| --- Log opened Thu Aug 14 00:00:34 2014 | ||
| dingo_ | its *very* frustrating to have your screen locked mid-programming a difficult problem... really drove me nuts, but its your health, you gotta work at it | 00:01 |
|---|---|---|
| dingo_ | a non-physician recommended maybe my hands were just too weak, i did a routine of pull-ups, push-ups, and those hand strengthener things you hold in your palm and squeeze on springs, i found no effect there, physician told me it was ok to exercise, it wouldn't harm, but it wouldn't particularly help either -- stretching does | 00:03 |
| dingo_ | i found good success with applying ice just below the elbow under times of great pain -- recommend a gel ice-pack, using raw cubed ice can sometimes hit your nerve on an edge and bring more pain | 00:04 |
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| dingo_ | socially, try not to bring it up... its on your mind all the time, so its the first thing you want to mention sometimes, that your hands hurt, but nobody wants to hear about that, its not ok to bitch about arthritis until you're at least 65, i figure | 00:06 |
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| delinquentme | dingo do you know if you have any predispositions to allergies? | 00:33 |
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| drewbug | paperbot, http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12848287 | 07:13 |
| kanzure | hm | 07:25 |
| ParahSailin | " It was later found out that Kanzi was actually producing the articulate equivalent of the symbols he was indicating, or, in other words, he was "saying" (articulating) these words, although in a very high pitch and with distortions" ok, so if thats true, why hasnt anyone fit a voice distortion box on the monkey | 07:30 |
| cuba | paperbot: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0040403911005119 | 07:31 |
| paperbot | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/222b8b38e62aae0bc62a0ad07b44d8ab.txt | 07:31 |
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| dingo_ | < delinquentme> dingo do you know if you have any predispositions to allergies? | 07:42 |
| dingo_ | yah, many food allergies -- does that relate to hand pain? | 07:42 |
| kanzure | inflammation? yes | 07:44 |
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| heath | http://open.spreadshirt.com | 08:33 |
| heath | i've sold something like 50+ shirts now and my commission is $23, you can cash out at $25 | 08:33 |
| heath | the idea was to make a shirt i wanted, and then buy it from commission | 08:34 |
| heath | one day, i will one of these shirts | 08:34 |
| heath | useless update for the day | 08:34 |
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| kanzure | missing verb | 08:35 |
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| heath | i'm really good at that | 08:37 |
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| heath | win 7 | 08:47 |
| kanzure | agreed | 08:48 |
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| nmz787_i | dingo_: sheena: my mom has been having good results with corydalis for neuronal pain | 09:44 |
| kanzure | problem is burned hands | 09:45 |
| kanzure | friction burns | 09:45 |
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| nmz787_i | oh | 09:54 |
| nmz787_i | well that seems like time solves that one | 09:54 |
| ParahSailin | ask me for anything but time | 09:56 |
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| kanzure | ParahSailin: since you're on a refactoring streak, https://github.com/kanzure/brlcad/tree/master/src/other/openNURBS | 10:03 |
| ParahSailin | fuckyaoyua | 10:03 |
| ParahSailin | hsda | 10:03 |
| kanzure | that doesn't sound good for your blood pressure | 10:04 |
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| chris_99 | so this is very silly, i've just been looking at this colour changing pen thing on KS (which has just been removed) but i was thinking you could make something like it using microfluidics, looking at some lovely youtube examples | 10:12 |
| chris_99 | how much do such chips usual cost out of curiousity | 10:13 |
| nmz787_i | mass-wise cents or dollars depending on the material | 10:16 |
| kanzure | stanford had a commercial foundry thing offering $400/mold | 10:16 |
| nmz787_i | "Welcome to the DEF CON BioHacking Village discussion & planning list. This is not yet an official event, but it should be confirmed in the next month or two. DEF CON 23 will be Aug 6th thu 9th 2015 at the Paris Hotel in Las Vegas, which means much more conference space than the Rio. The DC-BioHacking Village is for anyone interested in topics such as ethics, human genetics, correcting common misconceptions (myths & misinformation), health, neurohac | 10:16 |
