15 |
| dpk | until it's actually ready to be madeprofiton | 14:15 |
| kanzure | "making profit" is often seen as an evil activity | 14:15 |
| dpk | i don't think it's an evil activity, but there's a time and a place for business concerns | 14:16 |
| kanzure | where do you think the money i'm paying you comes from? | 14:16 |
| dingo | nafarious characters! | 14:18 |
| dpk | i wouldn't say it's impossible to do blue-sky research in an environment where making profit is going to be a concern | 14:19 |
| dpk | but that kind of environment places constraints on what you can practically do before the money runs out and you need to start making turnover | 14:20 |
| kanzure | hmm i wonder if this is any good http://archive.mises.org/5439/free-market-science-vs-government-science/ | 14:20 |
| -!- mokstar [~Mookaborb@unaffiliated/mokstar] has quit [Quit: Leaving] | 14:20 | |
| dpk | there are advantages and disadvantages to both approaches | 14:20 |
| -!- mokstar [~Mookaborb@c-24-21-241-171.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 14:20 | |
| kanzure | nope that article sucks. damn. | 14:21 |
| -!- mokstar [~Mookaborb@c-24-21-241-171.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] | 14:21 | |
| -!- mokstar [~Mookaborb@unaffiliated/mokstar] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 14:21 | |
| kanzure | so, it's true that large companies often have what seem to be perverse incentives to not focus on anything related to science | 14:22 |
| kanzure | but see innovator's dilemma etc on that front | 14:22 |
| dpk | .tw 392335781374619648 | 14:23 |
| yoleaux | An "Industry vs Research" dichotomy that I sketched at a conference. I probably should elaborate on it sometime. http://t.co/miIaLwUDAv (@worrydream) | 14:23 |
| kanzure | how about this one, | 14:23 |
| kanzure | http://www.cobdencentre.org/2011/01/science-by-the-free-market/ | 14:23 |
| cluckj | eh | 14:24 |
| cluckj | it's all institutional | 14:24 |
| cluckj | state or industry funded | 14:24 |
| kanzure | "Crediting the government for the invention of the internet is like crediting the Pharaohs for the modern Egyptian tourist industry. The fact that the pyramids they built enabled the private sector to detect a market opportunity in modern times does not in any way mean they should be given credit for it.[5] Moreover, in his paper Science, Technology and Government, Rothbard references a study by Jewkes et al that took 61 of the most important ... | 14:26 |
| kanzure | ... inventions of the first half of the twentieth century and found that over half of those were achieved by individual scientists at their own expense.[6] " | 14:26 |
| cluckj | lol | 14:27 |
| cluckj | ugh | 14:27 |
| kanzure | shine a light at a piece of glitter and suddenly you have a nobel prize :V | 14:27 |
| cluckj | "individual scientists" and "their own expense" are really disingenuous phrases | 14:28 |
| kanzure | hm? | 14:28 |
| cluckj | the internet wasn't invented in the first half of the twentieth century either, it's a poor comparison | 14:29 |
| gradstudentbot | Yeah, it's significant. | 14:29 |
| kanzure | "If, however, individuals are allowed to pursue these ideas with their own resources free from government dictation exercising their entrepreneurial judgment, a system is created whereby the scientists particularly receptive to good ideas are rewarded by profits and those who fail to recognize good ideas are rooted out of the system by suffering losses. This profit and loss system is absent in government directed research, meaning that the ... | 14:30 |
| kanzure | ... government is not punished for its failures and inefficiencies and thus may be over-allocating money to bad projects." | 14:30 |
| cluckj | money always comes from somewhere :P | 14:30 |
| dpk | that assumes that all value can be measured in terms of money | 14:31 |
| kanzure | not really | 14:31 |
| kanzure | i can do things on my own that can't be measured in money, without government grants, and still have money | 14:31 |
| cluckj | capitalism presupposes that everything has a monetary value, especially the time you put into projects | 14:32 |
| dpk | sure, and you can be limited to evenings and weekends while working some other job too | 14:32 |
| dpk | and you'll proceed much slower and you'd better not have a family to look after | 14:32 |
| kanzure | actually, no, i have all of the time in the world to myself | 14:33 |
| cluckj | I'm interested in what the proscriptions and political motivations of the people suggesting doing away with government research are | 14:33 |
| kanzure | i think they are just suggesting that market-based research is in fact possible | 14:33 |
| kanzure | there is a very strong opposition to non-academic research/development | 14:33 |
| kanzure | and yet tradesmen are able to do tradestuff outside of college just as they are able to do it inside of the ivory tower.. | 14:34 |
| dpk | for lots of good reasons | 14:34 |
| dpk | companies don't like to share what they've made, for one thing | 14:34 |
| cluckj | there's a lot less distinction between non-academic r&d and academic r&d | 14:34 |
| cluckj | currently, I mean | 14:34 |
| kanzure | this is also interesting, | 14:35 |
| kanzure | http://www.cato-unbound.org/2013/08/05/terence-kealey/case-against-public-science | 14:35 |
| kanzure | it claims that there's been no incentive for anyone to consider non-government-funded science for the past 400 years | 14:35 |
