2014-07-17.log

--- Log opened Thu Jul 17 00:00:06 2014
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JayDuggerGood morning.06:38
kanzure_hi06:47
cluckjhi06:49
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ybithttps://imgur.com/8LynGXL13:11
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dpk.privacy14:20
yoleauxdpk: This channel is public. When I am asked when I last saw you, I may repeat things you say and what time it was when you said them.14:20
kanzure_what about it?14:21
kanzure_.title14:21
yoleauximgur: the simple image sharer14:21
kanzure_oh yeah14:21
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AshleyWafflehttp://www.defenseone.com/technology/2014/07/breakthrough-checkered-history-military-brain-hacking/87709/14:43
AshleyWafflesomeone should re-produce that tech and publish it so that darpa doesnt get farther than the rest of us14:44
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kaafirdarpa's p good15:01
jrayhawkhaha "farther than the rest of us"15:06
jrayhawkHANS REISER WAS A FALSE FLAG ATTACK15:06
kaafirmurderFS15:06
jrayhawkwe'll have to recreate the internet to catch back up with DARPA15:07
jrayhawkusing IPX15:07
kaafirdarpas been working on a replacement for tcip for prolly a decade now15:07
kaafirin their own words its 'flawed'15:08
jrayhawkSee? My god we're losing the arms race against DARPA!15:08
kaafirnothing wrong with darpa15:08
kaafirbesides civilians dont have the ability to implement the infrastructure to create an indy network infrastructure15:09
kaafirmmm i said the same world twice15:09
kaafirneed more crack15:09
kaafirbbiab15:09
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kanzure_ParahSailin_: how do i make my reply more manipulative? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=805055816:13
kanzure_jrayhawk: also seeking your advice16:13
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jrayhawkhaha oh yeah, this was the guy who was all "ketosis fixed most of my son's problems. also, we are no longer doing ketosis because it's inconvenient."16:17
jrayhawknot sure i would want to work with someone that brittle16:18
cluckjketosis is a royal pain in the ass16:24
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kanzure_well, it's more like, if i'm not able to convince him, i wouldn't be able to convince some grieving parent16:30
kanzure_"Your kid is gonna die unless you do this"16:30
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cluckjo_O16:49
cluckjwhy would someone die if they weren't in ketosis16:49
kanzure_http://matt.might.net/articles/my-sons-killer/16:51
kanzure_"You can order a batch for $244..... Unfortunately, we can't just order a batch and inject Bertrand. We need to get FDA approval, and we'll need Genzyme's cooperation."16:52
kanzure_what a coward16:52
kanzure_his response: "Of course we've considered it. It's a murky moral calculus."17:00
kanzure_yes.. if by murky you mean wading through the blood of dead children. sure.17:00
cluckjuh17:03
cluckjwhat17:03
kanzure_not manipulative enough?17:03
kanzure_you're right, i can do better17:03
cluckjno I mean you can do better17:03
cluckj^17:03
kanzure_"I'll have to weigh the blood of a thousand dead children against my cold hard, murky moral calculus"17:04
cluckjwhy is the approval of the FDA more important than a kid's life?17:04
kanzure_so, it's certainly important to say that the drug might not actually work for him, or it might even kill him17:05
kanzure_but yes, your question is still valid in both of those situations anyway17:05
cluckjoh definitely17:05
cluckjit's not as if injecting the kid with the enzyme is going to fix everything forever17:06
kanzure_"If it makes you feel better, the kid's still going to be fucked in the head for quite a while. At least a decade."17:06
cluckjmaybe "get your scientist friends to start a trial at a hospital"17:07
cluckjDIY style is probably a bad plan17:07
kanzure_a good experimental design is still good whether "diy" or not17:08
cluckjand about the ketosis, it seems like it only worked for a little while then stopped17:08
kanzure_i think there's another article that jrayhawk is thinking about17:08
cluckj(and they were doing it wrong)17:08
cluckjoh17:08
cluckj1g carbs/4g fat is way too many carbs17:09
cluckjfor an adult human ketosis will happen with <50g carbs per day17:09
cluckjbetter to aim for zero carbs....17:09
jrayhawkYeah, when you have a glycation disorder, zero carbing does seem like a much better plan.17:10
cluckjthe body will kick out of ketosis at the slightest availability of extra carbs17:11
jrayhawknot slightest, but yeah17:12
cluckjmy experience with it is different because of the diabetes17:14
jrayhawkType 1?17:14
cluckjyeah17:15