| nmz787_i | ugh, "DNA printing" | 10:16 |
| chris_99 | hmm $400 isn't so bad | 10:16 |
| chris_99 | not that it's chaep | 10:17 |
| chris_99 | i was looking @ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpbUvSyeRg0 | 10:18 |
| kanzure | .title | 10:18 |
| yoleaux | Droplet Dispensing and Mixing in Digital Microfluidics | 10:18 |
| kanzure | see also https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL5AFDE0D7CCE51ACE | 10:18 |
| chris_99 | ooh | 10:19 |
| chris_99 | thanks | 10:19 |
| nmz787_i | "You might have (unaccountably) skirted APHIS regulation, but that doesn't mean you don't have an ethical obligation to (1) thoroughly assess the biosafety of these plants; and (2) be frank in communicating these risks (and their uncertainty) to the public, even if they do not make as clean of a narrative as one would like." | 10:19 |
| nmz787_i | are morals laws though? | 10:19 |
| nmz787_i | I don't think so | 10:19 |
| nmz787_i | chris_99: for something like a pen, the cost should be much less than $400 | 10:20 |
| nmz787_i | chris_99: shrinky dinks would probably work for that scale | 10:20 |
| chris_99 | shrinky dinks? | 10:20 |
| nmz787_i | kids toys | 10:20 |
| nmz787_i | google/amazon it and Michelle Khine | 10:21 |
| chris_99 | http://www.rsc.org/Publishing/ChemTech/Volume/2008/01/Shrinky-Dink_microfluidics.asp | 10:21 |
| chris_99 | wow | 10:21 |
| chris_99 | crazy | 10:21 |
| nmz787_i | "Best of luck with your project, but do keep in mind ethical obligations to your stakeholders override any other imperatives or agendas you might have." | 10:22 |
| nmz787_i | hah, that seems to assume the stakeholders care also... which they may not | 10:22 |
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| kanzure | stakeholders staking some steaky stake | 10:25 |
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| nmz787_i | how do I spam the crap out of some chinese online scam store? | 10:51 |
| nmz787_i | I have their paypal email and their website email | 10:52 |
| nmz787_i | is that illegal to do since they're in China? | 10:52 |
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| nmz787_i | no one? | 11:34 |
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| kanzure | are you asking permission to spam? | 11:34 |
| kanzure | you are a really bad spammer | 11:34 |
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| nmz787_i | well, no, I'm asking if I will get in trouble for doing it somewhere that isn't this country, specifically to china | 11:40 |
| nmz787_i | get in trouble by the U.S. | 11:41 |
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| chris_99 | nmz787_i, i suggest a different tact, APT them and rain down an ungodly firestorm upon them | 11:57 |
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| nmz787_i1 | kinda strange how Rudiger hasn't replied to any of the questions/comments. | 13:03 |
| kanzure | he's one of those people where "interpreting what i say is the wrong thing to do" | 13:04 |
| kanzure | "i only mean what i say as much as it causes you to agree with me, but beyond that i am uninterested in speaking with you" | 13:04 |
| nmz787_i1 | huh | 13:05 |
| nmz787_i1 | so he's not actually interested in helping | 13:05 |
| kanzure | people who use the word "stakeholders" are often like this | 13:05 |
| nmz787_i1 | welp, trade secrets it is then! | 13:05 |
| kanzure | no, he probably does genuinely want to help | 13:05 |
| nmz787_i1 | well, then he's not interested in conversation | 13:06 |
| kanzure | "because someone wrote a poorly reasoned whitepaper, i am going to use trade secrets" is a stupid line of thought and you know it | 13:06 |
| nmz787_i1 | heh | 13:06 |
| nmz787_i1 | but that's pretty much what it comes down to | 13:06 |
| nmz787_i1 | not really their fault, more like, something better doesn't apparently exist | 13:06 |
| kanzure | you have always been very interested in finding reasons to use trade secrets | 13:06 |
| nmz787_i1 | oh yeah | 13:06 |
| kanzure | look, there are people in this world that don't understand all possible licensing schemes, and that's fine | 13:07 |
| nmz787_i1 | ever since I tried to find out how to DIY coca cola | 13:07 |
| nmz787_i1 | shit is just complex | 13:07 |
| kanzure | you shouldn't make it out to be something like "because i don't understand it, everyone else who has incentives to use those licenses is wrong", or "it is wrong for my situation because i don't understand those incentives" | 13:07 |
