| --- Log opened Tue Oct 14 00:00:10 2014 | ||
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| jrayhawk_ | their video documentaries are usually fun, if a bit self-aggrandizing | 01:39 |
|---|---|---|
| jrayhawk_ | I watched the Liberia one yesterday. | 01:40 |
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| jrayhawk_ | .title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FG1LGKieTxY | 01:49 |
| yoleaux | Hazmat Highway to Hell with High Pressure Gas Cylinders (No Music) - YouTube | 01:49 |
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| ebowden | paperbot: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23157625 | 04:10 |
| ebowden | paperbot: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21320726 | 04:12 |
| paperbot | http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1016%2Fj.psychres.2011.01.011 | 04:12 |
| ebowden | \:D/ | 04:13 |
| ebowden | paperbot: http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayAbstract?fromPage=online&aid=8490417 | 04:15 |
| paperbot | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/Modulation%20of%20BDNF%20expression%20by%20repeated%20treatment%20with%20the%20novel%20antipsychotic%20lurasidone%20under%20basal%20condition%20and%20in%20response%20to%20acute%20stress.pdf | 04:16 |
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| ebowden | paperbot: http://www.epda.eu.com/en/research-papers/2012/prd/02-01-prelatdisord-6/ | 04:46 |
| ebowden | paperbot: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21924942 | 04:47 |
| paperbot | http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1016%2Fj.parkreldis.2011.09.002 | 04:48 |
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| ebowden | paperbot: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11031089 | 04:50 |
| paperbot | http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1006%2Fexnr.2000.7483 | 04:50 |
| ebowden | paperbot: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19847468 | 04:53 |
| paperbot | http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1007%2Fs00415-009-5357-2 | 04:53 |
| ebowden | \:D/ | 04:53 |
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| ebowden | paperbot: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21349227 | 04:55 |
| paperbot | http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1017%2FS1461145711000150 | 04:55 |
| ebowden | \:D/ | 04:56 |
| ebowden | Oh. | 04:56 |
| ebowden | Didn't work this time. | 04:56 |
| ebowden | paperbot: http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v439/n7079/full/nature04474.html | 05:01 |
| paperbot | http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1038%2Fnature04474 | 05:01 |
| ebowden | \:D/ | 05:02 |
| ebowden | paperbot: http://www.nature.com/nrd/journal/v12/n7/full/nrd4024.html | 05:02 |
| paperbot | http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1038%2Fnrd4024 | 05:02 |
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| ebowden | paperbot: http://www.discoverymedicine.com/Jane-M-Rodgers/2013/08/01/strategies-for-protecting-oligodendrocytes-and-enhancing-remyelination-in-multiple-sclerosis/ | 05:08 |
| paperbot | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/728cc919addc5cd553c2e65d6af1fd12.txt | 05:09 |
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| Connie1989 | paperbot: http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayAbstract?fromPage=online&aid=4388716&fileId=S0025315400046324 | 06:35 |
| paperbot | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/91c60fb7a55dea73d47fc4cdca7c2aaa.txt | 06:36 |
| Connie1989 | Rats, thanks anyway Paperbot | 06:37 |
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| kanzure_ | https://www.nccgroup.com/en/blog/2014/10/analysis-of-the-linux-backdoor-used-in-freenode-irc-network-compromise/ | 08:08 |
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| kanzure_ | .title https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8452727 | 08:21 |
| yoleaux | iSIGHT discovers vulnerability used in Russian cyber-espionage campaign | Hacker News | 08:21 |
| kanzure_ | "A vulnerability exists in INF processing and untrusted, 3rd party INF files can be included by PowerPoint files. An exposed dangerous method vulnerability exists in the OLE package manager in Microsoft Windows and Server (Vista SP2 to Windows 8.1, Windows Server versions 2008 and 2012). When exploited, the vulnerability allows an attacker to remotely execute arbitrary code. The vulnerability exists because Windows allows the OLE packager ... | 08:21 |
