| --- Log opened Sun Jul 27 00:00:16 2014 | ||
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| jrayhawk | paperbot: http://online.liebertpub.com/doi/pdf/10.1089/109662004322984789 | 03:28 |
|---|---|---|
| paperbot | XMLSyntaxError: None (file "/home/bryan/code/paperbot/phenny/modules/scihub.py", line 70, in _go) | 03:28 |
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| cuba_ | http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/dta.1620/abstract | 04:57 |
| cuba_ | paperbot: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/dta.1620/abstract | 04:57 |
| paperbot | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/6d1dcf9a66e7830b6a284fbac4fa69f1.txt | 04:57 |
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| cuba_ | paperbot: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/dta.1620/pdf | 04:58 |
| paperbot | XMLSyntaxError: None (file "/home/bryan/code/paperbot/phenny/modules/scihub.py", line 70, in _go) | 04:58 |
| cuba_ | paperbot: help | 04:58 |
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| eyefi | anyone hass access to this paper fulltext? http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/dta.1620/abstract | 05:03 |
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| chris_99 | does anyone recall the name of that crowdfunding site for research | 05:18 |
| chris_99 | out of interest | 05:18 |
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| chris_99 | got it https://experiment.com/ | 05:20 |
| chris_99 | oh dear me one of the projects is 'does potato salad taste good' | 05:21 |
| archels | could someone try sending me an e-mail? http://www.turingbirds.com/pgp_public_key.txt | 05:23 |
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| streety | has potato salad become the Rick Astley of crowdfunding sites? | 06:23 |
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| kanzure | so nobody is going to fix scihub.py | 06:47 |
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| archels | or e-mail me, apparently | 07:26 |
| * archels sadface | 07:26 | |
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| kanzure | did you want it signed or something | 07:58 |
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| archels | I set up PGP for the first time in my life and wanted to do a sanity check | 08:49 |
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| kanzure | ParahSailin: this dude claims transcriptic.com's pricing is wrong https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8092716 | 09:12 |
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| ParahSailin | who the fuck does growth curves | 09:27 |
| ParahSailin | transcriptic only really has one product | 09:29 |
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| eudoxia | archels: your initials are like the CAP theorem | 09:39 |
| eudoxia | also i would send you an email but i only set up GPG to use keybase and don't know how to use it | 09:39 |
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| kanzure | archels: there you go | 09:48 |
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| archels | it works! | 10:04 |
| archels | thank you | 10:04 |
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| delinquentme | WEHHHHHHHHHHHHHH | 10:29 |
| delinquentme | archels, np glad I could help | 10:30 |
| streety | re: transcriptic pricing - I'm probably one of the least anti-college folks in here but the line about free undergrad labor really annoys me | 10:32 |
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| kanzure | streety: that's how it happens :\ | 12:37 |
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| streety | perhaps I've just been lucky | 13:08 |
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| dpk | paperbot: http://www.jstor.org/stable/41970403 | 15:33 |
| paperbot | XMLSyntaxError: None (file "/home/bryan/code/paperbot/phenny/modules/scihub.py", line 70, in _go) | 15:33 |
| dpk | yay, my favourite | 15:33 |
| dpk | paperbot: http://www.jstor.orf/discover/10.2307/41970403 | 15:34 |
| paperbot | ConnectionError: HTTPConnectionPool(host='www.jstor.orf', port=80): Max retries exceeded with url: /discover/10.2307/41970403 (Caused by <class 'socket.gaierror'>: [Errno -2] Name or service not known) (file "/usr/local/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/requests/adapters.py", line 375, in send) | 15:34 |
| dpk | whoops | 15:35 |
| dpk | paperbot: http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/41970403 | 15:35 |