| nmz787_i1 | I laid out the few concerns/desires I had... and got no response, so these people don't seem to actually be in the real world as far as having some shit on the line to get stolen | 13:07 |
| nmz787_i1 | no I'm talking about myself | 13:07 |
| kanzure | me too | 13:08 |
| nmz787_i1 | not other's | 13:08 |
| kanzure | i am talking about you | 13:08 |
| nmz787_i1 | idk what they would use them for either | 13:08 |
| nmz787_i1 | since I didn't understand what it's point was | 13:08 |
| kanzure | no i mean open source licenses | 13:08 |
| nmz787_i1 | (or the other licenses) | 13:08 |
| kanzure | the ones that you want to use trade secrets instead of | 13:08 |
| nmz787_i1 | from what i've heard none of them mean anything if you can't pay a lawyer to defend it | 13:08 |
| nmz787_i1 | so how is that a realistic option for security? | 13:09 |
| kanzure | many lawyers will work in your defense or offense if you have a clearly legally binding agreement where someone owes you money | 13:09 |
| kanzure | (also it has to be enough money for them to want to bother, not "some guy owes me $200") | 13:09 |
| nmz787_i1 | has anyone done gamification os PSPICE? | 13:09 |
| nmz787_i1 | of* | 13:09 |
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| nmz787_i1 | kanzure: yeah I guess, but I guess my question of what to use is still unanswered | 13:10 |
| kanzure | well, what are you licensing? | 13:11 |
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| nmz787_i1 | biotech instrument design, purification protocols, fabrication techniques... just off the top of my head | 13:11 |
| kanzure | and why do the current set of licenses not serve you ? | 13:12 |
| nmz787_i1 | no one has a good simple explanation of them I guess | 13:13 |
| kanzure | do you consider this simple http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/ | 13:13 |
| nmz787_i1 | well but that is just one of how many options | 13:14 |
| kanzure | niet, answer | 13:14 |
| nmz787_i1 | i'd like a table I guess, or a list of paragraphs on each | 13:14 |
| nmz787_i1 | sure that is simple | 13:15 |
| kanzure | what about https://tldrlegal.com/license/gnu-general-public-license-v2 | 13:16 |
| nmz787_i1 | haha | 13:16 |
| nmz787_i1 | ' Loading ' | 13:16 |
| kanzure | neat, i forgot about the gpl v2 no sublicensing term | 13:16 |
| nmz787_i1 | I guess I'd want something that said 'if used for commercial, must discuss $ fees' | 13:18 |
| kanzure | that's not open source | 13:19 |
| kanzure | i mean, it doesn't meet the open source definition | 13:19 |
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| nmz787_i1 | why not | 13:20 |
| nmz787_i1 | the source would still be open | 13:21 |
| kanzure | it's the definition | 13:21 |
| nmz787_i1 | ? | 13:21 |
| nmz787_i1 | it's a compound word | 13:21 |
| kanzure | learn to history? http://opensource.org/osd | 13:21 |
| nmz787_i1 | oh, well I never said open-source, I said license | 13:21 |
| nmz787_i1 | and I referred to my comments in that Rudiger thread | 13:22 |
| nmz787_i1 | which laid out what I'd expect/hope for (and what I assume others, thinking specifically about professors I've had, might think in terms of) | 13:22 |
| nmz787_i1 | since the example was antibiotic discovery | 13:23 |
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| nmz787_i1 | kanzure: eff says calling it 'free' instead of open-source is better | 13:23 |
| kanzure | haha i bow to your increidbly nuanced understanding of this topic | 13:24 |
| kanzure | *incredibly | 13:24 |
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| nmz787_i1 | ? | 13:26 |
| nmz787_i1 | i never said or implied i had a nuanced understanding | 13:26 |
| nmz787_i1 | i just know English | 13:26 |
| kanzure | i strongly doubt that the electronic frontier foundation is telling you to call commercial licensing "free/libre", that's bullshit | 13:26 |
| thundara | kanzure: Isn't that shared source? | 13:26 |
| kanzure | thundara: gpl? | 13:26 |
| nmz787_i1 | it's a compound word, that's how people will interpret it | 13:26 |
| thundara | Open source, but non free ($) deployment | 13:26 |
| thundara | 13:20:46 < nmz787_i1> I guess I'd want something that said 'if used for commercial, must discuss $ fees' | 13:26 |
| kanzure | dsource can be included in a license, but that doesn't make the license an open source license | 13:27 |
| nmz787_i1 | https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-software-for-freedom.html | 13:27 |
| thundara | Yeah, exactly | 13:27 |