| cluckj | industry and academia are increasingly working together and drawing on each others' research programs | 14:35 |
| cluckj | lol | 14:35 |
| kanzure | "The fundamental problem that bedevils the study of the economics of science is that every contemporary actor in the story is parti pris: every contemporary actor who enters the field starts by pre-assuming that governments should fund science. Such actors are either industrialists looking for corporate welfare, or scholars looking to protect their universities’ income, or scientists (who, frankly, will look for money from any and every ... | 14:35 |
| kanzure | ... source—they are shameless) or economists who assume that knowledge is “non-rivalrous” and only “partially excludable” (which are posh ways of saying that copying is cheap and easy.)" | 14:36 |
| kanzure | "But no contemporary has ever shown empirically that governments need fund science—the assertion has been made only on theoretical grounds. Remarkably, the one economist who did look at the question empirically found that the evidence showed that governments need not fund science, but his claim has been for a long time ignored, because he was notoriously a libertarian—and libertarians have no traction amongst the scholars, politicians, ... | 14:36 |
| kanzure | ... and corporate welfarists who dominate the field. In 1776, moreover, that economist supported a revolution, so he is not only outdated but he was, presumably, subversive of the social order." | 14:36 |
| cluckj | the cato institute is a kind of gross conservative think tank | 14:36 |
| cluckj | I wonder who's funding their research :P | 14:36 |
| kanzure | good to know their bias | 14:37 |
| cluckj | yes it is | 14:37 |
| kanzure | but i believe the point regarding "not much investigation of the actual necessity of only using government grants" is strongly biased because of their conservativism or ick | 14:37 |
| kanzure | *is not strongly biased | 14:37 |
| cluckj | I agree completely that only using government grants to fund science is a bad idea | 14:38 |
| -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] | 14:38 | |
| cluckj | but the political outcome of what they are saying is to get rid of them entirely | 14:38 |
| cluckj | and gut the NSF/NIH | 14:38 |
| dpk | marginally related and looks interesting: https://otherlab.com/blog/post/otherlab-was-in-nature-magazine-this-week | 14:38 |
| cluckj | the more diversity in funding sources, the better | 14:39 |
| dpk | cluckj: ++ | 14:39 |
| kanzure | this one is weird, | 14:39 |
| kanzure | "And the fault in the model lies in one of its fundamental premises, namely that copying other people’s research is cheap and easy. It’s not. Consider industrial technology. When Edwin Mansfield of the University of Pennsylvania examined 48 products that, during the 1970s, had been copied by companies in the chemicals, drugs, electronics, and machinery industries in New England, he found that the costs of copying were on average 65 per ... | 14:39 |
| cluckj | thx | 14:39 |
| kanzure | ... cent of the costs of original invention. And the time taken to copy was, on average, 70 per cent of the time taken by the original invention." | 14:39 |
| kanzure | "more diversity for the sake of diversity" is bullshit | 14:39 |
| cluckj | it's not just for the sake of diversity though | 14:40 |
| chris_99 | mmm | 14:40 |
| -!- heath [~ybit@131.252.130.248] has quit [Changing host] | 14:40 | |
| -!- heath [~ybit@unaffiliated/ybit] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 14:40 | |
| cluckj | it's to allow different kinds of research programs with different requirements and outcomes to flourish | 14:40 |
| chris_99 | it encourages a more balanced research environment | 14:40 |
| cluckj | ^ | 14:40 |
| cluckj | ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ | 14:40 |
| kanzure | "So in 1971, when Harry Collins studied the spread of a technology called the TEA laser, he discovered that the only scientists who succeeded in copying it were those who had visited laboratories where TEA lasers were already up and running: “no-one to whom I have spoken has succeeded in building a TEA laser using written sources (including blueprints and written reports) as the sole source of information.”" | 14:41 |
| dpk | ^^^^^ | 14:41 |
| kanzure | you all suck. what the fuck does "balanced" mean. | 14:41 |
| kanzure | "take some of the old shitty ideas, and some of the new ideas, and just hope that something works eventually" | 14:41 |
| chris_99 | so you're saying you don't want academic funding at all | 14:41 |
| cluckj | harry collins is a nice guy | 14:41 |
| kanzure | chris_99: i am saying that i doubt that government funding is necessary | 14:42 |
| kanzure | .tell fenn "So in 1971, when Harry Collins studied the spread of a technology called the TEA laser, he discovered that the only scientists who succeeded in copying it were those who had visited laboratories where TEA lasers were already up and running: “no-one to whom I have spoken has succeeded in building a TEA laser using written sources (including blueprints and written reports) as the sole source of information.” | 14:42 |
| yoleaux | kanzure: I'll pass your message to fenn. | 14:42 |
| cluckj | in that peice he wrote about the laser, he was talking about tacit knowledge | 14:42 |
| superkuh | Lots of people have succeeded in making TEA lasers using only written information and pictures on the 4hv.org forum. I am one of them. | 14:42 |