jrayhawkOkay, yeah, I can see that being a bit more of a royal pain in the ass.17:15
cluckjtoo many carbs and it's super-quick DKA :)17:18
jrayhawkOr too little insulin for that matter.17:18
nmz787paperbot: http://dx.doi.org/10.3233/JAD-2012-12088617:18
cluckjyes17:18
paperbothttp://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/840c4d55ef147dfa4d6698ef21006690.txt17:18
jrayhawkAt worst I get a nasty headache from dropping out of it too fast.17:19
cluckjouch17:19
jrayhawkSeems dandy to me!17:19
jrayhawkAt least, relatively speaking.17:19
cluckjhah17:19
kanzure_jrayhawk's hobbies include simulating type 1 diabetes17:19
kanzure_and pretending to count calories17:20
jrayhawkthat would be more a simulation of type 2 diabetes17:20
cluckj^17:20
kanzure_i wanted to give you an obviously wrong hobby17:20
jrayhawkperipheral insulin resistance and acute massive neural oxidative stress17:20
jrayhawkHaha, okay17:20
cluckjinsulin resistance is surprisingly easy to do!17:20
cluckjI'm still recovering my sensitivity a month after my stupid experiment17:22
jrayhawkwhat was the stupid experiment?17:22
cluckjI lost a lot of weight before I was diagnosed (two days ago, last year) and was trying to gain it back by eating a fuckload of fats17:23
cluckjmostly in ice cream form.17:23
cluckjthe saturated fats wrecked my sensitivity to insulin by about 25%17:23
jrayhawkAre you sure that wasn't the fructose?17:24
cluckjyes17:25
kanzure_couldn't you just guzzle fat instead17:25
cluckjI did :P17:25
cluckjice cream!17:25
jrayhawkDense soluable-fiber-free sources of glucose/fructose rewire a bunch of energy homeostasis stuff to maximize intake and shuffle it mostly into adipose tissue.17:26
cluckjI did not get fat :(17:26
cluckjnow I'm eating nuts, seems to be working17:27
jrayhawkExcellent.17:28
cluckjunsaturated fats are great17:28
cluckjmy cholesterol level is like 250 though :o17:29
cluckjHDL is 17517:29
jrayhawkOh, that's fine.17:29
jrayhawkMuch north of 250 gets to be a bit concerning, but 250 is dandy in terms of mortality numbers.17:30
jrayhawkAt least, mortality numbers adjusted for dyslipidemia, which you clearly don't have.17:30
cluckjwell, 250 is good with the HDL extremely high17:31
jrayhawkYeah.17:31
jrayhawkIf you wind up having problems with saturated fat again, palmitate/oleate ratios might be a thing to research and play around with.17:32
cluckjactually those numbers are wrong17:33
jrayhawkhttp://www.jbc.org/content/283/17/11107.full notably this17:34
paperbothttp://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1074%2Fjbc.M70870020017:34
cluckjcholesterol was only 23117:34
kanzure_paperbot is a tease17:35
jrayhawkmore details http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2087676117:35
cluckjoh that's cool17:36
jrayhawkin the high-fat dieting communities, it's concluded that some people just do better on MUFAs than SFAs, and that it's probably genetically determined.17:37
cluckjI just bought a 3lb bag of pecans17:37
jrayhawkI support your decision to get fat.17:37
cluckjhaha, that study is basically my diet change in the last month17:38
jrayhawkAt least with T2D, overweight BMIs have lower mortality than normal BMIs.17:38
cluckjI went from dairy fat (saturated) to nut fat (unsaturated)17:38
cluckjI'm 6' 140lbs right now17:38
jrayhawkso tiny :(17:38
cluckjyes, I was 165 before my pancreas ate shit17:38
jrayhawkI weigh more than you and I'm 5'6"17:39
cluckjI don't necessarily want to get obese, but have some more places to put my insulin pump and glucose sensor :|17:39
jrayhawkYeah, obese BMI did not fare well.17:40
jrayhawkI hope to get obese by the time I hit male menopause, but I am in no hurry.17:40
cluckjlol17:40
cluckjI'm still at the point where some subcutaneous fat would be nice17:40
Viper168_most fats tend to be bad though17:42
Viper168_for your heart17:42
jrayhawkthat's a good troll17:42
Viper168_hardening arteries and such17:42
jrayhawkthanks for the effort17:42
cluckjya17:42
Viper168_I'd suggest sticking with coconut oil17:42
cluckjlmao17:42
Viper168_and similar fats17:42
cluckjnice17:43
Viper168_hey if you want to follow your fad gurus and think all fats are ok, enjoy dying early17:44
nmz787kanzure_: those old mailing list entries seem legit to keep around, were the original poster's the ones complaining?17:44
jrayhawkViper168_: even the AHA, which is basically a marketing arm of Proctor & Gamble, has given up on the lipid hypothesis17:44
kanzure_nmz787: some dude was complaining, who had posted a little bit too much about himself17:44
jrayhawklike that shit got disproven by a half dozen RCTs back in the 70's and 80's. nobody believes it anymore. not even the old guard of lipidemiology.17:45
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jrayhawk(Well, Ehren's never believed it in the first place)17:45