| kanzure | *source availability can be a term of the licensing agreement, but that does not means the license meets the open source definition | 13:27 |
| kanzure | i can understand why people have a negative opinion of open source if they think it just means source availability | 13:28 |
| kanzure | but that's basically the same thing as "people don't read" | 13:28 |
| nmz787_i1 | " However, the obvious meaning for the expression “open source software” is “You can look at the source code.” This is a much weaker criterion than free software" | 13:28 |
| thundara | What are the other conditions? Free to deploy, free to see history of? | 13:28 |
| kanzure | iirc history is not a term i have seen | 13:29 |
| kanzure | ParahSailin: organ perfusion containerization startup wont fly for various reasons | 13:30 |
| kanzure | ParahSailin: but i bet you could raise a few mil on doing "dashboards for organ perfusion/containing machines" | 13:30 |
| nmz787_i1 | thundara: so you're suggesting I'd be more interested in shared-source licenses? | 13:31 |
| kanzure | i still don't understand why you're against open source licenses | 13:31 |
| kanzure | *against using | 13:31 |
| kanzure | *against you using | 13:31 |
| nmz787_i1 | because I want paid | 13:32 |
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| kanzure | why ? | 13:32 |
| nmz787_i1 | i could be fucking off instead of working... but I choose to work because I think it will enhance my life, potentially significantly | 13:33 |
| kanzure | using an open source license doesn't mean you are giving up income... geeze. | 13:33 |
| kanzure | or that you will be incapable of making revenue | 13:34 |
| AlterSid | indeed, you can sell your "open sourced" product.. that is a major business model in the tech world today | 13:34 |
| kanzure | certainly | 13:34 |
| nmz787_i1 | i'm not worried about selling it, I'm worried about someone else, who likely has millions more in research and dev funding | 13:36 |
| AlterSid | that is an argument that comes again and again, "what if this big company just sucks the life out of my product".. well, the thing is you'll be fine, pick a good license, and you'll make the world a better place | 13:37 |
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| kanzure | oh right, the other common response is "dude look at how much fucking money they just spent validating your stupid market etc" | 13:38 |
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| nmz787_i1 | AlterSid: the whole point of this convo is that all this is hard to read, there isn't apparently a single wiki page somewhere with solid concise overview of each | 13:41 |
| nmz787_i1 | the tldrlegal.com interface seems nice | 13:41 |
| AlterSid | yep, I think it is a good one | 13:42 |
| nmz787_i1 | but even now typing in shared-source doesn't immediately help | 13:42 |
| nmz787_i1 | there doesn't seem to be a 'compare the specs of these licenses' widget | 13:43 |
| kanzure | what? that's practically a wikipedia page | 13:43 |
| kanzure | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_free_and_open-source_software_licenses | 13:43 |
| nmz787_i1 | oh, and apparently some results are only placeholders https://tldrlegal.com/license/microsoft-shared-source-community-license-(ms-cl) | 13:43 |
| kanzure | oh weird why did gpl3 add sublicensing | 13:44 |
| nmz787_i1 | 'Commercial use' yes/no isn't too helpful though | 13:44 |
| kanzure | the ones that say 'no' are not good licenses | 13:44 |
| nmz787_i1 | unless a 'no' means you have to renegotiate for a different license | 13:44 |
| kanzure | you can always always renegotiate with the owner | 13:45 |
| nmz787_i1 | none of the licenses there say no for commercial use | 13:45 |
| kanzure | the owner can also always license his shit using multiple licenses | 13:45 |
| kanzure | yes, because open source definition says it must explicitly allow commercial use, and that page is a comparison of said licenses | 13:45 |
| nmz787_i1 | as established by a non-legally-binding Open Source Initiative | 13:46 |
| nmz787_i1 | i mean, they don't have a trademark | 13:46 |
| AlterSid | btw, haven't followed the discussion, but is it a library that you want to develop or an integrated solution? | 13:46 |
| nmz787_i1 | so open-source is still a compound English word to me | 13:46 |
| kanzure | actually OSI does have a fucking trademark and that's why they were bullying the open source hardware people | 13:46 |
| nmz787_i1 | the eff page said they didn't pursue a trademark | 13:46 |
| kanzure | http://opensource.org/trademark | 13:46 |
| nmz787_i1 | hah | 13:47 |