| cluckj | piece -_- | 14:42 |
| superkuh | They are certainly tricky though. | 14:42 |
| kanzure | .tell fenn nevermind | 14:42 |
| yoleaux | kanzure: I'll pass your message to fenn. | 14:42 |
| chris_99 | i can't see why you can't have gov. funding and private funding | 14:43 |
| kanzure | what do you mean? | 14:43 |
| cluckj | you should have both kinds of funding | 14:43 |
| kanzure | again my argument was "i doubt that government funding is necessary", not "fuck everyone who gets a grant" | 14:44 |
| cluckj | recently those have been creeping together in a dubious way | 14:44 |
| dpk | i don't see where cluckj cast your argument as being at all to do with fucking everyone who gets a grant | 14:44 |
| cluckj | kanzure, it's not necessary like "NO SCIENCE WILL EVER GET DONE EVER AGAIN" | 14:45 |
| cluckj | it's necessary like "some projects need to not be driven by industry interests" | 14:45 |
| cluckj | it's not necessary for science to function, it's necessary for science to have a diverse set of interests | 14:45 |
| -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 14:46 | |
| cluckj | if you get rid of the NSF/NIH/DOE/etc, you end up with the main source government funding coming from DARPA | 14:46 |
| gradstudentbot | Hah, look at figure 6. That's definitely a little weird. | 14:46 |
| cluckj | which is its own kind of creepiness | 14:46 |
| kanzure | so say i own a company, that has industry interests | 14:47 |
| kanzure | and i'm also working on particle acceleration unrelated to my industry | 14:47 |
| kanzure | why do i have to stop working on particle acceleration? | 14:47 |
| cluckj | huh? | 14:48 |
| cluckj | I don't know, why would you? | 14:48 |
| kanzure | because diversity or something, according to you | 14:49 |
| kanzure | i have to admit i don't understand why government is the only method of interest isolation | 14:49 |
| kanzure | or is a relevant mechanism | 14:49 |
| cluckj | government funding has interests | 14:50 |
| cluckj | the NIH provides funding for projects in the interest of public health, DARPA for military interests, etc. | 14:51 |
| cluckj | removing government funding from science would reduce or eliminate those interests | 14:52 |
| kanzure | haha, because public health biology suddenly becomes irrelevant? | 14:52 |
| -!- augur [~augur@216-164-48-148.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 14:53 | |
| cluckj | it suddenly becomes an issue of "what about public health can make a profit" rather than "what about public health can make the public healthy" | 14:53 |
| kanzure | yeah that usda food pyramiad is totally working out for you | 14:54 |
| -!- augur [~augur@216-164-48-148.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 14:54 | |
| kanzure | hah i didn't mean to say that so strongly | 14:55 |
| cluckj | it's a plate now :) | 14:55 |
| kanzure | but it works because of your insulin problems | 14:55 |
| cluckj | haha | 14:55 |
| kanzure | it's a plate? | 14:55 |
| kanzure | *pyramid | 14:55 |
| cluckj | the food pyramid is a hilarious example of interests clashing | 14:56 |
| cluckj | coming up with dietary recommendations is super contentious between public health and private industry concerns | 14:56 |
| kanzure | a very particular part of private industry concerns | 14:57 |
| kanzure | it's the same fallacy about "monsanto is evil, therefore all genetic engineering is evil" | 14:58 |
| cluckj | no | 14:58 |
| kanzure | "these private interests suck, so therefore all possible private interests also suck" | 14:59 |
| -!- augur [~augur@216-164-48-148.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] | 14:59 | |
| cluckj | it's closer to "saturated fats are bad for you............but the meat and dairy lobby wants you to eat more meat and dairy" | 14:59 |
| cluckj | "because monsanto sucks, I don't trust them to tell me what is safe" | 15:01 |
| cluckj | I don't want to destroy private industry (today, anyway), I want to make sure that there are other interests represented besides the capitalist oligarchy | 15:02 |
| * cluckj is sent to gitmo | 15:02 | |
| -!- EnLilaSko [EnLilaSko@unaffiliated/enlilasko] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 15:06 | |
| heath | this doesn't look right: https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-y-MGS18jwvE/U6tFmIaSx6I/AAAAAAAAEzQ/4sGOukXThQY/w734-h979-no/IMG_20140625_165621.jpg | 15:09 |
| heath | anyone have experience with ferrules and stops? | 15:10 |
| heath | guess i'll ask at the local hackerspace | 15:10 |
| chris_99 | ferrules on pipes? | 15:12 |
| -!- ielo [~ielo@host-89-243-47-30.as13285.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] | 15:13 | |
| -!- ielo_ [~ielo@host-89-243-47-30.as13285.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] | 15:13 | |
| heath | chris_99: on steel cable | 15:15 |
| chris_99 | oh | 15:16 |
| dingo | kanzure: do you consider the @trace decorator a crock of shit? have you ever found it useful? | 15:23 |
| kanzure | i used the trace log output exactly once | 15:29 |
| ParahSailin | kanzure: python needs a decent nurbs library? | 15:29 |
| kanzure | the *implementation* of @trace was highly suspicious (third party) | 15:29 |
| kanzure | ParahSailin: hell yes | 15:29 |
| kanzure | ParahSailin: in particular, nurbs intersection stuff | 15:29 |
| -!- nmz787_i [~nmccorkx@192.55.55.41] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] | 15:30 | |