| kanzure_ | ... (packager .dll) to download and execute INF files. In the case of the observed exploit, specifically when handling Microsoft PowerPoint files, the packagers allows a Package OLE object to reference arbitrary external files, such as INF files, from untrusted sources. This will cause the referenced files to be downloaded in the case of INF files, to be executed with specific commands. An attacker can exploit this vulnerability to execute ... | 08:21 |
| kanzure_ | ... arbitrary code but will need a specifically crafted file and use social engineering methods (observed in this campaign) to convince a user to open it." | 08:22 |
| kanzure_ | "So, it's a remote exploit, but requires the user to open a document." blah | 08:23 |
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| JayDugger | Hmmm... | 09:20 |
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| fenn | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mu-metal ("zero gauss" could be a band name, or an anime, or a physics romance novel) | 09:42 |
| yoleaux | 24 Aug 2014 05:44Z <kanzure> fenn: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Habakkuk | 09:42 |
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| fenn | yes i made some "pykrete" once and it is indeed tough stuff | 09:43 |
| fenn | it seems problematic to force "conscientious objectors" to build military equipment | 09:44 |
| fenn | does it really matter who pushes the button | 09:45 |
| fenn | (habakkuk was a prototype battleship built by conscientious objectors) | 09:50 |
| kanzure | fenn: notmuch-style bookmark tool https://github.com/davidlazar/jotmuch | 09:55 |
| fenn | cool. i wonder why it needs jinja | 10:01 |
| fenn | and webkit | 10:01 |
| kanzure | webkit is for snapshots. obviously a bad idea. | 10:02 |
| kanzure | fenn: some autopilot drone stuff, https://github.com/PX4/Firmware https://pixhawk.org/start http://www.linuxfoundation.org/news-media/announcements/2014/10/linux-foundation-and-leading-technology-companies-launch-open | 10:02 |
| kanzure | erm and https://www.dronecode.org/ | 10:02 |
| kanzure | amusing mistakes in coordinates http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Axis_Order_Confusion | 10:03 |
| kanzure | incentives for information leakers https://github.com/unsystem/paypub | 10:05 |
| kanzure | wei dai talking about cryptography and singularity stuff http://extropians.weidai.com/extropians.3Q97/4356.html | 10:05 |
| kanzure | i dunno if you saw the log for 2014-10-09 but it turns out that wei dai's motivations were basically "i read some vernor vinge science fiction and then i decided to write an open source cryptography library" which is an awesome motivation. | 10:06 |
| fenn | yes i read the log and also a few years ago i had read that extropians post | 10:07 |
| kanzure | so i guess he writes all of his own cryptography software out of paranoia? | 10:08 |
| fenn | doesn't everyone? | 10:08 |
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| fenn | i can't think of many instances in which i would want a png thumbnail of a webpage | 10:09 |
| fenn | all my shit is just gray on gray anyway | 10:09 |
| kanzure | i haven't been using that archiving feature | 10:10 |
| kanzure | i would rather route everything through squid | 10:10 |
| fenn | to do what | 10:10 |
| kanzure | for archiving page content | 10:10 |
| kanzure | instead of spinning up an extra webkit instance | 10:10 |
| fenn | the png is supposed to remind you what the page is, since presumably you were too lazy to tag it | 10:11 |
| fenn | it's not a copy of the page content | 10:11 |
| kanzure | so far tagging has not been a terrible burden for me | 10:11 |
| kanzure | but this might be because i have been tagging every conversation i have for the past five years anyway | 10:11 |
| fenn | right, i'm guessing anyone using this program is looking for a way to do tagged bookmarks | 10:11 |
| kanzure | i would sure hope so. | 10:11 |
| fenn | i've been meaning to set up squid for page archiving and CSS murdering for since forever | 10:12 |
| kanzure | "the wayback machine will do it for me, right? right??" | 10:13 |
| kanzure | btw http://web.archive.org/save/url is a thing they added | 10:13 |
| fenn | someone did a 'blurryweb' prank which made all images blurry.. i figured it would be easy to use that code for making all line drawing images white on black | 10:13 |
| kanzure | mitmproxy/libmproxy has an upsidedownternet example in their repo | 10:14 |
| fenn | i was adding some stuff to archive earlier today.. you can just visit the url as if it were in archive already.. if it's not, the url will be saved | 10:14 |
| fenn | it doesnt work on directories | 10:14 |
| fenn | speaking of archives, how many copies of the mailing list are in http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/extropians/ ? | 10:16 |