| paperbot | XMLSyntaxError: None (file "/home/bryan/code/paperbot/phenny/modules/scihub.py", line 70, in _go) | 15:35 |
| gnusha_ | https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/paperbot/commit/?id=213e5ec3 Carl Crott: added login credentials file to .gitignore | 15:37 |
| gnusha_ | https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/paperbot/commit/?id=f6b96df8 Bryan Bishop: Merge pull request #30 from carlcrott/master | 15:37 |
| gnusha_ | https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/paperbot/commit/?id=0411c839 Bryan Bishop: better scihub error handling | 15:37 |
| gnusha_ | https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/paperbot/commit/?id=11be9a6a Bryan Bishop: Merge pull request #31 from kanzure/scihubgo | 15:37 |
| gnusha_ | paperbot: reload papers | 15:37 |
| kanzure_ | grr | 15:38 |
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| kanzure | paperbot: http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/41970403 | 15:40 |
| paperbot | AttributeError: 'str' object has no attribute 'text' (file "/home/bryan/code/paperbot/phenny/modules/scihub.py", line 73, in _go) | 15:40 |
| kanzure | doh | 15:40 |
| nmz787 | that paper is weird, and jstor seems even weirder | 15:40 |
| gnusha_ | https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/paperbot/commit/?id=6cb280fa Bryan Bishop: correct for weird variable name | 15:41 |
| gnusha_ | paperbot: reload papers | 15:41 |
| nmz787 | even with a school proxy it wants you to login | 15:41 |
| kanzure | paperbot: reload scihub | 15:41 |
| paperbot | kanzure: <module 'scihub' from '/srv/ikiwiki/paperbot/modules/scihub.py'> (version: 2014-07-27 22:41:17) | 15:41 |
| kanzure | paperbot: http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/41970403 | 15:41 |
| paperbot | AttributeError: 'str' object has no attribute 'text' (file "/home/bryan/code/paperbot/phenny/modules/scihub.py", line 73, in _go) | 15:41 |
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| kanzure | man why has nobody written unit tests for this | 15:42 |
| nmz787 | hmm, and it has an IP and timestamp | 15:42 |
| kanzure | paperbot: http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/41970403 | 15:42 |
| nmz787 | i finally got it | 15:42 |
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| kanzure | i don't care | 15:42 |
| paperbot | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/a970c0e236f1df152bf1345c47d7ea9c.txt | 15:42 |
| kanzure | manually fetching a paper is not something that a human should be doing under any circumstance | 15:42 |
| nmz787 | :) | 15:43 |
| kanzure | it's like watching a random number generator as entertainment | 15:43 |
| nmz787 | I can stop | 15:43 |
| kanzure | you could fix paperbot | 15:43 |
| nmz787 | well in this case unless scihub had it, it would have failed | 15:43 |
| nmz787 | dpk: http://diyhpl.us/~nmz787/pdf/Slayer_Slang_A_Buffy_the_Vampire_Slayer_Lexicon.pdf | 15:44 |
| kanzure | what part of 'fix' is confusing in there | 15:44 |
| kanzure | "it would have failed"... but "fix" sort of changes the scenario, you know. | 15:44 |
| dpk | nmz787: ty! | 15:44 |
| kanzure | dpk: paperbot things? | 15:44 |
| dpk | literally just see the PM i literally just sent you | 15:45 |
| nmz787 | paperbot: http://dx.doi.org/10.1063/1.1492304 | 15:50 |
| paperbot | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/10f411d63c859c1934f4324480f2f7ed.txt | 15:50 |
| kanzure | <link rel="schema.CRAWLER" href="http://labs.ingenta.com/2006/06/16/crawler" /> | 15:51 |
| nmz787 | http://diyhpl.us/~nmz787/pdf/Integrating_micro-_and_nanoelectrodes_into_atomic_force_microscopy_cantilevers_using_focused_ion_beam_techniques.pdf | 15:52 |
| nmz787 | Fig 2 shows the milling procedure | 15:54 |
| nmz787 | each step is increasing in magnificiation | 15:54 |
| nmz787 | i think | 15:54 |
| nmz787 | maybe that's wrong | 15:55 |
| nmz787 | "The first milling steps @depicted in Fig. 2~a!# with a high beam current of 150 pA" | 15:56 |
| nmz787 | that's still low compared to the 10,000 pA limit of the machine i was using | 15:56 |
| nmz787 | "The | 15:57 |
| nmz787 | remodeled tip height was adjusted at 1.5 mm and 650 nm." | 15:57 |
| nmz787 | http://diyhpl.us/~nmz787/pdf/Development_of_a_regeneration-type_neural_interface_A_microtube_guide_for_axon_growth_of_neuronal_cells_fabricated_using_focused-ion-beam_chemical_vapor_deposition.pdf | 16:02 |