| ParahSailin | right | 15:30 |
| kanzure | just a class with knots/control points is not useful- there's a bunch of those wandering around the web already | 15:30 |
| kanzure | dingo: tbh i never used @trace because i already knew where things were coming from. for someone investigating in the opposite direction ("what the fuck is this component doing?") it's probably helpful. | 15:31 |
| -!- nmz787_i [~nmccorkx@134.134.139.70] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 15:31 | |
| kanzure | i mean, i used @trace, but i didn't look at the logs | 15:31 |
| dingo | m. I just had an issue where the actual error was: TypeError: execute() takes exactly 4 arguments (3 given) | 15:32 |
| dingo | but @trace, internally, did: KeyError: 'model' | 15:32 |
| dingo | so the original error was lost! | 15:32 |
| dingo | very counter-productive | 15:32 |
| kanzure | i remember getting a few KeyError: 'model' | 15:32 |
| kanzure | especially when i wrote collectors. but other times too. | 15:33 |
| dingo | thats right where its at, yup | 15:33 |
| kanzure | high five | 15:33 |
| dingo | sorry to remind you, hehe | 15:34 |
| dingo | i just don't think it'll ever be useful | 15:34 |
| kanzure | that base class should be rewritten | 15:34 |
| dingo | i think its counter-productive, a developer says, i don't need to debug log any logic decisions or data manipulations | 15:34 |
| dingo | i could always use the tracelog | 15:34 |
| ParahSailin | kanzure: what came out of the summer of code on the brlcad nurbs? | 15:35 |
| ParahSailin | or am i remembering something slightly wrong | 15:35 |
| kanzure | ParahSailin: http://brlcad.org/wiki/User:Phoenix/GSoc2012/Reports | 15:36 |
| kanzure | ParahSailin: http://brlcad.org/wiki/User:Phoenix/GSoc2013/Reports | 15:36 |
| kanzure | this summer they are working on my https://github.com/kanzure/python-brlcad | 15:36 |
| kanzure | but their nurbs stuff is c++ and ctypes doesn't cover it.... argh. | 15:36 |
| ParahSailin | so their nurbs stuff works | 15:37 |
| kanzure | i would have to do opennurbs + swig or something (half their nurbs stuff is opennurbs. the rest is User:Phoenix's work) | 15:37 |
| kanzure | rhino stripped intersections/booleans from opennurbs because "omg sekr1t proprietary knowledges gais" | 15:38 |
| dingo | oh that "check if it can make c compilers" thing i mentioned over the weekend, this is what i came up with, kanzure, https://github.com/jquast/x84/blob/master/setup.py#L86 | 15:38 |
| ParahSailin | im looking at the brl-cad repo, is there some leet nurbs math that is not part of opennurbs? | 15:38 |
| dingo | as you recommended, i use pkg-config :-) | 15:39 |
| kanzure | ParahSailin: yes | 15:39 |
| kanzure | dingo: i'm 100% sure you knew about pkg-config before that | 15:39 |
| dingo | no i just was hoping the distutils* world had some solution | 15:39 |
| kanzure | hah | 15:39 |
| dingo | the best i found was "Here is the name of the compiler for unix: cc" | 15:39 |
| dingo | also "where is Python.h" | 15:39 |
| kanzure | get_maybe_requires looks good to me | 15:40 |
| kanzure | i thought distutils was merged back into setuptools upstream | 15:41 |
| kanzure | actually, i don't want to open that can of worms | 15:41 |
| kanzure | ParahSailin: i'm sure there's a few degenerate cases that brlcad doesn't work for | 15:42 |
| kanzure | ParahSailin: today i have been playing with cadquery inside freecad. works pretty well. their pythonocc branch isn't implemented. if brlcad had c functions for its nurbs and breps, i would use python-brlcad as the engine behind cadquery. | 15:43 |
| kanzure | in terms of usability, cadquery + freecad is probably fine for anyone that cares about getting something that works (and i'm only obsessed because i know i don't want to maintain opencascade) | 15:43 |
| kanzure | damn, harbor freight is open until 9pm? what a deal | 15:45 |
| heath | any rubyists looking for work? | 16:01 |
| heath | pm or email me if you are (heathmatlock@gmail.com) | 16:04 |
| -!- augur [~augur@c-69-250-22-85.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 16:09 | |
| kanzure | heath: depends on how much you're willing to pay :) | 16:10 |
| ParahSailin | how is brl-cad under gpl, i thought government stuff had to be public domain | 16:20 |
| ParahSailin | sorry, lgpl | 16:21 |
| kanzure | btw there's also #brlcad (someone seems to be around at the moment) | 16:21 |
| -!- ElixirVitae [~Shehrazad@unaffiliated/shehrazad] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] | 16:28 | |
| -!- joepie91__ [5064fe45@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.100.254.69] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 16:36 | |
| -!- joepie91_ [5064fe45@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.100.254.69] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] | 16:38 | |
| kanzure | i didn't mean "stop talking" | 16:41 |
| kanzure | just that they know that answer | 16:41 |
| kanzure | also, raj12lnm is the gsoc student working on python-brlcad | 16:41 |
| -!- yorick [~yorick@oftn/member/yorick] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 16:54 | |
| nmz787_i | dingo: ParahSailin kanzure you might be interested in the faulthandler package on pypi... was getting another segfault this morning with no error trace being printed... pip install and 2 lines of code later I had the segfault info needed to correct the problem | 16:56 |