| kanzure | at least 3? | 10:16 |
| fenn | the README.txt was not very enlightening | 10:16 |
| kanzure | wei dai's copy has some redactions | 10:16 |
| kanzure | eventually i will have to do a proper diff (after parsing, sigh, because format differences) | 10:16 |
| fenn | is there a program to extract the original messages from whatever html mailing list interface people use? | 10:17 |
| fenn | i seem to run across this problem a lot | 10:17 |
| kanzure | haven't seen one. | 10:17 |
| kanzure | javascript nurbs kernel with unit tests http://verbnurbs.com/ https://github.com/pboyer/verb | 10:20 |
| fenn | today i found an archive of the first mailing list on the internet: http://keithlynch.net/sfl/ (anthropological context http://www.ais.org/~ronda/new.papers/usenet_early_days.txt ) | 10:21 |
| kanzure | isn't that the cryonics person | 10:21 |
| fenn | it bears a striking resemblance to the stuff you find in vernor vinge novels | 10:22 |
| fenn | yes i was wondering if you knew keith | 10:22 |
| kanzure | "let's write emails to ourselves and maybe if they are good enough we will cause the singularity to happen" | 10:22 |
| fenn | i've heard worse plans | 10:22 |
| kanzure | keith lynch must have been pre-meetlog cause he's not mentioned anywhere in it | 10:23 |
| fenn | he also has an archive of cryonet but took it down because people suck | 10:23 |
| fenn | anyway i find it interesting to read early internet and pre-internet stuff | 10:25 |
| kanzure | have you seen the early usenet conspiracy theories about nick szabo? before everyone thought he was satoshi nakamoto? | 10:26 |
| kanzure | http://borg.uu3.net/ldetweil/medusa/medusa.html#hits | 10:26 |
| fenn | theories about him? | 10:27 |
| kanzure | "L.D. believed that "Nick Szabo" (szabo@netcom.com) was a "tentacle" or a front for various cryptoanarchists to post from. L.D. dissects an actual Szabo post here under the S.Boxx pseudonym, but misattributed it to J.Gilmore in a typical mischievous mood. The references to untraceable digital cash are classic cypherpunk. The pornography allusions are rarer but tie in with the T.C.May pornography post above." | 10:27 |
| fenn | isn't he an economics professor who holds regular office hours? | 10:28 |
| kanzure | i believe he's slightly more elusive than that | 10:28 |
| fenn | huh. "In 1995, he proposed a challenge to build a macroscale replicator from Lego robot kits and similar basic parts." | 10:29 |
| fenn | where the hell were all these people when i was a kid | 10:29 |
| kanzure | yes everyone was talking about replicators back then | 10:29 |
| kanzure | some of that is in the extropians archives | 10:30 |
| kanzure | i get the distinct feeling that there's an earlier mailing list from 1985-1990 where vernor vinge, ray kurzweil, nick szabo, hal finney, and others were throwing ideas around. | 10:30 |
| kanzure | because most of them just show up on extropians already knowing each other | 10:30 |
| kanzure | and not having to explain background about what a von neumann probe is, etc. | 10:31 |
| fenn | ping: unknown host gwu.edu | 10:31 |
| fenn | wtf | 10:31 |
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| ParahSailin_ | "i need lots of my own DNA for experiments at school." ; is male | 10:38 |
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| fenn | i bet they knew each other from usenet | 10:39 |
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| kjskjskjs | so apparently energy prices are falling dramatically because of US shale oil and gas? how long will that last? | 10:39 |
| kanzure | what? | 10:40 |
| fenn | until it runs out | 10:40 |
| kjskjskjs | right, but is that 1, 3, 10, 30 years? presumably in 15 years solar will make it irrelevant | 10:40 |
| fenn | i got the impression it was at least 30 | 10:40 |
| kjskjskjs | is anybody doing evolutionary mechanical design yet with FEM for flexible objects? | 10:41 |
| kjskjskjs | (are there capital investments for solar plants that draw on scarce resources? e.g. platinum-iridium crucibles for melting the silicon.) | 10:41 |
| fenn | there's "endless forms" but it sucks and doesn't use FEM.. i've seen some topological optizimation algorithms that do use FEM but aren't evolutionary | 10:41 |
| fenn | based on level sets | 10:42 |
| ParahSailin_ | dont they use quartz crucibles for si | 10:42 |
| fenn | sounds like it would dissolve instantly | 10:42 |
| fenn | there are thin film solar panel manufacturing processes that use only mild vacuum and microwave radiation | 10:44 |
| fenn | i'm not sure what the current commodity technology is | 10:44 |