| nmz787 | "This system could use two types of precursor gas: phenanthrene or tungsten hexacarbonyl." | 16:05 |
| nmz787 | 3-D printing :P | 16:05 |
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| nmz787 | huh, 24/7 FIB access at NIST (with prices listed) http://www.nist.gov/cnst/nanofab/fei_fib_2.cfm | 16:15 |
| nmz787 | pretty nice machine too | 16:15 |
| nmz787 | though it doesn't seem to have TEMlink | 16:15 |
| kanzure | .g temlink | 16:15 |
| yoleaux | http://www.microscop.ru/uploads/2008_05_TemLink_ds.pdf | 16:15 |
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| nmz787 | http://www.microscopy-analysis.com/blog/blog-articles/focused-ion-beam-%E2%80%93-all-grown | 16:22 |
| nmz787 | TEMlink is the answer to the "micromanipulator" in the last link | 16:23 |
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| nmz787 | huh "A microfluidic device created using the Helios FIB, courtesy of FEI." | 16:27 |
| nmz787 | hmm, they make a 2uA FIB, I didn't know that | 16:28 |
| nmz787 | that'd be 2,000,000 pA right? | 16:28 |
| nmz787 | paperbot: http://dx.doi.org/10.1155/2012/591083 | 16:34 |
| paperbot | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/4a17c40a4e6db32730c523b6397526c3.txt | 16:34 |
| nmz787 | so what's the problem? | 16:35 |
| nmz787 | it seems that paper was free to me | 16:35 |
| nmz787 | and i ctrl-f 'ed .pdf | 16:35 |
| nmz787 | in the .txt | 16:35 |
| nmz787 | paperbot: http://downloads.hindawi.com/journals/ijo/2012/591083.pdf | 16:35 |
| paperbot | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/829941b7b68a253327e19e3a4d1b69dd.txt | 16:35 |
| jrayhawk | https://crowdfund.ucsf.edu/project/53c5747114bdf74eecbe1cfc crowdfunded PCOS/Paleo RCT for anyone here interested | 16:46 |
| kanzure | bbrittain: https://groups.google.com/group/diybio | 16:54 |
| bbrittain | kanzure: aware of them :P | 16:55 |
| kanzure | ah, well, that's where people are i guess | 16:55 |
| * bbrittain is arguably one of them | 16:55 | |
| kanzure | you are also a person? quite a twist.. | 16:55 |
| bbrittain | yea, crazy. I know. | 16:56 |
| bbrittain | but I have some issues with the DIYbio scene... | 16:56 |
| kanzure | ? | 16:57 |
| bbrittain | oh, emphasis of some projects | 16:57 |
| kanzure | what about the "let's create institutions so that we can participate in non-institutional biology" | 16:57 |
| bbrittain | ++ to that | 16:57 |
| bbrittain | <- has no formal biology training | 16:57 |
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| nsh | let's stop creating institutions. | 16:59 |
| nsh | (let's start elaborating protocols that are capable of incorporating institutional expertise and self-organizational competency) | 16:59 |
| kanzure | saywhat | 17:00 |
| nsh | mm, there's a talk somewhere | 17:00 |
| bbrittain | I really like the emphasis of a few of the SynBio axlr8r groups. despite the dreadful name | 17:00 |
| bbrittain | especially the briefcase biotec stuff | 17:00 |
| kanzure | bbrittain, i think more biotech accelerators will happen as soon as people show the costs are low enough to not need $200k | 17:01 |
| kanzure | bbrittain, because most of the software accelerators are only offering $10-$20k for like 6% of a venture | 17:01 |
| kanzure | which is a really tiny amount | 17:01 |
| kanzure | nsh, i've been thinking about academia and math | 17:01 |
| nsh | .t http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vU1s4aILGNY | 17:02 |
| yoleaux | nsh: Sorry, I don't know a timezone by that name. | 17:02 |
| kanzure | it seems that math, out of all the other fields, probably gets the least from the ivory tower than other fields | 17:02 |
| bbrittain | yea, I agree. but yay ginkgo getting that YC funding. that will help spur things along | 17:02 |
| nsh | .title | 17:02 |
| yoleaux | Eleanor Saitta & Smári McCarthy: Long Live the Protocoletariat! (29c3) | 17:02 |
| nsh | kanzure, by what measure? | 17:02 |
| nsh | protection from the saecular powers? | 17:02 |
| kanzure | oh yeah.. nsh knows of smári. things you forget.. | 17:02 |
| kanzure | no i mean, math is serviced by the ivory tower mostly in terms of prestige | 17:02 |
| kanzure | no big labs that require lots of funding | 17:03 |
| nsh | i met smári | 17:03 |
| nsh | he told me "you have to win" | 17:03 |
| nsh | ah, right | 17:03 |
| kanzure | well, he wasn't wrong | 17:03 |
| * nsh nods | 17:03 | |