| nmz787_i | I haven't tried it for the segfault I was getting last week yet though | 16:56 |
| dingo | segfaults! | 16:56 |
| nmz787_i | ParahSailin: tried using cygwin and strace, but unfortunately their python was compiled with too old a version of MSVC for the pywin32 module to work with | 16:57 |
| nmz787_i | dingo: yeah subprocess.communicate (or .wait) was segfaulting on me, when it tried to join the stdout listener thread it created | 16:57 |
| nmz787_i | friggin weird and I didn't get anywhere with the error tracing, but I'd like to give it a shot with faulthandler imported and see if I get any new info | 16:58 |
| kanzure | couldn't you just use db or something to do stacktrace investigation stuff | 16:58 |
| kanzure | *gdb | 16:58 |
| dingo | so long as the stack doesn't get smashed :) | 16:58 |
| -!- augur [~augur@c-69-250-22-85.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 17:02 | |
| kanzure | i fought the stack and the stack won | 17:11 |
| -!- catern [~catern@catern.com] has quit [Quit: Quitting...] | 17:15 | |
| -!- catern_ [~catern@catern.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 17:16 | |
| -!- HEx1 [~HEx@hexwab.plus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] | 17:18 | |
| -!- catern_ is now known as catern | 17:19 | |
| -!- catern is now known as catern_ | 17:22 | |
| -!- catern_ is now known as catern | 17:23 | |
| kanzure | ParahSailin: maybe i should just convert brlcad's intersection stuff into python | 17:28 |
| kanzure | although every time i start thinking about that, i wonder why not just do that for opencascade, since theirs is more thorough | 17:28 |
| kanzure | and more battle tested | 17:28 |
| ParahSailin | opencascade has intersection? | 17:30 |
| kanzure | opencascade has everything http://diyhpl.us/wiki/cad/opencascade | 17:30 |
| kanzure | 400 man-years etc etc | 17:30 |
| kanzure | start here http://diyhpl.us/wiki/cad/opencascade/#packages | 17:30 |
| ParahSailin | holy shit | 17:31 |
| kanzure | yeah i've been trying to sort through this mess | 17:31 |
| gnusha_ | https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=39817882 Bryan Bishop: another abbreviation (GL -> graphics library) >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/cad/opencascade/ | 17:34 |
| gnusha_ | https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=c2b3d8de Bryan Bishop: these people really like abbreviating >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/cad/opencascade/ | 17:36 |
| -!- yashgaroth [~ffffff@cpe-76-167-105-53.san.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 17:36 | |
| kanzure | freecad exposes a small chunk of it into a solidworks-like gui | 17:38 |
| -!- superkuh [~superkuh@unaffiliated/superkuh] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] | 17:39 | |
| -!- superkuh [~superkuh@unaffiliated/superkuh] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 17:47 | |
| ParahSailin | maybe the best way to do it is just figure out c++ name mangling enough to link python bindings to that | 17:47 |
| kanzure | pythonocc is a set of python bindings to opencascade using swig | 17:48 |
| kanzure | works fine | 17:48 |
| kanzure | the problem is that i don't want to maintain opencascade.. it's a disaster. | 17:48 |
| ParahSailin | heh, thorough and battle test; disaster -- make up your mind | 17:52 |
| kanzure | i reserve the right to be a walking set of contradictions | 17:53 |
| kanzure | dissonance is a lovely drug | 17:53 |
| kanzure | go take a look at the source code... it is not good. | 17:54 |
| ParahSailin | no i looked | 17:56 |
| ParahSailin | that was the "holy shit" | 17:57 |
| -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-60-231-178-117.lns4.dav.bigpond.net.au] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 18:06 | |
| -!- nmz787_i [~nmccorkx@134.134.139.70] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] | 18:13 | |
| -!- TeMPOraL [~user@89-68-70-120.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] | 18:39 | |
| kanzure | ParahSailin: why the sudden interest? | 18:49 |
| -!- genehacker [~chatzilla@c-24-20-19-199.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 19:04 | |
| -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-60-231-178-117.lns4.dav.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 19:09 | |
| ParahSailin | paperbot: http://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-94-007-7250-2_2 | 19:16 |
| paperbot | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/c313fca66e0539b740a301b5070ac1.txt | 19:16 |
| ParahSailin | i gotta pad my github some | 19:16 |
| kanzure | have you considered faking your commits? | 19:23 |
| catern | just fork a bunch of projects | 19:23 |
| catern | that always works to trick the recruiters | 19:24 |
| kanzure | that wont update your contribution calendar | 19:24 |
| kanzure | and you want to avoid recruiters | 19:24 |
| -!- [nsh] [~unf@wikipedia/nsh] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 19:26 | |
| -!- [nsh] [~unf@wikipedia/nsh] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 19:27 | |
| -!- augur [~augur@c-69-250-22-85.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 19:27 | |
| -!- augur_ [~augur@c-69-250-22-85.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 19:31 | |
| -!- augur [~augur@c-69-250-22-85.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] | 19:31 | |
| -!- HEx1 [~HEx@hexwab.plus.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 19:34 | |