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| fenn | most topology optimization is aimed at maximizing stiffness to mass ratio, not minimizing fatigue or whatever it is you're after | 10:48 |
| kanzure | fenn: http://pastebin.com/ixx2xRRB | 10:49 |
| fenn | who knew "thimerosal" was actually "thiomersal" | 10:51 |
| fenn | i dont get why they would make the name intentionally confusing | 10:52 |
| kanzure | also did i show you https://github.com/dcowden/cadquery/blob/master/examples/FreeCAD/Ex023_Parametric_Enclosure.py and http://verbnurbs.com/ | 10:53 |
| fenn | is there an image of that script's output? i'm not set up to run it | 10:55 |
| kanzure | well, try: | 10:55 |
| kanzure | http://parametricparts.com/parts/832hzct6/ | 10:55 |
| kanzure | and then click 'modelscript' (which is really just python + cadquery) | 10:56 |
| kanzure | 'fabberking' hm | 10:56 |
| kanzure | oh it's a person | 10:56 |
| kanzure | hole = Workplane("XY").center(x_now, y_now).circle(d_list[x + y * x_num_of_holes.value] / 2).extrude(thickness.value) | 10:56 |
| fenn | dammit everything is javascript these days | 10:57 |
| kanzure | anyway i have suddenly remembered that i did show this to you, when i was complaining about opencascade tolerances | 10:57 |
| kanzure | well, a few months ago i began working on lolcad again | 10:57 |
| kanzure | but then i stopped when i saw verbnurbs | 10:57 |
| kanzure | there is a great conflict in my head going on for whether or not i should port verbnurbs into lolcad (python) or if i hsould just contribute to that javascript library | 10:57 |
| fenn | (i was grumbling about there not being any .png output, not about verbnurbs) | 10:58 |
| kanzure | i am sure you would eventually get around to complaining about verbnurbs | 10:58 |
| fenn | anyway i get the idea | 10:58 |
| kjskjskjs | quartz crucibles wouldn't run into scarce resources | 10:59 |
| kjskjskjs | I don't actually know | 11:00 |
| kjskjskjs | (what crucibles/furnace materials/etc. are used) | 11:00 |
| kjskjskjs | thin-film processes are uniformly dependent on scarce resources of indium and gallium | 11:00 |
| kjskjskjs | current commodity technology is polycrystalline silicon | 11:00 |
| kjskjskjs | I presumably already linked to https://github.com/kragen/stl3dpy here already, no? but all I've designed with it so far is a stochastic surface and some shower rings | 11:02 |
| kjskjskjs | and it needs some work before it reaches reach "Workplane("XY").center(x_now, y_now).circle(d_list[x + y * x_num_of_holes.value] / 2).extrude(thickness.value)" | 11:02 |
| ParahSailin_ | thio mer salicylate | 11:02 |
| kanzure | why are you doing an stl library? | 11:03 |
| kanzure | there are many many stl libraries.. | 11:03 |
| kanzure | some with possibly usable apis too | 11:03 |
| kjskjskjs | because the STL part took me like half an hour to write | 11:04 |
| kjskjskjs | that's not enough time to evaluate the APIs of two or three libraries | 11:04 |
| kanzure | this does not count as one of the usable ones, but... https://github.com/diN0bot/miller/blob/master/lib/cad.py | 11:04 |
| kanzure | (gershenfeld's) | 11:04 |
| kjskjskjs | a better question is "why are you doing your own geometry?" | 11:05 |
| kjskjskjs | which I don't have a great excuse for | 11:05 |
| kanzure | "fuck you" is an acceptable excuse, in here | 11:06 |
| kjskjskjs | are parametricparts and verbnurbs free software? | 11:06 |
| kanzure | parametricparts is a website that uses cadquery under the hood "somewhere" | 11:06 |
| kanzure | both cadquery and verbnurbs are open-source | 11:06 |
| fenn | heh dinobot was my roomate for a couple months | 11:07 |
| kanzure | however, cadquery requires freecad which requires opencascade http://diyhpl.us/wiki/cad/opencascade | 11:07 |
| kanzure | fenn you had like 30 not-always-the-same-roommates for more than a year, i don't think that should be surprising any more | 11:07 |
| kjskjskjs | what does cadquery do? | 11:08 |
| fenn | well i was in pod A and she was in pod B | 11:08 |
| kanzure | cadquery is just a python wrapper on top of freecad's api | 11:08 |
| kjskjskjs | what does freecad's api do? | 11:08 |
| kanzure | it makes it look less awful and does chaining | 11:08 |
| kanzure | freecad's api is a wrapper around opencascade | 11:08 |
| kjskjskjs | that explains the name | 11:08 |
| kjskjskjs | what does opencascade do? | 11:08 |
| fenn | crashes | 11:08 |
| kjskjskjs | ha | 11:08 |
| kjskjskjs | I mean, does it do 3D geometry, or file formats, or both, or what? | 11:09 |
| kanzure | everything, man | 11:09 |
| fenn | both and also 9000 other things | 11:09 |
| fenn | just not very reliably | 11:09 |