jrayhawkYou have to have literally never read a paper on lipidemiology in the past decade to think what you've just said is true.17:46
Viper168_it's funny how we measur ethe choloesterol levels though and it's proven to be bad17:46
nmz787paperbot should query us for a new filename17:46
nmz787and have a timeout of like 20 seconds if one isn't provided17:47
kanzure_i'm not ready to trust others with filenaming :(17:47
Viper168_if everyone is abandoning the idea17:47
nmz787or spawn the processing in a thread, and ask us for a filename immediately17:47
cluckjI think I'll stick with unsaturated fats thx17:47
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nmz787then timeout if a new name hasn't been provided after it has the .pdf downloaded17:47
kanzure_tags might be more useful17:48
jrayhawkViper168_: Dyslipidemia is a marker of immune activity. It is very useful in this regard.17:48
jrayhawkIf you have a giant pile of lipopolysaccharide in your bloodstream, *decreasing* cholesterol is not going to help you.17:49
jrayhawkYou are confusing cause and effect.17:49
jrayhawkDo not treat blood parameters, treat diseases.17:49
Viper168_yes but eating things that are proven to increase it will harm you17:50
jrayhawkNo, cholesterol is what you build cell membranes out of.17:50
nmz787huh, so in dire situations inhaled mannitol can wet dry lungs17:50
jrayhawkIt is also a tool of immunology.17:50
Viper168_too much bad and not enough good = bad17:50
Viper168_which is the problem17:50
kanzure_what17:51
Viper168_raising shitty cholesterol17:51
jrayhawkIf you have a population with such severe immunological problems that they are literally ratelimited by cholesterol such that feeding them less fat releases less cholesterol, you are not doing them a favor by providing them with less fat.17:51
jrayhawkThis is why statins do not decrease overall mortality in almost all cases17:51
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nmz787Viper168_: from what i've ascertained, and i've read much less than jrayhawk , it is more important to avoid bad fats but also to be active in removing blood cholesterol18:08
nmz787'rotating stock' as the food store people call it18:08
nmz787or a FIFO buffer18:08
nmz787of cholesterol18:08
nmz787supposedly it is quite toxic after it oxidises, which hanging out in oxygen-exchanging medium seems likely to help out18:09
jrayhawkNotably inflammation/oxidative stress causes more membrane damage and turnover.18:10
jrayhawkAnd lipoproteins also have a lot of direct binding affinities for foreign particles.18:11
jrayhawk(The apolipoprotein B receptor is the one that has problems with arterial intima, but it takes a lot of incompetence for that to accumulate faster than it clears)18:12
jrayhawkViper168_: http://members.shaw.ca/jeanaltemeyer/drbob/TheAuthoritarians.pdf Your appeals to consensus epistemology indicate that you are not yet familiar with how consensus gets built. If you can stomach the political narrative, this is an invaluable resource in learning sound epistemology.18:13
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* nmz787 unwraps a blueberry muffin with butter slathered on it, to wash down with raw milk18:16
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jrayhawkI suppose I should steelman your arguments a bit, though; we still aren't super sure what happens to people with familial hypercholesterolemia in non-inflammatory environments; we do know that, given disease prevelence and fat consumption, there is an underabundance of heart attacks in the 19th century, but it's doubtful that familial hypercholesterolemia is entirely benign.18:23
jrayhawkIt's reasonably probable that these people just felt horrible on the average diet of the day and ate differently.18:24
nmz787twinkies feel good in my stomach once in a while18:24
jrayhawkThere's further complication in that the sorts of stuff people call "fat" nowadays, e.g. gasoline-, bleach-, and ammonia-treated safflower oil is hugely radicalized and not safely metabolizable. This actually represents a legitimate oxidative/inflammatory concern.18:26
jrayhawkNuts, meanwhile, come packaged with, for instance, something as crazy as an atmospheric barrier and vitamin E.18:27
cluckjlol18:30
cluckjglad to see I missed nothing :)18:30
jrayhawkEvolutionarily novel trans fats are similarly not safely metabolizable, and cause similar problems.18:31
cluckjthen why are trans fats in milk18:32
cluckjhmmm science guy???18:32
jrayhawkThose aren't evolutionarily novel.18:32
jrayhawkThose are a normal part of grassland ecologies, to which we are not only well-suited, but largely dependant upon.18:33
jrayhawk(You actually buy grass-fed milk? Good on you.)18:34