| -!- Jaakko911 [~Jaakko@77.98.240.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] | 19:48 | |
| -!- [nsh] [~unf@wikipedia/nsh] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] | 19:49 | |
| -!- [nsh] [~unf@wikipedia/nsh] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 19:51 | |
| -!- augur_ [~augur@c-69-250-22-85.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 19:56 | |
| ParahSailin | kanzure: so what's wrong with pythonocc? | 20:05 |
| ParahSailin | you're either going to be maintaining bindings for opencascade or something of similar mass | 20:06 |
| kanzure | bugfixing opencascade is very hard :( | 20:08 |
| kanzure | "oops, this sphere can't intersect a vertex at this point. good luck fixing the engine." | 20:08 |
| -!- augur [~augur@c-69-250-22-85.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 20:09 | |
| kanzure | meanwhile you're looking at code like Handle(aMPBLPB) = aMPBLI.start() - PrsTMgrAlgo.ope(); | 20:09 |
| ParahSailin | wow, thats like BLAS levels of obscure identifiers | 20:10 |
| kanzure | meanwhile, the brlcad code is sligtly less mysterious... | 20:10 |
| -!- augur [~augur@c-69-250-22-85.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 20:11 | |
| kanzure | https://github.com/tpaviot/oce/blob/master/src/BOPAlgo/BOPAlgo_PaveFiller_5.cxx#L513 | 20:11 |
| kanzure | i love all the blank comments | 20:11 |
| dingo | oh yeah that helps so much ... | 20:12 |
| dingo | what the hell is that good for | 20:12 |
| dingo | line 207 reads // 3 | 20:12 |
| kanzure | hahaha | 20:12 |
| ParahSailin | / this line intentionally left blank | 20:12 |
| kanzure | so, maybe when they made this code open source | 20:12 |
| kanzure | they stripped out all the comments | 20:13 |
| kanzure | because they were afraid of the hack0rz | 20:13 |
| dingo | line 144 reads // ----------f | 20:13 |
| kanzure | aEF.SetIndices(nE, nF); | 20:13 |
| dingo | hehehe | 20:13 |
| kanzure | bV[j]=CheckFacePaves(nV[j], aMIFOn, aMIFIn); | 20:14 |
| dingo | whats the matter, can't you read code | 20:14 |
| dingo | its obvious | 20:14 |
| kanzure | i should add E and F to the abbreviation list (edge and face, i think) | 20:14 |
| kanzure | they overload I for integer, interference, intersection, intolerant | 20:14 |
| dingo | incapable | 20:15 |
| dingo | incomprehensible | 20:15 |
| kanzure | oh, i already had F documented | 20:15 |
| kanzure | in http://diyhpl.us/wiki/cad/opencascade/ | 20:15 |
| kanzure | and E... go me. | 20:15 |
| ParahSailin | kanzure: what exactly are all these different directories https://github.com/tpaviot/oce/tree/master/src | 20:16 |
| kanzure | those are the different packages that i've documented here, http://diyhpl.us/wiki/cad/opencascade/#packages | 20:16 |
| kanzure | the system is made up of "modules" or "libraries" or "packages" | 20:17 |
| ParahSailin | are all the packages important? | 20:17 |
| kanzure | not sure. i think most of them are used in the default build. | 20:17 |
| kanzure | some of them are probably ancient and unused. | 20:17 |
| ParahSailin | the use case is to improve something like cadquery? | 20:18 |
| kanzure | so, cadquery is actually using opencascade (through freecad) | 20:18 |
| kanzure | (because freecad is just a gui on top of opencascade) | 20:18 |
| -!- petraya [~asakharov@24.60.79.55] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 20:18 | |
| kanzure | so yes | 20:19 |
| ParahSailin | so theoretically all the nurbs intersection stuff is accessible in cadquery as it is now? | 20:19 |
| kanzure | yes definitely | 20:19 |
| kanzure | part = Workplane("front").circle(1).rect(1,1).cut(tool) | 20:20 |
| kanzure | works fine | 20:20 |
| kanzure | 1) sudo apt-get install freecad 2) pip-2.7 install cadquery 3) in freecad type "import cadquery" then "part = Workplane('front').rect(1,1); Part.show(part.val().wrapped)" | 20:21 |
| kanzure | oh you might have to click 'part designer' somewhere before step 3 inside freecad | 20:22 |
| ParahSailin | youd like to improve that in some way? | 20:23 |
| kanzure | skip freecad | 20:24 |
| gradstudentbot | Just wait until the ethics review board never hears about this. | 20:25 |
| kanzure | skip opencascade | 20:25 |
| ParahSailin | so it would be preferable to have a smaller set of features so that the install is easier? | 20:26 |
| ParahSailin | http://www.iflscience.com/technology/automatic-sperm-extractor-introduced-chinese-hospital | 20:26 |
| kanzure | it's not because of the install | 20:27 |
| kanzure | it's because when opencascade breaks, how am i going to fix that | 20:27 |
| kanzure | and how am i going to improve that? :( | 20:28 |
| ParahSailin | that seems odd that occ is not included in the pythonocc dist | 20:28 |
| kanzure | pythonocc is just swig stuff | 20:28 |
| -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-60-231-178-117.lns4.dav.bigpond.net.au] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 20:29 | |
| kanzure | there was a bug in the opencascade tracker the other day.. something about ellipsoids not boolean cutting correctly haha. | 20:29 |
| ParahSailin | hm, i was thinking swig stuff had to be built alongside the c++ stuff, but i guess gcc will link that stuff when you build it separately | 20:29 |
| -!- AshleyWaffle [~waffle@gateway/tor-sasl/anastasiawyatt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 20:29 | |
| kanzure | you have to tell it where the source code is | 20:29 |