| kanzure | here are some of the components: http://diyhpl.us/wiki/cad/opencascade/#packages | 11:09 |
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| kjskjskjs | openscad is instead built around some other 3D library | 11:10 |
| kanzure | cgal/opencsg | 11:11 |
| kanzure | unfortunately stl is extremely memory hungry | 11:11 |
| kjskjskjs | yeah | 11:11 |
| kjskjskjs | what do you mean, stl is memory hungry? | 11:11 |
| kjskjskjs | because you have to represent curved surfaces as a large number of triangles? | 11:11 |
| kanzure | nurbs can represent a perfect sphere in like <20 bytes but stl requires some sort of impossibly large number of bytes | 11:12 |
| kjskjskjs | (I mean, stl is a file format, not a library) | 11:12 |
| kjskjskjs | nurbs can represent a perfect sphere? that's news to me | 11:12 |
| kjskjskjs | stl can't represent a perfect sphere | 11:12 |
| fenn | nurbs can represent a perfect sphere within floating point error | 11:12 |
| kanzure | ermm let me clarify, i believe nurbs can represent a perfect half-sphere only? and then you have to merge the two surfaces. | 11:12 |
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| kanzure | oh | 11:13 |
| kanzure | what if you just store it with a pi symbol though? | 11:13 |
| fenn | hemisphere.. whatever | 11:13 |
| fenn | the spline has a set of float coefficients. not sure how to store a pi symbol in that data structure | 11:14 |
| fenn | pi is "irrational" :P | 11:15 |
| kanzure | you could imagine a data structure that stores equations instead of floats | 11:16 |
| fenn | yes, f-cad | 11:16 |
| kanzure | and then evaluate the equation to whatever decimal you want | 11:16 |
| fenn | erm, f-rep | 11:16 |
| kanzure | you could also do this with stl, but it wouldn't help with the memory issues | 11:16 |
| fenn | not exactly, because stl isn't parametric | 11:16 |
| fenn | you can generate some stl geometry but later on not be able to derive the original parameters | 11:17 |
| fenn | blah why am i talking about this | 11:17 |
| kjskjskjs | I don't think you can representa perfect half-sphere with a single nurbs patch | 11:18 |
| archels_ | you could store a sphere in a single degenerate NURBS, I think | 11:18 |
| kjskjskjs | within floating-point error | 11:18 |
| kjskjskjs | but I've never written anything that uses NURBS so I probably should be quiet | 11:19 |
| kjskjskjs | I did write a thing that uses interval arithmetic though, which turned out interesting | 11:19 |
| kjskjskjs | http://canonical.org/~kragen/sw/aspmisc/intervalgraph.html | 11:20 |
| kjskjskjs | you can represent a perfect sphere very easily as an implicit surface | 11:20 |
| archels_ | if you want to go all exact/algebraic number representation on us, that's a different matter | 11:20 |
| kanzure | fenn: how about something different? https://github.com/kanzure/bitcoin-incentives/blob/master/bitcoin-incentives.tex | 11:20 |
| kjskjskjs | interval arithmetic seems like a promising approach for generating 3D forms that I can later 3D-print | 11:21 |
| fenn | i think i should sleep | 11:21 |
| fenn | nice to see you all again | 11:22 |
| kanzure | hmph | 11:24 |
| kjskjskjs | kanzure: why do miners have an incentive to remove the available transaction fees other miners could benefit from? | 11:29 |
| kjskjskjs | because the other miners might use those fees to buy more Bitcoin ASICs and thus increase the difficulty? I'm not sure that makes sense | 11:30 |
| kanzure | go on | 11:30 |
| kjskjskjs | no, that's a complete question | 11:31 |
| kanzure | even in the absence of that "because other miners might use those transaction fees to..." there's just the "more money yo" aspect. | 11:31 |
| kjskjskjs | no, that's the other option | 11:31 |
| kjskjskjs | I mean, the othe rincentive | 11:31 |
| kanzure | i should number/name these damn it | 11:31 |
| kjskjskjs | you're saying that, separate from "more money yo", miners have an incentive to remove available transaction fees other miners could benefit from | 11:31 |
| kjskjskjs | but why? | 11:31 |
| kjskjskjs | because they're mean people who want to hurt others? | 11:32 |
| kanzure | oh interesting, i didn't elaborate in the document huh | 11:32 |
| kanzure | andytoshi: ping | 11:32 |
| kjskjskjs | https://gist.github.com/kragen/bec6fc042c651d550333 is an edit of your document for some typographic stuff | 11:32 |
| kjskjskjs | I was trying to fork it but that never worked | 11:32 |
| kjskjskjs | sorry | 11:33 |
| kanzure | O_o well okay. i will patch soon. | 11:33 |
| kanzure | so, you don't like the "might use those fees to buy more Bitcoin ASICs and thus increase the difficulty" reasoning? | 11:34 |