| nmz787 | "In the near future, laser diodes will replace the centenarian-old spark plug as the source of ignition in vehicle engines, so says Takunori Taira, of Japan's National Institutes of Natural Sciences, and his colleagues." | 17:03 |
| nsh | (how many watts/m^2 of EMP flux do you need to kill a laser-diode spark plug?) | 17:04 |
| nmz787 | "Just in case you are interested, any RFI generated by transportation vehicles, are exempt from Part 15 of the FCC's Rules and Regulations" | 17:06 |
| kanzure | unlike biotech that requires, you know, stuff, math requires less stuff | 17:06 |
| nmz787 | the tech in biotech relies on EE and physics and quantum physics which relies on math | 17:06 |
| kanzure | i mean there's no particular reason for a mathematician to physically be at a physical university. and i'm suspicious even of the digital case too. | 17:07 |
| nmz787 | realistically biotech would probably do great if they brought in tons of math people | 17:07 |
| nsh | but there's a sense in which maths requires much more than any other discipline | 17:07 |
| bbrittain | I'm rather skeptical of that actually nmz787 | 17:07 |
| kanzure | nsh, like what | 17:07 |
| nsh | engineering doesn't require anyone to 'get it' to continue working | 17:07 |
| kanzure | what's wrong with requiring people to get it | 17:07 |
| nsh | maths requires a body of people who can traverse the deductive landscape | 17:08 |
| nmz787 | bbrittain: so much real work is all based on knowing what way to machine or synthesize something based on some modelling and calculations | 17:08 |
| nsh | and pass on that ability | 17:08 |
| nsh | that's pretty fragile | 17:08 |
| nmz787 | cutting experiment time | 17:08 |
| kanzure | nsh, well i mean, let's limit the scope of mathematicians to people who are mathematicians | 17:08 |
| * nsh nods | 17:08 | |
| nmz787 | or rather number of failed experiments | 17:08 |
| bbrittain | nmz787: right, but it's not like a decent biologist can't do that relatively simple math. I mean, it's what they have been trained for. | 17:09 |
| bbrittain | s/biologist/biotechy-biologist/ | 17:09 |
| bbrittain | I've worked with some pretty bad at math biologists | 17:09 |
| nmz787 | bbrittain: that kind of math is not simple | 17:10 |
| bbrittain | it's like diffeq | 17:10 |
| nmz787 | that's well over most bio people | 17:10 |
| nmz787 | certainly in terms of actually being able to crunch numbers, or tell a computer to do so | 17:11 |
| nmz787 | most *people* glaze over when you mention algebra let alone calculus | 17:11 |
| nmz787 | i don't know the % of 'smart' people alive | 17:12 |
| bbrittain | well, really the problem hear is conflation of terminology. when I'm saying biologist right now, I'm not necessarily meaning a ecology/phylogeny/etc.. bio person. I'm talking mostly about synbio people. | 17:12 |
| bbrittain | but that is probably my bad | 17:12 |
| nmz787 | well even those people would benefit | 17:13 |
| nmz787 | that monk who looked at peas knew some math | 17:13 |
| bbrittain | nmz787: I think you are highly underestimating the amount of domain specific knowledge | 17:13 |
| kanzure | i don't know why you are talking about this, nmz787 | 17:13 |
| kanzure | i mentioned math people, and you mentioned biology because why? | 17:13 |
| bbrittain | you can't just throw smart math people at a problem and expect them to see the answers without understanding the problem space | 17:14 |
| nmz787 | kanzure: I think you mentioned it to someone | 17:14 |
| bbrittain | kanzure: probably because I briefly mentioned diybio | 17:14 |
| nmz787 | bbrittain: no, i'm saying make it their careers | 17:14 |
| kanzure | why make it their careers? | 17:14 |
| nmz787 | so that they're math-backed bio ppl | 17:14 |
| nmz787 | :/ | 17:15 |
| kanzure | huh? | 17:15 |
| nmz787 | so they understand the problem space | 17:15 |
| nmz787 | and the math space | 17:15 |
| nmz787 | like of course they should be interested | 17:15 |
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| kanzure | what problem are you solving? "i would prefer more biology people that have math backgrounds"? | 17:15 |
| nmz787 | i'm just saying it would improve things overall | 17:15 |
| bbrittain | we could just make more math mandatory for bio majors :D | 17:16 |
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| nmz787 | yeah | 17:16 |
| bbrittain | but anyways. gonna go check out that glowing plant and be amazingly unimpressed in a few days | 17:17 |
| kanzure | why would you bother? | 17:18 |