| -!- AshleyWaffle [~waffle@gateway/tor-sasl/anastasiawyatt] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 20:30 | |
| ParahSailin | so you install freecad with package manager, which includes shared libs for occ; then you compile swig bindings to occ with hopefully the same version of the source? | 20:31 |
| kanzure | freecad doesn't use pythonocc, and pythonocc doesn't use freecad | 20:31 |
| kanzure | pythonocc just uses opencascade source code directly | 20:31 |
| kanzure | opencascade "community edition" source code https://github.com/tpaviot/oce | 20:32 |
| kanzure | pythonocc https://github.com/tpaviot/pythonocc | 20:32 |
| ParahSailin | you install oce through apt-get though? | 20:32 |
| kanzure | nope | 20:32 |
| ParahSailin | does freecad depend on oce? | 20:33 |
| kanzure | dunno, good question. it probably uses opencascade upstream (not the community edition). haven't checked. | 20:33 |
| kanzure | actually, it looks like debian has some liboce packages. not sure what these are. | 20:33 |
| kanzure | liboce-modeling8 - OpenCASCADE Community Edition CAE platform shared library | 20:33 |
| kanzure | liboce-modeling-dev - OpenCASCADE Community Edition CAE platform library development files | 20:33 |
| kanzure | liboce-foundation8 - OpenCASCADE Community Edition CAE platform shared library | 20:33 |
| kanzure | liboce-foundation-dev - OpenCASCADE Community Edition CAE platform library development files | 20:34 |
| ParahSailin | does swig perhaps just deal with the header files that are installed along wiht liboce-modeling-dev or whatever? | 20:34 |
| ParahSailin | or does pythonocc package the entire source tree of oce and do code transformations to make c bindings | 20:35 |
| kanzure | pythonocc asks you to install oce source code separately | 20:35 |
| kanzure | https://github.com/tpaviot/pythonocc/blob/master/INSTALL | 20:35 |
| ParahSailin | so, you are actually loading oce libraries twice in that workflow: once when you run freecad, then again in the python interpreter when you import cadquery | 20:37 |
| kanzure | i think the answer is no | 20:38 |
| kanzure | freecad has an integrated python interpreter | 20:38 |
| kanzure | cadquery runs an "import freecad" | 20:38 |
| kanzure | and that's probably just replaced with a global ref when you're in the freecad gui | 20:38 |
| ParahSailin | ah ok | 20:38 |
| ParahSailin | but does cadquery import pythonocc at any point? | 20:39 |
| kanzure | no | 20:39 |
| kanzure | there's a branch where it's a plugin but it's not implemented (it's just a copy of their freecad version, with s/freecad/pythonoc/) | 20:40 |
| kanzure | *pythonocc | 20:40 |
| kanzure | (which doesn't work because they are not api interchangeable) | 20:40 |
| ParahSailin | im not sure why you would want pythonocc in the freecad interpreter then | 20:42 |
| kanzure | you don't | 20:42 |
| ParahSailin | oh, a branch where theres no freecad, just pythonocc | 20:43 |
| kanzure | i think he wanted cadquery to have multiple possible backends | 20:43 |
| kanzure | for example, python-brlcad would be another one, if it had compatible api concepts | 20:43 |
| ParahSailin | ok, so hes talking about pythonocc because he doesnt expose much of oce in freecad | 20:47 |
| -!- Darius [~quassel@108-203-14-66.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 20:47 | |
| kanzure | who=he? there's multiple different people here | 20:48 |
| ParahSailin | http://www.freecadweb.org/wiki/index.php?title=PythonOCC | 20:50 |
| -!- Jaakko911 [~Jaakko@cpc13-newc15-2-0-cust64.16-2.cable.virginm.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 20:51 | |
| kanzure | yeah, i would guess that freecad doesn't do swig-style binding | 20:51 |
| kanzure | they probably just call opencascade functions directly since it's C++ or something | 20:52 |
| ParahSailin | yeah im looking for their bindings | 20:52 |
| kanzure | i would guess none | 20:53 |
| kanzure | #include <opencascade/somethin/something/crap.cxx> | 20:53 |
| -!- Jaakko912 [~Jaakko@cpc13-newc15-2-0-cust64.16-2.cable.virginm.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 20:57 | |
| kanzure | https://github.com/FreeCAD/FreeCAD_sf_master/blob/e8cb83a48b18769c086b80cd92a5b2b859337081/src/Mod/Part/App/FeaturePartBoolean.cpp | 20:57 |
| kanzure | #include <BRepAlgoAPI_BooleanOperation.hxx> | 20:57 |
| kanzure | yep.. | 20:57 |
| -!- Jaakko911 [~Jaakko@cpc13-newc15-2-0-cust64.16-2.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] | 20:58 | |
| ParahSailin | https://github.com/FreeCAD/FreeCAD_sf_master/blob/4b49178920e25e9b5692df97aa0201f415baf977/src/App/ApplicationPy.cpp | 21:00 |
| kanzure | what about it | 21:01 |
| ParahSailin | thats the extent of the python bindings it seems like | 21:03 |
| kanzure | not sure where "Part" comes from | 21:04 |
| ParahSailin | hm nevermind, it looks like anything *Py.cpp has python bindings | 21:05 |
| kanzure | https://github.com/FreeCAD/FreeCAD_sf_master/blob/b1451181eac1c388fa89d4b8956f8dc35960e387/src/CXX/Python2/IndirectPythonInterface.cxx | 21:05 |
| gradstudentbot | That's not really surprising since they did it ex vivo. | 21:06 |
| ParahSailin | odd build system: https://github.com/FreeCAD/FreeCAD_sf_master/blob/9d1a6d25ada1a3242a2dc953dbcadaa4b398d377/src/Mod/Points/App/PointsPyImp.cpp | 21:06 |
| ParahSailin | // inclusion of the generated files (generated out of PointsPy.xml); #include "PointsPy.cpp" | 21:06 |
| ParahSailin | somehow that xml file is processed into a .h and a .cpp | 21:07 |