| kjskjskjs | I think it might work but needs to be argued at more length | 11:34 |
| kjskjskjs | because it's not obvious that it works | 11:34 |
| kjskjskjs | to me anyway | 11:34 |
| kanzure | miners that have reserve unactivated hashing power could possibly benefit from anyone activating more mining power, to the extent that it pushes out smaller miners, i suppose. | 11:35 |
| kanzure | oh okay. i see. | 11:35 |
| kjskjskjs | I mean, maybe that applies equally well if the miner gets the fees themself and uses it to buy more Bitcoin ASICs | 11:35 |
| kjskjskjs | but I guess that just diminishes their gain rather than reversing it | 11:35 |
| kjskjskjs | but I think if you're explicitly calling out hte red-queen nature of mining you need to be expliciter | 11:35 |
| kanzure | fair enough, whole point of the document is to be explicit anyway | 11:36 |
| kanzure | kjskjskjs: one of the struggles at the moment is to get a good model of bitcoin to work | 11:38 |
| kanzure | it is a highly subtle set of incentives and constraints that, when modified without due attention to subtleties, causes disaster | 11:39 |
| andytoshi | kanzure: pong | 11:47 |
| andytoshi | what's up? | 11:47 |
| kjskjskjs | for example: can there be multiple blockchain systems in the world? | 11:50 |
| kjskjskjs | I mean, the thing that underpins the blockchain is that no potential participant has enough compute power to 51% it | 11:51 |
| kjskjskjs | But that doesn't apply to new blockchain-based systems | 11:51 |
| kjskjskjs | since almost any mining pool in Bitcoin will be larger than they are | 11:52 |
| andytoshi | the difficulty is actually not relevant, that just controls the timing | 11:52 |
| andytoshi | regardless of diffchanges, the greater a proportion a miner has of the available hashpower, the greater his rewards | 11:52 |
| kjskjskjs | or, now that those are ASIC-based, any mining pool in some second-tier coin | 11:52 |
| andytoshi | so the miner can either increase his absolute hashpower or decrease that of others | 11:52 |
| kjskjskjs | andytoshi: true | 11:52 |
| kjskjskjs | although that's not a very strong incentive to decrease that of others | 11:53 |
| kjskjskjs | also: does Bitcoin exacerbate Piketty's r>g problem? | 11:53 |
| andytoshi | i don't recall what that is, and iirc i never did figure it out | 11:54 |
| andytoshi | when i last looked at it | 11:54 |
| andytoshi | i've gotta go tho, sorry | 11:54 |
| kjskjskjs | chau | 11:54 |
| kjskjskjs | Piketty claims that inequality is increasing because the rate of return on capital (r) is greater than the growth rate of the economy (g) | 11:54 |
| andytoshi | oh that's right | 11:55 |
| andytoshi | yup, never figured it out :) | 11:55 |
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| kanzure | kjskjskjs: genehacker may be able to provide links or thoughts about your mechanical design issues | 11:56 |
| kjskjskjs | hi genehacker | 11:56 |
| genehacker | mechanical design issues of? | 11:56 |
| kjskjskjs | I don't know if my ideas are productive or interesting, but here they are | 11:56 |
| kjskjskjs | sort of a generalizaiotn of the geartrain thing | 11:57 |
| kjskjskjs | it seems like if you can express the constraints and metric of goodness of a mechanical part in automatically evaluable terms, you ought to be able to use general search procedures to design the part | 11:58 |
| genehacker | by general search you mean querying a big database? | 11:58 |
| kjskjskjs | no | 11:58 |
| kjskjskjs | like A* search, or hill-climbing, or simulated annealing, or genetic algorithms | 11:59 |
| kjskjskjs | let me be more specific | 11:59 |
| genehacker | yes, and that's exactly what we do | 11:59 |
| kjskjskjs | oh really? where? | 11:59 |
| genehacker | you talking about campbell's geartrain thing right? | 11:59 |
| kanzure | he doesn't know about campbell | 12:00 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/campbell/ | 12:00 |
| genehacker | what geartrain thing are you talking about? | 12:00 |
| genehacker | Shea's work? | 12:00 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/Automated%20Synthesis%20and%20Optimization%20of%20Gear%20Train%20Topologies%20-%20Albert%20Swantner%20-%202009.pdf | 12:00 |
| kanzure | (just dropping that for kjskjskjs dunno if he means shea or not) | 12:00 |
| kjskjskjs | yeah, that's the one I meant | 12:00 |
| kjskjskjs | as an example, I want to screw a thing to the wall to hang a bike from | 12:01 |
| kjskjskjs | it needs to have a hole in it of suchand such diameter at least 70cm from the wall, support 40kg of weight at that hole, be held to the wall with holes of such and such diameter | 12:02 |