| bbrittain | well, I've been meaning to check out biocurious while I'm out in cali this summer | 17:18 |
| bbrittain | so I can compare it to genspace | 17:18 |
| kanzure | got it.. i thought you were just intentionally engaging projects you know are crap | 17:18 |
| bbrittain | well, I think it's incredibly overhyped and is using a shitty toolchain | 17:19 |
| bbrittain | but... a glowing plant could be cool. although, aradopsis is ugly. | 17:19 |
| nsh | .wik aradopsis | 17:19 |
| yoleaux | "Arabidopsis (rockcress) is a genus in the family Brassicaceae. They are small flowering plants related to cabbage and mustard. This genus is of great interest since it contains thale cress (Arabidopsis thaliana), one of the model organisms used for studying plant biology and the first plant to have its entire genome sequenced." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabidopsis | 17:19 |
| kanzure | you know it doesn't glow, right | 17:19 |
| bbrittain | kanzure: damn, is it that bad? | 17:20 |
| bbrittain | I heard they had it glowing faintly a few months ago | 17:20 |
| bbrittain | and, I mean it should get better the more times they repeat their cycle | 17:20 |
| kanzure | haha | 17:20 |
| kanzure | ahaha | 17:21 |
| bbrittain | yes? | 17:21 |
| nmz787 | arabidopsis isn't ugly! | 17:22 |
| nmz787 | i bet it would make pretty damn good saag paneer | 17:22 |
| kanzure | i don't even know where to begin explaining all the lies | 17:23 |
| kanzure | a good lie has the advantage of being hard to remember why it's a lie | 17:23 |
| bbrittain | 1. is it not glowing? | 17:23 |
| bbrittain | at all? | 17:23 |
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| bbrittain | shit. I got distracted by their website. I forgot what my #2 was gonna be | 17:25 |
| bbrittain | also, that is really expensive:http://www.glowingplant.com/maker#_=_ | 17:26 |
| bbrittain | the maker kit | 17:26 |
| bbrittain | kanzure: elaborate? | 17:29 |
| nmz787 | i think it's more of, where is their proof | 17:30 |
| * nmz787 checking the 'blog' | 17:30 | |
| nmz787 | http://blog.glowingplant.com/post/91858017889/johan-managed-to-capture-the-first-photo-of-the | 17:31 |
| nmz787 | bbrittain: ^ | 17:31 |
| bbrittain | nmz787: well, they seem to have some long exposure images | 17:31 |
| nmz787 | plus not much info otherwise | 17:31 |
| nmz787 | not what I'd expect from a company/project blog | 17:31 |
| bbrittain | damn, thats a long exposure | 17:31 |
| bbrittain | look at the noise | 17:31 |
| bbrittain | but, I still don't really see lies, merely ineptness. | 17:32 |
| nmz787 | well taking peoples money with a flashy video at the onset then not doing much progress updating to the world at large seems a bit strange | 17:33 |
| nmz787 | maybe if you backed the kickstarter you can see more updates | 17:33 |
| nmz787 | idk | 17:33 |
| kanzure | "merely ineptness" | 17:34 |
| kanzure | wasn't there some scam about using luciferin or a fluorescent protein somewhere in here | 17:35 |
| bbrittain | 0_o | 17:35 |
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| kanzure | hrmm i should have taken notes | 17:36 |
| nmz787 | bbrittain: def go and report back https://www.eventbrite.com/e/meet-the-glowing-plant-biocurious-tickets-12407399867 | 17:36 |
| nmz787 | if you can | 17:36 |
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| nsh | .ety inept | 17:36 |
| yoleaux | inept (adj.): "c.1600, from Old French inepte (14c.) or directly from Latin ineptus "unsuitable, improper, absurd, awkward, silly, tactless," from in- "not, opposite of" (see in- (1)) + aptus "apt" (see apt). Related: Ineptly; ineptness." — http://etymonline.com/index.php?term=inept | 17:36 |
| bbrittain | nmz787: already signed up | 17:36 |
| bbrittain | kanzure: gmaxwell and I are going :P | 17:36 |
| bbrittain | but, are you saying the don't actually have it producing luciferin? | 17:36 |
| nsh | i wish i could go places with gmaxwell :/ | 17:37 |
| kanzure | bbrittain: go to the one that has juul | 17:37 |
| kanzure | juul: ping | 17:37 |
| nsh | and by places i mean a basement where i chain him up until i have sucked all the braingroks out with elaborate tubes | 17:37 |
| kanzure | bbrittain: there's also the east bay one, but i haven't been there | 17:38 |
| bbrittain | yea, counter culture labs | 17:38 |
| bbrittain | I still think biocurious is the big one though | 17:39 |
| kanzure | not as big as you'd think! | 17:39 |
| bbrittain | out here | 17:39 |