| kanzure | yeah i'm sure he doesn't want to manually write all of the stuff | 21:07 |
| kanzure | https://github.com/FreeCAD/FreeCAD_sf_master/blob/b1451181eac1c388fa89d4b8956f8dc35960e387/src/Mod/Part/App/Part2DObjectPy.xml | 21:08 |
| kanzure | whatever. | 21:08 |
| kanzure | not worth looking too deep | 21:08 |
| kanzure | ultimately it's just opencascade under the hood | 21:08 |
| ParahSailin | https://github.com/FreeCAD/FreeCAD_sf_master/blob/b1451181eac1c388fa89d4b8956f8dc35960e387/src/Tools/generate.py | 21:11 |
| ParahSailin | quite creative | 21:11 |
| kanzure | inconsistent spacing | 21:11 |
| kanzure | my diagnosis is indignant schizophrenia | 21:12 |
| kanzure | have him committed | 21:12 |
| ParahSailin | well here is where the FreeCAD module is made visible to the py interpreter | 21:15 |
| ParahSailin | https://github.com/FreeCAD/FreeCAD_sf_master/blob/0bcd95416aaac6202fe0c07fbd9c77768d29feea/src/App/Application.cpp#L183 | 21:15 |
| -!- yashgaroth [~ffffff@cpe-76-167-105-53.san.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] | 21:38 | |
| -!- dingo [dingo@1984.ws] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] | 21:38 | |
| -!- sapiosexual [~sapiosexu@d75-156-91-180.bchsia.telus.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 21:39 | |
| kanzure | /win 5 | 21:46 |
| kanzure | dkjfldajflkada failure | 21:46 |
| -!- dingo [dingo@1984.ws] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 22:04 | |
| genehacker | dammit someone just needs to fix opencascade | 22:05 |
| genehacker | or write an opensource cad kernel that doesn't suck | 22:05 |
| genehacker | or make Stallman president of spatial or parasolid | 22:06 |
| -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-60-231-178-117.lns4.dav.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] | 22:07 | |
| -!- ebowden_ [~ebowden@CPE-60-231-178-117.lns4.dav.bigpond.net.au] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 22:07 | |
| nmz787 | ParahSailin: http://diyhpl.us/~nmz787/pdf/Sustainable_Phosphorus_Management.pdf | 22:14 |
| ParahSailin | libgen had this actually | 22:15 |
| ParahSailin | thanks anyway | 22:15 |
| nmz787 | ah | 22:15 |
| nmz787 | the whole book? | 22:15 |
| ParahSailin | http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1007%2F978-94-007-7250-2 | 22:17 |
| ParahSailin | there is an insane russian hard at work somewhere | 22:18 |
| nmz787 | i don't really want to download it from that likely slow connection to find out | 22:18 |
| ParahSailin | well its 322 pg pdf | 22:18 |
| ParahSailin | so yeah its the whole thing | 22:18 |
| nmz787 | cool | 22:19 |
| genehacker | thank goodness for insane russians | 22:19 |
| gradstudentbot | My study reveals that people are awesome at memorizing insecure passwords. | 22:21 |
| -!- augur [~augur@pool-71-178-129-150.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 22:26 | |
| -!- Darius [~quassel@108-203-14-66.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 22:32 | |
| -!- Viper168_ [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 22:36 | |
| -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] | 22:37 | |
| -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 22:40 | |
| -!- maaku [~quassel@50-0-36-179.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] | 22:54 | |
| -!- maaku [~quassel@50-0-36-179.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 22:55 | |
| -!- maaku is now known as Guest39326 | 22:55 | |
| -!- augur_ [~augur@216-164-48-148.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 22:55 | |
| -!- augur [~augur@pool-71-178-129-150.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] | 22:59 | |
| -!- ||0_-_0|| [uid34064@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-cgcnoxwsbbegrglk] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 23:25 | |
| ||0_-_0|| | paperbot http://www.nature.com/ni/journal/v14/n10/abs/ni.2703.html | 23:26 |
| paperbot | http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1038%2Fni.2703 | 23:26 |
| ||0_-_0|| | and paperbot http://www.nature.com/ni/journal/vaop/ncurrent/abs/ni.2913.html | 23:26 |
| ||0_-_0|| | paperbot http://www.nature.com/ni/journal/vaop/ncurrent/abs/ni.2913.html | 23:30 |
| paperbot | http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1038%2Fni.2913 | 23:30 |
| -!- Burnin8 [~Burn@pool-173-66-15-196.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] | 23:31 | |
| -!- ElixirVitae [~Shehrazad@78.174.33.58] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 23:35 | |
| -!- ElixirVitae [~Shehrazad@78.174.33.58] has quit [Changing host] | 23:35 | |
| -!- ElixirVitae [~Shehrazad@unaffiliated/shehrazad] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 23:35 | |
| -!- Burninate [~Burn@pool-173-66-15-196.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 23:47 | |
| -!- ielo_ [~ielo@host-89-243-47-30.as13285.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 23:47 | |
| -!- ielo [~ielo@host-89-243-47-30.as13285.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 23:48 | |
| -!- ebowden_ [~ebowden@CPE-60-231-178-117.lns4.dav.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 23:49 | |
| -!- Jaakko913 [~Jaakko@cpc13-newc15-2-0-cust64.16-2.cable.virginm.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 23:59 | |
| --- Log closed Thu Jun 26 00:00:40 2014 | ||
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.15.0.dev0 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!