| kjskjskjs | handle, say, 10kg of side-loading in any direction | 12:02 |
| genehacker | that sounds like a job for topology optimization | 12:02 |
| kjskjskjs | and handle shocks | 12:03 |
| kjskjskjs | and not obstruct hte space below the hole | 12:03 |
| kjskjskjs | and designs that use less material and a minimum number of holes to hold to the wall are better | 12:03 |
| kjskjskjs | so evaluating a design to see whether it meets the constraint requires FEM analysis (right?) | 12:03 |
| genehacker | yes | 12:04 |
| kjskjskjs | mechanical engineers who do FEM analysis still have to look over the mesh by hand to guess whether it will simulate the part adequately (they tell me) | 12:04 |
| genehacker | except for the hold the thing to the wall part, that's a topology optimization problem | 12:04 |
| kanzure | campbell has implemented "topology optimization plus FEM analysis for each generated design" many many times over | 12:05 |
| kjskjskjs | cool | 12:05 |
| kjskjskjs | did htey solve the "error bars on the FEM mesh used" problem adequately? | 12:05 |
| kjskjskjs | because obviously having a manual step in the middle is no good | 12:05 |
| genehacker | well you'll want to do manual verification of what you've gotten out and that's not to hard to do | 12:06 |
| kanzure | error bars almost don't matter compared to the wildly different results each design gives you (usually campbell is looking at wildly different designs, not just "optimize the resistance of a resistor") | 12:06 |
| kjskjskjs | well, if you make your mesh too coarse, you'll get wildly different results | 12:07 |
| kjskjskjs | the question is how to tell when you've made the mesh too coarse | 12:07 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/campbell/The%20A-Design%20approach%20to%20managing%20automated%20design%20synthesis.pdf | 12:07 |
| kjskjskjs | I'll read through the campbell papers :) | 12:07 |
| kanzure | that last one is perhaps most relevant | 12:08 |
| kjskjskjs | is there other stuff I should read too to find out who's doing this? | 12:08 |
| kjskjskjs | I also want to do this for FDM slice planning | 12:08 |
| kjskjskjs | because existing slicers have a whole lot of ad-hoc special cases in them | 12:08 |
| genehacker | you want to do topology optimization | 12:09 |
| kjskjskjs | when in theory all you need is a search procedure that starts with a crude approximation of your part and a simulation of the deposition process (cooling of the plastic, etc.) | 12:09 |
| kanzure | oh why are you simulating deposition? | 12:09 |
| genehacker | people are doing it | 12:09 |
| kjskjskjs | well, I'm not happy with existing slicers | 12:09 |
| kjskjskjs | they do a terrible job in occasoinal cases and a bad job most of the time | 12:10 |
| kanzure | oh, you mean the nozzle is your part you are optimizing | 12:10 |
| kjskjskjs | no | 12:10 |
| kjskjskjs | optimizing the G-code that movez the nozzle | 12:10 |
| kjskjskjs | if we were to go way out there we could integrate the mechanical design search with the G-code design in order to find the part that solves the problem in the minimal amount of printing time without doing things that are hard for the printer | 12:10 |
| genehacker | nah, there's a pretty good simulator out there | 12:11 |
| kjskjskjs | like overhangs, horizontal surfaces, that kind of thing | 12:11 |
| kjskjskjs | there is? | 12:11 |
| genehacker | it just isn't out yet | 12:11 |
| genehacker | some people at parc have a really cool one | 12:11 |
| kjskjskjs | does it have a name? | 12:11 |
| genehacker | it also finds the best orientation to build something, but it doesn't optimize slicing | 12:12 |
| genehacker | ufab and unfortunately that won't get you anywhere | 12:12 |
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| kjskjskjs | what does it optimize othe rthan orientation if not slicing? | 12:15 |
| kjskjskjs | maybe if I ask people who work at parc about ufab then they can send me a video or arrange a demo or something | 12:15 |
| genehacker | they assume 1 slicing algorithm | 12:18 |
| genehacker | and figure out the best way to make something so that all features come out | 12:19 |
| kjskjskjs | what are the variants they search, other than different orientations? | 12:21 |
| genehacker | I think just orientations | 12:23 |
| kjskjskjs | ah | 12:23 |
| kjskjskjs | that's valuable but it's not a very multidimensional search space :) | 12:23 |
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| Lemminkainen | paperbot http://www.sciencemag.org/content/346/6205/89.short | 13:05 |
| paperbot | http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1126%2Fscience.1252945 | 13:05 |