| bbrittain | really? have you been to genspace? | 17:39 |
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| bbrittain | larger or smaller? | 17:39 |
| kanzure | i have been to genspace | 17:39 |
| kanzure | well, it depends on how you math it | 17:39 |
| kanzure | biocurious revealed a few months ago that they only have like <15 paying members | 17:39 |
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| kanzure | genspace does more classes, so probably has more money | 17:39 |
| kanzure | genspace definitely had less space overall. even though the building was larger. | 17:40 |
| bbrittain | yea, I took a class out there a few years ago. it was kinda fun. | 17:40 |
| kanzure | biocurious was suffering from a lot of in fighting | 17:40 |
| kanzure | jojack left to do another one in san diego or carlsbad | 17:40 |
| bbrittain | well.... maybe you aren't familiar with how much infighting there is at genspace :P | 17:40 |
| jcluck | there's not that much infighting at genspace | 17:41 |
| kanzure | "sung stole all the money, wah" | 17:41 |
| bbrittain | haaaa | 17:41 |
| kanzure | it's stupid anyway-- why do they even associate with the diybio community | 17:42 |
| kanzure | (i mean, both biocurious and genspace) | 17:43 |
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| jcluck | to vex you | 17:43 |
| kanzure | oh | 17:43 |
| jcluck | duh :P | 17:43 |
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| bbrittain | well, I mean at least at genspace they actively believe in educating a community I think. | 17:43 |
| kanzure | biocurious has classes too. i think. | 17:43 |
| bbrittain | yea, they seemed worthless | 17:44 |
| kanzure | hah | 17:44 |
| kanzure | i like you | 17:44 |
| jcluck | lol | 17:44 |
| jcluck | genspace classes are nice, and copious | 17:44 |
| bbrittain | lol, thanks | 17:44 |
| bbrittain | jcluck: you involved? | 17:45 |
| jcluck | yes, but not in the last 6 months | 17:45 |
| kanzure | too busy selfishly dying | 17:45 |
| jcluck | actually the complete opposite, expecting a kid in september | 17:46 |
| jcluck | I've been taking care of my pregnant-as-hell partner | 17:47 |
| kanzure | also selfish | 17:47 |
| bbrittain | oh thank god. I've been trying to figure out how to ask if you are feeling better with the potential for a terminal disease. | 17:47 |
| jcluck | probably | 17:47 |
| jcluck | LOL | 17:47 |
| jcluck | it's not COMPLETELY terminal | 17:47 |
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| jcluck | I was diagnosed with type 1 diabetes last july and had to stop doing so much fieldwork at genspace | 17:48 |
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| bbrittain | aww, late onset diabetes sucks | 17:48 |
| bbrittain | I wish I lived in NYC again so that I could do stuff at genspace | 17:49 |
| bbrittain | what is the Boston equivalent? | 17:49 |
| bbrittain | if there is one | 17:50 |
| jcluck | bosslab | 17:50 |
| kanzure | bosslab, and the other thing that someone is doing | 17:50 |
| bbrittain | how is bosslab? | 17:50 |
| bbrittain | sweet, like 10 minutes away from my soon-to-be-apt | 17:50 |
| kanzure | possibly idle? i haven't checked | 17:50 |
| jcluck | not very active | 17:50 |
| bbrittain | damn | 17:51 |
| jcluck | it's right off of davis square | 17:51 |
| jcluck | the thing about them is if a few people want to do things, things happen | 17:51 |
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| bbrittain | huh, they have shit going on: http://www.meetup.com/Open-Science-hands-on-learning-BossLab/ | 17:51 |
| kanzure | hey that sounds like the rest of life | 17:51 |
| bbrittain | meh, I'll check them out too | 17:52 |
| jcluck | aw 8/5 | 17:52 |
| kanzure | nsh: the potential to troll gmaxwell through bbrittain is very very high | 17:54 |
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| bbrittain | it may indeed be possible | 17:55 |
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| bbrittain | but only for another month, for I leave for boston | 17:55 |
| bbrittain | so scheme quickly | 17:56 |
| kanzure | okay, so you're going to play the role of the nsa double agent | 17:56 |
| kanzure | and uh, well we're going to need a helicopter | 17:56 |
| nmz787 | kanzure: i'm sending you the details of which copter to buy on craigslist | 17:56 |
| bbrittain | s/helicopter/quadrocopter/ | 17:56 |
| kanzure | we shall call it the trollcopter | 17:56 |
| bbrittain | it's 2014 | 17:56 |