jrayhawk(I find it funny when the grain feeding industry plays up the "free of trans-fats!" angle.)18:34
cluckjlol18:34
cluckjI live in upstate NY, grassfed everything is...down the street18:35
jrayhawkI guess I shouldn't refer to familial hypercholesterolemia as a disease.18:38
cluckjhttp://www.battenkillcreamery.com/ <--18:38
jrayhawkIt is probably adaptive somehow. It'd have to be something pretty good to make a worthwhile tradeoff with not being able to chug lard.18:39
cluckjnot chugging lard is a life goal of mine18:39
jrayhawkpiffle18:40
jrayhawkany life without lard chugging is hardly a life at all18:40
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cluckjD:18:45
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jrayhawkand i suppose fatty acids from nuts are also mostly in the form of protective lipid bilayer matricies18:49
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nmz787cluckj: but last i was in NYS, raw milk was hard to get (it was a 40 min one way drive for me in Rochester)18:58
cluckjthere's a few farms that do it around here18:58
cluckjthey make raw milk cheeses too, which are better than the raw milk19:00
nmz787cluckj: I see nothing on that site about grass or grain19:00
nmz787only the stanard 'natural' lingo19:00
nmz787standard*19:00
cluckjthe cows are on a pasture iirc19:00
nmz787well you can't drink cheese19:01
jrayhawkyou can't?19:01
cluckjyou can totally drink cheese.19:01
nmz787also, I don't know how much of a diff it makes, but I avoid milk from cows that eat any grain at all, a lot of /most farmers feed them grain while they get milked19:01
cluckjif it's pasteurized and homogenized there's really not a difference?19:05
jrayhawkThe things that seem like they matter would be menatetrenone, vaccinic acid, and conjugated linoleic acid, which seem like they'd be proportional the level of grass feeding, but I have read a some scary studies on mammory glad permeability of cows that does make me have some safety doubts.19:05
cluckjlol19:05
cluckjthere are things that cows can eat that make the milk fucking terrible19:06
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cluckjhttp://cheesefarmer.com/19:08
cluckjthis place is also the best, I use their yogurt as starter19:08
nmz787ParahSailin_: how much for a family to get sequenced for famlial cancer study?19:13
nmz787ParahSailin_: like per person, as well as minimum order19:14
nmz787ParahSailin_: not counting analysis, just spit/blood/tissue to contigs19:15
ParahSailin_$99, 23andme19:15
nmz787that isn't sequencing19:15
nmz787ParahSailin_: no idea? i'm pretty sure you've rattled off numbers for what i'm looking for before19:17
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ParahSailin_sorry, didnt really read your question21:04
ParahSailin_10x coverage?21:04
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kanzure_who needs reading when you have guns21:05
ParahSailin_lane of hiseq each, ~1k pax21:06
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nmz787ParahSailin_: but isn't there some minimum num of lanes per run?22:12
kanzure_historically interesting bitcin tx https://github.com/petertodd/dust-b-gone/blob/master/lib/python-bitcoinlib/bitcoin/tests/data/tx_valid.json22:12
kanzure_*bitcoin tx22:12
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ParahSailin_8 lanes in a run yo22:18
kanzure_even bitcoin screws up "make clean": https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/454822:18
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nmz787and each lane gives how many X coverage?22:56
nmz7871?22:56
nmz787kanzure_: ParahSailin_ is there anything easier/more appropriate than local BLAST for finding the part # in these two strings (rather than relying on splitting a -  and taking the right side):"http://octopart.com/grm188r60j475ke19d-murata-196916"22:58
nmz787"Murata - GRM188R60J475KE19D"22:58
nmz787i don't care about murata, so I guess in general I'd prefer the right side, but without the - token I'm not sure it would work as I want on short part #s22:59
nmz787thought I could lstrip non-whitespace from the left side first, to make it less weighty on an alignment23:00
nmz787though*23:00
nmz787for the second string23:02
kanzure_regular expressions23:06
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nmz787BLAST seems more *fun*23:11
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kanzure_ # NOTE: opening up the RPC port to hosts outside your local23:16
kanzure_ # trusted network is NOT RECOMMENDED, because the rpcpassword23:16
kanzure_ # is transmitted over the network unencrypted.23:16
kanzure_wtf23:16
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--- Log closed Fri Jul 18 00:00:07 2014

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