| Lemminkainen | paperbot http://www.nature.com/ncomms/2014/140902/ncomms5792/full/ncomms5792.html | 13:07 |
| paperbot | http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1038%2Fncomms5792 | 13:07 |
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| Lemminkainen | paperbot http://www.nature.com/ncomms/2014/141014/ncomms6145/full/ncomms6145.html | 13:07 |
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| paperbot | http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1038%2Fncomms6145 | 13:08 |
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| kanzure | "In the US, if you are a professional and you offer your services for free, there could be a tax liability past a certain amount of time." | 13:15 |
| heath | http://formatjs.io "Internationalize your web apps on the client & server." | 13:16 |
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| delinquentme | Ok so I want to sample sweat. | 13:18 |
| yoleaux | 12 Oct 2014 20:06Z <nmz787_> delinquentme: you rang? (it's been a few days | 13:18 |
| * delinquentme licks nmz787's arm | 13:18 | |
| delinquentme | you taste deficient. | 13:19 |
| delinquentme | I need suggestions on how to sample a few electrolytes at the skins surface | 13:19 |
| delinquentme | and not like a single sampling but more towards continuous | 13:20 |
| Lemminkainen | how'd your last project turn out, delinquentme ? | 13:20 |
| Lemminkainen | got any porkanoids growing? | 13:20 |
| delinquentme | Lemminkainen, market demand for a single line chemical is blah | 13:23 |
| delinquentme | theres a related operation that someone else is doing but eh. | 13:24 |
| Lemminkainen | so what's the last bio project you've finished? | 13:25 |
| delinquentme | Lemminkainen, everyone | 13:36 |
| delinquentme | Lemminkainen, I know what you're getting at -- but dont you have a startup to run? | 13:36 |
| Lemminkainen | I'm simply unwilling to help point you in the right direction on a new project when you don't have results from your efforts on anything you've previously been excited about | 13:48 |
| Lemminkainen | if you do have results, let me know, I'd love to know that something has come of your excitement | 13:49 |
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| kanzure | hmmm http://svnbook.red-bean.com/en/1.7/svn.advanced.vendorbr.html | 14:29 |
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| kanzure | "I remember a great story from Sandra Kurtzig's book "CEO: Building a $400 Million Company from the Ground Up". She demoed her package to her first customer. He was wowed and asked , "How much?" She was worried about overpricing, but she said "$50,000" anyway. And when he didn't blink, she added, "per module." And when he still didn't object, "per year."" | 17:50 |
| kanzure | well, was he even alive? | 17:50 |
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| paperbot | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/9dcb25ef3021560ecec080d3acb11910.txt | 19:22 |
| kanzure | what? | 19:23 |
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| kjskjskjs | heh | 19:25 |
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| justanotheruser | little did they know that paperbot was submitted that requuest over a year ago | 19:40 |
| kanzure | yep right after he applied for a diploma | 19:43 |
| justanotheruser | ... | 19:52 |
| justanotheruser | kanzure: are you in college technically? | 19:53 |
| kanzure | nope | 19:53 |
| justanotheruser | ok nvm | 19:53 |
| justanotheruser | I thought you were saying paperbot might be running on a branch that gets papers via your colleges access | 19:53 |
| kanzure | that would be independent of whether or not i am at college | 19:54 |
| kanzure | also, it wouldn't be a branch if that was the case | 19:54 |
| kanzure | i really, really promise there's no missing code in paperbot | 19:54 |
| kanzure | with the exception of nmz787's recent changes.... oops. i guess i can't claim that anymore. | 19:54 |
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| kanzure | boost-free version of bitcoind (not merged upstream yet) https://github.com/theuni/bitcoin/tree/libbitcoinconsensus | 20:48 |
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| justanotheruser | kanzure: seems dangerous | 21:15 |
| justanotheruser | I would be surprised if this gets merged | 21:15 |
| kanzure | he's going to be breaking it up | 21:17 |
| justanotheruser | ? | 21:17 |
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| kanzure | instead of merging the whole thing | 21:21 |
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| --- Log closed Wed Oct 15 00:00:11 2014 | ||
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