| kanzure | and then some backstory about airdropping a scamcoin | 17:57 |
| nmz787 | according to a recent hollywood movie a working helicopter costs $3 million | 17:57 |
| kanzure | renting is not out of question | 17:58 |
| bbrittain | oh my. you should hear him about altcoins in meatspace. | 17:58 |
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| kanzure | i am sure it is hilarious and endearing | 17:58 |
| nsh | wouldn't really want to gmaxwell. one of the few people who has never said or written anything that has given the relatively-large part of my brain that checks to see who's probably stupider than me any ammunition | 17:59 |
| nsh | and that is probably the hardest-working part of my brain | 17:59 |
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| bbrittain | kanzure, in every way | 17:59 |
| nmz787 | anyone around who reads chinese? http://www.instructables.com/id/A-Low-Cost-Atomic-Force-Microscope-%E4%BD%8E%E6%88%90%E6%9C%AC%E5%8E%9F%E5%AD%90%E5%8A%9B%E9%A1%AF%E5%BE%AE%E9%8F%A1/#step1 | 18:00 |
| bbrittain | 我可以 | 18:00 |
| nmz787 | what are the copper washer looking things? | 18:00 |
| nmz787 | are they copper washers? | 18:00 |
| kanzure | he was bitten by a radioactive satoshi nakamoto | 18:00 |
| kanzure | which explains why he has a brain gland that only does cryptocurrency simulations in his head | 18:00 |
| * nsh smiles | 18:01 | |
| nsh | i have tried to suggest a more empirical approach to simulating putative cryptocurrency rulesets on a few occasions | 18:01 |
| nsh | maybe it would work better if you were to just code it, kanzure | 18:01 |
| nsh | i can't envision a situation where i'd be sufficiently unlazy to do so | 18:01 |
| kanzure | maybe, i was kind of hoping for amiller or andytoshi to invent the idea first though | 18:02 |
| nsh | aye, they're pretty good for that | 18:02 |
| nsh | good point actually, we should probably make rules about which people aren't allowed on the same plane/bus/train at the same time | 18:02 |
| kanzure | it is hard to figure out how to account for externalities in a rigid ruleset | 18:02 |
| nsh | that's certainly one way to concisely summarize the gist of economic intractability | 18:03 |
| kanzure | sybil wouldn't matter if all humans were dead | 18:03 |
| kanzure | everything becomes way easier with no support for users | 18:04 |
| bbrittain | nmz787: no clue. my chinese does not extend to that technical level | 18:04 |
| kanzure | that was already in the logs | 18:04 |
| kanzure | en-te hwu, etc | 18:04 |
| kanzure | http://books.google.com.tw/books/about?id=rRtyAwAAQBAJ&redir_esc=y | 18:05 |
| bbrittain | that is cool | 18:05 |
| kanzure | nsh: also it would require some bounds on what exactly the software is supposed to be doing (axiomatic proofs of "security"? simulations of agents doing things that we already predict they will be doing?) | 18:06 |
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| * nsh nods | 18:06 | |
| kanzure | i suppose at minimum having a declarative syntax for listing out the behaviors is nice, even if it doesn't cover all possible behaviors | 18:07 |
| nsh | in my head i just kinda imagine a FisherPrice My-First-Distributed-Consensus-Ledger-Based-On-Economic-Hacks-To-Impossibility-Proofs play-kit | 18:07 |
| nsh | the details are kinda play-dough and day-glo | 18:07 |
| nsh | w | 18:07 |
| nsh | but vaguely you should be able to visualize convergent and divergent behaviour relatively simple in a graphical way | 18:08 |
| nsh | and have some tunable parameters and a bit more involved under-the-hood swap-and-match algorithmic circuitry | 18:08 |
| nsh | at the kind of level of complexity as those radio-shack 300-in-1 electronics projects kids | 18:09 |
| kanzure | when i am headthinking distributed ledger scenarios, visualization isn't my weapon of choice | 18:09 |
| kanzure | it's more like a breadth-first conflict of interest comparator | 18:09 |
| kanzure | .. thing. | 18:09 |
| nsh | there's nothing like moving-blobs to concretize the grok of wot-went-ooops | 18:09 |
| nsh | but that's possibly cognitive provincialism on my part | 18:09 |
| kanzure | "conflict of interest" is probably the wrong way to say it | 18:10 |
| nsh | you have to consider the dimensionality of the space of interest before you can talk about conflict | 18:10 |
| nsh | let alone orthogonality | 18:10 |
| nmz787 | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjQSVTLAgbI | 18:10 |