| nmz787_i1 | the use of the term “Open Source” is used solely in reference to software distributed under OSI Approved | 13:47 |
| nmz787_i1 | Licenses. | 13:47 |
| nmz787_i1 | i said open-source | 13:47 |
| nmz787_i1 | so it doesn't apply ;P | 13:47 |
| kanzure | AlterSid: just... stuff. | 13:48 |
| nmz787_i1 | and since it is related to software, it seems it wouldn't apply either | 13:48 |
| AlterSid | mmh | 13:48 |
| nmz787_i1 | yup nowhere in that doc to they mention open-source | 13:48 |
| kanzure | they have at least a trademark | 13:49 |
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| nmz787_i1 | haha the other is a bio application http://tmsearch.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=4803:gyw9yw.5.14 | 13:50 |
| nmz787_i1 | "Whey protein for use as an emulsifier or binding agent in food" | 13:51 |
| nmz787_i1 | mmm, gotta get me some open source | 13:51 |
| nmz787_i1 | i'd like some open source cheese on my burger, please | 13:51 |
| nmz787_i1 | wait | 13:52 |
| nmz787_i1 | both listings are for the milk stuff | 13:52 |
| nmz787_i1 | oh, nvm multiple pages unsorted | 13:53 |
| nmz787_i1 | hmm, I still don't see anything about software | 13:54 |
| nmz787_i1 | or OSI | 13:54 |
| nmz787_i1 | http://tmsearch.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=toc&state=4803%3Agyw9yw.1.1&p_search=searchss&p_L=50&BackReference=&p_plural=yes&p_s_PARA1=live&p_tagrepl~%3A=PARA1%24LD&expr=PARA1+AND+PARA2&p_s_PARA2=open+source&p_tagrepl~%3A=PARA2%24COMB&p_op_ALL=ADJ&a_default=search&a_search=Submit+Query&a_search=Submit+Query | 13:54 |
| nmz787_i1 | kanzure: seems OSI only has trademarks on their named stuff "OSI, Open Source Initiative, and OSI logo ("OSI Logo"), either separately or in combination, are hereinafter referred to as "OSI Trademarks" and are trademarks of the Open Source Initiative" | 13:55 |
| nmz787_i1 | "The OSI logo is a trademark of Open Source Initiative. In order to protect and grow the OSI brand, we have a distinguishable logo that can be used to mark software licensed under an OSI Approved License." | 13:56 |
| ParahSailin | http://venturefans.org/vbwiki/File:OSI.gif | 13:57 |
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| kanzure | great now i'm trying to think of venture quotes | 14:01 |
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| kanzure | "crap who am i kidding, my code is going down the toilet faster than an unwanted pregnancy on prom night" | 14:02 |
| kanzure | there we go | 14:02 |
| nmz787_i | family guy had a musical break featuring something like that | 14:07 |
| nmz787_i | 'back alley dumpster baby' i think | 14:08 |
| kanzure | prom night dumpster baby | 14:08 |
| kanzure | i need a lobotomy | 14:08 |
| AlterSid | kanzure: business idea, scrape this: http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/keywords/venture.html , and create "one page per quote" with an inspirational picture/portrait as background.. | 14:10 |
| AlterSid | kind of like this http://stickywallpapers.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/motivational-quotes.jpg | 14:10 |
| kanzure | are you the spammer i keep banning | 14:11 |
| kanzure | oh right, no | 14:12 |
| AlterSid | kinda new here, so I doubt it.. did I make a fauxpas? or break netiquette? | 14:14 |
| kanzure | don't worry about it | 14:15 |
| kanzure | it's nothing | 14:15 |
| thundara | 13:33:07 < nmz787_i1> thundara: so you're suggesting I'd be more interested in shared-source licenses? | 14:24 |
| thundara | I will respond to this tomorrow, remind me | 14:24 |
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| kanzure | http://www.openoptogenetics.org/index.php?title=DLP_Projection | 17:29 |
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| kanzure | i wonder how much more effective laser reflection of necks or mouths would be at speech recognition over plain audio | 20:39 |
| kanzure | or, what the theoretical maximum improvement is | 20:41 |
| kanzure | http://vocalzoom.weebly.com/uploads/8/2/1/0/8210683/paper_robust_speech_recognition_using_an_auxiliary_laser-doppler_vibrometer_sensor.pdf | 20:45 |
| kanzure | that does not look like much to me | 20:45 |
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| juri_ | http://hackaday.io/project/2434-Microwave-Assisted-Aluminium-Printing | 21:39 |
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| kanzure | old, i know a dude who's been working on that in dc since forever | 21:41 |
| juri_ | you mean, me? | 21:52 |
| juri_ | :P | 21:52 |
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| kanzure | oh, whatever | 22:09 |
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