| kanzure | intersecting curved surfaces of fucked up incentives | 18:10 |
| nsh | (let alone different non-commutative vectorial decomposition) | 18:11 |
| nsh | +s | 18:11 |
| nmz787 | paperbot: http://books.google.com.tw/books/about?id=rRtyAwAAQBAJ&redir_esc=y | 18:12 |
| paperbot | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/5205558733eeac3df2c0d2416d08b6e9.txt | 18:12 |
| kanzure | nsh: maybe it should go the other way around, where small primitives can be thrown together where their boundary conditions can be highlighted when you do things poorly | 18:13 |
| kanzure | and then rather than doing simulations it's just a more analytical thing | 18:15 |
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| kanzure | .g categories of conflicts of interest | 18:16 |
| yoleaux | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conflict_of_interest | 18:16 |
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| nsh | i'm not sure the domain necessarily affords the kind of continuum hack that makes analysis magic | 18:17 |
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| nsh | maybe there can be a calculus of limiting irrationality | 18:17 |
| nsh | qua in-the-limit | 18:18 |
| kanzure | where is kragen when you need him | 18:19 |
| nsh | next door | 18:20 |
| nsh | discussing giant porn | 18:20 |
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| nsh | "Differential Games: A Mathematical Theory with Applications to Warfare and Pursuit, Control and Optimization" -- http://books.google.co.uk/books/about/Differential_Games.html?id=XIxmMyIQgm0C&redir_esc=y | 18:22 |
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| kanzure | i kinda want a sarcastic version of antichamber made to troll programmers | 18:22 |
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| kanzure | "Sometimes software is indeterministic. Or not." | 18:22 |
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| kanzure | "When first things don't succeed, try switching to UTF-16LE." | 18:22 |
| nsh | i used to like looking at the stamp-page in books in the library to see how often/infrequently they'd been borrowed. shame now with self-service it's not reliable | 18:22 |
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| bbrittain | stumbled across this, I had stopped caring long ago though | 18:38 |
| bbrittain | https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/diybio/9ui-uqQB3NU | 18:38 |
| bbrittain | kanzure: ^ | 18:38 |
| bbrittain | wasn't aware there were 2 companies doing this | 18:38 |
| kanzure | there was also glofish | 18:48 |
| nmz787 | except glofish is real | 18:50 |
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| heath | kanzure: is it worth working for halcyon? | 19:50 |
| heath | i know you did some work for them previously | 19:50 |
| heath | someone is starting or has started something again | 19:51 |
| heath | lee nelson mentioned it in a tweet | 19:51 |
| kanzure | nope i didn't work for them | 19:56 |
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| nmz787 | heath: if the money is good, it seems like it would likely be an interesting and potentially rewarding experience | 20:23 |
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| ParahSailin | wait i thought they went bankrupt | 20:34 |
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| kanzure | the world of vc money doesn't quite work like that | 20:41 |
| ParahSailin | they went to stealth mode and put up a fake domain camping page? | 20:53 |
| kanzure | bankruptcy would be listed publicly i think | 20:54 |
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| bbrittain | kanzure: yea, but glofish is patented. | 22:17 |
| * bbrittain would never buy | 22:17 | |
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| nmz787 | you don't use patented things? I wouldn't buy it because it's fluorescent. | 22:29 |
| bbrittain | nmz787: as much as possible, I have a particularly strong aversion to patents in the life sciences | 22:32 |
| * bbrittain is very worried, he is about to start a job at a place that might have some patents | 22:32 | |
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| bbrittain | yea, shit. I just checked | 22:54 |
| bbrittain | I'm gonna have to learn to deal with it | 22:54 |
| * bbrittain is sad | 22:54 | |
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| --- Log closed Mon Jul 28 00:00:17 2014 | ||
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